Beyond The Sprues

Current and Finished Projects => Profiles and Pixels => : apophenia January 13, 2012, 09:57:03 AM

: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 13, 2012, 09:57:03 AM
How do all! I tend to bash pixels from existing images (and I'll try to be diligent about crediting sources).

I like prototypes, one-offs and other odd-balls -- even for whifs. So, first up is our masthead Chimera in prototype form ...
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 13, 2012, 09:59:25 AM
Next up is an oldie, the first Canadian Forces Sukhoi CF-189 being escorting to CFB Bagotville by a CF-18M.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin January 13, 2012, 03:28:37 PM
Mate, you get a special commendation for doing the chimera prototype!

(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i101/paintballqmaster/smiley-thumbsup.jpg)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: lauhof52 January 13, 2012, 04:15:47 PM
Nice to have you here! Excellent chimera :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Empty Handed January 13, 2012, 08:42:39 PM
Good to see you here, Apophenia! Any chance of you reposting your AW Aries/Armadillo here?
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: upnorth January 13, 2012, 10:56:04 PM
Excellent!

Great to see your work again!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Doom! January 13, 2012, 11:27:44 PM
Nicely Done! :)
 
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: JP Vieira January 14, 2012, 02:15:39 AM
Those are great :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 14, 2012, 06:19:27 AM
Wow, great welcome. Cheers lads!

Any chance of you reposting your AW Aries/Armadillo here?

For sure EH -- including the Hyena testbed you recommended ... in your earlier incarnation  ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 14, 2012, 06:23:15 AM
BTW, the Armstrong-Whitworth backstory was predicated upon licencing PZL designs to make use of AW's metal construction experience. Here's the operational outcomes (for P.11/24 and a P.23 evolution).
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin January 14, 2012, 09:22:03 AM
Mmmm...I really like the P.23/AW123

...I also have a 1/48 P.24G in the stash already planned to be a RAF alternate to the Gloster Gladiator...
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Empty Handed January 14, 2012, 10:01:52 AM
Thanks! I'd forgotten about the Africanus. Beautiful work! Oh, & I obviously love the Hyena-equipped variants!  ;) 

May I ask where you got a side view of the Hyena from?
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 14, 2012, 12:24:16 PM
Thanks lads.

Greg: I wish now that I'd done a version of the Armadillo with underwing Vickers 40mm guns.

[Edit: Now I have ... http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=351.msg4596#msg4596 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=351.msg4596#msg4596) ]

EH: Yeah, I think I was out ona thin branch with the Africanus  ;)  I never did find a sideview of the Hyena. So, I had to (ick, ack!) paint one myself.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: jcf January 14, 2012, 03:26:56 PM
Do you have more views of Panther mailplane? A 3-view would be lovely.

 :icon_fsm: :icon_fsm:
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Brian da Basher January 14, 2012, 07:24:05 PM
It's great to see you posting, apophenia!

Oh and my what lovely spats you have!!!
 :-*
Brian da Basher
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Empty Handed January 14, 2012, 08:39:28 PM
I never did find a sideview of the Hyena. So, I had to (ick, ack!) paint one myself.

In that case, doubly well done! I've only seen a front-on and front-quarter view in the Armstrong Whitworth Putnam myself. The A.W. XVI is a little cracker!  :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Bladerunner January 15, 2012, 05:42:36 AM
Very nice, especially like the Chimera and the Sukhoi CF 189.  :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 15, 2012, 12:18:28 PM
Cheers Bladerunner. The CF-189 retouch was fun. I probably overdid the weathering on the CF-18 but wanted it to look suitably beat-up (don't want to outshine the new kid!).

Next up is an alternative-alternative take on Litvak's AltCan scenario. There's a backstory for the CX-112 but it's a bit too long for here.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 15, 2012, 12:29:52 PM
Do you have more views of Panther mailplane? A 3-view would be lovely.


Alas, I ditched the original sideview (there never was a 3-view). What I had in mind for the Panther was a re-engined prototype AW.123 with the rear cockpit smoothly faired over to become a mail compartment.

See below: http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=351.msg4597#msg4597 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=351.msg4597#msg4597)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: taiidantomcat January 16, 2012, 12:13:00 AM
Nice!  :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Empty Handed January 16, 2012, 01:58:42 AM
Brilliant Idea!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: JP Vieira January 16, 2012, 05:39:30 AM
Excellent ones
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: elmayerle January 16, 2012, 09:48:35 AM
Cheers Bladerunner. The CF-189 retouch was fun. I probably overdid the weathering on the CF-18 but wanted it to look suitably beat-up (don't want to outshine the new kid!).

Next up is an alternative-alternative take on Litvak's AltCan scenario. There's a backstory for the CX-112 but it's a bit too long for here.
That's gorgeous and it's got a great family resemblance to both the CF-100 and the C-102.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Litvyak January 16, 2012, 10:22:11 AM
That's gorgeous and it's got a great family resemblance to both the CF-100 and the C-102.

Doesn't it, though? The whole thing just screams "Avro". I love it.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Logan Hartke January 17, 2012, 01:45:28 AM
I love this thread.

Cheers,

Logan
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 17, 2012, 05:39:51 AM
That's gorgeous and it's got a great family resemblance to both the CF-100 and the C-102.

Thanks. I forgot to mention that the CX-112 used the canopy from the 'Clunk'. In the backstory, Avro is responding to a GoC dictat to focus on military projects. The C.102 engines were meant to be for the prototype only with twin Orenda turbofans planned for the production model.
: Big-Gun Armadillo
: apophenia January 17, 2012, 05:43:23 AM
It turns out that I didn't dump the Armstrong Whitworth original -- just bozoed the file names ;P

So, for Greg, here's an AW.24 Armadillo with twin Vickers 40mm S guns...
: Panther-Powered Mailplane
: apophenia January 17, 2012, 05:45:25 AM
... and full sideviews of that AW.123 mailplane (sorry Jon, still no 3-views)
: Jetliner and Cosmopolitan
: apophenia January 17, 2012, 06:19:28 AM
And here's another Avro Canada-related offering. In the backstory, the Jetliner prototype serves in the RCAF but, at the GoC's order, that airliner project is transferred to Canadair.

Canadair later evolves the C.102 airframe into a twin RR Dart transport called the Cosmopolitan.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: The Big Gimper January 17, 2012, 06:23:58 AM
Now we need a 1/72 C102 Jetliner to build all these beautiful birds.  :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Empty Handed January 17, 2012, 10:14:21 AM
Now we need a 1/72 C102 Jetliner to build all these beautiful birds.  :)

Indeed!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 18, 2012, 06:07:02 AM
Now we need a 1/72 C102 Jetliner to build all these beautiful birds.  :)

There was a rumour on IRSM site that Sharkit was going to produce a 1/72 Jetliner. No sign of it yet on Sharkit's website. Mind you, they've released a CL-84 in 1/72nd so hope springs!

Anyone know Renaud Mangallon? Maybe a nudge is required before Sharkit pups?  ;)
: Canadair-Douglas CC-233
: apophenia January 18, 2012, 06:11:58 AM
Next installment for the alternative AltCan: the Canadair-Douglas CC-233 Labrador.

With Douglas ending C-133B project, the time was right for a joint venture. A shortened C-133 fuselage was mated to CL-44 wings, tail, and Tyne turboprops. The RCAF used the CC-233 Labrador to shuttle NATO fighters to Europe.

Unfortunately for Douglas, the USAF didn't bite. Hopes had been pinned on riding on USAF CL-44 orders. When that [RW] MATS order fell through, so too did any chance of a USAF 'C-233'.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: JoseFern January 18, 2012, 08:30:14 AM
Lovely AW.123 mailplanes. :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 18, 2012, 12:20:54 PM
One for Tophe  ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: elmayerle January 18, 2012, 12:56:23 PM
One for Tophe  ;)
Very nice blend of Noratlas and AT3.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: upnorth January 18, 2012, 02:56:24 PM
Those Labradors are great!

Even better is that you made one based at Namao, I grew up watching Hercules from there pass over town all the time.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: jcf January 18, 2012, 03:19:20 PM
Re: the AW 123, I gather that your starting point was the P.23,
and were you thinking increased span or the same as the P.23?

(http://themekgpproject.com/_posted_files_/P-images/karas_2_3v.jpg)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Flitzer January 18, 2012, 04:36:56 PM
Lovely, just lovely work as usual.

P
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin January 18, 2012, 05:13:25 PM
Love your recent work.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: The Big Gimper January 18, 2012, 07:21:49 PM
Re: CC-233 Labrador: Nice doggy.  :)

What would a C-124 Landseer look like?  ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 19, 2012, 06:13:08 AM
Cheers chaps -- much appreciated!

Upnorth: more Namao-based transports to come ...

Jon: Yes, the P.23 was my starting point for the AW.123. For the prototype, the rear fuselage and tailplane are almost identical to the Karas'. So too are the outer wing panels. The centre section would be widened slightly to take the twin engines and 'holed' to accommodate the retracted wheels.

TBG: The Landseer would, of course, be an air-sea rescue type painted in a distinctive black and white scheme. Popular with pilots (and the rescued) but less so with ground crews who had to mop up POL spills (aka Landseer 'slobber').
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 19, 2012, 06:16:17 AM
'North: as promised, here's some more Namao-based heavies.

The Keewatin filled a gap between tactical and strategic transport for the RCAF. Another windy backstory but, long story/shorter: CC-152A is a Kawasaki C-1 outfitted for the RCAF by Canadair. The CC-152B was a trials conversion to BE.53 Pegasus (Bristol Aero Engines Canada). The production STOL variant was the CC-152C.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Empty Handed January 19, 2012, 09:06:28 AM
Interesting transports!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 20, 2012, 09:52:13 AM
Thanks EH. And now for something a little more bellicose -- the Avro Belenus bomber.

Belenus ('brilliant'), BTW, was the celtic Sun-God. Seemed to fit for a nuclear-armed bomber.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: The Big Gimper January 20, 2012, 11:06:18 AM
Brilliant!!!  :)

I am quite sure the RCAF flew these. Do you have a picture of these one bad boys in 428 SQN markings?
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: upnorth January 20, 2012, 02:05:11 PM
Brilliant!!!  :)

I am quite sure the RCAF flew these. Do you have a picture of these one bad boys in 428 SQN markings?

Nooooo!  408 Sqn.  ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Flitzer January 20, 2012, 07:11:54 PM
Thanks EH. And now for something a little more bellicose -- the Avro Belenus bomber.

Belenus ('brilliant'), BTW, was the celtic Sun-God. Seemed to fit for a nuclear-armed bomber.
Agree 100%.
Stunning concept.

P
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: The Big Gimper January 20, 2012, 08:29:59 PM
Brilliant!!!  :)

I am quite sure the RCAF flew these. Do you have a picture of these one bad boys in 428 SQN markings?

Nooooo!  408 Sqn.  ;)

Goose over Ghost? No way!!!  ;D
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin January 21, 2012, 03:57:17 AM
Great work!  One could probably model that in plastic too!
: RCAF Avro Belenus
: apophenia January 21, 2012, 12:18:35 PM
Thanks Greg. Reshaping the leading edge/original intakes would the tricky bit, I'd think.

RCAF Belenus: I've dodged the 408/428 bun-fight (since everyone will remember that RCAF Belenus on Black Bucks didn't carry unit markings or even serials).

So here she is: a 4x8 Sqn Belenus inbound to Port Stanley. Just spotted by an Argie patrol boat, the FE is launching flares while the pilots start jinking...
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin January 21, 2012, 12:22:09 PM
Tricky but not impossible.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Logan Hartke January 21, 2012, 12:33:17 PM
Pretty...

Cheers,

Logan
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Brian da Basher January 21, 2012, 09:46:16 PM
Your Belenus is fantastic, Apophenia! I really like the idea of the RCAF participating in the Falklands conflict. Adds another dimension to the story.

Brian da Basher
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 22, 2012, 12:06:46 PM
Thanks lads. One puzzle on the Belenus is where to put the air brakes. I'm guessing outboard from the Vulcan position (which would be directly in front of the Belenus' intakes).

Tricky but not impossible.
Nope, PSR, repeat, PSR, repeat ...  ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 22, 2012, 12:08:14 PM
Just goofing around with this one -- I have a soft spot for the Brewster Buffalo (and similar mutts).
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Logan Hartke January 23, 2012, 01:27:01 AM
Ah, very neat.  Looks somewhat like an overweight P-64.

Cheers,

Logan
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe January 23, 2012, 01:38:05 AM
Belated congratulations for the Chimera. And new congratulations for the beautiful Belenus. :)
: Re: RCAF Avro Belenus
: The Big Gimper January 23, 2012, 02:16:15 AM
Thanks Greg. Reshaping the leading edge/original intakes would the tricky bit, I'd think.

RCAF Belenus: I've dodged the 408/428 bun-fight (since everyone will remember that RCAF Belenus on Black Bucks didn't carry unit markings or even serials).

So here she is: a 4x8 Sqn Belenus inbound to Port Stanley. Just spotted by an Argie patrol boat, the FE is launching flares while the pilots start jinking...


That's cheating. No Squadron markings.  ;D

Nice job on the BB profile.

BTW there is book written about the first BB mission, pilot, Martin Whithers: Vulcan 607: http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2006/may/20/featuresreviews.guardianreview5 (http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2006/may/20/featuresreviews.guardianreview5)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: upnorth January 23, 2012, 02:20:36 AM
Thanks lads. One puzzle on the Belenus is where to put the air brakes. I'm guessing outboard from the Vulcan position (which would be directly in front of the Belenus' intakes).


How about split aileron arrangement?

(http://www.wallpaperpimper.com/wallpaper/Military/A6_Intruder/A6-Intruder-3-BK420SUXGH-1024x768.jpg)
net photo

(http://image60.webshots.com/760/0/35/29/2677035290021366276ywNyBf_ph.jpg)
net photo

I believe the B-2 bomber has it as well.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: elmayerle January 23, 2012, 04:40:50 AM
Thanks lads. One puzzle on the Belenus is where to put the air brakes. I'm guessing outboard from the Vulcan position (which would be directly in front of the Belenus' intakes).


How about split aileron arrangement?

([url]http://www.wallpaperpimper.com/wallpaper/Military/A6_Intruder/A6-Intruder-3-BK420SUXGH-1024x768.jpg[/url])
net photo

I believe the B-2 bomber has it as well.


It does.  Perhaps the Belenus could also have airbrakes on the top and bottom of the fuselage?
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 24, 2012, 08:23:42 AM
...  Perhaps the Belenus could also have airbrakes on the top and bottom of the fuselage?

Thanks Evan. That'd work but I decided to go with Upnorth's split-ailerons only (although it's hard to tell!)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 24, 2012, 08:27:46 AM
Another oldie ... French-licenced Defiants. Hey, if Boulton Paul could licence the SAMM turret, why couldn't SAMM licence the Defiant  ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin January 24, 2012, 03:47:17 PM
Sweet! :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Empty Handed January 24, 2012, 08:01:22 PM
Nice Defiants!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 25, 2012, 08:31:27 AM
Nice Defiants!

Thank EH. [Edit: here's a pair of desert Defiants ... can ya tell I have a thing about S-Guns?]
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin January 26, 2012, 06:02:06 AM
Should be writable again now - though do heed Jon's warning here (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=341.msg6024#new).
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 26, 2012, 07:17:54 AM
Thank Greg, will do. Now, more on that Armstrong-Whitworth Pulaski theme.

The AW.124K was the Kestrel-powered back-up for the Hyena-powered AW.24M/AW.124. Basic armament consisted of twin .303" machineguns synchronised to fire through the propeller disc with the possibility of another four .303"s in the wings. An unbuilt option was the AW.124HS powered by an Hispano-Suiza 12X with a 20mm moteur-canon plus wing guns.

The AW.224 Aries II Export Fighter was the prototype AW.124 re-engined with an AS Panther air-cooled radial. No series orders followed but this aircraft served with the air force of the 'Kwangsi Clique' until written-off in a wheels-up accident in late 1934.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin January 26, 2012, 07:19:05 AM
Mmmm....
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: sotoolslinger January 26, 2012, 11:35:23 AM
Like the heck out of your last offerings :) :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Empty Handed January 26, 2012, 09:10:42 PM
Nice Defiantviks!

As for your latest AWs, great designs but I thought Kwangsi AF was independent and used the triangular markings for a bit after 1934? Certainly by '36/37 they were wearing Canton markings. I ask because I intend to put some of those triangular markings on a couple of mid-30s projects of my own.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: McGreig January 27, 2012, 01:56:50 AM
Love the French Defiants - another one for the why-didn't-I-think-of-that list.

I thought Kwangsi AF was independent and used the triangular markings for a bit after 1934?

Lennart Andersson's “A History of Chinese Aviation” has a section on the Kwangsi Air Force and most of the photos do show aircraft prior to 1937 with a large triangular marking.

The triangle appears to have been white with a thick black border but on some aircraft with dark coloured fuselages (Wapiti, AW-16, Avro 637) the triangle colours are reversed and there are also some machines which appear to have a black-outlined white disc instead of a triangle. So no RLM or Air Ministry civil servant types in Kwangsi then - - -

Also, most photos show only the fuselage – the only photo giving a clear view of the wings is of a crashed Avro 631 which has triangles on its fuselage, a triangle on its port wing upper-surface and a more conventional Chinese star on a red-outlined blue disc (as in Apophenia's AW profile) on its starboard wing!?!?!?

: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Empty Handed January 27, 2012, 03:22:30 AM
^ Yes I have that book. I think the confusion lays in Kwangsi's state of only "semi-independence". I think that crashed Avro was just hedging bets as to who allegiance had to be sworn to that week.  ;)

Regardless, Kwangsi is a great way of getting 30's British stuff in colours other than the usual suspects.  :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Brian da Basher January 27, 2012, 08:08:49 AM
I really like your AW Aries and I think the Kwangsi version could fool many!

Super work, Apophenia!

Brian da Basher
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Geoff January 28, 2012, 03:46:54 AM
Nice Defiants!

Thank EH. [Edit: here's a pair of desert Defiants ... can ya tell I have a thing about S-Guns?]

These two I really like!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 28, 2012, 10:52:58 AM
I find the whole subject of Kwangsi markings is really convoluted. Some aircraft showed a mix of Kwangsi and Cantonese-style red-outlined KMT stars. Then there's tail stars or rudder striping of varying styles.

One source claims that the Triangle replaced the KMT star. Others say the reverse. That seems more likely but the Kwangsi AF wasn't amalgamated with Nationalist forces until July 1937. So did they amalgamate with the Cantonese AF before the main KMT force? My head's spinning ...
: A Herculean Chinook?
: apophenia January 28, 2012, 10:54:23 AM
Another oldie: a tandem rotor Hercules derivative.
: Re: A Herculean Chinook?
: elmayerle January 28, 2012, 12:55:30 PM
Another oldie: a tandem rotor Hercules derivative.
Makes as much sense as the Mil Mi-12 though I prefer some of the more recent gyrodyne Hercules derivative.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin January 29, 2012, 02:14:22 AM
I seem to recall there being a real proposal along these lines.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: elmayerle January 29, 2012, 02:33:51 AM
I seem to recall there being a real proposal along these lines.
Which lines?  The gyrodyne Hercules proposal is fairly recent.  A Hercules fuselage was mooted for the proposed technology demonstrator for the Quad Tilt Rotor (kinda want to see that done with an AN-12 fuselage to give a tail gun) but I don't remember seeing this particular twin-rotor variant of the Hercules fuselage.  OTOH, I can see such an aircraft using the rotors from the CH-53E to deal with all the power there.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin January 29, 2012, 03:18:44 AM
I was talking about apophenia's twin-rotor variant of the Hercules.  I will try to dig up the drawing in question.

Regards,

Greg
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin January 29, 2012, 04:22:01 AM
From Scott Lowther's Blog and supposedly circa 1963:

(http://up-ship.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/c130-chopper.jpg)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: sotoolslinger January 29, 2012, 07:10:27 AM
Diggin on the Heli Herc :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 29, 2012, 07:14:13 AM
Greg: Yes, that 1963 Lockheed-California study was my jumping off point. But I was going for a more conventional (albeit winged), Chinook-style tandem rotor rather than a stop rotor type.

Evan: I liked those GBA GyroLifter concepts as well. And they'd certainly be faster than an overgrown Chinook!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 29, 2012, 07:16:20 AM
Another Hercules oldie ... (mentioned as a concept elsewhere on Beyond the Sprues).
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin January 29, 2012, 07:18:49 AM
Ah yes.  A quick check of the power offerings of the engines:

C-130H:
4 x Allison T56-A-15 turboprops, 4,300 bhp (3,210 kW) each = total of 6240 kW per wing;

C-130J
4× Rolls-Royce AE 2100D3 turboprops, 4,637 shp (3,458 kW) each = 6916 kW per wing;

Speculative C-130TP400 twin:
2 x EuroProp International TP400-D6 turboprop, 8,250 kW (11,000 hp) each = 8250 kW per wing!

Certainly is appealing.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 29, 2012, 07:26:52 AM
Maybe Lockheed Martin should add a twin TP400 option to their 'C-130XL' concept?  ;)
: Canard Hellcat
: apophenia January 29, 2012, 07:37:15 AM
A bit of silliness (inspired by Tophe) ...
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: elmayerle January 29, 2012, 07:49:19 AM
I wonder if those were driven rotors or if it was a twin-rotor autogyro?  Either way, 'twould make a fascinating model and the Soviet equivalent, made from an AN-12 would be fascinating.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 29, 2012, 11:16:57 AM
Evan: There's a very short piece in Flight for 28 Feb 1963
http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1963/1963%20-%200295.html?search=Lockheed%20California (http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1963/1963%20-%200295.html?search=Lockheed%20California)

Flight described the Lockheed-California concept as a "Hybrid Helicopter" capable of V/STOL take-off. That suggests powered rotors but isn't really conclusive.

The image came from the Lockheed-California Newsbureau which described the design (rather redundantly) as a "Hybrid Heli-Plane", saying that this "cargo carrier ... would be able to take off and land helicopter-style." Again, not really conclusive.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: elmayerle January 29, 2012, 12:25:56 PM
Evan: There's a very short piece in Flight for 28 Feb 1963
[url]http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1963/1963%20-%200295.html?search=Lockheed%20California[/url] ([url]http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1963/1963%20-%200295.html?search=Lockheed%20California[/url])

Flight described the Lockheed-California concept as a "Hybrid Helicopter" capable of V/STOL take-off. That suggests powered rotors but isn't really conclusive.

The image came from the Lockheed-California Newsbureau which described the design (rather redundantly) as a "Hybrid Heli-Plane", saying that this "cargo carrier ... would be able to take off and land helicopter-style." Again, not really conclusive.

No, not conclusive at all and there are elements in that illustration that don't bear out.  Either those two engines are much larger than the T56 or there're other engines somewhere if those rotors are powered.  Too, the gearing,driveshafts, and cross-shafting using just those engines looks to be "interesting" and trouble prone.  I'd be more inclined to believe in powered rotors if there were other engines shown (say, at the base of the rear pylon ala' CH-46 and CH-47.  I think I'd go for the more recently proposed gyroplane conversion for a vstol Hercules unless you want to revisit the 4xPegasus one Lockheed-Georgia showed back in 1972.
: Tilt Wing Hercules
: apophenia January 30, 2012, 10:41:33 AM
Or we just dump those pesky rotors altogether  >:D
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: elmayerle January 30, 2012, 11:00:15 AM
I like that, though I think the hinge point needs to be farther forward (check out the XC-142, CL-84, and X-18).
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 31, 2012, 07:04:00 AM
Cheers José!

Evan: I put the hinge point just in front of the rear spar like the CL-84 (although it was actually the CL-246 that I had in mind). Or do I have the rear spar for the C-130 in the wrong spot?
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: elmayerle January 31, 2012, 08:56:01 AM
You may well have it right, I just thought the rear of the wing dropped farther down on the fuselage.  I'm pretty sure the XC-142 wing was hinged farther forward.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 31, 2012, 10:28:57 AM
Evan: not sure about the hinge point on the XC-142. On the CL-89 the wing drops down further. But, by comparison, the Dynavert had really deep-chord flaps/ailerons compared with the Hercules.

If this was for real, probably better all around to design a new wing for the C-130 with forward slats, etc.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia February 03, 2012, 06:54:18 AM
Another oldie ... this is the first prototype CU-100 drone (a conversion of the Avro Canada CF-100).
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Brian da Basher February 03, 2012, 08:17:58 AM
That's a very cool concept, Apophenia and you could fool a lot of people with such realistic rendering!

Brian da Basher
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia February 03, 2012, 10:55:54 AM
Thanks Brian. BTW, the new engines were meant to be Rolls-Royce BR710 (which are slightly smaller diameter than the original Orendas.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: finsrin February 03, 2012, 12:43:34 PM
Sent the C-130 tilt wing picture to a young guy I know who works at Lockheed.  Asked if he has done work on this.  Said - "Nope, but it would be fun if I did!"
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia February 07, 2012, 12:07:33 PM
Cheers Bill -- that is too cool!

Here's another oldie. There was a RW proposal for a twin-fan BAe 146 ... not sure about a swing-tail  ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: JP Vieira February 07, 2012, 07:18:32 PM
Very interesting
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia February 08, 2012, 05:31:28 AM
Thanks JP. For most military applications, a rear ramp works better. But, for straight palletized cargo work, it's hard to beat the simplicity of the old Canadair CL-44 swing-tail  ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia February 09, 2012, 11:19:09 AM
Going back to Litvak's AltCan concept, here's some armour themes -- those are 'ground targets' to you aviation-only types  ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia February 10, 2012, 07:49:57 AM
Back to airborne targeters ... this is the CA-142 Gonzo Gunship  ;)
: Re: Canard Hellcat
: Tophe February 10, 2012, 12:22:30 PM
A bit of silliness (inspired by Tophe) ...
:-* Congratulations! This is better than I could have done myself!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin February 11, 2012, 03:08:59 AM
Back to airborne targeters ... this is the CA-142 Gonzo Gunship  ;)

Appropriate name!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: JP Vieira February 11, 2012, 03:36:30 AM
Like the Gonzo
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: LemonJello February 11, 2012, 10:38:37 PM
([url]http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=351.0;attach=1460;image[/url])
Missed this one ... I love what you did with the clunk!  :-*

That's a beauty! Put a V-tail on her and I'd have to start searching for kits/parts to make one.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe February 11, 2012, 11:04:46 PM
Dear Apophenia,
Your CU-100 had a shadow on the port wing root, maybe for a port turbojet, but is this CU-100A below an asymmetric aircraft? asymmetric drone, what an oddity!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v670/Tophe2712/cu-100A.jpg)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Silver Fox February 12, 2012, 08:27:15 AM
Is that 40mm sticking out the aft door of the Gonzo Gunship one of the oft-travelled Boffins? You know, the ones from the carriers that went on to airfield defence in Germany and then to the Kingston class?  ;)

I wonder what it would look like in Transport Canada Surveillance markings?  >:D

Well Done!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: The Big Gimper February 12, 2012, 11:09:53 AM
Back to airborne targeters ... this is the CA-142 Gonzo Gunship  ;)

I was going to make a comment about the little known 1998 Beaver, Otter, Moose and Elk (BOME) pronounced Boom, uprising that almost over threw the Canadian Gov't if were not for Gonzo taking care of the ring leaders, Castor canadensis. With few well placed rounds of the 40MM cannon into the secret rebel HQ which was later revealed to be an unassuming Beaver Lodge located in Algonquin Park on the Lake of Two Rivers, just a few hours away from Ottawa. It was taking place right under our noses. Close call folks.

Gonzo saved the day.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia February 12, 2012, 12:42:37 PM
Thanks guys!

I was going to make a comment about the little known 1998 Beaver, Otter, Moose and Elk (BOME) pronounced Boom, uprising that almost over threw the Canadian Gov't if were not for Gonzo taking care of the ring leaders, Castor canadensis. With few well placed rounds of the 40MM cannon into the secret rebel HQ which was later revealed to be an unassuming Beaver Lodge located in Algonquin Park on the Lake of Two Rivers, just a few hours away from Ottawa. It was taking place right under our noses. Close call folks.

Gonzo saved the day.

He he. A few well-placed Bofors rounds -- just what Canadian politcs has been missing  ;D

Silver Fox: No point wasting those L/60s. 'Boffin' to the rescue once again  ;)
: Austria Divided Armour
: apophenia February 13, 2012, 11:24:23 AM
A pair of armoured vehicles from Upnorth's Austria storyline. Both are air defence derivatives of the Canaan IFV.
http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=358.msg8457#msg8457 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=358.msg8457#msg8457)

Left: CCV ADATS (aka Medium Armoured Mobile Air Defence Vehicle) of 119 Bty, Royal Canadian Artillery. CFB Gagetown, May 1994.

Right:
Canaan Mk.VI (Oto Melara SIDAM 25 turret) refurbished and upgraded for an unannounced export customer. On display (alongside Canaan Otomatic prototype in similar scheme) at Eurosatory 2006.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: upnorth February 13, 2012, 02:35:46 PM
Those AD Canaans are great!

The ADATS turret looks really good on it.
: Re: Austria Divided Armour
: M.A.D February 13, 2012, 07:02:33 PM
A pair of armoured vehicles from Upnorth's Austria storyline. Both are air defence derivatives of the Canaan IFV.
[url]http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=358.msg8457#msg8457[/url] ([url]http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=358.msg8457#msg8457[/url])

Left: CCV ADATS (aka Medium Armoured Mobile Air Defence Vehicle) of 119 Bty, Royal Canadian Artillery. CFB Gagetown, May 1994.

Right:
Canaan Mk.VI (Oto Melara SIDAM 25 turret) refurbished and upgraded for an unannounced export customer. On display (alongside Canaan Otomatic prototype in similar scheme) at Eurosatory 2006.


Hey great work apophenia - the off-the-shelf systems adaptation I both like and appreciate! Especially with the fact that the Canadians, like my army lack any sensible or effective anti aircraft guns at all let alone SPAAG!!

Any chance of you incorporate a Krauss-Maffei Wildcat 30mm SPAAG turret, or the South Korean K-30 Biho (Flying Tiger) SPAAG turret? Which I believe was itself an adaptation of the Wildcat system

M.A.D
   
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: JP Vieira February 13, 2012, 09:49:17 PM
Great work!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin February 14, 2012, 02:23:47 AM
The Canaan Mk.VI looks evil! >:D
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia February 15, 2012, 07:35:22 AM
Thanks guys. Here's some more Canaan IFV derivatives -- this time, direct-fire support variants.

Left: An ex-Austrian Jagdpanzer Kürassier in Slovenian colours. Armed with PaK 90s in FL-11 turrets, this vehicle was known locally as the SPT (Samovozni Protitankovski Top). In Slovene service, the SPT acted as a Reserves unit tank destroyer backing up the frontline T-55s.

This SPT's indivual vehicle number is obscured by camo nets and somewhat beat-up recognition tapes (applied to front and rear corners) need replacing.

Right: Another SDS vehicle in promotional colours. The Negev FSV sprang from SDS' post Cold War T-54/55 update program. With a brisk market for rebuilt T-55s, the SDS back lot filled up with unwanted Soviet turrets and D-10 guns. As an export gambit, the T-55 turrets were fitted to surplus North Sinai Canaan Mk.I hulls.

This example illustrates the penultimate Negev offering complete with MEXAS armour panels and even turret-mounted Strela-10 missiles for defence from low-flying aircraft. The only option missing was a 105mm L7 main gun. Most Negev customers went for the plain-Jane model. The D-10 was adequate for the fire support role as was the original Canaan armour plate.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Brian da Basher February 15, 2012, 08:26:32 AM
Great stuff, apophenia! I sure wouldn't want to meet either of those in a dark alley!

Brian da Basher
: Re: Austria Divided Armour
: apophenia February 15, 2012, 12:03:17 PM
Cheers Brian. The goal is to make 'em realistic (even flawed) but it's best if they look tough too  ;)

Any chance of you incorporate a Krauss-Maffei Wildcat 30mm SPAAG turret, or the South Korean K-30 Biho (Flying Tiger) SPAAG turret? Which I believe was itself an adaptation of the Wildcat system

Here ya go ...

A joint project by SDS and South Korean Doosan DST (formerly Daewoo). The SK30 Bi Ho/Sharav mounts Doosan's AD turret on the Canaan hulls as an alternative to the Doosan K21 IFV. This combination was attractive to existing Canaan users -- especially those which had chosen 30mm main guns for their IFVs.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: upnorth February 15, 2012, 02:36:04 PM
Hmmmm.....

Those are looking very sharp indeed.  My Canaan is turning into a very adaptable beast indeed.

Thanks for bringing some more life to the idea! :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia February 17, 2012, 09:08:05 AM
upnorth: Canaan is an adaptable beast indeed. Here's the last for a bit (gotta get on with the Group Build stuff!) ...
_______________________

SNS/Enasa-Pegaso Cortés

In 1996, SNS entered into an agreement with Enasa SA to produce Canaan derivatives in Spain. Under this agreement, SNS would provide hull components which would integrate with powertrains and locally-produced turret systems at the Enasa-Pegaso facility in Barcelona. This resulted in a distinct Spanish Canaan family which Enasa-Pegaso had distribution rights throughout Iberia and Latin America.

Vehículo Combate Cortés Family

The Spanish Canaan was marketed as the Cortés and, turrets aside, differed from the North Sinai original in having MAN diesels (MAN and Daimler-Benz having bought Enasa back in 1990). The first Cortés models were powered by 820 hp MAN D2840 V10s. Beginning in 1998, the V10 was eclipsed by the lighter, more compact 750 hp MAN D28 V8 diesel.

Turret supply for Cortés variants was diverse. The original Canaan OTO Melara turret was available for export versions but, for its IFV, Spain's Ejército de Tierra chose a local design by Santa Bárbara Sistemas. This vehicle entered Spanish service as the VCI (Vehículo Combate Infantería) and was marketed abroad as the Guepardo VCI-30. SDS knew this type as the Canaan IFV 30E.

Cortés Direct-Fire-Support Variants

An unusual Cortés variant was the fire-support VADFI (Vehículo del Apoyo Directa de Fuego de la Infantería). This heavy IFV mounted a German Thyssen-Henschel Begleitpanzer turret armed with the 57mm Bofors gun and a TOW missile launcher. Cortés VAMF was marketed abroad as the Puma ADF-57 (with optional HOT launcher). SDS knew this type as the Canaan FSV 57E.

The Cortés VADFI/Puma ADF-57 operated as both infantry fire-support and as anti-recce vehicle platforms. Not illustrated is the bigger-gunned Cortés variant which could rightly be regarded as a medium tank.

The Cortés VAMF (Vehículo del Apoyo Móvil de Fuego) was fitted with Thyssen-Henschel's TH 301 turret armed with a Rheinmetall 105mm Rh 105-30 main gun. Enasa-Pegaso marketed the Cortés VAMF abroad as the León AMF. SDS knew this type as the Canaan FSV 105E.

Enasa-Pegaso designed two other big-gunned Cortés variants that failed to find customers. The Tigre AMF was similar to the León/Cortés VAMF but fitted with the OTO Melara Hitfact turret and armed with low-pressure 105mm or 120mm main gun. A more radical departure from the Canaan parentage was the Oso VCA (Vehículo de Combate de Artillería) project.

The Oso VCA was to be an SP howitzer derivative of the Cortés. Otobreda's 155mm Palmaria turret was to be mounted on a lengthened Cortés chassis (returning to the Leopard MBT's seven roadwheels per side). A 900hp MAN V10 diesel would have powered the Oso VCA (aka Canaan SPH 155E). Neither the Ejército nor potential export customers took up the Oso VCA.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: upnorth February 17, 2012, 02:22:48 PM
Great stuff! Can't wait for more when you get time. :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Rafael February 17, 2012, 09:31:15 PM
Great stuff! Can't wait for more when you get time. :)

Seconded!

That is a great family of tracked vehicles, in fact, you've given me an idea, and I have an old ROCO miniatures gepard spaag just waiting to be molded and produced in these guises
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: upnorth February 18, 2012, 03:16:26 AM

That is a great family of tracked vehicles, in fact, you've given me an idea, and I have an old ROCO miniatures gepard spaag just waiting to be molded and produced in these guises

Yes, Apophenia is doing a great job with my Canaan. I wouldn't have imagined most of the spin offs he's posting here.

I'd love to see what you do with your Roco tank.

I recently bought a Revell 1/72 Leopard 2A4 to make a Canaan VI from.

: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia February 18, 2012, 06:01:53 AM
Ack  :o  I mounted the wrong version of the Cortés variants! So, here's the right one ...  :-[
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Brian da Basher February 18, 2012, 07:30:31 AM
Even though I prefer Spanish Republican markings, I'd make an exception for your awesome Cortés, apophenia! You have a real gift for profiles!

Brian da Basher
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia February 19, 2012, 08:01:35 AM
Cheers Brian. Here's an oldie more to your tastes ... ˇViva la República!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: ChernayaAkula February 19, 2012, 09:39:48 AM
^ Oh, that one's subtle. Put it on a table between other Spanish Civil War stuff and no one will be any the wiser.

Love the Canaans! Awesome beasts!  >:D
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia February 20, 2012, 12:19:52 PM
Thanks Moritz. That one was part of a series of vehicles and aircraft of a Republican faction that fought on in North Africa on the Allied side in World War II.

For my take on the CC-138C Guardian in Silver Fox's "Malignent Mustelid" thread, see:

http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=884.msg9535#msg9535 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=884.msg9535#msg9535)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: abtex February 20, 2012, 02:18:41 PM
Nice work. :)

What does the Cortés variants turrets on sdkfz chassic look like. Longer body hanging beyond wheel well. Maybe without the rivits and Birdcage 'armor' added.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Brian da Basher February 20, 2012, 05:26:54 PM
Cheers Brian. Here's an oldie more to your tastes ... ˇViva la República!

Ahh it warms my heart to see those Republican markings and my old friend Durruti mentioned again! Viva la Quinte Brigada!

Brian da Basher
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia February 21, 2012, 10:39:55 AM
Oh, who can resist ... here's another oldie for ya, BdB  ;)
ˇViva la Columna Durruti!  ˇViva la Federación Anarquista Ibérica!

abtex: Hmmm, a Republican Cortés ...  ;D
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Brian da Basher February 22, 2012, 07:27:34 AM
Mmmm these just keep getting better and better, apophenia!

I wonder if the Abraham Lincoln Brigade is in your alternate Spanish Civil War as well?

I take it this is after la Columna Durruti took Melilla?

ˇMás excelente!

Brian da Basher
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia February 22, 2012, 11:46:16 AM
Brian: A potted history ... Like other soldiers of las Brigadas Internacionales, members of the Abraham Lincoln Battalion began to leave Spain in October 1938. With Franco's victory, a Mexico-based Republican government in exile was established. After September 1939, efforts were made to re-join the armed struggle against Fascism but France and Britain showed little interest. It was the US entry into the War that changed Republican fortunes.

The Allied powers agreed that a Spanish Republican force could be formed by combining the Spanish contingents already established in Mexico and the Soviet Union. Once joined, this Nuevo Ejército Republicano force took part in Operation Torch, the Allied invasion of North Africa.

Under the agreement with the Allies, nationals from the US, British Commonwealth, or Soviet Union could not join the NER. But, from inception, I Brigada Mixta del NER had international brigade units. These were drawn mostly from Latin America but also from refugees from the Fascist states of Europe -- primarily Germans and Italians but also other Europeans.

My illustrations all emphasizing the gleaned origins of NER equipment. But that was true of recruiting in North Africa as well. The new Brigadas Internacionales were swollen by fresh recruits taken from the captive Vichy Légion étrangčre. Persistant rumors suggested that former members of the Lincoln-Washington Battalion were among those recruits.  ;)

Not all of the Morocco and Algeria stockade recruits were foreigners. One very willing  recruit was Cipriano Mera who had joined the Légion étrangčre from an Oran prison in 1940. The former chief of the Republican 14th Division, Lt-Col Mera became the most celebrated commanders of the NER's Columna Anarquista ... including the famous 21Ş Batallón de Infantería Mecanizada ('Durruti').
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Brian da Basher February 22, 2012, 05:22:52 PM
ˇFantástico!

Your alternate history, especially the bit about Operation Torch, makes much more sense than anything my fevered imagination could come up with, apophenia!

ˇViva la Brigada Mixta del NER!

Brian da Basher
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: JP Vieira February 22, 2012, 08:01:14 PM
Great tank! T(h)ank you ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia February 23, 2012, 11:43:21 AM
Thanks lads.

Brian: The original concept came from Arc3371 on 'that other site'. It was called Spanish Civil War - The Rematch. I took the timeline to the point of throwing the Fachas out of Africa. Arc' was going to handle the Reconquista but I think the writing stalled.

In my timeline/scenario, the NER takes part in Sicily but not Italy proper. After that, the NER becomes a North African occupation/security force. That allows them to glean Axis kit from Algerian, Tunisian, and Libyan dumps and build up their fighting strength. With that, the NER liberates Ifni, Sáhara Espańol, the Canaries, and the Protectorado Espańol de Marruecos.

The Spanish Republican goverment-in-exile (NGREE, the Nuevo Gobierno Republicano Espańol en el Exilio) also sued for the release of Abd-el-Krim from French incarceration on Réunion. The Spanish Saharan province of Saguia el-Hamra would become the second Tagduda n Arif (Rif Republic) later encouraged to expand into Río de Oro, Ifni, and Morocco (where it met stiff post-War French colonial opposition).

I had a whole series of Nuevo Ejército Republicano - Cuerpo Aéreo (NERCA) Bf-109s but I think I dumped most of them. Here's a survivor - one NERCA 'G-2 and one Ejército del Aire version.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin February 23, 2012, 04:28:01 PM
They look great.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: AXOR February 23, 2012, 07:12:02 PM
Yes,me likey !
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Brian da Basher February 24, 2012, 03:54:34 AM
Gracias for more on the alt. history and for those two very excellent 109s, apophenia! I'm very impressed by your attention to detail, especially the under-wing USAAF marking and the cool little "anti-fascista" emblem on the nose which reminds me of a very well-known Republican poster. Outstanding!

Brian da Basher
: EdA Messerschmitts
: apophenia February 24, 2012, 08:31:25 AM
Thanks guys! Brian: those under-wing USAAF roundels were used on all NERCA aircraft in North Africa. Handy when you're flying Messerschmitts above Allied gunners :)

Here's another pair of 109s -- later-model 'bad guys'
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: upnorth February 24, 2012, 05:04:09 PM
Great Spanish stuff!

I particularly like that last pair of 109s
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Brian da Basher February 25, 2012, 09:03:48 AM
Love that top Nationalist 109, apophenia! Gotta admit that scheme is very striking!

Brian da Basher

P.S. Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia February 25, 2012, 12:13:34 PM
Thanks 'north: Here's some 109s from another AltHist scenario, this time an independant German East Africa established during WWII.

P.S. Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead.


 ;D  But where's Chevy Chase with the day count!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: JP Vieira February 25, 2012, 07:15:17 PM
Love these last fighters: congrats
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Empty Handed February 27, 2012, 03:04:28 AM
Great 109s!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: jorel62 February 27, 2012, 03:10:12 AM
Outstanding........
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Maverick February 27, 2012, 09:09:08 AM
Some really unique concepts there.

Regards,

John
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia February 27, 2012, 10:28:29 AM
Thanks guys. Here's the next in that series of Ost Afrika fighters:

BTW, those '109s borrowed heavily from Helmut Schmidt's wonderful 'flying ART' profiles. If you haven't heard of this guy yet, check out his blog now! Amazing stuff ...

Schmidt's posts are mostly historical '109s but a few other types too. And one or two whifs tucked in there as well (love his contra-rotating prop '109 racer!): http://flyingart.twoday.net/ (http://flyingart.twoday.net/)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia February 28, 2012, 05:07:11 AM
A few more Ost Afrika fighters. These are Spanish imports.

The first HA.1112, 'Zebu', has an arid scheme for the Ost Afrikan push into Somalia.

The second HA.1112 wears Technische Offizier markings on the standard OstAfrika Luftwaffe savanna scheme. The 'leopard africa' motif is a personal mark. This beat-up fighter, based in occupied Northern Rhodesia, also features a replacement fin.

The third aircraft is a 2-seater with yellow training bands. At some point, 'Sieglinde' has swapped cowlings with another HA.1112 which had worn the arid-pattern camouflage.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: JoseFern February 28, 2012, 05:24:25 AM
Brilliant 109s! 8)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: JP Vieira February 28, 2012, 06:21:45 AM
Very good!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia February 28, 2012, 11:26:40 AM
Cheers lads! Next batch are captured '109s. The first has been resprayed in early Kenyan markings. The second is a war trophy in the Cape still in its New South African Republic markings.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: elmayerle February 28, 2012, 11:48:39 AM
How about an air-racing Buchon with a low-drag canopy and the Merlin replaced by a Griffon?
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: JP Vieira February 28, 2012, 04:57:27 PM
Keep it up, it is great!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: AXOR February 28, 2012, 07:52:14 PM
 :-*

Alex
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin February 29, 2012, 02:48:00 AM
definitely good work - the different markings/schemes are wonderful.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Brian da Basher February 29, 2012, 07:44:09 AM
Your African 109s have some wonderful color schemes!

Brian da Basher
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia February 29, 2012, 12:32:10 PM
Cheers guys! This batch are Kenyan and ex-Uganda '109s
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia February 29, 2012, 12:39:04 PM
How about an air-racing Buchon with a low-drag canopy and the Merlin replaced by a Griffon?

Cool idea Evan. Here's my stab at it ... "ˇMatalo, Hombre!"

First up is an Ejército del Aire aircraft reworked as a civil racer for recruiting purposes.  This Merlin engined racer is dubbed 'Manolo' to capitalize on the contemporary popularity of bullfighter Manuel Benitez Perez (aka El Cordobés).

The second aircraft is post EdA service display aircraft for Snecma division, Hispano-Suiza. This aircraft was based on a two-seater. The Merlin has been replaced by a Griffon 65 and a fuel tank replaces the forward cockpit to maintain balance.

And now I have to post and run ... my CPU's power supply sounds like an Ag-Cat preparing for take-off  :o
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: AXOR February 29, 2012, 05:43:59 PM
Well,those racing aircraft looks really really cool !!! (http://freesmileyface.net/smiley/respect/respect-064.gif)

Alex
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe February 29, 2012, 07:16:20 PM
I love the Snecma Griffon with rear cokpit. So gorgeous :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia March 01, 2012, 06:25:58 AM
Thanks Tophe. This next installment of East African '109s requires a little more explanation ...

After WWII, Messerschmitt OA (in full, the Messerschmitt Ost Afrika Aktiengesellschaft) was set up primarily as an MRO facility and assembler of reclaimed or imported components. That changed when Messerschmitt OA began design of a Bf-109 replacement aircraft.

The Me-209 was unrelated to German designs with the same designation. Messerschmitt OA's 209 was intended to close the performance gap between OstAfrikan Luftwaffe fighters and the RAF Spitfire 24s and FAA Sea Furies being encountered.

The basic structure of the Bf-109 was retained for the Me-209 concept. Power was increased through the use of a French 2100 hp Arsaéro 12H-00 inverted V12 (a developed, Arsenal-built Jumo 213 -- an engine type then being imported as spares for the OAL's Ju-188 fleet).

In its original guise, the Me-209 distinguished itself from its progenitor by having an all-around vision canopy over a raised cockpit position. This allowed the Messerschmitt OA designers to increase fuselage fuel, maintain c/g, and improve pilot sight-lines.

After review by the TA-OAL (Technische Amt der OstAfrika Luftwaffe), the initial Me-209 proposal was rejected as being underpowered and having insufficient development potential. Messerschmitt OA answered with the revised Me-209TL with an exhaust-driven turbocharger. The latter was a TKL 15 (also obtained from the French) in an underbelly fairing.

Additional power came in the form of a 2250 hp Arsaéro 12H-02 engine driving a five-bladed propeller. The wingtips were to be extended to improve performance at altitude and a new tail surface (inspired by the OAL's Me-262) would help control the planned fighter. Once again, the TA-OAL rejected the Me-209 design. But Messerschmitt OA wasn't finished with their Me-209 concept just yet ...
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: finsrin March 01, 2012, 02:48:29 PM
Could try a Me-262 wing less engines on these last two.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Brian da Basher March 02, 2012, 06:41:17 AM
Your Me 209 is a fantastic concept, apophenia! Wish I'd thought of it!

Brian da Basher
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Empty Handed March 04, 2012, 07:27:47 PM
Great 209s!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: JP Vieira March 04, 2012, 08:46:07 PM
Great ones!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia March 05, 2012, 11:18:22 AM
Thanks guys! My old captions for the Ost Afrika series popped up on my hard drive. So, I think I'll turn that into a storyline. Meanwhile someone asked about US Sunderlands ...
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Logan Hartke March 05, 2012, 11:20:22 AM
Very cool.  Those look great.

Cheers,

Logan
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia March 05, 2012, 11:33:57 AM
Thanks Logan. I forgot to acknowledge that I based them on an RAF profile by Andrey Yurgenson  :-[
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin March 05, 2012, 05:00:10 PM
Fantastic!!!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: JP Vieira March 05, 2012, 05:27:53 PM
The Sunderlands are great!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: jorel62 March 05, 2012, 06:24:59 PM
Very Cool !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Maverick March 05, 2012, 08:34:29 PM
Very nice indeed, I particularly like the different turrets.

Regards,

John
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Empty Handed March 05, 2012, 10:23:31 PM
Sunderlands look great!!!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia March 07, 2012, 12:08:03 PM
Thanks lads. Now just a bit of silliness based on the Wellesley...

The first is the Type 294 Wellesley PR Mk III, immediately distinguished by its Rolls-Royce Merlin I engine. But the Type 294 was actually a twin-engined design. Where the observer's cockpit had been, sat a 'slave' Rolls-Royce Kestrel XVI driving a large Bentley blower to boost the Merlin's high-altitude performance.

A less successful Type 294 descendant was the Vickers Wellington (aka 'Twin Wellesley'), a twin-engined bomber. Intended as a fast bomber, the Wellington proved anything but. By the time the Wellington began reaching RAF squadrons in 1937, the type was already obsolete.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe March 07, 2012, 01:02:41 PM
Wonderful! :-*

A less successful Type 294 descendant was the Vickers Wellington (aka 'Twin Wellesley'), a twin-engined bomber.
Is the Twin in the name just for twin-engined or also for twin-fuselage? ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: The Big Gimper March 07, 2012, 07:12:32 PM
Thanks lads. Now just a bit of silliness based on the Wellesley...

The first is the Type 294 Wellesley PR Mk III, immediately distinguished by its Rolls-Royce Merlin I engine. But the Type 294 was actually a twin-engined design. Where the observer's cockpit had been, sat a 'slave' Rolls-Royce Kestrel XVI driving a large Bentley blower to boost the Merlin's high-altitude performance.

I stopped reading at "PR".  ;D  Great concept.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin March 08, 2012, 02:14:09 AM
The PR one is perfect!

Now, how about a RAF Coastal Command one?
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia March 08, 2012, 05:24:32 AM
Thanks guys. Greg: A Coastal Command Welleseley could work -- more fuel in those bomb containers?

Is the Twin in the name just for twin-engined or also for twin-fuselage?

 ;D  Probably a better idea than my twin-engined 'Wellington' Tophe!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe March 08, 2012, 01:39:28 PM
Both ideas seem good, I will "work" for that (for fun), thanks!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe March 08, 2012, 02:15:14 PM
already done (with the help of Blohm und Voss):
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v670/Tophe2712/r_twin_wellesley.jpg)
Thanks again!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe March 09, 2012, 11:55:29 AM
Sorry Apophenia, I must stay closer to your genius profile: port engine without cockpit then fuselage without engine: (Blohm und Voss helps anyway)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v670/Tophe2712/R_twin_wellesley2.jpg)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia March 10, 2012, 08:21:23 AM
Tophe: great variations as usual :) Part of what got me going on a twin-engines Wellesley is the original's tremendous span. But now I'm leaning towards a trimotor  ;D

Based on Glenn R's slendid scratch-built 1/32nd Wellesley on Britmodeller.com
http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t60795.html (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t60795.html)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Logan Hartke March 10, 2012, 08:49:16 AM
That trimotor's great.  Looks very 1930s.  Neat idea and it would be great if someone really did it in plastic.

Cheers,

Logan
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe March 10, 2012, 10:34:19 AM
Wow, great three-engined version, will you pixelize it?
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia March 10, 2012, 12:08:52 PM
Thanks Logan. I don't think it would be that hard (if you had the cowlings, props, etc.). Can't really see buying three kits for those fittings so probably one for the casting clone crowd  ;)

Wow, great three-engined version, will you pixelize it?

I'm not as thorough as you Tophe  :-[   I doubt  that I'd do a sideview of the trimotor, It'd look abit too much like the twin-engined 'Wellington' with the old Wellesley nose engine plonked back on  :D
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe March 10, 2012, 01:28:15 PM
I'm not as thorough as you Tophe  :-[ 
My English is not fluent enough to be sure, but I think I disagree: YOUR profiles are thorough indeed, according to me, I mean: both perfect and inventive and pleasant and nice (well not "both" but "fourth"?) hehe... ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: jcf March 10, 2012, 04:53:01 PM
Where the observer's cockpit had been, sat a 'slave' Rolls-Royce Kestrel XVI driving a large Bentley blower to boost the Merlin's high-altitude performance.

So by 'a large Bentley Blower', do you mean an enlarged version of the Roots-type blowers supplied by Amherst Villiers for use on Bentley automobiles? Or something altogether different?
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Brian da Basher March 11, 2012, 03:20:16 AM
Your twin-engined Wellesley is absolutely inspired, apophenia! Tophe, your various permutations of it are imaginative and delightful too!

Nice work, guys!

Brian da Basher
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia March 11, 2012, 07:24:45 AM
Thanks guys. Here's an oldie that may appeal to Brian ...

JCF: Yep, 'Roots' would've been my pre-aphasia choice of names  :-[
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Silver Fox March 11, 2012, 08:16:40 AM
That has a classic look to it, very believable!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe March 11, 2012, 11:22:14 AM
Why "believable"? Is it a fake picture? It seems so perfect, I am pretty sure this is true, not fake, am I wrong?
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Empty Handed March 12, 2012, 03:43:49 AM
Love the Wellesleys!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia March 12, 2012, 11:44:51 AM
Cheers EH.

Why "believable"? Is it a fake picture? It seems so perfect, I am pretty sure this is true, not fake, am I wrong?

A complete fake Tophe. But not to worry, the next one is absolutely real. No really, honest ...  ;D
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe March 12, 2012, 11:58:18 AM
Congratulations for your faking talents. But now, at the tribunal, what will be the meaning of "photographic proof"? ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: jcf March 12, 2012, 02:26:08 PM
JCF: Yep, 'Roots' would've been my pre-aphasia choice of names  :-[


Cool, so an installation like the classic front-mounted GMC 6-71 blower use in hot-rods and dragsters
before the top-mount arrangement became dominant:
(http://allshops.org/community/CommunityAlbum/9990119731829.jpg)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Brian da Basher March 13, 2012, 05:03:48 AM
Thanks guys. Here's an oldie that may appeal to Brian ...

JCF: Yep, 'Roots' would've been my pre-aphasia choice of names  :-[

My what lovely spats you have there!
 :-* :-*
Nice work, aphophenia!

Brian da Basher
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia March 13, 2012, 10:56:47 AM
Cheers Brian. Jon: That is exactly what I had in mind! Although I must admit I didn't know that hotrodders had ever used that arrangement. Very cool!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: elmayerle March 13, 2012, 11:16:10 AM
JCF: Yep, 'Roots' would've been my pre-aphasia choice of names  :-[


Cool, so an installation like the classic front-mounted GMC 6-71 blower use in hot-rods and dragsters
before the top-mount arrangement became dominant:
([url]http://allshops.org/community/CommunityAlbum/9990119731829.jpg[/url])

Damn, that looks like the blower that Bond had on his Bentley in one of the early Bond novels (I mis-remember which as it's been ages since I read them).  I could see that as a booster/supplement engine for the propulsive engines.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia March 14, 2012, 06:26:05 AM
My take on ysi_maniac's Advanced Britannia http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=957.15 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=957.15)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Daryl J. March 14, 2012, 06:48:59 AM
The Advanced Brittania looks great
Kudos to both of you.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: ysi_maniac March 14, 2012, 07:48:41 AM
Hi Apophenia,your profile is REALLY TEMPTING! 8) 8)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: upnorth March 14, 2012, 02:29:38 PM
Hmmmm....

That Britannia looks a treat!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Brian da Basher March 15, 2012, 05:01:01 AM
My take on ysi_maniac's Advanced Britannia [url]http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=957.15[/url] ([url]http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=957.15[/url])


Yowsa that's sleek and stunning! You & Mr Ysi would make a top-notch design bureau!

Brian da Basher
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: JP Vieira March 15, 2012, 05:31:44 AM
My take on ysi_maniac's Advanced Britannia [url]http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=957.15[/url] ([url]http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=957.15[/url])


Great profile
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia March 15, 2012, 10:22:16 AM
Yowsa that's sleek and stunning! You & Mr Ysi would make a top-notch design bureau!

Cheers Brian. The YsiApo OKB perhaps? "We can paint it any colour you like but spats are mandatory!"

The Dash 8/Q Series keeps popping up elsewhere on the forum so here's an oldie ...
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe March 15, 2012, 10:30:54 AM
oldie but goodie! :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: elmayerle March 15, 2012, 10:49:39 AM
Yowsa that's sleek and stunning! You & Mr Ysi would make a top-notch design bureau!

Cheers Brian. The YsiApo OKB perhaps? "We can paint it any colour you like but spats are mandatory!"

The Dash 8/Q Series keeps popping up elsewhere on the forum so here's an oldie ...
Very nice indeed.  That needs to share an airport concourse with a tilt-rotor Dash 8 and a Dash 8/Rotodyne cross.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Brian da Basher March 16, 2012, 07:19:20 PM
Wow that tilt-rotor Dash-8 is killer and I love the arctic Canadian markings! Nice touch!

Brian da Basher
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: jcf March 17, 2012, 05:44:19 AM
Hmmm, advanced Brittannia, eh?

... and seeing as I have a 1/144 CL-44 in the stash ...   :icon_fsm:
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia March 17, 2012, 08:25:41 AM
Thanks guys! I decided to go 'old school' on this one. What would a Bombardier tilt-wing look like if Kārlis Irbītis was still at the drawing board  ;)

Hmmm, advanced Brittannia, eh?
... and seeing as I have a 1/144 CL-44 in the stash ...   :icon_fsm:

Jon: Advanced Yukon?  ;D
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: jcf March 17, 2012, 11:10:08 AM

Hmmm, advanced Brittannia, eh?
... and seeing as I have a 1/144 CL-44 in the stash ...   :icon_fsm:


Jon: Advanced Yukon?  ;D


Nah, I'd keep it
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/84/Loftleidir_logo.png)

 ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia March 19, 2012, 10:51:50 AM
Nah, I'd keep it [Loftleiđir]

Ah, so you're a fan of extra long, tubular structures then?   ;D
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia March 19, 2012, 10:55:10 AM
This was inspired by Greg's Wellington Ideas & Inspiration comment.
http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=991.msg12520#msg12520 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=991.msg12520#msg12520)

History buffs will get the name. RAF nerds will get the 'QR' code  ;)
_____________________________________________________

Taken into service as the Vickers Uxbridge general-recce bomber, the Type 431 began as an attempt to produce a higher-performing bomber from an airframe with maximum commonality with the Wellington and Warwick. As built, the Type 431 was essentially a 'cropped' Wellington.

The Uxbridge wings and horizontal tail were identical to those of the Wellington other than being of reduced span (70' vs 86' for the wings). The Uxbridge fuselage was also shortened (forward of Wellington frame 25). It was intended that Uxbridge medium bombers should have Fraser-Nash nose turrets but, in the end, all service Uxbridge GRs had fixed nose guns.

The Uxbridge illustrated is in a night intruder scheme. Most Uxbridge were in Coastal Command schemes and carried Leigh Lights for their U-Boat strafing.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Daryl J. March 19, 2012, 12:51:46 PM
Nice!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin March 19, 2012, 04:27:01 PM
Me likely...
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: upnorth March 19, 2012, 04:52:36 PM
Wow! that Uxbridge is nasty!

Just needs Coastal Command cammo.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: JP Vieira March 20, 2012, 11:51:30 PM
That Vickers is something special
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia March 21, 2012, 12:13:51 PM
Thanks guys! Upnorth: I may just have to do that Coastal Command version  ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Empty Handed March 21, 2012, 11:13:38 PM
^ Ooo ooo!!! Any chance of a 2-tone Mediterranean blue/white Coastal Command one? The Uxbridge looks great!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Rafael March 22, 2012, 01:29:35 AM
^ Ooo ooo!!! Any chance of a 2-tone Mediterranean blue/white Coastal Command one? The Uxbridge looks great!

Great idea!, Please, Apophenia!

Rafa
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia March 22, 2012, 10:01:32 AM
Over the Med: A Vickers Uxbridge Mk.IVA inbound with one feathered after an otherwise successful strike on Italian shipping.

^ Ooo ooo!!! Any chance of a 2-tone Mediterranean blue/white Coastal Command one? The Uxbridge looks great!

Sorry EH and Rafael ... I don't know the scheme. Is that the Beaufort camo?
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Empty Handed March 22, 2012, 06:21:03 PM
Very nice!

2-tone Mediterranean blue


http://www.jpsmodell.de/dc/schemes/raf_med42_e.htm (http://www.jpsmodell.de/dc/schemes/raf_med42_e.htm)

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t66426-200.html (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t66426-200.html)

: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Rafael March 22, 2012, 08:46:20 PM
As EH pointed out :-* :-*

Rafa
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia March 23, 2012, 10:08:26 AM
EH: Thanks for the refs. When I first heard of this scheme for Beauforts I was envisoning a 'solid' upper scheme of Dk Med Blue. But, if I understand correctly now, it was actually a 2-tone upper scheme of Dk and Lt Med Blue?
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia March 23, 2012, 10:10:16 AM
This is a spin-off from my "Anything Goes" GB entry --  Avro Canada VTOL Fighters
http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=910.0 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=910.0)

Avro Canada CF-117C Ares of 441 (Silver Fox) Sqn, 1 Wing, Baden-Soellingen. This aircraft carries a special, airshow scheme for the Ares' final year of Canadian Forces service. 441 flew the CF-117C in the tactical reconnaissance role (usually with the Vinten Vicon camera pod mounted). 441 Squadron flew the final CF-117 flight on 01 March 1986.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe March 23, 2012, 11:02:50 AM
nicely canuck...
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin March 24, 2012, 02:35:26 AM
Me likey!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: The Big Gimper March 24, 2012, 02:50:22 AM
Yowsa that's sleek and stunning! You & Mr Ysi would make a top-notch design bureau!

Cheers Brian. The YsiApo OKB perhaps? "We can paint it any colour you like but spats are mandatory!"

The Dash 8/Q Series keeps popping up elsewhere on the forum so here's an oldie ...

DROOL!!!!!!   :-* :-* :-* :-*

: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Empty Handed March 24, 2012, 03:06:22 AM
EH: Thanks for the refs. When I first heard of this scheme for Beauforts I was envisoning a 'solid' upper scheme of Dk Med Blue. But, if I understand correctly now, it was actually a 2-tone upper scheme of Dk and Lt Med Blue?

I think it is still very much a bone of contention as to what the colour scheme really was but I for one would love to see more of the 2-tone!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Silver Fox March 24, 2012, 04:24:43 AM
Love the Checkerbird Ares! I just might have to grab the Testors F-104 and Lear... wouldn't be perfect, but the Testors F-104 is 1/3 the cost of a proper 'G'.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia March 26, 2012, 06:55:03 AM
Thanks guys! Here's another oldie ...
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Silver Fox March 26, 2012, 09:15:39 AM
Now that is an advanced trainer!
Would also make a grea tmodern Mosquito.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia March 26, 2012, 10:15:03 AM
Thanks! I had in mind a cheap, early '60s COIN aircraft -- wing pylons, tip tanks/rocket pods, etc. I don't know if the steel-tube frame of the T-6/Harvard fuselage is actually wide enough to accommodate an ejector seat but the Sabre 6 canopy plopped on there nicely  ;D
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe March 26, 2012, 10:20:13 AM
With this missing link you have found, the Harvards are Mustangs! Thanks! :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: elmayerle March 26, 2012, 10:23:28 AM
So, is the engine a PT6 variant?  It's the only production engine I know of with the reverse flow to yield front exhausts.   That would be in keeping with what the airframe is stressed for rather than some over-powering engine.  You could probably locally modify the steel-tube fusealge to allow for fitting an ejection seat, so I'd not worry on that account.  Tip tanks (perhaps from Cavalier's Mustang conversions) with underwing rockets and rocket pods sound good, though I think I'd also want at least one gun pod under each wing for when I want to get a bit more "personal".
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia March 27, 2012, 11:46:44 AM
Yes, I had in mind the 680 shp PT6A-15AG. But I'm not sure when that model was introduced. For the early '60s, the lower-powered PT6A-6 or PT6A-11 might be more realistic.

For load, I was thinking wingtip pod/tanks as mentioned plus four underwing pylons. FN Herstal 7.62mm gun pods would be one option for the inboard pylons.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: elmayerle March 27, 2012, 11:55:53 AM
I like your load-out ideas, though I can see rockets under the outboard wings (much like Mustangs used in Korea) in addition to the other hardpoints.  It would be a challenge to do a similar aircraft powered by a T76/TPE331 of similar early-1960s vintage.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia March 28, 2012, 08:58:30 AM
Yeah, the Garrett is pretty much contemporary with the PT6A. A little trickier arranging the exhaust outlet but, otherwise, a fairly straightforward T-6 conversion I'd think.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia March 31, 2012, 10:01:16 AM
Attached is a summary image for my Anything Goes Group Build submission. The 'build thread' has potted histories for entire whif series of VTOL aircraft springing from the RW 1956 Avro Canada submission to the US Navy's TS-140 contest for a Mach 2 day fighter.

In this Avro Canada VTOL Fighter series, 21 aircraft are illustrated comprising 19 design variations. Check it out: http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=910.msg9958#msg9958 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=910.msg9958#msg9958)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe March 31, 2012, 10:48:08 AM
Interesting, thanks for the link!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia April 01, 2012, 11:10:07 AM
Thanks Tophe.

This one was inspired by Greg's concept for an RAF Ki.48 'Lily'. The tricky bit is fitting the RAF's torpedo and still having room for a belly gunner over 4' high! Let's just say that the Kyoto Mk.III replaced the belly gunner with remotely-controlled guns  ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin April 01, 2012, 12:06:03 PM
Oh yeah!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Jeffry Fontaine April 01, 2012, 12:08:27 PM
Thanks! I had in mind a cheap, early '60s COIN aircraft -- wing pylons, tip tanks/rocket pods, etc. I don't know if the steel-tube frame of the T-6/Harvard fuselage is actually wide enough to accommodate an ejector seat but the Sabre 6 canopy plopped on there nicely  ;D


I really like that PT-6 powered AT-6.  Nice and the bubble canopy certainly makes it look much more modern. 

As for as the space issues for a standard ejection seat go, there is an alternative to consider with the Stanley Yankee Extraction System.  It takes takes up far less room in the cockpit and was designed for slower or lower performance aircraft. 

Link to Kevin Coyne's Ejection Site pages for:

Stanley Yankee Extraction System Seat (http://www.ejectionsite.com/yankee.htm)

Stanley Aviation Inc. (http://www.ejectionsite.com/stanley/)

: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Logan Hartke April 01, 2012, 12:28:26 PM
That is great, apophenia!  Of your recent profiles, I think this one's my favorite!  Very cool!

Cheers,

Logan
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia April 02, 2012, 08:27:43 AM
Thanks for the links Jeffry. That Stanley seat looks ideal ... and the timeframe is perfect for what I had in mind :)

Logan: Glad you like her. I was intrigued by Greg's suggestion of Japan coming into the war on Britain's side as per WWI. An ETO Japanese AAF aircraft didn't offer sufficient marking variation to tempt. I am toying with doing an RAAF version though. If Japan was an Ally, it rather makes sense for Australia to source imported aircraft from slightly closer to home.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia April 02, 2012, 11:52:08 AM
Here's the RAAF 'Lily' that I threatened (I also took the opportunity to clean up some of the sloppier bits of the RAF version above).
------------------

The RAAF received Kawasaki Kyoto Mk.IIAs and Mk.IIIs from RAF stocks. Later Australia would order Kawasaki Type 99s directly from Japan. Since these aircraft would be medium bombers, they were given the name Kookaburra to distinguish them from the torpedo carriers.

Kookaburra marks followed the Kyoto sequence. The Mk.IV were essentially the Kyoto Mk.III with torpedo gear deleted. The Kookaburra Mk.V introduced more powerful (1,130 hp) Ha.115 engines and remotely-fired belly defence guns. Mk.VIs substituted US Bendix 250 CE turrets while Mk.VIs added nose guns. The Kookaburra Mk.VII replaced the fixed nose guns with 'package' guns on the side of the forward fuselage. Mk.VIIIs introduced surface search radar.

'Porky' is a Kookaburra Mk.VII based at Rabaul to safeguard Australia's Territory of New Guinea mandate. Armament is non-standard, mixing Mk.VI .303" nose guns with Mk.VII .50" package guns. Porky's mission symbols appear to be shown as milk bottles. Kookaburras of 15 Sqn saw comparitively little action but scored a notable success with the sinking of the German surface raider Komet off Bougainville.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Logan Hartke April 02, 2012, 12:08:52 PM
That looks great, and surprisingly un-Japanese.

Cheers,

Logan
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: finsrin April 02, 2012, 01:28:44 PM
That looks great, and surprisingly un-Japanese.

Cheers,

Logan

Agree.   The Japanenseness seems all gone to me.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin April 02, 2012, 04:55:21 PM
I know.  That's what got me the first time I saw it.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Doom! April 02, 2012, 10:42:25 PM
Amazing what a difference a new paint scheme makes, very nice!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Jeffry Fontaine April 03, 2012, 08:28:40 AM
Thanks for the links Jeffry. That Stanley seat looks ideal ... and the timeframe is perfect for what I had in mind :)


If you are working on this project in 1/48th scale you are in luck, Squadron Mail Order offers a resin 1/48th scale Stanley seat (http://www.squadron.com/ItemDetails.asp?item=TD48424) in their True Details product line. 
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia April 03, 2012, 12:14:21 PM
Thanks folks. I've kept the 'Japaneseness' for this one. Following from Greg's suggestion that the Japanese may be operating aircraft alongside their British allies.
_________________

Kawasaki developed the Ki.45 To-Go attack variant of the Toryu when delays to the Ki.66 divebomber project became unacceptable. One squadron of the Japanese Combined Force's Ki.45 To-Go was 'lodged' with RAF Coastal Command's North Coates strike wing.

The To-Go illustrated has been repainted at an RAF maintenance depot (the pealing finish due to the nature of the Japanese aluminum alloy use to build the plane). The RAF-style squadron codes were a nod to neighbouring 236 Squadron, RAF. The serial would have been applied during the repaint for RAF record keeping.

JN 014 was lost in December 1942 during a strike on German shipping off the Dutch coast.

[BTW: this was based on a blank by 'AAP'. Dunno who he is but he's good.]
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia April 03, 2012, 12:15:17 PM
If you are working on this project in 1/48th scale you are in luck, Squadron Mail Order offers a resin 1/48th scale Stanley seat ([url]http://www.squadron.com/ItemDetails.asp?item=TD48424[/url]) in their True Details product line.


Thanks Jeffry but this one's strictly pixels for me.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe April 03, 2012, 12:25:21 PM
I've kept the 'Japaneseness' for this one. Following from Greg's suggestion that the Japanese may be operating aircraft alongside their British allies.
Kept the roundel, but in a RAF camo, this is weird and funny... or crazy, gently crazy I mean ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin April 03, 2012, 04:33:07 PM
Love it.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Empty Handed April 03, 2012, 04:49:22 PM
That Ki-45 is great!!!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia April 04, 2012, 05:38:45 AM
Cheers guys! I'm imagining Ki.45 fighters as long-range escorts for the To-Go. Divebombing seemed a little passé for 1942 land-based aircraft so I deleted the wing divebrakes. (I'm guessing that the RW Ki.66 would've been completely restressed for divebombing anyway.)

The Ki.45 To-Go would've been employed more as a conventional attack aircraft for bomb (or possibly torpedo?) runs on light surface shipping. Over time, the To-Go would have been eclipsed by more flexible, straightforward Ki.45 fighter-bomber variants.

As for the air element of the Japanese Combined Force, that worked surprisingly well despite the mixed crews with differing cultures from the IJAAF and IJN. And of course, these WWII units were the progenitors of the unified Imperial Japanese Air Force that we know today  ;D

Kept the roundel, but in a RAF camo, this is weird and funny... or crazy, gently crazy I mean ;)

Yes, I went for an RAF look but retaining the Japanese hinomaru. Camouflage is as per contemporary Beaufighters. Other RAF touches were the yellow surround for the fuselage hinomaru and the fin flash. The latter I took from USAAF MTO aircraft (but added a rising sun banner above it for fun!).
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin April 04, 2012, 05:53:43 AM
Can't wait to see what you do next.  Maybe a desert based one?
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia April 04, 2012, 10:56:32 AM
How'dju know  :D
----------------------

New Zealand was the first Commonwealth country to order the Kawasaki Type 2 escort fighter. The RNZAF had a requirement for a long-range strike fighter and the Ki-45 seemed to fit the bill. Ordered for the RNZAF, the type was named the Kea as part of their practice of naming combat aircraft after indigenous birds.

The first overseas unit to receive the Kea was No. 487 (NZ) Squadron. A New Zealander-manned RAF squadron, 487 was formed at Norfolk alongside Combined Japanese Force squadrons. After training, 487 deploying to Malta in September 1942. Stationed at Luqa, the Keas acting in an anti-shipping role as well as strikes against land targets in Sicily.

NZ139 was a Kea Mk.IIB, the first of the 'long-beaked' Keas. This variant introduced the US 37mm Browning M4 in place of the lower-velocity Japanese Ho 203 autocannon. The defensive armament was also increased through the use of an armour-protected twin gun mount. While in Malta, 487 experimented with twin, belly-mounted 37mm guns but these proved too heavy for the airframe. Twin belly bomb racks remained the standard fit until wing-rack 60-lb rocket projectiles were introduced.

[BTW: the crucifixes under the cockpit are symbols for missions over Italy not victories!]
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Silver Fox April 04, 2012, 11:03:07 AM
Very convincing!
 
It does need a 'Malcolm Hood' though. :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia April 04, 2012, 11:13:18 AM

It does need a 'Malcolm Hood' though.

Good idea! I did raise the hood for visibility but didn't go 'clear blown'. Ironically, the Japanese weren't noted for their plastic work back then. So, just like the Mustang's Malcom hoods, a UK retrofit then.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Logan Hartke April 04, 2012, 11:38:00 AM
Interesting thing about Japanese aircraft to keep in mind when considering the dull, pragmatic aspects of non-Japanese users is that they were made very specifically for the Japanese.  My father and I were discussing this recently in the context of one of our hypothetical "best of" scenarios.

Japanese aircraft were incredibly high performance for their day, the equivalent of most Western designs.  This is even more incredible when you look at the hp their engines produced and their all up gross weight.  How did they manage that?  Well, as they say, "there's no such thing as a free lunch".  Japanese design philosophy eschewed such "luxuries" as self-sealing fuel tanks, armor, and basically anything else that prevented the aircraft from becoming a ball of fire if anyone dared to light a cigarette nearby.  They had almost zero (no pun intended) ability to absorb enemy fire.

Does this mean that they're totally unsuitable for combat?  By no means.  But, if used by the British, Australians, or almost any Western military, they would be brought up to Western standards with such protection.  They still would have been comparable, but you have to factor in the speed, altitude, and range penalties that would most certainly be brought upon by these modifications.

I didn't mean to say these are totally implausible, just that they wouldn't be as "zippy" as the same planes in Japanese service.

Anyway, they look great, so by all means continue!

Cheers,

Logan
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: elmayerle April 04, 2012, 12:23:58 PM
I suspect we might see some engine upgrades somewhere along the way to restore performance.  You have to wonder how a Ki-100 would do with a R2800 fitted, as an example.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin April 04, 2012, 04:20:59 PM
Love the desert bird! 
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: The Big Gimper April 04, 2012, 06:30:36 PM
Thanks guys! Here's another oldie ...

If you had not identified the A/C as a Harvard, I'd be still scratching my head on what it was.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: JP Vieira April 05, 2012, 01:40:33 AM
Very good
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia April 05, 2012, 09:52:48 AM
Thanks lads.

Logan: well said. In the RW, there's no advantage without trade-offs. We know what happened to the performance of P-36s and P-39s when they suddenly needed RAF levels of protection. Same would've happened to the Japanese airframes.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia April 07, 2012, 01:07:36 PM
NZ107 was a Kawasaki Kea Mk.IC of 488 (New Zealand) Squadron flying from Malta. In March 1943, 'F' for Freddie was on an 'Intruder' operations over Sicily when fuel contamination started the engines spluttering. The crew pressed home their attack on Palermo airfield and then turned for home.

Once out to sea, the engines began running even rougher. The crew began jettisoning all non-essential equipment including personal weapons. Just after unshipping the navigators K gun, NZ107 was intercepted off Trapani by CR.42s of 4° Stormo CT. With no way to fight, the crew were escorted into Borizzo Airfield to surrender.

Freddie was repainted in Regia Aeronautica markings for flight tests. The heavily touched-up paintwork was typical of Keas operated in night schemes where covering chips and peeling was vital. Italian wing roundels and tail cross were applied along with a black recognition stripe.

NZ107's tail wheel was locked down suggestion a hydraulic problem. That may explain why the aircraft was written off in a wheels-up landing by a visiting Luftwaffe TO in late April 1943. She was then staked-out as a decoy. The ruse was apparently successful since NZ107 was destroyed by strafing P-38s during the invasion of Sicily.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin April 07, 2012, 03:10:50 PM
Winner!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: upnorth April 07, 2012, 06:08:41 PM
Those are some great variations on the theme.!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia April 08, 2012, 12:48:35 PM
Thanks guys! The linky below is for my April Fool's GB entry:
http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=1037.msg14631#msg14631 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=1037.msg14631#msg14631)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Silver Fox April 08, 2012, 10:25:44 PM
Love the Q500! Experts might know that Field hasn't proposed a Q500, but they would also probably wonder why it hasn't. :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia April 09, 2012, 11:23:44 AM
Thanks Silver Fox. It makes sense to me. Q300 with Q400 engines means low TBO but enough emergency power to climb like a scorched monkey  ;D

Elsewhere, Upnorth was pondering on a South American Stuka. Here's my go -- the FMA I.Ae. 19 Boleadora (here in service as a naval coastal strike aircraft).
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin April 09, 2012, 11:35:17 AM
Love it.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Silver Fox April 09, 2012, 12:06:34 PM
Wow! The Stuka heritage is visible, but that looks positively sleek.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: upnorth April 09, 2012, 02:35:20 PM
That Stuka is tremendous!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: AXOR April 09, 2012, 07:30:16 PM
Waw,nice!  :-*

Alex
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Logan Hartke April 09, 2012, 11:55:28 PM
Logan: Glad you like her. I was intrigued by Greg's suggestion of Japan coming into the war on Britain's side as per WWI. An ETO Japanese AAF aircraft didn't offer sufficient marking variation to tempt. I am toying with doing an RAAF version though. If Japan was an Ally, it rather makes sense for Australia to source imported aircraft from slightly closer to home.


Listen to this podcast at 48 minutes (right-click and 'save as'). (http://bobrowen.com/nymas/podcasts/Ed%20Miller%20-%20Bankrupting%20Japan.mp3)  I found it at NYMAS's site (http://bobrowen.com/nymas/podcasts.html).  The whole thing is worth listening to, but 48 min makes for some good whiffery.  It's talking about what Japan's options were in response to the US's economic (specifically oil) embargoes of the late 1930s and early 1940s.

Cheers,

Logan
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Empty Handed April 11, 2012, 02:38:13 AM
Oooo! That night intruder Ki-45 is gorgeous!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia April 11, 2012, 11:14:35 AM
Thanks EH. Here's another stab at Upnorth's South American Stuka.

Logan: sounds intriguing. Any idea if there's a text version of this anywhere?
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Logan Hartke April 11, 2012, 11:24:24 AM
Very neat.  As for the podcast, no, sadly.  I downloaded almost all of the podcasts and have been listening to them over the past couple weeks.  Very good and very informative!

Cheers,

Logan
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin April 11, 2012, 03:47:55 PM
Whoa!!!  That seriously needs building!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: AXOR April 11, 2012, 04:44:14 PM
 :-* Well,the last one is quite interesting,me likey!

Alex
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: upnorth April 11, 2012, 05:04:58 PM
Right! Stuka and Corsair on the shopping list!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: ChernayaAkula April 12, 2012, 07:53:52 AM
Wicked! Seriously, seriously wicked! (http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m309/ChernayaAkula/Emoticons/ukliam2.gif)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia April 12, 2012, 10:17:00 AM
Thanks guys. It got me wondering about other stuff from that era that would benefit from a Dart...

[BTW: the raised canopy combines parts from the HA 200 Saetta.]
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: upnorth April 12, 2012, 03:15:51 PM
Now that is just something else! :-*

Now, can you imagine Dart powered Corsairs in the Football War? >:D
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin April 12, 2012, 05:13:29 PM
Go on...do a Dart powered Ta-152!!!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: upnorth April 12, 2012, 05:39:16 PM
Go on...do a Dart powered Ta-152!!!

Or a double dart post war Spanish development of the Do-335...
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Talos April 12, 2012, 10:08:29 PM

Or a double dart post war Spanish development of the Do-335...

I believe that requires a double-dart dare.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin April 15, 2012, 02:58:49 AM
Not a Dart engined one, but did someone say Turboprop Do-335?

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/melbsyd/335c3.jpg)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe April 15, 2012, 11:32:16 AM
Wonderful Do-335, thanks!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: finsrin April 15, 2012, 03:00:40 PM
Perfect Do-335 engine upgrade.   :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: upnorth April 15, 2012, 03:08:38 PM
Now that just looks nasty! :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia April 16, 2012, 09:10:30 AM
Love the Turbo-Pfeil Greg! Here's some more Spaniards with Darts ...
__________________________

A pair of Hispano Aviación HA-1112-T1L (aka HA-1113) Turbo-Buchóns of the Fuerza Aérea Canaria. Known locally as the Magido ('Sword'), the HA-1113 were ex-Ejército del Aire aircraft supplied when the Canaries gained independance from Spain in 1972.

The first Magido retains EdA camouflage over which the Spanish had applied FAC markings. These consisted of rudder stripes, six roundels (based on the Movimiento Nacionalista Canario flag) and, originally, 'NACIÓN CANARIA' stencil on wingtip tanks.

Magido 09/E was with Ala 1, Núm 3 Escuadrón de Caza-Ataque at BAM Gando (Las Palmas, Gran Canaria). She wears an unofficial Ala 1 crest on her nose (the white 'casa' being a pun on local pronuciation of 'caza') and a personal marking (the name 'Yaiza' on the tail).

The second Magido, 11/A, belongs to Guanil 3, 3 Hańa (CA) based at Goro Tyteroygatra. This is actually part of the same squadron as Magido 09/E (above) but the nomenclature has been changed to local indigenous terms (as have base locations and island names). Gua 3, 3 Hańa translates loosely as 3rd Det., 3rd Herd. Goro Tyteroygatra translates as Lanzarote Base (formerly BAM Pto. del Carmen).

Magido 11/A has fresh paintwork applied courtesy of a visiting US Navy carrier. The roundels are of the modern type and vertical striping has been moved to the tail fin. 'FUERZA AÉREA CANARIA' has been stencilled below the cockpit (standard for Madigo with or, as in this cse, without tip tanks).

Magido 11/A carries no personal marks by order. Gua 3, 3 Hańa aircraft had previously worn a stylized Guayota (devil) on their noses along with the flight slogan Vacaguaré! ('I'd rather die!'). Note that this aircraft carries no wing guns. Spain had delivered the HA-1113s with 12.7mm Breda-SAFAT guns (ex-CR.32 Chirri). These old Italian machineguns would later be replaced by US Navy Colt M3 cannons similar to the Turbo-Buchón's original 20mm cannons.

The Magido served from late 1972 until 1983 in mixed units with the piston-engined Tabona ('Knife', armed versions of the North American SNJ). The SNJ-6 Palo used to train Magido pilots was augmented in 1978 by the arrival from Spain of a pair of HA-1112-T4L two-seat trainers. Beginning in 1982, remaining Magido were phased out of service in favour of the jet-powered Hispano Aviación Sunta ('Mace', aka HA-200 Saetta).
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: The Big Gimper April 16, 2012, 09:41:19 AM
Not a Dart engined one, but did someone say Turboprop Do-335?

([url]http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/melbsyd/335c3.jpg[/url])


I see you fixed the canopy Greg. Looks much better than the RW unit.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia April 16, 2012, 10:43:01 AM
Inspired by another of Upnorth's ideas http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=1215.msg15288#msg15288 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=1215.msg15288#msg15288)

A Nakajima Nauk Mk.IA torpedo bomber of the Fleet Air Arm. This particular Nauk, flown by Lt-Cdr MW Williamson of 815 Naval Air Squadron led the first wave of attack on Taranto, 11 Nov 1940. 'Nauk' is a dialect name for the Great Northern Diver but FAA Nakajima crews invariably referred to their mounts as 'Nutcrackers'.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin April 16, 2012, 11:05:47 AM
That looks so natural.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe April 16, 2012, 11:19:19 AM
So typically British, almost...
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Logan Hartke April 16, 2012, 11:22:04 AM
That looks great, apophenia.  The Kate always looks fantastic.  Best carrier-borne torpedo bomber in the world until the Avenger.  Heaven knows the FAA needed one!  One question, though, how can the prop be casting a shadow when it isn't there?

Cheers,

Logan
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Empty Handed April 16, 2012, 10:32:24 PM
Really enjoying these Japanese aircraft in British markings. Keep 'em coming!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: upnorth April 17, 2012, 03:45:30 AM
I don't know how you guys feel, but I think an FAA Rufe would go down well right about now.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Silver Fox April 17, 2012, 04:18:39 AM
Now... why do I think that Herr Kondor is not going to appreciate an FAA Rufe?  ;D
 
Not as much as I would appreciate one anyway!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia April 17, 2012, 01:42:57 PM
I don't know how you guys feel, but I think an FAA Rufe would go down well right about now.

Mitsubishi fighters entered British service with two models -- the Merganser floatplane and the Murrelet carrier fighter. Mergansers and early Murrelets were both powered by Bristol Taurus radials. After 1943, the Japanese felt able to export Sakae radials (beginning with the Murrelet Mk.IV).

First is Mitsubishi Merganser Mk.IA of 702 Sqn. aboard HMS Asturias in 1941. At that time, HMS Asturias was on convoy escort duties in the North Atlantic where the ship's Mergansers did useful work chasing off shadowing Kondors.

Second is a Mitsubishi Murrelet Mk.II flown by Sub-Lt Peter Hutton from 801 NAS off HMS Victorious during Operation Pedestal. On 12 Aug 42 Sub-Lt Hutton downed an Re.2001, the following morning he shot down a recce Ju-88 and shared a score on another.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe April 17, 2012, 01:58:27 PM
The Merganser success cured the failure of the float-Spitfire, I have heard of that. Thanks to provide the very first picture ever! (this was top top secret till yesterday)...
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: AXOR April 17, 2012, 05:11:11 PM
Well those British Zero's looks quite natural!
Lovely  :-*

Alex
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin April 17, 2012, 06:57:30 PM
Weren't they built under licence in a Scotish factory?
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Logan Hartke April 17, 2012, 07:03:17 PM
Yeah, those look lovely.

Cheers,

Logan
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: upnorth April 17, 2012, 08:33:45 PM
Wow! Love the Merganser.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: The Big Gimper April 17, 2012, 09:11:13 PM
Weren't they built under licence in a Scotish factory?

They were built in Canada by Canadian Car and Foundry (CCF) along side the Hurricanes .  ;D
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia April 21, 2012, 09:52:37 AM
They were built in Canada by Canadian Car and Foundry (CCF) along side the Hurricanes .  ;D

Not in my Alti-verse ... CanCar built Airacobras!  ;D

Logan: Bamboo stealth blades -- they just couldn't figure out how to get around the shadows!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia April 21, 2012, 09:55:07 AM
The Kawasaki Kestrel was unique in serving with the RAF but not operationally with the Japanese. The IJAAF tested a prototype but quickly rejected the fighter when its Hiro Type 00 inverted V12 engine failed repeatedly. Kawasaki then redesigned the Type 3 for its own Ha-38 engine, a licenced Hispano-Suiza 12Y. A small batch of Ha-38 powered aircraft were trialled by the IJAAF as their Army Type 3 Fighter but no orders followed.

Kawasaki offered their fighter to Britain but the RAF requested an alternative engine, the US Allison V-1710. This was taken into service as the Kawasaki Kestrel Mk.I fighter and was primarily issued to Army-Cooperation squadrons. The Kestrel became famous with No.112 (F) Squadron in the Western Desert but soon faded in both fighter and Army-Cooperation roles as Hurricanes and Spitfires became more available.

Experiments in the camera-equipped fighter-recce role were successful enough to warrant a switch in production. The Mk.II was the last fighter version before the Kestrel PR Mk.III tactical reconnaissance variant began deliveries. While successful at low-altitude recce in the MTO, the RAF needed higher-altitude aircraft to operate over North-Western Europe. This led to the Merlin-engined Kestrel PR Mk.X series.

The Kestrel PR Mk.X was powered by a Merlin 45 which improved altitude performance. The Mk.XI introduced a pressure cabin and Merlin 47. A bigger boost came with the PR Mk.XII with its 2-speed Merlin 64. Unlike the Allison-engined PR Kestrels, most Mk.X series aircraft were unarmed. Some Kestrels with oblique cameras were given a wing-gun armament of four 0.5" Brownings. These tactical recce aircraft were given 'A' suffixes as PR Mk.XA and PR Mk.XIIA.

The Kestrel PR Mk.XII and pressurized PR Mk.XIII were the most capable of PR Kestrels whose performance was not eclipsed until the introduction of the high-altitude PR Spitfires.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin April 21, 2012, 10:01:11 AM
Winner!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe April 21, 2012, 11:05:06 AM
Thanks for your Ki-61 derivatives, still enriching the family (together with the Ki-60, Ki-100, Ki-61-II)... :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Empty Handed April 23, 2012, 04:43:55 AM
The Kestrel PR.XII is gorgeous!!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia April 24, 2012, 04:58:25 AM
Thanks lads. Now, for Greg, an ex-US 'Warthog' turned over to the Afghans ...
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin April 24, 2012, 05:30:45 AM
Winner!!!

Thanks.  I was imagining the other day what such a beast would look like if the USAF gave the Afghans some Warthogs for CAS/COIN missions.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Brian da Basher April 25, 2012, 04:36:31 AM
That Afghan A-10 is brilliant, apophenia!

Your British "imports" a page back are fantastic too!

Brian da Basher
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin April 25, 2012, 04:43:31 AM
Given the failed attempt to gain Sierra Nevada/Embraer EMB-314/A-29 Super Tucanos under the USAF's Light Air Support (LAS) programme (still think it was the best choice), one could quite easily imagine an option being put forward to transfer something like a dozen A-10Cs to the Afghans rather then to bring them home...
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia April 25, 2012, 11:03:36 AM
Thanks Brian ... but all credit for the Afghan A-10s goes to Greg  ;)

Greg: Not sure what the glitch was with LAS -- should've been a no-brainer  :P

I've modified the first image into a A-10C (and decided she should have arabic serials from the outset). Here are two more ...

The Fairchild Republic A-10Aa is a refurbished Thunderbolt II airframe (taken from AMARG, Davis-Monthan AFB, AZ) for the Afghan Air Force to make up attrition of ex-USAF A-10Cs. Known as 'Breshna' (Lightning) to the AAF, ANA troops dubbed them 'Toptshi' ('Gunner') or 'Khar' ('Donkey', because they do the heavy hauling. The Aero L-39 is the 'Khargóttey' or 'Little Ass').

The upper aircraft, 143, is a Gardez-based 'Breshna' supporting the ANA's 203rd Corps out of the appropriately-named Camp Thunder. This aircraft wears the locally-applied 'Khost-Gardez' camouflage scheme, lo-viz roundels, and both Roman and Arabic serials.

The lower A-10Aa sports the 'Kandahar' scheme of a KAF-based aircraft flying in support of the 205th Corps ANA. 'Breshna' 156 carries FAB-500 'dumb' bombs outboard with KAB-500L guided bombs inboard (with their associated KAB-Kr UPK acquisition pod).
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe April 25, 2012, 11:44:55 AM
It seems the major language of Afghanistan is Pashto rather than Arabic, would you write a Pashto version? ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin April 25, 2012, 12:45:00 PM
Soooo...tempted get another A-10 kit....but where to get Afghan decals?
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Scooterman April 25, 2012, 09:26:53 PM
Soooo...tempted get another A-10 kit....but where to get Afghan decals?

Simples!  I make you a set!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Doom! April 25, 2012, 11:59:12 PM
Very cool! Great minds ;) 
(http://www.doomisland2.com/images/profiles/afghan_A-10.jpg)
 
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: arc3371 April 26, 2012, 03:16:49 AM
Looks like I missed a many graet aircraft the HA-1113 is superb
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin April 26, 2012, 03:48:25 AM
Aarrgghhh...their ganging up on me! :o
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia April 26, 2012, 08:33:51 AM
Thanks arc' ... I was amazed at how easily the HA-200 canopy bits slid into place on the '109 fuselage.

Doom!: Very nice! Especially like the camouflage's balance and the flag on the tail (I never thought of that).

I considered putting the roundels in the USAF positions but all AAF aircraft seem to put them on the vertical tail. The Warthog's slime lights rules that out and I ended up with them on the nacelles instead.

Tophe: 'Arabic' is something of a misnomer. But that script is used in both Pashto and Dari ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Brian da Basher April 27, 2012, 04:25:20 AM
I like how the markings kind of "blend in" with the camo on those A-10s, apophenia. That effect makes them look like they've seen action to my eye. Great work!

And Doom, your A-10 is a show-stopper too! I like the flag on the tail!

Brian da Basher
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia April 27, 2012, 06:14:11 AM
Thanks Brian. I wanted them to look fairly newly re-painted but 'lived in'. I suspect that Kandahar 'rock flour' would make an excellent paint stripper  ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia April 29, 2012, 11:25:30 AM
Musings elsewhere about C-27s and Hercules got me thinking about the Lockheed L-400 again. To my mind, keeping the standard Herc fuselage made the L-400 proposal too big (especially to compete with the Spartan in the military market.

So, here's an updated L-400 with shorter fuselage and (for the civvie market, at least) twin PW150As.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin April 29, 2012, 12:56:37 PM
Cute...
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia May 01, 2012, 08:34:38 AM
Griffon-powered Mustangs came up elsewhere. So, here is the P-51G ...

The North American XP-51G were converted XP-51Fs with British Merlin 145Ms driving 5-bladed propellers. In November 1944, the second XP-51G was re-engined with a Rolls-Royce Griffon 65 with Rotol 5-blade prop.

The USAAF decided that Packard Merlin-engined P-51Hs would be built at Inglewood, while the P-51G would be built at Dallas. 'Shimmy VI' is a P-51G-2NT flown by Col CL Sluder, commander of the 325th Fighter Group in Germany in June 1945.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: upnorth May 02, 2012, 03:03:47 AM
That's very nice.

Very few things can't be improved with a contra-prop.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia May 05, 2012, 07:38:21 AM
A HAL-IAI Alkira of 30 Squadron, RAAF. Formerly a base support unit, 30 Sqn was stood up to full fighter squadron status with the arrival of the Alkira. Moving from East Sale to RAAF Base Darwin, 30 Sqn operate in the light strike fighter role as well as Lead-In Fighter Training (augmenting the RAAF's Hawk 127 LIF).

The HAL-IAI LCA was chosen, in part, for its engine commonality with the RAAF's F-18F Super Hornet. An Aboriginal word, Alkira ('bright') reflects the original users' name 'brilliance' (Tejas for the Indian Air Force, Havraká for the Israeli Defence Force).
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin May 05, 2012, 08:51:43 AM
Although I personally don't care for the Tejas, you do do nice artworks. :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia May 07, 2012, 11:02:46 AM
The Breda Ba.165 Asso ... an updated Ba.65 with a mid-mounted 880 hp Isotta-Fraschini Asso XI.RC RC2C.15 liquid-cooled V12 driving an extension shaft. The hollow nose-reduction gear allowed for a third 12.7mm Breda-SAFAT machinegun on the centreline.

[ Based on a Ba.65 A80 of 159a Squadriglia by JJ Boucher ]
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Logan Hartke May 07, 2012, 11:34:21 AM
That is gorgeous, apophenia.  When's the model coming out to go with the box art?  :D

Cheers,

Logan
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin May 07, 2012, 03:16:19 PM
Oh you could get people like that!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin May 07, 2012, 03:17:32 PM
That is gorgeous, apophenia.  When's the model coming out to go with the box art?  :D

Cheers,

Logan

Keep that in mind for next year's April Fool's GB...some fake box art jobs could really get some people!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: arc3371 May 07, 2012, 04:49:20 PM
The Ba165 Asso is tasty indeed
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin May 07, 2012, 05:23:17 PM
 :icon_bofh:The more I look at that last one, the more it looks like a RR Griffon engine from a Shak or Lincoln!  Now that would be impressive!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Silver Fox May 08, 2012, 05:11:15 AM
WOW!
 
That is just begging for a sharkmouth. :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia May 08, 2012, 10:16:34 AM
Thanks guys. I've got a sideview in the works ... but got distracted by AGRA's RAAF Twin Mustangs  ;)
http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=1329.msg17429#msg17429 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=1329.msg17429#msg17429)

:icon_bofh:The more I look at that last one, the more it looks like a RR Griffon engine from a Shak or Lincoln!  Now that would be impressive!


Indeed. The Achilles Heel of all pre-WWII Italian aircraft was available engine power. The Griffon would've been a treat but those humongous IF W18s were the most powerful they had. I figured a V12 was more practical option even if it did put out less oomph.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Empty Handed May 08, 2012, 08:36:08 PM
Love the Twin 'stang!

Always liked the look of the Asso, with the annular radiator on the Cant Z.501 in particular. Good excuse to have some annular radiator Macchi/Fiat/Reggiane late-war fighters to match those Fw-190D-9s wouldn't you say?!!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia May 09, 2012, 07:23:34 AM
Thanks EH. Here's another Twin Mustang ...
http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=1329.msg17523#msg17523 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=1329.msg17523#msg17523)

I like the look of the Asso XI on the Gabbiano too. It is fun to imagine Regia Aeronautica fighters with truly successful IF V12s  ;D
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia May 09, 2012, 11:53:10 AM
I-FORT was converted to Ba.65ter standard with the installation of a 880 hp Isotta-Fraschini Asso XI V12 engine. The private-venture Ba.65ter was tested by the Regia Aeronautica but the Ministero dell'Aeronautica concluded that the 1000 hp Fiat A.80 RC.41 18-cylinder radial engined version would offer superior performance.

Without an RA order, the Ba.65ter became a development airframe for Breda's Ba.165 program, eventually being re-engined with a more powerful 960 hp I-F Asso XI RC.40.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Logan Hartke May 09, 2012, 12:04:17 PM
It definitely has a different look this way.  Not bad, though.

Cheers,

Logan
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia May 09, 2012, 12:12:11 PM
Yep, portly curves and odd facets. Nobody would ever call the Ba.65 a beauty  ;D
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Litvyak May 09, 2012, 12:18:22 PM
For whatever reason, I-FORT there just screams "Luigi" at me...
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia May 10, 2012, 11:21:56 AM
There were two 'Marittima' derivatives of the Breda Ba.65 for the Regia Marina. The first was the Ba.65 Catapultabile intended for launch from the 'catapulte Gagnotto' aboard RN Giuseppe Miraglia. Tests were successful but a policy decision dictated floatplanes and escort fighters only for this tender.

The second maritime Breda was the Ba.65 ISP shipboard divebomber. This type introduced the more powerful Piaggio P.XI RC.40 radial engine. Some airframe strengthening was also required to meet the ISP's intended role as shipboard divebomber (bombardiere da picchiata). No divebrakes were fitted the Ba.65 ISP was to lower its landing gear and use the undercarriage fairings to slow its dive.

Work had been ordered on the aircraft carrier RN Sparviero (the liner Augustus rebuilt) in late 1938. Sparviero was to be a least-mod conversion replacing 1932 plans for a keel-up carrier and filling in until the more extensively modified liner Roma could be delivered as the carrier Aquila.

Despite its limitations are a divebomber, all 'Serie 0' Ba.65 ISPs were embarked for the maiden voyage of the RN Sparviero. However, as is well know, Sparviero was sunk by torpedos from a British submarine, HMS Proteus, in the Gulf of Taranto on the night of 21/22 March 1942. All Ba.65 ISPs and Re.2000 CIs aboard were lost when the Sparviero went down.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia May 10, 2012, 11:24:58 AM
What do these ones scream Litvyak?  ;D

Oh, BTW, I've mounted another CAC Twin Mustang (this time, a torpedo carrier) in AGRA's 'Opportunity Cost' story thread: http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=1329.msg17612#msg17612 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=1329.msg17612#msg17612)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin May 11, 2012, 03:00:56 AM
Me thinks I just got an excuse to buy a kit!!!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Litvyak May 11, 2012, 03:12:04 AM
What do these ones scream Litvyak?  ;D

Stiamo arrivando per voi, vaffanculi britanni!  ;D
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Empty Handed May 11, 2012, 08:21:28 PM
Lovely Bredas! The ISP looks much better without that anachronistic canopy framing.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia May 12, 2012, 09:49:12 AM
Thanks! EH: yes, worst ever canopy ... the open-cockpit Ba.64 looks svelte by comparison! As you could probably tell, I pinched the new canopy (along with the new cowling and prop) from a passing Re.2000  ;)

Stiamo arrivando per voi, vaffanculi britanni!  ;D

 ;D  All part of Royal Navy tradition ... along with rum and the lash.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia May 12, 2012, 09:56:59 AM
The Breda Ba.265 was an attempt to evolve the Ba.65 series into a twin-engined attack aircraft. Marketed as La Volpe, Breda saw the Ba.265 as a smaller companion to the new Ba.88 Lince. Unfortunately, the Ministerio del Aire preferred the Savoia-Marchetti SM.85 for the Regia Aeronautica.

The SM.85 used fewer strategic materials in its construction and its Piaggio radials were more reliable than La Volpe's twin Isotta Fraschini Delta R.C.35 I-DS (the SM.85 was also stressed to act as a divebomber). Breda sought permission to export the Ba.265 but this was denied until defects had been eliminated from the trouble-prone Ba.88 series.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Logan Hartke May 12, 2012, 10:56:13 AM
That's VERY neat looking.

Cheers,

Logan
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: raafif May 12, 2012, 11:51:53 AM
yes, nice - obviously Caproni had a hand in it too !
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Empty Handed May 12, 2012, 10:06:06 PM
Nice!!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe May 13, 2012, 03:11:59 AM
Griffon-powered Mustangs came up elsewhere. So, here is the P-51G ...
The North American XP-51G were converted XP-51Fs with British Merlin 145Ms driving 5-bladed propellers. In November 1944, the second XP-51G
Belated thanks for this one.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia May 13, 2012, 06:33:56 AM
yes, nice - obviously Caproni had a hand in it too !

Yep, the nose glazing was inspired by the Ca.311 and the cowling pinched directly from the Ca.313 prototype  ;)  And here's another Caproni-inspired Breda development ...

The Ba.64 Idro was intended as a replacement for the IMAM Ro.43 maritime reconnaissance biplane. The Ba.64I prototype was tested at the Regia Aeronautica's Centro Sperimentale at Guidonia but was found wanting.

Guidonia staff concluded that the Ba.64I's floats were disporportionately large while their cantilever mounting struts were too short (resulting in the propeller tips hitting the tops of waves in choppy water). Breda recommended a redesign of the float gear and substitution of the metal-skinned Ba.65 airframe. This proposal was rejected by the Ministerio del Aire.

The prototype Ba.65I was transferred from the Centro Sperimentale to the 3a Squadriglia of the Scuola Osservazione Marittima at Orbetello before being passed on to the RA's Scuola Idrovolanti at Portorose. The sole Ba.65I ended its days as an instructional airframe.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Daryl J. May 13, 2012, 06:36:23 AM
That's first rate!   :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia May 13, 2012, 06:45:40 AM
Cheers Daryl. I like the off-beat look of a lot of Breda designs but, to make a whif plausible, the outcome has to be a bit of a dog  ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia May 13, 2012, 09:01:28 AM
In 1938, the Ministerio del Aire rejected Breda's proposal for a Ba.65 floatplane derivative and denied export permission. Nonetheless, design work on a Ba.65 floatplane continued in secret at the Milan factory. The result was the Ba.65 Idro concept which incorporated the tail surfaces of the Breda's twin-engined Ba.88 Lince.

In theory, the Ba.65 Idro was to replace the unsatisfactory Ba.64I prototype. In reality, the Ba.65 Idro represented part of Breda's export ambitions for the Ba.65 and Ba.88 series. The Ba.65 Idro was to be offered with the same range of engines as other Ba.65s but an advanced version would feature the 1,000 hp Piaggio P.XI RC.40 radial from the Ba.88.

Rather than submit the Ba.65 Idro to the Regia Aeronautica, Breda hope to gain permission from the Ministerio del Aire to enter the design in a Danish 2-seat floatplane competiton. The Ba.65 Idro (Dan) would be offered with 900 hp Isotta-Fraschini K 14s and open rear gun position or 1,000 hp Piaggio P.XI with an enclosed Breda M turret for rear defence.

In the end, the Ministerio del Aire again denied export permission and insisted upon Breda focusing on correcting defects in the Ba.88 design for the Regia Aeronautica. As a result, Breda plans for float versions of the Ba.65 and Ba.88 never got past the drawing board.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe May 18, 2012, 12:59:02 AM
Griffon-powered Mustangs came up elsewhere. So, here is the P-51G ...
The North American XP-51G were converted XP-51Fs with British Merlin 145Ms driving 5-bladed propellers. In November 1944, the second XP-51G
Belated thanks for this one.
At last, I made what I dreamed of from your one, thanks!
(http://www.kristofmeunier.fr/r_P-51TR6_azzzzw.JPG)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia May 19, 2012, 10:11:00 AM
Thanks Tophe. Love your P-51GB -- I guess the P-51BG would have to radial-engined and have the cockpit moved back to the base of the fin  ;D
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe May 19, 2012, 01:05:20 PM
Thanks Tophe. Love your P-51GB -- I guess the P-51BG would have to radial-engined and have the cockpit moved back to the base of the fin  ;D
Thanks Apophenia, I love your idea.
(http://www.kristofmeunier.fr/r_P-51TR6_bzzzza.JPG)
GBR stands for both (best for) Great BRitain and Griffon P-51B turned Radial...
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia May 20, 2012, 05:50:35 AM
He he, love it Tophe! And the belly fairing is now for the turbocharger  :)
: Red Australia
: apophenia June 04, 2012, 06:16:11 AM
Somebody was working on a Red Australia, prompting me to post a pair of oldies.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: AXOR June 04, 2012, 06:46:09 AM
Me likey !!!

Alex
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe June 04, 2012, 10:27:08 AM
Oldies? I did not remember these ones, thanks for posting! :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Empty Handed June 05, 2012, 06:34:43 AM
I remember the Ca-15s. Still an outstanding idea!
: Remember Eureka!
: apophenia June 05, 2012, 09:56:56 AM
Thanks guys. Tophe, those were done for a scenario written up by rickshaw (on that 'other' discussion group). He then asked me to do profiles for "Remember Eureka!", a storyline where the Australian states are independent for the first half of the 20th Century.

Here's the first of the Remember Eureka! sequence. I'm going to start with Western Australia and move West to East. [Note that, because WA and New South Wales shared no border, they were both able to use RAF-style roundels.]
: Remember Eureka!
: apophenia June 05, 2012, 09:58:59 AM
Some proposals to Western Australia that didn't fly (literally in a few cases)...
: Remember Eureka!
: apophenia June 05, 2012, 10:00:37 AM
Some operational Fairey types of the Royal Western Australian Air Force ...
: Remember Eureka!
: apophenia June 05, 2012, 10:02:18 AM
The last of the Western Australia ones includes a post-WWII Tassie Mustang.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe June 05, 2012, 12:00:19 PM
Thanks for this new batch. My very favourite is the Fairey Falcon :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia June 06, 2012, 04:44:23 AM
Thanks Tophe. My Falcon was, of course, based on Fairey's twin-Merlin P.27/32 proposal but with a more Battle-ish canopy. I forgot to mention that rickshaw's storyline is available here: http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=183013 (http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=183013)

Here's some Central Australian Republic (South Australia) aircraft starting with Heinkel 51 fighters and local He-70 derivatives - the He-170Fau and He-270Au.
: Remember Eureka!
: apophenia June 06, 2012, 04:49:47 AM
Next up are Central Australian Republic Heinkel 100 fighters and proposed He-100 replacements. For the latter, top is the Heinkel Adelaide HA-101, a Merlin-powered He-100 development. Below is the 'Brumby' which was to be licenced P-51D with an improved, Holden-built DB601 engine.
: Remember Eureka!
: apophenia June 06, 2012, 04:53:25 AM
Heinkel Adelaide's successful He-100 replacement candidate was a twin-jet adaptation, the HA-110. The 'Glendambo Gallah' was a late-model HA-110 with the one-piece improved sliding canopy.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: ChernayaAkula June 06, 2012, 06:27:44 AM
Bought a He 51 on a whim (because it was cheap  >:D) some day and didn't know what to do with it. Now I know! (http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m309/ChernayaAkula/Emoticons/70.gif)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe June 06, 2012, 12:46:43 PM
I love Brumby and He-110
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: AXOR June 06, 2012, 04:38:21 PM
Totally awesome !!!
I like ''EMU camo'' on HE-100 white 19 (http://freesmileyface.net/smiley/respect/respect-048.gif)

Alex
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia June 07, 2012, 07:04:28 AM
Thanks lads. Mustn't forget the CAR bombers. Here's the locally-built Fokker G-1D and Dornier Do-217Eau. Both types were powered by BMW 801 radials.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia June 07, 2012, 07:08:37 AM
Out of sequence but the LFG D.VI shows the first version of the CARAF roundel. As mentioned before, both Western Australia and the Dominion of Australia (NSW & QLD) used RAF-style roundels.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia June 07, 2012, 07:19:19 AM
And now for some Republic of Victoria Air Force types. Lasco or the Larkin Aircraft Supply Company of Fisherman's Bend, Melbourne, built or designed a number of aircraft for the RVAF.

The Lasco Lascoter was a real, 1929 6-seat transport but, of course, never flew in RVAF markings ;) The whif Lasco Lapwing was 1938 intermediate trainer (for RVAF monoplane familiarization) based on the Lark II biplane.

As planned, the Lapwing was intended as a P-26 lead-in trainer powered by a 6-cyl engine. This was never built. Nor was the biplane Lark III, another attempt at increasing power.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia June 07, 2012, 07:30:19 AM
When the Republic of Victoria Air Force called for a Boeing Peashooter replacement fighter, Lasco submitted the LP-MP Lares based on the Fokker D.XXI. Insisting on a retractable undercarriage, the RVAF rejected the Lares. Lasco devised a retractable gear for the Lares but it was too late, the RVAF had selected the Curtiss 75A.

Lasco further developed the Lares for submission to China. The LP-MPC featured a retractable gear and a monocoque wooden rear fuselage. This too was rejected, China preferring a familiar rival -- the Curtiss 75 (ironically with a fixed undercarriage).

The comparion Lares II project was a light fighter. The LP-LWF was proposed in two variants: a fixed-gear fighter-trainer and retractable-gear light fighter. The RVAF had a requirement not neither type and the Lares II was rejected by the Republic of China as well.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia June 07, 2012, 07:36:20 AM
On the slim chance that whif unbuilt projects interests anyone, here's a list of Lasco projects:

Lasco Liner - 12-passenger transport, enlarged development of Lascondor.

Lasco Lapwing (original) - as planned for P-26 lead-in training with 200hp Menasco 6-cyl.

Lasco Lark III - planned Lark II replacement combining Lapwing fuselage with Lark wings.

Lasco Learner - parasol-monoplane crew-trainer for RVAF Douglas B-31 bomber.

Lasco Lascar - maritime reconnaissance-bomber floatplane (updated Fokker T.IVa).

Lasco Laputan - transport floatplane for Melbourne-Tasmania route (revised Lascar)

Lasco Lares (original) - fighter monoplane for RVAF contest (based on Fokker D.XXI).

Lasco Lares (revised) - updated fighter monoplane for RVAF (or export market).

Lasco Llama - twin-engined light transport (similar to Koolhoven FK.50A).

Lasco LittleHawk - 2-seat trainer for Curtiss 75A fighter (based on Fokker D.XXI).

Lasco Lares II - Menasco Privateer-powered lightweight fighter/trainer (fixed gear).

Lasco Lares II (revised) - updated fighter/trainer for the export market (retract. u/c).

Lasco Lambda - twin Privateer-powered A-17 replacement (sim. to French Hanriot H-220).

Lasco Lasso - Allison V-1710-powered fighter (enlarged version of the final Lares II).

Lasco Lariat - Hispano-Suiza HS.12Y-powered export version of the Lasso fighter project.
_____________________________
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe June 07, 2012, 11:40:42 AM
Wow!
My favourite of this batch is the Lares II! :-*
: Republic of Tasmania
: apophenia June 08, 2012, 06:32:54 AM
Thanks Tophe. I have a weak spot for lightweight aircraft too.

The Republic of Tasmania Air Corps got many of its aircraft as surplus from its Victorian neighbour. An example is this ex-RVAF Curtiss Hawk 75A-3 of VF-4 at Wynyard in 1942. This aircraft had badly-faded RVAF Red-Earth and Gum-Green camouflage with 'Tasman Triangles' applied.

The extensive white 'Allied' recognition paint was to avoid red RTAC roundels being mistaken for Japanese hinomaru. Following RVAF practice, a single vertical stripe denotes 'A' Flight leader but the RTAC applied this stripe to the rudder rather than to the rear fuselage.

An exception to Victorian origins is the ex-USN Northrop BT of VB-9 (A Flight), Wynyard, 1942. This aircraft has simply had recognition marks and RTAC 'Triangles' applied over USN camouflage. The second aircraft (also of A Flight) is out of Launceston in 1943. This BT has been re-sprayed in a then contemporary three-tone Dauntless scheme by US Navy personnel when their carrier visited Hobart for minor refitting. Red 'Tasman Triangles' have been replaced by US-inspired insignia (a blue RTAC triangle on a US-style circle-and-bar background).
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia June 09, 2012, 10:55:44 AM
Back to the Republic of Victoria which sourced most of its military aircraft from the US. Here's a pair of wartime fighter aircraft...

The Curtiss Hawk 87 replaced the Hawk 75As. The 'Geelong Goer' is in the original RAF-style camouflage as supplied by Curtiss. 'Shark Bait' has been oversprayed with 'Foliage Green'.

The Hawk 87s, in turn, were replaced by North American Mustangs. The NA106 shows the standard scheme with white recognition paint over natural metal. 'The Moorabool Mongrel' has the recognition stripes applied for the invasion of the Japanese Home Islands.

The Mustang continued in Victorian service after WWII by which time the RVAF had adopted USAAF/USAF designations. The F-51D wears the standard post-war RVAF scheme for fighters. The F-51K wears commemorative markings based on that 'Golden Wings' scheme.

A more dramatic commemorative scheme were the markings adopted by RVAF Reserve Squadrons for the centenary of the Eureka Stockade uprising. Although a standardized scheme, each Mustang carried a distinct quote or slogan.
: Remember Eureka!
: apophenia June 09, 2012, 10:58:30 AM

The Dominion of Australia consisted of New South Wales and Queensland. The first fighter designed to an RAAF specification was Hawker's Mercury Fury. These biplanes began being replaced by Hurricanes in early 1939.

While awaiting delivery of Beauforts, the RAAF adapted some of its Blenheims as torpedo bombers. The Blenheim Mk.IIT had its turret removed to save weight and reduce drag. 'Scare guns' were installed in each nacelle tail (upper scrap view) and gunner provided with a periscope. The lower scrap view shows the single Blenheim Mk.IIT modified as a trials aircraft for the Commonwealth CA4's remote-controlled turret development.

The Blenheim was replaced in both bomber and torpedo roles by locally-built Beauforts which were joined by Mosquitos. The appearance of DHA Mosquitos changed little throughout the war. As the FB.40 shows expanding patches of recognition white. This was later formalized (as on the B.42) before invasion stripes were added for Operation Coronet.

The standard late-WWII fighter for most Australian air forces was the Mustang. The Mustang shown was the personal mount of Clive Caldwell during Operation Coronet.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Empty Handed June 09, 2012, 09:00:24 PM
The alternate Australia profiles are really great!  :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: raafif June 10, 2012, 06:48:33 AM
I was really waiting for those Eureka Mustangs again .... not that I haven't got them on my hard-drive anyhow ----- simply one of the best four P-51 schemes that I MUST build :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia June 10, 2012, 12:01:31 PM
Thanks guys. The Eureka centennial Mustangs were my favs too raafif  ;)

Here's the last batch -- post-union CAAF and CAN aircraft. And just for you raafif, the 150 year scheme  ;D
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Empty Handed June 10, 2012, 07:55:20 PM
^ Nice! I think my favs have to be the Fairey Gordon and S.9/30 (although the Tasman BTs are up there too!).
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia June 13, 2012, 07:17:38 AM
Thanks EH, you're a man after my own heart -- anyone who can see the beauty in the Gordon is a friend of mine!  ;D

I was playing with the Breda Ba.88 Lince is see if anything could be salvaged. Here's the Ba.88N single-seat night raider.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Acree June 13, 2012, 09:24:15 AM
Nice job on the Ba 88N!  I love the quirky 30s and 40s stuff!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia June 13, 2012, 09:35:12 AM
Thanks Acree. I'm keen on that quirky '30/'40s stuff too  ;)

This next one was prompted by looking at a 'parts shot' of the MPM kit. That got me wondering what you would end up with if the Ba.88's fuselage was used upsidedown. As it turns out, still rather dumpy  :P
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Litvyak June 13, 2012, 10:17:15 AM
The Italians are weird.

They make absolutely gorgeous cars and the people generally aren't hard to look at, but their trains and airplanes are, with a few exceptions, pretty awful looking. :P
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Cliffy B June 13, 2012, 10:22:12 AM
The Italians are weird.

They make absolutely gorgeous cars and the people generally aren't hard to look at, but their trains and airplanes are, with a few exceptions, pretty awful looking. :P

Add ships to the gorgeous side.  They had some of the most elegant capital ships of the early 20th century hands down!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe June 13, 2012, 12:07:15 PM
Wow! :-*
(this upside-down one is going well with the Re-2005 and G-55 and Mc-202 Italian beauties according to me)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: elmayerle June 13, 2012, 12:12:06 PM
My own thinking is that Italian airframes with German engines produced some elegant aircraft: MC-202/205/206/207, G.50V (well, an elegant adaptation), G.55, G.56, and Re2001, 2005, and 2006.  For that matter, the proposed G.54 is a most attractive aircraft.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Empty Handed June 13, 2012, 08:16:21 PM
Some of their radial engined offerings had style too. The IMAM Ro.43 & 44, Cant Z.1018 and the Savoia-Marchetti SM.84 come to mind. I'd also echo that the Macchi/Fiat/Reggiane fighters are certainly lookers. We won't mention the Stipa!  ;)

I'm glad I'm not the only one who occasionally inverts the fuselage to see what it would look like!  :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe June 13, 2012, 11:24:40 PM
I'm glad I'm not the only one who occasionally inverts the fuselage to see what it would look like!  :)
Don't forget our Brian da Basher that built a "Latecočre" from an inverted Heinkel 219... He nicely gave it to me, and I am proud of it.
Apophenia is making this great tradition live again...
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin June 14, 2012, 02:23:28 AM
I have a plan to do a Ba88 with either BMW801s or DB605s
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia June 14, 2012, 08:33:50 AM
... and the people generally aren't hard to look at ...

That's because all the homely Italians have been detailed to queue-jump at the Poste restante  ;)

I have a plan to do a Ba88 with either BMW801s or DB605s

DB605 seems the most realistic (from an availability pov). I wonder, do any of the Do-217 kits come with both radial and inline cowlings? I know that's a DB603 but that firewall gives you a starting point for going from radial to inline.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin June 14, 2012, 06:36:27 PM
Lovely!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Empty Handed June 14, 2012, 06:57:27 PM
The increased length with the DB engine makes the 88 far less tubby looking!  :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia June 18, 2012, 11:51:26 AM
Thanks guys! Inspired by upnorth's Stealing the Stuka
http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=1501.msg19988#msg19988 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=1501.msg19988#msg19988)

Proyecto NAAA (Nuevo Avión Agrícola de Argentina) evolved the Ju-87 design into a large agricultural aircraft. Intended to be built by the civilian side of FMA, Industrias Aeronáuticas y Mecánicas del Estado, neither variation on the P.1 Tucumán was of interest to authorities.

Somewhat more ambitious was the feederliner Proyecto NALA (Nuevo Avión Ligero Argentino). At an early stage both liquid-cooled and air-cooled engines were proposed. The Hispano-powered P.2 Chubut was thought most promising by the former Junkers designers but the P.2A Chaco had the advantage of engine commonality with FMA's AeMB.2.

Lacking encouragement, Proyecto NALA evolved into a lighter 2-seat design with refined wing structure but that is another story ...
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: upnorth June 18, 2012, 01:08:46 PM
Tremendous stuff!

It might be just me, but the P.2A Chaco has a bit of a Northrop Alpha look to it.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Acree June 18, 2012, 01:38:04 PM
Very cool!  I love taking the familiar (and not-so-familiar) and making variations and extrapolations from them.  Great job.  I especially like the P.2A.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia June 20, 2012, 07:31:41 AM
Thanks guys. Northrop's Alpha was definitely an influence (I was trying to avoid anything that looked like the Junkers Ju-60 and Ju-160.

Now, riding on Acree's coat tails ...  ;)
http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=1494.msg20357#msg20357 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=1494.msg20357#msg20357)

Visitors to Farallon are able to view a fully-restored Capstan Wedell 44P Wasp fighter at the Farallonian Museum of Technology. The Wasp is resplendant in the markings of the Farallonian Air Force's 3rd Fighter Squadron circa 1942.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Acree June 20, 2012, 07:53:32 AM
WOW!!! I am both humbled and honored.  AWESOME job Apophenia!  You took a drawing which I thought was "pretty good" and turned it into something truly AMAZING.  Thanks!

Chuck
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Litvyak June 20, 2012, 08:10:03 AM
Apophenia never ceases to amaze! :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia June 21, 2012, 11:19:20 AM
Ah shucks ... thanks folks  :))

For those who have ever wondered at the Capstan Wasp's bumpy cowling, a glance at the first demonstrator prototype is revealing. With its larger-diameter, smoother cowling, visibility from the cockpit of the first Wedell-Williams Model 44P demonstrator was negligible. A scanty view between rocker-covers on the service Wasp fighter was better than no view at all!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Acree June 21, 2012, 01:14:37 PM
AND, check out that snazzy FAF uniform worn by Lance Margon (who looks amazingly like Col. Roscoe Turner in this photo  :D).
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia June 22, 2012, 06:11:39 AM
AND, check out that snazzy FAF uniform worn by Lance Margon (who looks amazingly like Col. Roscoe Turner in this photo  :D).

But Lance Margon didn't have a mustache and Roscoe Turner did have a mustache! (said in best 'Superman doesn't wear glasses' voice)  :))
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia June 22, 2012, 06:13:37 AM
Back to Litvyak's AltBC concept ...

As part of the post-WWI 'Imperial Gift', British Columbia received a batch of Parnall-built Hamble Baby biplanes (in the N2000-N2039 range). In theory, the BC Air Force (RBCAF after 1922) operated the Hamble Baby on floats as a coastal defence fighter. In reality, both float version and Hamble Baby Converts on wheels only acted as fighter trainers.

With the establishment of British Columbia naval aviation in 1921, the RBCN's Fleet Air Arm required a proper float fighter. As the RBCAF also required a modern fighter to replace its WWI 'left-overs', government decided to pursue a single type to satisfy both service's requirements.

After testing both the Fairey Flycatcher and third prototype Parnall Plover, a licence was purchased for a locally-built Plover. Boeing BC would undertake production but this was delayed while BC's rival services bickered over their engine choices. In the end, the Navy selected the heavier Bristol Jupiter while the RBCAF preferred the more compact Armstrong-Siddeley Jaguar.

A note on markings:

G-BYAF shows typical mid-'20s RBCAF markings. Along with the pale BC roundel of the period, RBCAF aircraft had rudder stripes and civilian style registration codes on the rear fuselage and lower wing. Plovers were aluminium-doped with black anti-glare panels, struts, and landing gear.

G-BYNP is a Jupiter-engined RBCN Fleet Air Arm Plover. Naval Plovers lacked rudder stripes (although stripes were applied to aircraft with spinners). Note that individual airframe details were recorded beneath the fin 'RBCN' but FAA aircraft lacked RBCAF-style specification blocks on the fuselage.

The Plover Mk.IN (for 'Naval') could operate on wheels or floats. For recording purposes, (F) indicated aircraft mounted on the Hoffar wooden float gear.

BTW: these sideviews are based on art by Zygmunt Szeremeta of Choroszy Modelbud. http://www.modelbud.pl/en_US/p/A167-Parnall-Plover-silver-series/492 (http://www.modelbud.pl/en_US/p/A167-Parnall-Plover-silver-series/492)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Litvyak June 22, 2012, 07:59:18 AM
Superb! The float-equipped one looks particularly fetching.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia June 22, 2012, 11:45:01 AM
Thought you might like those  ;)

Now back to the design saga of  upnorth's Stealing the Stuka ...

While civilian aircraft designs based on the Ju-87 failed to gain favour with the IAME, attention returned to military derivatives, producing designs for the Fábrica Militar de Aviones.

The first was a straightforward torpedo-bomber type for the Comando de Aviación Naval, the FMA P.9 Tehuelche. This aircraft was to be powered by a 760 hp Hispano-Suiza 12Ybr and had interchangable wheel or Edo float undercarriage. The FMA P.9 was rejected by Armada planner for lacking the third crew member deemed necessary for a torpedo bomber.

Sensing another stone-walling, the former Junkers designs sought out the co-operation of younger, more open-minded COAN officers and pilots. Designed with input and critique from service officers, the conceptual replacement for the conventional FMA P.9 Tehuelche was radical in the extreme.

The FMA P.12 Yamana had its 860 hp Hispano-Suiza 12Ycr buried amidships with a propeller shaft running to the nose. To either side of the tube enclosing that shaft, sat the pilot and navigator. The new cockpit was lower than that of the Ju-87, allowing a semi-enclosed bomb-bay.

Behind its mid-mounted engine, the FMA P.12 Yamana would mount a SAMM power-operated turret with a defensive machinegun. The FMA P.12 Yamana was to have a retractable undercarriage but floats could be fitted as required. For the torpedo role, fore and aft fairings were removed to semi-enclose the weapon in flight.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Cliffy B June 22, 2012, 11:57:16 AM
A torpedo armed Stuka on floats???!!!  :o :o :o


Keep it up man!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe June 22, 2012, 12:20:23 PM
 :-* I love your P.12!
With its fin looking like a Mustang, could you invent a similar P-51? (someday)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia June 24, 2012, 06:12:39 AM
Nice idea Tophe!  I started work on a Mustang similar to the P.12 but somehow it kept crying out Navion to me. So, here's a civilian mid-engined Mustang derivative that turns into a jet-for-four.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin June 24, 2012, 06:15:44 AM
Wow!!!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Litvyak June 24, 2012, 06:45:07 AM
At first glance in the thumbnail, I thought the Jet Navion was a Fouga Magister of some sort.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Acree June 24, 2012, 07:25:08 AM
I've always had a thing for the Navion - wanted to own one for many years.  Love the Mustang-Navion.  I also like how you got shades of Buckeye in the Jet Navion.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: upnorth June 24, 2012, 08:14:08 AM
Wow! The floatplane Stuka is increadible!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe June 24, 2012, 08:54:09 AM
Wonderful! Your Navion and Jet-Navion are delicious! :-* :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: finsrin June 24, 2012, 09:08:10 AM
Saw a couple Navion at last weekend air show.  Also was a non-flyable T-37.
This is nice.  See them both in your drawings.   :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia June 25, 2012, 06:20:09 AM
Thanks folks. The RW Navion is waaay more practical than my variations ... but maybe slightly less fun  ;)

Litvyak: Close! I pinched the jet exhausts from an obliging MS.760 Paris.
: Stealing the Stuka
: apophenia June 25, 2012, 06:22:44 AM
More unbuilt designs from upnorth's Stealing the Stuka ...

Proyecto NATB-3/5 (Nuevo Avión Torpedero y Bombardero - Tipos 3 y 5)

When its mid-engined FMA P.12 Yamana design was rejected by the Comando de Aviación Naval as being too radical, the ex-Junkers team returned to their P.9 Tehuelche concept. Power was increased by using the 860 hp Hispano-Suiza 12Ycr but now mounted more conventionally in the nose.

Other than increased power, the P.9C (or 'NATB Tipo 3') was essentially similar to the P.9A (Tipo 1) Tehuelche. However, late in the design process, it was decided to improve control and stability by returning to the twin rudder arrangement of the original Junkers Ju 87 v1 prototype.

While COAN planners had come to terms with a twin-seat torpedo-bomber, there were now concerns as to whether P.9C defensive armament would be adequate. The ex-Junkers team returned to the drawing board once more and produced the P.9E (NATB Tipo 5).*

The FMA P.9E/Tipo 5 had its empennage rearranged to provide space for a remotely-controlled gun barbette in the tail. This barbette was to have 190° rotation and +85° elevation and -5° depression. Removing armament from the rear cockpit also provided more space for a navigation table.

The FMA P.9E/Tipo 5 was to be powered by a 920 hp Hispano-Suiza 12Y-29. Airframe cleanliness was improved through the use of cantilevered float struts. The engine coolant radiators were also incorporated into these struts resulting in a cleaner cowling and more clearance for ordnance.

[* The P.9D/Tipo 4 was a proposed wheeled version of the P.9C/Tipo 3.]
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe June 25, 2012, 12:42:36 PM
Nice idea Tophe!  I started work on a Mustang similar to the P.12 but somehow it kept crying out Navion to me. So, here's a civilian mid-engined Mustang derivative that turns into a jet-for-four.
Well, I tried also, getting a result somehow. Thanks again! :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Logan Hartke June 25, 2012, 11:27:18 PM
Those Navions are fantastic!

Cheers,

Logan
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin June 26, 2012, 02:26:20 AM
I see a distinct Latécočre 298 look happening here.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia June 26, 2012, 10:52:12 AM
Thanks guys and very nice Tophe --  I love the Yamastang name  :D

I see a distinct Latécočre 298 look happening here.

Well spotted Greg! I was going for a prototype Laté 298 look on the later 'torpederos' ;)
: Nuevo Avión Bombardero en Picada
: apophenia June 26, 2012, 11:09:26 AM
Proyecto NABP (Nuevo Avión Bombardero en Picada)

The ex-Junkers team based its first naval dive-bomber design on the FMA P.12 Yamana torpedo-bomber concept. The P.14 Kaweskar (NABP Tipo 1) was another mid-engined design but somewhat smaller in overall dimensions.

The P.14's crew was reduced to two with the navigator operating defensive armament via a periscopic sight. Defensive armament initially consisted of the P.12's tail barbette relocated admidships. In later studies, the dorsal barbette was augmented with a ventral barbette although control details for the latter were not finalized.

As with the FMA P.12 Yamana, planning staff of the Comando de Aviación Naval rejected the P.14 Kaweskar as being too radical. Anticipating an outcome of this sort, the ex-Junkers team had prepared a back-up NABP design which stayed close to the original Stuka formula.

The FMA P.17 Mapuche (NABP Tipo 2) had conventional engine and cockpit locations and retained the Stuka's distinctive fixed, spatted landing gear. This undercarriage would be jettisonable should ditching at sea become necessary.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe June 26, 2012, 12:04:42 PM
Nice family... :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia June 27, 2012, 10:31:36 AM
Thanks Tophe!
--------

At the end of WWII, Curtiss found itself with military orders cancelled and no viable commercial product to sell. The CW-20 Commando had been one of the most advanced airliners when it flew in 1940 but, by war's end, there was little or no airline interest in the type.

Needing a commercial product quickly and desiring to utilize as many of the CW-20 tools as possible, Curtiss-Wright resurrected its 4-engined CW-24 concept, fitting it with the nose gear of another unbuilt CW-20 derivative, the CW-28. But this alone would not be enough to rival the dominant Douglas DC-4.

The Curtiss-Wright engine division was at work 'Americanizing' the jet engines of Britain's Armstrong Siddeley. This brought them in to contact with the latest Armstrong Siddeley development, the Mamba AS.1 turboprop. Adapted for this radical new powerplant, the Curtiss-Wright CW-34 Turbo Commando was unveiled in late 1948.

Unfortunately for Curtiss-Wright (and Armstrong Siddeley), the Mamba AS.1 had difficulty producing the power it was designed for. The CW-34 never got past the prototype stage, and Curtiss-Wright's licenced TP 48 Mamba turboprop was never built at all.
-------
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: finsrin June 27, 2012, 02:46:14 PM
Turbo Commando four engine.  Cool concept   8)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin June 27, 2012, 04:35:46 PM
Interesting...
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia July 08, 2012, 06:09:57 AM
Another springing from Litvyak's AltBC concept ...

After WWI, the British firm of Pemberton-Billing had reinvented itself as Supermarine. Wartime AD flying boats were bought back for rebuilding and refurbishment for peacetime roles. One such AD reincarnation was the Strait, Supermarine's first foray into British Columbia.

The Supermarine Strait was an AD airframe shipped in 1919 to the Hoffar shipyard in Vancouver for assembly and installation of a Liberty L-12 engine. Otherwise unchanged from the AD, the completed Strait was submitted to the RBCAF as a light patrol flying boat.

Unfortunately for Supermarine, British Columbia had no requirement for such a flying boat (being content with float-based patrol aircraft). The sole Strait was retained by the RBCAF for flying boat training at Jericho Beach but, lacking dual-controls, it was of limited use.

The Strait also participated in harbour-to-harbour air mail trials btween Victoria and Vancouver. While landing in Vancouver's Coal Harbour, fog obscured a piling until it was too late. In an unavoidable collision, the Strait's starboard mainplane was completely destroyed.

The damaged Strait was towed to the nearby Hoffar shipyard where its engine was recovered. Shorn of its ruined wings, the hulk of the Strait sat near the ways until Hoffar decided to use the hull to test its new, Fokker-style wing design. The latter was a plywood-covered wooden monoplane, necessitating a new engine-mounting structure as well.

Hoffar named its 'new' flying boat the Hornby (H-5, in the old Hoffar designation style). To subsidise development trials, Hoffar offered the Hornby as a dedicated air mail carrier to the BC government. Accepted, the Hornby flew the Victoria-Vancouver route until striking a deadhead in Victoria's Inner Harbour. The Hornby was recovered but the wing had been damaged by immersion and the hull was beyond repair.

[BTW, images based on various Zygmunt Szeremeta AD/Channel sideviews]
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Litvyak July 08, 2012, 06:17:08 AM
Ohhhhhhh wow, do I ever adore those!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: arc3371 July 08, 2012, 06:23:07 AM
Very nice
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe July 08, 2012, 10:58:53 AM
Yes, nice!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia July 10, 2012, 11:40:17 AM
From Litvyak's AltBC concept ...
http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=19.msg21783#msg21783 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=19.msg21783#msg21783)

Before the Shukopoots was the Skookum Scimitar Project. But, of course, Supermarine BC's 'Dark Corner' was working on Scimitar derivatives long before the official go-ahead was received.

One such project was a 1963 twin J79-powered Scimitar derivative. This single-seat carrier fighter was aimed at the Royal Canadian Navy which had just retired its Banshee fighters.

Another early Skookum Scimitar project was an all-weather interceptor. Powered by Spey 202s, the interceptor was to use the Autonetics Nasarr monopulse radar set (from the F-104G) wingtip rails for Sidewinder IR missiles, and longer-range AIM-7 Sparrow missiles underwing. When the RBCAF chose to go with Blue Dolphin AAMs, this project was shelved.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Litvyak July 10, 2012, 11:50:55 AM
 :-*

Gorgeous!!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Cliffy B July 10, 2012, 11:55:13 AM
They look so natural!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Empty Handed July 10, 2012, 07:40:31 PM
Sweet Scimitars!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia July 11, 2012, 10:31:00 AM
Thanks folks!  :D
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: M.A.D July 23, 2012, 11:44:32 PM
'North: as promised, here's some more Namao-based heavies.

The Keewatin filled a gap between tactical and strategic transport for the RCAF. Another windy backstory but, long story/shorter: CC-152A is a Kawasaki C-1 outfitted for the RCAF by Canadair. The CC-152B was a trials conversion to BE.53 Pegasus (Bristol Aero Engines Canada). The production STOL variant was the CC-152C.

Very nice!!!

M.A.D
: Re: Canadair-Douglas CC-233
: M.A.D July 23, 2012, 11:45:26 PM
Next installment for the alternative AltCan: the Canadair-Douglas CC-233 Labrador.

With Douglas ending C-133B project, the time was right for a joint venture. A shortened C-133 fuselage was mated to CL-44 wings, tail, and Tyne turboprops. The RCAF used the CC-233 Labrador to shuttle NATO fighters to Europe.

Unfortunately for Douglas, the USAF didn't bite. Hopes had been pinned on riding on USAF CL-44 orders. When that [RW] MATS order fell through, so too did any chance of a USAF 'C-233'.

Any chance of one of these in an RAAF scheme???

M.A.D
: Re: Canadair-Douglas CC-233
: apophenia July 25, 2012, 11:43:11 AM
Any chance of one of these in an RAAF scheme???

Now why didn't I think of that?  ;D
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia July 25, 2012, 12:05:38 PM
Here's another from Litvyak's AltBC series...

Having overseen BC production of the Parnall Plover, designer Harold Bolas moved to Vancouver in early 1930. His first BC commission was from Hoffar Aircraft Engines.

HAE had a buy-back arrangement with the Royal British Columbia Air Force and had exported some refurbished HIV-12A Harrier air-cooled V-12s to Kwangsi to re-engine worn DH-4s and DH-9s. Now the Kwangsi Air Force was looking for a Harrier-powered fighter trainer.

The result was the Hoffar Bolas Fighter HBF-1 aka Bolas Bolo Mk.I  biplane. Twenty were built for the Kwangsi AF, entering service in 1931. By 1935, the Bolos were wearing out and Kwangsi returned them to Hoffar for modernizing and rebuilding.

The HBF-1A (Bolas Bolo Mk.IA ) was similar but replaced the Harrier V-12 with a 450 hp HLR-9A Alcyone 9-cyl radial. Kwangsi arranged for shipment from Vancouver to Hong Kong but the aircraft never arrived. Some time later, the mystery ship showed up in Barcelona harbour - the fighter-trainers had been diverted to the Spanish Republicans!

After assuring the BC government that Hoffar had nothing to do with breaking the boycott on arms shipments to Spain, the HBF-2 (aka Bolas Boxer) light fighter was developed for export. This aircraft was to have a 750 hp 18-cyl HLR-18A Procyon radial but as that engine was late, a P&W Wasp was installed instead.

With no interest in the HBF-2 shown in China, a sales tour of Central America was planned. On the advice of Hoffar de  México SA, the Bolas name was dropped and the light fighter redubbed the Hoffar Halcňn for the Latin American market.

The HBF-2 demonstrator was sold to the Nicaraguan Guardia Nacional and further development of the dated Hoffar Bolas Fighter series was abandoned.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Litvyak July 25, 2012, 12:30:47 PM
Spectacular! :D
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin July 25, 2012, 01:03:34 PM
I understand the CC-233 was a real 'dog' in RAAF service...
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia July 26, 2012, 05:49:09 AM
I understand the CC-233 was a real 'dog' in RAAF service...

Woof!  ;D

Bolas-Crouch Monoplane Fighter and Bolide


With the Bolo/Boxer design played out, Harold Bolas began sketching out a more advanced monoplane fighter for the RBCAF. Then came the surprise announcement came that the Supermarine Skemcis would be bought.

Rather than pursue his monoplane fighter concept, Bolas revised the design as a two-seat attack aircraft. Structurally, the aircraft remained the same as did the powerplant options.

The Bolas attack aircraft, dubbed Bolide, was submitted to the RBCN but was rejected due to wooden construction and monoplane configuration. In 1938, Bolas tried the RBCAF again but that service had also fallen into the thrall of all-metal construction.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia July 26, 2012, 05:50:41 AM
Bolas-Crouch Baccalaureate

With war in Europe imminent, the Royal British Columbia Air Force had a change of heart on metal construction for non-operational types. Early in 1939, the RBCAF planning office approached Bolas to see about turning his wooden attack aircraft design into an advanced trainer for the RBCAF. 

A trainer design with a 600 hp Pratt & Whitney R-1340 Wasp was quickly drawn up. This met the RBCAF's approval but the service insisted upon a change to a single tail surface. This single-finned design would enter RBCAF service as the Bolas-Crouch Baccalaureate trainer.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia July 26, 2012, 05:52:25 AM
Bolas-Crouch Bufflehead and 'Saltchuck Baccy'

The Bolas-Crouch Baccalaureate formed the basis for two different float trainers for the RBCAF. The first was the single-float Bufflehead with purpose-designed Hoffar float and wingtip pontoons. The Bufflehead was meant as a familiarization trainer for the Sea Skemcis SF fighter. The result was unsuccessful in the extreme, the Bufflehead being prone to porpoising on take-off and skip or nose-in on landings.

The second Baccalaureate conversion was more successful. The twin-float
Baccalaureate TF employed imported Edo floats. This 'Saltchuck Baccy' was used as a lead-in trainer for the Sea Skemcis SB torpedo bombers. The wooden structure was not ideal for exposure to salt air and the 'Saltchuck Baccy' was phased out of service in 1946.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia July 26, 2012, 05:54:21 AM
Bolas-Crouch Brambling

Ryan Aeronautical Company of San Diego and Bolas-Crouch struck a deal whereby all-metal specialist Ryan got production rights to the wooden Baccalaureate trainer while Bolas-Crouch could participate in Ryan's bid to build a wooden derivative of their ST series for the US Army.

In the end, the USAAF decided not to proceed with the Ryan trainer beyond a handful of YPT-25 trials aircraft. Bolas-Crouch, on the other hand, produced fairly large numbers of BC-150 Brambling trainers for the RBCAF and for export to Canada for RCAF use.

Initially, it was planned to use the Hoffar-Bolas Bombus 6M V-6 engine in the Brambling but that proved an unhappy combination. The Brambling prototype was re-engined with a de Havilland Gipsy Six which would also power two Brambling production marks. Other Brambling marks used imported Menasco B-6 Buccaneer or Fairchild Ranger 6-440 engines.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Litvyak July 26, 2012, 05:57:07 AM
<3 <3 <3 !!!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Empty Handed July 26, 2012, 06:09:04 AM
Great stuff! That grey/green over yellow scheme on the Baccalaureate is quite tasty!  :P
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: JP Vieira July 27, 2012, 02:55:55 AM
Very good
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia July 27, 2012, 07:11:47 AM
Thanks folks! Somebody on Secret Projects was asking about the unbuilt Macchi C.204 with Isotta Fraschini Asso L.121 or L.122 V12. I cobbled together this using an online C.202 image -- alas, I'm not sure who did the original  :-[
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia July 27, 2012, 01:12:36 PM
Before the Chimera ...  "Eternal glory to Soviet Workers and Peasants!"
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: AXOR July 27, 2012, 04:45:02 PM
IL-21 is quite impressive !!!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe July 28, 2012, 12:47:20 AM
 :-* I love your Il-21!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin July 28, 2012, 03:38:40 AM
 :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: JP Vieira July 28, 2012, 10:35:23 PM
That proto- chimera is amazing :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Brian da Basher July 29, 2012, 12:20:53 AM
I've got to agree, JP! That "Chimeraski" is an absolute wonder to behold!

Brian da Basher
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia July 30, 2012, 08:59:03 AM
Thanks folks!  Working on that conceptual Macchi C.204 image inspired a similar AltHist Macchi C.202. My spring-off point was the various negotiations and treaties attempting to tie Italy and France together in the  1930s. What if that succeeded?

That took me to a HS.12Y powered Macchi C.202 in service with a Regia Aeronautica fighting on the side of the Allies. And mightn't the French have been interested in such a Hispano-powered aircraft to bolster their own fighter defences in 1940? So, presented here are:

* The unpainted prototype Macchi C.202 (MM 445) at Lonate Pozzolo on 01 May 1939 before going to the Regia Aeronautica experimental station at Guidonia. The prototype was fitted with a Czech Avia-built HS.12Y.

* An export Macchi for the Armée de l'Air in 2e Escadrille, GC II/7 markings (Panthčre noire, inset) at Luxeuil, 20 May 1940. Aircraft '4' had an Alfa Romeo RA.1000 RC.12 Monsone (licenced HS.12Y) and a French armament (including 20mm HS.404 cannon).

* An MC.202 serie II of 79° Squadriglia, 17° Gruppo, 1° Stormo. Having claimed two Luftwaffe kills, 79-8 was lost over Osttirol on 28 June 1940. This aircraft had a RA.1000 RC.12-II Monsone, 20mm Scotti cannon and twin 7.7mm Breda machineguns.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: upnorth July 30, 2012, 01:30:07 PM
Those C.202s are rather tasty.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Doom! July 30, 2012, 09:02:16 PM
Love the Il-21 "Batty"  :-*   Way cool!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Empty Handed July 31, 2012, 02:05:54 AM
It's weird how right your Macchi looks in the French camo but how not quite right in the Italian ones!   :o
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: JP Vieira July 31, 2012, 02:57:22 AM
Excellent
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia August 01, 2012, 10:11:09 AM
... but how not quite right in the Italian ones!

Ah, sounds like you're asking for more!  >:D

... Italy split in two after its armistice with Germany. In the north, the Repubblica Sociale Italiana claimed to represent the true roots of fascism. The Luftwaffe helped establish an Aeronautica della RSI using captured equipment. ARSI fighter units were equipped with former French and Regia Aeronautica C.202s as well as newly-built Macchi aircraft.

Standard RSI fighter camouflage consisted of a Luftwaffe-style splinter pattern (colours varying) applied over RA Verde Mimetico 2 base paint. The fuselage sides were sprayed over with undersurface Grigio Chiaro, then blotched with Grigio Azzurro Chiaro 1.

'Yellow 7' is a C.202 serie III newly-delivered direct from the Macchi factory at Lonate Pozzolo. This fighter, based at Turin (Caselle), carries the 'Diavolo Russo' emblem of 410Ş Squadriglia CT. ARSI 'claimed' this unit despite the RA's 410Ş Squadriglia still existing in East Africa, resulting in the same squadron number with similar emblems existing in both Italian air arms!

The Regia Aeronautica C.202 serie II wears the 'uovo in camicia' (poached egg) scheme. This Grottaglie-based Macchi has the 'Cavallino Rampante' emblem of 91Ş Squadriglia CT, 10 Gruppo CT, 4 Stormo CT. 91-5 was lost in the Mediterranean during the retreat from Apulia to Libya.

C.202 serie I 154-5 originated with the Armée de l'Air. Surrendered to the Luftwaffe, 154-5 was repainted and issued to the ARSI only to have its pilot defect to the Regia Aeronautica in Sardinia. There, this Macchi served with 154Ş Squadriglia of 3ş Gruppo Autonomo Caccia at Monserrato (then re-equipping from Fiat CR.32s). 154-5 was lost to a Bf-109 before it could be repainted in full Regia Aeronautica colours.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: AXOR August 01, 2012, 03:59:24 PM
Dewoitine + Macchi = LOVE  :D
Looks very very good,me likey  :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Empty Handed August 01, 2012, 06:47:18 PM
I don't use the word sexy very often but if I did.......
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Brian da Basher August 01, 2012, 11:48:55 PM
I don't use the word sexy very often but if I did.......

The only thing that could make this any hotter would be spats!  :-* :-* :-*

Although I'm already swooning as is!

Excellent work, Apophenia!

Brian da Basher
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia August 02, 2012, 01:11:15 PM
: Brian da Basher link=topic=351.msg23960#msg23960
The only thing that could make this any hotter would be [b
spats[/b]!

Oooo, don't tempt me evil one!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia August 07, 2012, 12:00:23 PM
Ages ago I did a 3-view of a single-seat FAA fighter derived from the Blackburn Skua. Unfortunately, the drawing I worked from wasn't very accurate. So, revisting an oldie, here's the Blackburn B.25 Firebird naval fighter (to O.30/35).

The idea was an alternative to the Sea Gladiator biplane with maximum commonality with the shipboard divebomber of the day. Not a very original concept but it was fun to play with. Once done, I decided to do a 'Mk.II' with Merlin engine.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Acree August 07, 2012, 12:04:25 PM
I like it!  Not sure the name would go over well in 1940, but it sure looks the business.  I especially like the Merlin version. 
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin August 07, 2012, 05:45:20 PM
The Merlin version looks great.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Empty Handed August 07, 2012, 08:07:52 PM
I absolutely love the Merlin Skua although I agree the admiralty would take a dim view of "Jaeger". Perhaps Auk, Guillemot, Petrel, Cormorant. Even Gannet was used by the FAA twice, with the Hellcat initially named Gannet. Why not make it three times?  ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia August 09, 2012, 03:58:48 AM
Since jaegers are smaller skuas, it seemed like a good fit. But, I can see how a name derived from Jäger mightn't be all that popular in the '30s!  :o

EH: good alternative bird names but, if I can't stay within the Stercorariidae, I thought I'd spin off from the Roc name. So, I changed the name to another mythical creature ... the Firebird ... hinting at Blackburn's future Firebrand fighter  ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Brian da Basher August 09, 2012, 06:29:38 AM
Your Blackburn Firebirds are wonderful, apophenia! I really like your thinking behind them and FAA colors are always a plus!

I never thought I'd say that, but with the Mk. II, I've finally seen a Blackburn that's easy on the eyes!

Outstanding!

Brian da Basher
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Volkodav August 09, 2012, 01:54:43 PM
 Great work, I wonder if there is a FAA Hawker family in development.  A carrier based Henley dive bomer anyone?
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Empty Handed August 09, 2012, 08:42:46 PM
Firebird is most apropos indeed!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia August 10, 2012, 11:38:27 AM
Thanks folks! Here's the next installment:

A 'growth' version of the Blackburn B.25, the Firebird Mk.III, was put forward to meet N.11/40 for a Napier Sabre-powered, cannon-armed naval interceptor. Two proposals were made.

The Mk.III (1) was a 'least mod' version of the Merlin Firebird, powered by a 2100 hp Sabre I and armed with four 20mm Hispano cannons. The Mk.III (2) was a more radical redesign of the original Firebird with a mid-positioned Sabre driving an extension shaft and a 40mm Vickers S gun firing through a 'hollow' propeller shaft.

In the end, another Blackburn design was chosen to meet the N.11/40 specification, the B.37 Firebrand.

I never thought I'd say that, but with the Mk. II, I've finally seen a Blackburn that's easy on the eyes!

I always thought that the late-model 'Firebrick' looked half decent. Obviously that one snuck past and typical Blackburn esthetics returned for the Firecrest   :P
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia August 12, 2012, 07:10:46 AM
Litvak's mention of her AltBC site reminded me that I'd done an HAE ad.
http://altcan.webs.com/altbc/ (http://altcan.webs.com/altbc/)

So, here's a 1938 clipping from The Vancouver Sun advertising Hoffar Aero Engines' stand at the Vancouver Exhibition at Hastings Park.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia August 13, 2012, 10:25:04 AM
Spinning off from one of Thiel's concepts ...

At the end of WWII, Danish authorities were ordered to destroy all abandoned or captured German military equipment. Instead, the Danes followed their own 1940 example and hid aircraft and weapons away. One such aircraft was the Heinkel He-219A-7 night fighter.

The He-219 Uhu (Eagle Owl) was a high performance aircraft but Denmark had no pressing need for a night fighter. The He-219A-7s were issued to the Marinens Flyvevćsen (Naval Air Service) which employed them in the anti-shipping role. In MF service, the He-219A-7 became the L.A.2  Hřgeugle (or Hawk Owl).*

By 1948, the Danes were running low on spares for the L.A.2's DB 603A engines. One aircraft (297) was set aside for engine conversion. Based on weight and size, it was concluded that the RR Griffon VI would make a suitable substitute powerplant. Re-engined with this 1,850 hp engine, 297 became the prototype L.A.3 Hřgeugle II.

[* L.A. was the MF code for Landfly Angrebsfly or a land-based attack aircraft. Originally, the L.A.II was to be named Stor-Hornugle - a direct translation of the German Uhu was proposed. But the Eurasian Eagle Owl had become extinct in Denmark late in the 19th century. The extant Hřgeugle was chosen as a substitute namesake.]
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Litvyak August 13, 2012, 10:56:47 AM
Griffon-powered Uhu looks pretty great!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe August 13, 2012, 12:26:11 PM
The one with a nose cone is nicely completing the Uhu family, thanks!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin August 13, 2012, 04:45:16 PM
 :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: TerryCampion August 13, 2012, 08:12:00 PM
Great 219s!!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: upnorth August 13, 2012, 09:43:20 PM
A Uhu with Griffons and five blade props?!  Hell, yeah!!! :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia August 14, 2012, 11:56:38 AM
Thanks folks. Here's the next installment ...

A Uhu with Griffons and five blade props?!  Hell, yeah!!! :)

The original concept for the L.A. III was to use four-bladed propellers from surplus RAF Spitfire XIIs (also the source of the Griffon VI engines).

Hawker designed a revised nacelle and cowling (with chin radiator) under contract but it was decided that this was too complex. In the end, the Spitfire XII cowling was retained with the Spit's radiators mounted under the wing on either side of the nacelle.

The upgraded L.A.IIA  Hřgeugle is also shown.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe August 14, 2012, 12:13:55 PM
Secret archives are full of wonders! ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: TerryCampion August 14, 2012, 05:40:44 PM
Oh how lovely... :-* :-* :-* :P
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Empty Handed August 16, 2012, 05:45:21 AM
These 219s are great. Keep 'em coming!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia August 16, 2012, 06:00:36 AM
A new take on an old (and not terribly original) idea for a single-engined de Havilland fighter based on a Mosquito scale-o-rama from 1/72 to 1/48...

The de Havilland DH.96 Dragonet was an unsuccessful contender for Air Ministry Specification F10/35. The Dragonet prototype is shown as originally flown with its DH.93 Don-style undercarriage and low fuselage deck.

The lower view shows the revised DH.96 prototype in April 1937. The upper fuselage deck has been raised and undercarriage revised to lessen drag. The scrap view shows the unrealized plan to replace the wooden Watts two-blader with a de Havilland two-pitch, three-blade propeller.

Ultimately, the DH.96 lost out to the rival Supermarine Spitfire but the Dragonet's moulded wood construction influenced the DH.98 Mosquito.

De Havilland DH.96 Dragonet Specifications

Power - 1 x Rolls-Royce PV-XII V12 liquid-cooled engine
Dimensions - length: 27 ft 6 in (8.38m), span: 36 ft 2 in (11.02m), wing area: 302 sq ft (28.12m2)

[The RW DH.96 was an unbuilt basic trainer to AM Spec T.1/37. The serial I took from the DH.82B Queen Bee (mostly because K5055 followed the Type 300 Spitfire prototype's serial).]
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin August 16, 2012, 06:32:19 AM
Hmmm...I'm liking the idea of scale-o-raming a Mossie.  Maybe put Big Arsed Guns where the nacelles are...hmm, maybe as a British equivalent to the Il-2....hmmm, brain cogs turning... ::)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia August 16, 2012, 10:49:36 AM
Greg,

A scale-o-rama'd Mosquito is about 2/3rds the size of the Ilyushin. That would probably still work as a single-seater though.

When I started on this, I was thinking more of something like an updated (and martial) DH.88 Comet. The ideal was a DH rival for the Westland Whirlwind (whose canopy I've pinched).

With no suitable engines available in 1939, I made my own by stretching the 12-cyl Gipsy King to create a 16-cylinder 'Gipsy Emperor'  ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia August 19, 2012, 08:37:20 AM
An Australian AC1 Sentinel cruiser tank hull with the turret of the Canadian Skink anti-aircraft vehicle (4 x 20mm Polsten cannon). Seemed like it might be a handy combo for island fighting  ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Volkodav August 19, 2012, 09:18:36 AM
Sweet!

That would fit very well with a notional 2nd AIF Armoured Corps in North Africa / Italy in deployed in exchange for every Ghurka and West African battalian being sent to support the defence of Australia.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe August 19, 2012, 10:25:25 AM
I love your Comet/Whirlwind hybrid :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin August 19, 2012, 02:29:37 PM
 :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia August 20, 2012, 07:05:33 AM
Spring off from Litvyak's AltBC thread:
http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=19.msg25302#msg25302 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=19.msg25302#msg25302)

In 1929 the Royal BC Navy issued a requirement for a float-fighter suited to coastal operations. The aircraft was to be locally built and points would be assigned for local compenents (an HAE fixed-pitched wooden propeller being mandatory). Submissions were received from Boeing, Bolas, de Havilland, and Supermarine.

The first submission was from the newly-formed Bolas Aircraft of BC. The unnamed Bolas float fighter was an updated Parnall Plover with monocoque wooden fuselage and a single-float gear with outriggers (by Hoffar Aircraft Floats).

Power for the Bolas float fighter was meant to be a 600 hp HAE HIV-12A-2. When that engine failed its bench tests, a cowled 525 hp Bristol Jupiter XIF radial was substituted. The RBCN rejected the Bolas float fighter as having insufficient development potential, encouraging Bolas to work on more advanced designs.

De Havilland BC proposed a development of the parent firm's DH.77 light fighter. This aircraft would have an enlarged tailplane and be powered by a 301 hp air-cooled Napier Halford/E.95 Rapier Srs. I engine.

As the DH.77(BC), this 'Diamondback Moth' was the only submission with a cockpit canopy to deal with BC's weather. However, the RBCN's technical board was dubious of the complex Napier engine. DHBC declined to redesign the DH.77(BC) for an indigenous HAE powerplant and the 'Diamondback Moth' was withdrawn from the float fighter competition.

Other than the winning Supermarine Stingray, the only submission to the 1929 float-fighter competition to reach the hardware stage was Boeing's Model 100BC 'Botanie'.*  This was the parent firm's Model 100 mounted on twin Edo floats and powered by a 525 hp Pratt & Whitney S1D1 Wasp or 560 hp SD-1 Hornet.

Boeing was prepared to discuss other engine options including the 490 hp Armstrong Siddeley Jaguar VI, 500 hp Bristol Jupiter XI, and 585 hp Wright SR-1820-F-41 Cyclone. No HAE powerplant option was discussed. The Model 100BC demonstrator was flown from Seattle to Esquimalt for trials but the RCBN had already set its cap on Supermarine's Stingray.

[* Botanie = 'shrouded by cloud (or fog)' in Nlaka'pamux/Thompson.]
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia August 20, 2012, 11:15:47 AM
http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=889.0 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=889.0)

The Concorde Ideas and Inspiration thread got me wondering about how the 1/144 scale kit would scale-o-rama into 1/72nd. Scale length would be around 31.05m which (if the nose is shortened slightly) puts it in the same range as the B-58 Hustler (29.5 m long).

So, here's BAC's mini-Concorde for the RAF. I've show it with a B-58 style pylon for a pod but, since it's BAC, maybe a miniature version of the BAC (ex-Bristol) X-12 Pandora ramjet ASM?
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe August 20, 2012, 12:12:17 PM
Wow! :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: AXOR August 20, 2012, 03:58:45 PM
DH-77 is definitely the most attractive,well done !
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Empty Handed August 21, 2012, 06:10:57 AM
Rather partial to the Boeing 100 myself.  :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia September 19, 2012, 05:14:52 AM
Thanks folks. I'm keen on the DH.77 too (on the Boeing 100, I wonder if I haven't made the floats too big?).
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia September 19, 2012, 05:16:34 AM
The RCAF had taken the Armstrong Whitworth Siskin Mk.IIIA into service in 1926. Having declined Armstrong Whitworth's suggestion of new AW.16s upgrading in-service Siskins was proposed.

Armstrong Whitworth's first proposal, AW.3C (I), simply re-engined the Siskin with a 525 hp Armstrong Siddeley Panther IIA 2-row radial to approximate AW.16 performance. The second proposal, AW.3C (II), was a more extensive rebuild with a cowled Panther IIA, undercarriage spats, and all-around higher speed.

With rather less enthusiasm, Armstrong Whitworth prepared another alternative proposal at the RCAF's request. This AW.3C (II) variant would be powered by a Rolls-Royce Kestrel II V12 engine. Although the Armstrong Whitworth proposals were private ventures, the RCAF felt obliged to open a competition to propose performance upgrades for its Siskin Mk.IIIA fighter fleet.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia September 19, 2012, 05:18:40 AM
Both Fairchild and Bellanca entries into the Siskin rebuild contest were high-wing monoplane conversions.

Fairchild Aircraft Ltd. of Longueuil, Quebec, had the simplest Siskin upgrade proposal -- removing the sesquiplane lower wing and provide new upper wing struts. The AS Jaguar engine was to be retained but fitted with a new Townsend ring cowling.

Fleet Aircraft of Fort Erie, Ontario, was to supply a hinged cockpit canopy for cold-weather flying. MacDonald Brothers Aircraft of Winnipeg would supply skis. Fairchild submitted a separate proposal for Siskin monoplanes fitted with twin Fairchild duralumin floats.

Having recently supplied their CH-300 Pacemaker utility aircraft to the RCAF, Bellanca was also eager to enter the 'Super-Siskin' contest. With no manufacturing facility of its own in Canada, Bellanca joined forces with Canadian Vickers in Montreal (which had earlier built six of the RCAF's Pacemakers on Bellanca's behalf).

Bellanca's proposal also reused the Siskin's upper wing, now supported by typical Bellanca aerofoil-section struts. A single-row US radial was to replace the British original and a larger Bellanca-style fin and rudder substituted. Bellanca offered a Wright R-1750 Cyclone as an alternative to the P&W Wasp.

[BTW, the Siskin was based on a sideview by Zygmunt Szeremeta. I love this guy's stuff ... although he reversed the rudder colour arrangement on his Siskin  ;) ]
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe September 22, 2012, 11:59:12 AM
I like the inline one :-*
(sorry not to be in love with the old radial style)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia October 01, 2012, 10:41:29 AM
Raafif's Corsair rearrangements got me musing ...
http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=852.165 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=852.165)

What if that honker of an engine was put in the middle?
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Litvyak October 01, 2012, 10:50:54 AM
I love those Siskins! But that F4U looks intriguingly unique, too.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe October 01, 2012, 11:36:22 AM
Wonderful Corsair with central engine! :-*
A mix of Mustang FTB and XP-56 and Cordair all at once!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: raafif October 01, 2012, 12:24:44 PM
you sure the engine is in the central fuselage ??

It looks like it's out on the starboard wing to me (= asymetric layout ;) )  Obviously it'd need an exposed drive-shaft across to the fuselage then a V-drive up to the prop !! :o ;D
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe October 01, 2012, 12:28:04 PM
On a Mustang basis, this might be interesting too:
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin October 01, 2012, 07:24:49 PM
I see some definite P-75 influence there:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/photo-32.jpg)

Regards,

Greg
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Logan Hartke October 01, 2012, 09:13:45 PM
Is that your finger in the photo, Greg?

Cheers,

Logan
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: AXOR October 02, 2012, 03:49:54 AM
Inspirational as usual !
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin October 02, 2012, 05:13:18 AM
Is that your finger in the photo, Greg?


Err...yes... :-[

Here are some more I took:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/photo-33.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/photo-34.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/photo-35.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/photo-36.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/photo-37.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/photo-38.jpg)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia October 02, 2012, 07:49:49 AM
Thanks folks. And well-spotted on the P-75 influence Greg (partly for the extra nose guns ... I mean, what self-respecting über-fighter would only carry 6 x .50-cals?!)

It looks like it's out on the starboard wing to me (= asymetric layout ;) )  Obviously it'd need an exposed drive-shaft across to the fuselage then a V-drive up to the prop !!

Or is it actually a twin-boomer with cross shaft drives?  >:D
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: The Big Gimper October 02, 2012, 08:48:19 AM
Is that your finger in the photo, Greg?


Err...yes... :-[

Here are some more I took:

([url]http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/photo-33.jpg[/url])


What's that big white thing in the back ground?  ;D
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Litvyak October 02, 2012, 09:48:58 AM

What's that big white thing in the back ground?  ;D

I'd like to know, too!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia October 02, 2012, 11:09:07 AM
It's the Ling-Temco-Vought XC-142A transport-turned-demonstrator. Under the Defence Production Sharing Agreement, the US was to develop a 4-engined  tiltwing transport (the C-142A) while Canada developed a 2-engined  tiltwing transport (the Canadair CL-84 Dynavert)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe October 02, 2012, 11:42:50 AM
It looks like it's out on the starboard wing to me (= asymetric layout ;) )  Obviously it'd need an exposed drive-shaft across to the fuselage then a V-drive up to the prop !!
Or is it actually a twin-boomer with cross shaft drives?  >:D
If it were a twin-boomer with 2 fins and 2 engines, I guess there would be contrarotating propellers in the nose, no?
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin October 03, 2012, 12:28:37 AM
It's the Ling-Temco-Vought XC-142A transport-turned-demonstrator. Under the Defence Production Sharing Agreement, the US was to develop a 4-engined  tiltwing transport (the C-142A) while Canada developed a 2-engined  tiltwing transport (the Canadair CL-84 Dynavert)

Or possibly the XB-70 if that is the big thing referred to...
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: The Big Gimper October 03, 2012, 02:00:31 AM
It's the Ling-Temco-Vought XC-142A transport-turned-demonstrator. Under the Defence Production Sharing Agreement, the US was to develop a 4-engined  tiltwing transport (the C-142A) while Canada developed a 2-engined  tiltwing transport (the Canadair CL-84 Dynavert)

Or possibly the XB-70 if that is the big thing referred to...

I was being facetious.  >:D

I didn't know about the shared developed between the CL-84 and C-142.

The XC-142 is cool but I do need to bow before the XB-70 and kiss the tires one more time before I die.  :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia October 03, 2012, 10:49:34 AM
Or possibly the XB-70 if that is the big thing referred to...

Ah, sorry, I have a blind spot for those unfortunate airframes bereft of propellers.

I didn't know about the shared developed between the CL-84 and C-142.

There wasn't any real technology sharing going on. The DPSA was about avoiding duplicated production efforts between US and Canadian aerospace firms. (The Defence Development Sharing Arrangement was separate agreement meant to give Canadian industry access to US technology but, as far as I've been able to tell, had no effect on Canadian tiltwing design.)

Since LTV had the lead on their 'large' tiltwing design, Canadair abandoned development of its equivalent (the CL-64 which used up to 8 engines in pairs). Instead, the Canadair team under Karlis Irbitis focused on smaller tiltwing designs -- the recce CL-73/CL-74 and the CL-84 (which started out as a DHC Beaver-sized utility aircraft).
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia October 03, 2012, 10:50:27 AM
I'm keen on buried mid-engines for fighters. But are they enough?
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe October 03, 2012, 11:24:06 AM
Was your Fw190 a forefather of the Arsenal VB-10 or a derivative? Nice anyway... :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: upnorth October 03, 2012, 01:28:39 PM
I'm keen on buried mid-engines for fighters. But are they enough?

That's quite the Fw-190 concept, but that intake duct along the side for the second engine is going to be a huge drag penalty.

Could you not just design the underbelly radiator housing in such a way that the intake could be incorporated into it?
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia October 08, 2012, 06:25:43 AM
That's quite the Fw-190 concept, but that intake duct along the side for the second engine is going to be a huge drag penalty.

Could you not just design the underbelly radiator housing in such a way that the intake could be incorporated into it?

Yep, that'd be a nice, simple solution 'north! I was originally thinking a Jumo 213 in front and a DB603 in the centre. Luftwaffe erks would've loved that!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia October 08, 2012, 06:26:56 AM
A few more Mosquito prequels ...

The DH.92 Destroyer (bottom) was de Havilland's late submission to P.23/35. De Havilland argued that a airframe of non-strategic wooden construction was a better use of resources. The Air Ministry preferred the all-metal Fairey Battle. The Destroyer recycled the designation of the abandoned DH.92 Dolphin.

The DH.96TF Decimator was another late entry ... this time to F.9/35 for a 2-seat, 4-gun turret fighter. The DH.96 Dragonet fighter airframe was adapted for the job. Again, the AM preferred an all-metal design as its Demon replacement (the Boulton-Paul Defiant because of its superior turret installation).

http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=351.msg25109#msg25109 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=351.msg25109#msg25109)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: elmayerle October 08, 2012, 11:27:40 AM
Raafif's Corsair rearrangements got me musing ...
[url]http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=852.165[/url] ([url]http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=852.165[/url])

What if that honker of an engine was put in the middle?

Looks like a cleaner job than the Piaggio P.119 which also put an air-cooled radial in the middle.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe October 08, 2012, 11:37:41 AM
Your DH.92 and 96TF are nice addition to the family of British planes of the 1930s, thanks. :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia October 10, 2012, 11:22:25 AM
In 1935 Vought bought rights to the all-metal Northrop 3A fighter which it developed as the V-141 for a USAAC competition. But Vought had as little success with the V-141 through V-150 lineage as had Northrop.

In 1937, the Vought design team responsible for the V-156 divebomber sought the chance to draught a naval fighter of its own. The result was the V-160 using the same construction techniques as production SB2Us as well as sharing some components.

The US Navy and its Bureau of Aeronautics liked the V-160 design but had reservations over its narrow wheel track (resulting from adopting a reduced-span SB2U centre section). In a re-design, Vought changed the centre section to a reversed gull configuration which also gave more deck clearance for the P&W R-1830's propeller.

The BuAer re-assigned the designation of the 1933 XF3U 2-seat fighter to the new single-seater. However, the XF3U-2 concept was eclipsed by another bent-wing design -- the V-166A Corsair.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Logan Hartke October 10, 2012, 12:14:06 PM
I've always loved the Vought V-141 and V-143, so any more along this like will get a big thumbs up from me!

Cheers,

Logan
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: lauhof52 October 10, 2012, 06:34:44 PM
Very nice concept. I like it!

regards
Lauhof
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe October 11, 2012, 12:16:01 PM
Great additions to the Corsair family... ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: jcf October 12, 2012, 08:14:14 AM
That's quite the Fw-190 concept, but that intake duct along the side for the second engine is going to be a huge drag penalty.

Could you not just design the underbelly radiator housing in such a way that the intake could be incorporated into it?

Yep, that'd be a nice, simple solution 'north! I was originally thinking a Jumo 213 in front and a DB603 in the centre. Luftwaffe erks would've loved that!
.

... or just use separate supercharger intakes for each engine ala the Do 335. ;D

The side entry to the scroll of the standard fore-and-aft arranged German superchargers would
mean turning the air through 90° if you used a bottom intake



: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia October 12, 2012, 09:49:19 AM
Logan: I'm a V-141 fan too. I was tempted to do an F3U on Kingfisher floats but decided that was too obvious.

Jon: The Dornier engineers cheated by reversing their rear engine  ;)

Today's post isn't so much a whif as might-have-beens. The Fokker D.XXII (ontwerp 150 and 151) were outgrowths of the fixed-gear D.XXI fighter. I've put the 150 in operational colours and marked the 151 as a prototype (could the Dutch have got access to Merlins in 1939?)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe October 12, 2012, 11:55:55 AM
I had never noticed the D.XXI was so close to a Curtiss P-40. Thanks for having opened my eyes! :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: lauhof52 October 12, 2012, 01:40:59 PM
That fokker 'ontwerp 151' D.XXII is the Dutch P-40! Very nice concept. :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: upnorth October 12, 2012, 03:43:25 PM
It's very interesting how an inline engine can change the whole look of things.

I'll agree that the radial engined Fokker D.XXII looks like a Curtiss product, but more like a P-36 than a P-40 to my eyes.

The inline version has "Hawker" written all over it, it looks like it belongs in the Hurricane lineage somewhere.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia October 13, 2012, 04:39:33 AM
Thanks folks. It is a nice concept. But I can't take credit ... de Fokker ingenieurs deden goed werk!   ;)

Maybe its the line of the forward upper fuselage but the ontwerp 150 reminds me a little of an under-nourished Hellcat.

For anyone brave enough to tackle a plastic version, I based the ontwerp 151's nose on the Fairey Barracuda's cowling. However, drawings show a variation on the 151 theme with a belly radiator.

The fuselage and horizontal tail of either ontwerp 150 or 151 could be modded from the D.XXI. The main wheels are canted so a Bloch MB-150 undercarriage might work.

The wings are the real puzzle. Structurally they would be similar to the D.XXI but with more dihedral and a much deeper leading edge (ahead of the front spar). A cut and splice of the D.XXI might work but, I'd imagine, getting the wheel wells in would be a real challenge.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Acree October 14, 2012, 02:21:45 AM
I see the malnoursished Hellcat, but I think it's the overall shape (especially the canopy) that creates the image in my mind...
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia October 14, 2012, 10:08:55 AM
More Fokker might-have-beens ...

Bottom is the previously-mentioned variation on the Merlin-engined Ontwerp 151 with the belly radiator bath. I seem to remember a DB 600H alternative engine for the D.XXII as well but have no references.

Equally difficult to find references on is the Fokker D.XXIV, a D.XXI derivative with the Mercury replaced by a sleeve-valve Bristol Perseus and the spatted main gear eclipsed by a retractable undercarriage. No ontwerp number was recorded when this project was announced on 19 June 1939. The D.XXIV designation was referred to three days later.

In the available sideview sketch, the D.XXIV undercarriage looks similar to FR-167 (the experimental Finnish D.XXI installation) but not identical. I used a Macchi C.200 gear as my starting point.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe October 14, 2012, 01:58:39 PM
After the Fokker P-40, we have the Fokker Hurricane, thanks!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia October 16, 2012, 10:18:12 AM
Thanks Tophe. Here's the last of the Fokker projects ... promise  ;)

The Fokker Ontwerp 126 was a 1935 study for a light reconnaissance bomber ŕ la the contemporary Fairey Battle. I assume that the Ontwerp 126 was intended as a replacement for the Fokker C.X biplane.

Like the Battle, the Ontwerp 126 had a liquid-cooled engine (exhaust ports suggesting an HS-12Y rather than the C.X's Kestrel). The Ontwerp 126 also differed from the Battle in having a spatted main gear and a fuselage bomb bay (rather like the Kawasaki Ki-32 'Mary' or Mitsubishi Ki-30 'Ann').

Unlike any of the designs mentions, the Ontwerp 126 was to have two belly gun positions (one firing to the rear, another firing straight down). Planned offensive load seems to have been four 100 kg bombs.

Defensive armament would be the LVA's standard FN Colt-Browning 7,9mm No.3 machine guns but the exact number is unclear. One (or two) MGs were synchronized to fire through the propeller arc. Another MG on a flexible mount fired from the observer's dorsal position. Either that dorsal MG or the ventral MG could also be re-positioned to the vertical ventral position.

For the fin markings, I've re-dubbed the Ontwerp 126 as the Fokker 'C.XII', AFAIK, that was a designation never applied by the LVA.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Logan Hartke October 16, 2012, 10:40:18 AM
Ooo, I like a lot.  It's like a Dutch PZL.23 Karas.

Cheers,

Logan
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: lauhof52 October 16, 2012, 03:47:03 PM
Smashing Fokker's ;D
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin October 16, 2012, 05:59:37 PM
Those look so natural.  Great work.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia October 17, 2012, 11:10:43 AM
Thanks folks :D

Ooo, I like a lot.  It's like a Dutch PZL.23 Karas.

Yep, there's one that did have belly protection! Makes me wonder what a Karas with liquid-cooled engine would've looked like.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia October 17, 2012, 11:12:12 AM
The SB3U-2 Volley was a replacement for Vought's SB2U Vindicator and a stablemate for the Douglas SBD. Powered by the same Wright Cyclone as the Dauntless, the Volley retained much of the structure of Vought's advanced XF4U-1 Corsair fighter.

The SB3U-2 performed well and had commonality with the F4U. However, the US Navy wanted Vought to concentrate on Corsairs and Kingfishers. Although appreciated for its firepower (4 x .50" wing guns), the Volley was phased out in favour of the Dauntless. The SB3U-2 last saw action with Marine units based on Midway Island.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin October 17, 2012, 11:15:57 AM
 :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Empty Handed October 20, 2012, 07:17:50 PM
The mid-engined Corsair, Volley and Ontwerp 126 are brilliant!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe October 21, 2012, 12:33:37 PM
I like the SB3U completing the Vought family, like a missing link... :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia October 22, 2012, 09:54:43 AM
Thanks folks. I had a French Volley and Ki.45 (as wartime A-18 Shrike II) in the works but my CPU has given up the ghost. A new power supply proved an insufficient offering (I'm guessing the motherboard fried).  :icon_crap:

Hi ho. Anyhoo, being (temporarily?) PhotoShopless, it may be a while before I have more images to post  :(
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Acree October 22, 2012, 10:06:06 AM
Sorry to hear THAT!  But I can relate - I once lost over 1000 drawing files.  Save, schmave!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: finsrin October 22, 2012, 11:07:20 AM
I'm keen on buried mid-engines for fighters. But are they enough?

This is a gem of a profile.  Like late 1945 going into Luft 46......   :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: lauhof52 October 23, 2012, 03:10:48 PM
The Vought-volley is superb! Sorry to hear about your crash :(.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia October 25, 2012, 05:11:59 AM
Thanks for the sympathy votes guys  ;)  Oh well, if nothing else, I'm becoming intimately familiar with the innards of my CPU ...

Sorry to hear THAT!  But I can relate - I once lost over 1000 drawing files.  Save, schmave!

Camarade!  That must've sucked big time. My stuff is all on a separate hard drive so, once I've cobbled together another CPU, I should be able to retrieve it.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia November 02, 2012, 11:48:28 AM
I've been playing with a borrowed laptop. It's not very happy with Photoshop but here's my first attempt ...

This was inspired (appropriately enough) by the Hawker Sea Hawk Ideas and Inspiration section. It occurred to me that since the Sea Hawk itself evolved from a propeller-driven fighter, there was no real reason that it couldn't be turned back into a 'proper' airplane.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe November 02, 2012, 12:25:07 PM
Great first try... :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin November 02, 2012, 12:41:59 PM
Sweet!!! :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: lauhof52 November 02, 2012, 04:54:06 PM
Nice one! 8)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: The Big Gimper November 02, 2012, 06:21:45 PM
Nice. Inspired by the  Me 509?
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin November 02, 2012, 06:37:01 PM
Now do the turboprop version...
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: elmayerle November 03, 2012, 12:45:06 AM
Now do the turboprop version...
Or a twin-turboprop version with exhausts more or less where the Sea Hawk exhausts are.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia November 04, 2012, 11:28:51 AM
Nice. Inspired by the  Me 509?

Perhaps subconsciously?

Now here's Evan's turboprop version (the Turbo Hawk with AS Twin Boas)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: elmayerle November 04, 2012, 01:09:17 PM
Nice. Inspired by the  Me 509?

Perhaps subconsciously?

Now here's Evan's turboprop version (the Turbo Hawk with AS Twin Boas)
Oh, damn, that looks nice!!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Acree November 04, 2012, 03:21:35 PM
Wow!  The piston Hawk was cool, but the turboprop version is awesome!  Great job!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin November 04, 2012, 05:27:57 PM
Damn!  Now  I know what to do with that SeaHawk kit...
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: elmayerle November 05, 2012, 02:25:12 AM
Damn!  Now  I know what to do with that SeaHawk kit...
My thoughts as I have an Eastern Express/Novo/Frog kit to do something with.  that looks most enticing.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia November 13, 2012, 07:54:37 AM
Thanks guys. Here's another with training wheels on (I'm trying out another borrowed laptop).

Not a terribly original idea but basically a Spiteful canopy and fuel tank on a Spitfire Mk.II. I thought the Spiteful's extra fuel capacity would be handy on Rhubarb Ops. 1941 seemed a bit early for a full blown Perspex canopy so I went with a two-part transparency. BTW, the original Spitfire Mk.IIa profile was by  Robert Grudzien.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin November 13, 2012, 03:04:53 PM
Different.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe November 14, 2012, 12:16:17 AM
Differently beautiful...
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia November 15, 2012, 12:09:54 PM
This embryonic Tigercat is a project rather than a whif ...

The Grumman Model 51 began as the unbuilt XP-65 for the USAAF. But the G51 was also entered into a 1940 US Navy competition for a fighter/land attack aircraft for the planned Midway Class battle carriers. The Grumman concept was further developed, emerging as the XF7F-1.

Modeling the G51 would be tricky. Compared with the F7F, the nose is considerably shorter; the shorter rear fuselage is shaped completely differently as is the vertical tail; the nacelles are longer and more conical; the wings are mid-set (and shaped more like those of the XF5F/XP-50); and the canopy is bigger.

I've shown the canopy as a lengthened version of the F7F's one-piece glazing. It is just as likely that the original Model 51 canopy would have looked more like that of the Hellcat.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Daryl J. November 15, 2012, 03:14:04 PM
Cool stuff!  :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Doom! November 16, 2012, 12:11:32 AM
(http://www.doomisland2.com/images/avatars/wub1.gif) (http://www.doomisland2.com/images/avatars/wub1.gif) (http://www.doomisland2.com/images/avatars/wub1.gif)  I love this one!!!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe November 16, 2012, 12:57:36 AM
you make me dream of a single-engined (asymmetric) low wing Tigercat, thanks.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: arc3371 November 16, 2012, 12:30:00 PM
Great stuff, any LL G-51 coming?
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia November 17, 2012, 06:28:52 AM
Thanks folks.  [arc': "LL" as in 'Launch and Leave' or ... ?]

This time it is a whif. What if Grumman persisted with the XF5F theme but scaled up for larger engines? I present the F7F-1 Tomcat (original RW name for the Tigercat).
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: arc3371 November 17, 2012, 06:37:10 AM
Launch or leave sounds interesting(?) but I was thinking Lend-Lease
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin November 17, 2012, 06:39:25 AM
 :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia November 17, 2012, 06:42:43 AM
Launch or leave sounds interesting(?) but I was thinking Lend-Lease

Hmmm, never thought of British colours ... tempting.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia November 17, 2012, 11:01:57 AM
And here she is ... the early version Grumman Model 51 as an operational FAA Tigercat FR.Mk.IIA
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: The Big Gimper November 17, 2012, 11:09:10 AM
And here she is ... the early version Grumman Model 51 as an operational FAA Tigercat FR.Mk.IIA

I have two of the Aoshima kits in the stash. I know now how to finish one kit.

Very nice in GSB.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: jschmus November 17, 2012, 04:34:08 PM
Thanks folks.  [arc': "LL" as in 'Launch and Leave' or ... ?]

This time it is a whif. What if Grumman persisted with the XF5F theme but scaled up for larger engines? I present the F7F-1 Tomcat (original RW name for the Tigercat).

From what I remember, Grumman tried to use Tomcat a couple of times before the F-14, but BuAer or whomever always rejected it on the basis of the name being "slutty", though they rejected it in more polite terms.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia November 18, 2012, 07:21:44 AM
Well, tomcats do have that reputation  ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: raafif November 19, 2012, 05:20:21 AM
 ..... and is it just coincidence that the Tailhook scandal only happened after the F-14's introduction ? ???
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia November 19, 2012, 12:13:53 PM
More ur-Spiteful musings ...
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: arc3371 November 19, 2012, 01:20:48 PM
Looks great reminds me of the Arsenal VG series
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Logan Hartke November 19, 2012, 01:38:03 PM
Ah, very nice.  I agree with arc, though.  They do look a bit like the Arsenal VG with that wing shape and cockpit, though the tail is completely different, obviously.

Cheers,

Logan
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: upnorth November 19, 2012, 01:49:13 PM
Those are slick, speedy looking critters, aren't they?

I quite like them.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia November 21, 2012, 11:23:10 AM
Thanks guys. I take those Arsenal comparisons as compliments -- the VG series are long-time personal favourites!

The production Spiteful differed from the final prototype configuration in a number of details. Other than armament  (2 x 20mm Hispanos, 4 x 303-in Brownings), the Spiteful Mk.IA had a Griffon IIB plus a revised canopy and rearview glazing (replacing the prototype's 'turtle back' fairing).
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin November 21, 2012, 04:28:06 PM
 :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Daryl J. November 22, 2012, 11:54:25 AM
Fun stuff.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia November 23, 2012, 06:50:44 AM
A factory-fresh Spiteful Mk.IIIA of No.332 Squadron, RAF North Weald, marked with white distemper stripes for Operation Rutter, July 1942. The Spiteful Mk.IIIA was a low-altitude variant with a cropped-impellor Griffon IV. This aircraft was lost off Dieppe a month later.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia November 23, 2012, 11:08:54 AM
Supermarine Spiteful F.Mk.VI of 91 (Nigeria) Squadron in invasion stripes during July 1944. The Spiteful F.Mk.VI  introduced a one-piece blown perspex rear deck, individual ejector exhausts, a retractable tailwheel, and heavier armament (4 x 20mm Hispano Mk.II cannons).
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: lauhof52 November 23, 2012, 05:17:42 PM
Love your spitefuls! :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: arc3371 November 23, 2012, 10:55:34 PM
Very beatiful aircraft, have you considered using a Sea Fury canopy?
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia November 24, 2012, 12:17:54 PM
Very beatiful aircraft, have you considered using a Sea Fury canopy?

Thanks! I hadn't considered an alternative bubble canopy. I had assumed the next step would be a Real World-like Spiteful canopy. But I wasn't planning on illustrating that -- too close to the real thing. So, with is probably the last entry on this theme:

A Spiteful F.Mk.VII of 92a Squadriglia, 8° Gruppo, 5° Stormo Aeronautica Militare Italiana, based at Orlo al Serio (Bergamo). These ex-RAF fighters began replacing surplus Spitfires in Italian service in late 1948.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Acree November 24, 2012, 01:43:22 PM
Hi, Apophenia!

Love the Spitefuls.  The Mk VI is my favorite.  :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: JP Vieira November 25, 2012, 01:49:53 AM
These Spiteful are amazing
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: arc3371 November 25, 2012, 05:07:26 AM
Very good looking aircraft
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia November 28, 2012, 06:19:28 AM
Die Stuka mit zwei Brüsten. A twin-engined Ju 87 derivative as Junkers' backup concept for the RLM's 1937 Schlachtflugzeug contest. The usual backstory is availabile if anyone is interested.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Logan Hartke November 28, 2012, 06:29:55 AM
Is it a Ju 87 variant?  Then yes, I'm interested!

Cheers,

Logan
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia November 28, 2012, 06:56:29 AM
Not a Ju 87 variant exactly, but here goes anyway ...  ;D

In April 1937, the Technische Amt of the RLM issued its specification for a new twin-engine ground-attack aircraft (Schlachtflugzeug). Development contracts were issued for the Fw 189C and Hs 129A in Oct 1937. Junkers Flugzeug- und -Motorenwerke AG was not favoured because the RLM wanted the Dessau firm to concentrate of production of the Ju 87 Stuka and development of the Ju 88 schnellbomber.

Junkers design staff believed that both the Focke-Wulf and Henschel submissions lacked promise. As such, Junkers decided to proceed with a private venture to submit to the Technische Amt. In effect, this aircraft was to be a twin-engined Ju 87B development. The fuselage would remain virtually unaltered other than the wing centre section. This was to be extended, incorporate new motor mounts, and have its anhedral almost completely eliminated.

Power would be provided by twin Junkers Jumo 210s. The RLM preferred lower-powered engines and, compared to its new Jumo 211 V12s, Junkers believed that their earlier powerplant qualified. Thus, the proposed Schlachtflugzeug would have twice the power of the Ju 87A-1 while allowing Junkers to extend the production life of the Jumo 210.

Engines and radiators would be armoured from below. Additional armour plating would attached to the inside of the Stuka fuselage and pilot's cockpit was to have an armoured hood with inset 'panzerglas'. The rear gunner would be protected by an armoured glass panel on his flexible gun mount.

The Junkers concept far exceeded the required armament of two Oerlikon MG FF cannons (with the desired addition of twin 7,9 mm machineguns). Attached to the Stuka's former engine bearer points was an interchangable waffenträger. This nose section could be fitted with 10 x 7,9 mm MG17 machineguns, 4 x MG17s and 4 x MG FF cannon, or Junkers' reccommended main guns. These would be twin Bordkanone BK 2,0 to be based on the Luftwaffe's ground-based Mauser anti-aircraft gun. This 2 cm FlaK 30 had a higher muzzle velocity than the requested MG FF while firing a much heavier shell than the Oerlikon.

Offensive bomb load remained the same as the Ju-87 although the Stuka's swinging bomb cradle was no longer needed. Dive brakes were retained but moved outboard on the wings to clear much of the propellers' slipstream.

Although not exactly welcoming of unsolicited offerings, the Technische Amt was intrigued by the possibility of a new twin-engined Schlachtflugzeug making use of the Stuka airframe. However, the EF 044 design was seen as being excessively large yet underarmoured. Junkers was also informed that small, air-cooled engines were the preferred powerplants. Junkers had found an 'in' to the Schlachtflugzeug concept but the designers at Dessau would need to return to their drawing boards ...
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: finsrin November 28, 2012, 12:14:44 PM
Like to see EF 044 as 1/72 kit.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin November 28, 2012, 04:05:45 PM
 :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia November 29, 2012, 11:32:23 AM
Thanks folks

Like to see EF 044 as 1/72 kit.

Probably bashable but you'd have to be a glutton for punishment  ;D  Anyhoo, here's the next installment ...

Junkers next foray into the design of a twin-engined Schlachtflugzeug more closely followed the preferences of the RLM's Technische Amt. It was powered by two 460 hp Argus As 410 air-cooled V12s. Armament comprised twin 2cm MG FF cannons in the belly and two 7,9mm MG17 machineguns in the wing roots.

Crew was reduced to one but what startled the Technische Amt was Junkers' choice of a prone pilot. The designers' rationale was that armouring a cockpit for a prone pilot was simpler and allowed much of the nose to be glazed with 'panzerglas' from somewhat improved visibility. Not completely convinced, a prototype and a small pre-production batch of what would be designated Ju 169 were ordered for trials.

In service trails, the Ju 169 outperformed the rival Henschel Hs 129A ... but that wasn't saying much. While the Henschel design lent itself to re-engining with more powerful radial engines, such a reworking of the Junkers Schlachtflugzeug would have left the Ju 169 pilot with no view to the sides at all.

In the end, the Luftwaffe elected to dispose of both designs. The Hs 129A-0s were passed on to the Romanian FARR, the Ju 169A-0s went to the Hungarian Magyar Királyi Honvéd Légierö.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia November 29, 2012, 11:33:48 AM
Having outlived their usefulness as Luftwaffe trails aircraft, the 10 Ju 169A-0 pre-production machines and the Ju 169v1 prototype were transfered to the Magyar Királyi Honvéd Légierö. Fitted with dive brakes, these aircraft equipped Hungary's 102/1 Zuhanóbombázó század (alongside Ju 87B-1s).

After a little over a year of hard service in the Ukraine, the well-worn Ju 169s were returned to Hungary. Some consideration was given to producing an improved version in Hungary. To that end, the last Ju 169 in Hungarian service was operated by the RKI research flight at Matyasfold until early 1944. Alas, the local plant, Manfred Weiss, was already overworked and the idea was dropped. The planned local production version was to be powered by two 520 hp Walter Sagitta II RC engines and armed with six 12.7mm Gebauer 1940.M machineguns.

The Ju 169 shown has been dubbed 'Páncélozott Pulyka' or 'Armoured Turkey', an indication of the pilots' opinion of the flight qualities of their mounts. This aircraft was shot down by Russian fighters in early May 1943.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: arc3371 November 29, 2012, 11:36:56 AM
A Hungarian Ju-169 with Jendrassik turboprop engines could be interesting
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin November 29, 2012, 02:50:17 PM
You have given me ideas for something similar with a Akaflieg Berlin B 9
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: JP Vieira November 30, 2012, 03:56:47 AM
These twins are amazing
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Empty Handed November 30, 2012, 05:16:10 AM
The Ju-169 is pretty sweet!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: upnorth November 30, 2012, 02:09:50 PM
Those are some fantastic Stuka  developments!

Reminds me that I have to get back to my Stuka alternate history story.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Acree November 30, 2012, 03:18:23 PM
Loving the zwei motoren stuka! (sorry for hte horrible German).  But great profiles and backstory!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia December 01, 2012, 06:46:38 AM
Thanks folks! Greg: Yep, the Berlin B 9 was definitely an influence  ;)

A Hungarian Ju-169 with Jendrassik turboprop engines could be interesting

Dang! I wish I'd thought of that  :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin December 02, 2012, 10:12:26 AM
Well I hope you are happy!  I have just ordered a 1/48 Berlin B9 which will be up engined with a pair of Argus As 410 air-cooled V12s.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia December 02, 2012, 02:06:17 PM
Very happy  >:D  Now let's see what kind of armament you can hang off the little B 9  ;)

Going back a bit, arc' mentioned the Jendrassik turboprop. So, instead of a Manfred Weiss design here is a rival concept from László Varga. The first RMI-11 X/H design was basically a shortened version of the RMI-1 fighter with an armoured prone cockpit neatly wrapped in a streamlined perspex nosecone. The second submission was a more radical redesign of the RMI-1 with the turboprops repositioned above the wings.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: arc3371 December 02, 2012, 02:28:10 PM
Great work, kind of has an Arado Blitz look to it
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: finsrin December 02, 2012, 02:32:30 PM
RMI-1 and RMI-11  :-* :-*
Approximations in styrene are in order.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Logan Hartke December 02, 2012, 03:21:38 PM
By the way, Apophenia, did you ever see my own take on the EF 044 concept you did?  Mine was mid-war and I called it the Ju 287, but I liked the way it turned out. (http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,20962.msg297632.html#msg297632)

This was just done with colored pencils many moons ago, but I still rather like it.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v132/loganov/My%20Pictures/ju287-dark.jpg)

Cheers,

Logan
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia December 04, 2012, 06:31:08 AM
Thanks folks!

finsrin: There actually was a kit of Varga's RMI-1X/H. The International Resin Modellers Assocation released a 1/72 resin kit ... although I notice that an IRMA kit just sold on ebay for US$82.00  :o

Logan: That is very cool ... but makes me wistful for the days of Staedtler pencil crayons and Pantone markers  :D  Am I right in thinking that your Ju 287 is a scale-o-rama of Ju 88 wing and Ju 288 tail surfaces?
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Logan Hartke December 04, 2012, 06:49:08 AM

Indeed, along with Ju 88 family BMW 801s.

Cheers,

Logan
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia December 06, 2012, 12:49:39 PM
Post-Armistice adaptations of the Dewoitine D.520.

Top is a Luftwaffe trainer on loan to l'aviation de LVF in Belarus, July 1942. This unit was formed to support the Légion des Volontaires Français fighting alongside the Wehrmacht in the Soviet Union. This 1er Groupe fighter retains a spirale-schnauze but ALVF insignia cover other German markings.

Aircraft of l'aviation de LVF were to wear the 'Fleury cross' but the dominant red of this roundel was deemed unwise on the Eastern Front. Instead, a simple balkan cross was applied over the Luftwaffe crosses. The hache ŕ double emblem of Maréchal Pétain was used as a squadron insignia.

Bottom is a D.520F of the Ilmavoimat. The D.520Fs were ex-AdlA fighters rebuilt for Finland to a German contract. Other than substituted German equipment, the D.520Fs also received Soviet M-105 engines and armament. All Finnish D.520Fs were assigned to LeLv 32. The extended rear glazing is a local modification performed by the Valtion lentokonetehdas.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe December 06, 2012, 01:08:36 PM
The extended rear glazing is a local modification performed by the Valtion lentokonetehdas.
Wonderful improvement, great!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: elmayerle December 06, 2012, 01:27:29 PM
Post-Armistice adaptations of the Dewoitine D.520.

Top is a Luftwaffe trainer on loan to l'aviation de LVF in Belarus, July 1942. This unit was formed to support the Légion des Volontaires Français fighting alongside the Wehrmacht in the Soviet Union. This 1er Groupe fighter retains a spirale-schnauze but ALVF insignia cover other German markings.

Aircraft of l'aviation de LVF were to wear the 'Fleury cross' but the dominant red of this roundel was deemed unwise on the Eastern Front. Instead, a simple balkan cross was applied over the Luftwaffe crosses. The hache ŕ double emblem of Maréchal Pétain was used as a squadron insignia.

Bottom is a D.520F of the Ilmavoimat. The D.520Fs were ex-AdlA fighters rebuilt for Finland to a German contract. Other than substituted German equipment, the D.520Fs also received Soviet M-105 engines and armament. All Finnish D.520Fs were assigned to LeLv 32. The extended rear glazing is a local modification performed by the Valtion lentokonetehdas.
Damn, I really like that second one.  I could see it doing quite well in that use, too.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: upnorth December 06, 2012, 01:50:40 PM
That rear glazing is a tremendous improvement. It's going to be a lot harder to sneak up on it now!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Empty Handed December 06, 2012, 09:09:32 PM
The Finnish Dewoitine is indeed awesome but I must confess to being intrigued by the concept of the LVF.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia December 07, 2012, 07:01:26 AM
Thanks folks!

Evan: That Ilmavoimat D.520F was, of course, inspired by a combination of French Hawk 75As rebuilt for Finland and the local Klimov-powered Mörkö rebuilds.

EH: The LVF was a real formation (eventually becoming 33 SS Charlemagne) but I made up the aviation component.  (Originally, I was thinking of Vichy going over to the Axis after Oran but the schemes looked too Italian.)

Elsewhere, Greg was asking about further developments of the Dewoitine D.520. I've got a few of those in the works ...
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe December 07, 2012, 10:09:12 AM
further developments of the Dewoitine D.520. I've got a few of those in the works ...
teasing... I wish today is next week... :icon_crap: ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia December 07, 2012, 01:16:12 PM
Patience is a virtue Tophe  ;D  But I was motivated to do another Ilmavoimat D.520F ...

This aircraft is one of a handful of LeLv 32's 'escort' fighters. These top-cover Poronhoitajat (reindeer herders) fighters had their wing machineguns replaced by heavier-calibre weapons (20mm ShVAK cannons or 12.7mm Berezin UB) in underwing pods.

DW-14 is shown based at Latva airfield in March 1944. While applying distemper winter camouflage, the 'erks' have carefully gone around the pilot's personal markings (the cartoon character Pekka Puupää accompanied by the slogan 'Ei hätää!' or 'Don't worry!'.)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin December 08, 2012, 03:24:26 AM
 :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia December 11, 2012, 05:59:10 AM
In March 1934, the Service Technique Aéronautique (STAé) issued a requirement for new chasseurs monoplaces to replace both the Dewoitine D.500 and the Loire 46. Dewoitine's belated RW entry was the disasterous D.513 -- which later became the even worse D.514 LP (a spatted monstrocity that only BdB could love!).

But what if Dewoitine had simply built on its previous successes instead? Here I present alternative decendents to the D.500/D.510 series. My D.513 is based on the D.503 fuselage with an all-new wing and retractable undercarriage. The alternative D.514 cleans up that design, introducing a new belly radiator bath and a fully-enclosed cockpit.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: arc3371 December 11, 2012, 06:15:28 AM
They look great but wasn´t there a D.513 OTL?
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia December 11, 2012, 12:21:38 PM
Yes there was arc'.  I should have more clear that my first paragraph referred to Real World developments.

My AltHist idea was what if Dewoitine had created a direct-evolution replacement for the AdlA's D.500 series a year earlier. So, by jumping a year ahead in my universe, I get to use those designations first  ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Empty Handed December 12, 2012, 05:15:59 AM
I am loving those Dewoitines! I wonder what Loire's entry would look like?  ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia December 12, 2012, 12:39:52 PM
Cheers EH. Following the same logic as the D.513/D.514 development, the Loire submission wouldn't have been the RW Loire 250. Instead, it would've been a more straightforward evolution of the in-service Loire 46 C1. So, here is the prototype Loire/Loire-Nieuport LN-146 C1.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia December 12, 2012, 12:40:57 PM
Elsewhere, Volkodav suggested "SAAB Draken IV, similar in concept the Mirage IV".
http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=695.msg33403#msg33403 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=695.msg33403#msg33403)

I present the SAAB Fáfnir supersonic bomber in Flygvapnet service.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Logan Hartke December 12, 2012, 01:11:38 PM
Elsewhere, Volkodav suggested "SAAB Draken IV, similar in concept the Mirage IV".
[url]http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=695.msg33403#msg33403[/url] ([url]http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=695.msg33403#msg33403[/url])

I present the SAAB Fáfnir supersonic bomber in Flygvapnet service.


Why has no one done this before?  I demand more of this "Fáfnir".  Maybe one of your signature profiles with revised gear that give a good sense of scale?  Maybe with some dark bands like this Viggen?

(http://www.cavok-aviation-photos.net/Zeltweg03/JA37_37411.jpg)

Cheers,

Logan
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Logan Hartke December 12, 2012, 01:12:25 PM
Heck, that twin Viggen gear might be the solution to the scale gear issue, too.

Cheers,

Logan
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Volkodav December 12, 2012, 06:53:48 PM
Elsewhere, Volkodav suggested "SAAB Draken IV, similar in concept the Mirage IV".
[url]http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=695.msg33403#msg33403[/url] ([url]http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=695.msg33403#msg33403[/url])

I present the SAAB Fáfnir supersonic bomber in Flygvapnet service.


Sweet, what engines is that beastie packing?  Avons, Speys or maybe Olympus?
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: arc3371 December 12, 2012, 06:55:13 PM
Elsewhere, Volkodav suggested "SAAB Draken IV, similar in concept the Mirage IV".
[url]http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=695.msg33403#msg33403[/url] ([url]http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=695.msg33403#msg33403[/url])

I present the SAAB Fáfnir supersonic bomber in Flygvapnet service.


I do like that but may suggest Mjölner as a name instead
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia December 13, 2012, 03:23:13 AM
Volkodav: Thanks! I was thinking licenced Speys.

Logan: I had imagined a scaled-up version of the Viggen main gear (although I haven't checked to see if any of this would actually work as a scale-o-rama). I like that two-tone camouflage! Maybe this bomber starts out as a Mirage IV-style nuclear strike aircraft and turns into a fast-and-low conventional bomber?

arc':  Mjölner sounds good (and Thor's hammer fits). I went with Fáfnir because his technique of spreading poison as a deterrent seemed to suit a nuclear bomber somehow  ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Logan Hartke December 13, 2012, 03:58:26 AM
It wouldn't be the first Cold War bomber to go that route!

Cheers,

Logan
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: arc3371 December 13, 2012, 05:56:52 AM
Volkodav: Thanks! I was thinking licenced Speys.

Logan: I had imagined a scaled-up version of the Viggen main gear (although I haven't checked to see if any of this would actually work as a scale-o-rama). I like that two-tone camouflage! Maybe this bomber starts out as a Mirage IV-style nuclear strike aircraft and turns into a fast-and-low conventional bomber?

arc':  Mjölner sounds good (and Thor's hammer fits). I went with Fáfnir because his technique of spreading poison as a deterrent seemed to suit a nuclear bomber somehow  ;)


Have you seen this pic?

(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f224/arc3371/Other/Sdraken.jpg)

Fafnir is a good name (Fafner or Fafne in Swedish) but Sigurds saga isn´t that well known by the general public, Mjölner on the other hand is and as a curiosity I can mention that Eskader 1 (the Attack Group) of the Swedish Air Force was often called ÖB:s Hammare (the Hammer of the CinC)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: elmayerle December 13, 2012, 12:36:03 PM
Just a thought, instead of Speys, go a bit bigger and use afterburning Medways.  The Viggen can then use a single one of these instead of a JT8D derivative.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin December 13, 2012, 02:51:33 PM
Also remember this:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/More%20Creations/supedraken.jpg)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: sotoolslinger December 14, 2012, 10:12:13 AM
Pretty much all your stuff is cool 8) But I already have the long nose from an XF5F and your twin Stuka saved... >:D :icon_fsm:
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia December 16, 2012, 12:40:35 PM
Thanks all for the feedback and suggestions. Here's my take on the Swedish bomber ...

The Saab 38 Mjölnir began as the Projekt 1400, a larger twin-engined bomber derived from the Saab 36 design. In the beginning, Projekt 1400 shared the dorsal intake layout of the early P.1300-50 Saab 36 as well as that aircraft's 44 kN Sveska Flygmotor RM7 (Bristol Olympus) engine. When the Saab 36 project closed down in Feb 1958, the P.1400 was redesigned as an aerodynamically less risky scaling up of the Saab 35 Draken (Projekt 1200).

As a cost-savings, two of the Draken's RM6 Avon engines were to be used. This changed when the British government  offered to licence the advanced 66.7 kN Rolls-Royce RB.177 Medway turbofan to Sweden. Sveska Flygmotor developed its own afterburner providing the licenced RM8 with 97.8 kN of thrust with reheat. Projekt 1400 was in direct  competition with another Saab project, the nuclear-armed Robot 330 cruise missile. In late 1959, the choice was  made to focus on just one 'bombflygplan' project and the Mjölnir was born.

The B38A Mjölnir entered Flygvapnet service in the summer of 1966 in the nuclear strike role. In the event of war, the B38A dvision was tasked with hitting Warsaw Pact embarkation ports in the Baltic with their free-fall nuclear bombs. This intended role was highly controversial with the Swedish citizenry. By 1968, all Swedish nuclear warheads had been withdrawn from service and modified Mjölnirs were re-roled.

The B38B Mjölnir had pylons for conventional weapons and acted as tactical bombers. By the late 1970s, individual B38Bs were withdrawn for rebuilds. Refurbished aircraft returned to Flygvapnet service as B38C anti-shipping strike  aircraft armed with sea-skimming Saab RB 04 Turbo missiles. It was planned to rearm the B38Cs with superior RBS-15F missiles but years of low-flying had taken its toll on the Saab bombers and the division stood down in 1989.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Logan Hartke December 16, 2012, 01:21:47 PM
Very nice, well done!

Cheers,

Logan
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Empty Handed December 17, 2012, 06:54:40 AM
Couldn't agree more! Very nice!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia December 17, 2012, 08:42:42 AM
Thanks lads. It's a crappy image but gets the idea across. I was having more fun with backstories so decided to do one variation on the theme ...

During the Third Icelandic Cod War, Sweden offered to lease A32 Lansen fighter-bombers armed with Saab Rb04 Turbo anti-shipping missiles. Aircrews of the Landhelgisgćsla Íslands (Icelandic Coast Guard) were dispatched to Sweden in the Spring of 1976 but, before training was complete, the dispute was resolved.

As reports of the British fishing industry's decline reached Iceland, a renewal of the Ţorskastríđin was judged as a genuine possibility. By then, the Lansen were retired. In May 1983, discussions began of the short-term lease of Flygvapnet B38C Mjölnir. An agreement was quickly arrived at and former Icelandic Lansen trainees were dispatched to Sweden to begin working up on the larger Mjölnir.

With Flygvapnet markings overpainted with a scheme appropriate to the North Atlantic, the B38C entered Icelandic service redubbed as the Saab Sleipnir (a reference to the aircraft's eight main wheels). Although flown by 'Gćslan' personnel and in Coast Guard markings, technically, these aircraft belonged to the Icelandic Defence Agency (Varnarmálastofnun Íslands). By agreement with Sweden, the leased B38Cs had their refuelling probes removed after arrival in Iceland to emphasize the aircrafts' defensive nature.

The normal load-out for the Sleipnir was six Saab Rb04 Turbo anti-shipping missiles with an optional belly drop tank for extra fuel. The latter was rarely carried and the centreline pylon was sometimes used to mount a single Bofors M70 135mm rocket pod. These rockets carried flares instead of warheads and were intended for warning shots.

The big Saab's service with Iceland was brief. By the summer of 1984, it was obvious that the UK Government had no intention of allowing the faltering British fishing fleet to raise tensions in the North Atlantic again. With Iceland's 200 nautical miles fishing zone an established fact, the Sleipnir fleet were returned to Sweden to become B38C Mjölnir once more.

The aircraft illustrated is Sleipnir 01 (TY-SLE) with standard Icelandic markings -- LANDHELGISGĆSLAN title and  lo-viz 'Gćslan' crest on fuselage, split flag and civil registration on the vertical tail. Camouflage patterns  varied amongst the five different Sleipnir.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Litvyak December 17, 2012, 08:48:59 AM
That is /epic/!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: arc3371 December 17, 2012, 10:11:35 AM
Great background stories
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: elmayerle December 17, 2012, 11:55:21 AM
Interesting backstories and design.  I take it this would be  a scaled up and stretched Draken with a Viggen exhaust?  I'm trying to visualize the best build approach in 1/72.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: upnorth December 17, 2012, 02:12:50 PM
OK, that is some SERIOUS coast guarding!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Empty Handed December 17, 2012, 09:34:58 PM
Bah! Tonka-bait!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia December 18, 2012, 02:55:49 AM
Thanks folks!

Evan: Yes, I haven't actually scaled anything but the idea was a 1/48 Draken and Viggen u/c with twin 1/72 Viggen exhaust. Being SFA-designed, I assumed that the latter would look no different for an RB.177-based RM8.

EH: Absolutely! As soon as that 1984-era  Tornado F2 had a lock on with its top-shelf Blue Circle radar, that poor Sleipnir would be toast  ;D
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: JP Vieira December 18, 2012, 03:16:13 AM
Very interesting birds and stories
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia December 18, 2012, 08:35:23 AM
Continuing with the Dewoitine evolution ...

Instituto Aerotécnico I.Ae.26 Pülü fighter prototype 1945

In November 1942, German occupation authorities began plans to clear the SNCAM Toulouse factories for production of Junkers designs for the Luftwaffe. Tooling and fixtures for the D.520 fighter were offered first to Spain (which preferred to licence Bf 109s) and then to Argentina. In late 1943, this equipment was loaded on to Spanish vessels  at Bordeau for shipment to Argentina.

The Fuerza Aérea Argentina wanted to replace its obsolete FMA Curtiss Hawk 75-0 fighters but recognized that the Dewoitine was no longer a world-class aircraft either. Thus, FMA (by then, the Instituto Aerotécnico took on the task of redesigning the D.520 for FAA service.

The resulting I.Ae.26 was modified to accommodate a German DB601A engine and MG151 20mm motor-cannon (with four wing-mounted 7.62mm Madsen machineguns. Plans shifted to a DB605A engine and three MG151 guns which were now being  built in Argentina. But Germany proved incapable of delivering either complete DB605s or tools for building these engines. After May 1945, attention turned to Italy were stocks of Fiat R.A 1050 Tifone engines were available.

The prototype I.Ae.26, combining French-made and Argentine parts, flew in December 1945. Dubbed Pülü ('wasp' in the Mapuche language), the prototype was accepted by the FAA for trials in April 1946 but no production order was forthcoming. The FAA believed that the Pülü was conceptually obsolete and requested that a turbojet-powered I.Ae.26
derivative be explored.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia December 18, 2012, 08:37:45 AM
Instituto Aerotécnico I.Ae.27 Kalkiń jet fighter concept 1945-46

The I.Ae.27 was a jet fighter derivative of the I.Ae.26 designed at the Instituto Aerotécnico in 1945-46. This aircraft was to combine the wings and horizontal tailplane of the D.520/I.Ae.26 Pülü piston-engined fighter [see previous page] with a  new turbojet based on drawings of the German Heinkel-Hirth He S 011. The new design was dubbed Kalkiń ('eagle' in the Mapuche language).

A new fuselage was devised placing the jet engine near the tail while moving the cockpit forward. As a mockup was prepared, the problems of gun gas injestion became known to the I.Ae design team. Accordingly, the side intakes were moved to the extreme nose with the intention of installing the armament on the fuselage sides. However, by  this time, it was apparent that no domestic turbojet design would be forthcoming.

The I.Ae.27 airframe was redesigned for a larger Rolls-Royce Derwent turbojet. At this stage, design work was taken over by Émile Dewoitine (who arrived at Córdoba in 1946, fleeing prosecution for collaboration in France). Along with accommodating the Derwent, Dewoitine designed an all-new wing. The revised design flew as the prototype
I.Ae.27 Pulqui I but, with its new wing, the last direct connection to the D.520 series came to an end.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: arc3371 December 18, 2012, 09:35:50 AM
Interesting and I love your stories
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia December 18, 2012, 01:37:26 PM
Cheers arc'.  No background story on this one ... I didn't even come up with a decent name. Any suggestions?
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Logan Hartke December 18, 2012, 02:07:07 PM
How about "Blixten"?  It means "lightning bolt" in Swedish, I believe.

Cheers,

Logan
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: raafif December 18, 2012, 02:48:12 PM
the I.Ae.27 jet looks great !  I think that partial drawing with frontal intake would be the one for the Argies to use on a production aircraft -- that seems to be the way they think :)  Of course a bit more sheet-metal around that engine wouldn't go astray either ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Empty Handed December 18, 2012, 09:29:14 PM
EH: Absolutely! As soon as that 1984-era  Tornado F2 had a lock on with its top-shelf Blue Circle radar, that poor Sleipnir would be toast  ;D

You are right. I suppose I'll just have to leave it to the Nimrods to 9Lima their arses after they've nuclear depth bombed iceland's rubber dingy collection! Mwuhahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PS The Argentine Dewoitine is rather nice!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: upnorth December 18, 2012, 10:36:13 PM
That Argentine Dewotine  is gorgeous! kind of looks more Italian than French in origin though, Looks like something that might have come off the Fiat line.

It also gives me a bit of inspiration for a new fighter I'm trying to cook up for my "Stealing the Stuka" story.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe December 19, 2012, 07:58:19 AM
The prototype I.Ae.26, combining French-made and Argentine parts, flew in December 1945.
:-* I love this one. Belated congratulations!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia December 19, 2012, 12:05:18 PM
Thanks folks!

Logan: I'm liking Blixten ... it fits but, also, it's just a cool looking word  :D

raafif: Agreed on the snub-nosed version for the Argies. I was aimed at a halfway house between the long-nosed original and the RW I.Ae.27 Pulqui I.

EH: "Hard a-starboard, hard a-starboard! Icelandic rubber dingy collection trying to ram!"  ;D

upnorth: Spot on! The Tifone is in a slightly modified Fiat G.55 cowling ;)  Looking forward to seeing what you cook up for a "Stealing the Stuka" fighter.

Tophe: Thanks, I enjoyed that one too. I've got a few more Dewoitine evolution ideas but they will be French scenarios.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia December 20, 2012, 08:28:05 AM
http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=351.msg33985#msg33985 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=351.msg33985#msg33985)
I forgot to mention in my D.520-based Pülü entry, that there was a Real World Dewoitine-related I.Ae.26. The Proyecto I.AE. 26 has a convoluted parentage. In 1944, Émile Dewoitine went to Spain with his D.550 project (a 1,300 hp D.520 derivative). Hispano Suiza built a mockup as their HS-50. When the Buchon was chosen instead, Dewoitine took a development (the D.600) to Argentina. The D.600 because the RW I.Ae.26 which was to be powered by a DB601A.

Here's an oldie to illustrate the real I.Ae.26 proposal:
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Logan Hartke December 20, 2012, 08:38:59 AM
That's pretty interesting.  I like it.

Cheers,

Logan
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe December 20, 2012, 08:46:49 AM
Great! :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia December 20, 2012, 01:35:11 PM
Thanks lads. These unbuilt projects are sort of like whifs ... or that's what I tell myself  ;)

Shipboard Dewoitine D.520 Derivatives for the Aéronautique Navale

The Dewoitine D.780 (another real project) was intended to provide a modern naval fighter for PA-16 carriers, the Joffre and Painlevé. In reality, the Aéronautique Navale received only standard D.520s. But this is whifland ... so, here is  the prototype Dewoitine D.780. After its sea trials aboard the Béarn, the D.780 was transferred to Esq AC3 at BAN Cuers-Pierrefeu in SE France.

Later, AC3's D.520s and the D.780 were joined by the first 2-seater, the prototype D.782 (a whif). Intended as a light attack fighter for the Joffre, the D.782 lacked the manoeuvrability of the single-seaters. To acheive a better balance, the ventral radiator bath was to be moved to the nose. The prototype was returned to Toulouse but the conversion work had just began when France fell to the Wehrmacht.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe December 21, 2012, 12:44:12 AM
I like this 2-seater added to the family, thanks!
(Could you maybe make from it a training version without machine gun?)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Cliffy B December 21, 2012, 03:17:06 AM
Love the naval version!!!  That two seater needs some ordnance  8)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia December 21, 2012, 01:36:24 PM
Tophe: There was no trainer version of the D.792. Perhaps you were thinking of the D.580 two-seat trainer?

The Dewoitine D.580 began as a 1939 study but, due to pressures to produced D.520s, the trainer was not built until after WWII. The production D.580, powered by a 572 hp Renault (SNECMA) 12S, served with the Escadrons d'Instruction en Vol at EPAA (École de pilotage de l'armée de l'air), BA Cognac Châteaubernard. The armed D.591 served as colonial aircraft and armaments trainers.

The pre-war D.590 avion de course followed on from the D.550 racer but was a slightly larger to accommodate more fuel. Power was a specially boosted Hispano-Suiza 12Y-61AC, producing  1800 hp at low altitude. Evaporative cooling was used. The D.590, F-ADEW, flew briefly in early 1940 before being grounded for the duration of the war.

[BTW, both the D.580 and D.590 were real projects ... but I have absolutely no idea what they woiuld have really looked like!]
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe December 21, 2012, 01:53:27 PM
[BTW, both the D.580 and D.590 were real projects ... but I have absolutely no idea what they woiuld have really looked like!]
Do you want me to check my Trait d'Union magazines collection? Maybe they're illustrated inside.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia December 24, 2012, 01:19:45 PM
Do you want me to check my Trait d'Union magazines collection? Maybe they're illustrated inside.

That would be much appreciated Tophe ... I'd love to know what they actually looked like. With any luck, mine will look nothing like them  ;D
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe December 24, 2012, 02:52:16 PM
I have checked the index and, sorry, D.580 & D.590 are just mentionned without picture, in issues 190, 191, 192 of Trait d'Union... Maybe your drawings will be used by future historians...
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia December 26, 2012, 11:01:29 AM
Thanks for checking Trait d'Union Tophe! If future historians use my images, I'll be persona non grata over on Secret Projects  :o

Does anyone remember the Dewoitine D.527 C1, a 1/48 resin kit whif by Pend Oreille Models (PR4835)? I was intrigued  by the concept but wondered whether they got the wing placement. Pend Oreille moved the P-51A's laminar flow wing aft on the D.520. Based on the Spiteful, I'd have thought the wing should be moved forward (can any of the
engineers confirm which is right?)

Anyway, I decided to have a whack at the D.527 myself. My version (based on a pair of D.520s by Georges Olivereau)  has the Mustang wing pushed forward. For fun, I also decided to adapt the P-51A radiator bath and retractable tail  wheel.

The second aircraft I've called the SNCAM M.521M. Here I'm imagining that Midi was not absorbed by SNCASE and that, desparate for a postwar product, the firm attempted an update of the Merlin-engined D.521. The M.521M has a Packard  V-1650-7 in a P-51D derived cowling and radiator bath matched with a P-47D bubble canopy.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe December 26, 2012, 11:15:15 AM
I love your new ones, both, while my favourite is the 521M :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: ChernayaAkula December 26, 2012, 11:32:55 AM
I love your new ones, both, while my favourite is the 521M :-*

My thoughts as well. Simply gorgeous!  :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: elmayerle December 26, 2012, 11:40:36 AM
I'd have to view comparative details on the aircraft involved (cg location, quarter-chord line intersection with aircraft centerline, etc.) to give an intelligent answer.  As a rough quesstimation, if the new engine weighs close to what the old one did, then as long as the new wing's quarter chord line crosses the aircraft centerline at the same location that the line for the old wing did, I'd call it "good".  Now if the new engine shifts the cg, then you have to start moving things around.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: raafif December 26, 2012, 12:58:34 PM
I like both the D.527 & M.521M :-*   The 521 fuselage looks a bit wrinkled tho - did it have a crash  ??? ;D
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: dy031101 December 26, 2012, 01:10:55 PM
Putting that M.521M side-by-side with a P-51D and a P-40Q...... um......

It's like joining a club!  :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Empty Handed December 27, 2012, 12:51:57 AM
The M.521 is nice! I love the idea of SNCAM remaining a separate entity!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia December 27, 2012, 09:32:05 AM
I like both the D.527 & M.521M :-*   The 521 fuselage looks a bit wrinkled tho - did it have a crash  ??? ;D

Yes, the M.521M was a rebuilt 520 with a healthy parts injection from the local USAAF scrapyard. Rejected for postwar French service, SNCAM rebuilt her once more as a test article for V tail. SNCAM referred to this conversion as the AE-EFV (l'avion expérimental - empennage en forme de V).

The AE-EFV didn't last long but donated its tailplane to a D.520 for modified for prone-pilot trials. The latter received no designation but was referred to as the AE-PCV (l'avion expérimental - pilotage couché, sur le ventre) or simply the  «baignoire».  More to come ...
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe December 27, 2012, 09:58:48 AM
Apophenia, I love your PCV model...
Just a question, as your French seems so perfect: are you a French man joking with the famous PCV letters? (see http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCV_(t%C3%A9l%C3%A9phonie) (http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCV_(t%C3%A9l%C3%A9phonie)) ). In France this is very famous for phone calls paid by the receiver. I prefer your own PCV, nicer... ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: upnorth December 27, 2012, 05:01:52 PM
Those M521 profiles are all great! Looks like a real sports car.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia December 30, 2012, 12:17:40 PM
Apophenia, I love your PCV model...
Just a question, as your French seems so perfect: are you a French man joking with the famous PCV letters? (see [url]http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCV_(t%C3%A9l%C3%A9phonie)[/url] ([url]http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCV_(t%C3%A9l%C3%A9phonie))[/url] ). In France this is very famous for phone calls paid by the receiver. I prefer your own PCV, nicer... ;)


Thanks Tophe, that's hilarious. And it's even better, in Québec, it's AFV (appel ŕ frais virés not Armoured Fighting Vehicle)  ;D

As for my 'perfect' French, former teachers would either find that equally hilarious or just running shrieking with despair  ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 01, 2013, 12:52:28 PM
The next D.520 instalment. The SNCAM M.520C was a pylon racer meant to showcase Midi at the 1946 National Air Races in Cleveland. The M.520C started well but had to retire due to ignition problems with its HS.12Z-150 engine. Hispano-Suiza promised a new powerplant based on the HS.12Z-89 for the 1947 race season but this engine never appeared.

The HM.781 ACS was a less ambitious racer meant to train French pilots for post-war Schneider Cup races. The aircraft was essentially a rebuilt D.520 airframe matched to the floats of the pre-war HD.780 (with lengthed pylons containing coolant radiators). Alas, the Coupe Schneider was not resumed and no dedicated French racing seaplane was designed. The unmarked HM.781 was transferred to the Aéronavale. It was to be rebuilt with a bubble canopy but was badly damaged in a heavy landing before that could occur.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Logan Hartke January 01, 2013, 02:25:05 PM
Those are gorgeous apophenia!  I think they're my favorites of the recent French birds.

Cheers,

Logan
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe January 01, 2013, 06:39:42 PM
Beautiful addition!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: upnorth January 03, 2013, 06:37:09 PM
Now that M.520C racer is pure WHIFF porn!  :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 05, 2013, 09:50:02 AM
Thanks folks. The following are likely the last of my belaboured Dewoitine musings ...

After proving the prone-pilot concept, the AE-PCV testbed (see post #701) was rebuilt as the M.520TP (Turbo-Propulseur) to flight test the new SNECMA-Rateau TB.1000 turboprop engine. The goal was to demonstrate the main powerplant installation for a proposed SNCAM 'Propulsion Mixte' attack aircraft to Aéronavale's 1947 specification. This  M.900PM (intended for new PA28 carriers) would have a nose-nosed TB.1000 producing 1450 shp for take-off plus 570  lbs of thrust. This was boosted by a tail-mounted Atar R.102 Hestia turbojet producing another 2,500 lbs of thrust.

The M.900PM's turboprop installation was a complete success but the TB.1000 engine proved capable of only 1240 shp (+550 lb.st) and as little as 940 shp (+ 190 lb.st) at cruising speed. While there was hope for performance improvements from the TB.1000 turboprop, SNECMA elected to concentrate on its larger Atar R.101 turbojet and to stop further development of the R.102 Hestia. That brought the planned M.900PM to a halt, Aéronavale choosing rival designs from Breguet and Nord-Aviation instead.

In the meantime. SNCAM had developed a straightforward turbojet derivative of the D.520 incorporating the AE-PCV prone-pilot position. The M.780 was intended as a simple, rough-field attack aircraft. D.520 wings were retained as was the tail arrangement from the M.521V. Power was to be provided by a single Atar R.100 an improved SNECMA variant of the wartime BMW 003 turbojet. The M.780 did not especially interest the AdlA -- the armament choice of  four smaller Matra MG 151 20mm cannons being one cause for concern. But it was a moot point since SNECMA would  soon cancel its R.100 to focus on Atar R.101 development.

For those keeping record, the SNECMA-Rateau TB.1000 turboprop was real (although it was eclipsed by the AS Mamba) as was the contest for a new attack aircraft for PA28 carriers. The latter led to the Breguet Br.960 Vultur prototypes (which, although unsuccessful, inspired the ASW Alizé). Other than the Atar 101, the turbojets are pure whif -- SNECMA's work sprang from the BMW 003 but, AFAIK, they had no intention of actually producing the German type. The 'R.102 Hestia' was, of course, inspired by the later RW Atar R.105 Vesta, a reduced-scale Atar 101.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 14, 2013, 09:22:29 AM
I've been playing with an AltHist notion where Airbus Industrie aligns itself with elements  of the Russian/CIS aircraft industry in the early-mid '90s. The result was Airbus Rus.

The first products from the Airbus Rus consortium were traded-in A300s and A310s rebuilt to  suit Russian operating conditions. This led to the A300R and A310R models fitted with
Lotarev/Ivchenko-Progress D-18T engines.

Work on domestic aircraft began with the westernization of Ilyushin Il-76 military transports. For the civilian cargo market, Airbus Rus concentrated on adapting the Il-76 airframe to twin high-bypass turbofan engines. The object was greater fuel efficiency and simplified maintenance. Prototype testbeds were designated AR76x.

For the western market, the powerplants would be GE CF6-45s and '50s or P&W JT9D-7Rs (initially 'recycled' from the A300R/A310R conversion program). For the domestic Russian
and CIS markets, the powerplant would be D-18T (shown here).
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: ChernayaAkula January 15, 2013, 01:09:56 AM
Love it!  :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin January 15, 2013, 02:39:56 AM
Interesting concept.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: upnorth January 15, 2013, 03:26:31 AM
Looks a bit like a Kawasaki C-1 on steroids.

Cool stuff! :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: elmayerle January 15, 2013, 08:13:51 AM
makes you wonder about a similar update to C-141B's with two of the same engines going into the C-5M.  Mind you, I had considered an upgraded C-141B using 4XCFM56 engines and with a mod forward of the refueling receptacle to add a probe allowing use of any tanker aircraft out there.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin January 15, 2013, 05:57:25 PM
makes you wonder about a similar update to C-141B's with two of the same engines going into the C-5M.  Mind you, I had considered an upgraded C-141B using 4XCFM56 engines and with a mod forward of the refueling receptacle to add a probe allowing use of any tanker aircraft out there.

Good suggestion.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 16, 2013, 06:34:43 AM
Thanks folks. More to come from Airbus Rus ...  ;)

... I had considered an upgraded C-141B using 4XCFM56 engines and with a mod forward of the refueling receptacle to add a probe allowing use of any tanker aircraft out there.

The USAF does seem to be unwaveringly hostile to anything but flying booms. Maybe this probed aircraft belongs to US SOFCOM?  >:D
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 17, 2013, 11:11:04 AM
More on the Airbus Rus scenario ...

The first 'new build' AR760 series airlifter was the AR765 Atlas which which grafted the FBW cockpit of the Airbus A310 onto the AR760 fuselage. The opportunity was also taken to reduce flightcrew to two (+ loadmasters) and slightly lengthen the cargo hold.

The AR765 Atlas was aimed at both the western markets -- both military and civilian heavy lift cargo carriers. The prototype (RA-765001) was flown with GE CF6-50 engines. But, prior to this, the cockpit arrangement had been tested on a Il-76TD 'mule', the AR76x-04A (inset).
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: upnorth January 17, 2013, 07:13:43 PM
That's looking awesome!

I always thought the Il-76 glass nose was anachronistic, this is definitely a good fix for that.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: ChernayaAkula January 18, 2013, 12:25:09 AM
Soooo cool!  8)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 18, 2013, 06:06:10 AM
Thanks folks!

I always thought the Il-76 glass nose was anachronistic, this is definitely a good fix for that.

Cheers 'north. Apparently the RW Il-476 for the RuAF still has a five-man flight deck! In really rough-field conditions, that lower glazing can be practical (I recall a video of a leased Il-76 -- supplying Cap Nord in Greenland -- where the nav is talking the pilots down to ground level. The view from the nav station was astonishing).

But, that glass nose "ain't gonna make it with anyone anyhow" in the West. So, in goes the Airbus glass cockpit. I'm imagining unassembled A310 nose frames and skins being shipped from Aerospatiale Matra's Méaulte plant to Aviastar Ulyanovsk (or maybe initially Tashkent). There, the nose from front bulkhead to cockpit rear would be assembled with a new aft-of-cockpit section ultimately conforming to the size and shape of the Il-76 fuselage.

More to come on Airbus Rus ...
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe January 19, 2013, 01:03:14 AM
Thanks folks. The following are likely the last of my belaboured Dewoitine musings ...
M.520TP
M.780
Belated congratulations. The notify tool failed to wake me up and come seeing and clapping my hands... :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 19, 2013, 12:29:40 PM
More on the Airbus Rus scenario ...

Airbus found several export customers for militarized versions of the AR765 Atlas. But a dedicated 'Atlas M' had also been planned specifically for military users. This variant was closer in origin to the original IL-76 concept being a four-engined airlifter with a rough field capability (albeit now with Western systems and CFM56 engines).

The first order for the Atlas M came from Canada. This was a temporary lease arrangement for four AR764 models. These were AR764 models converted from used IL-76TDs. Designated CC-176A Alquonquins by the Canadian Forces, these tanker transports equipped 435 Squadron based at CFB Edmonton.

Canada's leased AR764s were phased out as new-build AR768s arrived. These were designated CC-176B and equipped both 435 Sqn in Edmonton (as dedicated strategic transports) and 402 Sqn in Winnipeg (and tanker-transports).

The first air force to order the AR768 was the RAAF (which had a chance at a close-up look at the CC-176A during the INTERFET deployment to East Timor). Australian orders were placed for six AR768s in 2002. By Nov 2004, the first AR768 Paipans (Ibis) were re-equipping No 35  Squadron.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Logan Hartke January 19, 2013, 12:43:57 PM
Not too far from your Modest Proposal many years ago.

Cheers,

Logan
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin January 19, 2013, 02:59:22 PM
 :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: finsrin January 19, 2013, 06:07:00 PM
SNCAM M.520TP  8) :-*   and SNCAM (Midi) M.780  8) :-*
Those would be sweet in styrene parked on flightline.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: JP Vieira January 19, 2013, 07:22:51 PM
Plentiful of great ideas
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Empty Handed January 19, 2013, 07:29:44 PM
Great idea with the Atlas!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Doom! January 20, 2013, 01:22:33 AM
You have sure been putting out a lot of great stuff lately, I too am amazed at what a difference getting rid of all that glass up front made. 
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 22, 2013, 01:32:58 PM
Thanks folks!

A part of the Airbus Rus agreement was that Airbus Industrie would assist its Russian partners in developing a replacement for the RuAF An-12 tactical transport fleet. The AR800
series emerged as a scaled-down AR760 using many of the components of the AR765 Atlas.

It had been planned that the RuAF service variant would be the base AR800 but the intended Aviadvigatel PD-14 powerplants had fallen seriously behind schedule. Instead, the AR80x prototype was fitted with larger (but similar output) Aviadvigatel PD-90A turbofans, resulting in the AR801.

The civilian AR810 was similar to the AR801 but fitted with Western equipment and CFM56 engines. Athough not expecting a large market for a civilian version, Airbus Rus found no
takers for the AR810 at all. That was, in part, because this model had been eclipsed.

Amongst the AR800 series' inherited AR760 partswas the undercarriage (albeit now reduced to twin main gears each with four tires). That rather complex landing gear arrangement did not appeal to potential Western users of a tactical transport. A re-design was required to break into the emerging Hercules/Transall replacement market.

The AR80x prototype was stripped of its main gear and rebuilt with a multi-legged gear supplied by the Safran Group. This undercarriage was identical to the Transall C160NG units by Messier-Dowty (but with three pairs rather than two). The result was the A820 Altai.

The first customer for this new CFM56-powered variant was France. In the Armée de l'air, the AR820F Armagnac serves with only two escadrons de transport, these being ET 2/61 Franche-Comté (at BA 123 Orléans-Bricy) and 2/64 Anjou (at BA 105 Évreux-Fauville).
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: upnorth January 22, 2013, 02:15:41 PM
Very nice.

That seriously looks like some relative of the Kawasaki C-1 transport.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 26, 2013, 05:10:03 AM
Thanks 'north. That's what I was going for ... taking some Ilyushin bits and hopefully ending up half way between the Kawasaki and Embraer's KC-390.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Slerski January 28, 2013, 07:58:14 PM
Is it possible to have some for the French Air Force ?  ;D
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 29, 2013, 11:33:43 AM
Mais oui, certainement! But we wouldn't want to force Airbus Military into any unseemly haste with the A400M, would we?  ;D
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: M.A.D February 03, 2013, 11:24:17 AM
Thanks lads. These unbuilt projects are sort of like whifs ... or that's what I tell myself  ;)

Shipboard Dewoitine D.520 Derivatives for the Aéronautique Navale

The Dewoitine D.780 (another real project) was intended to provide a modern naval fighter for PA-16 carriers, the Joffre and Painlevé. In reality, the Aéronautique Navale received only standard D.520s. But this is whifland ... so, here is  the prototype Dewoitine D.780. After its sea trials aboard the Béarn, the D.780 was transferred to Esq AC3 at BAN Cuers-Pierrefeu in SE France.

Later, AC3's D.520s and the D.780 were joined by the first 2-seater, the prototype D.782 (a whif). Intended as a light attack fighter for the Joffre, the D.782 lacked the manoeuvrability of the single-seaters. To acheive a better balance, the ventral radiator bath was to be moved to the nose. The prototype was returned to Toulouse but the
conversion work had just began when France fell to the Wehrmacht.

Wow what a fantastic and detailed profiling work Apophenia!
I am completely and utterly impressed by your detail in the wing-folding effort!!

M.A.D   
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia February 04, 2013, 08:07:35 AM
Cheers! That wing-fold mechanism was actually stolen off an obliging Avenger. Truth be told, I'm not quite sure how you'd arrange the folding of a single-spar wing like the Dewoitine  :o
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: elmayerle February 04, 2013, 09:36:55 AM
Cheers! That wing-fold mechanism was actually stolen off an obliging Avenger. Truth be told, I'm not quite sure how you'd arrange the folding of a single-spar wing like the Dewoitine  :o
Something like that of the Avenger would be the most probable, with some interesting fittings and structure at the folding joint.  I suspect, though, that there'll be some interesting locking mechanisms there to prevent problems.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia March 28, 2013, 10:24:52 AM
Hello folks, it's been quite a while ...

I'm going to ease back in with another Airbus Rus offering. This time, the AR769 Atlas Airfreighter bought by Air Canada Cargo to replace DC-8-73(F)s. The Atlas Airfreighter introduced a swing-nose allowing cargo carriers to unload pallets and containers rapidly at airports. Most carriers opted for the twin CF6 AR770 Atlas Airfreighter but Air Canada chose to retain the four engines of the Atlas M.

Other than minor electronics changes, deletion of some military equipment, and the use of CFM56-5A5 turbofans (as per ordered A319s), the Air Canada AR269 Atlas Airfreighter was almost identical to the Canadian Forces' CC-176A Alquonquin (AR768) strategic airlifter.  This simplified R&O which Air Canada was contracted to perform for the CF.

http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=351.msg36672#msg36672 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=351.msg36672#msg36672)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe March 28, 2013, 11:21:49 AM
Pleasant and useful while...

The Atlas Airfreighter introduced a swing-nose allowing cargo carriers to unload pallets and containers rapidly at airports.
this swing nose avoids the need for a twin-boom layout alas... ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Litvyak March 28, 2013, 12:31:41 PM
That looks awesome!! First thing I've seen to look good in the overall white+green tail+leaf AC scheme!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: upnorth March 28, 2013, 09:43:45 PM
Good to see you back in the profiling game!

Nice machine to make a comeback with too.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: jorel62 March 28, 2013, 09:52:24 PM
Outstanding.......
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia March 30, 2013, 12:05:24 PM
Thanks folks! Now, spinning off from Greg's 'The Death or Glory Boys' storyline:
http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=2852.msg42147#msg42147 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=2852.msg42147#msg42147)

The urgency with with the Me 163K was produced allowed Klemm little opportunity to refine the  design. An ongoing concern was diminishing rudder control while on approach to hook the ship's 'Fangleine' cable. To address this problem, Me 163K V47 was fitted with a twin V tail  to increase rudder effectiveness.

Trials with V47 were successful but neither the Luftwaffe nor the Kriegsmarine was willing to see Katapultjäger production  interrupted to introduce the new tail on the assembly line. Instead, Klemm began studying variations on the then-current Katapultjäger approach.

Two projects dovetailed. The first was tentative exploration of the use of near-vertical take-off ramps for the Me 163K. This more compact arrangement would mean that a greater
variety of merchant ships could be adapted as Katapultschiff für Raketenjäger.

The exploration of near-vertical take-off ramps led directly to an October 1944 proposal for a semi-disposable rocket fighter to rival Erich Bachem's BP-20 concept. Unlike 'Projekt
Natter
', the Klemm raketenjäger was to be based at sea in the flightpath of Allied bombers.  Launched from anchored barges (or flak ships), the so-called 'hlojäger' would attack the Terror Flieger with podded R4M rocket projectiles.

Acknowledging the difficulties encountered with hooked landings by relatively experienced  Katapultjäger pilots, Klemm abandoned hooks for the 'hlojäger'. Instead, the semi-trained pilot would jettison the main body of the fighter (for recovery by parachute) before exiting his prone-position armoured cockpit capsule to hit the silk. The Technisches Amt der Luftwaffe saw the benefits of basing rocket interceptors at sea but Klemm's Me 163-based 'hlojäger' was judged too expensive in both time and materials to be considered semi-disposable.

Undeterred, Klemm design staff turned their attention back to improving their Katapultjäger. For this new approach, the hlojäger's prone pilot position was retained but a smoothly aerodynamic perspex nose cap replaced the earlier concept's faceted panzerglas. The goal was  to reduce the Katapultjäger's frontal area, reduce the strain on pilots during violent launch and recovery, while providing pilots with a clear view of the Fangleine while attempting to 'hook on'. This Katapultjäger development the Technisches Amt approved of.

Klemm received instructions to transition production from the Me 163K-2 to their revised design which was to be designated the Kl 151B (in an attempt to convice Allied intelligence
that Klemm was reviving an earlier light touring aircraft concept). With  Me 163K V47 being considered an aerodynamic prototype, the first true Neue Katapultjäger was a pre-production Kl 151B-0. Unfortunately for the Katapultflieger, only a handful of Kl 151B-0s were delivered  before the Klemm factory was destroyed by Allied bombing. Full production Kl 151B-1s featured additional armament options and lengthed ventral fins but all were destroyed on the line.

: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Cliffy B March 30, 2013, 12:19:26 PM
Really liking these Komets on cats man!!!  Seeing as how the underside is already sort of boat hull shaped, how about a sculpting it completely and having them simply make water landings and then get craned aboard ship?  I know unpowered water landings aren't the safest but they sound like they might be a better option then the hook.  Just my $0.02  Looking forward to more Komets  8)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia March 30, 2013, 12:28:59 PM
Thanks Cliffy. I was wondering about water landings too but Greg reckoned that the impact of touch-down would likely detonate any remaining rocket fuel. I wonder what, if any, effect sea water would have on remaining T-stoff (or C-stoff)?
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: finsrin March 30, 2013, 12:31:04 PM
Really liking these Komets on cats man!!!  Seeing as how the underside is already sort of boat hull shaped, how about a sculpting it completely and having them simply make water landings and then get craned aboard ship?  I know unpowered water landings aren't the safest but they sound like they might be a better option then the hook.  Just my $0.02  Looking forward to more Komets  8)

Most anything can function better when its built with pixals or styrene.  Its when you build 1/1 scale in metal (etc) that problems are most difficult to fix.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin March 30, 2013, 02:32:59 PM
 :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: jorel62 April 01, 2013, 06:33:27 AM
Great work....
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia April 08, 2013, 12:24:15 PM
In August 1940, a purchasing commission from Finland made its way to Paris to try to acquire aircraft for the Ilmavoimat. This group was unsuccessful in convincing the Germans to deliver the Potez 633s and Koolhoven FK.58s promised to Finland by the French government. However, they were able to gather airframe spares for Ilmavoimat MS.406 fighters from storage at a Centre de réception des avions de série. This CRAS also held a surprise for the Finns.

Also in storage were 40 nearly complete Arsenal VG.33 fighters. The Luftwaffe had no interest in these wooden fighters and the Germans were happy to be rid of the airframes. Disassembled and packed onto Swedish freighters (at German insistance), the Arsenal fighters were shipped to Turku. By Oct 1940, these airframes (as well as some VG.33 airframes components collected from the CAMS plant at Sartrouville) had arrived at the VL plant at Tampere.

VL reassembled the four most complete Arsenal fighters with the available Hispano-Suiza 12Y-31 engines. These aircraft were designated D.33h by VL and dubbed Tuulihaukka (Kestrel). Under the Ilmavoimat coding system, these machines were the ALh. All D.33h had French armament consisting of four 7.5 mm wing guns and a 20mm HS.404 moteur-canon.

No further French engines could be gleaned but VL had secured stocks of Czech-made Avia 12Ydr motors. A further 16 fighters were finished as Avia-engined D.33a Tuulihaukka. These aircraft had 7.7 mm Browning wing guns and a single 12.7mm Browning firing through the hollow propeller shaft. All D.33h Tuulihaukka were eventually modified to D.33a standard (to free up French engines and armament for MS.406 spares).
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: upnorth April 08, 2013, 12:29:23 PM
Those are rather tasty.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia April 08, 2013, 12:39:09 PM
Cheer 'north  :D  Here's another pair ...

The Ilmavoimat were thrilled with the performance of its Tuulihaukka. The D.33 was faster than the MS.406 and manoeuvrable to boot. The D.33a model was rather weak on armament however. And all Arsenal fighters had limited ground clearance for their propellers (dating back to their light fighter origins). There was also the problem of sourcing suitable engines for continued Tuulihaukka 'production' at VL.

(Top: D.33a AL-19 carried a rare example of pin-up art on an Ilmavoimat aircraft. Pariisilainen (La Parisienne) was a common nickname for the little fighter from Sartrouville.)

In 1942, a solution for the engine shortage came from German 'war booty' stocks. A supply of Soviet Klimov M-105Ps were purchased from Germany, leading to to the D.33v (for 'venäläinen' or 'Russian'). This model substituted a Soviet 12.7mm Berezin UB machinegun for the engine-mounted Browning.

(Bottom: D.33v AL-14, a re-engined D.33a, is covered in temporary winter white paint. The ground crew have partly restored its fuselage code number and personal markings -- 'Kiroileva Kissa' (the 'Cursing Cat') -- a reference to its tempermental Soviet engine.)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: elmayerle April 08, 2013, 12:48:48 PM
Beautiful d.33 variants, all of them, and all of them very plausible.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin April 08, 2013, 05:32:28 PM
 :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: arc3371 April 09, 2013, 03:45:08 AM
I like that!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: jorel62 April 09, 2013, 04:31:28 AM
So very cool....
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia April 09, 2013, 07:29:31 AM
Thanks folks!

In its on-going search for suitable engines for the Arsenal fighter, VL naturally turned to Germany. The Daimler-Benz 601A was the most desirable engine type but in heavy demand. But, in 1942, production of the Bf 110C was winding down and stocks of DB601B might become available.

As it happens VL had access to a Bf 110C-4 of 1.(Z)/JG 77. This battle-damaged aircraft had left Rovaniemi to make its way south to the Reich for repair. Alas, this Bf 110 suffered a
starboard undercarriage collapse while landing at Tampere for refuelling. With Luftwaffe permission, it was decided to fit the Bf 110's port engine to a D.33 airframe in a trial
installation.

VL's D.33 test mule, AL-2 was chosen for the job. Thus far, AL-2 had been through each of VL's Tuulihaukka incarnations. The aircraft's reputation hit a low point when fitted with a particularly tempermental M-105P (earning it the unflattering nickname of 'Makki').

VL D.33d 'Mersuhaukka' ('Mercedes Hawk')

With its ailing Klimov removed, AL-2's firewall was modified to take the engine mounts from the Messerschmitt. Engine installation proceeded very smoothly and it was found that the Bf 110 cowling fit the airframe almost without modification. The result was the sole D.33d (top).

Trials with the new 'Mersuhaukka' went well but also highlighted weak points in the adaptation. Weight had to be added in the rear fuselage to balance the new engine installation. But, critically, previously-marginal ground clearance for the propeller had now become almost non-existant. Clearly this was not acceptable for a fighter intended to operate from rough, forward airfields.

Predictably, while taxiing on soft ground at Tampere, the  D.33d's prop tips clipped the turf and the fighter nosed in. With its DB 601B and engine mounts damaged, firewall broken, and forward fuselage damaged by the resulting fire, AL-2's days as a much-abused testbed were over.

Uuden Hävittäjän Projekti - the VL D.42w (Wasp-moottori) Concept

The UHP (New Fighter Project) was a study programme to develop an indigenous replacement fighter for the VL-built Fokker D.XXI. Work was well underway on Arvo Ylinen's Myrsky project but VL wanted a back-up scheme. One possibility was a radial-engined D.33 development utilizing stocks of existing Arsenal components.

The 'Mersuhaukka' had shown the dangers on reduced ground clearance but the D.33d's remains also suggested a fix. A team under Torsti Verkkola had previously studied the possibility of attaching an Arsenal wing to the Fokker D.XXI airframe. Why not apply the same concept to the D.33 itself? Accordingly, the fire-damaged section of the D.33d airframe was removed and a new, welded steel-tube fuselage section added.

The new fuselage section widened the fuselage to accomodate a P&W Twin Wasp (from German war booty stocks or Svenska Flygmotor STWC-3). More importantly, the frames presented a lowered mounting point for the Arsenal wing, thereby 'lengthening' the undercarriage. The remains of D.33d thus formed a rough mockup of the proposed D.42w which was presented to the Ilmavoimat technical staff. However, the Ilmavoimat saw no compelling reason to deviate from the Myrsky.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: jorel62 April 09, 2013, 08:45:38 AM
AWESOME JOB!!!!!!!!!!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia April 09, 2013, 10:14:27 AM
Cheers Jorel! You may have notice your influence on 'Pariisilainen' in Reply #750  ;D

Uuden Hävittäjän Projekti - the Daimler-Benz powered Tuulihaukka Derivatives


VL D.42d 'Mersuhaukka II' Concept

Another project under UHP was a refinement of the Arsenal airframe to better suit the German Daimler-Benz engine. Responding to the fate of the D.33d demonstrator, an entirely new undercarriage was adopted. This was the Italian Magnaghi system from the Ilmavoimat's Fiat G.50 'Fiiu' fighter. Also inspired by the Fiat was a new, steel-tube wing centre section (to whichwould be attached outer panels consisting of roughly the outer two-thirds of the original VG.33's wooden wing - increasing span to 13 m).

The new centre section attached to a lengthened Tuulihaukka fuselage. A DB 601E (or DB 605A) engine was to be installed in an almost unchanged Bf 109 cowling. The longer fuselage left space for an optional MG 151/20 motor-kanone as well as cowl-mounted 12.7 mm LKk/42 VKT machine guns (Browning M2 copies).

The new outer wing panels allowed fixed armament to be fitted inboard compared to the guns' original mounting points. This also meant more relative space between the spars allowing internally wing-mounted LKK/42 machine guns or MG 151/20. A light bomb rack could be fitted behind the retracted main wheels (since the D.33's central radiator had been replaced by twin Bf 109-style radiator baths outboard on either side of the centre section).

Ilvamoimat inspectors were very impressed with the D.42d concept but found it a somewhat over-elaborate development. It seemed to these officials that a simpler solution could be found by combining the features of the radial-engined D.42w and Daimler-powered D.42d.


The D.43d Haukka III

The D.43d was effectively a DB 605A-powered development of VL's stillborn D.42w concept. The basic Tuulihaukka fuselage and wing remained largely unchanged but the forward fuselage was now made up of welded steel tubes. The lowered wing gave the 3 metre diameter VDM 9 propeller the ground clearance it required.

A minor difference in the D.43d airframe was an enlarged vertical tailplane of simplified shape. The radiator was also enlarged and moved aft. This was to help restore balance (aided by some rearrangement of internal equipment). With all these changes, the Ilmavoimat redubbed the aircraft Haukka (Hawk) to differentiate the D.43d from earlier D.33 types still in service.

Haukka armament was to consist of twin LKk/42 machine guns. Optionally, a motor-kanone could be fitted as could four rifle-calibre wing guns. In the event, most D.43d were delivered to tactical recce units and mounted only the twin cowl guns. Those Haukka that did reach fighter units tended to have a third, engine-mounted LKk/42 although a few did receive the rarer MG 151/20 cannon.

'Justiina' (bottom) is a typical tactical recce D.43d Haukka. Note that, although the Ilmavoimat has applied a new 'HA' type code, the numerical sequence carries on from the D.33 types.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe April 09, 2013, 10:45:04 AM
 :-* Beautiful silhouettes! :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: arc3371 April 09, 2013, 10:25:36 PM
:-* Beautiful silhouettes! :-*
Indeed and a comment about the Myrski you mentioned. Had the Finnd had access to modern foreign designs as the VG.33 the Myrski (which was a very poor design) would either not be started or dropped as soon as the weakness of the design was obvious
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: jorel62 April 09, 2013, 11:56:39 PM
"Cheers Jorel! You may have notice your influence on 'Pariisilainen' in Reply #750"
I did notice that...... :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: JP Vieira April 10, 2013, 02:18:58 AM
Very Good. I always liked the Arsenal fighter
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia April 10, 2013, 12:51:26 PM
VL Arsenals in Foreign Markings

At least three VL-built Arsenal fighters flew in foreign markings.

Due to persistant engine troubles, several D.33v Tuulihaukka had to abandoned in Karelia during the retreat of 1944. Two of these aircraft were repaired by VVS ground crews and issued to the 20 IAP where they flew alongside the unit's Yak-9s west of Murmansk. Intended for use as hacks, the two captured Tuulihaukka actually saw combat.

Both VVS D.33v were used to lead an attack on the Finnish airfield at Petsamo. The Soviets were counting on these fighters being mistaken for returning Ilmavoimat aircraft. That proved true but the following Yaks took heavy ground fire from Finnish and German anti-aircraft batteries.

Aircraft No.2 (top) had been daubbed with the slogan "For Soviet Karelia!".

One D.43d was sent to Rechlin for testing by the Luftwaffe. German interest was primarily in the Haukka's wooden construction. The fighter arrived at Rechlin in August 1944 and was stripped of its underwing 20mm cannon 'kanootti'. Limited testing was undertaken before Finland agreed to the Sept 1944 armistice with the Soviet Union. With no chance for a supply of spares, the Haukka  was stripped of its German equipment and scrapped in November 1944.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: lauhof52 April 10, 2013, 01:25:17 PM
Beautiful made, those VL arsenal's  8)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Litvyak April 10, 2013, 09:10:43 PM
This recent bunch of Ilmavoimat aircraft has been great!

If you don't mind a minor nitpick, though? The slogan on the Russian one should have 'za', not 'dlya'.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: jorel62 April 10, 2013, 09:28:22 PM
Wow, they look great....
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia April 11, 2013, 03:57:18 AM
If you don't mind a minor nitpick, though? The slogan on the Russian one should have 'za', not 'dlya'.

Nitpick much appreciated Litvyak! I've corrected the image now. That's what I get for trusting Google Translate  :P

I decided to go back to Prompt for Russian translations but, weirdly, they gave me Для советской Карелии as well. But, put in 'For' by itelf and you get:  для, для того, чтобы, and, finally, за ...
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia April 11, 2013, 04:00:53 AM
Over in the 'Counter Insurgency Aircraft' thread on Ideas & Inspiration, there was some discussion of the single-seat Super Tucano.
http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=2875.msg43586#msg43586 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=2875.msg43586#msg43586)

Here's my quickie take on the 'A-29' (based on a handy FAB image of an A-29B on Wikipedia)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin April 11, 2013, 04:05:04 AM
Now blank off the rear completely.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia April 11, 2013, 04:38:18 AM
Will do, Chief!  :D
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin April 11, 2013, 05:59:49 AM
 :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: raafif April 11, 2013, 07:08:02 AM
somehow the blanked-off rear canopy doesn't look right to me - all too tall .....

now if you made it a single cockpit with a new much lower canopy & sent it pylon racing ;)  >:D
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: upnorth April 11, 2013, 12:56:13 PM
I have to agree with raafif here; the blanked off rear canopy just isn't working on the Tucano. It works on some planes, just not in this case.

I think blanking off the rear section of the canopy shouldn't really be required and would actually limit the flexibility of the airframe a bit.

Keeping a common canopy would reduce changes between trainer and combat capable variants. It would also make it easier to switch an airframe from one to the other role, presuming the combat mission specific gear could be packed into a modular package fitted to the rear cockpit that could be easily removed and leave the basic rear cockpit structures intact enough that it could be fitted to a trainer standard with relative ease and speed if need be.

Keeping a common canopy should also retain the same pilot visibility between variants so it could save the pilot the trouble of having to get used to any differences between the variants.

: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: elmayerle April 11, 2013, 01:08:01 PM
Palletize the mission specific gear so that it can be slid into the rear cockpit using the ejection seat tracks.  That way you keep maximum commonality and adaptability.  For certain B-2 missions, there's a similarly palletized kit that uses the third seat ejection seat rails.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe April 11, 2013, 11:32:57 PM
I love the new silhouette of the one with coloured rear canopy. I don't care about the pilot or his military work. Thanks to have enriched the family, even if no user would buy this one... ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia April 13, 2013, 04:34:26 AM
Thanks folks. Agreed on the rear decking ... I too prefer the glazed rear panel (although there wouldn't be much of a rear view, I don't think).

The 'solid' panel is more in line with other tandem twin converted to single-seaters like the MB-326K. For either canopy, I'm imagining the original Super Tucano cockpit opening remaining unchanged. The shape of the fairing behind the original canopy would have to be changed however.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia April 15, 2013, 11:52:15 AM
I've been musing on Messerschmitt/Mustang hybrids. No back-story or rationale (hence the lack of colour schemes) ... just wondering what they'd be like.

My first thought was a testbed based on captured P-51 components. Top, a Bf-109G rebuilt with a  P-51B radiator bath to see if it provided any performance benefits over the Messerschmitt's usual twin wing radiators. Bottom, the same airframe after being stretched to accommodate the  Mustang's laminar-flow wing.

I'd imagine that the first limitation encountered would be inadequate ground clearance for the DB605's propeller. And, of course, the Mustang wing only maintained laminar-flow when in ideal condition. So, more work was required at Messerschmitt AG to make this combo worth production.

I've called the production Messerschmitt/Mustang hybrid an Me-209 (III) to camouflage the development of yet another '109 evolution from the Luftwaffe's Technische Amt. This third  incarnation of the Me-209 employed the Me-410's larger DB603A engine. The Me-209 is employed as a pure fighter intended to combat enemy escorts to free Bf-109s and Fw-190s to attack the unattended bomber streams.

Compared with the base Bf-109G, the forward fuselage is longer which allows 20mm cannon cowl guns in place of machineguns. The larger cowl guns were, in part, possible because of the raised cockpit position (using an Me-262 canopy). Wing armament is restricted to one gun per side - due to longer undercarriage legs than the P-51. These undercarriage legs are based on Fw-190 components.

The initial production Me-209A-1 made use of DB603A engines surplus from diminished Me-410 production. Since these engines lack motor-kanone, armament is restricted to four 20mm guns. Later variants added an MG151, MK 103, or MK 108 motor-kanon.

BTW, the Bf-109G started off as a great blank by Simon Schatz. The Me-262 canopy I borrowed from Teodor Liviu Morosanu's Avia S.92.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe April 15, 2013, 12:07:21 PM
VERY interesting, thanks!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Logan Hartke April 15, 2013, 12:31:46 PM
I'll take 12 of each, thank you very much.  They already did that, though...

(http://www.submiturpics.com/images/ipkad897skcwa711eg1.jpg)

Cheers,

Logan
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: ChernayaAkula April 15, 2013, 09:10:10 PM
Wow!  :icon_surprised: Sooooo good!  :-*  :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: jorel62 April 15, 2013, 10:42:29 PM
Very cool.......
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia April 22, 2013, 07:04:26 AM
Thanks folks! Decided to 'colourize' the Me 209 (III) after all ...

Yellow 4 was a  Me 209A-2/R1 flown by Lt Gottfried Dietze. When 7/JG.26 moved to the Luftüberlegenheit role,  this unit converted from Fw 190D-9s to Me 209As. Ironically, Dietze was killed by strafing P-51Ds while attempting to scramble in Yellow 4 at Schwerin-Sülte airfield in late March 1945.

The personal marking is of Frau Gode, mistress of the Wild Hunt. Also known as the Boar Hound Goddess or Grimhild, the witch/sorceress, Frau Gode rode with hounds to spear the wild boar.

Black 2 was a Me 209A-4/U1(N) of I/NJG 11 flown by Fw H. Rauchensteiner in early April 1945. This unit, flying from Darmstadt-Biblis, specialized in anti-Mosquito patrols -- hence the  fuselage-top FuG 350 Naxos Z installation used to detect H2S radar emissions from the target-marking Mosquitos of 5 and 8 Groups.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin April 22, 2013, 01:39:40 PM
Has quite a Me309 look.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Brian da Basher April 23, 2013, 02:17:21 AM
Has quite a Me309 look.

Concur and I bet it's not long before someone kitbashes one of these!

Nice work, apophenia!

Brian da Basher
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: jorel62 April 23, 2013, 05:46:22 AM
WOW!!! nice.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia April 23, 2013, 01:07:09 PM
Has quite a Me309 look.

I was hoping it would  ;)  Here's another pair ...

Yellow 1 is a five-gunned Me 209A-1/R2 of 11/JG.53 flown by Lt Günther Landt from Kirrlach, Karlsruhe in March 1945.

'Hanna' is a brand new Me 209B-1 flown by the Gruppe Technischer Offizier (TO) of (Stab) II./JG6 from Fürth in northern Bavaria. This aircraft was destroyed on the ground on May Day, 1945.

Note the revised radiator arrangement for the Me 209B (incorporating the engine oil cooler as well as radiator). The handful of 'B series aircraft built also had relocated antenna masts for their FuG 16 ZY VHF transceivers.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: lauhof52 April 23, 2013, 02:19:21 PM
Top!! 8)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe April 23, 2013, 06:12:50 PM
Dear Apophenia, your inventive Messerschmitts are very beautiful, while... in several countries, we are not allowed to clap our hands for a swastika-wearing warbird... :(
But as a silhouette, I feel free to enjoy it, very inspiring! :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: dy031101 April 24, 2013, 12:07:48 AM
The Naxos Z looks...... R2D2-ish.  Neat.   :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: arc3371 April 24, 2013, 09:06:40 AM
Very cool looking 209´s
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: jorel62 April 24, 2013, 11:47:17 PM
Very cool......
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia April 28, 2013, 10:27:41 AM
... in several countries, we are not allowed to clap our hands for a swastika-wearing warbird... :(
But as a silhouette, I feel free to enjoy it, very inspiring! :-*

Thanks Tophe, the Me 209 fits right in. But here's a pair with a nary a swastika to be seen ... ;)

Czechoslovak Messerschmitt Me 209s

In March 1945, Skoda-Kauba Flugzeugbau was assigned production of the Me 209 to allow Messerschmitt to focus on the Me 262. Me 209 components were shipped to both Skoda-Kauba in Prague and the Otrokovice plant SE Moravia (the latter with the goal of creating a wooden Me 209 derivative). Neither program reached fruition before the fall of the Third Reich.

After the war, the Skoda plant gathered all Me 209 components in Czechoslovakia in an attempt to produce a fighter for the Czechoslovak Air Force. The difficulty for Skoda was lack of access to DB 603A engines for their fighter. The only suitable engine was the Jumo 211A and Skoda was forced to adapt the cowling from the competing Bf 109-based Avia S-199.

The CzAF tested one Skoda Sk.209 but had no intention of procuring the aircraft. Instead, this was a front for the transfer of all completed Sk.209's to the new state of Israel. Twelve Sk.209s were ordered but only nine (including Skoda's prototype) could be delivered (all in early June 1948).

In Israel, the Sk.209 'Kherev' (חרב 'Sword') fighters were issued to the Kheil HaAvir's new 101 Squadron where they would fly alongside Avia S.199s. Only three Kherev survived the 1948 war with a rather battered looking Dalet-227 (227-ד) being the only flying example. Fittingly, 101 Squadron's Kherev were replaced by Mustangs.   ;)

: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe April 28, 2013, 12:18:06 PM
I clap my hands loudly for the Ceskoslovak Me-209-II... :-*
Thanks! ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: perttime April 28, 2013, 03:22:50 PM
I like the DB nose on most things...
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: upnorth April 28, 2013, 05:46:22 PM
Those Czech 209s really look the business.

Too bad it was unsuccessfully pitched to the Czechoslovak air force. I'd love to have seen some in service schemes.  :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: jorel62 April 29, 2013, 02:15:57 AM
Now that is cool.......
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia April 29, 2013, 06:28:04 AM
Thanks folks.

Too bad it was unsuccessfully pitched to the Czechoslovak air force. I'd love to have seen some in service schemes.  :)

Thanks 'north. I reckoned that the Czechs were better off with the Mezek if the Jumo 211A was the only engine available to them. Now if they could get their hands on some Griffons ...  ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia April 29, 2013, 11:35:54 AM
Back to the Airbus Rus story ...

At an early stage, Airbus Rus and its partner Ilyushin had decided to relocate Il-76/AR76x production from the TAPO plant in Tashkent, Uzbekistan to the former Aviastar-SP plant in Russia. But Airbus Rus faced an additional challenge at Ulyanovsk ... the facility was cluttered with partially-completed Antonov An-124 components.

Having surveyed the available An-124 components, it was concluded that there were sufficient parts to complete most of three airframes with a useful supply of airframe spares. Airbus Rus put out feelers to industry only to discover that the market was limited for airlifters originating from Soviet-era parts.

In consultation with Volga-Dnepr Airlines, it was concluded that a niche market did exist for a super heavy lifter. Accordingly, the An-124-100 airframe was redesigned in cooperation with Antonov StC of the Ukraine. The resulting An-324 design had a much shortened fuselage. Combined with the standard An-124 wing and  engines, this would reduce airframe weight enough to boost the maximum payload to 160 tonnes.

All three An-324s were delivered to Volga-Dnepr which expected to use these super heavy lifters to carry loads for the oil and gas industry. However, a lucrative new market had emerged -- airlifting NATO main battle tanks to Afghanistan. As a result of that market, only one An-324 was ever painting in Volga-Dnepr's  livery. The other two operated as 'white tails' in and out of Kandahar.

[Based on a discussion about Antonovs with GTX]
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: arc3371 April 30, 2013, 08:51:31 AM
If I could only get one in AE.....
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Scooterman April 30, 2013, 10:41:30 AM
Oooooo and guess who has an idle An-124 kit.   ;)

LOVE the idea.  Well thought out.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia April 30, 2013, 12:57:38 PM
Oooooo and guess who has an idle An-124 kit.   ;)

Any Leopard tanks in the same scale?  :)  Get out that razor saw  ;D
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia April 30, 2013, 01:00:58 PM
Another Arsenal scenario: this time with Canadian-produced airframes intended for the Armée de l'air ...

Two freighters carrying semi-completed VG.33 C1 fighters left from Montreal in early June 1940 bound for Cherbourg. On 15 June, the MV Erik Boye was sunk in the North Atlantic by a U-boat's torpedo. The SS Port Williams escaped attack and, on 17 June 1940, was diverted first toward Southampton, then on to Bristol.

Offloaded at Bristol, the VG.33 airframes were directed to the plant of Parnall Aircraft Ltd. Pressed to make use of these exotic but engineless airframes, Parnall's concluded that the Arsenals could be quickly made airworthy as fighter-trainers. The search for suitable engines revealed a nearby store of well-worn RAF Hawker Fury biplanes. These aged aircraft could be safely stripped of their Rolls-Royce Kestrel engines and a worthwhile fighter-trainer created.

A prototype conversion dubbed the AAC (Arsenal Aircraft of Canada) Arrow made its first test hop on 23 July 1940. This aircraft adapted the Hawker cowling and engine bearers to the VG.33 airframe and retained the twin cowl Vickers guns of the Fury. While a quick fix, this solution was not acceptable to the RAF. Wing  guns were considered essential to make an adequate armaments trainer and interest was growing in the potential use of the Arrow as a 'panic fighter' should that become necessary.

The 'production' AAC Arrow Mk.IA trainers had cowlings adapted from the Master Mk.I trainer and six wing guns. The RAF would have preferrred .303" Browning guns but these were in short supply. Instead, the Arrow Mk.IA were fitted with ex-US .30" Marlin machine guns. These surplus guns were throught adequate for training but the elderly Marlins were prone to stoppages so it is as well that Arrow never had to perform in the 'panic fighter' role.

After the Battle of Britain, AAC and Parnall's approached the RAF with a proposal for a more capable Arrow  T.Mk.II fighter-trainer. This was to have a gun armament of eight Brownings and be powered by either a refurbished Rolls-Royce Merlin or a new RR Peregrine V-12. But, by this time, the RAF had war-weary frontline fighters to choose from for training and the Arrow  T.Mk.II concept was declined.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Litvyak April 30, 2013, 01:06:21 PM
Love those Arrows!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia April 30, 2013, 01:15:23 PM
Cheers Litvyak. As you may have guessed, some CanCon coming with the Arrows.  ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: arc3371 May 01, 2013, 06:12:18 AM
Great Arrows, could they be used as reinforcements for the FEAF?
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia May 01, 2013, 06:46:15 AM
Wait for it ...  ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe May 01, 2013, 07:04:07 AM
Beautiful VG.33s... Were those engine installations "French projects" or are they Apophenia dreams? Either way, they are marvelous. :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia May 01, 2013, 11:08:42 AM
Strictly "Apophena dreams"  :D  It seemed to make sense, though. If the Armée de l'air wants to order wooden fighters, why not order some airframes from one of the places where they keep all the trees?  ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: upnorth May 02, 2013, 01:10:38 PM
Very cool stuff going on with those Arrows! They look like some serious hot rods.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Brian da Basher May 07, 2013, 05:51:54 AM
Those Arrows look absolutely outstanding! If I had a Fiat G.50 in the stash, I might try copying it in 3D.

Most excellent, apophenia!

Brian da Basher
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia May 08, 2013, 09:48:20 AM
Having failed to attract the RAF with the AAC/Parnall Arrow Mk.II trainer, Arsenal Aircraft of Canada presented a similar, Merlin-powered fighter to the Royal Canadian Air Force. Canada had a pressing need for additional domestic fighters and the low strategic material content of the AAC proposal appealled to RCAF planners. However, the RCAF objected to the six-gun wing armament of the VG.33 derivative.

AAC had anticipated the armament objection and found a simple solution. The undercarriage of the Arrow derivative would simply be moved inboard (with retracted wheels almost meeting on the centre line). This allowed for a wing armament of up to eight machine guns. A bigger concern was that all available Merlin  engines were allotted to Canadian-produced Hawker Hurricanes.

After consultation with the RCAF, it was decided to substitute the Allison V-1710 powerplant. Installing this engine was comparatively simple since AAC was originally meant to supply Allison-powered VG.32 fighters to the French. The new fighter, now named the AAC Ares, developed quickly and differed in detail from the VG.32 -- aside from the revised undercarriage, the Ares also introduced twin, synchronized .50" cowl guns with another pair of 'fifties' in the new inboard wing positions.

The prototype Ares F.Mk.I (top) flew with a V-1710-33 engine in late May 1941. The first production Ares,  the F.Mk.IA with a six-gun wing armament, followed in September 1941. In the aftermath of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour, the F.Mk.IAs were quickly issued to West Coast fighter squadrons. The pressure was now on AAC to fully arm the Mk.IAs and field the eight-gunned Ares F.Mk.IB as soon as possible.

Bottom: AAC Ares F.Mk.IA (upgraded) of No.111 (Fighter) Squadron flying in defence of Vancouver harbour in late 1941.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Litvyak May 08, 2013, 10:02:30 AM
Love it!! Like, *love* it!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe May 08, 2013, 12:22:30 PM
Beautiful! :-*
Could you design someday a Twin-Arsenal with the port fuselage having no pilot (or having a radial engine)?
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: upnorth May 10, 2013, 01:44:24 PM
Top stuff as always! :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia May 13, 2013, 09:43:43 AM
Thanks folks. Here's a quickie 'sśur jumelle' for Tophe ...
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia May 13, 2013, 09:45:44 AM
Back to the Arsenal Aircraft of Canada story ...

Although much of the design work for the Ares F.Mk.IA was already done by the Arsenal VG.32, the Allison was not AAC's first powerplant choice. AAC's small design department saw more promise in a smaller engine,  the US Continental IV-1430 inverted V-12. This led to a design study known as the 'Ares Hyper'.

It was proposed that the IV-1430-1 powerplant be installed in a standard Ares F.Mk.I airframe. The engine would be fed by a Bendix-Stromberg PD-12P2 updraught carburettor (fed from an air intake in the ventral radiator bath).

The smaller IV-1420 allowed AAC to consider larger cowl guns. The proposed main armament was an aircraft version of the 20mm Polsten cannon to be made by John Inglis Ltd of Toronto. It was hoped that the lighter Polsten guns (along with the elimination of the intercooled GE turbocharger) would help offset the greater dry weight of the Continental engine.

A single Ares F.Mk.I airframe was temporarily converted into an 'Ares Hyper' mockup. However, in the end,  neither the IV-1420 engine nor the aircraft Polsten gun became production items. The 'Ares Hyper' became a 'widow' project with neither powerplant not main armament available to it.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe May 13, 2013, 09:53:11 AM
Thanks folks. Here's a quickie 'sśur jumelle' for Tophe ...
Very lovely! Thanks a lot! And congratulations...
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: lauhof52 May 13, 2013, 01:30:31 PM
Beautiful real!! :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia May 14, 2013, 10:26:58 AM
The Ares F.Mk.II was to have an Allison V-1710-F20R but development was delayed as Arsenal Aircraft of Canada focused on production of Mk.I fighters. For the Ares F.Mk.III series the Mk.I's V-1710-C15 engine was replaced by its USAAF equivalent (the V-1710-33) and US equipment substituted for much of the RCAF's preferred British kit.

The Ares F.Mk.III employed US equipment and armament for better integration with the USAAF supply lines in the Alaskan theatre. The Ares F.Mk.IIIA retained the armament of the Ares F.Mk.I but its machine gun-calibre Brownings switched to US .3" rounds. Intended to defend the coast of British Columbia coast, the Ares F.Mk.IIIB retained .303" machine guns.

(Top) This Ares F.Mk.IIIA of No.111 'Thunderbird' Squadron sports a range of Alaskan markings. The yellow spinner and vertical white stripes follows the example of fighters of the USAAF 11th FS. On the fuselage is the short-lived 'D' Type or 'Western Air Command' roundel. The wing 'A' and 'B' Type roundels were retained but had their red portions overpainted with white.

This aircraft is almost factory-fresh. A No.111 Squadron thunderbird 'totem' has been painted on its nose  but squadron codes are missing and the individual aircraft letter has only been chaulked on.

____________________


The Ares F.Mk.IIIC took US standardization another step. Armament now consisted of six .5" Brownings - two cowl guns, two wing guns, and a further two guns in underwing pods. While this considerably increased the Ares' weight of fire, underwing pods had a deleterious effect on both top speed and manoeuvrability. Many Mk.IIICs had their pod guns removed in the field. Some 'Cs had US Type Q2 bomb racks installed in place of the pods. Others flew as four-gun interceptors.

(Bottom) No.14 (F) Squadron took on Ares F.Mk.IIICs when it rotated from Sea Island, BC to the Alaskan theatre. This aircraft had its standard RCAF markings modified in the field. All trace of insignia red paint has been removed. Its roundels have been overpainted with white and even its tailfin red stripe has been covered over with a coat of fresh Ocean Grey.

The fuselage codes are slightly unusual on YA-F. The southern-style underscored squadron codes are retained but these are matched with an oversized individual aircraft letter (note that this 'F' has also been given a Dark Green outline where it overlaps the Sky fuselage band).

This Ares F.Mk.IIIC saw heavy use in the Aleutian campaign. Having operated from Adak and Amchitka Islands, this Ares left on its final mission from Umnak on 15 August 1943. The planned 'Rhubarb' over Kiska proved uneventful as the Japanese had already abandoned the island. However, on the return leg of the mission, Ares 9241 developed engine trouble and lost power. Plane and pilot were last seen descending through low cloud 20 miles NE of Kiska.
: CAMS Arrow
: apophenia May 17, 2013, 08:47:43 AM
By 1941, the Parnall Aircraft factory at Yate had become Frazer-Nash and was producing hydraulic gun turrets. But, as Frazer-Nash, the firm had inherited the support contract for RAF Arrow fighter trainers. The latter was a type that the RAF found it had little use for but, with the advent of the Catapult Aircraft Merchant Ship concept, a new role was suggested.

Frazer-Nash's initial proposal for a CAMS rebuild was rejected as existing Arrows had seen hard use at the hands of  student pilots and their 'recycled' Kestrel engines were already old when the Arrow conversions were first created.

Rejection of conversions raised the possibility of new-built CAMS Arrows. Parnall's had done some design work on an Arrow which re-used the Napier Dagger air-cooled engines from the Hawker Hector. That concept was resurrected for the catapult-launched Arrow. As with the Arrow fighter trainers, Canadian-made airframes would be provided with engines taken from RAF stores.

As Daggers had also become available from the Handley-Page Hereford re-engining programme, Frazer-Nash revised its original submission. The initially that that airframe finishes could be minimal (as the CAMS fighters were expected to be single-use aircraft) was abandoned in favour of painted finishes (including  RCAF schemes when already applied to semi-complete airframes). The Hector-style cowling was also revised (with the portside trough for a synchonized machine gun eliminated).

The worth of the 'Dagger Arrow' scheme was acknowledged as it made use of a low-strategic material airframe and now-unwanted powerplants. However, the Fleet Air Arm now had war-weary Fulmar and Hurricane fighters available for the CAMS role. No order was placed for the 'Dagger Arrow' and Frazer-Nash returned to producing aircraft gun turrets.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe May 17, 2013, 08:53:18 AM
Great addition, thanks! :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin May 18, 2013, 02:55:31 AM
 :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia May 19, 2013, 06:48:18 AM
Thanks folks! I forgot to mention that I 'borrowed' the CAMS catapult from a Herbert Ringlstetter profile of a 'Hurricat'  :-[
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia May 19, 2013, 01:18:05 PM
Arsenal Aircraft of Canada finally got access to a Packard-built Merlin engine when a CCF Hurricane Mk.X  was damaged on the ground in Edmonton. With permission of the RCAF, the 1,300 hp Merlin 28 was experimentally installed in a Ares Mk.Ib returned to the AAC facory with engine bearer damage.

Dubbed the 'Merlin Ares', this test mule proved considerably faster than the Allison-powered Ares. This aircraft was dispatched to Patricia Bay, BC, where it was to undergo trials as a tactical reconnaissance fighter as well as testing its experimental camouflage. Unfortunately, Ares 9327 suffered a landing accident on arrival at Pat Bay so no Tac-R trials could be undertaken and its 'Hun Scheme' was never tested over the Pacific.

(Top) The 'Merlin Ares' as orginally flown (armament and main wheel doors were fitted later).

Another Ares was converted to take the 'high' Allison V-1710-F3R engine. after engine trials, this aircraft was transferred to Bell Aircraft as the USAAF's XP-76B (42-21163). The XP-76B was used to test wooden airframe components for XP-77 (and potential parts substitution on P-63 Kingcobra). The Ares airframe was later tested to destruction at Bell's test facility at Buffalo, NY.

(Bottom) Bell XP-76B in factory-fresh USAAF applied at AAC's paintshop. Note US insignia incorrectly applied to all four wing positions (these were later painted out by Bell).
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Litvyak May 19, 2013, 01:39:05 PM
They're both great, but the Merlin Ares is gorgeous!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Empty Handed May 20, 2013, 06:22:23 AM
That Merlin Ares looks soooo right!!!!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: lauhof52 May 20, 2013, 03:32:56 PM
Bell XP_76B is outstanding!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: finsrin May 20, 2013, 04:15:58 PM
Bell XP_76B is outstanding!

So true.   All the right things came together for XP_76B  :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia May 22, 2013, 06:47:25 AM
By mid-1943, continued production of the Arsenal Aircraft of Canada Ares was in great doubt. Much of AAC's production capability had been turned over to the making of wooden Mosquito components for de Havilland Canada. American P-40 Kittyhawk fighters were readily available through Lend-Lease and the Ares itself required a new powerplant.

The XP-76B was a 'high nose' Allison mule but its V-1710-F3R engine was never intended for the 'base' Ares  airframe. Instead, AAC had been working towards a 'Big-Wing Ares' project. This would have a deeper chord wing allowing, among other things, a wing-mounted armament of six 0.5" Browning guns.

In late 1943, the 'Big-Wing Ares' was ordered into limited production for the RCAF as the Achilles F.Mk.I. Other than its high-nose Allison and bigger wing, the Achilles differed from the Ares in detail. By comparison, the  fuselage was slightly longer, the radiator bath enlarged, and the undercarriage revised. The main gear was
strengthened and the Achilles featured a completely new tailwheel installation (retracting forward rather than backwards).

(Top) Achilles F.Mk.I 9257 'Eastside Essie' showing standard West Coast RCAF fighter markings for 1944. Squadron codes are not being used and all red has been removed from insignia. Individual aircraft letter is in its new location ahead of the fuselage roundel. Note that, following USAAF practice, the portside underwing roundel has been omitted).

While the heavy gun armament was appreciated, the Allison-powered Achilles was no faster than the Ares. But this would change when Packard-built Merlin engines belatedly became available to Arsenal. The 'Merlin Ares'  installation was modified to accept a 2-stage Packard Merlin 68. Fitting the 1,300 hp Merlin produced the Achilles F.Mk.II which was ordered into production in late 1944. The final model was the Achilles F.Mk.IIA of  early 1945 which introduced an all-around vision canopy (based on that of the Hawker Typhoon but actually sourced from suppliers for the P-47 Thunderbolt).

(Bottom) Achilles F.Mk.IIA 9277 in the new interceptor finish adopted for West Coast RCAF fighters in late 1944. Similar to the experimental 'Hun Scheme' with the underside Medium Sea Grey extended up the fuselage sides (and, in this case, on the rudder as well). New roundels have also been adopted (the yellow ring has been eliminated and a US-style 'bar' incorporated). No.111 Sqn also carried its 'totem' emblem and old squadron code on the nose.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Litvyak May 22, 2013, 07:29:36 AM
Eastside Essie there has some interesting lines, but the Mk. IIA is nice and sharp!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Empty Handed May 22, 2013, 08:04:15 AM
The Merlin variant continues to impress (I'm biased & I DON'T CARE!!!).  :icon_music:
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe May 22, 2013, 03:04:14 PM
The bubble-top version is marvelous, thanks! :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia May 24, 2013, 02:39:35 AM
At the end of WWII, the RCAF stood down its West Coast fighter squadrons quite quickly. Near-new Achilles F.Mk.I fighters were offered for sale but the sole 'taker' was Nicaragua. Beginning in June 1946, ten Achilles F.Mk.IB served with the Escuadrón de Combate of the Fuerza Aérea de la Guardia Nacional at Managua/Las Mercedes.

(Top) A FAGN Achilles near the end of its service in 1949. The Nicaraguan Achilles were replaced by F-51D Mustangs and went into storage before being stripped for engine and armament spares. The airframes were sacrificed as fire fighting trainers at Las Mercedes.

The Achilles F.Mk.II served on in small numbers with the RCAF after WWII until being replaced by Mustang TF Mk.IV fighters. The last examples flew on West Coast meteorological duties. Disarmed Achilles served with this 'Met' flight on the West Coast until also being replaced by 'Met Mustangs' in 1954.

(Bottom) This Achilles was formerly with the 442 "City of Vancouver" Auxiliary Fighter Squadron (whose markings have now been painted over) but is shown here with the Climatological Flight at RCAF Pat Bay in 1951.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Litvyak May 24, 2013, 09:09:13 AM
Gorgeous!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: upnorth May 24, 2013, 01:12:54 PM
Fantastic!
: Seversky Reborn
: apophenia May 27, 2013, 08:43:58 AM
Seversky Reborn - Seversky Aviation Corporation and the EF200 Series Fighters

While Alexander Seversky was on a European sales tour in the winter of 1938–39, the Board of Seversky Aircraft  Corporation removed Seversky as President. The company would later be reorganized as the Republic Aviation Corporation. Out of options, Seversky struck out on his own.

Unbeknownst to his former Board, while in Europe, Seversky had managed to secure a lucrative contract from the French Armée de l'Air for a development of the Seversky AP-9 fighter. On the basis of that order, a new Seversky Aviation Corporation was formed in March 1939. SAC's base of operations was Miller Field, a former Army Airfield at New Dorp Beach, New York (Seversky shared the field with the NY National Guard's 102nd Observation Squadron  until October 1940 when the 'activated' 102nd relocated to Alabama).

Seversky's chief designer, Alexander Kartveli, had elected to stay with Republic. But Seversky was able to lure  two visiting Italian engineers to his new firm who would be responsible for the design of what would become the EF200 (Export Fighter, 200 series). Engineers Bob Longhi and Tony Alessio retained the overall layout of the AP-9 but adopted a rearward-retracting Curtiss-style undercarriage. This left more space in the centre section for fuel tanks and, in future, a central bomb rack.

As stipulated by the French contract, the new fighter was to be powered by a Gnome-Rhône 14-cylinder air-cooled radial engine. To conserve stocks of French-made engines, production aircraft were to be fitted with Rumanian-made IAR 14K engines. To that end, the French would import IAR 14Ks through Marseilles and 'empty' EP200 airframes  through St. Nazaire. At a Base de stockage, the airframe and engine would be united while French equipment and armament was also installed.

One Gnome-Rhône 14N was provided for the prototype EF200 which flew for the first time on 15 August 1939. The first hop was a publicity stunt with Seversky's wife, Evelyn Olliphant, at the controls. The aircraft was more thoroughly wrung out by Seversky test pilots later in the day. A few detail changes to the prototype were required by inspectors of the French Air Mission to the United States but production EF200s were already rolling down Seversky's new production lines at Miller Field.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia May 27, 2013, 08:47:29 AM
Seversky Reborn - EF200 Fighter Prototype and French Service

The speed with which the prototype Seversky EF200 was completed was somewhat misleading. Much of the airframe was derived from two privately-owned Seversky 'fighters'.  The prototype's fuselage and empennage was rebuilt from Major Seversky's own EP1 (c/n 147, NX-2587). The one-piece wings were based on those of the AP-7 racer (on loan to
the new firm from  Jacqueline Cochran) but constructed, in part, from components reclaimed from NX-2587.

(Top) The prototype Seversky EF200 as it appeared when first flown in August 1939. Although a variable-pitch Ratier propeller had been planned, this did not arrive on time. The prototype remained with Seversky as a trials 'mule' until being converted into the XP-41B for the US Army Air Corps.

Production Seversky fighters began leaving the line in early Spring of 1940. The first EF200-C1, as the Armée de l'Air designated it, was completed at a Loire-Atlantique Base de stockage in April 1940. All completed EF200-C1s were delivered to Groupe de Chasse II where they equipped 4 escadrille. This unit took the Seversky into action (alongside GC II's Curtiss Hawk 75As and Bloch MB.152-C1s) shortly after the German invasion began.

The aircraft equipping GC II/4 were all Series 1 EF200s armed with six 7.5 mm MAC 1934 machine guns. GC II/4 began re-equiping from Hawk 75s at Xaffevillers on 1 May 1940 before moving to Orconte-hauteville two weeks later. Newly arrived Severskys were able to keep pace with EF200 attrition but, by the end of May, GC II/4 was in constant
retreat. Such was the chaos of this relocation that, within a month, none of CG II/4's Severskys were airworthy.

(Bottom) A production Seversky EF200-C1 in the standard Armée de l'Air fighter scheme. EF200 c/n 29 is shown when newly-delivered to 4 escadrille of Groupe de Chasse II at Orconte-hauteville in late May 1940. An individual aircraft number is painted in yellow on the rear fuselage. Below the cockpit is 'la mort fauchant' ('scything
death' being the GC II unit insignia).

GC II/4 was destined to be the only French Seversky unit. It had been planned that, by July 1940, the rest of the Groupe was to have been equipped with cannon-armed Series 2 EF200s. But those aircraft were never delivered. The French story of the Seversky EF200 came to an ignominious end in the end of June 1940. Having retreated to
Dun-sur-Auron in central France, GC II/4's personnel were burning their remaining EF200s on the ground.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Litvyak May 27, 2013, 08:49:27 AM
Love it. And the Jackie Cochrane mention = <3 :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia May 27, 2013, 09:09:45 AM
Cheers Litvyak. Had kind of an aviatrix thing going there  ;)  I thought I'd made up the bit about Evelyn Olliphant de Seversky test flying for the company, then I saw this in her obit: " a New Orleans socialite who in 1930 took up flying to surprise her husband, by the late '30's was expert enough to help test-fly his planes until a heart condition grounded her". Who knew?
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe May 27, 2013, 11:41:03 AM
Interesting, thanks!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Litvyak May 27, 2013, 12:02:51 PM
The nifty bits of history you can learn around here... ! :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: lauhof52 May 27, 2013, 02:12:44 PM
That Seversky is one of a kind!! :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: elmayerle May 28, 2013, 03:13:57 AM
So, these two stayed with Severski rather than return to Italy to work for Caproni Reggiane?  That could change a lot.  Willl the EF200 evolve much along the lines of the Re.2000 ---> Re,2006 evolution, but with Allied instead of Axis engines?
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia May 28, 2013, 10:20:59 AM
Thanks folks ... more to come!

So, these two stayed with Severski rather than return to Italy to work for Caproni Reggiane?  That could change a lot.  Willl the EF200 evolve much along the lines of the Re.2000 ---> Re,2006 evolution, but with Allied instead of Axis engines?

I knew that someone would recognize Bob and Tony   ;D  And, of course, the base aircraft. As for the EF200 evolution, let's say 'inspired by Reggiane' but not tied to it.  ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia May 28, 2013, 10:25:41 AM
Seversky Reborn - Ex-French EF200 Fighters in British Service

With the fall of France, the British Purchasing Commission began taking over outstanding contracts for combat aircraft. The Seversky EF200 was no exception. But the engineless Armée de l'Air EF200-C1 airframes building up at Miller Field provided an extra modicum of challenge for the Royal Air Force.

The only available British aero-engine of similar diameter to the twin-row Gnome-Rhône 14K was the single-row Bristol Mercury. The British engine was slightly less powerful but the Mercury was also lighter. With extended engine bearers, the EF200 airframe readily accepted a 840 hp Bristol Mercury VIII in a cowling from a Bristol  Blenheim bomber. This would later be changed to a Mercury VIIIA engine with cowl gun synchronisation gear.

(Top) A EF200-C1 converted as the first prototype Seversky Serval, SY201. Note that RAF markings have been painted over the standard French camouflage scheme. This aircraft was evaluated by the A&AEE at RAF Boscombe Down before  being returned to Bristol to act as a conversion pattern aircraft.

True to its origins, the Seversky Serval Mk.I was virtually identical to the French Series I EF200-C1 other than its engine type and substitution of British equipment. Intended as Army Cooperation aircraft, the first Servals were issued to RCAF No.112 Squadron (which converted from Lysander Mk.Is). But the RAF's real interest was in the cannon-armed Series II EF200.

Further Series I EF200 airframes were delivered but earlier, in late July 1940, Seversky had delivered the first  Series II airframes to Bristol for conversion to Serval Mk.II standards. These were armed with twin 0.303" Browning machine guns synchronized to fire through the propeller arc plus a 20mm Hispano Mk.I cannon in each wing with a 60-round drum magazine. With this 'shell gun' armament, Army Cooperation entered the era of 'low attack'.

(Bottom) A Seversky Serval Mk.II of II (Army Cooperation) Squadron at RAF Hawkinge in early September 1940. Note that this 'Shiney Two' Serval has had its troublesome tailwheel cover doors removed to simplify maintenance.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe May 28, 2013, 12:10:46 PM
Great conversion!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: elmayerle May 28, 2013, 01:23:58 PM
Thanks folks ... more to come!

So, these two stayed with Severski rather than return to Italy to work for Caproni Reggiane?  That could change a lot.  Willl the EF200 evolve much along the lines of the Re.2000 ---> Re,2006 evolution, but with Allied instead of Axis engines?

I knew that someone would recognize Bob and Tony   ;D  And, of course, the base aircraft. As for the EF200 evolution, let's say 'inspired by Reggiane' but not tied to it.  ;)
Well, I've got several books on that line of aircraft, starting back with one of my first purchases back in 1972.  As I said, "along the lines", but not tied to it.   Very clean line of development that kept it small rather than growing as the Republic line of development did; I can see this following a similar pattern but not identical nor mirroring.  Still, for grins, a Vulture-powered equivalent of the Re.2004 would be interesting.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Empty Handed May 28, 2013, 05:17:57 PM
Love the Severskys! Are you sure you couldn't get a Taurus on one? She's not a slight bird!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia May 29, 2013, 07:43:55 AM
Thanks folks!

Evan: Hmmm, hadn't thought of a Vulture ... though Bob would approve of doing a Re.2004! Any idea what the size difference would be between the IF Zeta and a Vulture?

EH: Yep, the Taurus would easily fit. But I was going for something in the same diameter range as the G-R 14K. So no R-1830s either  ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia May 29, 2013, 07:48:17 AM
Seversky Reborn - Seversky's Search for Alternative EF200 Powerplants

Further British orders for the Serval army cooperation fighters would be dependant upon Seversky finding suitable American engines for new-built airframes. The most promising candidate was the Pratt & Whitney X-100 twin-row, 14-cylinder radial. This enlarged Twin Wasp was almost exactly the same diameter as the G-R 14K but would be
capable of producing 1,300 hp on lower-grade 87 octane fuel.

The P&W X-100 was somewhat heavier than earlier EF200 engines but Seversky was confident that a reorganization of internal equipment could compensate. Although not flight-ready, an X-100 trial installation was begun in the late Autumn of 1940. The installation went smoothly but made clear that, for pilot visibility, an updraught carburettor would be required. Alas, the X-100 was given a low priority. Pratt announced that production engines would not be available until 1942 at the earliest and Seversky reluctantly shelved the X-100 project.

(Bottom) The EF200 prototype fitted with a P&W X-100 engine. Although considered a successful installation, there was no hope of timely production engines. The scrap view shows the X-100 cowling which was designed but never installed.

With its X-100 trials engine removed, the EF200 prototype was converted to yet another engine type. This was the Wright R-1820-G205A Cyclone. This single-row, 1,200 hp radial was readily available and solved the balance issue of heavier engines. In a surprise move, the US Army Air Corps requested the opportunity to test the Cyclone EF200
at Wright Field as their XP-41B.

(Top) XP-41B in its US Army Air Corps garb. Markings were minimal at this stage -- the USAAC designation is on the fin, tail stripes on the rudder, and US stars on upper port and lower starboard wings. The Wright Field 'arrow' is applied to the fuselage side.

Seversky was well aware that the USAAC's interest was really in the EF200's 20mm cannon installation. However,  even a slight possibility of a US order was worth the delay in the RAF Cyclone-Serval programme. The XP-41B was returned to Miller Field in June 1941 but, by that time, RAF interest in a Cyclone-Serval was waning.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: elmayerle May 29, 2013, 09:32:09 AM
Beautiful aircraft and story, but one typo.  "...undraught carburettor ..." should be "...updraught carburettor ...".  Still, I like the way things are evolving here.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe May 29, 2013, 11:59:46 AM
Yes, this seems to be serious engineering... ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: lauhof52 May 29, 2013, 05:48:21 PM
Outstanding work! :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia May 30, 2013, 03:16:50 AM
Beautiful aircraft and story, but one typo.  "...undraught carburettor ..." should be "...updraught carburettor ...".  Still, I like the way things are evolving here.

Ooops  :-[  So that's why they couldn't get the X-100 to work!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia May 30, 2013, 03:20:07 AM
Seversky Reborn - End of the Line for the British Mercury-Serval

While the Mercury-engined Serval pioneered the 'low attack' role in 'domestic' Army Cooperation squadrons, it was soon eclipsed by the more-powereful Curtiss Tomahawk. The Servals were then passed on to AC squadrons in Africa where they would serve alongside similarly-engined Blenheim bombers.

Ex-II (AC) Squadron Serval Mk.IIs went to the Western Desert to equip 208 (AC) Squadron. RCAF No.112 Squadron became a fighter unit (as No.412) and its Serval Mk.Is went to the Sudan where they replaced the Hardys in B and C Flights of No.237 (Rhodesia) Squadron.

(Top) A 208 (AC) Squadron Serval Mk.II in Greece, April 1941. Note the 250-lb GP on the belly rack and tailwheel locked in the 'down' position. This Serval was lost when, heavily damaged by AA fire, it crash-landed at Kalamata airfield.

The Mercury-Serval series got an unexpected reprieve when Seversky received an order from the Fleet Air Arm. The Seversky Sea Lion carrier fighter was based on the Serval prototype navalized by Gloster. Intended as a fill-in until sufficient Grumman Marlets were available, the Sea Lion gain a place in posterity nonetheless. The FAA Sea  Gladiators of the Hal Far Fighter Flight on Malta could cope with bombers but not the Italian monoplane fighters. Using long range tanks, a dozen Sea Lions were flown in to HMS Falcon in February 1941. These Sea Lions flew top cover for the Sea Gladiators until the RAF took over full responsibility for the aerial defence of Malta.

(Bottom) A 'de-navalized' Seversky Sea Lion Mk.IA of the of the Hal Far Fighter Flight, Malta, March 1941. Note the longer tail wheel leg of the Sea Lion.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: raafif May 30, 2013, 05:55:30 AM
"undraught carburettor" = fuel injection ??

now we need a late-war tricycle-undercarriage version ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: elmayerle May 30, 2013, 10:55:24 AM
Evan: Hmmm, hadn't thought of a Vulture ... though Bob would approve of doing a Re.2004! Any idea what the size difference would be between the IF Zeta and a Vulture?
I can't find exact dimensions for comparison, but looking at pictures, they appear of comparable dimensions.  With a bit more development, the Vulture could be a most useful engine.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia May 31, 2013, 06:59:03 AM
"undraught carburettor" = fuel injection ??

 ;D

I did a little playing around with Evan's idea of a Vulture Seversky. I used the original Hawker Tornado cowling as my model. The scaling is crude but Rolls-Royce's X-24 would just fit into the Re.2000 airframe. The big concern would be propeller clearance on landing!  :o

I've attached a Re.2004 sideview for comparison. I couldn't find any specs for the IF Zeta but the 'base' Delta RC.35 is bigger (other than width) than the Vulture's 'base' Peregrine. But, somehow, Isotta Fraschini seems to have created a smaller package with the Zeta. So, no Vulture-powered Re.2004s  :icon_crap:

FWIW, here's the Rolls-Royce Vulture specs:

Displacement - 42.47 L
Length overall - 2,226 mm
Width overall - 909 mm
Height overall - 1,071 mm
Weight - 1,111 kg
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe May 31, 2013, 11:14:40 AM
Thanks for this great addition! :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: elmayerle May 31, 2013, 12:12:45 PM
Beautiful!!  I do wish someone made a conversion for a Re.2004.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia June 01, 2013, 03:52:35 AM
Hey, if ItalianKits can do the unbuilt MC.205M, why not the Re.2004? (BTW, go on your captured Veltro fitted with a Merlin concept!)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia June 01, 2013, 03:55:45 AM
Seversky Reborn - Late-Model Radial-Engined SF200s With Sea Legs

The Mercury-Serval series was not the end of the radial-engined Seversky SF200 series. British Fleet Air Arm  interest in the stillborn Cyclone-Serval was transferred to the more promising X-100-powered version as that project matured. Pratt & Whitney was finally able to begin delivering production R-2000 engines in late 1942. By that time, Seversky had already improved its original engine installation.

To take full advantage of the extra powered delivered by the R-2000, Seversky had lengthened the fuselage. This pushed the cockpit rearward leaving space for an additional fuselage fuel tank behind the firewall. Less obvious changed included the strengthened the main gear (along with the undercarriage door revisions introduced on the
inline-engined SF250 series). Compared with its X-100 installation, Seversky revised the exhaust outlets,  replacing a single pipe on each side with multiple exhaust thrust augmenter tubes. An updraught Bendix-Stromberg PD12 carburettor was used and twin oil cooler intakes were let in to the wing leading edges.

The driving force behind the R-2000-powered SF225 was the British Fleet Air Arm. But, ironically, the FAA released the first SF225s for use by the Royal Netherlands East Indies Army. But the NEI fell to the Japanese for a single  SF225 had been completed for the ML-KNIL. Eight airframes near completion were taken over by the US Navy. The remainder were converted on the line into FAA Sea Horse F.Mk.Is.

(Top) A Seversky YF2N-1 of the US Navy's Fleet Air Combat Training Unit (Fighter) using dissimilar air combat training to familiarized Naval Aviators with Japanese fighter tactics. Note 'shipping out' style buzz codes.

Although the Seversky Sea Lion had not been an impressive performer, the FAA had appreciated its cannon armament. At the time, Sea Hurricanes were considered interim equipment and the FAA was very interested in more powerful,  radial-engined fighters. The SF225 Sea Horse was seen as a potential Marlet replacement. Unfortunately, R-2000  deliveries were never a wartime priority for Pratt & Whitney. High numbers of Sea Horses were never attained. Despite this, the Sea Horse was one of the most highly regarded FAA fighters until the advent of the Hawker Sea Fury.

(Bottom) A Seversky Sea Horse F.Mk.IA of No.804 Squadron on convoy duty aboard HMS Emperor, Oct-Nov 1943. Note 'carrier' tailwheel, catapult spools, and belly arrestor hook. The F.Mk.IA introduced a bulged canopy and eliminated wing-mounted machine guns.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Empty Handed June 03, 2013, 08:03:42 AM
The Sea Horse is a real looker but as for that Vulture-Seversky...... contra-props, for the love of purty flying things, contra-props!!!! I need to see that beauty in service colours!!!  :-*  ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Cliffy B June 04, 2013, 01:51:50 AM
I have to echo what Empty Handed said about the Sea Horse  8)

To me, with that long canopy its crying out to have a second seat facing rearwards and a twin .30 in it.  Oh yeah, and a center line float and wing floats  ;)  Its a shoe in for an early scout float on a cruiser/battleship.  Would be a nice counterpart to my SFC-1 Osprey in the '46 GB  :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia June 05, 2013, 09:54:57 AM
Thanks folks. Some inline Severskys are pending (but I'm a little hung up at the mo').

EH: I'd forgotten about the DH contra-props on that Tornado prototype. I was thinking that the Vulture-Seversky was a dead  end but ... tempted.

Cliffy: I like this two-seat floatplane idea. I may have to start whiffing my whifs  ;D
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia June 13, 2013, 05:37:57 AM
Seversky Reborn - Son of Serval - the Inline-Engined Scimitars

The US War Department had been hostile towards Seversky since the export of SEV-2PA-B3 fighters to Japan. In consequence, the US Government was often unwilling to release military engines for installation into Seversky fighters -- even for export to Britain. That situation changed when Packard began building Rolls-Royce Merlins under contract for the RAF.

While SAC Engineer Tony Alessio developed the Sea Horse, Bob Longhi was working on a refined, inline-engined development of the Serval. Being denied access to the US Allison V-12 may have been a stroke of good forture. When the Merlin-engined EF250 appeared, its performance was dramatically better than the rival Curtiss Kittyhawk. The British assessed the EF250 and quickly ordered it for the RAF as the Scimitar.

(Top) The prototype EF250 Scimitar flew in November 1941. It was powered by one of the first Packard-built Merlin engines. Note the large belly radiator housing plus Serval-style cockpit glazing and undercarriage fairings.

The production Scimitar F.Mk.I was powered by the Packard Merlin 28. These fighters were armed with six .50" Browning machine guns (although two guns were often removed in the field to lighten weight).

The Scimitar F.Mk.II was powered by a Packard Merlin 28 or 31. The F.Mk.II returned to the Serval's 20mm Hispano cannon armament. These fighters were often flown as top cover for bomb-carrying Scimitar F.Mk.IAs.

(Bottom) A brand-new Scimitar F.Mk.II of No.94 Squadron RAF at Gasr el Arid, Libya. This RAF Volunteer Reserve squadron converted from Hurricanes onto Scimitar Is and IIs in March 1942.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe June 13, 2013, 11:49:30 AM
Beautiful Severkies, thanks! :-*
(almost as gorgeous as Reggiane Re-2005)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia June 16, 2013, 10:16:25 AM
Thanks Tophe! Here's a few more ...

Seversky Reborn - Merlin-Engined Scimitars in RAF Service

The Scimitar F.Mk.III standardized on the Packard-built Merlin 31 and cannon  armament. Also standard were mounting points for a belly rack for bombs up to 500 lbs or a 52 gallon drop tank.

(Top) A Scimitar F.Mk.IIIA of No.26 (South African) Squadron at RAF Gatwick in May 1942. No.26 was the only squadron to operate the Scimitar in the temperate
camouflage scheme. Surviving aircraft went to the FFAF in North Africa when No.26 re-equipped with Mustangs later in 1942.

The Scimitar F.Mk.IV was externally identical to the Mk.III but had additional armour plate to protect the pilot and engine (the Mk.IVA having a 1,400 hp Merlin 33). The Mk.IV was a ground attack specialist which first saw action in Tunisia and remained in RAF service in Italy until early 1945.

(Bottom) A Scimitar F.Mk.IV of No.225 Squadron in Sicily, late July 1943. No.225 Sqn had arrived in Tunisia in late 1942.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia June 24, 2013, 11:25:57 AM
I've skipped to the end of my AltHist Seversky story.

(Top) A Reverse Lend-Leased late-model Scimitar in US markings. The USAAF wasn't interested in procuring the Merlin 68-powered Scimitar F.Mk.XI. Rather the sole
XP-41Q was used by the USAAF for comparative trials against Curtiss' XP-40Q prototype.

(Bottom) The last Scimitar was a partially-completed F.Mk.XIIIA converted into an unlimited racer for publicity purposes. The Packard Merlin 69 was replaced by a special, race-prepared Rolls-Royce Griffon 72-R.

The for EF250R, radiators were replaced with an evaporative cooling system. Steam pipes ran though the wings and a condensing tank sat in the original cockpit (the new pilot position being maved aft to the radio compartment).

The new cooling system did not function well in ground tests but it was hoped  that forward airspeed would cure the problems. Alas, this was not the case. On its maiden flight, the engine of the EF250R overheated and seized. The test pilot was forced to ditch and the EF250R sank just off the coast of Staten Island.

Much of Seversky's late-war production had been dedicated to building P-47 wing  and empennage sets for Republic's Farmingdale, NY line. With wartime orders cancelled in August 1945, the Seversky plant was forced to close. In December 1945, a take-over offer was accepted and the Miller Field facility became part of Republic Aviation.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe June 24, 2013, 11:45:33 AM
Wow, wonderful! :-*
I was dreaming of a YP-37-like derivative with a rear canopy and you designed it into this racer, thanks!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Empty Handed June 24, 2013, 06:16:12 PM
The XP-41Q is really really nice!!!  :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: perttime June 24, 2013, 06:30:42 PM
I like racers and the EF250R definitely looks the part - and it is different enough from any real-world racers  :D

... it should really be recovered from the waters, if it hasn't yet.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia June 25, 2013, 08:42:51 AM
Thanks folks!

perttime: As for the EF250R, Raritan Bay where she went down is shallow so recovery would not be difficult. On the other hand, maybe the EF250R should be maintained as a gravesite for a really bad idea -- has anybody ever made evaporative cooling work properly?   ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: perttime June 25, 2013, 02:06:24 PM
I guess all sorts of cooling systems have been made to work OK on racers. The boil-off system on the Galloping Ghost was apparently working adequately. Or... with the bigger engine, they might also have balanced things by burying a pretty conventional radiator in the tail.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia July 22, 2013, 11:14:25 AM
raafif did up a float-fighter version of the Airabonita for my 'Canadian Cobras' story line.
http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=3320.msg49233#msg49233 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=3320.msg49233#msg49233)

That inspired a float version of the production CanCar Cobra:
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe July 22, 2013, 11:32:58 AM
Lovely! and well balanced! :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia September 30, 2013, 09:22:19 AM
Inspired by Greg's idea for Allied Luftwaffe aircraft after a successful July Plot...
http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=1687.msg53927#msg53927 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=1687.msg53927#msg53927)

(Top) He 162A-0 Gelbe 11 of I/JG.71 in Jan 1945. Flying in defense of Berlin, this Spatz wears the so-called (and short-lived)  Kapitulation Rondelle and the neue Republik flag covered its tail Hakenkreuze.

(Bottom) He 162A-1 JE-105 of the newly-formed II/JG.73 'Steinhoff'. This aircraft was lost on April 1945 while flying top cover for Kurland-Kessel Schlachtgruppen bases. By this stage, Luftwaffe markings consisted of the new-style Eiserne Kreuz in six positions, neue Republik flags on the tail, and new squadron codes/aircraft numbers.

Both images are retouched from Simon Schatz's excellent profiles.
http://luftwaffe-aviation-art.blogspot.ca/ (http://luftwaffe-aviation-art.blogspot.ca/)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe September 30, 2013, 09:38:13 AM
Nice colours and markings. It is pleasant to see He-162s on the "good" side... :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin September 30, 2013, 06:36:59 PM
Outstanding! ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Nexus1171 October 11, 2013, 08:58:49 AM
Aphophenia

I love the following designs
I also like the following
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia October 15, 2013, 03:44:56 AM
Thanks for the feedback. GIB is nav/radio op (like the Fulmar or Firefly).

Now for some gull-winged Macch silliness:

Cranked Castoldis - Macchi Gabbiano & Corsaro

Macchi's C.220 Gabbiano was a close-support aircraft with reverse-gulled wings intended to provide clearance for under-fuselage ordance while also addressing the Saetta wing's high-speed stall problems. A comparatively tiny wing area gave the Gabbiano terrible characteristics (particularly on landing).

The C.210 Corsaro (or 'Super Saetta') was Mario Castoldi's design for a two-seat C.200 stablemate. The heavier Corsaro used a larger version of the Gabbiano wing and a larger, 1450 hp Fiat A.41 twin-row radial.

The failure of Fiat's ambitious 50 litre, 14-cylinder radial doomed the C.210 project. Plans to adapt the airframe to the 28-cylinder Alfa Romeo 1101 liquid-cooled radial would also be abandoned.

Image notes: Fuselages mostly based on Teodor Liviu Morosanu's early C.200 profile; wings and u/c based on Janusz Swiatlon's F4U-1.

The C.220 was envisioned as a scale-o-rame of 1/48 Macchi C.200 and 1/72 Corsair (spats are shortened 1/48 Fokker D.XXI units). The C.210 uses same scale Corsair and C.200 parts (with the latter's fuselage greatly extended obviously).
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe October 15, 2013, 06:27:56 AM
Nice Macchis!

raafif did up a float-fighter version of the Airabonita for my 'Canadian Cobras' story line.
[url]http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=3320.msg49233#msg49233[/url] ([url]http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=3320.msg49233#msg49233[/url])
That inspired a float version of the production CanCar Cobra:
Have you seen the blue one built by Ericr? at http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=3546.30 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=3546.30)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Nexus1171 October 15, 2013, 10:15:52 AM
Apophenia

Thanks for the feedback.
You're welcome

GIB is nav/radio op (like the Fulmar or Firefly).
Okay, I see your point.  I was wondering if you have considered employing it as a hybrid observation/ground-attack aircraft with the back-seater acting as an observer?
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: ericr October 15, 2013, 02:17:58 PM

That inspired a float version of the production CanCar Cobra:

beautiful floatplanization !  :D
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia October 17, 2013, 05:59:00 AM
Nexus: The original concept wasn't mine. Upnorth went on to develop his idea in 'Stealing the Stuka': http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=1501.0 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=1501.0)

CCF Sea Goblin

In September 1940, the CCF-built Grumman GE-23 Goblin constituted the sole RCAF fighter defence of Nova Scotia. Flying from Dartmouth, the two-seat Goblin proved woefully unsuited to its role. By late 1941 the RCAF was considering transferring the Goblins to Army Co-operation duties when the Royal Canadian Navy expressed interest in the biplane.

Surviving RCAF Goblins were transferred from No. 118 RCAF Sqn's A Flight to the RCN's Shearwater Naval Air Station near Halifax, NS. Obviously obsolete as a fighter, the RCN intended to use the Goblin as a recce-strike aircraft from anticipated 'escort carriers'.

Fitted with US Navy-proved arrestor gear, the Sea Goblin first formed a training flight at Shearwater. Originally flown in slightly modified RCAF colours, the Sea Goblin fleet was later resprayed in a scheme similar to Royal Navy shipboard aircraft.

The Sea Goblins were fitted with wing racks for two 100-lb GP bombs. CCF experimented with US Mk 54 aerial depth charges. It was found that the Sea Goblin could carry two of the 325-lb weapons only if flown as a single-seater. One Sea Goblin Mk.IA (418) was permanently modified as a single-seater but the remainder of the fleet carried only one depth charge.

The Sea Goblins served alongside RCN Swordfish on RN escort carriers from late 1942 until May 1943 when CCF had built sufficient Sea Hurricanes to replace the remaining Grumman biplanes.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: elmayerle October 17, 2013, 07:06:12 AM
Now that's purty.  I wonder if they looked at up-engining it?
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe October 17, 2013, 08:49:46 AM
I like your single-seat conversion. :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin October 17, 2013, 03:15:29 PM
 :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia October 18, 2013, 11:49:23 AM
Thanks lads!

Evan: The GE-23 was up-engined compared with the FFs (the 700 hp R-1820-78 Cyclone being replaced by a 800 hp R-1820-F52). If you meant re-engining the Goblin itself, the 1200 hp GR-1820-G205A with three-bladed prop would be an obvious choice (that Cyclone variant powering the Toronto-based Norwegian Hawk 75A-8s).
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: elmayerle October 18, 2013, 12:27:01 PM
I like that approach, subtle but quite plausible.  It would be an obvious move.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia October 24, 2013, 09:40:54 AM
Couldn't resist ...

In late 1942, Canadian Car and Foundry re-engined an RCN Sea Goblin with a more powerful Wright GR-1820-G205A Cyclone radial. A reduced-diameter, three-bladed propellor was fitted to ensure deck clearance on landing. The RCN regarded the re-engined Sea Goblin, serial 424, as a success but ordered no further modified examples.

Based on the success of the GR-1820-G205A installation, CanCar proposed a new variant. Taking advantage of its  ex-Grumman tooling, the GE-23 fuselage would be retained. But the day of the biplane was over and ex-Brewster wing tooling was scrapped. Instead, CCF proposed that the 'Goblin monoplane' be fitted with the wing of the Westland Lysander being build by National Steel Car in Malton, ON. This new variant was tentatively dubbed the Cormorant but the RCN declined the type. Instead, the CCF plant turned to production of SBW-3 Helldivers for the  US Navy.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe October 24, 2013, 10:26:35 AM
I prefer this "new" monoplane version, thanks!
Uh, the (new?) tail looks like a F4U one, is it?

EDIT: while looking back on previous pages to see the "old tail(s)", I discovered again your delicious "late EF-250"  :-* and that inspired new Mustang derivatives (http://www.kristofmeunier.fr/r_P-51TR8_aah.JPG (http://www.kristofmeunier.fr/r_P-51TR8_aah.JPG) ), thanks!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin October 25, 2013, 02:08:19 AM
 :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Queeg October 25, 2013, 06:03:50 AM
Kinda playing late catch-up on this thread ....it's packed full of goodness. Especially like the 109/P51 hybrid, very tempting.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia November 02, 2013, 08:38:31 AM
Thanks folks. Tophe: Cormorant  tail was not based on the F4U but it does look rather similar.

Focke Wulf Schlachtflugzeuge

Focke Wulf designed its Fw 189C variant to meet the 1937 Schlachtflugzeuge contest. But, by late 1938, Kurt Tank had concluded that the As 410-powered twin-boomer would be underpowered. It was decided to bolster Focke Wulf's entry with an armoured ground attack derivative of the Fw 187 fighter would also be submitted.

Since the Luftwaffe's future Schlachtflugzeuge was to have air-cooled engines, Tank's team reviewed foreign powerplants. The first choice was the 540 hp Isotta-Fraschini Gamma R.C.35-I but this changed when Germany occupied Bohemia-Moravia, bringing Czech engine-maker Walter under German control.

In March 1939, the Fw 187 V2 prototype was rebuilt with its Jumo 210Gs replaced by twin Walter Sagitta I-MR air-cooled V12s. The proposed production Fw 187S-0 was to have its cockpit replaced by a fully-armoured enclosure. Armament was to be twin 7.92mm MG17s and two 2.0cm MG-FFs. The redesigned Fw 187S V1 conversion flew well but the RLM decided to curtain wartime Walter production to German-designed engines only.

By the beginning of 1940, Focke Wulf had completed two prototype Fw 187S-0s but these airframes remained engineless. However, after the fall of France, thought was given to re-using captured French engines. After examining Renault V12s, the choice fell on the larger Gnome-Rhône 14M radial. Engines of this type (complete with their Potez 63.11 cowlings) were installed in July 1940 and pre-production Fw 187S-1s began to be delivered to an operational trials unit, 4./SchG 101, based at Orly/Paris in late August 1941.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe November 02, 2013, 09:38:05 AM
The Fw-187 is not well known, I had to check the Web (http://lmk.vsetin.org/?clanek=81 (http://lmk.vsetin.org/?clanek=81) with Google) to appreciate your work.
And... congratulations, engineer, for your 'improvements'...
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Logan Hartke November 02, 2013, 09:52:43 AM
Ah, one of my favorite "What Ifs"!  The Fw 187 was always so pretty.  I'd love to see a standard single seater with DBs and in the gray 109/110/190 fighter scheme.

Well done!

Cheers,

Logan
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia November 03, 2013, 05:03:40 AM
Thanks Tophe. Yes, the Fw 187 is somewhat obscure but a rather dainty design, I think.

Logan: Agreed, a DB-powered single-seater would be cool. I know that the Luftwaffe felt no need for interceptors at that point but you'd think they'd have spotted the fast recce potential of such an aircraft.

Might the Fw 187 have also provided the Luftwaffe with a Westland Whirlwind analogue? The Jumo 210G is almost the same displacement as the Rolls-Royce Peregrine (19.7 litres vs. 21.2 L). Maybe tweak the Jumo 210 series, push the cockpit back, and add four MG-FFs to the nose?
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Logan Hartke November 03, 2013, 05:52:04 AM
I honestly think that it's more likely that they would have gone bigger with the Jumo 211 or 213 a la Ta 154.  You could even incorporate the Fw 190D/F's blow canopy, too, since the original's was much like the Fw 190A's canopy.  For visibility, I think you'd want to keep the cockpit as far forward as possible.  If your weapons won't fit in the normal places (which they should), then I think the better alternatives are a lengthened nose or a ventral pod.  Even side blisters like the B-25 would work, too.  I kind of like the shorter noses on these sorts of fighters.

Cheers,

Logan
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia November 12, 2013, 11:06:51 AM
Tiefdecker - Low-winged Monoplane Fighters for the Luftwaffe

Shortly after the Nazis came to power in the September 1930 German elections, the establishment of the Luftwaffe was announced. Heinkel had already begun work on biplane fighter designs but a new requirement was issued for a fully modern low-wing monoplane fighter as well.

The Heinkel He 49 series diverged into two designs for the new Luftwaffe. The He 49c prototype formed the basis for the Luftwaffe's first new fighter, the biplane He 51A. The original He 49a prototype was modified into what would become the He 52 V2 monoplane. The later combined the shorter fuselages of the He 49a with a wooden eliptical wing scaled-down from the He 70 transport.

The production He 52A was powered by the same 740 hp BMW VI V-12 as the He 51 biplane. The empennage was identical in both types and the fuselages were similar (whereas the He 51 got a 40 cm stretch to the He 49 rear fuselage, the stretch on the He 52 was in front of the cockpit). For simplicity, the RVM ruled against a retractable undercarriage for the He 52 so both types featured fixed, spatted landing gears.

'Zwei Eisen im Feuer'

The He 52A was ready for service use in early 1933 but, against Ernst Udet's recommendations, the RVM issued a request for a back-up design. The Bayerische Flugzeugwerke M.32 was a low-wing monoplane fighter designed by Willy Messerschmitt at the invitation of Rudolf Hess. Essentially an enlarged M.29 racer, like the He 52, the M.32 was fitted with a 740 hp BMW VI 7,3 Z V-12 engine.

Shown here is the prototype M.32 v1, first flown in August 1933. The M.32 introduced some radical features. Its cockpit was fitted with a side-hinged canopy (a feature rejected when proposed for the He 52. The M.32's monocoque fuselage was largely constructed from pre-pressed dural 'hoops'. Less successful was the all-moving horizontal tailplane. The small run of re-production M.32a fighters had fixed stabilizers on a revised tail with a horn-balanced rudder.

BFW received no order for the definitive M.32b interceptor. Instead, Messerschmitt was encouraged by the new Reichsluftfahrtministerium to pursue his more advanced M.38 design for the Luftwaffe. The M.38 was superficially similar to the M.32b but smaller overall due to its use of the new aka BMW XII (aka BMW 116) inverted V-12 rated at 620 hp.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Logan Hartke November 12, 2013, 11:17:02 AM
Very nice!  I like those a lot.

Cheers,

Logan
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: finsrin November 12, 2013, 11:20:36 AM
Those two sure look right for the time and their role.   :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe November 12, 2013, 02:18:30 PM
I like the Bf-109 forefather... :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin November 12, 2013, 05:08:20 PM
 :)

The M.32 looks somewhat like the Avia B.35
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia November 14, 2013, 05:24:21 AM
La Nouvelle Mode -- Low-winged Monoplane Fighters

The Germans weren't the only ones devising new low-winged monoplane fighter designs. The French led the way with the Dewoitine D.500 series. Less structurally advanced but quicker into service was the Hawker Fury Monoplane (adopted by the RAF as the Harrier Mk.I). The latter, like the He 52, was adapted from an existing biplane fighter. This, by far, became the commonest approach to producing new fighter designs.


Avions Fairey Furieux (Monoplan Firefly)

The Avions Fairey Furieux prototype was a short-lived local Belgian experiment with monoplane fighter. Originally known as the Monoplan Firefly, Avions Fairey incorporated much of the Firefly's fuselage into their Furieux design. First flown in August 1934, the prototype Furieux was written off by an Aéronautique Militaire pilot at Goetsenhoven in late September.

A second prototype was proposed but development was opposed by the parent Fairey firm. Instead, it was proposed to construct an Avions Fairey Féroce monoplane fighter based on the Fantôme biplane. Budgetary considerations ruled against this approach and imported Hawker Harriers were ordered for the Aéronautique Militaire.

Fokker D.XVIII

The Fokker D.XVIII was a relatively late entry into the low-wing monoplane fighter category. The Dutch LVA had bought Fokker D.XVI biplanes for their Jacht Vliegtuig Afdeling in late 1932. As follow-ons, Fokker trialled two inline engine fighters -- the biplane D.XVII and the monoplane D.XVIII. Deliveries of the latter began to JaVA in early 1936.

Shown is the first prototype D.XVIII temporarily fitted with a four-gun armament. One D.XVIII was experimentally fitted with an enclosed canopy and revised tailplane. That aircraft (Nr.212) retained its distinctive tail but the unpopular cockpit enclosure was quickly removed. Trial installations of French Lorraine Pétrel and Hispano Suiza 12X brs engines were also proposed but not completed (D.XVIII development being eclipsed by the more advanced Fokker D.XXI fighter).
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Logan Hartke November 14, 2013, 06:13:26 AM
These look great, Apophenia.  I've always like the Fox and--while this doesn't have quite the same charm--it's certainly nice, nonetheless.  Are you planning on doing developments of these two?

Cheers,

Logan
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe November 14, 2013, 10:37:57 AM
Thanks for having added an experimental canopy to the D-XVIII: without it, I do not recognize the planes personality (as far as I am concerned) ??? ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: perttime November 15, 2013, 12:07:09 AM
The open cockpit monoplane fighters are great   :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia November 15, 2013, 02:27:12 AM
Thanks folks.

Logan: The Firefly was a very jaunty little fighter. And, yeah, the monoplane loses much of its charm. No developments of these two though (but I may return to the Messerschmitt designs).
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia November 15, 2013, 02:28:32 AM
Eastern Promise -- Low-Wing Monoplane Fighters

Avia B-235

The Avia B-35 series was intended to be a minimal modification of the B-534/III biplane fighter. Tested as a B-534 conversion, the B-135 prototype had poor stability. To preserve over-the-nose visibility, the rear fuselage of the B-135 was stretched (resulting in minimal commonality with the B-534 Series III).

The B-235 introduced a sliding cockpit canopy and twin wing-mounted vz.30 machine guns. Shown is the B-235 Series I with the original 'turtle back' canopy fairing. Pilots complained bitterly about the resulting rear blind spot. As a result, the B-235/II restored a degree of rearward visibility with its scalloped fairing.

PZL P.10

Having gleaned no orders for its inline-engined P.8 gull-winged monoplane, PZL turned its attention to a low-winged derivative. The prototype P.10/I was based on the P.8/II airframe and shared its Lorraine-Dietrich 12Hfrs Pétrel V12 (although Hispano-Suiza and Kestrel-powered variants were planned).

Demonstrated at Warsaw in late 1933, the P.10/I was rejected by the Lotnictwo Wojskowe (which preferred radial engines for its fighters). A sale tour by the P.10/I through Eastern Europe and the Balkans likewise failed to glean any orders and PZL shifted its emphasis to the Mercury IV S2-powered P.12/I prototype developed in parallel with PZL's gull-winged P.11a fighter.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Logan Hartke November 15, 2013, 03:07:45 AM
The -235 makes up for it!  Quite lovely.

Cheers,

Logan
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Empty Handed November 15, 2013, 08:21:15 PM
The last 2 batches of monoplanes are all quite excellent and have their own unique charms!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin November 16, 2013, 02:55:54 AM
I am waiting to see if there were Gloster products of the same form...
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia November 16, 2013, 04:00:44 AM
Thanks folks. Greg: I was thinking of doing some British and French variants ...
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia November 16, 2013, 04:02:15 AM
Bayerische Flugzeugwerke Under State Control

The Luftwaffe's small order for M.32A fighters was not enough to sustain Bayerische Flugzeugwerke AG. Willy Messerschmitt had taken over the firm but the Bavarian government wanted a more permanent solution. In late 1933, an arrangement was struck whereby BFW came under majority State ownership. Part of this deal was that, where suitable engine types existed, BFW would use powerplants built by the Bayerische Motoren Werke AG (which was to establish a new factory in München-Milbertshofen).

Messerschmitt had continued development of the M.32 in hopes of attracting export orders. For test purposes, the Luftwaffe returned one M.32a to BFW. The M.32's removable tailcone facilitated a series of experimental tail surfaces aimed at improving low-speed control.

More radical changes resulted in this company demonstrator being redesignated M.32J Böe (Squall). Re-engining the M.32J with a 750 hp BMW VIIaU V-12 raising the fighter's thrust line (unlike the original direct-drive BMW VI, the BMW VII had a reduction gear). Shortly afterwards, the M.32J wing was modified to accept a radical new retractable undercarriage.

Consideration was then given to re-engining the M.32J with BMW's new monoblock V-12. Although less powerful than the BMW VII, the new inverted V-12 was also much lighter. Willy Messerschmitt became convinced that the new engine (designated BMW XII and, later, BMW 116) warranted a 'clean sheet' fighter design.

The resulting M.39 Orkan (Hurricane) design bore a close resemblance to the M.32J fitted with its outward retracting landing gear. But the new fighter was slightly smaller overall and correspondingly lighter. After initial flight trials at Augsburg, the M.39a prototype was delivered to the Luftwaffe test field at Rechlin.

Comparative trials showed the M.39 (now re-designated Bf 109 V1) to be superior to the rival Heinkel He 112. As a result of these trials, the BMW 116-powered fighter was ordered into large-scale production as the Luftwaffe's standard fighter - the BFW Bf 109A-1.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin November 16, 2013, 04:08:52 AM
I love that M.32J :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Empty Handed November 16, 2013, 07:29:11 AM
Fascinating alternate take on history!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe November 16, 2013, 10:06:45 AM
Fascinating alternate take on history!
Yes, great! (for the evil side, though)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia November 16, 2013, 12:00:23 PM
Radial-Engined Low-wing Monoplane Fighters

The Bristol Type 124 was an alternative submission for the F7/30 fighter competition. Although a monoplane, the Type 124's fuselage was clearly derived from the Type 105 Bulldog. Like Bristol's other radial-engined F7/30 submission, the Type 133, the Type 123 was powered by a 640 hp Mercury VIS2.

Ultimately, the F7/30 fighter contest was won by the Gloster Gladiator biplane. The sole Bristol Type 124 prototype was sold to the Swedish Air Force which employed it for experimental purposes (as the J7M) alongside its J7 Bulldog biplane fighters. The Type 124 was written off in a ground loop accident at Barkarby in 1937.

A more successful fighter was the 1935 Fokker D.XIX, a radial-engined development of the Fokker D.XVIII.  Ironically, Fokker had specifically developed the Mercury-engined D.XIX to replace Finland's Ilmavoimat Bulldog fighters. Although less advanced than Bristol's Type 123, in some ways, the D.XIX had wooden wings and empennage which better suited Finnish production capabilities.

VL began deliveries of locally-built D.XIXs in early 1938. Initial production models were armed with two 7.7mm Vickers machine guns synchronized to fire through the propeller. Later machines had four 7.7mm Browning guns, two of which were mounted in the wings to fire outside the propeller arc.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: lauhof52 November 16, 2013, 05:28:12 PM
Nice work on the 123!

regards
Lauhof
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: perttime November 16, 2013, 06:34:07 PM
The D.XIX parallels very nicely what really happened with Finnish D.XXI.
VL already knew how to build aircraft the Fokker way.
... And the real world D.XXI was about the best performing somewhat proven design that was available at the time. There were other higher performance fighters out there - but somehow they'd ended up not being available.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin November 17, 2013, 02:37:04 AM
Nice work on the 123!


Agreed!

Maybe someone should do the same with the Hawker Fury...oh, that's right they did - it was the Hurricane. ;D
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia November 18, 2013, 12:03:19 PM
Maybe someone should do the same with the Hawker Fury...oh, that's right they did - it was the Hurricane. ;D

Are you sure ...  >:D

Hawker's Fury Monoplane - the Harrier and Harpy

The Harrier was one of three Hawker submissions for F.5/34 (Interceptor Monoplane). Initially known as the P.V.4 Fury Monoplane, this fighter used as much of the Fury biplane structure as possible. The Fury fuselage had an another bay added forward of the cockpit to accommodate a monoplane centre section stub wing. To this stub wing were attached fabric-covered outer wing panels and the cantilever landing gear legs.

Ironically, the P.V.4 monoplane was ready sooner than the competing P.V.3 biplane (which required a largely revised structure). Rather than delay F.5/34 to allow other competing biplane fighters to be finished, the Air Ministry elected to issue an immediate contract for 50 P.V.4 monoplanes as the Harrier Mk.I.

The Harrier Mk.Is were delivered with 525 hp Kestrel IIIS engines but development plans aimed at Roll-Royce's evaporatively-cooled Goshawk. Trials with the 695 hp Goshawk III produced no noticeable improvement in the Harrier's performance. As a result, attention was turned to airframe improvements with the aim of installing evaporatively-cooled Roll-Royce engine, the larger PV-12.

Harpy - The 'opped-up 'arrier from 'awkers

Although the new PV-12 was only slightly larger than the Kestrel, it was almost 500 lbs heavier. As a result, considerable redesign of the Harrier fuselage was required to restore its c/g. At the time, the RAF was moving towards a new standard machine gun chambered for Vickers' rimless 12.7x81 ammunition. At an early stage, the Hawker design team decided to place this armament in the wings outside of the propeller arch. Thus the weighty BSA 'Aircraft Gun, Heavy' armament was was partly offset by the elimination of synchronization gear.

The most radical feature adopted for the 'PV-12 Harrier' was a completely retractable main undercarriage. This gear attached to the centre section stub wing and retracted outward into the wings (inboard of the gun bays). This design was quickly adopted by the RAF under a new name -- the Harpy. Since the PV-12 engine was not yet in full production, Harpy Mk.Is were powered by Kestrel VIs. The Harpy Mk.II was the first fitted with the PV-12 (by then named Merlin B). All Harpies were armed with four .5" BSA AGH guns.

Shown is the Harpy Mk.II demonstrator G-ABSE while at Brooklands airfield for tests in Nov 1935. In March 1936, G-ABSE moved to Martlesham Heath for RAF trials.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin November 18, 2013, 03:06:52 PM
 :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: lauhof52 November 18, 2013, 03:34:15 PM
 :) :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: PR19_Kit November 18, 2013, 07:09:58 PM
VERY clever indeed! And interesting change to the almost usual 'Spitfire heritage' stories.  :)

And those two just cry out to be built in plastic, maybe with the new Airfix Hurricane I as a root.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Empty Handed November 18, 2013, 11:17:31 PM
Nice! Especially the Bristol 123!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin November 19, 2013, 01:57:15 AM
I wonder...landplane/fighter development of Supermarine S.6B?
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: jcf November 19, 2013, 02:41:42 AM
I wonder...landplane/fighter development of Supermarine S.6B?

You'd need to ditch the 'R' engine, simply too big and too delicate.
Give it a Kestrel and you'd actually have room in the airframe
for something other than just the engine.
 ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: perttime November 19, 2013, 02:56:38 AM
I like the Harrier a lot!
... a couple of countries put radial engines on the Fury...

I might have to get back to my Macchi M39T, some time, and see what it needs to work as a fighter  ???
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia November 22, 2013, 05:44:27 AM
Thanks folks ... Schneider-related development to come  ;)

perttime: Go on that fighter Macchi M39T  :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia November 22, 2013, 05:48:09 AM
French and Franco-Spanish Low-wing Monoplane Fighters

Le Lorraine Hanriot avec un train escamotable

The Lorraine Hanriot LH 133 C1 was based upon the 1932 LH 131 Coupe Michelin racer. For the fighter design, Louis Montlaur lengthed the fuselage to balance the new SECM Lorraine 'Algol DE' (Algol double étoile) twin-row 18-cylinder radial (later renamed the Sirius 110). The wing was changed to an all-metal structure and flaps were installed.

Submitted for trials at the Centre d'Essais en Vol at Villacoublay in May 1934, the LH 133 C1 proved to have frightful handling characteristics. After two flights, trials were cancelled by the STAé and the prototype returned to the now independent Aeroplanes Hanriot et Cie. Tests with the redesignated H 133 C1 prototype continued but neither an enlarged tailplane nor a longer-span wing helped with handling.

Swiss, French, or Spanish? The Hispano-Delage 92

When Nieuport merged with Loire Aviation, former chief designer, Gustave Delage, retired. Delage went to work with Swiss watchmaker, Jaeger-LeCoultre, but also pitched his NiD 92 low-wing monoplane concept to Barcelona-based Hispano-Suiza. The latter had built Hispano-Nieuport 52s with very similar fuselages.

Spain's Aviación Militar accepted the new monoplane as the Hispano-Delage 92 C-1, intending to replace the less-than-satisfactory NiD 52. The prototype 'Tipo 92' was a heavily-modified HN 52 airframe powered by a 500 hp HS.12Hb driving a wooden propeller. The prototype featured fabric-covered wings and twin undercarriage leg-mounted Corominas radiators (which proved rather 'draggy').

The production HD 92 C-1 differed from the prototype most dramatically in having a more powerful HS 12X V12 engine with a horseshoe-shaped Chausson radiator in the extreme nose. The HS 12X drove a 2-bladed Helice Levasseur (in place of the prototypes wooden propeller). Dural-skinned wings replaced the fabric-covered units of the original. Armament consisted of two synchronized 7.7 mm Vickers machine guns.

HD 92 C-1 production began at the Fábrica Hispano-Suiza in Guadalajara in November 1934. The production model 'Tipo 92' served with two Aviación Militar Grupo as well as the Aeronáutica Naval's interceptor flight of the Escuadrilla de Combate y Adistramiento at San Javier.

A two-seater trainer version of the HD 92 was proposed as the E 34. This advanced trainer was to be powered by a licenced Hispano-Wright 9Qa radial engine. Unfortunately, neither the Aviación Militar nor Aeronaval had sufficient funds to proceed with the trainer project.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe November 22, 2013, 11:12:15 AM
Thanks for the revival of the (almost forgotten) Lorraine-Hanriot family... :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: ysi_maniac November 23, 2013, 01:06:13 AM
I DO love your early monoplanes!  :-* :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin November 23, 2013, 03:31:11 AM
Those last two are very nice! :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia November 29, 2013, 11:37:42 AM
Thanks folks!

Gloster Low-Wing Monoplane Fighters [Part 1]

The Gloster S.S.21 was a fighter derived from the 1929 Schneider Trophy racing seaplane, the Gloster VI 'Golden Arrow'. Initially, the S.S.21 was to be a straightforward landplane fighter development. However, the design team quickly realized that a cantilever wing would be aerodynamically cleaner and better able to support the fixed main undercarriage without recourse to additional stuts.

In 1930, the Gloster aircraft Company was entering a critical phase in its history. To speed aircraft design development, an in-house rivalry between two separate design teams was encouraged. In effect, the S.S.21 was a monoplane rival to Gloster's S.S.18/S.S.19 series which led to the Gauntlet biplane fighter.

Originally known as the 'Golden Arrow Fighter', the S.S.21 was to be powered by the Napier Lionheart -- a new, air-cooled derivative of Napier's venerable Lion 'broad-arrow' 12-cyl. Compared with the Lion, the Lionheart had an increased stroke (6 inch vs 5.125 in for the Lion). The resulting 1739 cid (28.5 L) Lionheart IA was expected to produce over 800 hp (compared with only 580 hp for the 1461 cid/24 L supercharged Lion).

Other than a raised cockpit, the S.S.21 fuselage differed little from that of the Gloster VI racer. The cantilever wing, however, was completely different. This wing employed typical Gloster construction  --  corrugated steel-strip spars and ribs -- but was covered with riveted dural sheeting in the American style.

The prototype S.S.21 came together quickly but the Napier Lionheart was still in its bench testing phase. To get the prototype into the air, a liquid-cooled Lion engine was substituted. Twin coolant radiators were scabbed on to the inner sides of the heavily trousered undercarriage legs. Using this arrangement, the prototype (G-EAYN) flew from Brockworth aerodrome in March 1934 before being sent on to RAF Martlesham Heath.

The Aeroplane and Armament Experimental Establishment assessment of the S.S.21 'Goral' (as it had been re-dubbed) was not especially flattering. The Lion lacked power and its radiators reduced top speed performance dramatically. In its tested form, the A&AEE could see no advantage over the in-service Hawker Harrier monoplane fighter. However, further development was encourage based on official interest in the Goral's proposed six-gun armament which was all to be mounted within the cantilever wing.

Upon the Goral's return to Brockworth, Gloster test-installed a non-flightworthy Napier Lionheart engine. The engine installation presented no unexpected challenges. However, Napier's Lionheart design was already in trouble. Test bench examples of this air-cooled engine suffered great overheating. Fan-cooling suggested one solution but, in November 1934, Gloster was informed of Napier's decision to terminate Lionheart development. Obviously, a new powerplant was called for ...
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Logan Hartke November 29, 2013, 11:49:16 AM
Oooh, very pretty.  Please continue.

Cheers,

Logan
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia November 29, 2013, 11:50:50 AM
Cheers Logan! More to come from Gloster ...  ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: PR19_Kit November 29, 2013, 05:58:19 PM
What a fabulous looking aeroplane!

Brian da Basher will LOVE those spats too!  :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin November 30, 2013, 03:49:14 AM
Sweet!

But those aren't spats...they're full on trousers!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia November 30, 2013, 06:39:32 AM
Thanks lads!

'Kit: This whole thread was inspired by a What-would-Brian-Do notion. I can't match BdB's unbridled creativity but its fun to play in an adjacent field  ;)

Greg: Over time, BdB has expanded into being an equal opportunity undercarriage-leg coverer. Trousers are just spats bursting with confidence  :D

Gloster S.S.22 Gorcock II

At the time that its S.S.21 Goral was abandoned, Gloster was already working on a replacement monoplane fighter design. The S.S.22 retained the Goral's wing but featured a revised fuselage (thereby losing its final commonality with the Gloster VI racer. This deeper fuselage was required for new powerplants to replace the failed Napier Lionheart.

Napier had not entirely given up on the Lionheart design, only on its 'broad arrow' layout. Instead, complete Lionheart cylinder banks were to be arranged in a horizontal 'H' format. The resulting 2318.5 cid (38 L) brute of an engine would become Napier's Lion 16. It was hoped that the horizontal 'H' layout would allow for better cylinder air flow and, thus, avoid the Lionheart's fatal cooling problems.

As with the S.S.21, the S.S.22 prototype airframe was completed long before its intended powerplant. At the A&AEE's suggestion, Gloster substituted a 600 hp Rolls-Royce Kestrel VIS for the unavailable Lion 16. With the Kestrel installed, the prototype S.S.22 flew at Brockworth in March 1935. For cooling, twin radiators were mounted inboard of the new, rearward-retractable undercarriage. Partially buried within the wing, these radiators proved remarkably low in drag.

The G.22 prototype was unarmed but, as the Gorcock II, armament options were twin, synchronized .5-inch machine guns mounted in the fuselage sides with options of an additional pair of wing-mounted BSA guns or four .303-inch wing guns firing outside the propeller arc. After successful trials at Martlesham Heath, the RAF elected to purchase the Gorcock II as a four-gunned interceptor.

The first production Gloster Gorcock Mk.I arrived at Duxford to begin re-equipping No.19 Squadron in October 1935. The Gorcock II proved fast, rugged, and reliable in service but only ever served with on squadron. The RAF wanted more Gorcocks but, it was claimed, the Brockworth plant could handle production of only one type and outstanding orders existed for the Gauntlet biplane fighter.

It has been claimed by some that Gloster's new owners, Hawker Siddeley, killed the Gorcock II to protect their own Harrier series and its Harpy derivative. But, as usual, the real story is more complicated. The Gorcock Mk.II was to have been powered by Napier's new Lion 16 but that engine was experiencing extended teething problems. With Hawker Siddeley's decision to end Gorcock production, the Mk.II programme was terminated.

Although the Gorcock II was built in small numbers, it had a lasting influence. It was not by accident that Hawker's later-production Harpies had metal-skinned wings with built-in armament. The Napier Lion 16 proved too heavy as a fighter engine but later came into its own as a fan-cooled bomber powerplant.


: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin November 30, 2013, 08:05:13 AM
Wicked!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe November 30, 2013, 11:24:11 AM
I do love your Gorcock Mk II, thanks! :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: finsrin November 30, 2013, 12:33:04 PM
S.S.21 Goral looks like it MUST be in some 1930s B&W aviation themed movie that I haven't seen yet.  :)
Should I be searching on Amazon or..... ?
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia December 08, 2013, 08:14:04 AM
Thanks lads. I had a few other ideas for this theme but got waylaid by menengitis.  I don't recommend it. I mean, two full days of rapid-fire hallucincations and not a single usuable whif concept in the lot !?!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Old Wombat December 08, 2013, 10:03:31 AM
Glad you got over that! Meningitis can be fatal, dude! :o

:)

Guy
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe December 08, 2013, 11:05:53 AM
Have a good recovery, apophenia... Take your time. We mostly need you alive, more than enjoying a constant rate of creations. ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Silver Fox December 08, 2013, 01:24:30 PM
YIKES!

I hope you have a speedy recovery and get back to full health soon.

I have to wonder though... When a whiffer hallucinates... wouldn't it be right for them to see realistic things?
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: PR19_Kit December 08, 2013, 02:21:04 PM
... wouldn't it be right for them to see realistic things?

Perish the thought!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: lauhof52 December 08, 2013, 02:55:49 PM
Have a good recovery, apophenia... Take your time. We mostly need you alive, more than enjoying a constant rate of creations. ;)

I second that!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Vuk December 09, 2013, 03:54:55 PM
Take care, man...

You are one of important players in these fields...

Wish You fast and successful recovery!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Litvyak December 09, 2013, 07:32:30 PM
Ooof, sorry to hear that! Here's hoping for a speedy recovery. :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia December 21, 2013, 11:04:04 AM
Wow, many thanks for the kind words and good wishes Lady and Gents. It means a lot! I'm on the mend ... but slowly.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia December 21, 2013, 11:06:24 AM
Il Figlio di Breda 27 metallico -- the Breda 66

The Societŕ Italiana Ernesto Breda was an early proponent of low-winged monoplane fighters, having produced the braced monoplane Breda 27 in 1933-35. Intended as a Ba.27 replacement, the Breda 66 fighter adopted the more advanced construction techniques of the Breda 65 as well as many of that attack aircraft's major components.

As was the case with the Breda 27, the Regia Aeronautica tested the new fighter but placed no order. However, the Republic of China Air Force was anxious to replace its battle-worn Breda 27 fleet and a dozen Breda 66 fighters were purchased in early 1937.

Breda 66 airframes were shipped to Kouang-Tchéou-Wan accompanied by Breda technicians who assembled them upon arrival in the French territory. After tests, the completed Breda 66s were flown to Nanning for familiarization training, before replacing the worn-out Breda 27s.

Top: Breda 66 #804 is shown here in its delivery colours. ROCAF markings have been applied but the aircraft retains artifacts of an earlier European sales tour -- large Breda logos on each  fuselage side. Before entering combat in the autumn of 1937, the ROCAF Breda 66s were sprayed in camouflage colours - dark green on the uppers and pale grey on the undersides.

The Chinese regarded the Breda 66 as a solid airframe let down by its unreliable Piaggio Stella P.IX radial. These original Italian engines were later replaced by Shvetsov M-25 radials (in cowlings taken from Polikarpov I-15 biplanes). Fixed armament for the Breda 66 was twin, wing-mounted 7,92 mm Brownings (the optional second pair of wing machine guns never being  fitted to the ROCAF fighters).

Just Add Water -- the Fiat/CMASA ICR.36 Float Fighter

The first low-winged Fiat fighter in Regia Aeronautica service came about almost by accident. Fiat designer, Giuseppe Gabrielli, had begun work on his new G.48 fighter but the pace of progress was very slow. Part of the delay was due to the unavailability of the fighter's Fiat A.37 V-12 engine (a 26 L derivative of the A.30 stroked to 152 mm).

Construction of G.48 components had begun at a CMASA, a Fiat subsidiary at Marina di Pisa. Fed  up with the delays, Fiat management ordered CMASA designer, Manlio Stiavelli, to adapt the completed G.48 wing components to fulfil a Servizio Aeronautico della Regia Marina requirement for a float fighter to replace the IMAM Ro.44 biplane.

Ing. Stiavelli's solution was to mate the G.48 wing panels to the steel-tube fuselage of the Fiat CR.32 (which he did under the direction of Gabrielli's great rival, Celestino Rosatelli). The twin floats were mounted with a simple set of bracing struts. Due to the chimerical nature  of the design, prototype construction was completed very quickly and the RM ordered 20 of these float fighters as the Fiat/CMASA ICR.36.

The ICR.36 were issued to the Squadriglie Caccia Marittima both in Italy and the Aegean. The fighter was popular with RM pilots but tricky for novices to handle - especially when landing in heavy seas. To familiarize new pilots, an operational conversion unit was formed at the Pola training school at Puntisella. The aircraft illustrated here wears the POL markings of the Pola school.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Silver Fox December 21, 2013, 12:49:57 PM
The Breda always makes me think that someone traced a Seversky product badly... forgot to trace the windscreen and then built it with flat plate where the canopy ended. :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Vuk December 21, 2013, 05:03:42 PM
Back in style!

Good to see You're with us again, Apophenia!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Logan Hartke December 22, 2013, 01:19:58 AM
Those look great, apophenia!  Well done!

Cheers,

Logan
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: lauhof52 December 22, 2013, 01:48:30 AM
Very nice! :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin December 22, 2013, 04:28:38 AM
That ICR.36 Float Fighter just must be built! :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia December 25, 2013, 12:01:40 PM
Thanks lads ... here's some more:

Yugoslav Harrier -- an Hispano-Suiza powered Hawker Fighter

The 'Yugoslav Harrier' was ordered as part of the 1935 modernization of Vazduhoplovstvo Vojske Kraljevine Jugoslavije. The first Harrier variant received by the  VVKJ was the Harrier Series 1 or 'Fairey Float Fighter' but that aircraft's Seafox landing gear proved too light. In early 1938, the surviving floatplanes were converted into land fighters by Zmaj (using new, Hawker-supplied wing sets).

The Zmaj conversions (Harrier Series 4) could be distinguished from other Yugoslav-assembled Harriers by their non-retractable tailwheels and armament. Harrier Series 2 aircraft were armed with 3 x 7.92 mm FN-Browning machine guns, Series 3 by twin 7.92 mm guns and an Oerlikon motor-cannon. Only the Series 1 and 4 Harrier had the 20mm HS-404 cannon.

Markings are the original overall silver-grey with the 'Kosovski krst' (Kosovo’s cross) roundels in four wing positions and Yugoslav tricolour rudder striping. These fighters were later resprayed in 3-colour upper camouflage with white aircraft numbers on the fuselage sides.

'Persian Harrier' - Napier-powered Hawker Fighter

The Imperial Iranian Air Force was the only buyer for the Dagger-powered Hawker Houri. These aircraft were intended for desert enviroments and meant as a stablemate for the 2-seat Hawker Hector. Iran's Hawker Houris (or Hūrī) were assembled at Bushehr and formed the fighter component of the IIAF's mixed type squadrons.

Houri #213 has been resprayed in the 1940 two-colour sand/stone camouflage scheme (some Houri also having their rudder stripes over-painted). This aircraft (which has had its canopy removed for some reason) was destroyed on the ground at Ahvaz airfield by RAF strafing on 27 August 1941.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin December 25, 2013, 12:02:49 PM
 :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Vuk December 25, 2013, 05:35:51 PM
Well, I don't know was this intentionally, but I feel flattered by seeing that Royal Yugoslav Air Force Harrier.

Great work, A!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: PR19_Kit December 26, 2013, 06:22:51 AM
'Persian Harrier' - Napier-powered Hawker Fighter

The Imperial Iranian Air Force was the only buyer for the Dagger-powered Hawker Houri.

I was planning to build a Dagger Hurricane, it'll be a lot easier now I've seen it for real. Nice job.  :))
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia December 27, 2013, 09:44:18 AM
Thanks folks!

I was planning to build a Dagger Hurricane, it'll be a lot easier now I've seen it for real. Nice job.  :))

Looking forward to seeing that PR19!  Just remember to remove the radiator bath ... I forgot the first time through  :-[
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: PR19_Kit December 27, 2013, 08:28:40 PM
Yes indeed, the Dagger's air-cooled for crying out loud!

But it doesn't look as if it should be for some reason, really weird, but it looked superb, especially on the MB2.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Silver Fox December 28, 2013, 08:14:59 AM
In an Iraqi example you could always claim it is an oil cooler. :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe December 28, 2013, 02:45:24 PM
Nice Huri, thanks! :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 02, 2014, 08:32:48 AM
Happy New Year to all!

In an Iraqi example you could always claim it is an oil cooler. :)
   ;D

Curtiss Aeroplane Company and Curtiss Aero-Engines

In the aftermath of the 1929 stock market crash, enforcement of US anti-trust laws regained some favour. As a token gesture, Washington disallowed the early merger of Curtiss Aeroplane and Motor and Wright Aeronautical companies. Accordingly, the new Curtiss-Wright company was dissolved. In January 1930, Curtiss reformed as the new Curtiss Aeroplane Company with a separate Curtiss Aero-Engines (CAE) division.

While Curtiss' aircraft order books were healthy, the aero-engine section had dwindled in anticipation of a shift to Wright air-cooled radial powerplants in future Curtiss aircraft. To make matter worse, Curtiss' won air-cooled H-1640 Chieftain proved a failure and the USAAC ceased development funding for the long-lived V-1570 Conqueror range of liquid-cooled V-12s. Curtiss Aero-Engines needed a shot in the arm.

Although dating back to 1924, the Conqueror series offered the best chance of success. What was needed was a boost in power for the heavier V-12 to match the performance in the new breed of air-cooled radials. To this end, CAE developed the Curtiss V-1647 Curvet. The Curvet was a Conqueror evolution but the two engine types shared few parts -- freeing Curtiss from any USAAC claims to 'ownership' of the new design.

The Curvet retained the Conqueror's 6.3386-inch stroke but increased cylinder bore to 5.626-inches. Early versions of this 27 litre V-12 developed 850 hp giving them a comfortable performance edge over the contemporary Wright Cyclone radials. Although not specifically aimed at the USAAC, Curtiss Aero-Engines adopted the 'designation' V-1647 to market their Curvet V-12.

Even before the breakup of Curtiss-Wright, design work had begun on a low-winged monoplane development of Curtiss' successful Hawk series of biplane fighters. Interest was expressed by several potential export customers and adaptation of the Hawk airframe to its new Model 64 'MonoHawk' configuration began in the summer of 1931. The first export sales were to Colombia and Boliva, both of which had chosen Cyclone-engined MonoHawks.

With an apparent export success on their hands, the Curtiss Board then made an uncoventional decision. Cyclone-engined Model 64 production was brought to an abrupt halt. Henceforth, all MonoHawks would be powered by Curtiss Curvet liquid-cooled V-12s.

Continued backstory to follow ...
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 02, 2014, 08:36:57 AM
Curtiss Model 64 MonoHawk

The first order for Curtiss' new Model 64 fighter came from Colombia. Along with 20 Falcons and 20 Curtiss Hawk IIs, 10 MonoHawks were ordered for the Fuerza Aérea Colombiana in August of 1932. The aerial defence of Bogotá was the original FAC plan for the MonoHawks. However, everything changed with the Letiçia Incident.

In late Dec 1932, the FAC fleet of Curtiss aircraft were fitted with floats and flown south to the Amazonas Department. The MonoHawks were based at El Encanto, an Armada Nacional base at the mouth of the Caraparaná River made available to FAC. The MonoHawks performed well making the most of their speed advantage. One aircraft (844) shared a kill (a CAP Douglas O-38P, 12VG4) with a Puerto Arica-based Hawk II.

(Top) FAC hidroavione MonoHawk 841, ANC El Encanto, Feb 1933. Note that this aircraft is fitted with a long-range belly tank, Curtiss Electic constant-speed propeller, and, like all float MonoHawks, retains its tail wheel.

The two-tone 'Amazonas' scheme degraded performance slightly but camouflaged the FAC fighters in their preferred climbing attacks. The original silver-grey dope is retained on the under surfaces. Yellow ID panels have been added to the rudder, cowling, and wing tips. The individual aircraft number was also re-applied in yellow.

The Letiçia coat of arms on the fuselage sides became the crest for Escuadrón de Combate 100.  During the Letiçia Incident, EdC 100 fighters also had individual names applied. MonoHawk 841 was dubbed 'Hiracüńo' (a local Huitoto word meaning 'wild bee'). MonoHawk 841 was lost in the Caraparaná on 16 April 1933 when Subteniente Juan Manuel Garzon stalled his fighter on approach.

Curtiss Model 65 'Cannoneer'

A prototype V-12 Model 64 powered by a V-1570 Conqueror had been flown in late 1931. The first V-1647 Curvet-powered MonoHawk, NX-1647, was retained by Curtiss as a demonstrator for several  years. In the Spring of 1933, NX-1647 was fitted with the new V-1647-20 'motor-gun' Curvet. This engine had a hollow propeller shaft allowing for the use of an unsynchronized machine gun or cannon.

Dubbed the Curtiss 'Cannoneer', the Model 65 demonstrator attracted considerable foreign attention. As part of its marketing strategy, Curtiss formed an alliance with Dansk Industri Syndikat to market the Madsen 20mm cannon which Curtiss would also build under licence. For the 1934 display season, the Model 65 had its cowl machine guns removed and a Madsen guns slung under each wing in a neat pod (with the shell drum enclosed in the wing itself). This variation on the 'Cannoneer' would represent the most heavily-armed single-engine fighter for some time. But all customers for the Model 65 preferred a single Madsen cannon with twin machine guns.

: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: elmayerle January 02, 2014, 09:16:33 AM
Very attractive aircraft and an interesting backstory; 'twill be rather interesting to see where this goes.  The large engine history in the US is tangled, especially when you consider that Pratt & Whitney Engines was founded by a bunch of dis-satisfied Wright engineers.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 17, 2014, 11:52:57 AM
Curtiss 2-Seat Fighters

Curtiss knew that its MonoHawk would soon be dated but first turned its attention to a more modern concept, the 2-seat Model 70 'Shrike Fighter'. Fuselage construction was similar to the Model 60 Shrike but this was now mated to a multi-spar cantilever wing.

Intended as an 'Escort Fighter', the Model 70 prototype was acepted by the US Army Air Corps as the Cohort, designated XPB-3 (in the short-lived Pursuit, Biplace category). This prototype was returned to Curtiss where, as the XPB-3A, it was fitted with a more fully-retractable  undercarriage -- the original underwing 'gondolas' being replaced by smaller fairings for main wheels that rotated 90° upon retraction.

Following trials at Wright Field, a production run of 24 aircraft was approved -- these Y1PB-3As replacing Berliner-Joyce PB-1 biplanes in the 95th Pursuit Squadron.

A second Model 70 prototype was created aimed at the US Navy. This aircraft was powered by Curtiss' new air-cooled Chieftain II engine. Initially designated XF12C-1, the naval fighter had its pilot's position moved forward and a fuel tank inserted between the two cockpits.

After trials at Pax River, the prototype's vertical tail fin was revised and move forward for greater control authority at higher angles of attack. Later, the tail arrangement was changed again -- to a high-mounted horizontal tailplane with a larger, rounded rudder.

Perforated flaps were then added, turning this fighter into a divebomber. This Model 70N entered US Nay service as the SBC-1 Helldiver. After brief shipboard service, the SBC-1s were turned over to the Marine Corps. Carrier squadrons took on SBN-2 (NAF-built Helldivers with Cyclone radials) while Curtiss continued to supply the USMC with Chieftain II-powered Helldivers.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe January 17, 2014, 12:33:57 PM
Nice Curtiss addition, thanks! (so much better than Real World...)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin January 18, 2014, 02:51:45 AM
Nice - the Cohort has a somewhat  IL-2 Sturmovik look to it.  Maybe a ground attack variant is in the future?? ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 22, 2014, 11:40:18 AM
Nice - the Cohort has a somewhat  IL-2 Sturmovik look to it.  Maybe a ground attack variant is in the future?? ;)

Not a bad idea ... a follow-on from the A-12 Shrike. Hmmm ...
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 22, 2014, 11:45:31 AM
Curtiss Model 74 / XF13C-1 SeaHawk Carrier Fighter Prototypes

The Curtiss Model 74 was designed to answer a 1935 US Navy requirement for a new aircraft carrier fighter. As a Grumman F3F replacement, the Model 74 was up against the Brewster B-239,  Grumman Model 16, and a Seversky private venture, the NF-1 (as well as unbuilt proposals from Vought and Bellanca).

Curtiss' Model 74 sprang directly from the 2-seat Model 70N. The wings were essentially Model  70 outer panels with the centre section deleted. The retractable undercarriage units were moved outboard as were the machine gun bays. The single-seat fighter retained the air-cooled Curtiss Chieftain II powerplant.

The USN had already shown its preference for the Wright R-1820 engine -- this radial powering the other three 1935 entries. In the end, the Navy preferred the Brewster entry (bought as the XF2A-1) and a revised Grumman design (bought as the XF4F-1). But Curtiss was in a position to deliver a prototype fighter sooner than its competition.

The prototype Model 74 flew in early April 1935. Although not their desired type, the Navy was intrigued by the Model 74's constant-speed four-bladed Curtiss Electric propeller. Also of interest were the neat cockpit canopy arrangement and the streamlined carrier hook.

The completed Model 74 prototype was delivered to NAS Patuxent River for testing as the XF13C-1 (dubbed, unofficially, the SeaHawk). Almost immediately, problems were apparent. Directional control was inadequate and the canopy -- although providing excellent visibility -- rattled excessively and, on one occasion, parted company with the aircraft in flight. The XF13C-1 was returned to Curtiss for modifications.

Curtiss redesigned the cockpit canopy altogether and took the opportunity to enlarge the rear fuselage fuel tank (conforming its shape to the revised upper fuselage line). The tailplane was enlarged and the supercharger intake was shortened to address another USN pilot complaints.

The revised XF13C-1A prototype was returned to Pax River for further testing. These tests were of singularly short duration. On its fourth flight, the USN test pilot took the wire in a simulated carrier landing. The aircraft landed safely but the stress of the arrestor wire and abrupt tail strike broke the back of the XF13C-1A.

The remains of the XF13C-1 were returned to Curtiss where the prototype was rebuilt as the Model 74E, an export fighter using simpler construction methods.
______________________________
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe January 22, 2014, 12:53:30 PM
In the end, the Navy preferred the Brewster entry (bought as the XF2A-1) and a revised Grumman design (bought as the XF4F-1).
So, this XF13C of 1935, if selected, could have been as famous a warbird as the Buffalo and Wildcat? Wow!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: lauhof52 January 22, 2014, 03:05:08 PM
Nice plane and nice story too! :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: finsrin January 22, 2014, 03:27:27 PM
That three illustration series flows purrrfect and so does background  :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Silver Fox January 24, 2014, 05:13:58 AM
I LOVE IT!

Curtis designed the "Corsair" first, screwed it up and reversed the evolution.

By the time Vought gets around to it eh Navy is thoroughly gun-shy and wants nothing to do with something that bears so much of a resemblance. :)

Great work as always.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 24, 2014, 05:42:54 AM
Cheers folks! Here's more on the alt-Curtiss story ...

The Curtiss Model 75 Hawk -- Domestic Success at Last!

In 1934, the US Army Air Corps issued a requirement for a new 'Pursuit' fighter aircraft. The timing could not have been better for Curtiss. Several months earlier, a team led by Don Berlin had begun a private-venture design for a new all-metal single-seat fighter.

The Model 75 employed the outer wing panels of the 2-seat Model 70 Cohort. As on Curtiss' Model  74 naval fighter, these panels were now joined on the centre line with their Boeing-patented retractable undercarriage moved outboard.

The fuselage of the Model 75 was a completely new design. This was a monocoque dural structure joined on the centre line after equipment was installed (including a rear fuselage fuel tank).  Power for the Model 75 was provided by an improved Curtiss V-1647 Curvet liquid-cooled V-12  with a new 2-stage supercharger.

The prototype Model 75 first flew in June 1935 but the MonoHawk-style radiator bath proved 'draggier' than expected. As the USAAC pursuit competition wasn't scheduled to begin until  August, Curtiss has time to tweak  their design. The block-type coolant radiator was removed and replaced but a U-shaped radiator which followed the contours of the bottom of the engine.

The new radiator arrangement reduced drag and increased maximum speed by 8 mph. The revised prototype, as the Curtiss Model 75A (unofficially refered to a the Hawk) was delivered to Wright Field at the end of July 1934. With a proven, reliable engine, the Model 75A was easily able to outperform it competitors fitted  with the USAAC's preferred Wright R-1820 radial (which was experience oil feed problems).

The USAAC accepted the prototype as their XP-36 and ordered a small production run of P-36A  pursuit fighters (Curtiss Model 75A-1s). Production P-36As differed from the prototype in being  fitted with 3-bladed propellers (it being reasoned that this would increase the rate of fire  from the synchronized cowl guns).  All but one of the production fighters were armed with 20mm  Curtiss-Madsen motor cannons (with twin .50-calibre Browning cowl guns and another pair of .30-cal Brownings in their wings). The third production aircraft (Model 75A-2) was armed with three .50-cal Brownings -- one firing through the propeller hub, plus two cowl guns.

___________________________

: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe January 24, 2014, 10:12:23 AM
Elegant designs! but... if the Model 75/P-36 has already an in-line engine, what will justify the P-40 code? A R-2000 or R-2800 engine?
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 25, 2014, 08:48:38 AM
... if the Model 75/P-36 has already an in-line engine, what will justify the P-40 code? ...

Patience Tophe  :D  However, you might like le contenu de la France that follows ...

Curtiss Success Abroad -- the Model 76 'Export Hawks'

When the Curtiss Model 75 fighter appeared in mid-1935, its performance caused quite a stir. However, US labour costs had already pushed unit costs to almost double that of contempory foreign monoplane fighters. The Model 75's monocoque fuselage structure was also beyond the capabilities of several smaller nations interested in licence construction.

To address these concerns, Don Berlin and team turned their attention to a more economical  fighter for export.  As recounted earlier, the remains of the damaged XF13C-1 naval fighter had been returned to Curtiss. This airframe formed the basis for the Model 76 export fighter (initially known as the Model 74E within Curtiss).

Simpler fuselage construction methods were employed on the Model 76 'Export Hawk'. In place of the monocoque structure of the Model 75, Curtiss returned to the MonoHawk's fabric-covered welded steel tube framework. A similar technique was used for the fixed empennage. The wing, however, retained the Model 75's sophisticated, multi-spar dural structure. But Curtiss offered its potential licencees the option of dometically- or US-built wings to be incorporated with locally-made fuselages and tails.

The prototype Model 76 retained the Model 74N's Chieftain II air-cooled powerplant. That  engine was chosen by Argentina for its Model 76AR 'Conquistador' and by Siam for its fixed-gear Model 76SI (with underwing 20mm Madsen guns). The big order for the 'Export Hawk', however,  came as a surprise even to Curtiss.

In 1938, France established a Commission des Achats in New York to buy US-made armaments. Members of this purchasing commission toured the Curtiss factory in Buffalo, NY where P-36 fighters were being  produced. The prototype Model 76 was also viewed. The cost advantages of the simpler Model 76 were obvious as were the performance benefits of the Model 75. So, the question arose: Why couldn't the Curvet powerplant of the Model 75 been installed in the Model 76 airframe?

France placed orders for 250 Curtiss Model 76FR fighters in three batches (75 x Curvet-powered Model 76FR-1s , 75 x HS 12Y-45-powered Model 76FR-2s, and 100 x Curvet-powered Model 76FR-3s) to augment its lagging Dewoitine D.515 production. The USAAC was somewhat alarmed by the size of this French order, fearing that Curtiss would be unable to meet its P-36 delivery schedule. Initially, the US Government was reluctant to approve this export contract. However, when Curtiss' lawyers pointed out that
both the V-1647 Curvet engine and the Model 76 airframe had been private-ventures paid for by Curtiss, approval for export was quickly granted.
__________________________
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe January 25, 2014, 03:07:32 PM
France placed orders for 250 Curtiss Model 76FR fighters in three batches (75 x Curvet-powered Model 76FR-1s , 75 x HS 12Y-45-powered Model 76FR-2s, and 100 x Curvet-powered Model 76FR-3s)
They are so nice... If I were the President, the order would have been 2,500+750+1,000...
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 27, 2014, 12:56:34 PM
Expanding the Breed -- Curtiss Model 75 Hawk Derivatives

Since the collapse of the merger with Wright, Curtiss management had resisted using engines made by  competitiors. This served Curtiss well in the case of the Model 75. However, the Army Air Corps  persisted with requests for a radial-engined Model 75 with which comparisons trails could be made.

With P-36A deliveries well underway, Curtiss finally relented. A P-36A airframe was taken from the  Buffalo production line and adapted to the most well-developed American radial engine suited to fighter aircraft -- the Pratt & Whitney R-1830 Twin Wasp. Completed as the Model 75P, the P&W engine was fan-cooled allowing it to be enclosed in a tight-fitting cowling. To get around competitor's  problems with overheated collector rings, Curtiss ran individual exhaust pipes to a fuselage-side vent.

The Model 75P was delivered to Wright Field for trials. Although it remained company-owned, the Model 75P was designated XP-40 for the comparison trials with a service P-36A. For speed trials, both fighters were unarmed and highly polished to gauge their Vmax. The Model 75P performed well in its trials but offered little advantage over the production P-36A. By comparison, the 'Pratt Hawk' would be inferior in armament, having to give up the Madsen motor cannon.

No Army Air Corps orders were forthcoming for the P-40 but the Model 75P served as an aerodynamic  testbed for Curtiss, trialling clipped wing tips, more streamlined tailwheel enclosures, a bulged  canopy, and other attempts at improving the Model 75 line.

Turbocharged -- The High-Altitiude Curtiss XP-37 'TurboHawk'

The Army Air Corps was also interested in turbocharged, high-altitude interceptors. The planned  fighter was the radical Bell XP-39. But the USAAC wanted a simpler backup design. Curtiss was asked to provide a turbocharged P-36 derivative. This appeared as the Model 75T 'TurboHawk'.

To create the Model 75T, Don Berlin adapted the XP-36A airframe to take a General electric 'Form 10' turbocharger in the rear fuselage. Extended exhaust pipes fed the turbocharger and an intercooler was squeezed in between the turbo and the repositioned radio compartment.

The turbocharger proved unreliable and, eventually, suffered a main bearing failure. The 'Form 10'  unit was replaced by GE's improved B-2 turbocharger. This production-quality turbo was superior but there were still reliability issues. Nonetheless, the USAAAC wished to press on and requested that the prototype Model 75T be transferred to Wright Field at Dayton, OH, for evaluation as the XP-37.

After taking off from Buffalo Airport on 13 May 1937 enroute for Wright Field, the XP-37's turbo began overspeeding. The pilot, Herbert O. Fisher, throttled back and turned for Buffalo but the prototype was soon rocked by a catastrophic turbine failure. With the tail control lines severed, the pilot had no option but to abandon the aircraft. Fisher hit the silk and the by-now flaming XP-37 was lost in Lake Erie.
_______________________________________________
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Logan Hartke January 27, 2014, 01:08:10 PM
I'll take a dozen of the top one, please!

Cheers,

Logan
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe January 27, 2014, 11:38:53 PM
Great enrichment to the Curtiss Family (Beauty Department) :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: perttime January 28, 2014, 01:11:09 AM
mmmm and then the Russians found out about the "TurboHawk" and told  Nikolai Polikarpov to design something as sleek (MiG-1 which was developed into MiG-3).
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 30, 2014, 12:06:34 PM
Thanks folks! If there's interest, I'll return to the wartime Curtisses later ...

I'll take a dozen of the top one, please!

Cheers Logan! Were I doing it again, I think the XP-40 would get an extended rear fuselage (she looks a little nose heavy with that engine-cooling fan up front).
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 30, 2014, 12:09:30 PM
The Bowless Arrow -- Fiat's G.48 Freccia

The first Fiat monoplane fighter design came from Giuseppe Gabrielli. But  Ing. Gabrielli was dodged by engine availability. His first foray into monoplane fighters was the Fiat A.37-powered G.48 (I). But this V-12 (a 26 L derivative of the A.30 stroked to 152 mm) was cancelled in favour of more advanced engine designs.

The G.48 (II) was redesigned to accept Fiat's A.38 RI.C.15/45, a 1200 hp inverted 16-cylinder type derived from the earlier, 24-cylinder AS.6 racing engine. A functioning engineering mockup of the G.48 (II) was completed in time to be exhibited at the Milan Air Show in Dec 1936.

The 'prototype' G.48 (II) was a bit of Fascisti showmanship. Neither the airframe nor the engine were airworthy -- the latter being little more than a dressed-up block. Fiat would struggle for several years with the A.38 V-16 but the G.48 needed a functioning engine.

The true prototype G.48 flew on 23 March 1937 from Caselle, Turin. This aircraft was powered by a 900 hp Isotta Fraschini Asso Caccia L.121 R.C.40 V-12.* This was a heavy engine so the coolant radiator was moved from under the nose to beneath the cockpit to re-establish the c/g.
___________________________________

* An inverted version of the L.121 version of the Asso, the A.120 R.C.40, was originally planned.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Logan Hartke January 30, 2014, 12:15:58 PM
Cheers Logan! Were I doing it again, I think the XP-40 would get an extended rear fuselage (she looks a little nose heavy with that engine-cooling fan up front).

By the way, did you figure out the scale on that R-1830?  It looked a little small, to be honest.

Cheers,

Logan
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe January 30, 2014, 12:44:50 PM
Nice G.48, almost as beautiful as a G.55 :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia February 06, 2014, 04:59:54 AM
By the way, did you figure out the scale on that R-1830?  It looked a little small, to be honest.

You may be right Logan. I wanted a much tighter cowling (more La-5 than P-36) but just guesstimated the size for that image.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia February 06, 2014, 05:02:31 AM
'If it weren't for bad luck, Giuseppe Gabrielli wouldn't have no luck at all.'

Ing. Gabrielli's problems with engine availability continued with his G.48 design. The inverted Asso Caccia A.120 R.C.40 proved overweight and was abandoned. Count Ciano's attempts to normalize relations with Czechoslovakia suggested the possibility of licenced production of the Avia 1000, an HS.12Y development. Accordingly, the Fiat G.48 (II) mockup was adapted to the Czech upright V12 engine.

To speed the process, Fiat began small-scale production of the G.48 (IIAv) at the CMASA factory in Marina di Pisa. But Italo-Czechoslovak relations collapsed and with them went any chance of producing the Avia 1000 in Italy. CMASA found itself with a line of semi-completed G.48 fighters and no engines.

CMASA designer, Manlio Stiavelli, saw an opportunity to test a catapult fighter concept for a Servizio Aeronautico della Regia Marina requirement. CMASA had already provided the Regia Marina with a floatfighter using the G.48 (I) wing, the Fiat/CMASA ICR.36. If the proposed  catapult fighter design was successful, a float version might also eclipse the ICR.36.

The Fiat/CMASA G.48C (for Catapultibile) used the same Fiat A.30 engine as the ICR.36. The fighter was underpowered but successfully proved the catapult fighter concept. The Regia Marina requested that the remaining 12 G.48 (IIAv) airframes be completed as G.48Cs to familiarize the Squadriglie Caccia Marittima with catapult fighters. The converted G.48Cs formed a training  unit at the Pola training school at Puntisella. The aircraft illustrated here is the prototype G.48C conversion at Marina di Pisa prior to being transferred to the Pola school.
_____________________________
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Logan Hartke February 06, 2014, 05:52:42 AM
Ah, lovely.  The top one looks very much like the Arsenal VG-33.

Cheers,

Logan
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe February 06, 2014, 12:52:51 PM
Beautiful family, thanks! :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia February 12, 2014, 10:15:42 AM
The top one looks very much like the Arsenal VG-33.

Thanks Logan ... that was the look I was going for.

Fiat/CMASA G.49 - A Second Arrow in the Quiver

With its old Fiat A.30 engine, the Fiat/CMASA G.48C catapult trainer was never going to be an operational aircraft. Knowing the Regia Marina's preference for air-cooled engines, CMASA designer, Manlio Stiavelli, proposed a G.48 variant re-engined with the only available Fiat powerplant with a reputation for reliability -- the A.74 14-cylinder radial.

The RM agreed to Stiavelli's proposal but wanted to test this new model as a potential replacement for the now-outdated ICR.36 seaplane. Accordingly, CMASA adapted a G.48C airframe for both the A.74 radial and for modernized versions of the ICR.36's twin floats. The finished float fighter, designated ICS.49, was delivered to the Pola training school at
Puntisella. The RM was also expressed interested in a 'catapultibile' version of the same airframe. However, at this point, the Ministero della Aeronautica intervened. The Regia Marina had lost its chance at a new fighter design.

(Top) The prototype prior to its transfer to the Pola training school at Puntisella (and before having its SAFAR A.R.C.1 radio receiver installed).

Giuseppe Gabrielli had also been developing his fighter design, the Daimler-Benz powered G.50. The G.50 prototype was being demonstrated to the Regia Aeronautica at Guidonia and production of this refined version had already begun at the Fiat factory in Turin. Stiavelli quickly adapted his A.74-powered design to the airframe of the G.50. The result was the CS.49bis.

The CS.49bis was ordered for the RA's Gruppi d'Assalto as a partial replacement for the unstasfactory Breda 65. The Sottoserie 0 CS.49bis were conversions of Fiat-built airframes. For the Serie 1, CMASA combined Turin-built components with Marina di Pisa-built forward fuselages and engine mounts.

The CS.49bis Serie 1 were armed with four 7.7mm Breda-SAFAT machine guns (two in the cowl and one in each outer wing panel) and fitted with a centre-line bomb rack. The Serie 2 was uparmed with two 12.7mm Breda-SAFATs requiring twin bumps in the cowl (earning the type the nickname of "l'urto"). The Serie 2 could be fitted with twin underwing bomb racks or a single centre section rack. The Serie 3 reintroduced the wing 7.7mm guns but at the expense of the wing rack option. The main production type, the Serie 4, returned to the Serie 2 armament arrangement but incorporated some cockpit armour and a dust-filter for the supercharger intake.

(Bottom) A Fiat/CMASA CS.50bis (Serie 2) of 159Ş Squadriglia, 12ş Gruppo, 50° Stormo d'Assalto, Libya, Nov-Dec 1940. Special markings include the Squadriglia emblem of Disney's Ezechiele Lupo ('Zeke Wolf' aka il lupo cattivo) on the tail fin together with "Antonio Dell'Oro" (in memory of the fallen Squadriglia Commander, Capitano Dell'Oro).
______________________________
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Silver Fox February 12, 2014, 12:18:50 PM
I REALLY like the float version... very sexy!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: jcf February 13, 2014, 03:07:37 PM
R-1830 varied from a little over 45 inches to 48 inches in diameter, F-series V-1710 was 37.6 inches high.
So that's a rough start for engine dimensions, however those numbers do not directly transfer to airframe cowl
lines as how the engine is mounted and how closely it is cowled determine the actual mould line. P & W engineer
Andrew Wilgoos hated the oversized nacelles of the Douglas C-74 for the R-4360, sarcastically suggesting they
use the extra area as a luggage compartment.

P & W had been working on improved higher power R-1535 in the pre-war period, canceling development
after the 950hp -64 (forcing Grumman to change to R-1820s for the F5F) to concentrate on the R-1830 and
R-2800. So one wonders what a two-speed/two-stage or turbo-supercharged R-1535 could have done. The
R-1535 were ~ 44 inches in diameter.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia February 18, 2014, 09:48:32 AM
Thanks Jon ... interesting stuff. A  two-stage R-1535 would've been interesting (although not much saved on diameter, I guess).

Here's another Fiat development. No backstory typed out yet ...
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe February 18, 2014, 11:30:43 AM
Gorgeous! :-* :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia February 27, 2014, 04:12:23 AM
Thanks Tophe! Here's a pair for Silver Fox ...
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Logan Hartke February 27, 2014, 04:37:23 AM
Very pretty, apophenia!  That bottom one is especially attractive.  It looks like Schneider goes to war!

Cheers,

Logan
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia March 01, 2014, 12:05:22 PM
Thanks Logan!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Silver Fox March 05, 2014, 06:22:57 AM
Very nice!

The Schneider goes to war feel comes across very strong.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe March 05, 2014, 08:23:49 AM
Yes, belated congratulations for the beautiful idro with in line engine, so beautiful... :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia March 15, 2014, 10:38:34 AM
A Mini-Skycrane -- the Kelowna Flightcraft KF-61 Krane

Anticipating the retirement of US Navy SH-3A ASW helicopters, Kelowna Flightcraft began detail design of civilianized Sea King variants in 1983. The KF Fire King was a dedicated fire fighting conversion while the KF-61 was a passenger or utility transport.

In 1985, work began on a more radical rebuild of surplus Sea Kings. In effect, this was to be a reduced-scale version of Sikorsky's S-64 Skycrane. Emerging in 1987 as the KF-61 Krane, this heavy-lifter was seen as a natural for heli-logging and construction work.

Kelowna Flightcraft partnered with Fleet Aerospace of Fort Erie, ON which provided the new fuselage 'plank' to which KF attached a suitably modified SH-3A nose section and drivetrain. Fleet also began work on a new all-composite nose section for the KF-61C, a proposed Krane development with uprated Rolls Royce Gnome H.1400-2 turbines.

Something Old, Something New, Something Borrowed, and Something Composite

Fleet became convinced that aged S-61 airframes were not that popular in the civilian market. However, a healthy supply of surplus Sea King parts existed (and would grow as more SH-3s were replaced by new SH-60s). The answer, it was decided, was to marry those parts to a new, composite airframe as the FA.161 Fulmar.

Although aimed primarily at offshore platform work, Fleet elected to eliminate the S-61 'boat hull'. Instead, a more conventional tricycle landing gear was adopted. Above the roofline, the FA.161CU (Civil Utility) was identical to the S.61 and Series I aircraft re-used Sea King tail structures as well. The concept was a success and orders from civilian operators began to flow in.

For the FA.161, Fleet re-partnered with Kelowna Flightcraft and, to gain Sea King expertise, allied itself with Westland Helicopters of Weston-super-Mare, UK. KF did much of the surplus 'parts sourcing' at its Kelowna facility and rebuilt S-61 tail units at its Hamilton, ON, facility. Westland would handle FA.161 exports outside North America and supply parts -- most particularly, composite main and tail rotor assemblies.

[To be continued ...]
-----------------------------------
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: kerick March 15, 2014, 10:59:02 AM
Interesting idea. I like the look of the Sea King crane. It's so ugly, you just have to love it!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe March 15, 2014, 12:26:20 PM
I love those two, nicely completing the S-61 family... :-* :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: finsrin March 15, 2014, 12:26:59 PM
Sea King crane --- really clever concept :)
Like how it looks for what it is.  Ya got the grey cells working on that one.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: jcf March 15, 2014, 01:23:21 PM
Nice stuff Apo, one note though, the reason Helipro, and others, were doing the shortening
of L and N model airliners for the logging market (I worked on the Helipro project in the mid-90s)
is because Transport Canada would not allow ex US military SH-3As to operate in Canada. The
military paperwork wasn't up to snuff, in their opinion, and that model had never received a civil certification, unlike the airliner variants.



: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: PR19_Kit March 15, 2014, 03:26:03 PM
Nice stuff Apo, one note though, the reason Helipro, and others, were doing the shortening
of L and N model airliners for the logging market (I worked on the Helipro project in the mid-90s)
is because Transport Canada would not allow ex US military SH-3As to operate in Canada. The
military paperwork wasn't up to snuff, in their opinion, and that model had never received a civil certification, unlike the airliner variants.

Luckily in WhiffWorld all such paperwork is consinged to the waste bin IMMEDIATELY on printing and is ignored.  :) ;) :D
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: kerick March 16, 2014, 12:17:19 AM
Here is a story about converting a Cobra to a civilian heavy lift helicopter.
http://www.helis.com/stories/mil2civ.php (http://www.helis.com/stories/mil2civ.php)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia March 16, 2014, 10:56:35 AM
Thanks folks!

Jon: Interesting detail, thanks for that! For the sake of the backstory, would that TC ban apply only to complete ex-SH-3 airframes or to their components as well?

kerick: Wow! Thanks for the link. Converting Cobras to heavy-lift. Now why didn't I think of that ...
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia March 16, 2014, 11:00:30 AM
Military Service for 'Canadianized' Sea King Derivatives

In 1993 the Government of Canada cancelled its CH-124 Sea King replacement orders for military EH101s -- CH-148 Petrel shipboard ASW aircraft and CH-149 Chimo search-and-rescue helicopters. It was then suggested that the Sea King-derived KF-61 Krane might suit as a shipboard VertRep aircraft to take some of the strain off of the aging CH-124B fleet.

To test this proposal, Kelowna Flightcraft loaned its demonstrator KF-61 to DND. Initially designated CH-148, the heavy-lift helicopter was assigned to HOTEF at CFB Shearwater for testing. Although the 'Sea Krane' could hoist a heavier load than the standard CH-124B, the lifter would not easily fit into existing shipboard hangars. For a production type (by now redesignated CH-161K), KF proposed a folding tailboom to shorten length and a 'kneeling' undercarriage to reduce height.

"bid most fairly for utility, honour, and happiness"

Politically, the most pressing problem was the need for a new SAR helicopter. To fill this role, the GoC adopted the Fleet FA.161 Series I aircraft as the CSR-149 Guillemot.  As with the Krane, the Guillemot designation was quickly changed, in this case to CH-161S (although the 9' series aircraft serials stuck). Other than military avionics and SAR equipment, the CH-161S was essentially the same as the civil FA.161CU.

The Canadian Forces saw the CH-161S as a limited success. It was familiar to mechanics but rather short on range compared with the retiring CH-113 Labradors. This would be alleviated somewhat with the introduction of the CH-161S-2 upgrades which included sponson pylons for new long-range fuel tanks.

[To be continued ...]
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia March 17, 2014, 04:28:23 AM
'Canadianized' Sea King Derivatives - Utility Fulmars in Camouflage

While the CH-161S Guillemot SAR helicopter was entering Canadian Forces service, Fleet Aerospace was preparing the aerodynamically improved FA.161 Series II. The Government of Canada saw further military potential for the Fulmar but production at Fleet's modest Fort Erie facility was too slow. Accordingly, the GoC swung a deal with Bell Textron Canada.

In compensation for reduced orders of CH-146 Griffons, Bell would perform final assembly of military FA.161 helicopters.*  The first Mirabel-assembled FA.161 variants were 10 CH-161A Fulmar shipboard utility aircraft (known to Fleet as the FA.161MU Seafarer, the Navy prefered the original, bilingual name).

The CH-161As were followed by 10 essentially similar CH-161B-1 Falcons, the first order for Canadian Army FA.161UHs to complement the smaller CH-146 Griffons. Both CH-161A and CH-161B could be fitted with door-mounted C6 GPMG machineguns. The naval Fulmar carried a Wescam MX-10 electro-optical turret as standard. This E/O was an optional fit for the Army's Falcon utility helicopters.

------------

* Bell would also see some CH-146 orders shifted to B412s for the Canadian Coast Guard.

: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: jcf March 17, 2014, 06:02:28 AM
It depends on the component, but, yes it does for some. Not that the law has stopped some
Canadian firms from using Bell and Sikorsky parts of questionable origin.
 :-\



: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe March 17, 2014, 02:18:03 PM
Interesting versions, thanks!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia March 19, 2014, 05:16:29 AM
Thanks folks!

Son of Sea King gains his Sea Legs -- the CH-161C Neptune

Ironically, the most challenging Canadian Forces role to fill was that of shipboard helicopter. There was no difficulty in shipboard operations -- these were already being performed by the CH-161 Fulmar Maritime Utility helicopters. Instead, the problem was an overly ambitious approach to ASW mission systems.

After considerable delays with purpose-designed mission kit, Fleet was instructed to bypass Maritime Helicopter Project sub-contractors and install refurbished HELTAS ASW gear from retiring CH-124B-2 Sea Kings. This compromise shipboard helicopter entered service as the 'Interim Maritime Helicopter' or CH-161C-1 Neptune (another bilingual name to distinguish 'C models from the utility 'As).

A modest tweek to electronics was performed under NAUP, the Neptune Avionics Upgrade Program. However, operational experience was showing that Neptune weight-gain needed to be countered with greater power. Unfortunately, General Electric had ceased production of the T58 engines in 1984. A new powerplant was needed to realize the full potential of the CH-161C.

A mid-life program -- NIMP, the Neptune Incremental Modernization Project -- introduced 1,660 shp Rolls-Royce Gnome H.1400-2 turbines as recommended by Westlands. This increase in power was absorbed by broader composite main rotor blades and a new, 6-bladed tail rotor. The most noticeable airframe changes under NIMP were the introduction of twin sponson pylons. The result was the CH-161C-2.

The final phase of NIMP introduced entirely new mission electronics, dramatically changing the profile of the Neptune's nose. The final phase NIMP upgrade also introduced an FA.161 Series III-style sliding door on the portside. Fully NIMP upgraded Neptunes were redesignated CH-161C-3.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Talos March 19, 2014, 10:08:20 AM
I really like that Neptune. Surprisingly nice-looking, very balanced design. The nose addition is perfect and really changes the whole feel of the chopper right there. Superb!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia March 19, 2014, 10:35:33 AM
Cheers Talos!

Rotory-Wing Support for the 'Men in Black' -- FA.161 SOAH/CH-161D

The FA.161 Series III portside sliding door had been introduced on the handful of CH-161Ds created for CF SOF. Technically Series IIAs, these mystery aircraft were hand-assembled at Fleet and seem never to have been assigned serials. As delivered, the CH-161D-1 (aka CH-161 SOA) was powered by 1,535 shp R-R Gnome H.1400-1s (and could be readily distinguished by their 6-bladed tail rotors).

Assigned to 427 Special Operations Aviation Squadron at CFB Petawawa, the details behind the SOA Falcons are a little sketchy. The CH-161D-2 appears to denote a defensive aids suite upgrade. The CH-161D-3 conversion involved the installation of more powerful Gnome H.1400-2 turbines and some additional optional equipment (including, as shown, an inflight refuelling probe and DIRCM pods).

The first actual Series IIIs into Canadian Forces service were CH-161B-3s for TacHel Aviation. These aircraft also had Gnome H.1400-1s and could be fitted with an optional second door C6 GPMG. Pylons and exhaust signation suppressors were also options (though rarely fitted). Half of the second Falcon order was filled with CH-161B-3 and the entire third order was comprised of Series III aircraft.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: elmayerle March 19, 2014, 08:26:08 PM
Beautiful!!  Perhaps a re-engining at some point.  I believe the CT7/T700 would be adequate as would the equivalent engine from PWAC; the latter might also be an easier sell.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: jcf March 20, 2014, 12:15:01 AM
Cool stuff.

For reference here is a Sikorsky GA of the S-61N, note the different tail pylon of the L and N,
the shortened models flying around, VHI, HeliJet, Hayes etc., have that pylon:

(http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww291/joncarrfarrelly/S61N_01.png)

I also have a stations/waterlines drawing along with details of the pylon, L model fixed gear,
bulkheads,etc., all copied from the structural repair manual.

Another drawing I need to scan is a GA of the Shortsky conversion I made with
old school cut-n-paste + Xerox methods.
 ;D

A couple technical things, from sta.32 to sta.110 under the cockpit floor is the E & E bay, which
is stuffed full of avionics. Behind the flight deck, on the right side, is the control closet with the
rotor control servos and AFCS electronics.

And some trivia on the logging machines, the cockpit side windows are bulged out so the pilot
can look down at the ground and some machines have a small auxiliary instrument panel mounted
on the left side in the pilot's line of vision so the engines can be monitored while looking at the
ground. They are also primarily flown from the left seat, rather than the right, when logging.

: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia March 20, 2014, 04:18:58 AM
Beautiful!!  Perhaps a re-engining at some point.  I believe the CT7/T700 would be adequate as would the equivalent engine from PWAC; the latter might also be an easier sell.

Evan: You have anticipated me :)

Jon: Great stuff! And I'd love to see that S-61 station drawing.

You've answered one of my questions -- can the starboard sliding door be placed directly aft of the flight deck. Answer: not if that control closet stays in situ.

For my next incarnation, I wanted to have sliding doors on both sides. I guess they'll have to be at least slightly staggered (maybe a good thing?).
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia March 20, 2014, 04:22:19 AM
Step-Son of Sea King -- Fleet Aerospace's FA.261 Super Fulmar

The FA.161 had local military success but civil sales were modest. Competition came from Aérospatiale's AS 332L Super Puma and Fleet Aerospace has hard pressed to escape trade show jibes about recycling 'ancient technologies'.  Another problem originated with the Goverment of Canada which was resistant to funding further development of an airframe relying on imported engines.

The initial appeal of the FA.161 had been its proven drivetrain and rotors. Now those very features had become a liability. Fleet Aerospace's solution was to find a new, Canadian-made engine for its now-proven Fulmar airframe. The initial choice was a turboshaft version of the 1,590 shp PW115. But Pratt & Whitney Canada's elected to shelf that engine in favour of more powerful variants. So, a turboshaft PW120 derated to 1,650 shp was settled upon for the FA.261 Super Fulmar.*

To prototype its new concept, Fleet Aerospace began conversion of an FA.161MU airframe that had been returned to the OEM after suffering a major engine fire. CH-161A serial 161912 was fitted with twin, rear-mounted PW120TS turbines and a new transmission. To balance this new powerplant arrangement, the forward fuselage was extended (and an enlarged sliding door installed). Thus modified, the redubbed FA.161PW flew to test the engine installation.

After concluding its test period, the FA.161PW was shipped to Yeovil where Westland re-engined it with twin 1,500 shp Rolls-Royce Turbomeca RTM322 engines. This engine was to be the European standard for FA.261s (although the type was offered assembled with PW120TS powerplants as an option for the European market).
________________________________

* The PW120 was chosen as the basis for a turboshaft variant for its wider use in Canada (compared with the PW118).
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia March 27, 2014, 09:55:53 AM
Got inspired by Jon's coverage of the unbuilt Harry Miller/Keith Rider V16-powered racer.
http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=3909.0 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=3909.0)

Harry Miller also built V16s for Ford's 1935 Indy 500 submission. So, I decided to 'Fordify' the Rider-Miller design as a sportster/fighter aircraft...

Top - A sportster with an IV-1200, evaporation cooling, conventional open cockpit, longer undercarriage legs, and Ford Flivver-style rudder-steered tailwheel.

Bottom - The revised Ford F1600 fighter, a bid for a USAAC light fighter. Upright V-1200 engine, Prestone cooler, larger tailplane, and a more conventional tailwheel.

Scrap view - Ford F1600 fighter as revised with a collector tube replacing individual exhaust stubs.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: jcf March 27, 2014, 12:57:48 PM
Very nice stuff.  :)

One little note, the 1935 Miller-Fords were powered by Ford V-8s, pretty much
standard flatties turned back-to-front driving the front wheels. Miller and his
crew designed the cars, but not the engines.
 :)

: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe March 27, 2014, 03:25:38 PM
Very nice stuff.  :)
I agree!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Silver Fox March 28, 2014, 06:21:58 AM
As the Flivver is one of my all time favourite Golden Era aircraft...

BRAVO SIR! BRAVO! :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia March 29, 2014, 04:52:49 AM
Cheers 'Fox!

Jon: Thanks for the correction. I had confused the supercharged 303 V16 with the 308 V8! If anyone want to further explore this Miller muddle ...
http://www.rickcarey.com/Catalog%20Descriptions/RM%20LA%20052502%20Miller%20V16.htm (http://www.rickcarey.com/Catalog%20Descriptions/RM%20LA%20052502%20Miller%20V16.htm)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin March 29, 2014, 05:32:12 AM
Sweet!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia April 02, 2014, 06:18:55 AM
Building Dewoitines in America

I was surprised to read that Ford had been contracted by France to license-build an Allison V-1710-powered Dewoitine D.520 development in the US. So, this is more of an 'almost-was' rather than a true whif ...

I moved the dates back so that the first Ford-built D.522C.1s were arriving in France just before the Armistice. The D.522 would have been weakly armed compared with the D.520 (having lost the 20mm cannon). I'm imagining the Armée de l'Air issuing them to Groupes Aériens d'Observation to act as tactical recce fighters.

The Aéronavale was also expecting deliveries of D.520s. Instead, I've got the navy receiving D.522s which were issued to Escadrilles AC1 and AC2 (Avions de Chasse).

Then the whif starts. In the RW, Ford was also working on a new, fuel-injected V-12. This engine was to have the same dimension as the Royce-Rolls Merlin and similar construction (aluminum block and heads) but would have had dual overhead camshafts.
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,5494.0.html (http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,5494.0.html)

In my whif, Ford accelerates development of their V-12 to replace Allison V-1710C-15s. To save on development time, the Ford V-12 was adapted to take the Szydlowski-Planiol S-39-H3 supercharger from the D.520's Hispano-Suiza 12Y-45 engine. The opportunity was also taken to allow for the installation of an HS404 moteur-canon firing through the hub of a Ratier 1060 propeller.

In early May 1940, production at Ford Aircraft Division's Oakland County plant shifted to the new fighter -- dubbed D.523 by SNCAM and the AdlA. Ford had its own designation system.  Ford applied Type 15 to the D.520 (later F.150 to follow French designation patterns). Ford-built D.522s became the Type 15A/F.151. The Type 15B/F.152 was a still-born plan to build Merlin-powered D.520s. So, the Ford V-12-powered aircraft became the Type 15B/F.153.

[To be continued ...]
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe April 02, 2014, 06:33:26 AM
Very beautiful new silhouettes. I love your parallel universe :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Vuk April 02, 2014, 03:27:10 PM
Excellent as always. I can't believe how good looks the lower one with(out) markings.  :)

I also must add that you're confused me a little with those choppers. I'm not saying that they aren't good, but I'm the old-fashioned guy and I'm always happy to see something from the Golden Age or WWII.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: jcf April 05, 2014, 12:04:24 AM
The Ford V-12 valve gear was fairly 'Miller-ish', if you catch my drift.  ;)

BTW the S-P supercharger was one of the weaknesses of the H12Y, it was not the best of designs.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia April 05, 2014, 03:38:30 PM
Thanks folks. Vuk: My preference is for 1930-1945 too. But it is an on-going puzzle to me why helicopter producers have such difficulty getting completely new models into service these days. It made me wonder why there haven't been more military evolutions of older designs.

Jon: The Miller V-16 was what made me think of the unbuilt Ford V-12 ;)

Thanks for the tip on the Szydlowski-Planiol. I went with that design mostly because the Ford's supercharger hung down so far (RW, maybe intended for bombers?). In any case, it wasn't going to fit easily on to a Dewoitine!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia April 05, 2014, 03:40:17 PM
Ford-Built Dewoitines after the Fall of France

The Ford F.152s in production as D.522s Forbans (Pirates) could not be delivered after the Fall of France. These fighters were stockpiled at Ford Aircraft Division's Oakland County facility until a new buyer could be found.

The cannon-armed F.153 prototype was tested the USAAC and it was suggested that the Allison-engined F.152s could be employed as fighter trainers. However the US Government was more interested in buying combat types.

Interest in the F.152 was first expressed by a purchasing commission of the Chinese Nationalist government. After trials in Michigan, the 24 completed F.152s (including the prototype were quietly shipped to China. These fighters equipped ROCAF 5th Group's 17th Squadron (replacing Dewoitine D.510s). Illustrated is a well-worn Chinese F.152 at Kunming in May 1942 (note that the lower undercarriage leg covers have been removed to clear mud).

Ford had anticipated that the USAAC would not be interested in the F.153 beyond its cannon armament. In an attempt to improve the breed, Ford undertook a redesign of the fighter. For the F.154, the Dewoitine fuselage was rearranged - the cockpit being moved forward and the fuel tank moved aft (in the style of the Curtiss P-36A). The prototype was delivered to Wright Field as the XP-45A* in September 1940.

The prototype F.154 was unarmed but it was intended that production versions be fitted with 4 x .30" wing guns and a .75" motor-cannon. Designed specifically for the V-1640 Fortis engine, the cannon fired a .75" x .325" HE round (making the gun lighter and more compact than the 20mm HS404).
------------------------

* NB: The RW P-45 designation was applied to what emerged at the P-39C Airacobra.

[To be continued ...]
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe April 05, 2014, 05:07:56 PM
I love this moving back and forth of the canopy (while I prefer the rear position). I have played like that with a P-51.
Thanks for this further enrichment of the poor D.520 family...
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia April 11, 2014, 06:25:01 AM
Foxhunter - Ford-Built Dewoitines in RAF Service

Although the Ford F.154 was of no interest to the US military, the RAF was happy to accept it. The Foxhunter Mk.IA entered service in late 1941 (all being  desert-adapted Mk.Is). Powered by the V-1640 Fortis engine, the early Foxhunters were armed with 4 x .303" wing guns and the .75" motor-cannon.

(Top) A Foxhunter Mk.IA AK523 of No 5 Sqn SAAF flown by its CO, Major Andrew Duncan, DFC. This aircraft had some field modifications -- tailwheel locked down to ease maintenance and a .50" nose gun to simplify ammunition supply.

Foxhunter GL+R was shot down south of Acroma on 31 May 1942 by Oblt. Otto Schulz in a Bf 109F of II/JG27.

The Foxhunter Mk.V (F.157) represented a major redesign of the Ford fighter. An extra forward fuselage bay was inserted to accommodate a broader-chord laminar-flow wing. In the Foxhunter Mk.V, the extra fuselage length allowed use of the RAF's preferred 20mm Hispano gun firing through the propellor hub. The Foxhunter Mk.VI reverted to the more compact .75" motor-cannon which allowed for an additional small fuel tank.

(Bottom) A Foxhunter Mk.VI of No 237 (Rhodesia) Squadron upon arrival in Corsica in late October 1943. No 237 later took part in Operation Dragoon, the Allied invasion of southern France, where Free French Dewoitine D.520s were encountered.

[Fin]
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin April 11, 2014, 08:15:46 AM
Sweet!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Volkodav April 11, 2014, 09:36:51 AM
Very pretty (in a good way)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe April 11, 2014, 12:28:44 PM
Beautiful result, once again :-* :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: lauhof52 April 11, 2014, 06:52:49 PM
Beautiful!! :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Silver Fox April 12, 2014, 06:58:39 AM
WOW! The Foxhunter is just stunning!

Great work as always.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia April 23, 2014, 07:37:05 AM
Thanks folks. Something a bit more modern this time ... extending the E-9 family for TF-ODIN-E.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe April 23, 2014, 09:06:14 AM
A DHC-8 full of electronics? That could be a great entry in the group build "The Snoops, Sensors, Spooks, & Spies etc GB"
http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?board=52.0 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?board=52.0)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Logan Hartke April 23, 2014, 12:37:42 PM
^^ What he said.  By the way, I love the Dewoitines.  So pretty.

Cheers,

Logan
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: arc3371 April 25, 2014, 06:57:54 PM
The Foxhunters look great
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Volkodav April 26, 2014, 01:27:05 AM
I keep imagining the 530 with a RR Kestrel or Peregrine.  And this being me there has to be an Australian link somewhere.  Maybe Australian production set up to supply French Indochina forces in attempt to fend off the Japanese?  Kestrel selected as it had been in production in Australia for locally produced Hawker Furies and Demons, switching to the Peregrine as when the RAAF selected the Whirlwind.  Of course with the fall of France the Dewoitines ended up in RAAF service and defending Singapore and Malaya.

Sorry for the thread highjack  :-[
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: upnorth April 26, 2014, 05:41:22 PM
A DHC-8 full of electronics? That could be a great entry in the group build "The Snoops, Sensors, Spooks, & Spies etc GB"
[url]http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?board=52.0[/url] ([url]http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?board=52.0[/url])


Boeing tried to make that happen when they still owned DeHavilland Canada.

It was a maritime patrol aircraft called the Triton and it was based on the "Gonzo" navigation trainer version of the Dash 8. Boeing couldn't get the Canadian Forces interested in it and the project was cancelled.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin April 27, 2014, 03:21:12 AM
That would be this one:

Boeing realized  that this 'Gonzo' layout could be readily adapted to the maritime patrol role. Adding bubble windows for observers and fuselage side armaments racks. Boeing dubbed the 1986 maritime patrol Dash 8 derivative the Triton. For ASW, Triton was to have 4 underwing pylons and  2 fuselage hardpoints (for Harpoon or Exocet missiles ). A MAD tail 'stinger' was to be installed along with the usual maritime search radar and other sensors.

Fully equipped, the Triton's endurance was to be more than 11 hours.  Boeing offered their Triton as a general maritime patrol aircraft  based on a short-bodied DHC-8-200 airframe and a stretched-fuselaged Dash 8M-300 ASW Triton. In the absence of Canadian Forces interest in this proposed series, it is small wonder that no export orders for Triton were forthcoming. Boeing dropped the Triton concept and, shortly afterwards, sold off  De Havilland Canada.

Boeing of  Canada Ltd.'s interest in its de Havilland Division only lasted a half decade. In 1992, Boeing finally found a buyer for DHC – Bombardier Aerospace of  Dorval, PQ – which continued Dash 8 production as their Q Series.  Bombardier has made a few token efforts at promoting the Q Series airframe for maritime patrol.  But it has been the systems integration specialists that have actually delivered in that area. In the US, Sierra Research produced the E-9A Widget adaptation for the USAF. Most of the Dash 8/Q Series adaptations for maritime patrol (or surveillance) have been for Coast Guards and other non-military users. So, Boeing of  Canada was on the right track. They had just pitched to the wrong customers.


Source (http://www.casr.ca/ai-dash8-q100-special-mission-military.htm)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia April 28, 2014, 10:57:13 AM
That's the one   ;D

Tophe has prompted an entry into the "The Snoops, Sensors, Spooks, & Spies etc GB". This time, the electro-Dash 8s are in Australia (including a pair of 'Gonzo'-link entries  ;)

One is up now: http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=4345.0 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=4345.0)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia April 29, 2014, 07:42:29 AM
Next installment in the RAAF Project Wairi story ...
http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=4345.msg70157#msg70157 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=4345.msg70157#msg70157)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Vuk April 29, 2014, 03:23:49 PM
Ok, A!

Now it's time for You to admit that somewhere, out there, You're secretly running some undercover aircraft industry  :)

And if GTX once again says that this is classified info, I know he's plotting with You  ;D
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin April 29, 2014, 04:05:10 PM
No comment...
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: jcf April 30, 2014, 03:57:13 AM
Sorry Vuk,
there is no aviation industry on the Sunshine Coast of B.C., it's all aging hippies and
yuppie vacation lodges. The only smells are fish, fir trees and cannabis.
Repeat there is nothing to see or find. Don't bother looking, as there's nothing to
see. Remember there is nothing to see.
Now assume the lotus position and repeat 'nothing to see, nothing to see ...'




: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Vuk April 30, 2014, 02:52:18 PM
 :icon_meditation:

... nothing to see... nothing to see... (like this?)... nothing to see... nothing to see...
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia May 01, 2014, 04:01:40 AM
Yes, repeat the mantra ... Om!

As Jon siad, nuthin' here but aging yuppies and fading hippies. So don't even think of looking in those 'abandoned' boatsheds!

And besides, the local runway is only 2,400 feet long.

BTW: Ignore this -->  http://www.tigerfishaviation.net/dash8-floats-deployed-3.jpg (http://www.tigerfishaviation.net/dash8-floats-deployed-3.jpg)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Vuk May 01, 2014, 02:56:47 PM
2400? Probably some mini golf yard...

Ignore what?
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia May 03, 2014, 05:53:48 AM
Ignore what?

Exactly  ;)   Anyway, what possible use could hippies and aged yuppies have for a Dash 8 on floats anyway?
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: arc3371 May 03, 2014, 06:39:28 AM
Ignore what?

Exactly  ;)   Anyway, what possible use could hippies and aged yuppies have for a Dash 8 on floats anyway?

Bring in ecological fruit juice?  ;D
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Weaver May 03, 2014, 09:59:11 AM
I love the Alison-engined D.522s: very modelable!  :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Volkodav May 03, 2014, 10:50:52 AM
I love the Alison-engined D.522s: very modelable!  :)
Yes agree I though I had today today when at my local toy / model shop and saw a Tamiya Dewoitine on the same shelf as a raft 1/48 Alison Mustangs and P-40s
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia May 04, 2014, 09:19:45 AM
Next installment for the "The Snoops, Sensors, Spooks, & Spies etc GB" ...

http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=4345.msg70449#msg70449 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=4345.msg70449#msg70449)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia May 22, 2014, 02:07:48 AM
First installment for 'Super Boomer' - The Commonwealth Aircraft CA-14 Wallaby

http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=4422.msg71550#msg71550 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=4422.msg71550#msg71550)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Old Wombat May 22, 2014, 02:15:45 PM
(Copy-&-paste from above-linked thread.)

Love the look of the CA-14 Wallaby, the Boomerang canopy & tail suits it well. 8)

This must have been before CAC developed the CA-14 turbo-supercharged Boomerang variant (for some reason CAC numbered each "block" of Boomerangs differently; CA-12, CA-13, CA-14(A) & CA-19).

In my mind I can see a CAS variant with inverted gull wings, 4 x 20mm cannon & rockets/bombs, too. CA-16 Thunderbird (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dromornithidae)?

Edit: Sorry, CA-15/Fw .... The title & in-article references are somewhat confusing. :-\
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia May 29, 2014, 10:55:13 AM
Next installment of the 'Super Boomer' - CAC CA-14 Wallaby story ...

http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=4422.msg71860#msg71860 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=4422.msg71860#msg71860)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Old Wombat May 29, 2014, 11:13:18 AM
Damn! The more I see of this plane the more I love it! :-*

(Especially love the Mk.V)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Vuk May 29, 2014, 02:22:28 PM
I didn't see anything...

... but it's great as always!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: lauhof52 May 29, 2014, 07:35:19 PM
Looking really good! :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia May 31, 2014, 08:21:40 AM
For Old Wombat: A nautical CAC CA-14A 'blank' (somehow Sea Wallaby just sounds wrong!)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Logan Hartke May 31, 2014, 10:09:44 AM
Looks very nice.  The BMW is still a dead giveaway for its German heritage, though. Why don't you do an Aussie naval one with no spinner? Maybe a Bearcat or Hellcat-style prop?

Also, how many VBs did the ground crewman consume before painting that Aussie roundel on the underside of the wing? It's looking a bit fuzzy.  :icon_beer:   ;D

Cheers,

Logan
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Old Wombat May 31, 2014, 11:51:09 AM
Thanks, dude! :-*

Also, how many VBs did the ground crewman consume before painting that Aussie roundel on the underside of the wing? It's looking a bit fuzzy.  :icon_beer:   ;D

Cheers,

Logan

2 cans per man per day - that man appears to have been the tech who painted that roundel. ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin June 01, 2014, 02:58:58 AM
For Old Wombat: A nautical CAC CA-14A 'blank' (somehow Sea Wallaby just sounds wrong!)

But it looks so right... ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia June 01, 2014, 10:31:41 AM
Struth! The drongo who painted the underwing roundels has been re-assigned (he's now applying a different sort of brush to the dunnies at CAC's off-site facility at the Essendon Aerodrome).

Logan: The spinner and cooling fan kind of go together. Also, I wanted to retain the 'Hunnish' look for the R-2000 cowling. Other than slightly reducing the diameter, CAC was doing a complete copy job.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Volkodav June 01, 2014, 01:12:43 PM
Australia was very good at doing complete copy jobs during WWII, buildings reproduced from UK sourced plans were built including snow chutes and other northern hemisphere features by people who were probably clueless to what they were.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia June 08, 2014, 12:17:57 PM
Next installment of the 'Super Boomer' - CAC CA-14 Wallaby story ...

http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=4422.msg72706#msg72706 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=4422.msg72706#msg72706)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: lauhof52 June 08, 2014, 04:40:35 PM
Stunning!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Silver Fox June 11, 2014, 10:55:44 PM
It has a Focke-American/North-Wulf kind of look to it. :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia June 12, 2014, 11:31:23 AM
Thanks folks!  Here's another stab at the 'Sea Wallaby', now in a late British Pacific Fleet scheme as recommended by Old Wombat.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: buzzbomb June 12, 2014, 11:45:17 AM
The Temperate Navy scheme is terrific.

There is just nothing that this Aircraft looks wrong in.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Cliffy B June 12, 2014, 11:52:45 AM
I think we need to see in USN tri-color before we make that statement.  You know, just to be sure  ;)

LOVE this plane man!  Keep 'em coming  8)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Logan Hartke June 12, 2014, 12:39:36 PM
Yeah, that latest BPF one is lovely.  Well done.

Cheers,

Logan
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Old Wombat June 12, 2014, 12:46:23 PM
Thanks folks!  Here's another stab at the 'Sea Wallaby', now in a late British Pacific Fleet scheme as recommended by Old Wombat.

I'm seriously in love! :-*

Now I'm going to have to build this baby - & I'm probably going to break my own 1/72nd-scale-only kitbash rule & do her in 1/48th! :o

Thanks, apophenia! :)

 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Volkodav June 13, 2014, 10:07:52 PM
Thanks folks!  Here's another stab at the 'Sea Wallaby', now in a late British Pacific Fleet scheme as recommended by Old Wombat.

Very nice, my favourite so far.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia June 17, 2014, 08:54:49 AM
Okay ... really, truely the last of the Wallaby fighters  ;)

http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=4422.msg73288#msg73288 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=4422.msg73288#msg73288)

(BTW, I've also posted an RAN Buffalo on the 'Super Boomer' thread.)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Logan Hartke June 17, 2014, 10:58:07 AM
That looks lovely! I really like it. That dark blue really suits it.

Cheers,

Logan
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: lauhof52 June 17, 2014, 02:09:59 PM
Very nice one indeed!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe June 18, 2014, 12:11:03 AM
Next installment of the 'Super Boomer' - CAC CA-14 Wallaby story ...
Belated congratulations for the bubble CA-14, so nice! :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia July 13, 2014, 04:47:31 AM
First installments in the Hawker Monsoon Story

http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=4576.0 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=4576.0)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe July 13, 2014, 10:05:00 AM
Wonderful! Thanks! :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: lauhof52 July 13, 2014, 02:43:38 PM
Very good! :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: buzzbomb July 15, 2014, 02:08:43 PM
Nice...very nice.

Some well thought out designs... and some very British "not so much" design.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia July 16, 2014, 09:08:03 AM
Thanks folks! Next installment: http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=4576.msg74785#msg74785 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=4576.msg74785#msg74785)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Vuk July 16, 2014, 02:26:51 PM
In a lack of proper term, I'm impressed!  :)

The Yugo Monsoon is extraordinary and the details are amazing! I'm curious: where did You found the name Biljana?  ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: lauhof52 July 16, 2014, 03:44:38 PM
Well done! TOP! :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia July 17, 2014, 12:45:44 PM
Thanks folks!

Vuk: I was searching around for a Serbian name that would look unfamiliar to Anglo eyes. Then, I stumbled across Biljana Srbljanović and found the name I'd wanted. Probably not the Biljana you'd guessed, right?  ;D
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Vuk July 17, 2014, 08:00:56 PM
 :)

The truth is that in my life never was the girl named Biljana. I thought maybe it was in yours...
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia July 22, 2014, 10:46:05 AM
Latest in the Hawker Monsoon story -- http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=4576.msg75108#msg75108 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=4576.msg75108#msg75108)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe July 22, 2014, 01:45:35 PM
Thanks for these pleasant new profiles! :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia July 24, 2014, 06:01:54 AM
Thanks Tophe! Here's the next two Monsoons ... http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=4576.msg75222#msg75222 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=4576.msg75222#msg75222)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia July 26, 2014, 04:44:56 AM
Final installment of The Hawker Monsoon Story --  http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=4576.msg75316#msg75316 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=4576.msg75316#msg75316)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: lauhof52 July 26, 2014, 02:55:54 PM
Nice work! :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia August 15, 2014, 07:11:12 AM
Another 'almost-was'. Having illustrated the unbuilt Tempest Mk.III, I decided to do another unbuilt Hawker fighter design from Tony Buttler's book, British Secret Projects 3: Fighters and Bombers 1935-1950. http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=4576.msg76021#msg76021 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=4576.msg76021#msg76021)

The Hawker P.1027 was Hawker's first stab at a fighter powered by Rolls-Royce's new 42H engine (later dubbed the Eagle). In effect, the Sept 1943 design was a revised Tempest and that fighter's 42-foot span wing was used unchanged. However, I have assumed that the 39-ft 9-inch fuselage more closely resembled that of a Fury (albeit, being somewhat lengthened).

Although the appearance of the later Eagle-powered P.1030 is reasonably well-known, AFAIK, there are no surviving drawings of the P.1027. However, it is described as having a Mustang-like radiator bath and slightly smaller overall dimensions than the P.1030 which eclipsed it.

In the end, neither the P.1027 nor the larger P.1030 (with its leading-edge raditors) was built. Buttler also mentions an  even smaller Eagle-powered design -- the P.1032, a direct Fury derivative, Now that is a little harder to envision!

[Top] A hypothetical P.1027 prototype with its Rolls-Royce 46H Eagle powerplant exposed.

[Bottom] A whif production P.1027, the Hawker Cyclone F.1. This aircraft is shown in the markings of No.600 (City of London) Squadron, RAuxAF. It is assumed that No.600 replaced the Spitfire F.14e with the Hawker fighter (instead of the RW Spitfire F.21s and then F.22s).
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Old Wombat August 15, 2014, 01:29:47 PM
Now, that's one sleek little aeroplane! :D

Kinda reminds me of the CAC CA-15 (only not as squared off at the tips). ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe August 15, 2014, 11:11:03 PM
 :-* Wonderful! No more need to invent jets!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Volkodav August 16, 2014, 01:14:08 AM
I wonder if Hawker Australia would have built them for the RAAF before switching production to the Hawk and Seahawk for the RAAF and  RAN FAA respectively  ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Jeffry Fontaine August 16, 2014, 01:51:25 AM
Now, that's one sleek little aeroplane! :D

Kinda reminds me of the CAC CA-15 (only not as squared off at the tips). ;)
Exactly what I was thinking when I saw that image.  Definitely a rather large and impressive brute of an aircraft.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia August 17, 2014, 05:26:09 AM
Hmmm, a CA-15 Kangaroo development with an Oz-built Rolls-Royce Eagle might be interesting ...
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia August 21, 2014, 10:33:25 AM
Evan mentioned the idea of a cleaned-up Żubr - http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=2060.msg76304#msg76304 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=2060.msg76304#msg76304)

I've had a go at lowering the wing of the LWS-6. Of course, it'd take a lot more than that to make the Żubr into any kind of looker!

With apologies to Zygmunt Szeremeta  ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe August 22, 2014, 01:41:22 AM
interesting! (in fact I had to ask Google what the "real" Zubr was looking like, to compare)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin August 22, 2014, 02:43:40 AM
sigh…all these sexy ugly aircraft such as the LWS-6 Żubr and the somewhat similar

Amiot 143:

(http://oldmodelkits.com/jpegs/Heller%20Am143.JPG)

and Potez 540:

(http://www.oldmodelkits.com/jpegs/Heller%2072%20Potez%20540.JPG)

If only they were in 1/48 form…. ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Silver Fox August 22, 2014, 04:39:20 AM
The Amiot does have the benefit of spats. :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia September 10, 2014, 10:09:48 AM
Pax 1940 - for the Anything but Military GB

Avro Type 684C Avalon airliners
http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=4722.msg77072#msg77072 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=4722.msg77072#msg77072)

Avro Type 686, Type 687, and Type 692 airliners
http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=4722.msg77073#msg77073 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=4722.msg77073#msg77073)

Rootes Group Type 149C Rapier and Type 149T Rocket feederliners
http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=4722.msg77213#msg77213 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=4722.msg77213#msg77213)

-------------------------------------------
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia October 16, 2014, 11:18:45 AM
One that wouldn't fit into the Anything but Military GB ...
_____________________________________________

When KLM traded-in its early-model Fokker F.40A airliners, these aircraft were issued to the Luchtvaartafdeling (LVA). After re-painting, fitting of military equipment, and the installation of a navigator's station behind the cockpit, the F.40As were issued to 10 transportvliegtuigafdeling, the LVA's newly-established transport squadron.

In service, these aircraft were designated F.40A-Mv (or Militaire versie van de F.40A). But one F.40A-Mv, registered as X-14, was loaned back to Fokker to act as an armaments testbed. This aircraft was fitted with a fixed 7.9 mm FN Browning machine gun in the nose cone (fired by the co-pilot) and a T-V style dorsal gun position complete with sliding cover and hinged head shield. The dorsal gunner also remotely operated a third Browning, wobble-mounted in the tailcone.

After trials, the LVA decided not to arm the F.40A-Mv fleet. X-14 retained its gun positions but was returned to 10 TransVA, 3 LvR, at Eindhoven.
___________________________
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin October 16, 2014, 02:43:39 PM
 :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: lauhof52 October 16, 2014, 02:45:33 PM
Very nice one! :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Logan Hartke October 16, 2014, 08:41:11 PM
That's really fantastic, apophenia.

Cheers,

Logan
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Vuk October 18, 2014, 12:18:47 AM
Another nice one.
Just one question: are those tail markings on your Fokker also whiff?
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe October 18, 2014, 12:40:46 AM
Nice silhouette!
Google does not know this Fokker F.40 at all, it seems, does it come completely from your imagination? (that would be even better...) ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin October 18, 2014, 03:24:16 AM
Nice silhouette!
Google does not know this Fokker F.40 at all, it seems, does it come completely from your imagination? (that would be even better...) ;)


I think you will find that it is based upon the real world Fokker T.V:

(http://img.wp.scn.ru/camms/ar/196/pics/144_3.jpg)

Which people can get both 1/72 and 1/48 kits of which should they wish to replicate this creation in plastic.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia October 18, 2014, 09:51:12 AM
Thanks folks!

Just one question: are those tail markings on your Fokker also whiff?

Well spotted Vuk! Not an intentional whiff, I just put on the Dutch flag upside down  :-[
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia October 18, 2014, 09:54:43 AM
Pax 1940 - Italian and Romanian Savoia Marchetti derivatives

The Savoia Marchetti SM.79CM was perhaps the most straightforward of the bomber-to-airliner conversions. Based on the SM.79-I bomber, the SM.79CM followed the pattern of the earlier SM.79CS and SM.79T airliner versions.

The SM.79CM serie 1 was a production line modification of the SM.79-I bomber. Serie 2 aircraft had 800 hp Alfa Romeo 126 RC.10 engines. The Serie 3 introduced the 960 hp Alfa 128 RC.18 along with revised cabin windows.

(Top) Savoia Marchetti SM.79CM serie 3 in Ala Littoria's 1941 livery (like many airlines, Ala Littoria adopted a silver-grey finish in an attempt to match the nouvelle vogue of all-metal airliners). Behind the main ALI titles is the air mail slogan "Per via Aerea via Ala Littoria".

The SM.79CM was popular in ALI service, being more economical than the larger SM.84C and Fiat G.12CA trimotors and more reliable than the twin-engined Fiat G.18V

IAR.82 - The Italian 'Sparrowhawk' becomes a Romanian 'Stork'

In May 1937, Romania ordered 24 twin-engined SM.79B bombers powered by two Romanian-built Gnome-Rhône K14 radial engines. It was also intended that IAR would produce an improved Savoia-Marchetti bomber at Brașov. Those plans were scaled back and Ing. Elie Carafoli turned his attention to a civil derivative instead.

The resulting IAR.82 was a rather more ambitious design than the SM.79CM. The fuselage structure was totally re-designed. The passenger cabin was formed as a wooden box. The rest of the fuselage was of welded steel tubing -- the cockpit section clad in dural sheeting and the rear fuselage covered in fabric. The vertical tail of the planned IAR bomber was also adopted.

Marketed as the Brașov Barza (Stork), the IAR.82 was offered  to the Romanian airline, Liniile Aeriene Române Exploatate de Stat. LARES prefered the Lockheed 14 but this option was refused by the government in Bucharest.

LARES received the prototype Barza, YR-PAF, in the Spring of 1941. During LARES trials, the aircraft suffered a minor engine fire. The prototype was safely put down at Constanța but LARES had found its excuse to dump the Barza. The sole IAR.82 was transferred to FARR to support their SM.79B bombers. LARES eventually adopted the IAR 14K-powered PZL.44R Wicher.

____________________________________________
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Vuk October 18, 2014, 05:23:00 PM

Well spotted Vuk! Not an intentional whiff, I just put on the Dutch flag upside down  :-[

Well, intentional or not, it's still a whiff  :)

By the way, it was not hard to spot it, since the reversed Dutch flag looks like Yugoslav. I will be embarrassed if I didn't see it...  ;)

Forgot to tell that I really like Savoias.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin October 19, 2014, 01:55:58 AM
I love the Savoia Marchetti derivatives. :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia November 03, 2014, 11:36:49 AM
This ones for Vuk.

The story of early Yugoslav Blenheims is fairly well-known.* Bristol provided Blenheim Mk.I pattern aircraft and compenents for assembling at the Ikarus AD plant at Zemun/Belgrade. The resulting aircraft were designated Icarus B.1 by the Royal Yugoslav Air Force. Ikarus AD applied its own, internal designations and had begun to give evocative names to its designs. For the B.1, the name Bura was applied (after a strong Adriatic wind, to match Ikarus' Orkan).

The Blenheim Mk.Is were known to Ikarus AD as the B.1B - the suffix referring to the engine maker, Bristol. Unbuilt Ikarus B.1 projects also received designations, as follows:

 - B.1P: PZL-built Bristol Mercury VIII, 840 hp
 - B.1N: Nohab (SFA) Mercury XXIV, 980 hp**

Ikarus was not able to glean stocks of Mercury engines from any source. Of necessity, plans turned to substitute engine types. As new member of the Axis 'Pact of Steel', the Kingdom of Yugoslavia (Kraljevina Jugoslavija) could now choose more freely among Italian and German engines.

Two B.I airframes were set aside for re-engining. One, br.3556, was to test alternative single-row radials at the B.2. The second, br.3547, was to be converted to test twin-row radial substitute engines.

_______

* Less well-known is the Icarus B.4, a single conversion to a Blenheim Mk.IV-style nose. Some 20 B.4s were ordered from Ikarus but not completed (having been overtaken by events). The sole B.4 (br.3535) was converted to photo-recce B.4f standards and transferred first to the Regia Aeronautica and then to the Luftwaffe.

** In 1941, Nohab Flygmotorfabriker AB became SFA (Svenska Flygmotor Aktiebolaget)

___________________________________
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia November 03, 2014, 11:39:02 AM
Yugoslav Blenheim Developments - the Bura Radial Engine Testbeds

The Icarus B.2 was a relatively straightforward conversion performed at Zemun using the B.1 YU-BAN (L6831/3556). The resulting B.2R fitted twin 780 hp Alfa Romeo 126 RC.34 engines in place of the Blenheim's Mercury radials. The lower-powered Alfas were not an ideal choice but were readily available.* However, the conversion had to potential to free up dwindling Yugoslav stocks of Mercury radials for the in-service B.1 bombers.

Other B.2 single-row radial engine testbeds were planned but not completed. These were:

 - B.2B: Bramo 323 Fafnir 323P-1, 940 PS
 - B.2H: BMW 132K ('Hornet'), 960 PS
 - B.2W: Wright R-1820-G205A, 1,200 hp *

The B-2R was not the first Bura engine testbed. With Ikarus overwhelmed with work, the B.3P conversion was performed by Piaggio in Italy. The B.1, YU-BAE (L6823/br.3547), was flown to Malpensa (Milan) where Piaggio fitted twin 986 hp P.XI RC 40 radials in cowlings provided by Officine Meccaniche Reggiane SpA.

As with the B.2, other twin-row radials were considered. These were:

 - B.3K: DFA Kraljevo-built GR 14K, 850 hp
 - B.3F (I): Fiat A.80 RC.41 18-cyliner, 1,000 hp
 - B.3F (II): Fiat A.74 RC.38 14-cylinder, 870 hp

_______

* This was the result of VVKJ SM.79P bombers being re-fitted with more powerful PZL-built Pegasus engines in their noses. The now-surplus Alfa Romeo 126s went to the Bura program.

Forgot to mention: The sideviews are based on a  Yugoslav Bleheim by Ognjan M. Petrovic:  http://leadenskybooks.com/?contents (http://leadenskybooks.com/?contents)
___________________________________
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Vuk November 03, 2014, 04:12:40 PM
This ones for Vuk...

Sir... I'm honored! Qapla'!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia November 04, 2014, 10:56:38 AM
Cheers Vuk! Here's some more ...

Yugoslav Blenheim Developments - Future Plans and Bura Production

The ultimate plan for the Yugoslav Blenheim was an aerodynamic 'clean up' to suit the aircraft to both the light bomber and the attack role. To that end, Ikarus AD engineers S. Momcilovic and D. Radojkovic were assigned the task of adapting the drag-reducing nose and single-seat cockpit section from their private-venture Orkan (Hurricane) design to the Blenheim fuselage.

The result was to be the Bura B.5. The design had a noticeable 'step' in the underside of its forward fuselage. This was to accommodate a heavier forward-firing armament for the anticipated attack role. Initially, it was thought that this armament would consist of a pair of Hispano-Suiza HS-404 cannons - one installation replacing each forward bomb bay.

When supplies of the French guns dried up, Momcilovic and Radojkovic turned first to the German Oerlikon MG FF and then to Italian 12,7 mm heavy machine guns. It was assumed that the B.5 would be powered by Piaggio P.XI radials as on the P.3P testbed but this was not to be.

The proposed B.5 was eclipsed by a simpler productionized form of the B.3P. The B.6 was a refined B.3P with equipment substituted to better suit the Kingdom of Yugoslavia's role as a member of the Axis alliance. Having made clear that Yugoslavia would take no part in any attack on fellow Slavs in the Soviet Union, Belgrade found itself given a lower priority for German exports. as a result, the B.6 series relied heavily upon Italian suppliers.

Other than the Piaggio engines, notable changes from the B.1 series included the substitution of the main undercarriage members from the Fiat CR.25, the replacement of the Bristol B.I dorsal turret with a manually-operated Caproni-Lanciani Delta (armed with a 7,9 mm Scotti-I.F. M1932/jugoslavo), and the use of Regia Aeronautica radio equipment.

Bottom: A freshly-delivered Ikarus B.6/I light bomber due for the 62nd Bomber Group.

__________________________________________________
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Vuk November 05, 2014, 05:02:52 PM
My first thought on B.5 was - heavy/night fighter...
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe November 05, 2014, 07:59:51 PM
 :-* The Bura B.5 is just lovely... :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia November 14, 2014, 10:05:34 AM
Yugoslav Blenheim Developments - Export Bura Variants

The Alfa-engined B.7 actually predated the VVJK's Bura B.6. The B.7s were final production Bura B.1s fitted with 780 hp Alfa Romeo 126 RC.34 engines inherited from SM.79P bombers. The Alfas were available but the VVJK knew from the B-2R engine testbed that the B.7 would  be underpowered. As a result, it was decided to complete all Alfa powered Buras as dual-control B.7 Treners (or B.7/Ts).

A surprise request came from the Regia Aeronautica. Since the Italians were already flying Bura B.1f photo-reconnaissance aircraft (in mock RAF markings), it was decided that a pilot conversion trainer was also needed. The B.7/T -- or B.7 D.C. for Doppio Comando -- filled this role without additional wear on the more valuable Bristol Mercury radials.

Top: A B.7 D.C. assigned to the 2ş Gruppo aviazione Presidio Coloniale, Aviazione della Cirenaica. Italian B.7s were fitted with sliding gun hatches for self-defence. It seems that this modest arrangement was inadequate --  on its delivery flight to Libya, this aircraft was shot down by intercepting RAF Beaufighters out of Malta.

The more streamlined B.5 nose was first introduced to the production line with the Bura B.8 series. Export interest in this variant came from the Romanian FARR. While the VVJK's B.8s retained the Piaggio P.XIs of the B.6, the export B.8Ru (Rumunjski) was fitted with IAR 14K  radials. These aircraft were assembled by IAR at Brașov from kits supplied by Ikarus AD.

Bottom: A third series B.8Ru/III (or IAR B.8C) of the FARR's Escadrila 1 recunoastere. These aircraft were armed with single 7,9 mm Scotti or FN guns in the Lanciana Delta dorsal turret and twin, forward-firing 13.2mm FN machine guns under the cockpit.

BTW: The B.8Ru was based on a FARR Blenheim Mk.I profile by Bogdan Pătraşcu.

_____________________
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe November 14, 2014, 03:29:55 PM
Impressive family!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin November 15, 2014, 03:20:29 AM
Those last two look great! :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia November 24, 2014, 06:34:04 AM
Yugoslav Blenheim Developments - Replacement Concept and 'Bura V-12'

Several attempts were made to develop the MR-1 Orkan design to fill roles unsuited to the Bura. One such was an Orkan-based hybird using Bura wings, the MR-4 Oluja (Tempest).

Top: MR-4 Oluja concept in its Piaggio P.XI-powered form.

The object of the MR-4 Oluja design was to produce a capable torpedo bomber. The scheme appears to have been workable but the VVKJ elected to procure more SM.79Ps from Italy to fill this role.

A constant challenge for Ikarus designers was finding higher-powered engines for the Bura. Having been constantly thwarted in their attempts to procure DB601s, Ikarus turned to Soviet Klimov M-105A V-12s from captured by the Germans and then offered for sale.*

The Bura B.10 was an inline engine testbed modification of the radial-engined Bura B.8. The Bura B.10S (Sovjetski) with Klimov M-105As was the first flown. The modification was a complete success and a small production series was prepared. However, before any production B.11S was completed, VVKJ planners redirected all available Klimov engines to fighter re-engining programs.

Bottom: Bura B.10S testbed. Note the mix of markings. Underwing roundels are the original Axis VVKJ design. Added fuselage roundels are of the later, simplified design. Note that both those fuselage roundels and nacelle recognition markings are in the later pale grey (rather than pure white). The dorsal turret was later removed.

_________________

* Those M-105A engines intended for the Bura B.11 lacked gun syncronization. Klimov engines with syncronization were allocated to Rogožarski for use in fighters.
_________________
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia November 24, 2014, 06:36:34 AM
Yugoslav Blenheim Developments - A Southern Wind and Fiat Power

Development of the Bura B.10S was cut short when the VVKJ demanded the return of its Klimov M-105A engines. Tests had shown improved climb and top speed performance but found the aircraft somewhat lacking in directional control. Twin tailplanes were designed but not fitted before the V-12 engines were removed.

A potential solution to the B.10 prototype's engine problem arose from the demise of another Ikarus project -- the MR-2 Jugo (Sirocco or 'South' wind), a low-winged Orkan derivative. With the MR-2 shelved, its Fiat A.74 radials were available. At 870 hp, the Italian engines lacked the Klimov's power but the Fiats' smaller diameter better suited them to re-engining the B.10S than any other available powerplants.

Top: Ikarus MR-2 Jugo concept as a light bomber. Note smaller Orkan-style fins (compared with MR-4 Oluja concept, above).

Accordingly, the B.10S was fitted with both Fiat A.74 RC.38 engines and the twin tails intended for higher-powered Bura derivatives. Both were a complete success and Ikarus proposed fitting Fiat radials to the engineless B.11S airframes nearing completion on their production lines. It was envisioned that the resulting B.11Fs would suit the VVKJ as dual control trainers for more powerful operational Bura variants.

Bottom: Bura B.10F (Fiat) testbed shown after the fitting of twin tails. Note that the Underwing roundels have been repainted in the simplified design. Oddly, nacelle recognition markings have reverted to pure white rather than the by-then appropriate pale grey. The Fiat-supplied cowlings are the same as those for the CR.42 fighter.

_________________
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe November 24, 2014, 03:00:00 PM
Elegant lines! :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Vuk November 24, 2014, 03:47:28 PM
A, You made my day!  :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia November 29, 2014, 11:39:10 AM
Thanks folks!

As mentioned, the VVJK decided to allocate all available 'war-booty' Klimov M-105 engines to fighter programs. Engines lacking gun synchonization went to Zmaj to re-engine Hawker Hurricanes with worn-out Merlins. The result was the 'Hariken-S'.

[Bottom] A newly refurbished 'Hariken-S' of 35. Grupa, 5. Lovacki Puk/3. Brigada, Leskovac (prior to dispatch to Thessaloniki, Greece). Note that White 7's markings are only partially applied - white paint has yet to be added to the fuselage roundel and the fighter's new, Luftwaffe-style individual aircraft number.

Synchronized Klimovs went to Rogožarski for IK-3/II re-engining and new-production IK-3/III Jastreb (Hawk) fighters. The later was readily distinguishable from early IK-3s by the upper cowling bulges for its synchronized 12,7 mm Breda-SAFAT guns (a third Breda fired through the hollow propeller shaft).

[Top] An IK-3/III Jastreb of 32. Grupa, 2. Lovacki Puk/1. Brigada at Krusevac. Fuselage mottling on 'Red 4' is more extensive than normal (with grey mottling extending into the recognition panels and even forms a 'Spiralschnauze' on the spinner!).
______________________

NB: Both of these sideviews began life as profiles by Srecko Bradic.

______________________
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Old Wombat November 29, 2014, 05:30:52 PM
Neat! :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: finsrin November 29, 2014, 05:50:17 PM
MR-4 Oluga and MR-2 Jugo  8)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin November 30, 2014, 03:11:53 AM
 :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 04, 2015, 05:49:13 AM
Yugoslav Blenheim Developments - Buras with Inline Engines

Ikarus finally got access to the DB601 engines that it needed to increase Bura performance. Italy was prepared to allocated a small percentage of its licensed Alfa Romeo RA.1000 RC.41 Monsone powerplants to Yugoslav production. Thus was born the Bura B.12 variant.

The Bura B.12 was to be a torpedo bomber (to replace VVKJ SM.79s in that role). To ensure torpedo clearance, a larger tailwheel was used. Experience demonstrated that the twin tails for the earlier B.11S development were inadequate and these were replaced by larger tails. Another visual change was to the turret. The manually-operated Lanciana Delta dorsal turret was replaced by the powered German EDL 131 Drehturm.

[Bottom] The Bura B.12 prototype flew well (once fitted with enlarged tailplanes) but, even fitted with the Italian-made DB.601 engines, the aircraft did not have sufficient power to perform adequately as a torpedo bomber. This prototype was converted to Bura B.14 standards.

Also mooted was a float-equipped Bura torpedo bomber, the B.12H (Hidroplan) for the Royal Yugoslav Naval Aviation, KJRM-RM (Kraljevska Jugoslavenska Ratna Mornarica - Pomorskom vazduhoplovstvu). Priority for Monsone engines was given to VVKJ aircraft and no B.12H was floatplane completed.

The B.12 was not the first Bura fitted with inverted V-12 engines. When the VVKJ showed no interest in a Fiat-powered B.11F, Rumania saw an opportunity. IAR was willing to take the semi-finished B.11S centre sections as part of its planned Bura improvement to be powered by twin Junker Jumo 211Da engines. IAR produced its hybrid type by combining those B.11S centre section with Rumanian-built B.8C fuselages, tailplanes, and outer wing panels.

Ikarus AD knew these hybrids as the B.11Ru (or B.11Ju) but the Rumanians refered to the new type at the IAR B.8M. The higher power of the Jumo 211s dictated the addition of a dorsal fin extension to maintain stability. All B.11Ru/B.8Ms featured these dorsal strakes (the first three airframes being retrofitted after entering FARR service).

[Top] B.11Ru (IAR B.8C) of the FARR's Escadrila 2 Recunoastere. Defensive armament for these aircraft consisted of a single 7.9 mm FN machine guns in the manually-operated Lanciana Delta dorsal turret and another pair of forward-firing 7.9 mm FN guns under the cockpit.

NB: B.11Ru derived from a FARR Blenheim Mk.I by Bogdan Patrascu.
___________________________________
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Silver Fox January 04, 2015, 06:38:04 AM
Pretty birds!

I really like the torpedo bomber, very sleek looking.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe January 05, 2015, 01:15:20 PM
Surprising silhouettes, thanks!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 09, 2015, 11:40:52 AM
Thanks folks!

Yugoslav Blenheim Developments - Last of Ikarus' Bura Line

The VVKJ ordered that Bura production focus on the new Alfa-engined B.14 light bomber and reconnaissance model. However, the next production model was a hybrid of B.8 and B.14 parts. The B.15 preceded the B.14 into service and differed only in detail.

[Top] The Bura B.15 retained the fixed tailwheel of the B.8 as well as its Italian turret. Although painted in the standard late-war VVKJ maritime reconnaisance scheme, this aircraft was provided to the German Luftwaffe for trials at Rechlin.

To confuse matters further, the first production B.14s were really B.15 airframes fitted with German EDL 131 turrets. The Bura B.14/II series were the first to introduce the B.12's retractable tailwheel (as well as German radio equipment). This B.14/II defected to occupied Italy and has been given partial RAF markings.

Although not obvious here, the B.14/II standardized on the German MG131 for defensive -- both in the hydraulically-powered EDL 131 turret and fixed, forward firing guns. Light bombers had twin forward-firing guns, maritime attack models featured four fixed guns.
_______________
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin January 10, 2015, 03:58:10 AM
Sleek!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 16, 2015, 07:03:31 AM
OT for the Buran story but here's a pair of unbuilt Yugoslav fighter projects ...

In the summer of 1942, Eng. Dusan Stankov found himself overseeing the re-assembly of former Luftwaffe Bf 109B for use as VVKJ fighter-trainers at the ZMAJ factory at Zemun. Ideal 'lead-in' trainers for Yugoslav Bf 109E-3a Orao (Eagle) fighters, the 'Bs were also available in some numbers. Alas, there was also a shortage of Jumo 210 spares. That prompted two Bf 109B re-engining proposals.

The first was a scheme to turn surplus Bf 109B airframes into operational aircraft, the Orao B OVP (Operativni Vazduhoplovni Projekt). This OVB involved the installation of more powerful engines and, for fighters,increasing the armament. The two components of the Orao B OVP were the proposed Bf 109/BP (Brzog Presretaca or Fast Interceptor) and the Bf 109/BI (Brzog Izvidnika or Fast Reconnaissance aircraft).

Both Orao B OZP variants required engine changes. Proposed Jumo 210 replacements were either Hispano-Suiza HS 12Ys bought from Vichy France or Soviet Klimov M-105 V-12s from German war booty' stocks. In the event, neither engine was available and attention turned to another Bf 109B conversion, the Projekt za Napredno Trenera (Advanced Trainer Project).

The Orao NP (Napredni Trener) was to be a straightforward Bf 109B conversion, The Jumo 210 powerplant and radiator was to be removed and replaced by an Italian air-cooled V-12 -- the 700 hp Isotta-Fraschini Delta RC.35. At 510 kg, the Italian engine was slightly heavier than the 440 kg Jumo 210 but the weight of the radiator and coolant was to make up the difference. In the event, the Projekt za Napredno Trenera was restricted to keeping existing Bf 109Bs airworthy and no re-engining took place.

Another, more dramatic, fighter transformation was also planned by Stankov. In this scheme, existing IK-2 parasol fighters were to be modernized by fitting Bf 109B wings and retractable main undercarriage legs. To prove the concept, one damaged IK-2 airframe was rebuilt with stiffener panels to accept the Messerschmitt components.

As envisioned, the concept was to rebuild surviving IK-2s into Messerschmitt-winged IK-2Ms. If successful, Ikarus would restart the IK-2 line to produce new-build IK-6 fighters with DB 601A or Klimove M-105 powerplants. Increasing access to ex-Luftwaffe Bf 109Es put paid to the notion of IK-2 modernizations.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Vuk January 16, 2015, 05:04:39 PM
Astonishing as always, A!  :)

I must mention next, although is not whiff: prior to WWII, Kingdom of Yugoslavia was manufacturing Hawker Hurricanes by license, but was short in engines. However, receiving Messerschmitt Bf 109E, Yugoslavia also received a number of spare engines. Consequently, on one of Hurricanes was installed a Daimler Benz DB.601A. The aircraft received designation LVT-1 (Lovac Vazduhoplovno Tehnički = Fighter Aeronautical Technical; also, the term ''zrakoplovni'' You used is a Croatian term, while in Kingdom of Yugoslavia Serbian term ''vazduhoplovni'' was much more in use). The term Technical supposed to meant that aircraft was to be used as a test example, but it held its 8 x 7,7mm guns, with addition of single 20mm cannon mounted in the engine axis. LVT-1 even saw an action. Five days prior to outbreak of war, it intercepted and forced German Messerschmitt Bf 110 which entered Yugoslav air space to land on April 1st, and on April 8th he attacked a Wehrmacht troops convoy, but without known result. Returning from that mission LVT-1 suffered engine failure and the pilot was forced to land and abandon the aircraft.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: dy031101 January 16, 2015, 11:57:56 PM
Um...... cool glazed-nose airplanes......  :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 22, 2015, 12:50:48 PM
Thanks guys. And thanks vuk for the correction and details. I knew about the Hurricane with a DB6012 but not the  LVT-1 designation. Cheers!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: arc3371 February 07, 2015, 01:58:06 AM
Very interesting designs
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: JP Vieira February 08, 2015, 05:12:00 PM
Very nice designs
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia February 27, 2015, 10:58:23 AM
Something silly. Bell's Model 429 goes on the attack ...
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin February 27, 2015, 11:21:23 AM
 :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Silver Fox February 27, 2015, 11:41:29 AM
Love them!

I notice the (much smaller) clamshell doors are still on the top one... Is that for passengers? :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: elmayerle February 27, 2015, 12:41:52 PM
I wonder how they'd react to those at work?  Those do look intriguing.  The aft clamshell doors for ro-ro (roll on - roll off) mission pallets?
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Silver Fox February 27, 2015, 09:21:47 PM
I wonder how they'd react to those at work?  Those do look intriguing.  The aft clamshell doors for ro-ro (roll on - roll off) mission pallets?

They might wonder how you knew about these already. :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia February 28, 2015, 12:56:27 PM
Thanks folks.

I notice the (much smaller) clamshell doors are still on the top one... Is that for passengers? :)

I was thinking more of carrying your own reloads when deploying to an FOL. Teensy bit cramped in there for passengers  ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Silver Fox February 28, 2015, 11:23:08 PM
I got to thinking that it might be really useful as a multi-purpose mission bay.

Possible uses, in addition to the transport of reloads to an FOL, would include:


Could be a unique capability.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: elmayerle March 01, 2015, 12:22:41 AM
I got to thinking that it might be really useful as a multi-purpose mission bay.

Possible uses, in addition to the transport of reloads to an FOL, would include:

  • Carriage/Deployment of unmanned systems: UGV,USV and UAV
  • Internal carriage of extended range fuel tankage, saving pylon space
  • Special electronics fit: Equipment needed for special missions such as ECM/EW, ELINT or systems required for advanced weapons. The sensors can then go on the pylons
  • CSAR crew recovery
  • Sensor deployment, including sonobouys or the various surface-movement detectors

Could be a unique capability.
As I said, ro-ro mission pallets.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia March 04, 2015, 05:49:16 AM
Not a whif, an almost-was  ;)  The proposed Vazar Turbine Husky conversion (and the base Fairchild Husky F-11-2 bushplane).
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe March 04, 2015, 01:23:48 PM
Nice ones!
You could participate to the current Floaty GB, yes!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: ericr March 04, 2015, 03:16:01 PM
indeed !  :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia March 14, 2015, 10:51:50 AM

Thanks folks!

Since the EC 645 T2 came up elsewhere ... an almost-is rather than a whif ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe March 14, 2015, 12:40:13 PM
I didn't know it but the version you mentionned leaded me to http://www.airbushelicopters.com/website/en/ref/H145M_47.html (http://www.airbushelicopters.com/website/en/ref/H145M_47.html) with Google's help. And your one seems a little different, lighter, no?
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Volkodav March 14, 2015, 08:17:46 PM

Thanks folks!

Since the EC 645 T2 came up elsewhere ... an almost-is rather than a whif ;)

Great job, that is a very nice looking helicopter and would probably look good in any markings, you got more versions planned?
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia March 15, 2015, 10:29:09 AM

Tophe: Thanks for the link. That H145M rebranding for the the EC645 T2 must be pretty recent. I think that my speculative version looks 'lighter' than the Airbus Helicopters demonstrator just because the  Luftwaffe type is shown without pylons.

Volkodav: Hmmm, hadn't really thought about that. Any suggestions for markings?
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe March 15, 2015, 12:12:16 PM
Maybe Roma Vatican Air Force (the new pope seems so popular, he needs defense against the crowd) ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia March 22, 2015, 06:07:54 AM
You could participate to the current Floaty GB, yes!


Thanks for the idea Tophe. I've paired up the Turbine Husky with another unbuilt floatplane project -- the Beaver Aircraft of Canada NG Super Otter.

http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=5306 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=5306)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia May 03, 2015, 05:54:41 AM

Something different.  I'd meant to get this ready for the Book/Movie/Game GB but ...  :P

________________________________

Comment on Kenneth Molson's great work, Canadian Aircraft Since 1909,* often bemoans its lack of Putnam-style 3-view drawings. But there is a greater omission - a single page on B.W. Bandy's Gander Experimental Mk.I amphibian.

Since the Gander prototype was built in the US, Molson intended to cover the Bandy aircraft in the Appendices. Somehow, the assigned page number (pg 524) was forgotten by the typesetter. Instead of being slotted in between the Avro Avian and the Grumman G-23 Goblin as planned, the Bandy Gander entry was left out all together.

Fortunately, the omitted galley page was rescued from the archives of Putnam's printer (that would be the blue recycling bin out the back). This is an irreplaceable and priceless piece of Canadian aviation history ... so, naturally, it will be open for bids on eBay next week  ;)

________________________________

* Canadian Aircraft Since 1909, KM Molson and HA Taylor, Canada's Wings, Stittsville, ON, 1982, ISBN 0920002110

: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia May 09, 2015, 09:30:26 AM

A portion of a blueprint showing the sideview of the Bandy Gander in its intial guise, powered by a 190 hp Renault 8Gd water-cooled V-8 engine. This cropped artwork presumeably originated with the Glenn L. Martin Company.

__________________________


The Bandy Papers are the 9-volume memoirs of Bartholomew Wolfe Bandy (ghosted by Donald Jack). The Bandy Gander amphibian features in two volumes:

Me Too (Volume V of The Bandy Papers)
ISBN 9780981024486
Published Dec 2010
E-book edition
ISBN 9780986497490
Published October 2012

This One's On Me (Volume VI of The Bandy Papers)
Paperback ISBN 9780973950557
E-book ISBN 9780981024462
400pp.
Pub. July 2008

_________________________
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe May 09, 2015, 01:15:29 PM
No windscreen and no frontal view? This is funny... (but Real project?) :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia May 10, 2015, 05:12:06 AM

Tophe: The image is a 'warmed over' Dornier Do B Merkur. Alas, the Bandy Gander was only a figment of Donald Jack's imagination.

The Merkur's frontal view would have been even worse! Replacing the BMW VI V-12 with the inline Puma could only have improved matters.

For the record, the entire Bandy Papers are now available as e-Books:

- Volume I of the Bandy Papers ---- Three Cheers For Me, 1962
- Volume II of the Bandy Papers --- That's Me in the Middle, 1973
- Volume III of the Bandy Papers -- It's Me Again, 1975
 -- Orig. published separately as It's Me Again and Me Among the Ruins
- Volume IV of the Bandy Papers --- Me Bandy, You Cissie, 1979
- Volume V of the Bandy Papers ---- Me Too, 1983
- Volume VI of the Bandy Papers --- This One's On Me, 1987
- Volume VII of the Bandy Papers -- Me So Far, 1989
- Volume VIII of the Bandy Papers - Hitler vs. Me, 1996
- Volume IX of the Bandy Papers --- Stalin vs. Me, 2005

http://www.sybertooth.com/bandy/ (http://www.sybertooth.com/bandy/)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia May 28, 2015, 05:24:38 AM
The Kosher Hustler - the B-58i Ariyyáhu, my entry into the Extended Service Life and/or Back dated GB:
http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=5433.0 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=5433.0)

For those interested, there is also the B-58A Hustler armed with the British Blue Steel missile:
http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=5345.msg90554#msg90554 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=5345.msg90554#msg90554)

: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe May 28, 2015, 11:41:54 AM
With this huge missile, the B-58 almost looks like a (vertical) twin-plane... ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Volkodav May 28, 2015, 01:09:40 PM
I just had a completely off the wall idea and couldn't think of anywhere better to put it, a carrier based strike bomber version of the Hustler, flying off a notional hyper carrier, developed in the 50's as an enlargement of the USS United States (assuming the class was built instead of cancelled).  What would be really fun is if this carrier was a joint project with the UK, say the US builds five or six and the UK three. 

Anyway, details of the carriers aside, the ships are built and they are specifically designed to embark supersonic medium bombers as large as the B-58.  Paint schemes would be easy, just how to do arrester hook, catapult strop or bar and how to modify the undercarriage into something believable and would the wings fold or not?  I just have a picture in my mind of a Hustler in a FAA Buccaneer scheme.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia May 30, 2015, 11:57:28 AM
Sea Boots for the Hustler

The General Dynamics Sea Hustler was a one-off bomber prototype for the US Navy. First flown in August 1958, the supersonic bomber was designated as YB3G-1.* The naval bomber differed from its USAF counterpart in having larger twin engines and naval equipment.

The YB3G-1 powerplants were GE YJ92s,** an enlarged development of the B-58A's J79 engines. The twin YJ92s generated 57,600 lb.s.t. in full afterburner (less than the four B-58A's J79s but sufficient for the lighter YB3G-1.

Despite a rigorous weight reduction program, it was obvious at an early stage that the General Dynamics bomber would be too big to operate in any numbers from even the largest of US Navy carriers. As a result, the program was eliminated.

The Sea Hustler stayed in US Navy service as a test airframe until damaged in Feb 1962. By then, the bomber category had been dropped and the Sea Hustler redesignated as YAG-1.

_________________________

* For some reason, the BuAer continued the old Great Lakes series of bomber designations.

** The YJ92 turbojet was related to the USAF's YB94 (for the XB-70 and XF-108). While the YB94 sprang from General Electric's Mach 3-capable X279, the Navy's J92 was to be the production version of the Mach 2 X275 engine.

_________________________
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Volkodav May 30, 2015, 11:43:50 PM
Sweet, another thought I had was a dedicated low altitude tactical attack version powered by non-afterburning Olympus or Conway that should be able to supercruise.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia July 07, 2015, 06:43:35 AM
One that missed the Extended Service GB ...
____________________________________________________

Belated Boomers -- the Export CAC CA-22 Boomerang IIs

The first export of Boomerang IIs came in early 1947 as part of Australian support for British rehabilitation of occupied Siam. Refurbished ex-RAAF Boomerang IIs, the CAC-22S served primarily as lead-in trainers for Spitfire fighters.

After wartime leader, Field Marshal Phibun, was restored as Prime Minister in 1948, the Chifley Government withdrew Australian military support for the now-renamed Thailand. With no access to spares, the CAC-22S fleet fell into disrepair and was out of RTAF service by 1951.

[Top] CA-22S (designated BKh.14 in Thai service) in typical RTAF finish. These aircraft retained their overall silver finish from RAAF service. The Thai flag formed a rudder stripe with an individual aircraft number on the fin. An RTAF pennant below the cockpit shows this to be a squadron leaders mount. Red spinner and wing tips were typical and, as a 1 Wing aircraft, '17' wears a red-outlined white stripe around its rear fuselage.

Another SE Asian recipient of ex-RAAF Boomerang IIs was South Vietnam. The Menzies Government began supplying training aid and equipment to Saigon in 1954, including Boomerang IIs rebuilt as CA-22Vs in 1955. These aircraft flew in the Army Co-operation role. To lay smoke target-markers, triple-tube M9 rocket launchers were carried on modified wingtips.

[Bottom] A late production CA-22 (revealed by its wing armament of four .5" Browning guns) in VNAF markings. Note that this aircraft features both the 'concentric circle' roundels it was delivered with (under wing) and the new 'stars-and-bars' marking (on the rear fuselage). The South Vietnamese flag is displayed on the vertical tail (as is the 1st FS flash, which is repeated on the cowling).
____________________
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: lauhof52 July 07, 2015, 02:08:20 PM
Nice work and story on the CA-22! :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe July 18, 2015, 07:00:08 AM
I also like the CA-22 of yours, as a radial Mustang egg-plane somehow! :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia July 23, 2015, 06:22:35 AM

The Fokker Ontwerp 203 or 'D.XL' was a special presentation aircraft designed specifically for Reichsmarschall Hermann Göring. The 'D.XL' was redesigned to suit the Reichsmarschall's physique - including a widened fuselage, specially reinforced pilot's seat, and extra hand-holds for entry and egress.

Other differences from the Great War Fokker D.VII fighter included the substitution of a modern, air-cooled Argus As 10 inverted V-8 engine. Pneumatic tires and wheel brakes were also added.

The finished 'D.XL' was presented to the Reichsmarschall at Schiphol in September 1940 but, alas, this aircraft never flew. As Göring familiarized himself with the 'D.XL' on taxiing trials, the main undercarriage struts collapsed. Insufficient hardening of the metal tubing was blamed although the Reichsmarschall's over-hardy luncheon likely put the 'D.XL' beyond structural tolerances.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Volkodav July 23, 2015, 10:11:30 AM
Love your work!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia August 10, 2015, 09:29:01 AM
This is a follow-on from the Westland Westmorland done for the Vertical Takeoff GB:
http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=5634.0 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=5634.0)

UH-34M Pensacola and CH-126B Huron -- Sikorsky's Westmorlands

By 1965, Westlands had finished with its WS.58N demonstrator. To avoid paying UK import taxes on this converted Sikorsky-made airframe was stripped of its engines and returned to the US. Sikorsky had already assessed the Westmorland and concluded that there was no US market for a Nimbus (or Turmo) powered helicopter.

Sikorsky had been working on upgrade concepts for US military S-58s, the UH-34 series, and the WS.58N airframe added another wrinkle to those proposals. Sikorsky concluded that the best solution was a 'remanufacturing' scheme whereby US military S-58s would receive a Westmorland-style nose and the S-61 Sea King's twin General Electric T58 turboshafts (which, for this application) could be down-rated to improve TBO).

The US Army had a number of concerns about the layout of this proposed Westmorland derivative. The US Marine Corps, on the other hand, could see many advantages. Accordingly, in May 1966, Naval Air Systems Command recommended the trade-in of USN HSS-1s Seabats and USMC HUS-1 Seahorses for rebuild into T58-powered UH-34M utility helicopters for the Marine Corps.

Although initially dubbed 'Turbine-Seahorse', NAVAIR eventually approved the name Pensacola for the 'new' UH-34Ms (this name had strong US Navy connotations but Pensacola was also a Muskogean tribe name as was Choctaw, the US Army name for the UH-34). The first unit to receive rebuilt UH-34Ms Pensacola was Marine Medium Medium Helicopter Squadron 162, the 'Golden Eagles'.

HMM 162 had deployed to the Republic of Vietnam in Jan 1963, flying their UH-34Ds from Danang until June 1965 (when their Seahorses were turned over to the VNAF). Squadron members were returned to MCAS New River, NC, to retrain on the UH-34M Pensacola. In April 1967, HMM 162 re-deployed to Danang via MCAS Futenma on Okinawa. Other Marine Helicopter Squadrons followed, trading in piston-powered Seahorses for turbine Pensacolas.

In the meantime, Sikorsky was marketing the UH-34M to export markets as their S-58M. The first response came from Canada. The RCAF had bought six UH-34As back in 1955. The newly unified Canadian Armed Forces wanted to trade in the 'A models in exchange for purchasing a larger number of remanufactured UH-34Qs (the DOD's export designation for the UH-34M). The Canadian Armed Forces UH-58Qs were locally designated CH-126B Huron. Intended for the general utility role, the CH-126Bs were finished in all-over green. The aircraft shown here is the sole training machine of the type assigned to No. 403 Helicopter Operational Training Squadron at CFB Gagetown.

The CAF CH-126Bs served only until 1974. Caught between the CH-118 Iroquois and CH-147C Chinook, the CAF found themselves with surplus utility helicopters that could do little that the Chinooks couldn't do better. In 1975, the US approved transfer of the Canadian UH-34Qs to the Fuerza Aerea Argentina.
_________________________________
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: finsrin August 10, 2015, 10:58:58 AM
Just discovered "Sea Hustler" which deserves a styrene build and is way cool 8)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: LemonJello August 12, 2015, 12:48:33 AM
Of all the fantastic profiles and artwork on this site, this UH-34P/CH-126B is the first that has me checking Sprue Bros for possible donor kits to turn into a physical model, in 1/48. 

Would a Huey nose be suitable?  I could procure a Revell Huey and UH-34 at reasonable cost (less than getting the Kitty Hawk Sea Sprite by itself). 

Definitely something to ponder for a future acquisition.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia August 12, 2015, 05:23:39 AM
Thanks guys! No higher praise for a whif profile than breaking out the styrene  :D

LemonJello: I've tried a few quick paste-ups to see what RW noses would suit. KiwiZac suggested a Seasprite. The SH-2 nose is really deep but sectioned horizontally will work, I think. I'm pretty sure that's what I'll be going with for the next incarnation.

For the Westmorland and UH-34M/CH-126B (sorry, UH-34P was a typo), a lash-up Huey nose was too 'short'. I had the Westland 30 in mind when I did the artwork ... but no kits of that, AFAIK. So, I tried a Lynx AH.7 nose. Its a little shallow but with a little padding top and bottom, might work?
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: jcf August 12, 2015, 05:47:00 AM
The Huey fuselage is quite a bit wider than the S-58.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia August 12, 2015, 09:57:02 AM
Yep, width is going to be a problem for any donor kits. Here's some sizes ...

UH-34 - Width 1.737 m; cabin width 1.20 m

UH-1C - Width 2.62 m; cabin width 2.43 m
Lynx -- Width 2.175 m (over skids); cabin width 1.78 m
Kaman - Width [unknown]; cabin width 1.76 m
Puma -- Width 5.14 m (over wheels); cabin width 1.65 m*
 -- * Poss. averaging, some sources say 1.80 to 1.60 m

The closest I could find to the UH-34's cabin width is the Kiowa (bang on at 1.20 m) but the OH-58's nose is far too shallow  :P

Pushing pixels is sooo much easier than scratching styrene  ;)

: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: jcf August 13, 2015, 01:27:09 AM
Bell 222 cabin width 1.46m.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: kerick August 13, 2015, 06:52:39 AM
A Huey nose and cockpit would look more period. I think the Lynx is too many modern for the timeframe. This looks so build able and would look great finished. Then there would be the gunship version.......
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia August 19, 2015, 09:28:29 AM
Westmorland Outgrowths - The Sikorsky 'UH-34X' studies

The US Army saw the value in 'recycling' its aging Choctaw airframes but was not completely satisfied with the S-58M development as operated by the US Marines as their UH-34Ms Pensacola. Busy with other projects, Sikorsky offered the Army a few potential improvements in a desultory fashion but gained no interest.

The surprise came in late 1967 when the US Army Aviation Branch announced that it would open a contest to all American suppliers to upgrade the Choctaw fleet - the 'UH-34X' competition. Sikorsky was stunned as submissions to upgrade their helicopter were submitted by potential rivals. Bell declined to participlate in the 'UH-34X' program and offers from Brantly and Fairchild Hiller were quickly dismissed. But US Army Aviation took submissions from Vought/Sud-Aviation and Kaman Aircraft quite seriously.

Facing a PR crisis, Sikorsky pulled out all the stops. A quick submission to the 'UH-34X' program was made consisted of adding the Army's preferred crew entry and port side doors to the S-58M airframe. This concept, Model S-68 (I) was demonstrated using a UH-34D airframe as the basis for a mockup. The Army was pleased with what it saw but concerns were voiced about potential nose-heaviness -- especially with a nose-mounted armament (as exhibited on the mockup).

Sikorsky had anticipated the nose-heaviness problem and addressed this is the second part of their submission. The Model S-68 (II) was presented on paper. This concept involved substituting a S-61 main rotor hub (with S-58 length blades) as well as the Sea King's 5-bladed tail rotor. This was to take advantage of the greater power available from a completely reorganized drivetrain.

The Model S-68 (II) drivetrain was, in a sense, a miniaturized S-65 Sea Stallion layout. The Sea King's more powerful GE T58s were used but were now mounted alongside the main gearbox in S-65 fashion. The Model S-68 (II) retained the S-68 (I) crew doors but eliminated the post side door to reduce overall rebuild costs. The Model S-68 (II) was declared winner of the 'UH-34X' contest but on the understanding that Sikorsky would substitute the turbine engine of the Army's preference.

To be continued ...
_____________________
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin August 20, 2015, 02:26:42 AM
 :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: CiTrus90 August 20, 2015, 04:25:10 PM
 :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia August 23, 2015, 05:41:41 AM


Sikorsky's concept for their S-68 series bifurcated at an early stage. The original S-68 (II) emerged as the pre-series YUH-34S Muskogee. [1] There was no actual prototype of the Muskogee since Sikorsky had already modified an S-58M to test the revised S-68 (II) engine installation.

Using modified S-58M tooling, 'production' UH-34S followed from the newly-established Sikorsky Conversion Center at Tucson, AZ. Aircraft from the first batch were dispatched to Vietnam for trials with the 174th Assault Helicopter Company at Duc Pho in Quang Ngai province. With no shortage of targets in this Viet Cong stronghold, the UH-34S fleet were soon engaged in combat. Results were mixed.

Compared with 174 AHC UH-1C Hueys, the Muskogees provided the VC with a larger target. On the other hand, despite being more powerful, the 4-bladed UH-34S were slightly quieter than the 2-bladed UH-1Cs. However, any tactical advantage was seen to be offset by the Muskogee's inferior flexible-gun weapon installation (in contrast to the large, twin sliding doors of the smaller Bell helicopter).

Fortunately, Sikorsky was already addressing a revised design as a dedicated weapons carrier. Earlier, Sikorsky had embarked upon an S-61 based helicopter gunship design study -- the DS-531 Blackhawk. When the US Army offered to fund an S-68 (II) drivetrain demonstrator, Sikorsky was able to immediately substitute its private venture modified S-58M. It was then proposed that US Army funding be applied instead to an 'armed attack' variant of the S-68 (II), substituting the tandem-seat nose devised for the DS-531.

Sikorsky's 'armed attack' proposal was accepted. To speed conversion work, the dynamics from a YAH-34S were transferred to an H-34A airframe which was in the process of having the new, tandem-seat nose grafted on. The result was the S-68T (for 'Tactical' or  'Tandem' depending upon source) demonstrator aircraft which then became the YAH-34T.

________________________

[1] The name Muskogee followed the US Army pattern of applying Muskogean tribal names to Sikorsky utility helicopters (eg: H-19 Chicasaw, UH-34D Choctaw, and UH-34P Pensacola).
_________________________
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: LemonJello August 23, 2015, 07:26:23 AM
Oh, my. And the hits just keep on coming!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe August 23, 2015, 11:31:20 AM
The Apalachee (like a Mi-24? with tandem cockpit and central passengers?) is impressive! ;) Thanks!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Old Wombat August 23, 2015, 08:11:12 PM
The UH-34X must have been built/design in cooperation with Bell because it has that Bell look rather than Sikorsky to me. :-\
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia August 26, 2015, 07:40:40 AM
Thanks folks!

Old Wombat: The forward fuselage of the 'UH-34X' (and later UH-34S) have a vaguely Bell-ish look about them. It may be the lower nose windows that gives that feel. The actual canopy glazings are taken directly from the S-58 ... they've simply been move forward and down to the new nose.

The S-69 (I) proposal (the upper image) also mounts a M5 nose turret for the M75 40mm grenade launcher -- just as some of the Vietnam-era UH-1C Hueys did.

The Apalachee (like a Mi-24? with tandem cockpit and central passengers?) is impressive! ;) Thanks!

Tophe: Quite right, the Apalachee is just like the Mi-24. In the 'Real World', though, it might be more accurate to say that the Mi-24 is just like Sikorsky's S-67 Blackhawk concept.  ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia August 26, 2015, 09:53:51 AM
Choctaw Reborn - the Sikorsky AH-34T Apalachee into Service

As with the UH-34S Muskogee, the full 'production' AH-34T Apalachee conversions lost their S-61 hubs and returned to refurbished and strengthened Choctaw dynamics. The T58 turbines were also slightly derated to spare those rebuilt gearboxes. As a result, the operational AH-34T Apalachees tended to carry rather less armament than the YAH-34Ts.

A case in point is 'Voodoo Chile' of the 11th Armored Cavalry Regiment's Air Troop. In contrast to the trial YAH-34Ts, this 'Blackhorse' Apalachee has dispensed with side-mounted turret systems in favour or the more reliable 'Fixed Fifties' belly armament. As shown on this 'Appy', 11th ACV's AH-34Ts usually had their split side doors removed to allow a great field of fire for their side guns (in this case, single pintle-mounted M60s).

'Voodoo Chile' retains the YAH-34T's TK-1 style pylon supports. Here a single M157 2.75" rocket launcher pod is mounted per side. This 'Appy' was probably on 'red' target/destroy missions. When flying escort for 'blue' Aerial Rifle Platoon insertions, paired rocket pods were more common.

The YAH-34X was the second YAH-34T returned to Sikorsky for experimental use. After brief use on armament installation trials, the folding tail section of this aircraft was removed. Sikorsky provided an entirely new tail unit complete with a 'fenestron' style tail rotor. The purpose of this experiment was to prove the optional fenestron tail for Sikorsky's proposed DS-531/S-67 Blackhawk attack helicopter.

The YAH-34X was intended as a one-off but did prove the fenestron concept. With trials complete, the airframe was refitted with its original tail and returned to the US Army. However, following the US withdrawl from Vietnam, the AH-34T was an aircraft without a mission. The small Apalachee fleet was withdrawn from US Army service and sent to AMARC for storage and disposal. West Germany purchased twenty-three of these aircraft.

Paid for by the German government, the three YAH-34Ts and 20 AH-34Ts were transferred to Israel in return for the trade-in of an equivalent number of UH-34A/H-34G IIIs. These aircraft entered IDF service at Palmachim in 1978. In 1985, it was decided to rebuild the surviving 21 'Nachash' ('Serpent') airframes to YAH-34T standard. Sikorsky supplied the new main gearboxes and S-61 components along with details on the YAH-34X.

Project 'Nachash 90' was completed by late 1988 with these 'fenestroned YAH-34Xs' equipping 114. tajeset at Tel Nof (AFB 8). Ironically, IDF Nachash 90s always operated in concert with 'Tzefa' ('Viper') escorts -- the Apalachee's more successful rival, the Bell AH-1 Cobra.

__________________________
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe August 26, 2015, 11:21:47 AM
The brand new YAH-34X is my favourite, thanks!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: M.A.D September 15, 2015, 07:41:27 PM
The Kosher Hustler - the B-58i Ariyyáhu, my entry into the Extended Service Life and/or Back dated GB:
[url]http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=5433.0[/url] ([url]http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=5433.0[/url])

For those interested, there is also the B-58A Hustler armed with the British Blue Steel missile:
[url]http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=5345.msg90554#msg90554[/url] ([url]http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=5345.msg90554#msg90554[/url])


Wow apophenia, very impressive indeed!
Any chance of a depiction of the Convair B-58 Hustler offered to Australia, as a English Electric Canberra replacement, with a full complement of iron bombs and SEA camo scheme?

M.A.D
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia September 19, 2015, 09:45:33 AM
M.A.D.: Thanks for that.

My laptop is in the shop right now, so I must wait to see what data is recoverable. If the original B-58A sideview is still there, I'll have a go at an RAAF Hustler.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: M.A.D September 19, 2015, 03:44:11 PM
M.A.D.: Thanks for that.

My laptop is in the shop right now, so I must wait to see what data is recoverable. If the original B-58A sideview is still there, I'll have a go at an RAAF Hustler.

Thank's for your consideration apophenia!
After - what 81 pages of profiling, is it any wonder your poor laptop is in the workshop!
My thoughts go out to your laptop  ;)

M.A.D
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia November 18, 2015, 03:49:05 AM
Playing with Nakajima Ki-43/Ki-44 blends by the Tachikawa Hikoki K.K. ...

(Top) Tachikawa Ki-43 Ame-koh (American): a 'dissimilar air combat training' derivative adapted to a US Allison V-1710 engine (captured at Clark Field). To maintain the centre of gravity, the cockpit was moved aft (and fitted with a Ki-44 Shoki canopy). The IJAAF decided that Ki-61s Heins would be adequate for DAST needs and the contract was cancelled.

(Bottom) Tachikawa Ki-72 Arashi (Storm): Having employed the abandoned Ki-43 Ame-koh airframe for armament-fitting trials, designer Shinjiro Shinagawa hit on the notion of installing a heavier radial engine. The new Mitsubishi Ha.112-62 'Kinsei' 14-cylinder radial was chosen for this purpose. The result was the Ki-72 Arashi. [1]

In its 'productionized' form, the Ki-72 featured the 1,500 hp Kinsei engine, stronger Ki-44 main undercarriage, and and enlarged fin and rudder. Actual production of the Ki-72-I was transferred to the Manshūkoku Hikōki K.K. at Harbin to allow Tachikawa to focus on Ki-63 airframe development.

_________________________

[1]  The Ki-72 designation had been previously applied to what would become the Tachikawa Ki-55 II 'Ida' advanced trainer.
_________________________

: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin November 18, 2015, 03:54:58 AM
interesting
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia December 24, 2015, 09:53:13 AM
'Kamibako' - Tachikawa wooden versions of Nakajima's Ki-62 & Ki-63 [1]

Having passed on its improved Hayabusa - the Ki-72 Arashi - to Nakajima subsidiary Manshukoku, Tachikawa Hikoki K.K. was free to take on fresh work. Tachikawa was commissioned by the IJAAF to help develop Nakajima's next fighter project, the Ki-62. Tachikawa's part would be to provide an alternative Ki-62 structure composed largely of 'non-strategic' materials.

The resulting design was designated Ki-62mo (for 'mokusei' or 'wooden'). Test articles constructed by Ohji Koku K.K. of Ebetsu on Hokkaido, showed that a plywood-covered, spruce-framed Ki-62mo would add 270 kg to structural weight. This prompted a revised design which combined Nakajima's wing shape to a new welded steel-tube fuselage clad with wood. The latter would take the form of two pre-formed veneer panels sandwiching narrow-diameter bamboo canes.

Once it was apparent that Kawasaki could not (or would not) provide the 1,175 hp Ha.40 V-12 engines, Nakajima abandoned the Ki-62 in favour of the radial-engined Ki-63 project. Tachikawa followed Nakajima's lead but was further along in its wooden structural study than Nakajima in productionizing its fighter.

With the radial-engined Ki-63, the Tachikawa and Nakajima designs began to diverge. For its Ki-63mo-I, Tachikawa intended to install the 1,300 hp Mitsubishi Kinsei (Ha.112-54) 14-cylinder engine driving a 3-bladed propeller. Two 12.7 mm Ho-103 machine guns would be synchronized to fire through that prop disc with another Ho-103 installed in each wing.

_____________________

[1] Kamibako means 'cardboard box' or 'paper carton'.
_____________________

More to come ...
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: upnorth December 24, 2015, 08:44:00 PM
Cool stuff! Glad to see you're profiling again.  :)

That Ki-62 has a distinct Heinkel look going on around the cockpit and front end.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin December 25, 2015, 02:41:06 AM
Interesting
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia December 25, 2015, 05:30:41 AM
Thanks folks.

That Ki-62 has a distinct Heinkel look going on around the cockpit and front end.

Cheers 'north. I pinched the nose from an obliging Ki-61 Hein with a nod to the Aichi Seiran for the radiator. I'm not sure how accurate online images are of the Nakajima Ki-62 ... but 'wood panelling' aside, I haven't strayed too far from them.

I've never seen the Ki-63 project depicted. For my Ki-63mo-I, the cowling and prop came unchanged from the Aichi E16A Zuiun floatplane.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 02, 2016, 09:38:58 AM

The Ki-63ru - Saru mo ki kara ochiru (Even monkeys fall from trees) [1]

When the Ki-63mo-I concept was presented to the IJAAF, a spanner was thrown into the works. In addition to 'non-strategic' material construction, Army planners now also wanted to take advantage of Tachikawa's experience with high-altitude designs. The wooden Ki-63 now had to have an exhaust-driven turbo-supercharger.

The revised Ki-63ru design featured a  turbo-supercharger mounted in the starboard fuselage ducting compressed intake air along the fuselage portside to the intake manifold. To balance this bulk to aft, the Mitsubishi Ha.112-58 engine with an extended prop shaft and multi-blade cooling fan was introduced forward. This engine cooling fan allowed for tighter cowlings, in turn, improving aerodynamics.

The Turbo-supercharged Ki-63ru-II - Tachikawa's Tatsumaki (Tornado)

The IJAAF examined the Ki-63ru concept but rejected it poorly balanced and likely to lack performance at altitude. Revision of the design was done incrementally and in consultation with Army planners. In the first phase of what became known as the Ki-63ru-II Tatsumaki, a belly-mounted intercooler was added to the system to boost at-altitude performance. In the second phase, an entirely new wing was incorporated. This was a laminar-flow wing (the 'TH airfoil', devised by Tatsuo Hasegawa for the larger Ki-94 interceptor project) which served to shift the c/g.

For the final phase, a taller tailfin was also planned and cockpit pressurization was discussed. Despite this design resulting from IJAAF insistance, it was now apparent to Army staff that Tachikawa should concentrate its high altitude efforts on Tatsuo Hasegawa's Ki.94-II design with its larger turbo-supercharger. That was the end of the Tatsumaki.

Development work on the Ki-63 concept would continue but now as a low- and medium-altitude fighter intended to replace the Nakajima Ki-43 Hayabusa and, eventually, Tachikawa's own Ki-72 Arashi.

_____________________

[1] The sense of Saru mo ki kara ochiru is that even experts make mistakes.
_____________________

More to come ...
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin January 03, 2016, 03:20:18 AM
Nice work
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 04, 2016, 12:28:40 PM
Cheers Greg!

'Kamibako' - The Tachikawa Ki-63mo-III Ookaze (Strong Wind)

With the cancellation of the turbo-supercharged Ki-63ru-II project, Jiro Tanaka handed further Ki-63 development over to a team led by Shinjiro Shinagawa. Much of the work on the Ki-63mo-I was revived but Shinagawa retained the Ki-63ru-II's 'TH airfoil' laminar-flow wing and the engine cooling fan. Both features were seen as useful in balancing the weight of a wooden rear fuselage and newly-specified cockpit armour.

The section of the 'TH airfoil' also lent itself to installing wing-mounted armament. Provisionally, standard armament was planned at two cowl-mounted 12.7mm Ho-103 machine guns with a further four wing-mounted 12.7mm guns. An alternative interceptor armament was proposed with two cowl-mounted 12.7mm Ho-103s and a 20mm Ho-5 cannon in each wing.

Wind tunnel testing of models suggested that this new Ki-63mo-III would benefit from more tail area. A new fin and rudder were designed (based roughly on that of the Ki-63ru-II) and the opportunity was taken to move the tailplane forward on a shortened rear fuselage. Details had also been made available of Nakajima's progress on their version of the fighter - now redesignated as the Ki-84.

The Ki-84 was to be powered by Nakajima's 18 cylinder Homare engine. This new engine would not be available in time for the Ki-63mo-III but Tachikawa adapted Nakajima's ejector exhaust stub to their fighter's 14-cylinder Kinsei engine. The tailwheel design was also changed - from a Ki-44 unit to a forward-retracting type which, if hydraulics were damaged, would fall into place under its own weight. All of these features were adopted for the Ki-63mo-III prototype.

_____________________

More to come ...

___________________________
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe January 08, 2016, 02:20:52 PM
Belated congratulations for this Ki-62/63 interesting family! :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 12, 2016, 09:58:38 AM
Cheers Tophe.

(Top) Early production Ki-63mo-IIIa on tropical field trials at Krakor Airfield near Phnom Penh. Flown by WO (Rikugun-Jun-i) Kosuke Tsubone, this pre-production Ookaze is in standard green upper and blue-grey lower camouflage ... but has lost its tailwheel doors.

The Ki-63mo-IIIa was armed with two cowl- and two wing-mounted 12.7mm Ho-103 machine guns.

(Bottom) Ki-63mo-III-Kou flown by Captain (Rikugun-Tai-i) Taii Hideaki Inayama in the air defence of Tokyo. The Ki-63mo-III-Kou introduced a pair of 20mm Ho-5 cannons in the wing positions.
___________________

More to come ...
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Old Wombat January 14, 2016, 07:37:13 AM
Wow! :icon_surprised:

Good stuff, dude! :D
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 16, 2016, 11:01:18 AM
Cheers Vombatus antiquis ... and a few more Ookaze.

(Bottom) Ki-63mo-IIIb were normally armed with six 12.7mm Ho-103 machine guns (2 x synchronized, 4 x wing-mounted) but this aircraft had only one gun in each wing. In place of the extra wing guns, four under-wing rocket launch rails were mounted. Each Tachikawa Heiki (Tachikawa Weapon) rails carried a Type Ro-3 (Ro-San Dan) anti-aircraft rocket.

This Ki-63mo-IIIb was flown by 3rd Chutai, 52nd Sentai from Clark Field on Luzon. Intended for Ro-3 service trials, most of these fighters flew with the rocket rails removed to achieve higher speeds and better manoeuvrability.

(Top) Ki-63mo-IIIc, the first variant with all-cannon armament (2 x synchronized 20mm Ho-5 and another 2 x Ho-5 guns in the wings). This variant also introduced a weight-reducing finish of bleached woodwork and pearl-grey over metal parts. This Ki-63mo-IIIc belonged to the 3rd Chutai, 70th Sentai based at Kashiwa near Tokyo in April 1945.

The unknown pilot has claimed one B-29 destroyed. But, on 06 Aug 1945, this Ki-63mo-IIIc was destroyed on the ground by strafing P-51Ds of the Iwo Jima-based 21st Fighter Group.
__________________________

More to come ...
__________________________
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe January 16, 2016, 12:32:47 PM
Thanks for this addition.
But... do you know the even more incredible Ki-62.5? A twin-fuselage plane like the P-82 Mustang, with a Ki-62 in line engine on the port side (front on the profile, maybe without pilot/canopy) and a Ki-63 radial on the starboard side (behind on the profile)... Please show us how it was, or... I may be forced to show it myself... ??? ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 17, 2016, 09:38:09 AM
Thanks Tophe.

I don't know the Ki-62.5 but it must have been a close relative of the twin-fuselaged  Ki-62.75  ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe January 17, 2016, 11:38:54 AM
Uh? With no (external) tailplane, your Ki-62.75 seems obviously a twin-fuselage fighter  :-* :-* , thanks, but this is not obvious to see on the profile. That is why the half-radial single seat (on the fuselage behind) was my fitst thought, but you are the designer, engineer Apophenikawa!
Thanks again!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 19, 2016, 12:54:21 PM
Dying Days ... the Last of the Tachikawa Ki-63mo Ookaze fighters

The final production variant of the Ookaze was the Ki-63mo-IV. This series standardized all of the improvements of earlier models while introducing a 'universal' wing able to mount a wider range of armaments. An identification feature was the enlarged oil cooler bath and, on later
'IVs, a starter dog on the spinner tip.

The Ki-63mo-IV raised armament to 6 x 20mm Ho-5 guns but few of this initial production model were built due to Ho-5 shortages. Most were completed as Ki-63mo-IV-Kai with underwing gun pods. Almost all Ki-63mo-IV-Kai carried Ho-203 37mm cannons in their underwing pods (with upper surface 'blisters' covering the drum magazines). A handful of Ki-63mo-IV-Kais were trialled with 30mm Ho-155-II guns.

(Bottom) Tachikawa Ki-63mo-IV-Kai, 2nd Chutai, 102nd Sentai, Miyakonojo Airfield, southeastern Kyushu, April 1945. Armed with 2 x Ho-155-II 30mm underwing cannons, this aircraft also features some cockpit area replacement parts. This fighter was flown on several operational missions before being lost to a B-29 tail gunner on 13 June 1945.

The Ki-63mo-IVa model was fitted with plumbed underwing racks as standard. From the factory, the Ki-63mo-IVa was armed with 4 x 20mm Ho-5 guns. However, many frontline units removed the two wing cannons to improve performance when carrying underwing stores. Although intended for use as fighter-bombers, most Ki-63mo-IVa went to the Shimbu-tai (Special Attack Units) to be expended in suicide attacks.

(Top) Ki-63mo-IVa of the 57th Shimbu-tai (Special Attack Unit) based at Chiran, southern Kyushu. Carrying one underwing fuel tank and one 250 kg Type 92 HE bomb, this fighter was destroyed on the ground by B-25s attacking from Okinawa.

The Ki-63mo-IVb was to standardized on 30mm Ho-155-II wing guns, the Ki-63mo-IVc with podded 37mm Ho-204s. Neither of these Ookaze sub-types reached production.

____________________

More to come ...
____________________
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: finsrin January 19, 2016, 04:42:19 PM
Great job. :)
Much as I like appearance of camo, wonder if that scheme ever did effective camouflaging. ???
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 22, 2016, 09:27:53 AM
finsrin: I suppose the blotches broke up the outline. But, applied over silver or natural metal ?  ???

Setting Sun ... the End of the Tachikawa Ki-63mo Ookaze fighters

One final Ookaze variant was complete ... but by Nakajima rather than Tachikawa. This was the sole Ki-63mo-Vb. The Tachikawa Ki-63mo-V series were powered by Nakajima's 18-cylinder Ha-45 Homare radial. A complex engine, the Ha-45 was also surprisingly light and compact for its output of 1,900 hp. This dictated slightly longer engine-bearers than those employed on Nakajima's metal Ki-84 Hayate fighters.

Priority was given to the cannon-armed Ki-63mo-Vb. The wings of this variant were modified to accomodate the new 37mm Ho-203 37mm cannon within the wing structure (rather than in underwing pods). The prototype Ki-63mo-Vb was completed in early June 1945 and transferred to Nakajima to have its engine and its Ki-84 cowling fitted on 09 June 1945.

On the following night, B-29s of XXI Bomber Command dropped vast numbers of HE and incidiary bombs on the Tachikawa factory (target code-name 'Modeller'). The raid was devastatingly effective. The plant buildings were largely destroyed and wooden structures stockpiled for Ki-63mo construction were perfect tinder for the incidiaries. Tachikawa Hikoki K.K. had effectively ceased to exist. [1]

At war's end, the completed Ki-63mo-Vb was found at the Tokyo plant of the Nakajima Hikoki KK. Collected on behalf of the USAAF Technical Data Laboratory (TDL), the 'Homare Ookaze' was prepared for flight testing. However, on its first flight, the engine seriously overheated and the USAAF pilot made an emergency landing. On touch-down, the starboard main undercarriage leg collapsed and a wing was heavily damaged. The Ho-204 guns were removed and the airframe scrapped.

[Top] Tachikawa Ki-63mo-Vb prototype repainted in USAAF TDL markings. Tokyo, September 1945.

The Ookaze was more thoroughly tested by US forces. Using the remains of five different Ki-63mo-IIIb airframes collected at Clark Field in the Phillipines, theTechnical Air Intelligence Unit–South West Pacific Area (TAIU-SWPA) was able to create a single, flyable Ki-63mo-III. With the war over, this fighter was sent first to Yokohama Naval Base and thence to the USAAF Air Depot at Freeman Field, IN.

[Bottom] Tachikawa Ki-63mo-IIIb in TAIU-SWPA markings, Clark Field, Luzon, August 1945.

____________________

[1] Also destroyed were the facilities of Showa hikoki kogyo KK. Showa had been working on the L2D5, a wooden DC-3 derivative. Tachikawa assisted Showa with the installation of the 1560 hp Mitsubishi HA-33 Kinsei radials in their wooden Tabby.

... Fin
____________________
: Dornier Do 355
: apophenia January 28, 2016, 10:19:19 AM

In October 1944, Dornier lost control of their P 254 mixed-power Do 335 development. The following month, Dornier proposed a scaled-down version, the P 275. This aircraft would retain the P 254's DB 603 in the nose but the tail Heinkel He S 011 turbojet was to be replaced by a Walter HWK 109-509 liquid-fuel rocket.

The RLM accepted the P 275 interceptor for development as the Dornier Do 355. Ordered to use as many parts from existing aircraft as possible, Dornier incorporated many Do 335 compenents as well as the canopy from Heinkel's pending Volksjäger and the tailwheel undercarriage of the Focke-Wulf Ta 152 series. The prototype Do 335 V1 was completed in late February 1945.

The Do 335 V1 made two successful flights using only its piston engine. The third flight was to begin with a 'scharfen start' to accelerate take-off. Instead, as soon as it was lit, the Walter HWK 109-509A motor exploded ... killing test pilot Robert Moßbacher and completely destroying the aircraft.

Dornier had intended to produce the P 275/I as the Do 355A Pfeilspitze (Arrowhead) interceptor powered by a DB 603LA and a Walter HWK 109-509A. The P 275/II with Jumo 213E-1 and Walter HWK 109-509C would become the Do 355B. Production of both interceptor variants was cancelled after the tragic loss of the Do 355 V1.

Rather than waste the energy already expended on the Do 355, the RLM asked Dornier to complete the second prototype as a schlachtflugzeug or ground-attack aircraft. This was done with the Walter rocket engine being displaced by FDSL 131 barbettes (from the Me 410) manned by a second crewman. The nose-mounted armament consisted of three 20mm MG151/20 cannons (with an optional 30mm MK 103 in a Motorkanone installation).

Dornier had wanted to resurrect their 'umbrella' airbrake for divebombing attacks but the RLM insisted upon a 'wobble-mounted' MG151 for additional tail protection. A Rückwärtswarngerät (tail warning radar) was planned although this was never installed. Offensive armament was to consist of three 250 kg bombs or a single, centeline bomb with two 300 litre drop tanks on underwing racks.

Dornier intended to produce the new schlachtflugzeug as the Do 355C Säbel (Sabre). The prototype Do 335 V2 was flown by test pilot, Hans Werner Lerche, on 9 April 1945. The aircraft performed well but, during the test flight, Dornier's airfield at Oberpfaffenhofen was attacked by B-17s of the 398th Bomb Group and heavily damaged. The Säbel prototype was due to be ferried to the Rechlin Erprobungstelle for official evaluation but, perhaps due to fuel shortages, this never happened.

In any case, it was clear that the German collapse was near and that the Do 355C would never enter production. The US Army overran the Oberpfaffenhofen factory in late April 1945 and found the sabotaged Do 335 V2 among the ruins.

___________________________

NB: These profiles began life as an unsuspecting Do 335 V14 by the inimitable Simon Schatz.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin January 29, 2016, 02:37:22 AM
 :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe January 30, 2016, 01:55:34 AM
Very surprising, and nicely enriching the Do-335 family...
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia February 02, 2016, 10:34:39 AM

British Aircraft Corporation (BAC) Basalisk Tactical Strike/Reconnaissance Aircraft

In 1955, Vickers submitted its distinctive Type 559 for the OR F.155. In its original Type 559A form, this fighter featured twin 'stacked' De Havilland Gyron PS.26/1 turbojets flanked by a pair of 5,000 lb.s.t. DH Spectre Junior liquid-fuelled rocket motors. Armament consisted of two Vickers Red Hebe or DH Blue Jay (Firestreak) missiles mounted above the mid fuselage.

Air Ministry concerns about armaments installation drag prompted the revised Vickers Type 559B. The Type 559B differed in having the two Gyron D.Gy.1 jets mounted side-by-side in a widened rear fuselage. Below the wing, a horizontally-arranged DSpe.D.1 Double Spectre filled the lower rear fuselage. Forward of the rocket motor was a new weapons bay to enclosed the guided missiles.

Neither Vickers OR F.155 proposal was accepted but an AirMin official did suggest that the Type 559B might make the basis for a submission to GOR.339 for a Canberra bomber replacement. This put Vickers-Armstrong in an awkward position since the firm was already backing the advanced Supermarine Type 571 for GOR.339. Accordingly, Vickers made two proposals.

The Supermarine Type 571 would form the more advanced TSR.2 submission, while the Vickers Type 559C would become the 'interim' TSR.1. Compared with its fighter ancestor, the Type 559C would have no titanium in its structure. Nor would it carry booster rocket motors. The emphasis was on simplicity of structure with durability as a secondary consideration (since it would be replaced quickly by the more advanced TSR.2 design).

The prototype Type 559C emerged in July 1961 as the BAC Basalisk. Shown is a Basalisk TSR Mk.1A of No.249 Squadron out of RAF Akrotiri in early 1965. This 'Basil' is dropping an inert Red Beard 'shape' on a Cypriot beach target before pressing on to the Larnaca Bombing Range for its second drop.

________________________

NB: This Basalisk began as 2010 Vickers Type 559 artwork by Kevin Jongen
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: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: kerick February 02, 2016, 10:38:19 AM
That looks wild and yet believable!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia February 02, 2016, 10:49:04 AM
Thanks kerick!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin February 03, 2016, 02:45:16 AM
 :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe February 03, 2016, 03:02:17 AM
Your Basalisk drawing is beautiful, thanks! :-*
This name sounds as the French basilic (basilisk) aromatic herb, has it a meaning?
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin February 03, 2016, 03:05:48 AM
has it a meaning?

Not quite the same as the French basilic...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basilisk
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe February 03, 2016, 01:43:18 PM
Thanks for this unexepected discovery, bringing another interest in Apophenia's drawing/name ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia February 04, 2016, 01:14:48 PM
has it a meaning?
Not quite the same as the French basilic...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basilisk

Thanks Greg. There is a double entendre in a basalisk bomber, as well ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basilisk_%28cannon%29 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basilisk_%28cannon%29)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia February 11, 2016, 07:09:40 AM

Full disclosure ... I am not a big fan of the stacked-engined English Electric Lightning. So, when I found out that English Electric had developed a single-engined Lightning for ER.134T, [1] I had to whif it :)

English Electric put forward at least P.6 variations for ER.134T - the stacked-engined P.6/2 (in swept and delta-winged variations), two mid-wing engined twins (the straight-winged P.6B and the trapasoid-winged P.6D). [2] And then there is the single-engined P.6/1 :

So, in my whif, the English Electric P.6/1 is chosen for ER.134T in place of Bristol 188 (whose stainless steel construction, the Air Ministry was concerned might delay the research program). The prototype P.6/1 research aircraft, WG760, is powered by a Rolls-Royce RB.106 producing 19,500 lb.st in full reheat. On 25 November 1958, the P.6/1 became the first British aircraft to exceed Mach 2.

English Electric had never intended the P.6/1 to be a pure research platform. For the outset, the aircraft had been designed to be suitable as an operational fighter. The Lightning was powered by a Rolls-Royce RB.106 Tamar two-shaft turboshaft generating 21,750 lb.st. Lightning interceptors served the RAF from the F.1A of early 1960 to the longer-range F.6 which finally retired in 1988.
__________________________

ER.134T = Experimental Research, Tender, a research programme for Mach 2 flight.
__________________________
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: finsrin February 11, 2016, 08:45:24 AM
Like looks of single engine versions.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe February 11, 2016, 11:34:41 PM
Interesting variants.
Would you someday complete the family by a 2-engined version without nose air intake (but lateral ones)?
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin February 12, 2016, 03:08:08 AM
I like
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: taiidantomcat February 13, 2016, 04:30:45 AM

Full disclosure ... I am not a big fan of the stacked-engined English Electric Lightning. So, when I found out that English Electric had developed a single-engined Lightning for ER.134T, [1] I had to whif it :)

English Electric put forward at least P.6 variations for ER.134T - the stacked-engined P.6/2 (in swept and delta-winged variations), two mid-wing engined twins (the straight-winged P.6B and the trapasoid-winged P.6D). [2] And then there is the single-engined P.6/1 :

So, in my whif, the English Electric P.6/1 is chosen for ER.134T in place of Bristol 188 (whose stainless steel construction, the Air Ministry was concerned might delay the research program). The prototype P.6/1 research aircraft, WG760, is powered by a Rolls-Royce RB.106 producing 19,500 lb.st in full reheat. On 25 November 1958, the P.6/1 became the first British aircraft to exceed Mach 2.

English Electric had never intended the P.6/1 to be a pure research platform. For the outset, the aircraft had been designed to be suitable as an operational fighter. The Lightning was powered by a Rolls-Royce RB.106 Tamar two-shaft turboshaft generating 21,750 lb.st. Lightning interceptors served the RAF from the F.1A of early 1960 to the longer-range F.6 which finally retired in 1988.
__________________________

ER.134T = Experimental Research, Tender, a research programme for Mach 2 flight.
__________________________

Ive had the idea of putting an F-15 fin on a Mig-21 w Lightning wings forever as a single engine lightning, just havn't gotten around to it yet :icon_crap:

Nice work here  :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia February 13, 2016, 09:55:34 AM
Thanks folks!

Tophe: Pass! There was a Real World proposal for a side-intakes Lightning. And it was truly hideous :o

Ive had the idea of putting an F-15 fin on a Mig-21 w Lightning wings forever as a single engine lightning, just havn't gotten around to it yet :icon_crap:

taiidan': Good approach  :)  Once you've scaled down that nose intake, the Lightning  really does take on a MiG-21 appearance.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia February 20, 2016, 06:16:35 AM
Rather bizarrely, the Free Syrian Army has captured 5,000-odd WW2-era MP44 automatic rifles. This already sounds like a whif ... but we can go further. What if CIA trainers organized updates for the captured Sturmgewehr?

[Top] A local Syrian MP44 upgrade with CIA-supplied Magpul Khukov replacement forward stock. This MP44 (and its polymer magazine) have been given a thorough spraying with Krylon Ultra-Flat Camo paints.

[Bottom] Syrian MP44 upgrade with Magpul Khukov polymer fore and butt stocks. This rifle has been captured by the al-Nustra Front. From the flag wrapping the barrel, the MP44's new owner appears to be a Saudi.
_______________________
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia February 20, 2016, 06:18:12 AM

Local armourers could not keep pace with demand for MP44 rifles for Free Syrian Army use. CIA advisors found willing arms factories in neighbouring countries to perform MP44 upgrades. Bulgarian MP44 upgrades were done by Arcus Co in Lyaskovets. Two Turkish firms performed similar work - TiSAS at Trabzon and MKEK at Kirikkale.

The Arcus AR-MP44 rifles were fitted with an Alpha BattleRail from Troy Industries and a Magpul butt stock with cheek riser. AR-MP44s were originally shipped with 30-round polymer magazines but these were later replaced with 75-round drum magazine similar to those issued for AK-47s.

Turkey's TiSAS lightly refurbished Syrian MP44s before installing CIA-supplied furniture - KV-14 forward stock/rails and adjustable butt stocks from Krebs Custom. The resulting Trabzon-44 was highly popular with FSA fighters.

[Top] A Bulgarian Arcus AR-MP44 upgrade fitted with an American Beta C-Mag 100-round twin-drum magazine in place of the expected 75-rd drum. Beta C-Mag and Bulgarian drum magazines proved to be the solution to both tactical and supply issues with MP44 magazine - original and polymer replacements.

[Bottom] A Turkish TiSAS Trabzon-44 MP44 update with Krebs Custom KV-14 forward handgrip/rail and adjustable butt stock. These Krebs conversions were performed at TISAS in Trabzon. Two original MP44 magazines are clipped together with a Magpul coupler.

_______________________
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia February 20, 2016, 06:19:35 AM

Only one 7.92x33mm rifle was specifically designed for the Syrian conflict. This was the Handl SCAR44 - itself, a re-designed lower receiver for the FN SCAR. Issued only to US advisors to the FSA, the Handl SCAR44 provided a 7.92x33mm rifle with SCAR-H, Mk 17 'muscle memory' for former USSOCOM personnel.

One of the Turkish MP44 updates was done by MKEK at Kirikkale. MKEK MP44 refurbishments were similar to the TiSAS Trabzon-44 but more extensively refurbished. The result was the best of the MP44 upgrades ... but at a price. Cost overruns were such that only 150 MKEK MP44/16s were delivered before the contract was cancelled. The 'Mek' was highly sought after but its 20-round box magazines were often abandoned.

[Top] Handl Defense SCAR44 fitted with an HD MK17 Advanced Fore-Rail and coloured metal mag.

[Bottom] Turkish MKEK MP44/16 with the distinctive sights and polymer furniture adopted from the Turk's domestic MPT-76 automatic rifle. Note the 20-rd metal magazine with stamped 'MKE' logo.
_______________________
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin February 20, 2016, 01:14:15 PM
Rather bizarrely, the Free Syrian Army has captured 5,000-odd WW2-era MP44 automatic rifles.

Was anyone ever able to provide an explanation as to how they got there in the first place?
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia February 21, 2016, 04:10:14 AM
Was anyone ever able to provide an explanation as to how they got there in the first place?

I've seen two stories...

One was that the FSA captured the armoury where the MP44s had been stored since the '50s.

The second story - a bit more plausible, IMHO - is that the Sturmgewehr had been dug out of storage by the Assad regime with the idea of selling them off to Western collectors. The MP44s were stuffed into ISO containers for shipment out of Syria but UN regulations hung them up until the FSA arrived on the scene.

The only problem with story #2 is trying to imagine Assad's export efforts being thwarted by UN regs. Other international laws haven't slowed him down at all ... nor the FSA, come to that  :P
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: ysi_maniac February 21, 2016, 06:14:51 AM
HI, I love your camoufled MP-44. ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Volkodav February 21, 2016, 02:01:46 PM
I am not sure if this has any relevance to the discussion but I do recall something about the EOKA group in Cyprus using Stg 44s to some degree.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin February 22, 2016, 03:37:15 AM
Was anyone ever able to provide an explanation as to how they got there in the first place?

I've seen two stories...

One was that the FSA captured the armoury where the MP44s had been stored since the '50s.

The second story - a bit more plausible, IMHO - is that the Sturmgewehr had been dug out of storage by the Assad regime with the idea of selling them off to Western collectors. The MP44s were stuffed into ISO containers for shipment out of Syria but UN regulations hung them up until the FSA arrived on the scene.

The only problem with story #2 is trying to imagine Assad's export efforts being thwarted by UN regs. Other international laws haven't slowed him down at all ... nor the FSA, come to that  :P

You missed my point:  how/when did the MP44s get into Syria in the first place? Not how did they come to light now.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia February 22, 2016, 04:11:37 AM

I did indeed... According to this site, the Syrian MP44s are most likely "reworked DDR stuff".

http://claus.espeholt.dk/mp44.htm (http://claus.espeholt.dk/mp44.htm)

So, probably ex-Volkspolizei weapons. Other possible candidate sources are ex-Czechoslovak Samopal or Yugoslav (although, according to Claus Espeholt, the 40,000 Yugoslav MP44s went to Libya).

: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Volkodav February 22, 2016, 10:04:20 AM
There were Stugs and Panzer IV spplied to Syria post war and a few MG42 etc turning up in Iraq in the 2000s.  I wonder if a large amount of ex German gear was exported from eastern Europe in the 50s and 60s.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia February 22, 2016, 10:15:05 AM
Later too. Apparently, the Yugoslav MP44s were in service until the mid '80s.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia February 25, 2016, 06:47:34 AM

My take on M.A.D.'s revamped Qantas Ilyushin IL-76CFM:
http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=6108.msg103614 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=6108.msg103614) ...

In my scenario, the three Qantas IL-76CFM conversions are VH-ILQ 'Scotty Allan', VH-ILM 'Norman Brearley', and VH-ILN 'Lores Bonney'. Although not assigned to any particular airframe, the MAFFS III firefighting systems were also name - 'Black Saturday', 'Ash Wednesday', and 'Black Tuesday'.

[Top/Inset] IL-76CFM VH-ILQ shortly after arrival. As delivered, the Qantas IL-76CFMs had an overall white scheme with red vertical tail markings and pale grey cowlings.

Note that this aircraft is missings its Qantas cowling markings. Nor has the name 'Scotty Allan' been applied to the nose (where standard Ilyushin Ил-76ТД/IL-76TD markings remain).

VH-ILQ was delivered with its original Russian suite - RLS-N weather radar and an under-nose RLS-P Koopol/Duran-B navigation set. These Russian radar sets were replaced soon after arrival.

[Below] IL-76CFM VH-IMQ in its final configuration. The Russian radar sets have been replaced by a Northrop Grumman APN-241 radar - for its terrain-following capabilties and commonality with RAAF C-130J and C-27J transports). The superfluous lower radome has been replaced with a fairing for a UV line scanner (forward) and a semi-retractable Wescam MX-20 E/O turret (aft).

VH-IMQ is shown here in near-full Qantas livery. The lower fuselage has been stripped (to lessen the maintenance burden of repairing chipped paintwork) and the forward anti-glare panel has been painted over. The aircraft's name 'Norman Brearley' has been applied to the nose and Qantas logos to the rear of each engine cowling. Eventually, (likely during the first engine major overhaul) the cowlings will be resprayed in 'fuselage white'.

_________________________________
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe February 25, 2016, 02:21:17 PM
I Wonder if the right comment is "surprising" or 'future"... ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: M.A.D February 29, 2016, 03:15:32 AM

My take on M.A.D.'s revamped Qantas Ilyushin IL-76CFM:
[url]http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=6108.msg103614[/url] ([url]http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=6108.msg103614[/url]) ...

In my scenario, the three Qantas IL-76CFM conversions are VH-ILQ 'Scotty Allan', VH-ILM 'Norman Brearley', and VH-ILN 'Lores Bonney'. Although not assigned to any particular airframe, the MAFFS III firefighting systems were also name - 'Black Saturday', 'Ash Wednesday', and 'Black Tuesday'.

[Top/Inset] IL-76CFM VH-ILQ shortly after arrival. As delivered, the Qantas IL-76CFMs had an overall white scheme with red vertical tail markings and pale grey cowlings.

Note that this aircraft is missings its Qantas cowling markings. Nor has the name 'Scotty Allan' been applied to the nose (where standard Ilyushin Ил-76ТД/IL-76TD markings remain).

VH-ILQ was delivered with its original Russian suite - RLS-N weather radar and an under-nose RLS-P Koopol/Duran-B navigation set. These Russian radar sets were replaced soon after arrival.

[Below] IL-76CFM VH-IMQ in its final configuration. The Russian radar sets have been replaced by a Northrop Grumman APN-241 radar - for its terrain-following capabilties and commonality with RAAF C-130J and C-27J transports). The superfluous lower radome has been replaced with a fairing for a UV line scanner (forward) and a semi-retractable Wescam MX-20 E/O turret (aft).

VH-IMQ is shown here in near-full Qantas livery. The lower fuselage has been stripped (to lessen the maintenance burden of repairing chipped paintwork) and the forward anti-glare panel has been painted over. The aircraft's name 'Norman Brearley' has been applied to the nose and Qantas logos to the rear of each engine cowling. Eventually, (likely during the first engine major overhaul) the cowlings will be resprayed in 'fuselage white'.

_________________________________


I like Apophenia!
I like it a lot!!

Particle like "terrain-following capabilities" and "the MAFFS III firefighting systems were also name - 'Black Saturday', 'Ash Wednesday', and 'Black Tuesday' "

Permission to add your art to by backstory Apophenia?

Regards
Pioneer
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia February 29, 2016, 10:29:49 AM
Chuffed to have my Ilyushin added to your story Pioneer. Cheers!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: M.A.D February 29, 2016, 07:24:01 PM
Chuffed to have my Ilyushin added to your story Pioneer. Cheers!

No no, it is I whom am chuffed my friend!!
I have incorporated some of your backstory and awesome profile into my/our story!!

M.A.D
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia March 04, 2016, 10:53:36 AM
M.A.D: Rough versions of the ASLAV-Recce variant I had in mind for your Alt ADF Orbat...

A 4x4 ASLAV variant assembled by GM Holden. The hull is shortened and the centre pairs of drive wheels eliminated. For 'stealth' recce, a turretless version with a Will-Burt extensible mast (like a mini Coyote). For 'sabre' recce, a turreted version - 20mm Rh202 cannon (as per Tipo 6616) in a Spz Marder (shown) or SpPz Luchs turret.

: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Old Wombat March 04, 2016, 07:28:03 PM
I have an ASLAV. :))


I have a Spz Marder turret. :D


I (now) have a plan! ;D
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia March 05, 2016, 03:23:31 AM
Oooo ... looking forward to seeing your ASLAV shortie in styrene!  :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Gingie March 12, 2016, 01:23:02 AM
Kinda similar idea:

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3937/14999313073_cc6487952e_o.jpg)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia March 13, 2016, 04:20:29 AM
Nice to see again, Graeme!  :)

I was kind of harkening back to an old idea of mine for Litvak's AltCan concept - the C19A1 Bobcat WLAV:
http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=351.msg8125#msg8125 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=351.msg8125#msg8125)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Gingie March 17, 2016, 11:47:24 AM
you fooled me! I thought those ASLAV 4x4 were real!!!  :-[
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia March 18, 2016, 07:43:38 AM
you fooled me! I thought those ASLAV 4x4 were real!!!  :-[

Praise indeed! Thanks Graeme  :D

They were just quick bodge-ups to suggest an idea to M.A.D for his Alt ADF Orbat. Actually, I've just realized that I left part of the portside second wheel from the original 8x8 ASLAV showing on my masted version  :-[
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia March 20, 2016, 11:56:34 AM

Canadair CL-94 'StarTrainer'

While preparing the Cartierville factory for licensed Lockheed CL-90 (CF-104) Starfighter production, Canadair's Advanced Projects Office proposed an advanced lead-in trainer. RCAF basic jet training was to be handled by Canadair's CL-41A Tutor. Operational training was covered by CF-104D two-seaters. But advanced lead-in training would continue to rely upon the CL-30 Silver Star, Canadair's license-built T-33 Shooting Star.

The CL-30 was a good aircraft but, to Canadair's APO staff, the Silver Star belonged to an earlier era. There was room, the design department believed, for fully modern advanced training aircraft to better match the highly demanding CF-104.

The general concept arrived at was a less demanding training employing as many CF-104 parts as was feasible. The result was the CL-94 which made use of CF-104 wings (albeit in a new, low-placed arrangement) and the cockpit section of the Starfighter in a largely unchanged nose. The latter was offered with single-seat or two-seat, dual-control cockpits.

The two-seater CL-94D (briefly known as 'StarTrainer') was put forward as a direct Silver Star replacement advanced trainer. The single-seat CL-94A was seen as what would today be referred to as a Lead-In Fighter Trainer. Both variants could be fitted with launch rails for GAR-8 Sidewinder IA missiles or wing tip fuel tanks. Both variants were to be powered by an afterburning version of the Orenda-built GE J85-CAN-40 turbojet. [1]

Unfortunately, the RCAF was not then interested in a Silver Star replacement. Brief discussions were had about adapting the CF-104 radar to the CL-30 but, in the end, this too was abandoned in favour of a similar scheme employing the CL-41R Tutor.
__________________

[1] The J85-CAN-40 produced 2,650 lbf 'dry'. With afterburning, output was to be 4,050 lbf for each engine (or, combined, nearly double that of the CL-30's single Orenda-built Nene).
__________________
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: finsrin March 20, 2016, 01:37:18 PM
Nifty  :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: elmayerle March 20, 2016, 08:18:43 PM
Gorgeous!!  A shame such didn't get built, it probably would've reduced the accident rate NATO-wide.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia March 21, 2016, 02:32:42 AM
Thanks folks. More to come on Canadair Starfighter derivatives ...
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe March 21, 2016, 01:15:11 PM
A shame such didn't get built, it probably would've reduced the accident rate NATO-wide.
I tried to find with Google/Pictures "starfighter 2-seat" and I got several photographs. Is such a trainer a complete Apophenia invention (after other ones tried also)? or just the Canadian version is invented?
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: elmayerle March 22, 2016, 02:54:29 AM
This particular iteration is.  Over and above the two-seat trainer versions of the F-104, there were proposed trainer versions of the CL-41 (CL-41R) and MB.326 (MB.326C) with the F-104's radar.  As 'tis, at least some of the F-104 radar training was accomplished in some quite modified C-47's.

The MB.326C is a rather attractive design, even if it only made it to mockup status.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin March 22, 2016, 03:15:11 AM
The MB.326C is a rather attractive design, even if it only made it to mockup status.


I actually find it quite ugly:

(http://digilander.libero.it/air10/f104/immagini/foto/mb326c.jpg)
(http://digilander.libero.it/air10/f104/immagini/foto/curiosita_mb326c_big.jpg)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia March 22, 2016, 10:19:51 AM
I actually find it quite ugly:

Whereas the CC-129 Dakota radar trainer was able to maintain its svelte, fighter-like good looks  ;D

Tophe: Lots of 2-seat F-104 conversion trainers were made. My whif was supposed to be a 'lead-in' trainer ... that is, smaller, cheaper to operate, and more forgiving of trainee pilot error. The idea sprang from the 'widow-maker' reputations of the RCAF's CF-104 Starfighter - which had a loss rate amounting to nearly 40% of the Canadian fleet.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: elmayerle March 22, 2016, 10:21:27 AM
Greg,

De gustibus non disputatem est  I happen to like those lines (then again, I've worked at AerMacchi (way back when) and like their products).
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: jcf March 22, 2016, 01:45:47 PM
Gorgeous!!  A shame such didn't get built, it probably would've reduced the accident rate NATO-wide.


(http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww291/joncarrfarrelly/LOSSES_VS_FIRST_FLIGHT.png)

(http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww291/joncarrfarrelly/LOSSES_VS_HOURS.png)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe March 23, 2016, 02:14:29 AM
Tophe: Lots of 2-seat F-104 conversion trainers were made. My whif was supposed to be a 'lead-in' trainer ... that is, smaller, cheaper to operate, and more forgiving of trainee pilot error. The idea sprang from the 'widow-maker' reputations of the RCAF's CF-104 Starfighter - which had a loss rate amounting to nearly 40% of the Canadian fleet.
Thanks for the explanation!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Schwann90 March 26, 2016, 10:07:33 AM
Do you mind if i profile your Me-209?
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia March 26, 2016, 01:20:42 PM
Schwann90: For sure ... I'd love to see what you do with it.

BTW, did you mean my Bf 109/Mustang hybrids? http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=351.msg44510#msg44510 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=351.msg44510#msg44510)

Or were your thinking of the Ost Afrika series? (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=351.msg10625#msg10625)

And welcome aboard BTS  :D
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: finsrin March 26, 2016, 01:31:24 PM
CC-129 Dakota --- looks like low dollar attempt to increase speed (same engines).  :D
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia March 26, 2016, 01:34:01 PM
Yeah, folks may have made fun of the Pinocchio's nose but left those other Daks in the dust  ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Schwann90 March 27, 2016, 01:00:20 AM
Thank you, i meant the Mustang, you have several very nice designs but this one just looks damn neat.

EDIT: Im ''Senji'', i just realized that somewhow i was posting with an very old acount i used just to admire things here before making one with my name to post, i didnt mean this and im gonna switch back...
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Old Wombat March 31, 2016, 05:52:17 PM
Hey, mate, just letting you know I've started on my 3D interpretation blending these 2D images. ;)

(http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=351.0;attach=12872;image)
* aslav-4x4-recce-stealth.jpg (46.7 kB, 685x379 - viewed 37 times.)
(http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=351.0;attach=12874;image)
* aslav-4x4-recce-sabre.jpg (82.26 kB, 779x410 - viewed 30 times.)

Point to note: the Marder turret has the same ring diameter (+/- a tiny bit) as the ASLAV but the fitment is totally different between the 2 kits being used.


Link to build thread: http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=6197.0 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=6197.0)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia April 07, 2016, 10:58:08 AM
Old Wombat: Following with great interest!

Canadair CF-104 Starfighter Developments - Orenda Turbojets

As the CL-90 was prepared for production as the CF-104, Canadair was approached by the producer of its J79 powerplant, Orenda Engines Ltd. Noting that the afterburning General Electric turbojet was not ideal for the RCAF's planned low-altitude strike role, Orenda suggested a remedy.

Orenda has studied the possibility of adapting the Starfighter airframe to the Rolls-Royce Spey turbofan. But the low-altitude role planned for RCAF CF-104s suggested a simpler alternative. Orenda's own Iroquois turbojet had roughly the same diameter as the Spey. But the Spey's full-reheat thrust could be matched by the Iroquois without recourse to afterburning.

Substituting an unreheated version of Orenda's Iroquois for the licensed J79 was a matter of slightly enlarging the Starfighter's removable rear fuselage section. Weight was not an issue since removing the Iroquois' large, Solar afterburner gave exactly the same dry weight as the afterburning J79-OEL-7 - 3,850 lb. The benefit would be the fuel savings made by using the PS-13U Iroquois' dry thrust of 19,250 lb.st in place of the J79's 17,835 lb.st in afterburner.

Canadair refined the Orenda concept slightly (removing the outer of three engine shrouds) and it was submitted to the RCAF as the Starfighter UOI (for Unreheated Orenda Iroquois). A second concept, more radical deviation from the original CF-104 was put forward at the same time. This 'Starfighter Strike' was to be powered by twin Orenda PS-18 Haida turbojets. [1] The engine pods were separated from the fuselage by a new stub wing section. The standard Starfighter wings were now outer panels attaching to hoop frames around the engines. By podding the engines, much of the fuselage could be dedicated to carrying fuel.

___________________

[1] The PS-18 Haida was, in effect, a scaled-down PS-13 Iroquois. In this case, the afterburners were retained, producing 9,850 lb.st in full afterburner.

___________________
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: phoenix54 April 07, 2016, 05:21:27 PM
Like the 'Starfighter Strike' concept, also gave a larger wing area, possibility of fewer 'smoking holes*'?

*Not quite urban myth, BUT.................
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe April 07, 2016, 10:52:02 PM
Thanks to come back to aircraft (I like only aircraft as far as I am concerned, sorry...).
I love your 2nd Starfighter/Orenda proposal, so streamlined and pretty... :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia April 09, 2016, 04:34:25 AM
Thanks folks! And here's the next installment ...

Canadair CF-104 Starfighter Developments - Growing the Brand

Neither the 'Starfighter UOI' nor the 'Starfighter Strike' proposal appealed to the RCAF. At the same meeting, however, Canadair also proposed two 'growth' developments related to the 'Starfighter Strike'. Both were larger twin-engined aircraft with the inner, stub-wing growing into trapizoidal inner wings.

The first was another strike aircraft - the CL-205 - this time powered by twin unreheated Orenda Iroquois turbojets. This concept had a much-lengthened fuselage (resulting in the Canadair design office nickname of 'Caber'). Other than having more power than the 'Starfighter Strike', that longer fuselage of this 'UOI Strike' allowed the payload to be fully enclosed.

The second proposal - the CL-207 - was for a two-seat interceptor powered by twin reheated Rolls-Royce Spey turbofans. As with the 'UOI Strike', the armament was fully enclosed - in this case, in a retractable missile bay.

The RCAF was not interested in any engine types not yet in production. This eliminated the 'UOI Strike' for the same reasons as the 'Starfighter UOI' and the 'Starfighter Strike'. The enlarged interceptor concept was of interest but the newness of the Speys were of concern. Could, the RCAF planners wondered, those engines be replaced by the same J79-OEL-7 turbojets that were to power the CF-104 Starfighter?

The result was the Canadair CL-210 which, as the CF-111A Conquest, entered RCAF service in late 1965, replacing CF-101 Voodoos on loan from the USAF.

__________________________
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe April 09, 2016, 10:56:01 AM
Great!: that is a whole family!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Gingie April 10, 2016, 11:47:52 PM
I actually find it quite ugly:


Whereas the CC-129 Dakota radar trainer was able to maintain its svelte, fighter-like good looks  ;D

Tophe: Lots of 2-seat F-104 conversion trainers were made. My whif was supposed to be a 'lead-in' trainer ... that is, smaller, cheaper to operate, and more forgiving of trainee pilot error. The idea sprang from the 'widow-maker' reputations of the RCAF's CF-104 Starfighter - which had a loss rate amounting to nearly 40% of the Canadian fleet.


I swear something looking a lot like that has flown over my house twice today. Looks like its been fitted with turbo props and some kind of sensor tail boom. Older RCAF colours, but no military markings that were obvious. I will try and get a pic of it if it buzzes by here again.

Edit... well this is a small world story. Turns out its a mining research company, which twigged my memory - one of the moms at my kids' bus stop is one of their pilots. I'll have to ask if it was her flying around!

(http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/1/1/3/2690311.jpg)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: kerick April 11, 2016, 12:09:07 AM
Resembles a MAD boom. Were they looking for iron deposits?
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin April 11, 2016, 02:56:09 AM
Resembles a MAD boom. Were they looking for iron deposits?

Aeromagnetic surveys are used to locate all sorts of deposits.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Gingie April 11, 2016, 02:58:12 AM
Resembles a MAD boom. Were they looking for iron deposits?

I don't think so - more like training a new pilot, they were doing touch & goes it seemed. She lives nearby, maybe she was taking aerial photos of her house! haha!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: The Big Gimper April 11, 2016, 03:15:34 AM
Owner is: CGG AVIATION (CANADA) LIMITED.

(http://skiesmag.com/images/news/article_files//167489247862250.jpg)

This Basler BT-67 Surveyor, an ex-Douglas DC-3C owned by CGG Aviation (Canada) Limited of Ottawa, is shown here at Muskoka, Ont.’s Little Norway Memorial Airport on May 10, 2014. A recent Basler BT-67 conversion completed in 2012, the aircraft belongs to one of the world's largest geoscience companies. CGG provides geophysical survey services to the oil, gas and mineral sectors with a large fleet of aircraft and ships. Its Canadian air division includes a de Havilland Canada Dash 7, a CASA 212-CC50, a Diamond DA-42, three Cessna 208s, and a Cessna 404. Most of these were formerly operated by Fugro Aviation. In September 2012, CGG Veritas acquired Fugro’s Geoscience Division, assuming aircraft operations in January of 2013. 

I see the CASA 212-CC50 fly over several times a year.

Here is a brief video of ole needle nose:

! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpaEKYqK2RI#)

Details can be found here (http://C-GGSU Canadian Aircraft Registration Details).
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: The Big Gimper April 11, 2016, 03:23:11 AM
Resembles a MAD boom. Were they looking for iron deposits?

Aeromagnetic surveys are used to locate all sorts of deposits.

Actually they are looking for the excessively large fat pensions our politicians get after 5 years of doing nothing. Zippo. Zilch. Zero work.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin April 11, 2016, 03:28:08 AM
Great!: that is a whole family!

Maybe...but will we see a carrier based variant? ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Old Wombat April 11, 2016, 08:07:57 AM
They are, basically, MAD booms.

Because all metals, not just iron, cause small variations in the Earth's magnetic field they can be detected.
I doubt it can tell you what, but it can certainly tell you where there are large deposits of metals (ie: deposits large enough to mine economically).
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe April 11, 2016, 11:23:56 AM
Resembles a MAD boom. Were they looking for iron deposits?

Theys are, basically, MAD booms.

Thanks for your words, making me dream of a Twin-Lightning that would feature a MAD twin-boom device...! ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia May 09, 2016, 02:41:15 AM
"Swiftly and Surely" - 430 Squadron CA-164M Skyhawk taxis in at KAF, Dec 2008

This was going to be part of my Canadair series but I got side-tracked. Long story short, Canada's New Fighter Aircraft (NFA) Project plays out differently and the Hornet is not chosen.

Canadair parent company, General Dynamics, offers its F-16A Falcon for the NFA contest but also sweetens the pot. General Dynamics' scheme is to also have Canadair modernize Canada's small but aging fleet of ex-RCN CA-164F (A-4F) Skyhawk attack aircraft.

The modernized Skyhawk concept is to extend the fuselage to TA-4F length while inserting an F-16-style cockpit to maximize commonality. This plan is excepted and, as a result, Canada ends up fielding three combat jet types - the revised CA-164M Skyhawk attack aircraft, the CF-166 Falcon fighter, and the CF-160 Tornado (Tornado F3) interceptor.

: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin May 09, 2016, 03:41:46 AM
Nice!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Jeffry Fontaine May 09, 2016, 03:48:41 AM
^what he said!  :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia May 09, 2016, 09:39:32 AM
Thanks folks. My original plan was a little more complicated. Along with the F-16 cockpit, the CA-164M Skyhawk was to be re-engined with a Turbo-Union RB.199 Mk102 turbofan. (I assume there was a Real World Mk102 but I've never heard of one.)

My Mk102 would be a non-afterburning version of the Orenda-built RB.199 Mk103 in the CF-160A Tornado complete with the Tornado's reverse-thrust buckets. The RB.199 is smaller in diameter than the original J52 (28.3 in vs 38 in) so I was imagining Orenda's usual sheathing approach being adapted to directing cool air around the engine to reduce the CF-164M's IR signature.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe May 09, 2016, 02:34:55 PM
The F-16 cockpit gives a very modern look to the A-4, let me buy two dozens for a billion $...
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: finsrin May 09, 2016, 03:10:23 PM
The F-16 cockpit gives a very modern look to the A-4, let me buy two dozens for a billion $...

Yes, that cockpit change does modernize its look.  Good candidate to do in styrene !
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: lauhof52 May 10, 2016, 01:19:57 AM
Very nice one!!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: kerick May 10, 2016, 10:31:33 AM
I like this idea! Another for the "gonna do" list!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Brian da Basher May 11, 2016, 06:46:12 AM
It's just scary how right that Viper canopy etc. looks on a Skyhawk

That's some truly inspired genius!

Brian da Basher
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia May 12, 2016, 01:38:50 PM
Thanks folks!  :D
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin May 14, 2016, 05:15:19 AM
Reminds me a little of this one:

(http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p110/GTX_Christmas/Cutaway_Douglas_A4_Stealth_grande.jpg~original)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia May 23, 2016, 12:00:55 PM
Okay, that A-4X has to be done! But, meanwhile, you asked about a P-40 using same floats as the Spitfire seaplane:
http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=904.msg107940#msg107940 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=904.msg107940#msg107940)

I present the Curtiss AP-40B 'SeaHawk'

Below: A Curtiss AP-40B 'SeaHawk' of the 48th Fighter Group newly arrived at Guadalcanal in mid-October 1942. Deployed to cover the US Army's 164th Infantry Regiment, the AP-40Bs operated from floatplane tenders off the coast. Ironically, Guadalcanal 'SeaHawks' are best remembered for their participation in the Battle for Henderson Field.

The AP-40B was a quick adaptation of Curtiss P-40B airframes by the Edo Aircraft Corporation. The initial designation was PA-1 in a new USAAF 'Pursuit, Amphibian' category. However, before the prototype conversion had flown, the aircraft was redesignated AP-40B as an Amphibian sub-type of the P-40B pursuit.

The Army's first WW2 float-fighter unit had previously been the 48th Bombardment Group (Light). After conversion onto P-40s, the unit relocated to McChord Field in Washington State. Basic float training was undertaken at the nearby American Lake Seaplane Base with advanced training at the Seaplane Base at Naval Air Station Seattle (Sand Point).
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe May 23, 2016, 12:35:10 PM
Nice silhouette, very harmonious! :-*
I am not sure this is very efficient in dogfighting, but in dreams this is just perfect.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Old Wombat May 23, 2016, 12:44:19 PM
Maybe not as pretty as the floaty Spit but very funky! 8)

Like the Spit, a good short-order filler for a perceived need.

As a fan of the P-40, I really like the look of this. :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: jcf May 23, 2016, 01:06:36 PM
Cool, however as to basing, NAS Seattle at Sand Point would be more likely for training as the first Catalina to arrive
at the seaplane base at Whidbey didn't arrive until December 1942, and then it had to land out in the bay as the harbour
was choked with logs.

 :icon_fsm:
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe May 23, 2016, 11:43:00 PM
however as to basing, NAS Seattle at Sand Point would be more likely for training as the first Catalina to arrive
at the seaplane base at Whidbey didn't arrive until December 1942
it depends in which universe you live, in my dreams the date of arrival at Whidbey is 2042... ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: jcf May 24, 2016, 12:27:47 AM
however as to basing, NAS Seattle at Sand Point would be more likely for training as the first Catalina to arrive
at the seaplane base at Whidbey didn't arrive until December 1942
it depends in which universe you live, in my dreams the date of arrival at Whidbey is 2042... ;)

I'll have a drive up (it's about a 90 minute drive north of me) in 26 years and let you know if a Catalina arrives.  ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin May 24, 2016, 04:54:26 AM
Love the AP-40B 'SeaHawk' - now do a later model one based on the longer fuselage P-40N / Kittyhawk Mk IV.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia May 24, 2016, 09:41:52 AM
Cool, however as to basing, NAS Seattle at Sand Point would be more likely for training as the first Catalina to arrive
at the seaplane base at Whidbey didn't arrive until December 1942, and then it had to land out in the bay as the harbour
was choked with logs.

Changed! Thanks Jon. Good to get the timeline right ... and best to avoid the log sorts and Davis Rafts  ;)

Love the AP-40B 'SeaHawk' - now do a later model one based on the longer fuselage P-40N / Kittyhawk Mk IV.

I was considering an AP-40E for the final phase of the Aleutians campaign ...  :D
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia May 31, 2016, 11:16:21 AM
As promised, the Curtiss AP-40E 'SeaHawk' for the Aleutians.

The Curtiss AP-40E used the Hawk 87A airframe (in place of the AP-40B's Hawk 81). Compared with the earlier SeaHawk, the AP-40E adaptation featured a number of major changes.

The Edo floats were essentially the same but the float pylons were shortened (reflecting the higher thrustline of the Allison V-1710-39 powerplant. The revised pylons also incorporated the engine coolant radiators (the AP-40B's undernose radiator 'scoop' having had a tendency to collect sea water on take-off runs). The AP-40E's oil cooler remained under the nose (but was moved back to fair into the wing centre-section leading edge).

Another change was in tail assembly. The AP-40's ventral fin provided the needed side area but could also slow take-off runs should it 'dig in' to choppy seas. Accordingly, the AP-40E abandoned the ventral fin approach in favour of an extended tail. This provided sufficient side
area and employed standard P-40E vertical fin and rudder surfaces.

The AP-40E was considered a success but never fought outside of the Aleutian campaign. Opportunities for aerial victories were rare although there were confirmed kills of two Japanese Mitsubishi A6M2-N Rufe floatfighters over Attu Island. Mostly the AP-40Es were used in the close support role. After the retaking of Kiska Island, the 'E model SeaHawks provided aerial defence of the Aleutians until mid-1944 when they were finally withdrawn from service.


: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe May 31, 2016, 11:25:59 AM
VERY Beautiful!  :-*

The AP-40E's oil cooler remained under the nose (but was moved back to fair into the wing centre-section leading edge).
Yes, the new nose makes the difference, with enhanced beauty, thanks!

Another change was in tail assembly. The AP-40's ventral fin provided the needed side area but could also slow take-off runs should it 'dig in' to choppy seas. Accordingly, the AP-40E abandoned the ventral fin approach in favour of an extended tail. This provided sufficient side area and employed standard P-40E vertical fin and rudder surfaces.
I noticed this difference at first glance, and your explanation is good, thanks!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: elmayerle May 31, 2016, 11:33:56 AM
Very nice, extended rear fuselage as on the late P-40F's and the P-40L and P-40M?  I wonder if one of these trialed the vertical stabilizer fillet that appeared on the P-40K?
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Old Wombat May 31, 2016, 12:07:54 PM
Nice one, mate! :)

Sensible conversion but I miss the big chin. :icon_crap:
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin June 01, 2016, 02:15:36 AM
Love the AP-40E :-*

Any chance of some RAAF ones?
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe June 01, 2016, 11:01:29 AM
but I miss the big chin.
So different feelings... (The big chin removal was the very reason of my loving this profile)... :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia June 02, 2016, 07:40:52 AM
Thanks folks!

Any chance of some RAAF ones?

Sorry Greg ... the Curtiss AP-40E never served outside of the Aleutians. The next best thing would by the RAAF's Kittyhawk F.Mk IIIP (P for Pontoon). Based on the P-40N-5-CU Warhawk airframe, the Kittyhawk IIIP was otherwise similar to the earlier AP-40E SeaHawk.

Australian service came about when the RAAF concluded that it would require a float-fighter for use in New Guinea. The USAAF was set to receive a dozen AP-40N-5-ED SeaHawks but was more than happy to relinquished them after the end of the Aleutian campaign. The RAAF Kittyhawk IIIPs deployed to New Guinea with No. 88 Squadron (as part of No. 9 Operational Group). The first 'FloatHawk' missions were air support operations flown towards the end of the Huon Peninsula campaign.

Shown here is the first Kittyhawk IIIP after assembly at Aircraft Erection Depot Townsville. The aircraft was test-flown from the Platypus Channel Eastern Breakwater Pier before being delivered to the RAAF in late Sept 1943.

Old Wombat: Apologies, still no sea-scooper nose ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe June 02, 2016, 11:20:45 AM
Beautiful also on the P-40N basis! :-*
Thanks for this aesthetic surgery turning ugly ones into beauties... ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: lauhof52 June 02, 2016, 07:30:29 PM
excellent work!!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: AXOR June 02, 2016, 08:07:54 PM
A lot of interesting works here,
I really like the metal fatique impression and the texture.Nicely done!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Old Wombat June 02, 2016, 11:15:34 PM
Old Wombat: Apologies, still no sea-scooper nose ;)

No need to apologise, I understand the logic of it completely.

I just happen to prefer the aggressive look of the jutting, macho chin of the P-40 rather than the wimpy, hand-wringing clerical look of the chinless AP-40.

;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin June 04, 2016, 05:01:54 AM
 :) :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin June 04, 2016, 05:11:39 AM
Hmmm...maybe some floatplane P-40s could make it into civilian schemes for the post war revival of the Schneider Trophy (Non Military GB Suggestion)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe June 04, 2016, 12:06:14 PM
maybe some floatplane P-40s could make it into civilian schemes for the post war revival of the Schneider Trophy (Non Military GB Suggestion)
And maybe the winner is here! (of the Scheider Trophy II and/or the Non-Military GB) ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Volkodav June 04, 2016, 02:31:49 PM
Hmmm...maybe some floatplane P-40s could make it into civilian schemes for the post war revival of the Schneider Trophy (Non Military GB Suggestion)

That almost sound like a future GB, Post War Schneider Trophy competition, maybe with different classes, sprint, long range, light and heavy.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Brian da Basher June 04, 2016, 09:29:43 PM
I really like your P-40 Sea Hawk permutations, Apophenia! The first one is especially nice and the "modernization" done to the second one is eminently creditable!

Great stuff for this P-40 fan!

Brian da Basher
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin June 05, 2016, 04:03:49 AM
Hmmm...maybe some floatplane P-40s could make it into civilian schemes for the post war revival of the Schneider Trophy (Non Military GB Suggestion)

That almost sound like a future GB, Post War Schneider Trophy competition, maybe with different classes, sprint, long range, light and heavy.

Racing GB which includes such ideas has been suggested a number of times but never gets up.  There should be no reason why they couldn't fit into the current Non-military GB though.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia June 05, 2016, 04:44:44 AM
Thanks folks. Hmmm, post-WW2 Schneider Trophy ... gotta do something for that!

Origins of the AP-40 SeaHawk Float Fighters

The idea of Curtiss Hawk monoplanes on floats originated with the Seahawk II [1] concept. In early 1937, Curtiss proposed an export Model 75 Hawk on Seagull float gear. Designated Model 75HP and aimed at sales to China, this proposal was dubbed the 'Yangtze Hawk'.

The 'Yangtze Hawk' was to be powered by a Curtiss-Wright  GR-1820-G3 rated at 875 hp for take-off, and 840 hp at 5,500 feet. Standard undercarriage would be a single main pontoon and twin wingtip floats. Alternatively, fixed, spatted main legs and a fixed tailwheel could replace the float gear.

Due to the structural complexities of the all-metal Hawk 75, it was assumed that Curtiss would build these aircraft with final assembly undertaken by CAMCO in Nanking. Unfortunately, China did not take up the Model 75HP concept (although it did proceed with the Model 75M land fighter).

Seahawk II

The Model 75HP concept with Seagull float gear was eclipsed by a simplied approach - the Hawk Model 75P on twin Edo floats. This new design was intended as a biplane Hawk II replacement for the Colombian Air Force with possible sales to Siam as well. In the end, a single Model 75P was flown but no orders for this Hawk float-fighter appeared (the Model 75P was later converted into the more powerful Model 75Q land fighter demonstrator).
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin June 05, 2016, 05:00:18 AM
 :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: AXOR June 05, 2016, 06:28:32 AM
Mmmm it looks so natural...lovely  :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: dy031101 June 05, 2016, 08:51:07 AM
Love the Seahawk ideas  :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Geist June 06, 2016, 04:45:31 AM
 :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia June 06, 2016, 06:39:34 AM
Thanks folks! And now for something completely different ...

The sad saga of the inline-engined Brewster XF3A-1

Over on Secret Projects, there has been some speculation about an "Allison-powered Brewster Buffalo". http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,27047.0.html (http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,27047.0.html)

This V-1710-powered 'Buffalo' was, of course, Brewster Aeronautical Corporation's P.22A project. Less well-known is that a P.22A prototype (of sorts) was actually completed and flown in April 1939.

Now, a photograph of the P.22A has emerged from the Smithsonian NASM Archives' Dayton T. Brown Collection (Series 2). The photo shows the P.22A - or XF3A-1 as it is marked - at the Roosevelt Field final assembly facility in late March 1939.

The aircraft was designated XF3A-1 because, in reality, the airframe was the prototype XF2A-1 (451) returned to Brewster on loan from the US Navy. To Brewster Aeronautical, the realized P.22A project was the Brewster Model 139V (presumably 'V' for V-12 engine). Detail design on the Allison conversion was performed by Raymond D. MacCart.

Despite considerable rearrangement of internal equipment, the XF3A-1 was noticeably nose-heavy and, in consequence, manoeuvrabilty was poor compared with the in-service F2A-1. When testing was cancelled, the XF3A-1 was scheduled to be rebuilt to F2A-2 standards. That never happened. By then, events had overtaken the portly Brewster fighter and, stripped of its powerplant, the sole XF3A-1 languished at Brewster's Newark, NJ hangar until 1942 when it was scrapped.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe June 06, 2016, 11:10:40 AM
Thanks for revealing us this beauty! :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: elmayerle June 06, 2016, 12:03:02 PM
Pretty!  You'd really need to extend the tail aft to get it back into balance, with respect to both cg and aerodynamic balance.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin June 07, 2016, 03:37:50 AM
Oh you could fool people with that 'photo' ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia June 09, 2016, 04:55:55 AM
Oh you could fool people with that 'photo' ;)

I'm relying on the rivet-counters to notice that the Allison's prop is turning the wrong way  ;)

Evan: Too true. Of course, Brewster Aeronautical already knew that they'd face balance problems. The XF2A-1 prototype was available for conversion to  Allison V-1710 because of an earlier mishap.

In late 1938, the US Navy had loaned the XF2A-1 back to Brewster for experimental purposes. Brewster re-engined the XF2A-1 with a 1,050 hp Pratt & Whitney R-1830-66 Twin Wasp. The goal was to test concepts for Brewster's P-24 project. To that end, the Twin Wasp was given with an extension shaft and fitted with an aerodynamically-clean ducted cowling.

Attached is the only known photograph of the revised XF2A-1 in flight. That test flight was very brief as engine temperatures soared due to the cooling inefficiencies of the radial cowling design. The engine failed completely as test pilot, Ralph Romaine, circled to return to Roosevelt Field.

During a dead-stick landing, the aerodynamic advantages of the new cowling turned into something of a liability. Gliding in faster than anticipated, Romaine landed long and had to hit his wheel brakes. The now-nose-heavy XF2A-1 immediately tipped up onto its spinner. The impact damaged the engine mounts, broke the engine crankshaft , and ruined the propeller.

After this fiasco, Brewster quietly abandoned its proposed P-24 project. The damaged XF2A-1 was supposed to be rebuilt for the US Navy but Brewster had higher priorities in productionizing the F2A-2. In the end, as we know, the engineless XF2A-1 would be rebuilt as the Allison-powered XF3A-1.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia June 09, 2016, 10:16:53 AM
Apparently, Dayton T. Brown redesigned the XSBA-1, first as a 2-seat fighter, then as a single-seat fighter. This predated Brown'ss design of the XF2A. No clue what those SBA designs would have actually looked like, but here's my take on the single-seater -- the XSA-1. [1]

Mine is probably a bit more conservative than what Brown had in mind. I have assumed a common design that could be readily produced in either configuration - basically, the single-seat having the rear cockpit paneled over. Brown was considering a single-seat version fitted with a "semi-bubble canopy".

Again, I have no idea of what such a canopy would have looked like. Maybe something akin to the
Gloster F.5/34? Or maybe something more like the slightly later Grumman G-34/XF5F-1 Skyrocket?
________________________

[1] The US Navy 'S' for Scout designation was short-lived ... but seemed appropriate for a potential 1-/2-seat shipboard fighter. AFAIK, the Grumman SF-1 Fifi variant was the only aircraft to have the plain Scout designation applied.
________________________
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe June 09, 2016, 11:28:05 AM
Thanks for all this! It is so uncommon, is this all Photoshop dreams of nowadays? or unknown archives of that time?
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: AXOR June 10, 2016, 03:08:19 AM
 :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia June 11, 2016, 12:18:31 PM
Thanks for all this! It is so uncommon, is this all Photoshop dreams of nowadays? or unknown archives of that time?

Tophe: All strictly unknown archive material from that time. What is this "Photoshop" you speak of?  ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia June 11, 2016, 12:20:11 PM

Dayton Brown saw potential in the Brewster Model 139 as the basis for a lightweight fighter. This Project 24 concept was explored with the US Navy's Bureau of Aeronautics but the BuAer saw no real role for lightweight shipboard fighters.

Brown then more fully fleshed-out his P-24 lightweight fighter notion as a potential export product. The idea behind what became the Brewster Model  was to re-use the Brewster Model 139 wings and empennage largely unchanged. A new, slimmer fuselage would be tailored to the new Ranger V-770 air-cooled V-12 engine. With supercharging, the Ranger-powered fighter was expected to acheive 340 hp at altitude.

The first nibble of interest came from the French Purchasing Commission who saw the lightweight Brewster as a back-up to their Caudron C.714 Cyclone. The project kicked into high gear when it was decided to power the fighter with the French Renault 12R engine instead of the delayed US Ranger powerplant.

The Brewster Model 424A Bruant (Bunting) - was to be armed with two (or four) 7.5mm MAC 1934 guns in the wings and twin synchronized 20mm Hispano-Suiza cannons. Armament and engines would be installed upon arrival at French Bases de stockage. As it happens, France fell before the prototype P-24 was even completed.

In the meantime, Ray MacCart had been implementing NACA suggestions to reduce drag on the F2A. The result was the XF2A-5 which featured Brown's 'semi-bubble' canopy and a 'cleaned up' airframe. Most noticeable was a longer cowling to accommodate fan-cooling for the Cyclone radial. Great attention was paid to the smooth abutment of skin panels and the wheelwells were faired.

The XF2A-5 did everything that was expected of it. Unfortunately for Brewster Aeronautical, XF2A-5 performance was still judged inferior to that of the Grumman F4F-4 Wildcat and no order for 'Super Buffalo' production was received.

____________________________________________
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin June 12, 2016, 03:35:57 AM
 :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe June 12, 2016, 12:44:06 PM
Thanks for all this! It is so uncommon, is this all Photoshop dreams of nowadays? or unknown archives of that time?
Tophe: All strictly unknown archive material from that time. What is this "Photoshop" you speak of?  ;)
Ahem, this looks like counter-smile ??? , and I still don't know if this is archives or dream (I refuse the negative word "fake"). Anyway I love your profile of streamlined Buffalo :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Brian da Basher June 13, 2016, 02:02:11 AM
Wow you've been creating some amazing wonders, Apophenia!

Your Seahawk II in that fetching NMF is stunning and I really like your latest Brewster concepts too.

I'm bowled over by the knowledge behind these delightful works and wondering why it never occurred to me before to put an Allison on a Buffalo. That is absolute genius in my book!

Brian da Basher
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Geist June 13, 2016, 07:29:03 AM
Nice profiles ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia June 13, 2016, 09:09:03 AM
Thanks folks.

Brian: Putting an Allison in the Buffalo was great fun as a whif. I'm just stunned that Brewster actually consider the idea for real!

... wondering why it never occurred to me before to put an Allison on a Buffalo.

A 'Super Buffalo' into Service

A variation on the 424A Bruant light fighter for the French was the Brewster Model 424G (P-24G) Brétailleur (Duelist). Using Bruant wings and empennage, the Brétailleur was to have a more corpulent fuselage to accommodate a Gnome-Rhône 14M Mars twin-row radial engine. A further develpment was the P-24N with a larger-diameter Gnome-Rhône 14N. That concept led to the Twin Wasp-powered P-28/F4A Brigand shipboard fighter prototype.

The XF4A-1 was a light fighter only by American standards. The XF4A-1 could be seen as an evolution of the XF2A-5 concept. As with the XF2A-5, the XF4A-1's engine was fitted with an extension shaft. In the case of the XF4A-1, the R-1830 was fan-cooled. To counter the weight of the Twin Wasp and its cooling fan, the rear fuselage was extended.

Compared with the XF2A-5, the XF4A-1 was a great success but it lacked the performance edge to be the 'Zero Killer' that Dayton T. Brown had been counting on. Pax River Navy test pilots were also critical of control and visibility on simulated carrier approaches. More work was needed.

The XF4A-2 incorporated a sliding bubble canopy to improve visibility but, if anything, this worsened slow-speed control. This prototype was reworked as the XF4A-3 with a revised rear fuselage and a completely new empennage. The Buffalo-style tailfin and rudder was abandoned in favour of a taller unit reminiscent of that used on the production SBN divebombers.

The F4A-3 was ordered into production for the US Navy but Brewster Aeronautical was very slow in delivering completed airframes and workmanship was often poor. In the event, almost all of the Brigands went to Marine Corps squadrons in the Pacific.

Shown here are the XF4A-1 prototype and an F4A-3A Brigand which replaced the F2A-3s of VMF-222.

: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe June 13, 2016, 11:14:16 AM
The bubble-Buffallo is cute! like an elegant pig lady... ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Jeffry Fontaine June 13, 2016, 11:53:06 AM
Really liking this Brewster concept. 
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Brian da Basher June 13, 2016, 04:43:19 PM
That bubble-top Brewster is a real stunner!

You hit on one of my favorite whiff methods - adding an updated canopy to an old favorite. You've done it much more artistically than I ever could and I bet if you showed people this picture, they'd think it was a real aircraft!

Using the name Brigand was a very nice touch and fits this baby to a T!

Most excellent, Apophenia!

Brian da Basher
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: AXOR June 13, 2016, 05:50:10 PM
Well, this is  really interesting and look soooo good !  :-* good job !
l took the liberty to make a small change,I hope you don't mind.

Alex

: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin June 14, 2016, 03:13:52 AM
Love the bubble canopy one.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: jcf June 14, 2016, 03:39:37 AM
Next you could try stretching the rear fuselage so it looks more like the Boeing Model 278A/XP-32.  ;)

(http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww291/joncarrfarrelly/BTS/278A_XP-32_01.png)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia June 14, 2016, 03:50:20 AM
The bubble-Buffallo is cute! like an elegant pig lady... ;)

And who could ask for a greater compliment than that!  ;D

Brewster Aeronautical and the Corsair

With no suitable replacement for the F4A Brigand in the offing, Brewster Aeronautical was assigned licensed-production of the Vought Corsair. Cockpit visibility from the early-model F4U-1 was poor due to its 'birdcage' canopy design. Brewster's 'fix' was to adapt the bubble canopy from the F4A to the Corsair. The result was the F5A-1. Brewster referred to this fighter as the Battler but, invariably, it was dubbed the 'bubble-top' Corsair.

Another flaw in the Corsair design was that its reverse-gulled wings caused the aircraft to 'float' while trying to land-on. Dayton Brown saw an opportunity here and began a more extensive redesign of the Corsair. While F5A-1 production was beginning, Brewster design staff began 'rearranging' Corsair components.

The big change was adapting the Corsair fuselage to the 'uncranked' wings of the SB2A divebomber. Only the outer main  panels of the wings were used, with the main undercarriage wheels modified to retract into the fuselage. The fuselage itself was also heavily revised. The entire cockpit was moved forward and was now bracketed by fuel tanks. The forward tank was a shortened F4U unit, the rear tank formed the supports for the pilots seat and cockpit floor.

A prototype of this fighter - the XF6A-1 Bruiser - was built and flown to the Naval Air Test Center at NAS Patuxent River. NATC test pilots were very appreciative of the changes made and recommended that production of the F6A Bruiser be made a priority. NATC was overruled by  the Bureau of Aeronautics - the BuAer believing that the US Navy's shipboard fighter needs could be met with the Grumman F6F Hellcat - and the prototype XF6A-1 was the sole Bruiser flown.

___________________________

BTW: The 'bubble-top' Corsair and XF6A-1 Bruiser began life as an excellent F4U profile by Thomas Tullis.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia June 14, 2016, 03:52:16 AM
Many thanks for the Boeing Model 278A/XP-32, Jon.  It really does look like the spawn of a Buffalo and a Peashooter!  :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: jcf June 14, 2016, 04:02:04 AM
Many thanks for the Boeing Model 278A/XP-32, Jon.  It really does look like the spawn of a Buffalo and a Peashooter!  :)

Yep, and ya gotta love the the horizontal tail-surfaces plan-view, very 247, early 299.  ;D
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia June 14, 2016, 10:18:58 AM
While building the 'bubble-top' F5A-1, Dayton Brown's thoughts turned to a 2-seat trainer version of this demanding fighter. The redesign simply places a student pilot's cockpit in the position of the main fuel tank. Endurance would be greatly reduced but this was though acceptable since the aircraft could carry a drop tank for extra fuel.

To conserve engine stocks for combat types, the F5A-1's R-2800-10W engine was replaced with a lighter and lower-powered P&W R-1830-90 radial with a single-stage supercharger. The rear cockpit of this FNA-1 'Corsair Trainer' remained identical to that of the F5A-1. One prototype conversion of the XFNA-1 was created from components of two damaged F5A-1s. The Navy saw the utility of such a fighter-trainer but would not give Brewster an order. On 19 May 1944, the Navy cancelled Brewster's Corsair contract and took control of both Brewster facilities for the duration of the war.

In October 1945, Brewster Aeronautical regained control over its factories. To satisfy debts, the Long Island facility was sold off. The Johnsville, Pennsylvania plant was largely converted to civilian, non-aviation related activities. But Brewster, had one final kick at the aviation can. Stockpiles of Corsair parts were available both at the Johnsville plant and through surplus sales. The firm decided to pursue its FNA-1 concept as a direct Corsair conversion program.

The result was a 'Corsair Trainer' with the full power of the F4U's P&W R-2800 engine. The US Navy agreed to have two batches of stored F5A-2s and F5A-3s rebuilt as FN2A-1 2-seaters. The contract was predicated upon fulltime in-factory Navy inspectors and substantial fines for delayed re-delivery of completed airframes. All 32 FN2A-1s on ordered were delivered to the Navy by the end of 1948. The 'Corsair Trainers' proved most useful during the Korean conflict when they were used to 'refresh' returning veteran pilots. By then, the FN2A-1 trainers had been redesignated as TF5A-2s and TF5A-3s.

Shown are the XFNA-1 'Corsair Trainer' prototype in April 1944 and a TF5A-3 of VFATU-2, an Operational Flight Training Squadron based at Cabanas Field, TX, in early 1953.

: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe June 14, 2016, 11:06:49 AM
 :-* Lovely bubble-trainer Corsairs! Thanks for dreaming/drawing/painting this way!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia June 14, 2016, 11:31:57 AM
KiwiZac mentioned a backstory for a tricycle geared Supermarine Attacker. I have no such backstory but 'Zac's concept put me in mind of a straight-winged Swift.
http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=3359.msg109710#msg109710 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=3359.msg109710#msg109710)

So, here it is: the Attacker Trike. I based the images on the Czech Master Resin kit box (with artwork done by Juanita Franzi ... I think).
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Empty Handed June 14, 2016, 04:28:19 PM
That was quite a ride! Was going to say how great the F4A-3 was until the Corsairs came along but then that Supermarine......  :-* :-* :-* :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: phoenix54 June 15, 2016, 03:57:18 AM
KiwiZac mentioned a backstory for a tricycle geared Supermarine Attacker. I have no such backstory but 'Zac's concept put me in mind of a straight-winged Swift.
[url]http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=3359.msg109710#msg109710[/url] ([url]http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=3359.msg109710#msg109710[/url])

So, here it is: the Attacker Trike. I based the images on the Czech Master Resin kit box (with artwork done by Juanita Franzi ... I think).


Cracker! No more scorched decks!!!!   ;D
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia June 16, 2016, 10:52:17 AM

Britain's Fleet Air Arm went to war with biplane torpedo bombers - the venerable Fairey Swordfish and the conceptually obsolescent Fairey Albacore. The attack on Pearl Harbor revealed an urgent need for more modern torpedo bombers for the Fleet Air Arm in the Pacific and Indian oceans.

To speed development of the new torpedo bomber, existing components were to be combined. The fuselage of the Albacore would be mated to the wings of Fairey's monoplane Battle light bomber. The result was the Fairey Amberjack Mk.I. [1]

Performance of the Amberjack Mk.I was roughly equivalent to the US Navy's Douglas TBD and the Japanese Nakajima B5N 'Kate'. The Bristol Taurus-powered Amberjack Mk.I and projected Mk.II (with P&W Twin Wasp) were considered interim types. The 'final' Amberjack Mk.III - to be powered by a Bristol Hercules - was to be brought into production as soon as possible.

The availability of US Grumman Avengers made the Amberjack Mk.III redundant (and allowed Fairey to concentrate of developing the more modern Barracuda and Firefly types). The Royal Navy's Amberjack Mk.Is served out their time on patrol in the Indian Ocean. At one stage, consideration was given to 'unshipping' Amberjacks in Australia for use as 'Kawakawa' [2] trainers, simulating 'Kates'. That never happened. Instead, the Amberjacks finished their was as land-based patrol aircraft operating from Ceylon.

___________________________

[1] The name was a continuation of the Albacore's tuna theme. Amberjack - aka Southern Kingfish - is a tuna found in the Pacific and Indian oceans (from British Columbia to South Africa, and from Australia to Japan).

[2] Kawakawa is the Japanese name for the mackerel tuna (Euthynnus affinis).

___________________________
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe June 16, 2016, 11:18:32 AM
Is the Amberjack a 3-seat airplane?
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Old Wombat June 16, 2016, 11:31:10 AM
We were going to use a Japanese name for an aircraft? :icon_surprised:

I don't think so! Not even for dissimilar training purposes. Australians despised the Japanese during the war because of reported atrocities & that became even worse afterwards, when they learned of the actual scale of what had happened to PoW's. That hatred didn't start dying down until the 1970's & 80's.

The name alone could be a reason the Australians didn't let that happen.

Perhaps there would have been a better chance with a common English name, like Bluefin? ???


Nice design, though! :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Volkodav June 16, 2016, 02:35:47 PM
My great uncle used to upset a few veterans for not hating the Japanese.  Some of them, who had never left Australia, would be carrying on about the atrocities etc. as an excuse for their racism into the 70s and 80s, wouldn't buy Japanese cars or electronics, some wouldn't even eat rice because it was all the prisoners of the Japanese had been fed.  Then there was uncle Albert, he didn't hate them or resent them even tough he had been captured at the fall of Singapore and spent the rest of the war in Changi.  His only regret was not being in New Guinea where he had extensive local knowledge that would have aided in the defence.  Anyway, his take on things were the Japanese were just doing what they were told and if they refused they would have been killed themselves, the really bad ones were prosecuted and punished anyway and if he hadn't have had rice to eat he would have died.  No reason to hate a whole people for things most of them would never willing have done, better to forgive and make sure there was no reason for it to happen again. 

Love the concept, looks great and could really imagine it lined up on deck next to Fulmars and Sea Hurricanes or Martlets.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia June 18, 2016, 03:27:48 AM
The name alone could be a reason the Australians didn't let that happen.

I see your point. I was thinking less of a moniker and more of a codename. It occurs to me, belatedly, that such a codename would more likely be a short female name ... akin to Kate, Judy, etc. I guess I caught a little too caught up in tuna names  ???
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Old Wombat June 19, 2016, 12:48:31 AM
I don't know if there is a word for tuna in any Aboriginal dialect but, if you find any, that's the most likely name that Australians would give it. :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin June 19, 2016, 07:57:10 AM
Some options based upon above:

Dilgara - Small King-fish
Gowdalie - Fishing spear
Kanyinuk - Kingfisher
Mirree - Kingfish
Noorigoo - Kingfisher
Perina - Kingfisher

The Kingfish variants match relative closely with Albacore or Amberjack given all are relatively sizeable fish.
The Kingfisher variants work if you want to play off the hunters of fish (i.e. ships) aspect.  The Finshing Spear also works in this regard.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia June 21, 2016, 01:53:53 AM
Ooo ... Mirree fits the short codename angle but I really like Gowdalie  :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia June 28, 2016, 11:20:14 AM
Inspired - appropriately enough - by this Ideas & Inspiration post:
http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=147.msg2025#msg2025 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=147.msg2025#msg2025)

Vickers Valiant K.2

The Vickers Valiants were withdrawal from RAF service in Dec 1964 due to severe metal fatigue in the main wing spars. Valiant B(PR).1s were replaced by Victor B.2s converted to Victor SR.2 standard. Most critical was the retirement of the Valiant B(PR)K.1 tankers which left the RAF with no front-line in-flight refuelling aircraft.

One proposal was to convert surplus Victor B.1A bombers to B(K).1A tanker standard. But that would require the RAF to retain the Armstrong Siddeley Sapphire turbojet in service for this one aircraft type. The British Aircraft Corporation counter-proposal had the advantage of employing more modern turbofans already in service with the Victor B.2 and VC10 - the Rolls-Royce Conway.

The BAC proposal was accepted and, as the Valiant B(PR)K.1s were phased out our service, they were returned to their manufacturer for extensive rebuilds. Wings were 'plucked' of control surfaces and systems to be installed in wings of an entirely new design. The main undercarriage was also reused - albeit, heavily modified so that the gear now retracted inward.

The Valiant's original 'buried' powerplant approach was abandoned in favour of four separate pylons for podded engines. This arrangement produced more drag but, even in their derated form, the new Conway turbofans produced almost twice as much power as the original Rolls-Royce Avon RA28 Mk 204 turbojets. Thus rebuilt, the first Valiant K.2 re-entered RAF service in March 1966 - serving with 90 Squadron at RAF Honington and 214 Squadron at RAF Marham.

With their new wings (employing a stronger alloy) and freed from the strains of low-level bombing flights, the Valiant K.2s would prove both durable and reliable. The Valiant K.2 performed sterling service during the Falklands War. The sturdy Valiant K.2s were finally retired in October 1993. The Valiants were replaced by 757 K.1s (ex-British Airways Boeing 757-200s converted for IFR).
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Volkodav June 28, 2016, 09:09:18 PM
Nice, that just looks so right
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin June 29, 2016, 03:37:24 AM
Outstanding!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Jeffry Fontaine June 30, 2016, 05:08:49 AM
Definitely a winning idea.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia June 30, 2016, 11:06:11 AM
Thanks folks! This one's not really a whif ... except maybe for the Austrian markings?

This is an attempt at the Saab AJ 35 Draken 35 MOD level 4 upgrade. Compared with a standard Draken, the new dog-toothed outer wings have a 1 metre more span. (here, an Apparat 15, Enhet B ECM pod is shown on the wing tip). The vertical fin is extended (ŕ la the late JA 37 Viggens) and new, flip-out 'moustache' foreplanes are fitted.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe June 30, 2016, 11:57:35 AM
interesting... thanks!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin July 01, 2016, 02:51:51 AM
 :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia July 01, 2016, 06:54:20 AM
Thanks guys. This time, a full whif on the Draken ...

The Swedish AF's Draken 35 MOD level 4 upgrade was never completed. Instead, the best J 35F airframes were rebuilt as AJ 35J attack aircraft. Other 'F model Drakens were set aside for more extensive rebuilds.

The 66 J 35M Draken 2 was intended to bolster numbers of JA 37 Viggen fighters. The Draken 2s received new forward fuselages similar to that of the Viggen - including the JA 37's larger diameter Ericsson PS 46/A radar. Small, fixed foreplanes were also fitted.

The related 'AJ 38' program considered extensive modifications of surplus J 35F airframes for the strike and tactical recce roles. In contrast with the J 35M, the 'AJ 38' was to retain the standard J 37F nose (other than adopting the J 35M's canard surfaces). The rear fuselage was to be a adapted for the installation of a Turbo-Union RB199 Mk 104 turbofan engine.

Two schemes were considered for thrust reversing the RB199 engine. One approach involved scaling the arrangement used on the Viggen's Volvo RM8. A second concept simply turned the thrust reverser from the Panavia Tornado on its side. In the end, the 'AJ 38' scheme was abandoned as too complex and expensive for the structural life remaining in the J 35F airframes.

: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: AXOR July 02, 2016, 02:26:33 AM
Lovely  :-* It looks so natural !
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Jeffry Fontaine July 02, 2016, 02:46:02 AM
The larger canopy and windscreen on your J35M looks ideal and is certainly an improvement over the original J35 canopy/windscreen as originally built. 
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia July 03, 2016, 11:49:43 AM
Thanks folks.

Jeffry: I was originally playing with just a new canopy on the Draken. Raising the cockpit worked better ... so, I thought why not go with the Viggen radar too?

The next was prompted by discussions of turbo/no turbo for the P-47 in the Ideas and Inspiration section. I thought it would cleaner and meaner without. Now I thinking that a turboless Thunderbolt just look a bit malnourished  ???
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Old Wombat July 03, 2016, 03:12:01 PM
Much sleeker, though! ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe July 03, 2016, 04:33:06 PM
Thanks for your aesthetic surgery on the ugly Mrs Thunderbolt... :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin July 03, 2016, 05:20:24 PM
Interesting
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: The Big Gimper July 03, 2016, 08:25:25 PM
It is a love child between a Sea Fury and a regular Thunderbolt. Hmmm ......
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia July 04, 2016, 05:41:00 AM
Thanks folks!

It is a love child between a Sea Fury and a regular Thunderbolt. Hmmm ......

TBG: It took me a couple of steps to arrive at the same conclusion. At first, I was puzzled as to why it looked like an anemic Tempest Mk.II. My second thought was that it needed the full Fury treatment.

So, a new, shorter fuselage was devised which repositions the cockpit and eliminates the wing centre-section. Instead of bolting to the fuselage side, the wing panels now join on the centreline.

The inboard machine guns are removed (they wouldn't clear the prop anymore), reducing fixed armament to six .50-cals. Obviously, the centreline rack is also eliminated. The upsides would be in the weight loss - the GE turbo-supercharger and its ducting is dumped, plus the fuselage structure is reduced. As well as being lighter, the resulting 'Mini-Bolt' would also be more manoeuvrable at low altitude.

(BTW: I forgot to mention that I based my original turboless Tbolt on a mélange of Gaetan Marie's P-47B and P-47C profiles.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Old Wombat July 04, 2016, 10:09:44 AM
Thunderchild? ???


Put a hook on her & you get Seabolt ... ::)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: jcf July 04, 2016, 02:01:01 PM
Looks wrong because it no longer looks like member of it's Seversky/Republic P-35/P-41/P-43 design lineage, the T-Bolt wasn't thick because of the Turbo, it got the Turbo for the same reason it's P-43 predecessor got the Turbo - fuselage volume inherent to the
basic Kartveli design.
Also remember the deep belly under the wing of the P-47D was a fairing to cover the belly tank plumbing and attachments that was added during C production.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin July 04, 2016, 02:49:04 PM
I seem to remember someone modelling one like this a while back...
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe July 04, 2016, 11:11:47 PM
Looks wrong because it no longer looks like member of it's Seversky/Republic P-35/P-41/P-43 design lineage, the T-Bolt wasn't thick because of the Turbo, it got the Turbo for the same reason it's P-43 predecessor got the Turbo - fuselage volume inherent to the
basic Kartveli design.
Also remember the deep belly under the wing of the P-47D was a fairing to cover the belly tank plumbing and attachments that was added during C production.
I disagree: it looks right because dreamers don't care much of such practical details... ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia July 12, 2016, 08:10:45 AM
Thanks for the feedback folks!

Jon: I see where you're coming from with the P-43 but I'm not sure that I agree on all Kartvelli designs. In general outline, Jackie Cochrane's Seversky AP-7A isn't so different from the Sea Fury-ized T'bolt.

I'm not sure about the P-43/P-44 but, it seems to me that the depth of the P-47 belly layout was also partly determined by the placement of twin oil coolers flanking the huge air intake. Perhaps move those coolers to the wings ŕ la the Sea Fury?
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Logan Hartke July 12, 2016, 10:51:42 AM
Kartvelli could definitely design them very slim and sleek, too—when it called for it.

(https://c5.staticflickr.com/8/7461/15518215524_1e1c816b84_b.jpg)

Cheers,

Logan
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Volkodav July 12, 2016, 06:05:55 PM
Always loved the look of the early Republic jets, I know there were hotter ships out there at the time but they just had a clean classic look to them.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe July 12, 2016, 11:22:03 PM
Your thinned P-47 with open canopy makes me think of something: we could still improve the T'bolt beauty by a rear canopy (ŕ la YP-37): close the canopy sliding the windscreen backwards (instead of the canopy forward), and it is done!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v670/Tophe2712/p-47-sf2_zpsbfywrmla.jpg)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: tahsin July 27, 2016, 07:22:57 PM
I seem to remember someone modelling one like this a while back...


Howling Mouse(?) is not a member here? Finished product on this page.

http://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php/topic,18835.255.html (http://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php/topic,18835.255.html)

: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin July 28, 2016, 03:46:08 AM
That's the one.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Jeffry Fontaine July 28, 2016, 04:24:13 AM
I seem to remember someone modelling one like this a while back...
Howling Mouse(?) is not a member here? Finished product on this page.

[url]http://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php/topic,18835.255.html[/url] ([url]http://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php/topic,18835.255.html[/url])


He is a member here on this forum as John Howling Mouse 
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia July 28, 2016, 09:31:45 AM
In true JHM fashion, the Noisy Rodent's approach was a full transverse section of the fuselages!  :o
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia October 17, 2016, 05:56:49 AM
Carlos' musings on automotive whifs prompts me to resuscitate my failed attempt for the Non-Military GB. I had planned to do a whole series of scenarios aimed at 'Saving Studebaker' (and its Packard parent company). Those various Studebaker-Packard scenarios got waaay too long-winded and over-involved and I bailed on the GB.

So, here, I'm just going to give a potted scenario and post the images ...

First up is Go-Big-or-Go-Home scenario for Packard circa 1954. In the RW, Packard had fallen behind when rival Cadillac introduced an iron-block 331 cid V-8 in 1949. In this scenario, instead of proceeding with a copy-cat iron-block V-8, Studebaker-Packard President Jim Nance realized that playing catch-up was a losing proposition. Packard needed to distinguish itself if it was to survive.

The order went out to resume earlier work a new aluminum-block V-12. This engine drew heavily on Packard's wartime experience building the V-1690 Merlin aero-engine. The result was the 1955 Packard Clipper V-12. Due to its aluminum block construction, the Clipper V-12 was lighter than many contemporary American iron-block V-8s despite having larger dimensions. The initial 404 cid Clipper V-12 using the same pistons as the planned for the iron-block 320 cid V-8 but now running in steel sleeve inserts. This engine would go into Packard's new prestige personal-luxury car, the 1955 Paragon V-12.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia October 17, 2016, 05:59:24 AM

While Packard engineers prepared the Clipper V-12, work was also underway on a V-8 derivative. The aluminum-block Clipper V-8 shared many parts with its V-12 stablemate - including its 'square' 3.5-inch bore and stroke. The intital-production Clipper V-8 displaced 269 cid. This was a substantially smaller displacement than Cadillac' iron V-8 but the aluminum-block Clipper V-8 was also substantially lighter. As with the V-12s, bore was increased to 3.75-inches in 1957, increasing displacement to 309 cid.

The aluminum-block Clipper V-8 first went into the Packard Panther (based directly on the 1954 showcar) and its convertible equivalent, the Packard Pacific. In effect, these cars were the V-8 family sedan versions of the Paragon V-12.

The Clipper V-8 was also installed in the Studebaker 'Lowboys', including their Packard version. Displayed as the PowerHawk showcar in 1954, the production models were rebranded as the Packard Paladin. A new, streamlined nose was introduced along with, on the Paladin hardtop, a new Thunderbird-style roofline. The Paladin came standard with Packard's Ultramatic transmission and the sports model featured a hood scoop for its '6-Pack' carburetors.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia October 17, 2016, 06:02:09 AM

In this scenario, the Studebaker line-up is curtailled to the new Raymond Loewy-designed 'Lowboy' series. For the RW 1953 Studebaker 'Lowboy', chief designer Raymond Loewy had envisioned sedan, hardtop, and convertible models. But Studebaker built only one 1953 Commander Convertible prototype. Initially, Harold Vance was only interested in producing the sedan. Coupes were also produced only at Loewy's insistance.

This whif has the convertible model produced but the 'Lowboys' also take styling cues from the Maserti 300S  - as did the Packard Paladin (above). Naming was also rationalized -- with a Silver Hawk sedan, Starlight coupe, and Stylar convertible. A short-wheelbase convertible was also introduced as the Studebaker Sunburst.

All of the 'Lowboys' were powered by an aluminum-block Packard '270' 269 cid V-8 or a Continental 226 cid (3.7L) Red Seal 6-cylinder with a 2-barrel carburetor (Studebaker's flathead 170 cid/2.8 L 'Champion Six' having been abandoned). Sports models had Packard-style twin 4-barrel carbs on V-8s or triple 1-bbls on the 'Super 6'. The Packard Paladin lineup was closely related to the Studebaker Silver Hawk.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia October 17, 2016, 06:02:55 AM

In this scenario, I expanded Studebaker's overseas assembly. Shown here are two 'Lowboy' variants adapted to export markets - the Studebaker Scout Utility assembled in Australia and the Studebaker Serval GT sedan delivery assembled in South Africa.

For the record, Real World assembly of Studebakers outside of the US and Canada consisted of: Australia (CCM); Belgium (D'Ieteren); Chile (Studebaker-Bolocco SA); Israel (Kaiser-Ilin); Mexico (Studebaker de México, SA); New Zealand (Standard, and later Motor Holdings); and South Africa (SAMAD).
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia October 17, 2016, 06:03:56 AM

This unrelated scenario is slightly later. In the RW timeline, Brooks Stevens 'refreshes' Raymond Loewy's 1953 hardtop design as the Gran Turismo Hawk in 1961. But here, Stevens works with a slightly longer (and heavier gauge) frame. The result is the Studebaker Sceptre family car available as a four- or-two door sedan.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia October 17, 2016, 06:05:18 AM

In this scenario, the Studebaker Avanti is introduced sooner and is intended as a more direct rival to the Chevrolet Corvette. The original Raymond Loewy Avanti concept is reworked by Brooks Stevens. A longer, more streamlined nose is introduced with 'pop-up' headlights. The convertible Avanti is introduced in 1961, a hardtop Avanti followed for the 1962 model year.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia October 17, 2016, 06:06:47 AM

Another unrelated scenario and later still. Here, John DeLorean stays with Studebaker-Packard instead of moving to Pontiac. The result is a 'muscle car' development of the Hawk series (instead of Pontiac's GTO). In doing so, Studebaker anticipates the 'Pony Car' trend. In mid-1964, the Studebaker Stallion hardtop is rushed to market to compete with Ford's new Mustang.

The Stallion's advantage over the Falcon-based Mustang is in having a full frame. This, and a factory '6-Pack' option, wins fans in the performance world. In 1965, a convertible Stallion joins the Studebaker stable.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: jcf October 17, 2016, 12:41:22 PM
 :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Old Wombat October 17, 2016, 05:06:21 PM
(http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=351.0;attach=14699)

Where's the fastback? I wanna buy one! :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia October 18, 2016, 07:43:14 AM
Where's the fastback? I wanna buy one! :-*


Good luck Old Wombat. Only 1,198 of those mid-1965 model Stallion GTX fastback were built, making them much sought-after by collectors.

Shown here is the Stallion GTX fastback with some options included - 6-Pack carburetors/carburettors and ram-air hood-scoop, chromed sidepipe exhausts, and reverse-aerofoil rear 'spoiler' wing. Options not taken up on this car were front and rear bumperettes, twin raked AM/FM radio antennae, and wire wheel rims.

For the 1966 Stallion GTX fastback, the wire rims option was replaced by 5-spoke 'mag' wheels and the sidepipe exhausts introduced heat shields.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Old Wombat October 18, 2016, 08:17:14 AM
Bru-um! Bru-um! 8)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia October 18, 2016, 10:15:31 AM
More things with wheels... These vehicles sprang from a notion of a belatedly-recognized Azawad. In this scenario, the French attack Tuareg forces in Northern Mali (as in RW timeline). However, the Azawad government in Kidal signed a cease-fire agreement with Mali's interim government on 22 May 2014. The French then negotiated a rapprochement with Kidal in late May/early June 2014. After 08 June, French forces began cooperating with Azawad forces in combating Islamist forces north of the Niger River.

Bottom Right: An ex-Libyan BRDM-1 featuring the so-called 'Ubari mod' (after the Libyan oasis town of Ubari where the changes were made. The 'Ubari mod' was an attempt to lighten the vehicle while improving its tractability in sandy conditions.

The BRDM's ineffectual and mechanically-complex auxiliary wheel system was removed and replaced with unpowered wheels. Wheels for BRDM 'Ubari mods' were sourced from a variety of 'donors'. In this case, the wheels seem to have been taken from a Libyan Army 122 mm D-30 howitzer.

This vehicle also has mods to its upper hull to provide an open weapons bay (main armament is an ex-Libyan 106 mm M40A1 recoilless rifle). As a carrier, this BRDM was given the rather unimaginative name of í-mnas (camel). An early version of the Azawad flag has been painted on the hull. To the rear, a more official 'Azawad' (in the Tifinagh script) bumper sticker has been applied.

This 'Ubari mod' BRDM-1 was knocked out during an airstrike by French Mirage 2000a in late January 2012.

Top Left: An Azawadi 'technical' after the rapprochement with the French. This Toyoto Hilux has lost its doors and roof structure. In its place is a roll-cage salvaged from a French Panhard VPS (since the main gun is of Russian origin, that VPS was probably a disable vehicle that was stripped and then abandoned by 1er RPIMa in 2013).

This 'technical' is marked with 'Azawad' (in Tifinagh) on a fender box, an MNLA sticker further aft on the front fender, and 'Azawad' spray-bombed on to the rear fender. The Azawadi national flag is flown as a recognition devise from a handy whip antenna.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Old Wombat October 18, 2016, 10:58:28 AM
Nice combat vehicles, mate! :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: jcf October 18, 2016, 12:49:56 PM
Where's the fastback? I wanna buy one! :-*


Good luck Old Wombat. Only 1,198 of those mid-1965 model Stallion GTX fastback were built, making them much sought-after by collectors.

Shown here is the Stallion GTX fastback with some options included - 6-Pack carburetors/carburettors and ram-air hood-scoop, chromed sidepipe exhausts, and reverse-aerofoil rear 'spoiler' wing. Options not taken up on this car were front and rear bumperettes, twin raked AM/FM radio antennae, and wire wheel rims.

For the 1966 Stallion GTX fastback, the wire rims option was replaced by 5-spoke 'mag' wheels and the sidepipe exhausts introduced heat shields.

The scaled Avanti rear light makes it look very Interceptor like.  FF version available. ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: CiTrus90 October 19, 2016, 08:37:50 PM
That 1966 Stallion GTX fastback...

So beautiful...

(http://www.relatably.com/m/img/meme-crying-face-cute/Okay-Crying-Meme-05.png)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia October 20, 2016, 02:24:23 AM
Ah shucks ... thanks folks.

Jon: It wasn't intentional but I'm a later-model Interceptor/FF fan (and the Jensen-Healey too).
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia October 20, 2016, 07:52:20 AM
What? More with those bl**dy Studebakers?  :o

Top Left: In the 1964, the Scout Utility morphed into more of a mini-pickup truck. The 'Plain Jane' entry-level Scout Utility is shown here. Options taken up were the 'city' rear bumper and a fibreglass 'cap' sourced from John Savage boats (Williamstown, Vic) which also provided CCM/Studebaker with aluminium bed covers and caps.

Bottom Right: 1964 Studebaker Daytona with revised quarter panels. No backstory here, I just never liked those rear fenders. I think Brooks Stevens did an amazing job on a budget refresh ... I just can't get past those back fenders ;p
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia October 23, 2016, 11:49:17 AM
Treadhead GB entry: 'Short Leopards' from the leichten Panzerfamilie -- the Jagdpanzer Kanone 105mm and the Argentine VC Leopardo Patagón (aka Pampas Katze).

http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=6771.0 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=6771.0)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia October 25, 2016, 02:30:31 PM
Another Treadhead GB entry with more 'Short Leopards'-- the Flakpanzer Wildkatze 27 ZLW and an upgunned C3A1 Lynx II of the Canadian Army in Germany.

http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=6771.msg116807#msg116807 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=6771.msg116807#msg116807)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia October 26, 2016, 01:11:03 PM

In the Armour Inspiration thread, Greg was musing on a larger turret for the Spähpanzer Luchs.
http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=sgpobumrq5gk57aj1nusos5il5&topic=939.msg116708#msg116708 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=sgpobumrq5gk57aj1nusos5il5&topic=939.msg116708#msg116708)

Fitting a big gun onto the Luchs would be difficult ... the turret ring being small and upper hull space being limited. That got me wondering about an RWS instead.

So, here is the SPz 2 Luchs B1 - a revamped Luchs with Rheinmetall Lance RC turret. To give the turret room, I still had to move the engine aft. That, in turn, displaced the Luchs' rear driver position.

Removing the rear driver got me thinking about a more compact Spähpanzer ... and out popped a 6x6 SPz 2 with a reduced crew (no rear driver) -  the Spähpanzer Luchs Kurz.

: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin October 26, 2016, 02:19:23 PM
 :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia October 30, 2016, 08:23:00 AM

Another 'Short Leopard' installment over at the Treadhead GB

http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=6771.msg117054#msg117054 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=6771.msg117054#msg117054)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia December 15, 2016, 08:21:57 AM
http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=6718.msg118966#msg118966 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=6718.msg118966#msg118966)

taiidantomcat was musing about AAV whifs ... which got the wheels turning.

One thought was using the AAV-7 track system for a distinct USMC IFV series. I've used the ASCOD Pizarro (although, for a corporate POV, the CV90 might have been more plausible?).
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia December 15, 2016, 12:49:04 PM
Another AAV-7 variant whif. This one keeps things inside BAE Systems by mounting the 155mm/52-calibre gun and of turret of BAE Systems Land Systems' AS-90 Braveheart SP on a re-arranged (and lengthened) AAV hull.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Old Wombat December 15, 2016, 11:18:35 PM
Interesting! :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia December 16, 2016, 12:37:22 PM
Another whack at the AAV ... this time on wheels (from the Iveco Centauro to keep it in the BAE family).
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: jcf December 16, 2016, 02:31:21 PM
Looks like it belongs in the next Karl Urban Judge Dredd flick.  ;D
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin December 17, 2016, 02:34:27 AM
Another whack at the AAV ... this time on wheels (from the Iveco Centauro to keep it in the BAE family).

I like! :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia December 19, 2016, 12:30:22 PM
I decided that I had to have a whack at improving this: http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=4298.msg118932#msg118932 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=4298.msg118932#msg118932)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: AXOR December 19, 2016, 07:51:28 PM
Excellent,It looks so much better !!!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin December 20, 2016, 03:27:29 AM
I dub thee "Moon mobile" ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: taiidantomcat December 23, 2016, 12:20:07 AM
That's pretty cool!! Hips seem to be adaptable to anything! Would be cool to see one in a v-22 osprey configuration? After we get the submarine version first of course lol
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 02, 2017, 05:12:15 AM
A while back, somebody mentioned sloped armour on the Cromwell. Here's my go at that concept ...
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: ChernayaAkula January 03, 2017, 01:35:22 AM
Nice!  :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 04, 2017, 04:24:30 AM
Thanks Moritz. I was trying to give a little more shape to the turret. For the hull, I figured that T-34 features were appropriate to a Cromwell upgrade  ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 11, 2017, 03:00:32 AM

The Be.650 was to be a lead-in trainer for the Czechoslovak Air Force's coming Avia B.135 fighter. The Be.650 was of typical Beneš-Mráz wooden construction with power provided by a 535 hp Walter Sagitta I-SR air-cooled inverted V-12 engine. For armaments training, a single 7,92 mm vz.30 machine gun mounted under the starboard cowling would be sychronized to fire through the propeller arc.

Construction of the first Be.650 (oč 1) began in August 1938 at the Beneš-Mráz plant at Choceň. The main undercarriage was to be trousered but, while under construction, spatted wheel-coverings (akin to those on the Avia B.35 prototype) were adopted. This prototype work coincided with the 30 Sept 1938 'Mníchovská zrada' ('Munich Betrayal') which prompted entrepreneur Jaroslav Mráz to look for alternative factory locations in Slovakia. The prototype Be.650 was rolled out at Choceň in early 1939 and immediately flown to a new site at Nitra, Slovakia.

(Top) First prototype Be.650 in April 1939. Note Beneš-Mráz logo on vertical tail and Slovak flag (now covering former Czechoslovak colours) on rudder.

Meanwhile, the second prototype Be.650 (oč 2), with fully-retractable main undercarriage) was being built by ČKD-Praga under a co-construction deal. Work on oč 2 was halted by the 15 March 1939 German occupation of the Czech portion of the country. Ultimately, Be.650 oč 2 was completed and delivered to German authorities in Bohemia-Moravia. It was then sent to Rechlin for testing by the Luftwaffe.

(Bottom) Second prototype Be.650 completed by ČKD-Praga/BMM on arrival at Rechlin, Aug 1940. Note cowling markings - Beneš-Mráz logo is retained along with the script for J. Walter a Spol.

: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: PantherG January 11, 2017, 03:47:14 AM
Amazing "Beta" ..... Simply amazing  ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 11, 2017, 12:20:44 PM
Cheers! I was thinking that it should be a 'Gamma'  :D
_________________________________

In the aftermath of the dissolution of Czechoslovakia, the Nitra facility was renamed Ing. J. Mráz, továrna na letadla. Construction of the third prototype Be.650 (oč 3) by ČKD-Praga had been halted. The Czechoslovak Air Force had previously stated a preference for the retractable undercarriage variant. But that potential customer had just winked out of existence and now there were concerns about future supplies of powerplants. The latter concern proved justified as J. Walter a Spol of Prague was ordered by the German occupation authorities to switch to the production of Argus engines.

ČKD-Praga (now renamed Böhmisch-Mährische Maschinenfabrik AG) was instructed to rework the abandoned oč 3 fuselage as an installation mock-up for a German Argus As 410 inverted V-12 engine. Conversion work proved fairly simple and the mock-up was inspected by the Technische Amt des RLM on behalf of the Luftwaffe. It was concluded that, with suitable modifications, an Argus-engined Be.650 derivative could make a suitable trainer for the Luftwaffe's in-service Messerschmitt Bf 109 fighters.

(Top) Unfinished Be.650 oč 3 fuselage employed as BMM's Argus As 410 engine mock-up.

Work had also continued at Nitra in Slovakia. The Ing. J. Mráz, továrna na letadla had gathered parts from former Beneš-Mráz suppliers now in Bohemia-Moravia with the assistance of the Deutsche Luftwaffenmission in der Slowakei. Sufficient material was found to complete a pre-production batch of 12 aircraft to be delivered to the newly-formed Slovenské Vzdusné Zbrane (SVZ, Slovak Air Arm).

(Bottom) Slovak pre-production Be.651 (marked as oč 4) at the SVZ test centre at Košice.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe January 12, 2017, 01:16:33 AM
Unusual subject and nice profiles, thanks! :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 12, 2017, 01:18:52 PM

The first Be.651 was modified as a light attack aircraft and all remaining pre-production aircraft were completed to that standard under the designation Be.655. The SVZ Be.655s were fitted with an under-fuselage ETC 250 bomb rack of German origin. Fixed armament was increased to two nose-mounted 7,92 mm letecky kulomet vz.30. The first five Be.655s were powered by the Walter Sagitta I-SR engine. The remaining Be.655 airframes were fitted with similar Isotta-Fraschini Gamma powerplants imported from Italy.

The Be.655s served in the attack role, deploying with 13.Letka, Stihacia perut' II to the Ukraine in October 1941. The aircraft performed well but the 100 kg bomb load was considered inadequate. Front line Be.655s were replaced by modified Avia B.534s and the Be.655s relegated to the Letecká skola (Air School) where they acted as lead-in trainers for SVZ Bf 109s.

(Top) SVZ Be.655 of 13.Letka, Stihacia perut' II, late Oct 1941. Note loaded ETC 250 bomb rack and field repairs to battle damage from ground fire.

Development also continued in Bohemia-Moravia. The Böhmisch-Mährische Maschinenfabrik AG was ordered to create a suitable fighter-trainer for the Luftwaffe under the designation BM 221. This aircraft was essentially a productionized Be.650 (oc 3) powered by an Argus As 410 engine. The prototype airframe was provided by the Ing. J. Mráz, Flugzeugfabrik but production was undertaken at BMM's facility outside of Prague.

Standard armament for the BM 221 was a single MG 17 machine gun but design work was also undertaken to fit the aircraft with underwing podded MG FF cannons or a single belly-mounted bomb rack. Deliveries began in early 1942 and the BM 221 met all German requirements. However, the Luftwaffe syllabus shifted away from single-seat fighter-trainers in favour of 2-seat fighter conversions like the Bf 109G-12. In early 1944, surviving Luftwaffe BM 221s were transferred either to the SVZ's Letecká skola or to the Finnish Ilmavoimat.

(Bottom) BM 221 advanced trainer of FFS A/B 121 formed at Prag-Gbell (Praha-Kbely) in 1942 after FFS A/B 4 had relocated to Wien-Schwechat. This Flugzeugführerschule was the only Luftwaffe unit to operated the BM 221.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 13, 2017, 11:47:25 AM
Slovenské stíhacie lietadlo - A Slovak Fighter

In the winter of 1943-1944, the Ing. J. Mráz, továrna na letadla (Ing. J. Mráz, Flugzeugfabrik) explored the possibility of evolving its Be.655 design into a full-fledged fighter aircraft. Design work pursued by Rublic Zdenek and Jarl Tomasov resulted in a full-size mock-up for inspection. The response from the SVZ was positive but the Deutsche Luftwaffenmission in der Slowakei was concerned that work on a fighter might interfere with production by the Mráz Flugzeugfabrik of Fieseler Fi 156 and DFS Kranich for the Germans.

The design - which became known as the Mráz Ru.750 - retained little of the Be.655 other than its basic wing structure and general construction techniques. For the Ru.750 mock-up, a Be.655 wing was mated to a new fuselage. The wings were modified to accept a Bf 109's main undercarriage. The mock-up engine - from a wrecked SVZ Bf 109E-4 - was a DB 601A-1 but the higher-powered DB 605A was proposed for production Ru.750 fighters.

Despite a promising design, whose largely wooden construction would save on strategic materials, German occupation authorities would not approve the continued development of this Slovak fighter design. Instead, the Mráz Flugzeugfabrik was ordered to focus on cooperation with the Böhmisch-Mährische Maschinenfabrik on the production of Focke-Wulf Fw 58 trainers.

(Top) Mráz Ru.750 mock-up fitted with a damaged DB 601A-1 salvaged from a SVZ Bf 109E-4.

Blooding the BM 221 - The Be.660 in the Slovenské povstalecké letectvo

The closest that the Mráz fighter-trainer ever got to aerial combat was during the 1944 Slovak National Uprising. A number of ex-Luftwaffe BM 221s were operated by the SVZ's Letecká skola as Be.660s. Several of these aircraft were transferred to operational air fields in advance of the rising.

One Be.660 (BM 221 #227) safely fled Spišská Nová Ves airfield as it was being overrun by German troops. However, this trainer was shot down in error by a Lavochkin La-5FN of the 1st Czechoslovak Fighter Air Regiment operating as it approached sanctuary at Tri Duby airfield. The pilot, Desiatnik Minárik, was killed in the resulting crash.

(Bottom) Des. Minárik's Be.660 has its SVZ markings overpainted and SPL (Slovak Insurgent Air Force) roundels applied. The slogan 'Slovenský Sloboda!' ('Slovak Freedom!') has been daubed over the former SVZ fuselage cross.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: AXOR January 13, 2017, 06:25:00 PM
Excellent !
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 16, 2017, 07:05:50 AM
Cheers Alex!

Mráz in Post-War Czechoslovakia

In the immediate post-WW2 period, Mráz was focused on aircraft repair and parts reclamation work. The first original post-war design was the Mráz Ru-800 Trenér of late 1945. This was a 2-seat tandem basic trainer intended to satisfy a Československé vojenské letectvo (Czechoslovak Air Force) requirement. Like the competing Zlín Z-26 and Praga E-112, the prototype Ru-800 was powered by a 104 hp Walter Minor 4-III inline engine.

The Mráz Ru-800 lost that competition to the superior Zlín Z-26. But, in March 1948, Mráz took a chance on the potential pro-Russian leanings of the new Communist government in Prague. The prototype Ru-800 was taken from storage and re-engined with a 125 hp Shvetsov M-11 5-cylinder radial. The Ru-800 was also fitted with a new, fully-blown sliding canopy.

As expected, the more powerful Soviet engine improved performance but, contrary to Mráz expectations, the new government continued to favour domestic engine designs over Soviet powerplants. The Ru-800 was used by Mráz as a company hack until early 1950 were the prototype was heavy damaged when nosing over on soft ground.

(Top) Rebuilt Mráz Ru-800 with sliding canopy and Shvetsov M-11D radial, summer 1948

'Air Police' - Last Hurrah for the Mráz BM 221/Be.660

Although the last two Be.655s were destroyed at Tri Duby, a number of Argus-powered BM 221/Be.660 survived the Second World War. Refurbished by Moravan Zlínavion, twelve aircraft were assigned to the paramilitary Bezpecnost (Security) service of the federal police force. [1]

A new CzAF Aircraft Designation class - Hlídkový letoun (Patrol aircraft) - was considered for the Mráz Be.660. But, despite being operated in a border patrol capacity, the Be.660 was given the 'C' (Cvicna) for trainer designation - C 12. The Mráz C 12 served from late 1945 until early 1954.

(Bottom) Mráz C 12 in standard 1948 Bezpecnostni letectvo (Security aviation) markings - 'sfericky trojuhelnik' roundel on the tail, red nose (decorated here with police badge and 'POLICIE'), and distinctive 'OK-BYx' registration style.

____________________

[1] The refurbished Be.660s were considered compensation for 12 Benes-Mráz Be-51B Beta-Minors ordered by the 'Air Police' in the late '30s, but still undelivered at the time of the German occupation.

____________________
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: CiTrus90 January 17, 2017, 04:34:43 PM
:)
: Merlin Skua
: apophenia January 20, 2017, 09:35:57 AM

A notion that I keep returning to is an engine-swap between the Blackburn Skua and the Fairey Battle. The idea is to increase the Skua's potential - and survivability - as a divebomber (for both the FAA and the RAF) with the Rolls-Royce powerplant while phasing out the less-than-useful Battle. [1]

In the current concept, the 'Merlin Skua' has the Merlin III. With its Hurricane-like installation, a new fuel tank is mounted in the forward upper fuselage. The Skua's drum-shaped lower fuselage fuel tank would be become another flotation chamber (FAA aircraft) or long-range fuel tank (RAF divebombers).

The resulting aircraft is rather long-nosed ... but so too was the Skua with a Perseus. Other than that, any thoughts or critiques?

_________________________

[1] Battles with 890 hp Bristol Perseus XII radials would serve as crew trainers and target tugs.
_________________________
: Re: Merlin Skua
: Tophe January 20, 2017, 12:01:43 PM
any thoughts or critiques?
My thought is that it looks fine! Thanks! ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Old Wombat January 20, 2017, 12:13:06 PM
Not bad! :)

Might give it half a chance at surviving. ;)

Getting rid of the G__-Awful canopy might be the next move. ::)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: AXOR January 20, 2017, 06:17:27 PM
Blackburn Skua is not necessarily an elegant airplane but definitely is interesting...now,with Merlin engine looks more interesting.
Good job  :)

Getting rid of the G__-Awful canopy might be the next move. ::)
I argee
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin January 21, 2017, 04:46:47 AM
Interesting.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 22, 2017, 09:56:25 AM

Thanks for the feedback, folks. Old Wombat: Were you referring to the sliding canopy or the windscreen? I always thought that the latter looked odd but, apparently, that rather upright windscreen was good at shedding rain on approach.

I was also working on a new approach to a single-seat Skua derivative ... which does have a revised windscreen (the Skua windscreen accommodated a gun sight but I wanted thicker, bullet-resistant glass as well).

Blackburn Boreas

I've names this revision the Blackburn B-34 Boreas (after Greek god of the cold north wind). The scenario here is that the single-seater Boreas eclipsed B-25 Roc turret-fighter development when the Admiralty realized that they'd need a higher-performing fighter for carrier use in the North Sea. The B-34 Boreas shared some features of their B-24 Skua shipmates but were smaller overall.

In late 1937, the Air Ministry switched an earlier order for 136 Rocs for a similar number of Boreas. These fighters were built by Boulton Paul at Wolverhampton. The first Boreas Mk.I entered service with 803 Naval Air Squadron in Oct 1939, with deliveries to 800 NAS beginning in early Dec 1939. Performance was not as good as anticipated once operational equipment had been added.

At Boulton Paul's instigation, design work began on a Merlin-powered Boreas. The prototype Boreas Mk.II flew in Aug 1938. Trial results were good and production of the Perseus XII-powered Mk.I was phased out after 76 were completed. Deliveries of 'Merlin Boreas' began in March 1940, replacing the Sea Gladiators of 802 NAS aboard HMS Glorious. The Boreas Mk.II fought with distinction in Norway until Glorious was sunk.

___________________
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe January 22, 2017, 01:39:37 PM
Good! :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Old Wombat January 22, 2017, 03:03:07 PM
Thanks for the feedback, folks. Old Wombat: Were you referring to the sliding canopy or the windscreen? I always thought that the latter looked odd but, apparently, that rather upright windscreen was good at shedding rain on approach.

I was also working on a new approach to a single-seat Skua derivative ... which does have a revised windscreen (the Skua windscreen accommodated a gun sight but I wanted thicker, bullet-resistant glass as well).

The whole lot! Ugly! :-X
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 23, 2017, 03:12:48 AM
The whole lot! Ugly! :-X


Old Wombat: Interesting ... beauty is in the eye. I've always rather liked the Skua's glazing.  :icon_crap:

Some may have noticed that my Blackburn Boreas was somewhat out of scale. That was intentional and based on the proportions of the FROG Blackburn Skua that I built as a kid.

Swanny's Models discussion group member razordws from Vernon, BC, began tackling the Revell (ex-FROG) Skua (#04100) a few years back. His build seems to have stalled but razordws' observations were interesting. The Revell kit has some seriously underscale parts -- primarily the wings being too narrow in chord, horizontal tailplane underscale generally. Perfect, I thought, for a single-seat fighter relative of the Skua and Roc  :))

http://www.swannysmodels.com/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1260854104/8 (http://www.swannysmodels.com/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1260854104/8)

Below is a planview of an out-of-the-box build of the FROG kit (by TobyC on UAMF) where the narrow chord and small horizontal tail are quite evident. For a comparison with the Valka.cz sideview image that I based the Boreas profile on, see: http://www.valka.cz/html_images/ICE/Skua_2/01.jpg?utm_source=valka_cz&utm_medium=article&utm_campaign=linkthru  (http://www.valka.cz/html_images/ICE/Skua_2/01.jpg?utm_source=valka_cz&utm_medium=article&utm_campaign=linkthru)

I left the kit 'flaws' as is but changed the centre fuselage to create the single-seater -- shortening the nose, and moving the pilot's position aft. As mentioned before, a 'slopier' windscreen accommodates armour glass and the rear turtledeck from a Sea Gladiator was incorporated (with glazed area extended on the Boreas Mk.II). I also shaved off the Skua's distinctive ventral fin (with the shorter nose, I thought that this extra fin area would no longer be needed).
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: jcf January 23, 2017, 11:17:50 AM

Merlin C powered design to spec A.39/34.
Span: 44'
Length: 30' 4.5"
Height: 10' 6"
(labeled as 'dive bomber' on drawing and as 'turret fighter' in text of Putnam Blackburn volume.)
(http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww291/joncarrfarrelly/BTS/ROC_MERLIN_01.jpg)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 24, 2017, 10:58:28 AM
Merlin C powered design to spec A.39/34...

Jon: Great stuff on the Blackburn divebomber/turret fighter! I've done a rough comparison of the A.39/34 submission and the B-25 Roc. Quite a few changes along the way!

Wingspan: Roc 46' ; A.39/34 44'
Length: Roc 35' 7"; A.39/34 30' 4.5"
Height: Roc 12' 1'; A.39/34 10' 6"

The project to A.39/34 appears to have twin wing guns outboard of the main undercarriage. But there's no sign of any engine exhausts or radiators. The latter should be in evidence for the glycol-cooled Merlin C (although the first few P.V.-12s had water/steam cooling systems). Maybe the Blackburn project was originally planned for the evaporative-cooled R-R Goshawk engine?

The Air Min spec is also a little confusing. A.39/34 was for a 2-seat Army co-operation type to replace the Hawker Audax and Hector biplanes (ultimately satisfied by the Westland Lysander). So why did Blackburn submit a turret-fighter and/or divebomber for A.39/34? My guess is that Blackburn was hoping to pick up additional contracts to replace the RAF's Hawker Hind and Demon as well.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin January 25, 2017, 02:23:13 AM
Any chance we will see a floatplane version of your new creations?

(http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii120/Duggy009/Blackburn-Roc-Floatplane.jpg)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin January 25, 2017, 02:23:48 AM
I would also love to see a version of the Skua adopted by the British Army.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia January 27, 2017, 04:12:41 AM
Any chance we will see a floatplane version of your new creations?

Well, sorta ...

Merlin-Skua Floatplane

When the 1940 Norwegian campaign began, the Air Ministry became very interested in float-equipped combat aircraft. As such, Blackburn undertook to fit its Merlin-Skua with the twin float set from their Shark biplane torpedo bomber.

Taxi trails with the Merlin-Skua on floats immediately showed that the radiator scoop would fill with sea water with the slightest porpoising. This was remedied with the substitution of a more forward-placed radiator (taken directly from a Wellington Mk.II bomber). The floatplane's behaviour on the water was rather erratic while airborne performance had become mediocre.

After the fall of Norway, the Merlin-Skua on floats concept was shelved.

Blackburn Boreas Float-Fighter Concept

AM Spec N.2/42 called for a retractable-hull flying-boat fighter. Blackburn made two submissions to this specification. The more advanced concept resulted in the Napier Sabre-powered Blackburn B-44 based on the planned Firebrand shipboard fighter. The less ambitious proposal was the Blackburn B-36F 'Pacific Fighter' development of the Merlin-powered Boreas series.

The 'Pacific Fighter' was to feature a shallower fuselage and wings adapted for Blackburn B-20 style retractable wingtip stabilizer floats. At a early stage, it was realized that an enlarged tailplane would also be required. Ultimately, the Merlin was to be replaced by the more powerful Rolls-Royce Griffon engine.

The Air Ministry reviewed both Blackburn proposals and elected to pursue the more advanced B-44. In light of the host of problems encountered by the base B-37 Firebrand aircraft, this would seem to have been the wrong decision.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin January 27, 2017, 04:21:51 AM
 :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe January 27, 2017, 02:00:02 PM
a retractable-hull flying-boat fighter.
So uneasy to draw... but you succeeded, congratulations! :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: upnorth January 27, 2017, 06:34:55 PM
I haven't checked in here for a while, you've made some nice additions.

I quite like the Mraz designs you've cooked up in the last couple of pages. In reality, stuff that came from Benes-Mraz, Mraz and later Orlican was all pretty interesting and had some good "What if" potential.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: ericr January 27, 2017, 09:15:38 PM
long live seaplanes !
 :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe January 28, 2017, 02:47:47 PM
Thanks again Apophenia, you made me dream of similar Mustangs with retractable float, enriching my collection... ;)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe January 28, 2017, 03:06:38 PM
Sorry Apophenia, I mistyped your name. It is corrected at http://www.kristofmeunier.fr/P-51TR9_adp.jpg (http://www.kristofmeunier.fr/P-51TR9_adp.jpg)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: jcf January 30, 2017, 01:24:10 PM
Whatabout another one with twin retractable floats, Ursinus style ;D
(http://aviadejavu.ru/Images6/OS/OS-1/29-2.jpg)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: tankmodeler January 31, 2017, 11:03:00 PM
Any chance we will see a floatplane version of your new creations?
Because a regular Roc isn't, quite, ugly enough, we need to put floats on it...    ;D
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia February 01, 2017, 03:14:10 AM
Tophe: I do like your Blackburn B-51D ... IMHO, the Firebrand tail really suits the Mustang!

Jon: Interesting that you mention twin retractable floats. I did briefly consider pinching and backdating the modern Tigerfish approach ;)
http://www.tigerfishaviation.net/page3.html (http://www.tigerfishaviation.net/page3.html)

tankmodeler:  That old "if it looks right, it is right" adage has long-since been turned on its head. It's funny though how, with hindsight, successful concepts (both airframe designs and roles) 'look right' while duds 'look wrong'  :D

Both turret-fighters and float-fighters fit pretty firmly into the dud category as concepts. Yet, to my eyes anyway, the Defiant and Rufe looks 'right' while the Roc and 'Wildcatfish' look 'wrong'. Go figure ...
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia February 01, 2017, 03:18:49 AM
For the next whif, I have the Bell Model-3 winning the US Army Air Corps' 1937 specification X-609. So, the rear-cockpit Model-3 becomes the P-39 Airacobra instead of the mid-cockpit Model-4/Model-12.
________________________

The prototype XP-39 (Bell Model-3) flew in April 1939 powered by a 1,150 hp Allison V-1710-7. In May, an order was placed for ten V-1710-17-powered pre-production Y1P-39s. The latter (Bell Model-3A) were changed in detail compared with the XP-39. Most obvious was the installation of armament -- twin, synchronized .50 calibre Browning machine guns and a 25mm cannon firing through a 'hollow' propeller shaft. In addition, the main undercarriage covers were simplified as was the 'plumbing' for the General Electric turbosupercharger.

The belly-mounted GE B-10 'blower' installation proved quite 'draggy' and general aerodynamic improvement were undertaken. This aerodynamic clean-up saw a pointed propeller spinner retro-fitted to the fifth Y1P-39. Plans were also in hand to relocate the B-10 'blower' to a new, portside fuselage position. That was never done as the Air Corps had decided to cancel the turbo P-39A (Bell Model-3B) in favour of the simpler, supercharged P-39B.

(Top) Y1P-39 Airacobra of the Headquarters Staff flight, 31st Pursuit Group, March-April 1940. This pre-production aircraft displays the 31st PG badge ("Return with Honor") in front of the cockpit and features HQ flight stripes on the forward nose. Note that this Y1P-39 has yet to be fitted with its reflector gun sight.

The P-39B (Bell Model-3C) could be quickly distinguished from the Y1P-39 by its larger tail fin and rudder. Less obvious was the longer main undercarriage legs with smaller, lighter main wheels. The production P-39B Airacobras began arriving to equip the 31st Pursuit Group at Selfridge Field in November 1940. The P-39B did everything expected of it but, lacking armour and self-sealing fuel tanks, the Airacobra was clearly unsuited to modern air combat. Orders were cut from 80 to only 62 P-39Bs.

Further design work on the P-39C (Bell Model-3D) -- which was to add a pair of .30-calibre Brownings to the nose armament -- was abandoned. Instead, the Air Corps decided to adopt Bell's more conventional Model-15 'Export Fighter' as its next service type. But that is another story ...

(Bottom) P-39C Airacobra of the 40th Pursuit Squadron (Interceptor), 31st PG, in 'White Army' markings for the Louisiana Maneuvers, Aug-Sept 1941). White crosses are temporary, water-based paint. The 40th PS badge is painted forward of the cockpit. Note that rudder stripes have now been removed from USAAC combat aircraft.
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: AXOR February 01, 2017, 06:39:34 AM
Waaaaw...P-39 C is the most interesting what if seen lately...absolutely awesome !
This model should be plastified !!!
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe February 01, 2017, 07:37:41 PM
I agree: very wonderful reinvented P-39... Thanks for the enjoyment... :-*
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Old Wombat February 01, 2017, 08:38:45 PM
Sure is different. :)

Unfortunately the wing/cockpit location blocks forward low vision. ???

Fine for a racer, not so flash for a fighter. :icon_crap:
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Rickshaw February 01, 2017, 10:01:58 PM
Reminds me a great deal of the XP-77

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/13/Bell_XP-77.jpg/300px-Bell_XP-77.jpg)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Old Wombat February 02, 2017, 12:32:14 AM
Looks like that's where the canopy came from. :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: Tophe February 02, 2017, 12:37:11 AM
Your P-39C is soooo beautiful, I MUST draw Mustang derivatives of it... thanks again!
EDIT: I join it:
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: GTX_Admin February 02, 2017, 02:33:32 AM
Reminds me a great deal of the XP-77

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/13/Bell_XP-77.jpg/300px-Bell_XP-77.jpg)

My thoughts too.

It is great work. :)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: jcf February 03, 2017, 03:59:34 AM
Posted before but here they are again, drawings from Putnam on Bell by Pelletier,
for those who haven't seen them previously.

(http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww291/joncarrfarrelly/MODEL3-01.jpg)

(http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww291/joncarrfarrelly/MODEL3-02.jpg)
: Re: Apophenia's Offerings
: apophenia February 04, 2017, 10:59:31 AM
Looks like that's where the canopy came from. :)

Old Wombat: That was my first thought, too. The Model-3 canopy concept was recycled for the Model-32/XP-77 lightweight fighter but, I was surprised to discover, the two canopies were quite different in shape  :P

Jon: Thanks for that. Interesting that your Putnam 3-view shows a spinner and an undercarriage very much like the RW P-39. The drawing I was working from must have been of an earlier incarnation -- all of the wheels were much bigger.

________________________

Bell had planned an export version of its Model-3 Airacobra. The hybrid Bell Export Model-3 featured the lighter-weight undercarriage of the unbuilt Bell Model-3D but lacked that design's turbosupercharger. Armed with a 37mm Colt-Oldsmobile cannon, thi concept was offered to the French purchasing commission as a chasse d'assaut. Designated Model-3F, Bell proposed the name Bélier (Battering Ram). Armée de l'Air inspectors were nonplussed by the Model-3F which was privately dubbed 'Baleneau' (the 'Whale Calf').

No-one was surprised when the French declined the Model-3F but the purchasing commission saw greater potential in another as-yet unflown Bell design - the more conventional Model 14. Armée de l'Air personnel viewed the near complete Model 14 as its Allison V-1710C engine was first being installed. The Model 14 was going to be a well-protected aircraft (with armour glass in front and behind the pilot) but also an expensive one. To reduce cost and increase commonality, it was decided to substitute a French powerplant.

The first prototype Model-14 (NX-3970) flew from Buffalo Airfield at Cheektowaga in the beginning of September 1938. Overall, the aircraft was a success but there were 'bugs' to work out. The Model-14 had been designed for the Allison V-1710F but this engine, with its higher thrust-line was not available in time. Instead, the prototype was fitted with a V-1710C making taxiing tricky for test pilots. The 'cut back' carburetor intake also caused engine surging although this was easily remedied by extending the intake forward.

Unexpectly high drag caused by the twin radiator ducts was harder to fix. In the end, a completely new belly duct had to be designed. A bigger problem was Bob Woods' beautifully-shaped canopy. Designed to slide forward during take-off and landing, this canopy had a tendency jam or even t