Beyond The Sprues

Modelling => Completed GBs => Group and Themed Builds => Scaleorama GB => Topic started by: LemonJello on February 05, 2019, 09:41:58 AM

Title: Combat Craft, Air Cushion USMC
Post by: LemonJello on February 05, 2019, 09:41:58 AM
I'm in the early design stages with this one.  Photos to follow once I have something to show.

Base kit is the Trumpeter 1/144 LCAC (JMSDF version).  It's getting scaled up to 1/35.  I plan to use many of the original parts to detail the sheet styrene superstructure.

Armament will be a remote weapons station and some TOW launchers taken from a 1/35 AH-1W. 
Title: Re: Combat Craft, Air Cushion USMC
Post by: finsrin on February 05, 2019, 11:58:31 AM
Large scale change.  Concept sounds sound !
Title: Re: Combat Craft, Air Cushion USMC
Post by: elmayerle on February 05, 2019, 12:36:51 PM
Sounds like the PGAC from Seafighter by James Cobb.
Title: Re: Combat Craft, Air Cushion USMC
Post by: Brian da Basher on February 06, 2019, 05:06:16 AM
It's gonna take a bit for this lily-livered civilian to parse all that alphabet soup but I'm right pleased you're joining in the fun, Mr Jello!

Your models are always an inspiration!

Brian da Basher
Title: Re: Combat Craft, Air Cushion USMC
Post by: Steve Blazo on February 06, 2019, 09:13:45 PM
The SLB Heavy Industries spies will be watching ...... :icon_ninja: :icon_ninja:
Title: Re: Combat Craft, Air Cushion USMC
Post by: jcf on February 07, 2019, 02:58:05 AM
How are you going to deal with the shallow skirt? I looked at doing something similar
but the skirt just doesn't scale, it needs to be three to four times deeper to look right.
Title: Re: Combat Craft, Air Cushion USMC
Post by: LemonJello on February 07, 2019, 03:30:44 AM
How are you going to deal with the shallow skirt? I looked at doing something similar
but the skirt just doesn't scale, it needs to be three to four times deeper to look right.

I remember you mentioning that previously. It was the first thing that struck me when I started perusing the sprues.  That, and the fans may be woefully small for the primary engines when I scale this up.

My first inclination it to just say "to heck with it, it's shown deflated" but I've also considered trying to make something more convincing...suggestions are most welcome.
Title: Re: Combat Craft, Air Cushion USMC
Post by: kitnut617 on February 07, 2019, 03:35:40 AM
Use the 1/72 kit of it instead maybe ?
Title: Re: Combat Craft, Air Cushion USMC
Post by: LemonJello on February 07, 2019, 03:41:43 AM
Use the 1/72 kit of it instead maybe ?

That may be a future project.  I figured I'd start with the 1/144th one and see what the possibilities are before committing to the larger scale.
Title: Re: Combat Craft, Air Cushion USMC
Post by: elmayerle on February 07, 2019, 09:49:56 AM
Suitable rubber or soft plastic tubing might be useful.
Title: Re: Combat Craft, Air Cushion USMC
Post by: Old Wombat on February 07, 2019, 09:52:33 PM
You could try up-scaling only up to 1/48. ???
Title: Re: Combat Craft, Air Cushion USMC
Post by: jcf on February 08, 2019, 07:59:36 AM
Even to 1/48th it looks funny, the 1/72 to 1/48th would probably work pretty well.

I've been kicking around going the other way, in 1/350 you'd have an ACV a little over 213'
in length. Which is a bit larger than the 58m (191'), 1,000 ton ACV 1 Point Design studied
in the ANVCE (Advanced Naval Vehicles Concepts Evaluation) Project of 1976 - 1979.
Title: Re: Combat Craft, Air Cushion USMC
Post by: Frank3k on February 08, 2019, 11:29:49 AM
Going to 1/350 might work - the Russian Zubr (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zubr-class_LCAC)class is 187 feet long.

In 1/35, it's going to be 21 feet long. Something like the 6.5m Wildfire (https://christyhovercraft.com/hovercraft/airlift-hovercraft/wildfire/)
or the Kaiman-10 (https://www.finhov.fi/ilmatyynyalus/kaiman-10/) (a little longer):

(https://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/73AD0A54-A3B2-4E8C-AFDB-E1E049E0B29C_zps30wlyrot.jpeg)

Edited to show photo
Title: Re: Combat Craft, Air Cushion USMC
Post by: LemonJello on February 08, 2019, 09:55:21 PM
I'm sticking with 1/35 for this one as I envisioned it as, at most, a 2 or 3 person vehicle used as an escort for the LCACs and AAVs on the trip to the beach, with the ancillary duty of harbor interdiction and ARG protection while at anchor.  My (future) 1/72 scale-up to 1/35 will be the heavier Assault Craft, Air Cushion.

Now to actually get something done with my card stock templates and post some photos...

Title: Re: Combat Craft, Air Cushion USMC
Post by: Frank3k on February 09, 2019, 03:32:33 AM
For the skirt - how about a 1/2" - 3/4" dia. tube cut in half or 3/4 leaving a "C" cross section. Then drape an old t-shirt over it and give it a very thick coating of primer?
Title: Re: Combat Craft, Air Cushion USMC
Post by: jcf on February 09, 2019, 05:27:02 AM
1"  x 1/2" recycled polystyrene molding.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/American-Pro-Decor-WM-120-1-in-x-1-2-in-x-96-in-Recycled-Polystyrene-Half-Round-Moulding-5APD10716/207038922 (https://www.homedepot.com/p/American-Pro-Decor-WM-120-1-in-x-1-2-in-x-96-in-Recycled-Polystyrene-Half-Round-Moulding-5APD10716/207038922)

(https://images.homedepot-static.com/productImages/0e986a4b-e49a-4dcd-9cc4-eabd441e760e/svn/white-american-pro-decor-general-purpose-moulding-5apd10716-c3_1000.jpg)

Title: Re: Combat Craft, Air Cushion USMC
Post by: finsrin on February 09, 2019, 06:31:37 AM
Good detective work find.  A service to BTS humanity  :smiley:
Title: Re: Combat Craft, Air Cushion USMC
Post by: LemonJello on February 10, 2019, 10:20:53 AM
As promised, the first photos.  I have a solid idea of where I'm going, just not translating it from thought to physical construction as quickly as I'd like.  Enjoy.

Obligatory box photo of the base/donor kit:
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7832/46129288795_31b43a6822.jpg)

Card stock mock up of the hull:
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7885/46991002372_9cb8fee025.jpg)

The center box will be the crew cabin.

Photo showing the problem with the kit's inflation skirt size for 1/35 scale:
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7874/46129288595_20228c88bb.jpg)

Edited to Add

I think the mock-up is done and we can move to cutting styrene. 
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7889/46998693462_0061742d37.jpg)
Title: Re: Combat Craft, Air Cushion USMC
Post by: LemonJello on February 11, 2019, 06:53:13 AM
Did a little more planning/card stock work today.  Now, I think I'm ready to start transferring this to plastic.

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7901/46330134654_6710f6fc5d.jpg)
Title: Re: Combat Craft, Air Cushion USMC
Post by: Brian da Basher on February 11, 2019, 07:07:55 AM
Now that, Mr Jello, is some very intense, serious engineering indeed.

I never thought about mocking things up with index cards or paper before. Will add it to the knowledge base. Seems very useful.

Thanks for the update and the great tip!

Brian da Basher

Title: Re: Combat Craft, Air Cushion USMC
Post by: kitnut617 on February 11, 2019, 09:45:56 AM
You know -- you might not have to do anything to the skirts. This was something back in the day ---

I remember seeing something about British hovercraft on TV, there was all sorts of types ranging from small personal types (even racing ones) to the huge ones
Title: Re: Combat Craft, Air Cushion USMC
Post by: Frank3k on February 11, 2019, 09:49:10 AM
I agree - look at the Kaiman-10 picture - the skirt looks about the same. The mockup looks good. I say go for it - full speed ahead.
Title: Re: Combat Craft, Air Cushion USMC
Post by: jcf on February 13, 2019, 05:24:02 AM
Proportionally the lightweight Kaiman-10 skirt is much deeper, almost half the machine depth
when inflated, than the 1/144 LCAC skirt.

The RNLI hovercraft in the photo is also a low weight machine, and the skirt depth is still
about a third of total depth, an armed/armoured craft will be quite a bit heavier which will
effect the skirt depth.

Physics is physics.
Title: Re: Combat Craft, Air Cushion USMC
Post by: finsrin on February 14, 2019, 07:34:44 PM
You guys doing super job on research and ideas.
Those photos provide insight on skirt height.  Be a sweet range (probably narrow) where skirt size works for kitbash. 
Interesting challenge.  Sure you will do well.
Title: Re: Combat Craft, Air Cushion USMC
Post by: LemonJello on February 19, 2019, 06:09:03 AM
Progress report:

Engines mocked up:
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7912/46224981945_aeaf6d1e4d_z.jpg)
(more detail has been added since this photo was taken)

Look at all that white styrene:
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7882/46224981595_71d2fc84e2_z.jpg)

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7852/40174322283_629aec3f6e_z.jpg)

Got to cut some windows and start on the crew cabin.
Title: Re: Combat Craft, Air Cushion USMC
Post by: Brian da Basher on February 19, 2019, 09:19:34 AM
Now that's a boss looking power-plant if ever I saw one, Mr Jello!

Thanks for the report and the good news that this is proceeding apace.

Brian da Basher
Title: Re: Combat Craft, Air Cushion USMC
Post by: Frank3k on February 19, 2019, 11:56:42 AM
That's looking good! Do you have a 1/35 figure to visualize the size?
Title: Re: Combat Craft, Air Cushion USMC
Post by: finsrin on February 19, 2019, 12:47:52 PM
Super scratch work with card stock.  Beats mine.  :smiley:
Agree - 1/35 figure would be helpful.
Title: Re: Combat Craft, Air Cushion USMC
Post by: andonio64 on February 19, 2019, 04:46:00 PM
This build takes my attention, LJ I am always excited in seeing hi level scratchbuilding !
THe preparatory cardboard mock up is a great idea, I never thought to do so...
Title: Re: Combat Craft, Air Cushion USMC
Post by: jcf on February 20, 2019, 04:03:14 AM
I've been futzing with ways to increase the skirt height, photos later.
Title: Re: Combat Craft, Air Cushion USMC
Post by: LemonJello on February 20, 2019, 04:57:31 AM
I've been futzing with ways to increase the skirt height, photos later.

I'll look forward to your photos.  I have also been mulling over the skirt height issue, and found a potential answer to discuss with the board.

Quote
Do you have a 1/35 figure to visualize the size?

I'll dig a body out of my spares and put him to work.
Title: Re: Combat Craft, Air Cushion USMC
Post by: LemonJello on February 21, 2019, 03:34:13 AM
What to do with a day off due to snow? Work on your air cushion project, of course!

Here are some updates, with Gunther, our Quality Control Supervisor:

Overhead is a little cramped:
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7832/46435554674_730d6cc55d_z.jpg)

Visibility from the bridge is acceptable:
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7924/47159036741_525980d2c4_z.jpg)

"I'm no engineer, but something is missing from these engines."
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7801/46435553764_ea57d9211c_z.jpg)
Title: Re: Combat Craft, Air Cushion USMC
Post by: Brian da Basher on February 21, 2019, 04:35:06 AM
Oops looks like I've been forgetting the Quality Control Supv. all along. That would explain a lot.

Looks great and I'm getting a nice Apocalypse Now PBR vibe from this.

Brian da Basher
Title: Re: Combat Craft, Air Cushion USMC
Post by: taiidantomcat on February 21, 2019, 04:46:26 AM
Ingenious  :-*
Title: Re: Combat Craft, Air Cushion USMC
Post by: Frank3k on February 21, 2019, 05:32:19 AM
It looks like a pretty big ship! Have you thought of something like  this flexible conduit (https://www.amazon.com/25ft-Expandable-Braided-Sleeving-Sleeve/dp/B071ZV6MZ2/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&rps=1&ie=UTF8&qid=1550698078&sr=1-1&keywords=flexible+conduit)? Or a split wire loom (https://www.amazon.com/Black-Tubing-Marine-Nippon-America/dp/B00J7QT3CY/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&qid=1550698100&sr=8-13&keywords=wire+loom). Home Depot has similar items (https://www.homedepot.com/p/Gardner-Bender-1-in-x-5-ft-Split-Flex-Tubing-FLX-1007GRT/202905450).
Title: Re: Combat Craft, Air Cushion USMC
Post by: finsrin on February 21, 2019, 06:32:49 PM
Having figure does so much to visualize Air Cushion USMC.
If weren't expert at plastic card use,,, you became so now.  Looks on track for a fine finish.
Frank3K's references are nice leads.
Title: Re: Combat Craft, Air Cushion USMC
Post by: LemonJello on February 21, 2019, 10:59:19 PM
It looks like a pretty big ship! Have you thought of something like  this flexible conduit (https://www.amazon.com/25ft-Expandable-Braided-Sleeving-Sleeve/dp/B071ZV6MZ2/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&rps=1&ie=UTF8&qid=1550698078&sr=1-1&keywords=flexible+conduit)? Or a split wire loom (https://www.amazon.com/Black-Tubing-Marine-Nippon-America/dp/B00J7QT3CY/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&qid=1550698100&sr=8-13&keywords=wire+loom). Home Depot has similar items (https://www.homedepot.com/p/Gardner-Bender-1-in-x-5-ft-Split-Flex-Tubing-FLX-1007GRT/202905450).

The split wire loom in the above link may be my back-up plan.  I found some Styrofoam cylinders at Micheal's that I'm going to cut for the skirt and then cover in tissue paper/white glue to make a paint-able surface. We'll see how it goes...
Title: Re: Combat Craft, Air Cushion USMC
Post by: jcf on February 22, 2019, 08:24:46 AM
Something to bear in mind is that the flat-deck mounted on top of the skirt
arrangement of the SRN4 and the LCAC is not the only way they're done,
many have a center hull that the skirt comes up around to some degree.
So you could drop the control cabin down into hull a bit to reduce the
overall height.

SRN5 GA drawings with centerline showing hull depth:
(http://photos.smugmug.com/ACV/i-C9MDsv9/0/461ba05b/X2/SRN5_01-X2.png)

Here's an SRN6 broken down for air transport, side hulls removed:
(http://www.jameshovercraft.co.uk/images/galleries/hovermuseum/bhc/srn6hm/n6hm2pacific/n6hm2pacific%20(4).jpg)

SRN6 and other galleries here:
http://www.jameshovercraft.co.uk/hover/hovermus/index.php (http://www.jameshovercraft.co.uk/hover/hovermus/index.php)
Title: Re: Combat Craft, Air Cushion USMC
Post by: LemonJello on March 04, 2019, 06:23:54 AM
Work on the cockpit/bridge:

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7858/47220191772_7f6163456b_z.jpg)

Close up of the pilot and gunner's chairs/controls"

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7889/46357692365_6429b5c335_z.jpg)
Title: Re: Combat Craft, Air Cushion USMC
Post by: Old Wombat on March 04, 2019, 07:27:41 AM
 :smiley: 8)
Title: Re: Combat Craft, Air Cushion USMC
Post by: buzzbomb on March 04, 2019, 08:01:44 AM
 8)

Liking this
Title: Re: Combat Craft, Air Cushion USMC
Post by: Brian da Basher on March 04, 2019, 08:31:38 AM
Those are some great details and I really like those neat controls!

Brian da Basher
Title: Re: Combat Craft, Air Cushion USMC
Post by: andonio64 on March 04, 2019, 02:26:47 PM
Beautiful cockpit, how did you make the leather "cushions" on the seats?

Antonio
Title: Re: Combat Craft, Air Cushion USMC
Post by: LemonJello on March 06, 2019, 10:38:25 AM
The seats started as a single bench seat in my spares box. A little razor saw work and sanding and I had the basis for my crew seats.

I need to add some masking tape seatbelts after they are painted.
Title: Re: Combat Craft, Air Cushion USMC
Post by: Brian da Basher on March 07, 2019, 04:21:04 AM
Looks like some excellent paintwork on those seat cushions. They appear very realistically distressed.

Details like these always make your models a treat, Mr Jello!

Brian da Basher