Beyond The Sprues

Modelling => Completed GBs => Group and Themed Builds => The Coulda, Woulda, Shoulda GB => Topic started by: Tophe on August 21, 2013, 11:44:09 PM

Title: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on August 21, 2013, 11:44:09 PM
As Lockheed, with its P-38 design, failed to reach the long-range specifications, the Burnelli company modified it with much more room for fuel: UB-38.
Trans-Pacific ability!
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on August 22, 2013, 12:03:35 AM
I think I will have to modify the leading edge, with the help of http://www.jitterbuzz.com/manreal/burnelli_01.jpg (http://www.jitterbuzz.com/manreal/burnelli_01.jpg)
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on August 22, 2013, 12:13:49 AM
Improved version (able to fly!):
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on August 22, 2013, 12:35:28 AM
The UB-38 (then improved UB-38A) was the "real" part, but Ing. Burnelli then said this plane coulda/woulda/shoulda have radial engines like his UB-14B: this led to the UB-38B...
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on August 22, 2013, 01:44:29 AM
My son Jacky disapproved this design UB-38B and required the tail to be removed, and the colour to be changed (shoulda!): UB-38J
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on August 22, 2013, 02:11:36 AM
Engineer Jacky, 4 years old, required less realistic colours, and I added a canard tailplane for balance...
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on August 22, 2013, 01:58:51 PM
As the foreplane denied the "flying wing" name on the UB-38K, we coulda/woulda/shoulda add fins for better control: UB-38L
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on August 22, 2013, 10:54:01 PM
Cooperation with my little son goes on, do you adults have other improvement ideas?
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on August 23, 2013, 12:20:30 AM
To take off with trans-Pacific fuel, 3 engines might have been necessary:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v670/Tophe2712/r_P38eclairE_aaaal_zpsc4e35ae9.jpg)
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on August 23, 2013, 12:31:41 AM
With a very long runway and reduced drag, one engine might have been enough at last...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v670/Tophe2712/r_P38eclairE_aaaam_zps5cd0f665.jpg)
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on August 23, 2013, 01:08:57 AM
With a bigger engine and even reduced drag, this gave the UB-38MD (Minimum Drag):
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v670/Tophe2712/r_P38eclairE_aaaao_zpsf03dd488.jpg)
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on August 23, 2013, 02:07:57 AM
A derivative of the former, more balanced when the tanks are empty: UB-38ME
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v670/Tophe2712/P38eclairE_aaaaq_zps8c69ab9f.jpg)
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on August 23, 2013, 02:19:39 AM
UB-38MF: reduced drag did not mean two engines were forbidden (to have a free nose)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v670/Tophe2712/r_P38eclairE_aaaar_zpsda97b35f.jpg)
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on August 23, 2013, 06:34:09 PM
With a bigger engine and even reduced drag, this gave the UB-38MD (Minimum Drag):
Wrong! A Lightning cannot be single engined! A Zwilling may cure the problem, even in the flying wing family:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v670/Tophe2712/r_P38eclairE_aaaat_zps2e79acb5.jpg)
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on August 23, 2013, 06:53:39 PM
Increased range on this version:
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on August 23, 2013, 07:07:39 PM
A more compact, slightly asymmetric version:
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on August 24, 2013, 12:25:57 AM
My wife cooperated also: this is the UB-38A-3:
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on August 24, 2013, 12:34:59 AM
Super long range version (if able to take off): UB-38A-1
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on August 24, 2013, 12:45:50 AM
The UB-38A-2 was different from the UB-38A in having its 2 engines on the centerline. The rear one was shut down after take off to save fuel.
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on August 24, 2013, 12:57:08 AM
For very long subsonic flights over the Pacific, two pilots shoulda be there...
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on August 24, 2013, 01:23:06 AM
Made by Burnelli or not, a Lightning shoulda be twin-boom, not triplex-boom...
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on August 24, 2013, 01:39:24 AM
Without huge tailplane, does this one count as quadruple boom?
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: ChernayaAkula on August 24, 2013, 07:33:00 AM
Tophe and the Amazing Technicolor Lightning Whif!  ;D

I'm kinda partial to the triple-engined one your wife inspired and to the single-engined one derived from that.  :)
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on August 24, 2013, 10:21:41 AM
Thanks for your answer... Do you have other ideas for a Burnelli Lightning?
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on August 24, 2013, 12:57:39 PM
Google pictures, for "Burnelli", finds immediately a jet-Burnelli patent at http://www.mysteriesofcanada.com/Canada/Canada_Car/burnelli_designs.htm (http://www.mysteriesofcanada.com/Canada/Canada_Car/burnelli_designs.htm)
So... here is a Burnelli Jet-Lightning:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v670/Tophe2712/r_P38eclairE_aaabj_zps38140a12.jpg)
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on August 24, 2013, 01:04:09 PM
What? A Lightning shoulda be twin-engined? No problem for the Burnelli design team:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v670/Tophe2712/r_P38eclairE_aaabk_zpsa08a136b.jpg)
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on August 24, 2013, 01:14:57 PM
Far away from my naive dreams, I shoulda face the bloody urgency in 1945: fighting the Me-163 Komet transsonic fighter... This requires rocket and swept wings, Burnelli or not:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v670/Tophe2712/r_P38eclairE_aaabl_zps41b67465.jpg)
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on August 24, 2013, 01:45:30 PM
And from Burnelli's http://www.aerofiles.com/burnelli-wing.jpg (http://www.aerofiles.com/burnelli-wing.jpg) I shoulda add:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v670/Tophe2712/r_P38eclairE_aaabn_zps50b77704.jpg)
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on August 24, 2013, 04:20:16 PM
What? I shoulda be more realist? and respect Burnelli's tailplane and contra-props? I fear I am unable to be realistic but any transformation is welcome:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v670/Tophe2712/r_P38eclairE_aaabq_zps93d2b7c3.jpg)
(with 8 micro-engines...)
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on August 24, 2013, 04:35:00 PM
What do you mean "micro-engines do not exist, Burnelli was designing a huge bomber"? Well I do not understand the meaning of "exist" and I dislike terror-bombing, but I woulda imagine a huge airliner with 8 normal engines:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v670/Tophe2712/r_P38eclairE_aaabr_zpsb2fed660.jpg)
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on August 24, 2013, 05:20:19 PM
What a shame!: Google found a Burnelli patent that was neither twin-boom nor flying wing but featuring a simple tail...
see http://hobby-maquettes.xooit.fr/t902-GRUMMAN-XF5-f1-SKYROCKET.htm (http://hobby-maquettes.xooit.fr/t902-GRUMMAN-XF5-f1-SKYROCKET.htm)
A Burnelli-Lightning shoulda match:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v670/Tophe2712/r_P38eclairE_aaabu_zps6afd9a68.jpg)
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on August 24, 2013, 06:42:41 PM
Fortunately, the Zwilling derivative restored the twin-boom layout of the Lightning:
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on August 24, 2013, 06:59:54 PM
A more compact derivative:
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on August 24, 2013, 09:26:00 PM
Of course, old archives explain that the Uppercu-Burnelli family UB came from the Remington-Burnelli family RB, but there has also been a RB-38, biplane
See http://www.aerofiles.com/burnelli-rb1.jpg (http://www.aerofiles.com/burnelli-rb1.jpg)
 
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on August 24, 2013, 09:32:23 PM
From the biplane RB-38 woulda come the monoplane XUB-38:
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on August 24, 2013, 09:35:37 PM
And then the twin-boom YUB-38, now you know almost all of the Burnelli-Lightning...
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on August 25, 2013, 12:23:53 AM
On Burnelli's main page http://www.burnelliaircraft.com/ (http://www.burnelliaircraft.com/) is a true canard with lifting fuselage, and I shoulda make a connection with the Lightning:
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on August 25, 2013, 12:25:04 AM
And the twin-jet derivative:
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on August 25, 2013, 12:26:03 AM
Final: the rocket version:
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on August 25, 2013, 01:23:43 AM
There was not enough asymmetry in this topic of mine... I shoulda include more uncommon derivatives.
The UB-38O was a Flying Observation Post:
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on August 25, 2013, 01:36:44 AM
In 1946 there coulda/woulda/shoulda be a jet derivative of the UB-38O:
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on August 25, 2013, 03:02:26 AM
Without asymmetry, the result was less sexy:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v670/Tophe2712/r_P38eclairE_aaacl_zpsda769a5a.jpg)
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on August 25, 2013, 01:20:49 PM
The rocket derivative was even better for tourism:
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on August 25, 2013, 01:39:27 PM
I don't like my national colours (too bright) but as long as this is for tourism, it's OK:
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on August 25, 2013, 01:54:11 PM
Even better with jets at wingtips:
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on August 25, 2013, 03:42:38 PM
In the new Trait d'Union magazine (#270) is an article about the Turboclair ground device made with French Vampire. A Burnelli-Lightning derivative would have been efficient (against fog) for a much longer duration:
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on August 25, 2013, 04:25:51 PM
A twin-"plane" would have an improved volume coverage:
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on August 25, 2013, 04:35:04 PM
A simplified (twin-boom) version:
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on August 25, 2013, 06:00:06 PM
Far from ground devices, the very first designs of jet-aircraft had to deal with 2 commands : several units as the power was low, lots of tank room because jets were eating much. The Burnelli layout was good for that:
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on August 25, 2013, 06:22:37 PM
Burnelli Lightning pulse-jet fighter:
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on August 25, 2013, 07:03:20 PM
Pulse jets are not atomic engines, they may be closer to the pilot:
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on August 25, 2013, 09:36:26 PM
Blohm und Voss licence-built the Burnelli Lightning, but with a difference:
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on August 25, 2013, 09:57:39 PM
The UB-38BV-1 above found no purchaser, all customers being afraid of a flying-wing design and of a single asymmetric engine. Blohm und Voss thus designed the UB-38BV-2 below, still with Burnelli's aproval:
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on August 25, 2013, 10:20:43 PM
For marketing reasons, the Blohm und Voss catalogue needed an UB-38BV-3 so it shoulda be designed:
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on August 26, 2013, 12:11:49 AM
UB-38BV-4: the safest of all airplanes, with a mechanic to repair in flight all the engines
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on August 26, 2013, 12:22:26 AM
UB-38BV-5:
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on August 26, 2013, 12:33:00 AM
UB-38BV-6 push-pull:
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on August 29, 2013, 01:31:33 AM
UB-38MI Mistel-Burnelli-Lightning:
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on August 30, 2013, 12:32:24 AM
UB-38MI-2 simplified Mistel, with the component above being a simple lifting tank:
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on August 30, 2013, 12:17:59 PM
Even more simplified, to show better the Burnelli-Lightning lines:
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on August 30, 2013, 07:20:51 PM
UB-38BV-5B:
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on August 31, 2013, 02:52:41 AM
Inspired by Josť Fern's topic http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=1715.120, (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=1715.120,) here is another Burnelli Lightning:
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on August 31, 2013, 12:26:17 PM
Without gun, the civilian UB-38U needed no long nose:
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on August 31, 2013, 01:31:42 PM
The single-boom version of the Burnelli-Lightning may be asymmetric too:
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on August 31, 2013, 10:50:24 PM
Top secret! The UB-38XYZ was the only propeller-driven airplane that reached 1000km/h in level flight. It used either 10 V-3420 engines or 20 V-1710 engines. A Burnelli fuselage was needed for fuel, everyone may understand why...
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on September 01, 2013, 11:15:35 PM
This Lightning airliner is half devoted to passengers, half to engineers:
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on September 02, 2013, 12:50:11 AM
A half-Burnelli Lightning:
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Weaver on September 02, 2013, 03:55:36 AM
Tophe, you're mad (but in a good way ;) ). :)
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on September 03, 2013, 01:02:43 AM
Thanks a lot Weaver, I will tell that to my psychiatrist... ;)

And still with my son's colouring, here is the UB-38NF Night-Fighter 1936 (before radar was invented, night interceptors had to circle for very long flights with many eyes trying to discover something...)

Which one(s) should I present as final entry (ies)?
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: raafif on September 03, 2013, 06:17:54 AM
that last one needs the outer-cockpit noses to be the same as the center one  :)

You still haven't done one with inter-meshing prop-blades >:D
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Weaver on September 03, 2013, 08:59:08 AM
As the foreplane denied the "flying wing" name on the UB-38K, we coulda/woulda/shoulda add fins for better control: UB-38L

([url]http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3454.0;attach=6937;image[/url])


If this one had the tail fins back on the ends of the booms it would be pretty cool and almost believable... ;)
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on September 03, 2013, 11:27:16 AM
Thanks Raafif and Weaver.

that last one needs the outer-cockpit noses to be the same as the center one  :)
This one is easy to "correct" in a shoulda improvement... (I will work on other suggestions today)
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on September 03, 2013, 12:41:17 PM
As the foreplane denied the "flying wing" name on the UB-38K, we coulda/woulda/shoulda add fins for better control: UB-38L
If this one had the tail fins back on the ends of the booms it would be pretty cool and almost believable... ;)
So here are the famous UB-38W-1 and W-2, result of Burnelli/Weaver cooperation...:
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on September 03, 2013, 03:05:35 PM
You still haven't done one with inter-meshing prop-blades >:D
Now this is serious historical facts, I shoulda stop colouring madly... You are obviously referring to the secret UB-38RAA-1 (and -2 and -3), ordered by the RAAF in 1937 and cancelled in 1938 after propeller damage during ground testing:
(http://www.kristofmeunier.fr/r_P38eclairB_baaaao.JPG)
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on September 03, 2013, 03:49:15 PM
Of course, 1938's engineers understood that intermeshing propellers must be driven by a single engine. But could I reveal the UB-38RAA-4 (and -5 and -6), top secret, that saved Australia from invasion? Well, maybe in 2013 we should do it, let's go:
(the UB-38RAA-6 is a twin-engined plane, with its port engine driving the push-propellers and its starboard engine driving the pull-propellers)
(http://www.kristofmeunier.fr/r_P38eclairB_baaaaq.JPG)
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on September 03, 2013, 09:55:32 PM
Other twin-engined projects with intermeshing propellers (not built, even if some could have been):
(http://www.kristofmeunier.fr/r_P38eclairB_baaaav.JPG)
EDIT: the second one was not Burnelli, sorry, I have changed it!
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on September 04, 2013, 07:19:05 PM
Push-pull asymmetric Burnelli-Lightnings:
(http://www.kristofmeunier.fr/r_P38eclairB_baaaax.JPG)
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on September 06, 2013, 12:42:58 AM
I have completed my finished entry but on the other forum Wuzak directed me to a peculiar Spitfire
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o73/namnoitca7/DSC08378.jpg (http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o73/namnoitca7/DSC08378.jpg)
and I needed to design Burnelli-Lightnings this way too...
(http://www.kristofmeunier.fr/r_P38eclairB_baaaba.JPG)
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on September 07, 2013, 01:16:05 AM
As the push-pull Spitfire mentionned above had tandem wings, I should add still new Burnelli-Lightnings:
(http://www.kristofmeunier.fr/r_P38eclairB_baaabb.JPG)
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: apophenia on September 07, 2013, 06:08:11 AM
Especially love that last, twin-bodied model Tophe  :-*
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on September 07, 2013, 12:53:16 PM
Thanks a lot, apophenia!
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on September 10, 2013, 01:50:58 AM
Still other ones :
(http://www.kristofmeunier.fr/r_P38eclairG_aai.JPG)
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on September 11, 2013, 11:45:28 AM
And related to the Bv-138: the UB-138A, B, C:
(http://www.kristofmeunier.fr/r_P38eclairG_aaj.JPG)

And related to the Savoia S.55, 66 and 77: the UB-38SM-1, 2, 3:
(http://www.kristofmeunier.fr/r_P38eclairG_aal.JPG)
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: finsrin on September 11, 2013, 12:37:53 PM
aah yes,,, With high mounted engines on that novel configuration, you are onto flying boat designs  :)
Very interesting.  The plot thickens......
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on September 12, 2013, 12:14:51 PM
Thanks finsrin for that new idea! ;)
Do you mean Burnelli lifting fuselage acting as Dornier sponsons? or supporting floats?
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: ChernayaAkula on September 12, 2013, 01:12:24 PM
The flying boats are pretty damn cool!  :)
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: finsrin on September 12, 2013, 01:42:41 PM
Pictured you headed toward designs like one on left.  But they both look doable as kitbashes waiting to happen. 
Like for  Something Floaty #2
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on September 13, 2013, 12:15:18 PM
Thanks!
And as there were some Burnellis being single-boom, there could be designed such a Burnelli-sea-Lightning: UB-38DO (built under licence by Dornier, expert about sponsons):
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v670/Tophe2712/r_P38eclairG_aan_zpsd4272ff3.jpg)
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: finsrin on September 13, 2013, 01:03:34 PM
To build this hmmm:
> P-38 kit for engines and outer wings   1/48
> Tail boom from any number of kits
> Nose from Banshee or your pick   1/48
> Center wing from OV-10 outer wings ?   1/48
> Main body from 1/72 XB-35/49 or scratch build or ?

Other ideas..... ?
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on September 13, 2013, 01:16:47 PM
Great building project, thanks for the analysis!
But before deciding, let us consider that a Lightning flying boat shoulda be twin-hull, because this is a Lightning!:
Title: Re: Burnelli UB-38
Post by: Tophe on September 15, 2013, 12:20:02 PM
Last pic today (final day for the GB - I mean Group Build, not Great Britain...), September 15th 06:10 19 am
This is the secret UB-38X-3 that made the first round-the-world flight without refueling, decades before the Rutan Voyager (though maybe on another planet): 40,000km range (24,860.16 miles) after a take-off run of 17km (10 miles)... ;)