Beyond The Sprues

Modelling => Ideas & Inspiration => Engineering Dept. => Topic started by: Jeffry Fontaine on January 09, 2012, 12:42:14 PM

Title: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on January 09, 2012, 12:42:14 PM
Something that you might not see very often would be an A-7D Corsair II armed with a 20mm gun pod. 

In this case the A-7D Corsair II was assigned to the 354th TFW at Korat RTAB, Thailand sometime in 1973 and is armed with at least one SUU-23 20mm gun pod.  The other side may have the same or could be carrying a fuel tank.  Without additional images of the aircraft it is only speculation at this point.  Anyway, something out of the ordinary and something to consider for arming your next modeling project. 

(http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc4/ikar_photos/ikar_photos%202/scan0100.jpg)
(image source: ikar01)

The image was found in this discussion on ARC: Can A Vietnam A-7D Corsair Carry Gun Pods?  (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/index.php?showtopic=243220)

The original location of the image is in this discussion on Fine Scale Modeler: A-1 Skyraider ordnance question (http://cs.finescale.com/FSMCS/forums/t/101829.aspx?PageIndex=1)

A quartet of SUU-23 gun pods on an A-7 would be sweet.  Welcome to "Club Shred!"
Title: Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
Post by: Cliffy B on January 09, 2012, 01:14:05 PM
Well that's pretty darn cool!  Odd as well considering they carried an internal 20mm Vulcan.  Mmmmmmm 5 20mm Vulcans.... :icon_twisted:   Reminds me of those shots of the USMC Phantoms carrying 3 SUU-23s during Vietnam.  Club Shred indeed!
Title: Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on January 09, 2012, 03:35:47 PM
Some on-line references for aircraft gun systems:

Wikipedia - U.S. helicopter armament subsystems (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Helicopter_Armament_Subsystems)

Wikipedia - U.S. aircraft gun pods (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._aircraft_gun_pods)

Weapon Systems Net (weaponsystems.net (http://weaponsystems.net/index.php)


==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Well that's pretty darn cool!  Odd as well considering they carried an internal 20mm Vulcan.  Mmmmmmm 5 20mm Vulcans.... :icon_twisted:   Reminds me of those shots of the USMC Phantoms carrying 3 SUU-23s during Vietnam.  Club Shred indeed!


Odds are that any aircraft so equipped with a quantity of gun pods such as the SUU-23 or similar would not be firing all pods in one pass.  That would be a bit much and a definite waste of resources.  The more likely scenario would see the aircraft firing the guns in pairs and probably expending the gun pod ammunition and using the on-board gun for any follow up on the target if it were not already obliterated.  I have wanted to do an A-10 armed with the GPU-5 30mm Gun Pod or the SUU-23 in quantities of four.  Not sure about how well the aircraft would handle with hot gun gas being introduced directly in front of the engines but it would look intimidating. 

==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

More for "Club Shred"

A-4A Skyhawk BuNo 137818 armed with three Mk-4 HIPEG gun pods at Naval Ordnance Test Station (NOTS) China Lake, California (19640124)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/40/Mk4_Navy_Picture.jpg)
(image source: A Photographic History of NAF and VX-5 at NOTS China Lake (http://www.chinalakealumni.org/))

Quote
(From Wikipedia - Gun Pods ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._aircraft_gun_pods[/url]))

Mk 4 Mod 0

Developed by the US Navy, this pod is fitted with the Mk 11 Mod 5 20 mm cannon, along with 750 rounds of ammunition.  This pod is said to have been used on a variety of US Navy and Marine Corps aircraft including the A-4 Skyhawk, F-4 Phantom II, A-7 Corsair II,and OV-10 Bronco.  Approximately 1200 Mk 4 Gun Pods were manufactured by Hughes Tool Company, later Hughes Helicopter, in Culver City, California. While the system was tested and certified for use on the A-4, the A-6, the A-7, the F-4, and the OV-10, it only saw extended use on the A-4, the F-4, and the OV-10. In the case of the OV-10, the unit was used by VAL-4, a Navy squadron assigned to Binh Thuy, Vietnam, and was used extensively for close air support missions.


Attached is a second image of the A-4 Skyhawk posted above during a firing run with one of the three gun pods spewing destruction.  What is amazing is the shower of spent cartridges and links that fill the air as the gun pod is firing. 
Title: Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
Post by: Logan Hartke on January 09, 2012, 11:39:01 PM
If one is good, more is better!

Cheers,

Logan
Title: Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
Post by: GTX_Admin on January 10, 2012, 02:27:26 AM
Lets see some GEPOD 30s...

(http://data.primeportal.net/hangar/bill_spidle/gpu-5_avenger/GPU-5c%20FWD%20BOTTOM.jpg)

More (http://www.primeportal.net/hangar/bill_spidle/gpu-5_avenger_walk.htm)

F-16 GPU-5/A 30mm Gun Pod (GEPOD 30) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SE1S95Cy7wg#)
Title: Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
Post by: elmayerle on January 10, 2012, 09:17:59 AM
I've already got a planned "upgunned" A-10 with two 30-mm Gepods in addition to the main gun.  The project name is "Gunslinger" and that name will be part of the nose art.
Title: Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
Post by: deathjester on January 10, 2012, 09:40:46 AM
Just occurred to me: what would be the largest feasible calibre gunpod - could there, for instance, be something like a 105mm Gun Pod!?!
Title: Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
Post by: elmayerle on January 10, 2012, 10:36:22 AM
Just occurred to me: what would be the largest feasible calibre gunpod - could there, for instance, be something like a 105mm Gun Pod!?!
Only if carried on a B-52 or C-5.  ;)
Title: Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
Post by: deathjester on January 10, 2012, 05:25:08 PM
Hmm... the Heavy Aerial Sniper Pod....Hmm.....

Well, they hang everything else off of B-52's, so why not that!!  :o
Title: Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
Post by: GTX_Admin on June 01, 2014, 05:45:22 AM
GEPOD on F-16:

(http://i847.photobucket.com/albums/ab35/bobro15/AF-16A60930mm1_zps7d72efc8.jpg~original)
Title: Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
Post by: Rickshaw on June 01, 2014, 12:13:38 PM
Just occurred to me: what would be the largest feasible calibre gunpod - could there, for instance, be something like a 105mm Gun Pod!?!

Wing-tip 106mm RCL on Cavalier Mustang count?
Title: Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
Post by: Scooterman on June 06, 2014, 12:08:05 AM
Want to model this someday.  Second bird in.  GEPOD and Mavs?  Sign me up!
Title: Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
Post by: GTX_Admin on June 06, 2014, 03:03:45 AM
These were part of the A-16 / F/A-16 plans - a dedicated CAS bird.  More details here (http://www.f-16.net/f-16_versions_article18.html).

Here are some more/bigger photos:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/aar_zpsaad5a6a1.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/aab_zpsc28efef4.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/aas_zps7ef88837.jpg)

Would love to see a model done some day.
Title: Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
Post by: kitnut617 on June 06, 2014, 05:09:23 AM

Would love to see a model done some day.

Not quite, but I did build this years ago when I first saw those A-16 pics.  This is the old Airfix 1/72 F-16A/B kit
Title: Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
Post by: jcf on June 06, 2014, 07:37:16 AM
Built one years ago for my nephew with five gunpods in Canuck F-104-stylie all-green cammo.  ;D
Title: Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
Post by: GTX_Admin on June 06, 2014, 07:50:36 AM
Built one years ago for my nephew with five gunpods in Canuck F-104-stylie all-green cammo.  ;D


 ;D. I don't suppose you have any photos?

Sounds like a modern version of this:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/t0sw3b_zps1c9e287f.jpg)
Title: Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
Post by: ChernayaAkula on June 06, 2014, 09:20:32 AM
Sweet -16, Kitnut!  :) Any idea what you're going to do in terms of decals?

Since Euro 1 looks that good on the Viper, I suppose SEA wrap-around wouldn't look half-bad either....
Title: Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
Post by: Rickshaw on June 06, 2014, 10:20:48 AM
([url]http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/aas_zps7ef88837.jpg[/url])


While I suspect its the problem with colour reproduction, that what I assume is actually dark grey looks almost blue.  Makes an interesting alternative camouflage colour...
Title: Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
Post by: kitnut617 on June 06, 2014, 08:57:37 PM
Sweet -16, Kitnut!  :) Any idea what you're going to do in terms of decals?

I had thought of using some F-4 decals, but not found any.  Anyone got a suggestion for a decal sheet I could use ? 1/72 of course ---
Title: Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on June 07, 2014, 05:14:11 AM
Sweet -16, Kitnut!  :) Any idea what you're going to do in terms of decals?

Since Euro 1 looks that good on the Viper, I suppose SEA wrap-around wouldn't look half-bad either....
I had thought of using some F-4 decals, but not found any.  Anyone got a suggestion for a decal sheet I could use ? 1/72 of course ---

That particular variant of the F-16 never appealed to me as I considered it a waste of a limited resource.  However with that being said, it did spur the development and fielding of the GE 30mm gun pod so that was nice as it then became a scale model in the Hasegawa weapons sets and showed up in the Revell 1:32nd scale F-15E kit.  So it did prove useful for modelers :)  I know ESCI did offer a 1:72nd scale model with the appropriate decals for the A-16/F-16 in the European One Camouflage Scheme.  If you happen to find that old and out of production kit you would have at the very least a reference to the markings and painting.  I may have seen that kit on the shelf recently at the Skyway Model Shop (http://www.skywaymodel.com/). 
Title: Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
Post by: Weaver on June 07, 2014, 09:09:48 AM
30mm ADEN gun pods. The only one I know of is the Swedish one that was used on AJ-37 Viggens.

Were there any others?

(n.b. I mean generic pods that are hung on a pylon, not the aircraft-specific conformal pods mounted on Harriers and Hawks)
Title: Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
Post by: kitnut617 on June 07, 2014, 09:02:32 PM
That particular variant of the F-16 never appealed to me as I considered it a waste of a limited resource.  However with that being said, it did spur the development and fielding of the GE 30mm gun pod so that was nice as it then became a scale model in the Hasegawa weapons sets and showed up in the Revell 1:32nd scale F-15E kit.  So it did prove useful for modelers :)  I know ESCI did offer a 1:72nd scale model with the appropriate decals for the A-16/F-16 in the European One Camouflage Scheme.  If you happen to find that old and out of production kit you would have at the very least a reference to the markings and painting.  I may have seen that kit on the shelf recently at the Skyway Model Shop ([url]http://www.skywaymodel.com/[/url]).


Both the Monogram and Italeri 1/72 F-15E kits have the 30mm gun pod included and I have a couple of the Hasegawa weapons sets which have the pod too --

I could 'upgrade' my F/A-16 with one of them   ;)
Title: Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
Post by: GTX_Admin on June 08, 2014, 04:15:57 AM
30mm ADEN gun pods. The only one I know of is the Swedish one that was used on AJ-37 Viggens.

Were there any others?

(n.b. I mean generic pods that are hung on a pylon, not the aircraft-specific conformal pods mounted on Harriers and Hawks)


I can't think of any - it could be interesting to do something like the DEFA 30mm pod used on the MB339s though - perhaps on a Hawk?

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/dsc3974d_zps320b4074.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/dscf0015g_zpseab0909b.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/zet8091_zps46f9c7e6.jpg)

Or perhaps like the PLAMEN PL-20 20mm twin barrel pod on the L-159:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/images-12_zps657cd098.jpeg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/plamen_zpsd42a9667.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/1341350_zps35de3be5.jpg)
Title: Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
Post by: GTX_Admin on June 08, 2014, 04:37:51 AM
Speaking of gun pods, this has to be one of the coolest looking:  The GUV-8700 Gun Pod has 2x GshG 7.62mm & 1x Yak-B 12.7mm:

(https://sobchak.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/guv8700.jpg?w=640&h=414)
(https://sobchak.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/guv-8700hind1.jpg?w=640&h=483)
(https://sobchak.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/guv8700_2.jpg?w=640&h=447)
Title: Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
Post by: GTX_Admin on June 08, 2014, 04:44:15 AM
And then there are the ones like the SPPU-22 with depressible guns:

(http://www.foxbat.ru/maks/orshansky/orshansky190.jpg)(http://www.foxbat.ru/maks/orshansky/orshansky012.jpg)

Note that one can actually buy kits of these:

(http://web.ipmsusa3.org/sites/default/files/imagecache/review_cover_full/reviews/sppu-22-soviet-gun-pods/aerobonus_48001.jpg)
Title: Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
Post by: ChernayaAkula on June 08, 2014, 07:13:21 AM
Here's an SPPU-22 on a Su-22 at the Luftwaffenmuseum in Berlin-Gatow. Note that the pod is pointing aft. At first I thought that to be a mistake, but then I was informed that it was actually possible to mount and operate it that way. Apparently it is possible to designate a certain point to be attacked using the aircraft's HUD. The pod will then calculate the shells' trajectories and adjust the barrels automatically to keep the shells on the desired point of impact. This also works with the pod pointed aft, firing the guns after passing the target. I think there were some limits, though, such as keeping the wings level and maintaining a certain speed.

(http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m309/ChernayaAkula/SPPU22.jpg)
Title: Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
Post by: Rickshaw on June 08, 2014, 10:15:45 AM
The problem with those depressible gun pods was that the aircraft had to fly a pretty predictable course to make them work, which of course meant it was fairly easy meat for any defensive fire.  I understand it was more of a gimmick than anything and that the pilots preferred to lock them and fly their own attacks.
Title: Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
Post by: GTX_Admin on June 09, 2014, 05:20:05 AM
Something that gets revisited every once in a while: the trainable gunpod:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/imagejpg3_zpse9c2c7c6.jpg)(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/imagejpg2_zps435a00cb.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/imagejpg4_zpse28030b2.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/imagejpg5_zpsdfbe3aaf.jpg)
Title: Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
Post by: Rickshaw on June 09, 2014, 09:46:59 AM
I could see some use for that in A-to-A gunnery, if slaved to the radar and gun sight.  It'd give you a slight edge in a turning dogfight, being able to shoot that little bit more into the turn.
Title: Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
Post by: kitnut617 on June 09, 2014, 08:41:29 PM
The 'trainable' pod came into play with my CH-151 build (Mangusta), the helicopter has quite a 'tail-down' attitude when in the hover which meant a fixed gun pod wouldn't work as it would point upwards.  Being able to elevate the guns downwards while in this hovering mode opens the door for a lot of scenarios
Title: Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
Post by: kitnut617 on December 12, 2019, 03:44:48 AM
A question about LAU-10 FFAR pods.

Are they always painted white (or maybe it's a very light grey) ?  Have they ever been seen painted a green colour ?
Title: Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
Post by: GTX_Admin on December 13, 2019, 02:16:06 AM
I've never seen other than white/grey.  You could always do a field mod though...
Title: Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
Post by: kitnut617 on December 13, 2019, 03:40:39 AM
Thanks Greg, I agree with you, all the photos I can find show they're white/grey colour.
Title: Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
Post by: Volkodav on December 15, 2019, 07:37:19 PM
Here's a thought, a podded Molins Gun
Title: Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
Post by: GTX_Admin on December 16, 2019, 02:13:46 AM
Here's a thought, a podded Molins Gun


Given it wasn't exactly small:

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/55/68/68/55686821f8cd38f4d00ad9b3b59c9498.jpg)
(https://tabuksite.files.wordpress.com/2019/04/raf-molins.png?w=1726)

one would presumably be looking at a big pod.  Maybe a bit like these:

(http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/aww2/hs129/hs129-5.gif)
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/01/af/48/01af4813afb78fb21558a60ff04e2875.jpg)
Title: Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
Post by: ysi_maniac on December 16, 2019, 08:52:10 AM
Did germans produce or study during WWII, an airborne gun between 20 mm and 30 mm? I mean 25 or 27.5 mm or so. Kind of an ancestor of Mauser BK-27
Title: Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
Post by: Rickshaw on December 16, 2019, 11:51:31 AM
Did germans produce or study during WWII, an airborne gun between 20 mm and 30 mm? I mean 25 or 27.5 mm or so. Kind of an ancestor of Mauser BK-27

Not that I am aware of.  However, this is whiff-world so there is nothing stopping you postulating that they did...
Title: Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
Post by: kitnut617 on December 16, 2019, 10:54:28 PM
I wonder if the Molins loader could have been designed annular, so it could wrap around the breach instead of piling it all up on top like that.
Title: Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
Post by: GTX_Admin on December 17, 2019, 03:16:43 AM
Looking at the Hs129 further makes me wonder if one could do a similar arrangement on a Beaufighter.
Title: Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
Post by: ChernayaAkula on December 17, 2019, 10:50:54 AM
If they could - barely - make it work on the Hs 129, getting it to work on the Beau should be a piece of cake.  :smiley:
Title: Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
Post by: GTX_Admin on December 18, 2019, 02:04:20 AM
Real World trial with twin 40mm cannon:

(https://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/GTwiner092/Bristol_Beaufighter_R2055_with_40mm_guns_1941_zpsd19uzxcj.jpg)
(https://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/GTwiner092/i8q25qs4ytyy-2_zpsv7cy4hhw.jpg)

And one from one of our own:

(https://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/GTwiner092/IMG_9668_zps1vzpfjgq.jpg)
(https://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/GTwiner092/IMG_9675_zpsbkiuhk6g.jpg)
Title: Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
Post by: tankmodeler on December 18, 2019, 03:11:58 AM
I wonder if the Molins loader could have been designed annular, so it could wrap around the breach instead of piling it all up on top like that.
It's likely a lot easier. I'm pretty sure the Mollins loader was designed to fit the aircraft, i.e. the pilot, fuselage size and CofG considerations needed to put the system into an existing aircraft.

The A-10 went the other way and essentially built the aircraft around the gun.

Designing a podded gun and feed system to be an optimum pod is very likely (bound, to be, really) easier than fitting it into a pre-existing aircraft.

Paul
Title: Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
Post by: Rickshaw on December 18, 2019, 01:31:38 PM
I wonder if the Molins loader could have been designed annular, so it could wrap around the breach instead of piling it all up on top like that.
It's likely a lot easier. I'm pretty sure the Mollins loader was designed to fit the aircraft, i.e. the pilot, fuselage size and CofG considerations needed to put the system into an existing aircraft.

The A-10 went the other way and essentially built the aircraft around the gun.

Designing a podded gun and feed system to be an optimum pod is very likely (bound, to be, really) easier than fitting it into a pre-existing aircraft.

Paul

Mollins were, IIRC a cigarette machine manufacturer.  In otherwords, they designed machines that rolled and encased cigarettes.   I am sure they could redesign their autoloader quite easily to what ever shape the customer wanted.  I personally like the German 75mm loader pictured up above on the Hs129.  Circular but not annular as such.
Title: Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
Post by: tankmodeler on December 20, 2019, 02:13:02 AM
Mollins were, IIRC a cigarette machine manufacturer.  In otherwords, they designed machines that rolled and encased cigarettes.   I am sure they could redesign their autoloader quite easily to what ever shape the customer wanted.  I personally like the German 75mm loader pictured up above on the Hs129.  Circular but not annular as such.
Pretty sure you're right about Mollins.

As to a pod ammo system, I could see a "snail" drum of ammo coiling in towards the centre of the pod with a central operating rod driven by recoil that as the gun returns to battery pushes the next round from the end of the snail and offers it into the breech before being fired, ejecting the casing under recoil and then cycling the ammo feed system again. Could be relatively simple. I think? The German system rotates the ammo drum, but a fixed ammo snail would be simpler and allow more rounds. Might need something like a MG belt link or spacers in the snail rails, mind, to keep the rounds aligned in the snail.

Paul
Title: Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
Post by: apophenia on December 27, 2019, 08:17:32 AM
Mollins were, IIRC a cigarette machine manufacturer...

Molins still exists: https://www.molins.com/en/about-us/our-history (https://www.molins.com/en/about-us/our-history)

Oddly, no mention of the Molins Class M gun in their history section.
Title: Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
Post by: elmayerle on December 27, 2019, 09:52:55 AM
Mollins were, IIRC a cigarette machine manufacturer.  In otherwords, they designed machines that rolled and encased cigarettes.   I am sure they could redesign their autoloader quite easily to what ever shape the customer wanted.  I personally like the German 75mm loader pictured up above on the Hs129.  Circular but not annular as such.
Pretty sure you're right about Mollins.

As to a pod ammo system, I could see a "snail" drum of ammo coiling in towards the centre of the pod with a central operating rod driven by recoil that as the gun returns to battery pushes the next round from the end of the snail and offers it into the breech before being fired, ejecting the casing under recoil and then cycling the ammo feed system again. Could be relatively simple. I think? The German system rotates the ammo drum, but a fixed ammo snail would be simpler and allow more rounds. Might need something like a MG belt link or spacers in the snail rails, mind, to keep the rounds aligned in the snail.
In the extreme, perhaps something like the snail magazines used, IIRC, by Calico in the US on some carbines.
Title: Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
Post by: kitnut617 on December 27, 2019, 11:13:51 PM
In the extreme, perhaps something like the snail magazines used, IIRC, by Calico in the US on some carbines.

Whoa! had to go look at that Evan  :smiley:  Do you think that system could have worked with a big shell then ?  Certainly is along the lines of what I was thinking off.
Title: Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on December 28, 2019, 02:53:24 AM
The General Electric GAU-13 30mm Gatling Gun/Cannon pod (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GAU-13) utilized a helical ammunition magazine that wrapped around the Gatling gun within the pod. 
Title: Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
Post by: kitnut617 on December 28, 2019, 04:04:42 AM
Thanks Jeff, and IIRC the gun pod for the F-35 also has some sort of spiral magazine.

But what about the SUU-23, it's supposed to be able to have 1200 rounds, what sort of magazine does that have.
Title: Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
Post by: GTX_Admin on December 28, 2019, 04:15:16 AM
But what about the SUU-23, it's supposed to be able to have 1200 rounds, what sort of magazine does that have.


(https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=http://www.britmodeller.com/walkarounds/ordnance/suu-23/pod%252002.JPG&key=325711f72217d81e7cb9f06a6a8ccc67de59661a17824002b080f1c537f4ffdd)
(https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=http://www.britmodeller.com/walkarounds/ordnance/suu-23/pod%252003.JPG&key=96e3a7bc9db935a5b9f8bc2ffa5710ac0b3b948edb7073544855a4739aa351ce)
(https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=http://www.britmodeller.com/walkarounds/ordnance/suu-23/pod%252004.JPG&key=7d9c8d37c5fc11e11e49e6ce27584deb902d2ca4656fdfdc5c8bd5cbc82e7c20)
(https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=http://www.britmodeller.com/walkarounds/ordnance/suu-23/pod%252006.JPG&key=3321f5040416055e1dec383fc64dcc35875ffc0d8f4b91b92a35c79de394cd73)
Title: Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
Post by: kitnut617 on December 28, 2019, 05:14:01 AM
Thanks Greg, I've seen those photos before (research for a project I'm building), but all they are showing are the breach and loading mechanism, not the ammo storage system. The ammo is contained in the rear area of the pod.
Title: Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on December 28, 2019, 05:31:43 AM
On the SUU-19 and SUU-23 20mm Gatling Gun/Cannon pods the ammunition is carried in a drum that is very much like that used on the F-4E/F-4F Phantom II and the F-105 Thunderchief and the larger GAU-8 gun fitted to the A-10 Thunderbolt that has a capacity of 1350 rounds of 30mm.  All of these retain spent rounds after firing. 
Title: Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
Post by: kitnut617 on December 28, 2019, 06:55:52 AM
That's interesting Jeff, I've read that the A-10's GAU-8 only had 900 rounds ---

How did they get the drum into the SUU-23 ? It doesn't look big enough in diameter.
Title: Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on December 28, 2019, 09:33:30 AM
Not the same size ammunition drum as that used on the F-4E/F-4F and F-105.  Similar but not the same size drum magazine is also used with the M61 mounted on the F-16 and F-18. 

As far as the ammunition capacity goes for the GAU-8 as installed in the A-10 I was correct, but there is a clarification to that number:
Quote
GAU-8/A Avenger rotary cannon with 1,174 rounds (capacity 1,350 rounds) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairchild_Republic_A-10_Thunderbolt_II)
.  As for why the difference, I have no answer but that number (1350 rounds) has been the number given in many reference books on the A-10 aircraft and GAU-8 weapon.  The capacity will vary for each mission so 900 rounds for a typical sortie may be due to fuel and range constraints after all you do not need to carry a full load of fuel or weapons for every mission.  All of that is determined by the Air Tasking Order and the people that are tasked with flying the mission.


***edit for spelling/grammar error.--jjf
Title: Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
Post by: GTX_Admin on December 29, 2019, 03:30:01 AM
How did they get the drum into the SUU-23 ? It doesn't look big enough in diameter.

I think you will find it will fit...just:

(https://www.bevfitchett.us/heavy-machine-guns/images/3036_117_323-aden-gunpods.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/2802/4263213170_6666909eef_b.jpg)

As for reloading:

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/5b/89/b9/5b89b938c9e21e3e0b41b01a2759a1c0.jpg)
(https://sobchak.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/suu23.jpg?w=550&h=273&zoom=2)
Title: Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
Post by: kitnut617 on December 29, 2019, 03:33:21 AM
Hmm, it looks like the outer shell of the pod at the rear is also the outer shell of the drum. Now that explains a lot --- thanks Greg.
Title: Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
Post by: tankmodeler on January 03, 2020, 12:06:15 AM
The rounds on the GAU-8 and the M-61 area also arranged as a helical spiral with the rounds arranged radially, point in. That arrangement isn't gonna work on a 57mm or 75mm round unless you want a 5 or 6 foot diameter pod. They are gonna have to be arranged along the same axis of the gun, limiting the ability to store a lot of ammo unless there is another mechanism that advances ammo from a rear carousel to the front one, not impossible, just more complicated and probably requiring additional power to drive it versus using just gun recoil.

Paul