Beyond The Sprues

Current and Finished Projects => Physical Models => Aero-space => Topic started by: The Big Gimper on March 23, 2020, 08:23:50 AM

Title: T-33 Twin tail
Post by: The Big Gimper on March 23, 2020, 08:23:50 AM
A T-33 Twin tail smack down, no prisoners, winner takes all build between kitnit617 and The Big Gimper.
Title: Re: T-33 Twin tail
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on March 23, 2020, 08:31:58 AM
Let The Boss Battle Begin!  :smiley:
Title: Re: T-33 Twin tail
Post by: kitnut617 on March 24, 2020, 12:05:42 AM
I am going to repost the photos I found on SPF again here so you won't have to switch from thread to thread to see how close we get to the real thing.

This T-33, serial 514263 was converted to a Twin Tail as an early design for the TV-2 Seastar program but after some testing, wasn't continued with. The aircraft however still exists, although converted back into a standard T-33.

From Joe Baugher's USAF Serial Numbers website.

4263 modified by Lockheed with twin fins and rudders while being considered for the TV-2 deck landing trainer.
               Now mounted on pylon at K. I. Sawyer Heritage Air Museum, Michigan.
Title: Re: T-33 Twin tail
Post by: kitnut617 on March 24, 2020, 12:10:32 AM
I'll be using this Hasegawa kit. Carl and myself have decided to add a bit of spice to the thread, by just showing the boxing we're going to use and not reveal the tail modifications until each is finished. The build though is mostly just building a T-33 so nothing really exciting to show as the Hasegawa kit is quite basic. What changes to the tail though, are fairly minor, some fins and revised horizontal tail plane. The process of which will be revealed at the end.

Oh! and this is not a 48 hr build BTW ---- There's no way I'm going to rush a build like that ---    :P

The kit;
Title: Re: T-33 Twin tail
Post by: The Big Gimper on March 24, 2020, 01:13:01 AM
Same kit as Robert's. Just an older boxing.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49691069686_68cdd42cc2_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iH2HNN)
T-33-TT (https://flic.kr/p/2iH2HNN) by Big Gimper (https://www.flickr.com/photos/21812089@N02/), on Flickr
Title: Re: T-33 Twin tail
Post by: Frank3k on March 24, 2020, 01:18:42 AM
A P-38 Lightning can provide the tail surfaces with some trimming.

I'm cheering on the guy from Canada!
Title: Re: T-33 Twin tail
Post by: The Big Gimper on March 24, 2020, 01:22:25 AM
So is that Robert or me?   ;D
Title: Re: T-33 Twin tail
Post by: Frank3k on March 24, 2020, 02:07:15 AM
yes!
Title: Re: T-33 Twin tail
Post by: kitnut617 on March 24, 2020, 02:38:41 AM
Well, for a Hasegawa kit I'm really disappointed with it. Every part of it has a massive amount of flash included, it's so bad I thought Hasegawa had used some other manufacturers moulds. A check in the PAK-20 book reveals it's one of Hasegawa's first kits though.
Title: Re: T-33 Twin tail
Post by: Frank3k on March 24, 2020, 03:16:22 AM
It builds OK, though - some gaps, IIRC between the intake and the fuselage and between the ventral tail and the mating tailless fuselage, which shouldn't be a problem for this build.
Title: Re: T-33 Twin tail
Post by: Brian da Basher on March 24, 2020, 03:22:17 AM
Best of luck, Mr Gimper!

While that kit's a bit of an artifact, you can still make a quite creditable model from it.

Or you can build them the way I did.

Brian da Basher
Title: Re: T-33 Twin tail
Post by: Old Wombat on March 24, 2020, 07:49:42 AM
Carl may be starting with a slight advantage over Robert, here, as the older kit doesn't seem to have much flash at all.

Personally, I think Canada's going to win. ;)
Title: Re: T-33 Twin tail
Post by: elmayerle on March 24, 2020, 11:04:52 PM
Well, for a Hasegawa kit I'm really disappointed with it. Every part of it has a massive amount of flash included, it's so bad I thought Hasegawa had used some other manufacturers moulds. A check in the PAK-20 book reveals it's one of Hasegawa's first kits though.
IIRC, the original molds are on the order of 50 years old and I would expect a lot of flash in that case.
Title: Re: T-33 Twin tail
Post by: kitnut617 on March 24, 2020, 11:11:26 PM
Well, for a Hasegawa kit I'm really disappointed with it. Every part of it has a massive amount of flash included, it's so bad I thought Hasegawa had used some other manufacturers moulds. A check in the PAK-20 book reveals it's one of Hasegawa's first kits though.
IIRC, the original molds are on the order of 50 years old and I would expect a lot of flash in that case.

Yeah you're right Evan, 1970's. But I bought the kit back in 2002 time   :-X
Title: Re: T-33 Twin tail
Post by: apophenia on March 25, 2020, 12:01:50 PM
I'm cheering on the guy from Canada!

 ;D ;D ;D

This is gonna be fun  :smiley:
Title: Re: T-33 Twin tail
Post by: elmayerle on March 25, 2020, 12:38:14 PM
Well, for a Hasegawa kit I'm really disappointed with it. Every part of it has a massive amount of flash included, it's so bad I thought Hasegawa had used some other manufacturers moulds. A check in the PAK-20 book reveals it's one of Hasegawa's first kits though.
IIRC, the original molds are on the order of 50 years old and I would expect a lot of flash in that case.

Yeah you're right Evan, 1970's. But I bought the kit back in 2002 time   :-X
I could be wrong, but I believe it dates from the 1960's, I believe I remember seeing it in a hobby shop my freshman year of college (Fall, 1969 - Spring, 1970).
Title: Re: T-33 Twin tail
Post by: finsrin on March 25, 2020, 01:21:50 PM
Invigorating endeavor you two are taking on.

Is underlying reason for T-33 twin tail to park/maintain them in low cost low ceiling hangers ?
Title: Re: T-33 Twin tail
Post by: The Big Gimper on March 25, 2020, 07:47:46 PM
@Bill: From Wings of Fame, Volume 16

During the definition phase for the Lockheed T2V-1 SeaStar carrier-based trainer version of the T-33 Shooting Star, one T-33 was modified with twin vertical tails as part of program to see if the post-stall stability of the T-33 could be improved. The Navy had concerns about the stability in the carrier landing pattern of a naval adaptation of the T-33.

Aircraft 51-4263 was modified with an enlarged horizontal tailplane with rounded end vertical fins. The rear fuselage tailpipe was also modified and some accounts also note a rudimentary arresting system added to the underside of the fuselage as well. Various shapes and materials were also trialed on this particular aircraft before it was returned to stock T-33 configuration.

The project was never publicized by Lockheed and Naval History Office has no records of this aircraft. Sometimes called NT-33, according to two individuals who worked on it it had no formal designation. The twin tail configuration was never adopted for the SeaStar as Lockheed elected to enlarge the vertical fin and move the horizontal tailplane further up the fin on the production T2V-1.

Source: Wings of Fame, Volume 16. AIRtime Publishing/Aerospace Publishing, 1999, "T-Birds and Silver Stars: Lockheed T-33/T2V Variants by Robert F. Dorr, p111-112.
Title: Re: T-33 Twin tail
Post by: kitnut617 on March 25, 2020, 10:27:15 PM
I'm cheering on the guy from Canada!

But …. but …. Guy is Australian ----   ;D
Title: Re: T-33 Twin tail
Post by: Old Wombat on March 26, 2020, 12:04:23 AM
 ;D ;)
Title: Re: T-33 Twin tail
Post by: ChernayaAkula on March 27, 2020, 07:10:44 AM
<...>
Is underlying reason for T-33 twin tail to park/maintain them in low cost low ceiling hangers ?

To give a greater firing arc for the tail-gunner, surely.  :smiley:
Title: Re: T-33 Twin tail
Post by: zenrat on March 31, 2020, 06:04:22 PM
Well, for a Hasegawa kit I'm really disappointed with it. Every part of it has a massive amount of flash included, it's so bad I thought Hasegawa had used some other manufacturers moulds. A check in the PAK-20 book reveals it's one of Hasegawa's first kits though.
IIRC, the original molds are on the order of 50 years old and I would expect a lot of flash in that case.

Yeah you're right Evan, 1970's. But I bought the kit back in 2002 time   :-X
I could be wrong, but I believe it dates from the 1960's, I believe I remember seeing it in a hobby shop my freshman year of college (Fall, 1969 - Spring, 1970).

According to Scalemates the T33 mould dates from '69.
Title: Re: T-33 Twin tail
Post by: kitnut617 on April 18, 2020, 04:58:53 AM
OK, I'm calling my build done ---

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/9a2961ac-ae57-43b0-8be7-dd52bec3ef92.JPG)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/c5c2c0dd-f6b8-4adc-b8da-26b547c6710b.JPG)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/72743254-9880-4b58-8dff-e4824d8e2af8.JPG)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/3ea83912-dfc6-4896-ac88-1f1450ae285d.JPG)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/98608a3c-e180-4c53-a6fd-aecfeefbf5df.JPG)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/ddcd961b-96be-4129-85f1-6f62cc3ef2a6.JPG)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/ff1910e0-16b0-4dfb-846a-1c1cc1a9f4d4.JPG)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/02b1f141-d28e-4288-9a46-d210b0dc7ddf.JPG)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/bfbe7b40-f297-4297-bb8c-230b8a42fc4d.JPG)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/f06ddc64-df48-4752-b2bc-db92fb94d696.JPG)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/483b6cd1-af8e-4dc3-9e92-a33a6d423c35.JPG)









Title: Re: T-33 Twin tail
Post by: Frank3k on April 18, 2020, 05:12:05 AM
Wow - That looks amazing! What did you use for the tail? They look like B-25 fins.
Title: Re: T-33 Twin tail
Post by: kitnut617 on April 18, 2020, 05:18:25 AM
Much like what you had originally thought Frank, my first thoughts when seeing the photos was P-38 tail surfaces. Although they turned out not quite the same.

Here I had scaled the profile to match the kit fuselage, cut some fins off a P-38 boom and then re-shaped the fins. You'll notice the rudder hinge isn't in the same place either, I had to re-scribe them once I had done all the sanding.

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/658062c1-2c84-47b8-9f35-354088c97633.JPG)

Before the painting started.

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/32c3729d-1f3a-46d2-a8b3-98d434b66f71.JPG)
Title: Re: T-33 Twin tail
Post by: finsrin on April 18, 2020, 10:06:56 AM
Another iconic Lockheed twin tail.  Looks hard core 1950s.  8)
Title: Re: T-33 Twin tail
Post by: Old Wombat on April 18, 2020, 10:55:16 PM
 :smiley: :smiley:
Title: Re: T-33 Twin tail
Post by: kitnut617 on April 18, 2020, 11:42:17 PM
Thanks guys ---
Title: Re: T-33 Twin tail
Post by: The Rat on April 19, 2020, 01:30:03 AM
Oh yeah, that looks the business!  :smiley:
Title: Re: T-33 Twin tail
Post by: kitnut617 on April 19, 2020, 01:41:05 AM
Thanks Dave ---
Title: Re: T-33 Twin tail
Post by: GTX_Admin on April 19, 2020, 03:45:42 AM
 :smiley:
Title: Re: T-33 Twin tail
Post by: kitnut617 on April 19, 2020, 03:54:10 AM
Thanks Greg ---
Title: Re: T-33 Twin tail
Post by: Robomog on April 19, 2020, 08:03:50 AM
Nice one kitnut,  really .looks the biz  :smiley: :smiley: :icon_alabanza: :icon_alabanza: 8)

Mog
>^-.-^<
Title: Re: T-33 Twin tail
Post by: ChernayaAkula on April 19, 2020, 09:01:43 AM
Nice work!  :smiley:
Title: Re: T-33 Twin tail
Post by: apophenia on April 19, 2020, 09:45:51 AM
Dang that looks good! Excellent work  :smiley:
Title: Re: T-33 Twin tail
Post by: kitnut617 on April 19, 2020, 10:37:14 PM
Thanks Stephen, Moritz, Mog ----
Title: Re: T-33 Twin tail
Post by: The Big Gimper on April 24, 2020, 06:45:51 AM
Robert wins the race with an awesome build!  I'm the hare and he is the tortoise.

Mine will be a "production" version. Tail is from a F-84 and the Hobby Craft C-45. I've added "hooks" for the catapult bridle, arrestor hook and a tail bumper.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49811728087_e5d2c4719a_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iTG8m4)
CT-133N-01 (https://flic.kr/p/2iTG8m4) by Big Gimper (https://www.flickr.com/photos/21812089@N02/), on Flickr

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49811426571_30e2c027be_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iTEzHv)
CT-133N-02 (https://flic.kr/p/2iTEzHv) by Big Gimper (https://www.flickr.com/photos/21812089@N02/), on Flickr
Title: Re: T-33 Twin tail
Post by: kitnut617 on April 24, 2020, 07:16:36 AM
I can't wait to see your finished build Carl  -------