Beyond The Sprues
Modelling => Ideas & Inspiration => Aero-space => Topic started by: Jeremak on February 04, 2012, 06:11:44 AM
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For some days I thinked about alternate timeline, where Soviet Union build it's first carrier in interwar period, and later stay in "carrier game". But what planes would fly from VMF carriers? Some of my propositions:
prewar-early WW2:
I-15 series, R-5, maybe Su-2 redesigned for dive-bombing?
late WW2-before Korea:
propably some Lend-Lease types, Lavochkins, for torpedo and bombing duties... I don't think that Il-2 could be suitable for carrier ops. maybe next version of Su-2?
early jet-age: If La-5 and 7 were used during war, maybe Lavochkin would be still making carrier-based fighters, similar to his jet fighter projects? Maybe MiGs, or light Yaks would introduced int naval aviation? For attack duties: Tu-91?
60-ties? I have no idea. MiG-19?
70-ties, and early 80-ties: MiG-23, Su-25, CTOL, two-engine version of Yak-38 as a strike fighter?
late 80-ties and 90-ties: like in real, but maybe other planes?
Or anyone have different ideas?
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I like your thinking. My thoughts:
Prewar-early WW2:
Definitely I-15 series, moving onto I-153 and I-16.
Late WW2-before Korea:
The Il-2 might be useable. Or maybe Su-6 + La-5/7 or Yaks
Early jet-age:
Maybe even Su-5 or MiG I-250 before moving onto a Mig-15/17 version or even one of the Early jet Yaks or Las
60-ties?
MiG-19 derivative or even Su-17?
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Some inspiration here as well: Soviet Swordsman (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=65.0)
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Well, operating all-Su-24 airwing would be like operating F-14/F-111 airwing: less of bigger planes, or more of smaller planes. If sovier carriers wouldn't been as big as US supercarriers, but more in size of british, and french ships, smaller planes would be more suitable. I really like idea of CTOL Yak-38, serving in role of Jaguar and A-7. An also, how Su-25 could operate in style of A-6? Strike, jamming, airborne tanker.
And last thing: how good would be Kuznietsov, but bulid like classic carrier, without "jum ramp", and ASM, but with catapults, and bigger hangars.
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I'd think a navalised MiG-21 would work well.
Not that heavy and the wingspan is small enough that they'd not need to fuss about putting folding hinge into it.
They could replace the single ventral strake with a pair either side of the centreline to accomodate the hook. Beyond that, just give it an IFR capacity and I think it would be good to go.
I think the MiG-23 and 27 could be navalised in a similar fashion.
I would say the Yakovlev Yak-40 Codling would be an obvious choice for COD work.
I don't know about having Sukhoi Fitters of any sort on carriers. They are big beasts and I think you'd have to do some serious redesign of the main landing gear to avoid tail strikes on landings as the back ends of the Su-17/20 and 22 all sit pretty close to the ground as it is.
One thing I wonder is is you'd see the Soviet navy favouring one OKB and the air force favouring another so that you might see greater type differentiation between the services. Look at the long relationship between Grumman and the US Navy; how many Grumman types wore a navy uniform versus how many wore an air force one?
For example, in a Korean War context, you could have the air force in MiG-15s while the navy was offshore with carrier wings of Lavochin La-15s.
Most of the OKBs seemed to specialise in particular categories of aircraft, so one specialised for naval/carrier borne aircraft isn't too hard to imagine.
You could have Sukhoi and Mikoyan assigned to air force needs and Lavochin and Yakovlev assigned navy jobs.
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Didn't you have some turbopropped carrier-based Il-28s, Greg?
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If I remember correctly, a navalized MiG-23 was studied under the MiG-23K designation. Similar changes would probably have seen a companion MiG-27K attack aircraft. How about a navalized production version of the Ye-8 using a MiG-21MF as the starting point? Later versions could share a lot with the MiG-21Bis.
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Well, operating all-Su-24 airwing would be like operating F-14/F-111 airwing: less of bigger planes, or more of smaller planes. If sovier carriers wouldn't been as big as US supercarriers, but more in size of british, and french ships, smaller planes would be more suitable. I really like idea of CTOL Yak-38, serving in role of Jaguar and A-7. An also, how Su-25 could operate in style of A-6? Strike, jamming, airborne tanker.
And last thing: how good would be Kuznietsov, but bulid like classic carrier, without "jum ramp", and ASM, but with catapults, and bigger hangars.
The ships in my story were big (80,000t) and the aircraft weren't all Su-24s (though they were the dominant bird):
• Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-23K Tactical Fighter –a navalised version of the MiG-23ML, this served in the tactical fighter role in support of the Su-24s, though before long was phased out in favour of a larger Su-24 compliment;
(http://forum.keypublishing.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=75628&d=1113755234)
(http://paralay.com/atakr/23k2.jpg)
(http://s004.radikal.ru/i207/1011/be/374f191a009c.jpg)
• Korchagin Kor-1 Typhoon multirole carrier-based aircraft. Although part of a proposed family of aircraft, (including ground attack aircraft, air-to-air refuelers, AEW&C and Light transports) the Kor-1 was initially only selected to operate in the dedicated antisubmarine role.
(http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=353.0;attach=3251;image)
• Antonov An-71 – a variant of the Antonov An-72 transport aircraft, this fulfilled the role of organic AEW&C on the ships with up to four being carried. Its sister, the An-72K served in the COD role, though these were rarely based on ship.
(http://warfare.ru/image.aspx?img=0702ey70/update/jan2005/3/an71-2.jpg)
(http://cosmopark.ru/an71_2.jpg)
• Kamov Ka-27 – developed for ferrying, search and rescue and anti-submarine warfare, multiple variants of this design were carried. Intended to replace the decade-old Ka-25, it adopted a similar configuration to its predecessor due to the requirements of fitting in the same hangar space. Like other Kamov military helicopters it has a co-axial rotor, removing the need for a tail rotor.
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-yBiMlE0dPz8/Th8MVERiKmI/AAAAAAAAB5c/E9I8X8BdwK0/s1600/KA-27+-++KA-29+Helix++Helicopter+02.jpg)
Re the Su-25K, I think it would be closer to the A-7 in role.
Regards,
Greg
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Didn't you have some turbopropped carrier-based Il-28s, Greg?
I might have - will have to check resources.
I did do this:
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/More%20Creations/An-32K.jpg)
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Didn't you have some turbopropped carrier-based Il-28s, Greg?
I might have - will have to check resources.
'ere, lemme 'elp ya! ;)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/More%20Creations/Il-28TP.jpg)
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Ah yes...I thanks thee. Now if only there was 1/48 Il-28...
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Now if only there was 1/48 Il-28...
Sacrificial offerings of small woodland dwelling creatures to the deity's on high seems to have worked for this nugget of information was found only this morning in a comment posted on the ARC Forums: 1/48th scale Il-28 from HPH Models in the Czech Republic (http://amg.cdc.cz/kat112.html)
***removed link to image since it was no longer showing in my post.---jjf
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1/48th scale Il-28 from HPH Models in the Czech Republic ([url]http://amg.cdc.cz/kat112.html[/url])
Jeff, you have my undivided attention!!!
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1/48th scale Il-28 from HPH Models in the Czech Republic ([url]http://amg.cdc.cz/kat112.html[/url])
Jeff, you have my undivided attention!!!
I am but the messenger... ;)
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You know what you are... ;)
...anyway, to an important issue: what colour schemes would we see for these ideas? I am especially keen to see schemes for some of the early ones...I-153 in particular.
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That venerable biplane was the "Soviet DC-3" as far as versatility and ubiquitousness (is that REALLY a word?) goes, but reminds one of a Fairey Albacore. I have in mind a WWII carrier version, on skis (because of the icing of the deck) and with a torpedo (maybe with a REALLY pointy nose for breaking ice!!). A long time ago VEB Plastikart (E. Germany) made a "Colt" with its distinctive "scimitar" curved blades I wish I could get my hands on (I sold mine several years ago---DARN!). Trumpeter makes the current one I will try to purchase.
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Just stumbled across this on my hard drive!!
‘What If’ model of MiG-23K carrier-based ‘Flogger’ (by Raymond Biggs)
Very very nice :P
M.A.D
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One the idea i had for Soviet navy
(http://i.imgur.com/0wKyrF2.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/SUFLAUd.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/xQCOKoy.jpg)
I made a 3d model of the SM-12 and add the naval bits!
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Wow! :smiley: :smiley: