Beyond The Sprues
Modelling => Ideas & Inspiration => Sea => Topic started by: jcf on May 01, 2015, 01:44:27 AM
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Romanian river patrol monitors:
http://romaniaforum.info/board3-marina-romana-romanian-navy/board409-marina-militara-romana-dupa-1945-romanian-navy-after-1945/board675-romanian-navy-after-1945-danube-fleet/276-45-47-mihail-kogalniceanu-class-river-monitor/?s=e108a37ba7076c6e18a17036e27ea0e6ff8db999 (http://romaniaforum.info/board3-marina-romana-romanian-navy/board409-marina-militara-romana-dupa-1945-romanian-navy-after-1945/board675-romanian-navy-after-1945-danube-fleet/276-45-47-mihail-kogalniceanu-class-river-monitor/?s=e108a37ba7076c6e18a17036e27ea0e6ff8db999)
http://romaniaforum.info/board3-marina-romana-romanian-navy/board409-marina-militara-romana-dupa-1945-romanian-navy-after-1945/board675-romanian-navy-after-1945-danube-fleet/251-94-176-180-brutar-i-class-river-monitors-brutar-ii-class-river-monitors/ (http://romaniaforum.info/board3-marina-romana-romanian-navy/board409-marina-militara-romana-dupa-1945-romanian-navy-after-1945/board675-romanian-navy-after-1945-danube-fleet/251-94-176-180-brutar-i-class-river-monitors-brutar-ii-class-river-monitors/)
More Danube fleet stuff:
http://romaniaforum.info/board3-marina-romana-romanian-navy/board409-marina-militara-romana-dupa-1945-romanian-navy-after-1945/board675-romanian-navy-after-1945-danube-fleet/?s=e108a37ba7076c6e18a17036e27ea0e6ff8db999 (http://romaniaforum.info/board3-marina-romana-romanian-navy/board409-marina-militara-romana-dupa-1945-romanian-navy-after-1945/board675-romanian-navy-after-1945-danube-fleet/?s=e108a37ba7076c6e18a17036e27ea0e6ff8db999)
New 1/350 Brutar II kit from Radu Brinzan:
http://www.radubstore.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=22_154_159&products_id=633 (http://www.radubstore.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=22_154_159&products_id=633)
(http://www.radubstore.com/images/Brutar2.jpg)
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Interesting
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Romanians don't fool around on their rivers!
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Hmm, imagine a squadron or two of those patrolling the Mississippi River. Could make for an interesting whif in world where the US split along that river or didn't develop past it and the rest of the continent formed its own country or countries (the treaty signed in 1845 never happened and Texas stayed an independent republic, spreading out from its borders of the time?)
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Definitely gives me inspiration for something similar, but in 1/35. Off to find a suitable hull.
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Hmm, imagine a squadron or two of those patrolling the Mississippi River. Could make for an interesting whif in world where the US split along that river or didn't develop past it and the rest of the continent formed its own country or countries (the treaty signed in 1845 never happened and Texas stayed an independent republic, spreading out from its borders of the time?)
Some definitely interesting scenarios there...
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(http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=197.0;attach=14511)
(http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=197.0;attach=14513)
Two of the ROCN's only four ships capable of operating fixed-wing aircraft ever, modified riverine gunboats for floatplane operations over Yangtze River region.
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I love that second image.
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I don't know if this has been shared here before, but I present the Brazilian monitor Parnaiba (U17). She carries a 6-inch gun forward as well as various lighter arms, while the fantail supports a pad capable of landing Ecureil helicopters.
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That Brazilian gunboat looks like a Scaleorama Group build entry! "OK, take a PT boat hull, slap on a battleship's superstructure, make a landing pad in the rear and get some guns from a WWII destroyer, add some glue and paint... voila!"
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Good concept on PT boat based scaleorama. That would come up with something similar. :)
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Looked it up. Is 180 feet long. Shorter than Flower Class Corvette. Can be 1/72 kit.
Commissioned 1938 and still in service :icon_surprised:
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Highly likely these are of Soviet design origin.
Russia still has huge numbers of these things floating about:
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New one: North Sea Boats X18 Tank Boat:
(http://www.northseaboats.com/en/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/x18_range.jpg)
(http://www.northseaboats.com/en/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/18m-TANK-BOAT-2.jpg)
(http://www.northseaboats.com/en/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/unspecified22.png)
More details here (http://www.northseaboats.com/en/?menu-breakfast=x18-tank-boat)
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Romanian river patrol monitors:
([url]http://www.radubstore.com/images/Brutar2.jpg[/url])
So, what MLRS system would those be out of interest?
M.A.D
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Actually, Im really becoming intrigued and impressed with these Romanian river patrol monitor designs!
I think I will be able to incorporate them in my 'Alternative ADF ORBAT' (Scenario II)!!
M.A.D
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Operated by 32 Small Ships Squadron RAE?
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Operated by 32 Small Ships Squadron RAE?
Yeah Volkodav, RAN would love that!
M.A.D
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Just make sure they have enough Corvettes to train up their junior commanders and they wont give a stuff. The Patrol Monitors would be a great escort and support element for the LSM MkIIs.
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Ookaay, so where exactly would Australia use something like this? ???
They make sense for Romania; the Danube is a big river, shared borders with potential adversaries, etc.,
plus there is a history of river monitor use in the region going back to the mid 19th century.
"Danube River Flotilla: Established in 1860, the Romanian flotilla's primary missions were to prevent invading troops from crossing the Danube into Romanian territory and maintain the waterway as a supply and communications channel.The Flotilla was reestablished in 1995 and is responsible for border patrol, counter-proliferation, and crisis support."
http://www.amiinter.com/pdf/The%20Modernization%20of%20the%20Romainan%20Navy.pdf (http://www.amiinter.com/pdf/The%20Modernization%20of%20the%20Romainan%20Navy.pdf)
The MLRS are BM-21 122mm rocket launchers.
BTW they have a slightly larger class as well:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mihail_Kogălniceanu-class_river_monitor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mihail_Kogălniceanu-class_river_monitor)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ec/Romanian_river_monitor_F-46.jpg/1024px-Romanian_river_monitor_F-46.jpg)
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To patrol the east coast river systems in New South Wales as well as the Murray Darling system to counter dipsticks emptying their septic tanks into Sydney's drinking water and to stop the idiots who think draining rivers to irrigate rice and cotton crops in arid regions is a good idea. You wouldn't believe how well armed and aggressive some of these farmers and holiday shack owners are.
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/vile-giardia-bug-in-sydney-water/story-e6freuzi-1111113844198 (http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/vile-giardia-bug-in-sydney-water/story-e6freuzi-1111113844198)
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On a more serious note they would have historically been useful in littoral operations around Australia's north and when we were more active in the region. The difficulty of course would have been deploying them to where they were needed but then again it has been done before in WWII through to the confrontation and Vietnam conflict. This day and they would be of very limited utility and likely armed / armoured landing craft may have been better suited is some sort of gunboat was required.
These craft are not dissimilar to the ACPBs of the RAN that I am intimately familiar with, but obviously much better armed and I would assume much more durable and survivable. Remove the EEZ patrol function from the RANs PBs and role them as inshore and riverine PBs, only transiting open waters when safe to do so and seakeeping and speed becomes less important. Hark back to the Kamerian / Mussurian insurgencies and a variety of ship to shore armaments could be justified to provide support for landing parties, i.e. previous generations of patrol boats were also armed with mortars.
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The Romanian boats are impressive, but their length limits them to broad waterways.
Well, maybe something more Victorian/Edwardian with a steam-punkish vibe, paddle-steamers with tesla cannon,
or on a straighter more RW theme, modern paddle-wheelers with diesel-electric drive, or turbine electric, paddle-housings
armoured like a few of the USN Civil War period boats. ;D
(http://civilwartalk.com/attachments/h02739-u-s-s-lafayette-jpg.7830/)
Choctaw
(http://www.civilwar.org/photos/galleries/ships/images/the-uss-lexington.jpg)
Lexington
Heck, go Mad Max on the waterways in a post-apocalyptic scenario. ;D
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Well there is this.......
http://www.cerberus.com.au/labeleddrawing2.html (http://www.cerberus.com.au/labeleddrawing2.html)
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Well there is this.......
[url]http://www.cerberus.com.au/labeleddrawing2.html[/url] ([url]http://www.cerberus.com.au/labeleddrawing2.html[/url])
Is due for general overhaul and painting !
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Probably worth upgrading and returning to service ;)
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One can actually get a model of the HMVS Cerebus. See here (http://www.modelwarships.com/reviews/ships/hmas/cerberus/700-com/combrig-review.html)
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There is always this one that I found on DA sometime ago.
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or......
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What timeframe?
I came up with some plans for some small gunboats for my "Fury on the Lakes" 1/600 miniatures line, where the US and Canada fight on the Great lakes in WW1. Here is a US 56' armored gunboat
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/12376130_935415646496443_6632730996959642670_n.jpg?oh=b2ff7992518f6d8b4ce9f49bd143868b&oe=58F820B2)
Dave G
The PT Dockyard
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Ookaay, so where exactly would Australia use something like this? ???
The MLRS are BM-21 122mm rocket launchers.
Thanks jcf for the MLRS type clarification!
so where exactly would Australia use something like this? ???
Ok, so in my 'Alternative ADF ORBAT', I have decided to incorporate a kind of 'chose your own destiny' like scenario where Australia can take two course in geo-politics and effects on its alliances. In Scenario 2, due to Australia's resolve to counter Indonesia's nationalist fervour and open hostility, Australia not just participates in countering Konfrontasi (1963-1966), Australia politically and militarily opposes Indonesia's invasion of Irian Jaya in 1961, due to its threat to its administration of New Guinea (the memory of New Guinea being used as a gateway to isolating and invade Australia by the Japanese in WWII, was only but 20 years earlier and.still acutely raw in the memory of all Australia).....Australia is forced to withdrawal its military support in Vietnam to counter Indonesian political and military expansion, which strains US/Australian relations.... Australian/Indonesian relations are strained even further when the Australian government diplomatically protest the 'US political and military support of Indonesia's invasion of East Timor in 1975, as Australian intelligence denotes the US support being fundamental to the Indonesian invasion and occupation!'.....The US ups the ante by imposing arms restrictions against Australia, at a time when Indonesia openly threatens war against Australia in retaliation for its opposition to its invasion of Timor....Although in my Australia 'Alternative ADF ORBAT', Australia is far more self-sufficient in terms of military indigenous R&D, manufacturing, and operations, as a consequence of the lessons of WWII, its bad blood in Scenario 2, forces Australia/ADF to source and jointly develop weapons and weapons systems from other isolated countries like South Africa, Rhodesia, Taiwan and Israel. Indonesia's continuous aggression and incursion against and in Timor and New Guinea forces the ADF to create its own Riverina Force, to counter Indonesia's use and exploitation of coastal, rivers and waterways within Timor and New Guinea. Hence Australia seek out and find the Romanian Smardan/Brutar II-Class River Patrol Monitor design, and hence Australia licence-builds them to a customised need (which in reality would probably more akin to the Mihail Kogălniceanu class in terms of weapons layout).....
Its still a work in progress, but I'm slowly getting there mate! :P
M.A.D
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Soviet Cold War Riverine Craft
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MAIN CHARACTERISTICS
Overall length, m..........................16.55
Overall width, m......... ............ 4.85
Width at midship frame, m......4.25
Side height, m............... ................... 1.40
Side height with bulwark, m ....... 2.20
Loading platform length, m....... ....10.0
Width of the loading platform, m........4.0
Light displacement, t ...........15.0
Load capacity, t ...... ...................25.0
Engines ......2 diesel engines with 35 hp each.
Fuel consumption, l/hour
.
..
10.0
Capacity of fuel tanks
.2*500 l
Speed, knots........................... ......6.5
Crew, people.................................... .2
Housing material.................................steel
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Class [RRR] - R1.2 (ice10) ('RRR' means 'riverine')
Length overall - 21.2m
Length constructive - 20.0m
Beam overall - 4.0m
Beam constructive - 3.8m
Depth - 2.3m
Draft - 1.3m
Crew, persons - 6
Engines power - 1х148hp
Speed, km/h - 18
Material of the hull - steel
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Class and type Flamingo class Patrol boat
Displacement: 31.8 long tons (32 t) standard
57 long tons (58 t) full load
Length: 21.2 m (69 ft 7 in)
Beam: 3.93 m (12 ft 11 in)
Draft: 1.4 m (4 ft 7 in)
Installed power:1 auxiliary 300 hp 3D12L diesel generator
Speed: 12 knots (22 km/h; 14 mph)
Range: 800 nmi (1,500 km; 920 mi) at 9 kn (17 km/h; 10 mph)
200 nmi (370 km; 230 mi) at 11 kn (20 km/h; 13 mph)
Endurance: 5 days
Boats & landing craft carried At least one rigid lifeboat.
Capacity: 17 long tons (17 t) of cargo or 27 passengers
Complement: 8
Armament: 1 14.5mm marine pedestal machine gun mount
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22.0m Soviet R-96 Tug
Navigation area: river
Type: Tugs
Project: R-96
Flag: Russia
Registration: main
Construction date: 1974
Construction place: USSR
Register: RRR
Symbol of the Register Class: R1,2
Length over all: 22.0 m
Width: 5.5 m
Board height: 1.4 m
Free board: 0.7 m
Draught max.: 0.7 m
Gross tonnage: 120.0 t
Deadweight: 6.7 t
Displacement: 46.0 t
Dock / Light weight: 39.0 t
Engine model: 3D6
Main engines quantity: 1
Main engines power: 150.0 h.p.
Autonomy: 3
Speed: 16.0 kn
Hull material: steel
**Fig. 16. General layout diagram of the pusher tug pr. R96B:**
a) longitudinal section;
b) main deck plan;
1 - wheelhouse;
2 - bumpers;
3 - forepeak;
4 - living cabins;
5 - captain's cabin-mechanic;
6 - engine room;
7 - steering compartment;
8 - sand lock;
9 - skipper's storage room;
10 - provision storage room;
11 - aft
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23.0m Kizhi type (16601 project) River general cargo vessel
Avanguard shipyard Petrozavodsk Russia
Small cargo ship with a capacity of 66 kW.
Type of vessel: single-deck motor ship with a stern arrangement of the engine room and superstructure, with inclined stem and tunnel stern, with steel hull.
Purpose of the vessel: depending on the modification, the vessel is intended for the transportation of various general and bulk goods, oil products and passengers.
Place of construction: SZ "Avangard" ( RSFSR, g. Petrozavodsk ).
Register class and navigation area: "O", inland waters, small rivers. classified as "O"
Main power plant:
The main engine K-161-MP-2 diesel engine with reverse gear, with a power of 66 kW ( 90 hp ).
Engine four-blade steel propeller of a fixed step.
The main sources of energy:
GSK-1500 type generator with a rated power of 1 kW, voltage 27.5 V.
Main characteristics:
Length: 23 m
Width: 3.76 m
Board height: 1.5 m
Displacement in cargo: 50.5 t
Precipitation average in cargo: 0.79 m
Displacement: 28 t
Deadweight: 22.08 t
Features:
Cargo hold capacity: 50 m3
Trum 1: 25.7 m3
Trum 2: 24.3 m3
Autonomy of swimming in drinking water reserves: 3 days
Swimming range: 900 km
Flight Duration: 8 h (100 km)
Speed: 13 km / h
Modification Capacity:
freight: 20 t
freight and passenger: 15 people + 20 t
passenger: 30 people
According to www.kateratut.narod.ru (http://www.kateratut.narod.ru)
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24.5m Project 1176 Akula Landing Craft
Project 1176 Akula class/Ondatra Class
Origin: Soviet Union
Type: Landing Craft Mechanized
Complement: 4 to 6
Dimensions -
Displacement: 118.7 t full load, 60.3 t standard
Length: 24 m
Beam: 6.0 m
Draft: 1.5 m at full load, 1.0 m without cargo
Propulsion -
Machinery: 2x Barnaultransmash 3D12 diesel
Power output: 2x 300 hp
Propulsion: 2 shafts, four-blade fixed pitch propellers in rotary nozzles
Mobility -
Speed: 11.5 knots maximum, 10 knots practical
Range: 330 nm at 10 knots, 500 nm at 5 knots
Autonomy: 2 days
Cargo capacity -
Payload: 50 t
- Personnel: 20 equipped troops
- Vehicles: 2x GAZ-66 4x4 tactical truck or 1x T-72 tank
Cargo area: 12.5 m x 3.6 m
Sensors -
Navigation radar: Mius or Don
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More of same
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25.0m Soviet PROJECT 570A Tug
A single-deck pusher towing vehicle with a developed tank, a deck superstructure (there is a wheelhouse), a single-shaft power plant and a water-jet propulsion system. The vessel pusher is used for towing and pushing non-self-propelled vessels.
The vessel has a power of 220 kW with the following main dimensions and main characteristics:
ADDITIONAL TUG DRAWINGS:
Name Power
Single screw tug 730d Power 500 hp
Shallow draft tug 730a Power 300 hp
CHARACTERISTICS:
Overall length Lgb = 25.15 m
Length at design waterline Lkvl = 23.3 m
Overall width Vgb = 5.35 m
Width at midship frame H = 5.2 m
Board height H = 1.6 m
Forecast side height N p = 2.3 m
Overall height - according to non-removable parts from the OP
But = 6.65 m
Medium draft when fully loaded Ngr = 0.79 m
Vessel class according to the Russian River Register "R"
Crew 7 people
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25.9m Soviet Project 730A Tug
The vessel's towing vehicle is a single-deck water-jet motor ship. It has a developed forecastle, a superstructure of sanitary and service spaces, in the forward part of which there is a lowering wheelhouse. Can be operated with a crew of up to 7 people and is designed for towing and pushing non-self-propelled barges.
The vessel has a power of 300 hp, the following main dimensions and main characteristics:
ADDITIONAL TUG DRAWINGS:
Name Power
Single screw tug 730d
Power 500 hp
Water jet pusher tug 570a
Power 220 kW
CHARACTERISTICS:
Overall length Lgb = 25.92 m
Length at design waterline Lkvl = 23.5 m
Overall width Vgb = 6.75 m
Width at midship frame H = 6.6 m
Board height H = 1.4 m
Overall height - according to non-removable parts from the OP But = 6.85 m
Average draft when fully loaded Тgr = 0.67 m
Vessel class according to the Russian River Register "R"
Crew 7 people
OCR mishmash
Rice. 16. Layout of the pusher tug, pr. R966:
you raar 6 -p pakh main palLb s; / - DUNEVA bitch: 1 - Stops: J - forephk; 4 - residential quarters 5 - ayu gaha ihahhvv; b - MO; ) -ruipellioe ogde x B - ahapas: - shkhmpershav treasures 10 - provnahokhian g yaadovvya& //g�ila
(I love machine translations)
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30.4m Soviet Project 730D Tug
A single-screw tug-pusher with a wheelhouse on a deck superstructure. It has a water-jet propulsion system, an elongated hull, one deck, and a hold. Possibility of operation with a crew of up to 7 people.
Purpose: towing and pushing non-self-propelled river barges and other water transport.
The vessel has a power of 500 hp, the following main dimensions and main characteristics:
ADDITIONAL TUG DRAWINGS:
Name Power
Water jet pusher tug 570a Power 220 kW
Shallow draft tug 730a Power 300 hp
CHARACTERISTICS:
Overall length Lgb = 30.36 m
Length at design waterline Lkvl = 28.0 m
Overall width Vgb = 6.76 m
Width at midship frame H = 6.6 m
Board height H = 2.4 m
Overall height - according to non-removable parts from the OP Ngb = 7.85 m
Crew 7 people
Medium draft when fully loaded Тgr = 0.9 m
Vessel class according to the Russian River Register
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42.4 m Zhenya class minesweeper - project 1252
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Soviet Cold War Riverine odds & sods
7.4m Harbour Boat & Border Guard Small Boat Project 378
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13.5m Russian Fireboat
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Soviet Early Cold War weapon mounts for your whiffs
DShK, DSHKM, DT & DTM
Single Mount: DShK
Twin Open Mount: DShKM-2
Quad Mount: DShKM-4
Single Open Turret: MTU-2
Twin Open Turret: MSTU
Twin Armored Turret: DShKM-2B
Weight
DShK: 429.9 lbs. (195 kg)
DShKM-2: 595.3 lbs. (270 kg)
DShKM-2B: 2,764.6 lbs. (1,254 kg)
MTU-2: 352.7 lbs. (160 kg)
MSTU: 661.4 lbs (300 kg)
Elevation
DShK: -34 / +85 degrees
DShKM-2: -10 / +85 degrees
DShKM-2B: -5 / +85 degrees
MTU-2: -10 / +85 degrees
MSTU: -10 / +85 degrees
Elevation Rate
DShK: Manual Operation Only
DShKM-2: 60 degrees per second
DShKM-2B: 25 degrees per second
MTU-2: N/A
MSTU: 54.5 degrees per second
Train 360 degrees
Train Rate DShK: Manual Operation Only
DShKM-2: 16 degrees per second
DShKM-2B: 15 degrees per second
MTU-2: 16 degrees per second
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KPV 14.5mm HMG
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23mm 2A7 Autocannon
Note that these mounts have a 'tub' below them which requires the mount to be elevated or for it to penetrate a deck
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57mm AZP S-60
Three Pages:
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Class and type Flamingo class Patrol boat
The caption on the first one says Large Hydrographic Cutter - or does that count as a patrol boat?
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I think it was a multi-use hull. After the end of the USSR a lot of vessels were repurposed but I can't be sure. I don't speak Russian :(
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57mm ZIF-71 Single Mount
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57mm ZIF-31 Twin Mount
Mount/Turret Data
Designation
Russia / USSR Open Twin
◦ Submarine AA Mount: SM-24-ZIF, SM-24-ZIF1
◦ AA Mount: ZIF-31, ZIF-31B, ZIF-31BS, ZIF-31S
Weight
SM-24-ZIF: 16,094 lbs. (7,300 kg)
ZIF-31B: 23,810 lbs. (10,800 kg)
Elevation
SM-24-ZIF: -6 / +85 degrees
SM-24-ZIF1: -0 / +85 degrees
ZIF-31: -10 / +85 degrees for all versions
Elevation Rate
SM-24-ZIF: 20 degrees per second
ZIF-31, -31B: 25 degrees per second
ZIF-31BS, -31S: 22 degrees per second
Train
SM-24-ZIF: -147 / +147 degrees for (Pr.611 subs)
SM-24-ZIF: -140 / +140 degrees for (Pr.613 subs)
ZIF-31: -200 / +200 degrees for all versions
Train Rate
SM-24-ZIF: 25 to 30 degrees per second
ZIF-31, -31B: 30 degrees per second
ZIF-31BS, -31S: 27.5 degrees per second
Gun recoil
9.35 -12.52 in (23.5 -31.8 cm)
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57mm ZIF-75 Quad Mount