Beyond The Sprues

Modelling => Group and Themed Builds => Canadian GB => Topic started by: Leading Observer on August 11, 2026, 06:27:48 PM

Title: What-if Gloster got an Overseas Order for the Javelin?
Post by: Leading Observer on August 11, 2026, 06:27:48 PM
Going to have a crack at this GB - just got to find the kit in my stash :(
Title: Re: What-if Gloster got an Overseas Order for the Javelin?
Post by: GTX_Admin on August 12, 2026, 12:35:06 AM
 :smiley:
Title: Re: What-if Gloster got an Overseas Order for the Javelin?
Post by: apophenia on August 12, 2026, 07:10:05 AM
I like it!

Maybe 'CF-103' Javelin for closer-in defence? (The CF-100 Canuck had much longer legs but the Javelin was over 150 mph faster than the 'Clunk'.)
Title: Re: What-if Gloster got an Overseas Order for the Javelin?
Post by: Kerick on August 12, 2026, 08:00:59 AM
I like it!

Maybe 'CF-103' Javelin for closer-in defence? (The CF-100 Canuck had much longer legs but the Javelin was over 150 mph faster than the 'Clunk'.)

This sounds like a good one!
A Javelin with underwing tanks? How much would that have affected its performance?
Title: Re: What-if Gloster got an Overseas Order for the Javelin?
Post by: apophenia on August 12, 2026, 09:23:05 AM
... A Javelin with underwing tanks? How much would that have affected its performance?

Well it wasn't called 'The Dragmaster' for nothing!  ;D

Still, you do see images of Javelins carrying both 230 Imp. gal. drop tanks on wing pylons plus side-by-side belly tanks. The latter on their own were more common, though (kept the inboard pylons free for missiles).
Title: Re: What-if Gloster got an Overseas Order for the Javelin?
Post by: Kerick on August 12, 2026, 12:14:16 PM
I remember talking to the airborne FACs we used to work with about their aircraft. They flew the A-37 version of the T-37 Tweet trainer. They were saying the drag of the four under wing tanks pretty much cancelled out any increase in range. Might apply here as well.
Title: Re: What-if Gloster got an Overseas Order for the Javelin?
Post by: Leading Observer on August 12, 2026, 11:15:55 PM
Found the kit:
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q70/922/iUA8ag.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pmiUA8agj)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q70/922/nJQPxx.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pmnJQPxxj)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q70/921/WRlIZE.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/plWRlIZEj)

Scalemates says it was a new too; back in the by Polish firm Plastyk back in 1995. I have no idea how accurate or otherwise it is, but it looks close enough for Whiffing-work. I have the Freightdog FAW9/R Nose correction for the old FROG kit, but as this is this isn't going to be a RAF aircraft, I might leave it OOB. It does have the wing tanks as an option along with the IFR probe and 4 missiles that look Firestreakesque
Title: Re: What-if Gloster got an Overseas Order for the Javelin?
Post by: Kerick on August 13, 2026, 02:20:47 AM
Conformal tanks might be the solution here!
I remember an old Javelin kit I built as a kid. Plastic a thick as a brick wall and Sparrow looking missiles that looked like they were made from concrete. But I had fun with it!
Title: Re: What-if Gloster got an Overseas Order for the Javelin?
Post by: apophenia on August 13, 2026, 05:14:47 AM
Found the kit:

The 'Flatiron' on the box top appears to have fired off one Firestreak(esque) already ... which the pursued Badger seems to have shrugged off!
Title: Re: What-if Gloster got an Overseas Order for the Javelin?
Post by: Kerick on August 13, 2026, 06:06:28 AM
Maybe it’s going after a second one. It’s possible!
I look at some of these missiles and think about how in the world would it knock down a bomber that big? A fighter type? Sure. A four engine bomber? Not with one shot that’s for sure. While I was in Iraq IIRC a C-17 took off and got hit in the engine with a Stinger type missile. It just circled around and landed then got the engine replaced the next day and flew out again. I know a MANPAD is much smaller than a Sparrow type but they just don’t look adequate for a bomber. But of course not every aircraft can lug around something as big as a Phoenix missile either. Capability vs practicality vs cost I suppose. I know if I were defending my country against nuclear armed bombers I would want the biggest bat on the field.
Title: Re: What-if Gloster got an Overseas Order for the Javelin?
Post by: Buzzbomb on August 13, 2026, 07:51:13 AM
Like the idea of this  :smiley:

Found the kit:
The 'Flatiron' on the box top appears to have fired off one Firestreak(esque) already ... which the pursued Badger seems to have shrugged off!

Or going after number two  ;)
Title: Re: What-if Gloster got an Overseas Order for the Javelin?
Post by: apophenia on August 13, 2026, 08:04:24 AM
... But of course not every aircraft can lug around something as big as a Phoenix missile either...

That makes you wonder if the Javelin mightn't have been better off with just 2 x larger AAMs. That said, the DH Firestreak had a 50 lb annular warhead ... or less than half that of the later Phoenix but still not bad for a missile designed in 1951.

By comparison, Firestreak contemporaries like the AIM-4 had 7.5 lbs; AIM-9 up t0 20 lbs; AIM-7C had 65 lbs; with the heavy hitter being the AIM-47 with 100 lbs. Two of the latter would make an interesting option ... although a single AIM-47 Falcon weighed more than 200 lbs more than a pair of Firestreaks. So, there's that ...
______________________________________

"It was a cup of good intentions; A tablespoon of one big mess; A dash of overreaction; I assume you know the rest"
Title: Re: What-if Gloster got an Overseas Order for the Javelin?
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on August 13, 2026, 10:37:16 AM
Now is the time to find a set of late mark Avro Vulcan wings and mate those with the Javelin. 
Title: Re: What-if Gloster got an Overseas Order for the Javelin?
Post by: Kerick on August 13, 2026, 11:24:00 AM
This is going to be a fun build to watch no matter what! It looked like that kit had some sort of belly tank so that will be cool. It would really be strange if there were conformal tank on top like the F-16 or Typhoon. I’m just speculating, build it the way you see it.
Title: Re: What-if Gloster got an Overseas Order for the Javelin?
Post by: apophenia on August 14, 2026, 05:05:14 AM
Now is the time to find a set of late mark Avro Vulcan wings and mate those with the Javelin.

Scale-o-rama ... I like it! And it is plausible since both Avro and Glosters were under Hawker Siddeley at the time  :smiley:

BTW Jeff: To add to my embarrassment, having previously never heard of your "All Your Bases Belong To Us" meme, that phrase now shows up in all sorts of my Google searches!  :-[
Title: Re: What-if Gloster got an Overseas Order for the Javelin?
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on August 14, 2026, 05:33:55 AM
Now is the time to find a set of late mark Avro Vulcan wings and mate those with the Javelin.

Scale-o-rama ... I like it! And it is plausible since both Avro and Glosters were under Hawker Siddeley at the time  :smiley:

BTW Jeff: To add to my embarrassment, having previously never heard of your "All Your Bases Belong To Us" meme, that phrase now shows up in all sorts of my Google searches!  :-[
And all this time I thought I was the out of touch old guy/village elder on this forum :smiley: 
As silly as that "All your bases" meme is, it was definitely one of the originals that deserves to be memorialized. 
Title: Re: What-if Gloster got an Overseas Order for the Javelin?
Post by: apophenia on August 15, 2026, 05:22:52 AM
And all this time I thought I was the out of touch old guy/village elder on this forum :smiley:

I could arm-wrestle you for the title ... but first I've gotta wait for the arthritis meds to kick in  :smiley:

As silly as that "All your bases" meme is, it was definitely one of the originals that deserves to be memorialized.

Indeed. And as time marches on, I'll likely be memorialising all kinds of things that I've never heard of before ...  :-\
Title: Re: What-if Gloster got an Overseas Order for the Javelin?
Post by: kim margosein on August 27, 2026, 10:08:09 AM
IIRC Sinapore got some, but they were used to train mechanics and not airworthy.
Title: Re: What-if Gloster got an Overseas Order for the Javelin?
Post by: Leading Observer on September 14, 2026, 03:13:30 AM
A little progress, with more fettling and PSR to follow:
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q70/924/Ly2L1Y.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/poLy2L1Yj)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q70/921/EqgasI.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/plEqgasIj)

Pen Nib exhaust courtesy of Stuart at Machina Models. I also have a Freightdog nose correction which I am debating using
Title: Re: What-if Gloster got an Overseas Order for the Javelin?
Post by: apophenia on September 14, 2026, 07:01:19 AM
Off the a great start!  :smiley:

For those following along bit by bit:

-- https://www.scalemates.com/kits/machina-models-011-gloster-javelin-early-pen-nib-exhaust--1685248 (https://www.scalemates.com/kits/machina-models-011-gloster-javelin-early-pen-nib-exhaust--1685248)

-- https://www.scalemates.com/fr/kits/freightdog-models-fdr72097-gloster-javelin-faw9-9r-nose-correction-set--987338 (https://www.scalemates.com/fr/kits/freightdog-models-fdr72097-gloster-javelin-faw9-9r-nose-correction-set--987338)
Title: Re: What-if Gloster got an Overseas Order for the Javelin?
Post by: Kerick on September 15, 2026, 10:07:21 AM
That looks like a beast! Keep us posted!
Title: Re: What-if Gloster got an Overseas Order for the Javelin?
Post by: Leading Observer on September 17, 2026, 11:42:07 PM
Mocking up some intake tubes:
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q70/924/S4cf8G.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/poS4cf8Gj)
Title: Re: What-if Gloster got an Overseas Order for the Javelin?
Post by: apophenia on September 18, 2026, 04:19:51 AM
Mocking up some intake tubes:

Some serious fettling going on here  :smiley: :smiley:
Title: Re: What-if Gloster got an Overseas Order for the Javelin?
Post by: The Rat on September 18, 2026, 11:35:43 PM
As far as underwing tanks go, the underslung tip tanks on the early P-80 actually increased the speed a bit by acting as a kind of upside-down winglet. Might work on the Javelin. (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9b/Production_P-80s_af.jpg?utm_source=en.wikipedia.org&utm_campaign=imageinfo&utm_content=original)
Title: Re: What-if Gloster got an Overseas Order for the Javelin?
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on September 19, 2026, 05:10:21 AM
What about mating the wings of the Arado E555 with the Javelin fuselage in the same fashion that Old Wombat did with his Tornado bash? 
Title: Re: What-if Gloster got an Overseas Order for the Javelin?
Post by: Leading Observer on September 20, 2026, 06:41:20 AM
A little more progress - the wings leave a lot to be desired. The upper starboard wing tip is short shot and there are numerous sink holes to be filled
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q70/923/FXobdO.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pnFXobdOj)