Beyond The Sprues
Current and Finished Projects => Physical Models => Land => Topic started by: Frank3k on November 23, 2024, 01:05:47 AM
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...or dither, waver, vacilate, seesaw. I can't make up my mind on how to build this.
I have a Tamiya M-41 kit and a hull donated by Jeff. I don't want to build it OOB and I don't like the existing turret. Years ago (in the M41 thread) I posted images of the same kit with a LAV-25 turret and a short Cadillac-Gage turret with a 90mm Cockerill gun from an LAV-150... but no, that's not what I want:
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1635/23649692694_019fd517b7_o.jpg)
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1684/24195373521_06f466d71b_o.jpg)
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1441/23982311150_706712d4d0_o.jpg)
Carlos also posted some drawings in the same thread (https://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=4222.msg73212#msg73212) that got me thinking.
I have a 1/35 paper model of the LAV-25, so I extracted the turret made it bigger and cut it out of styrene. Here's a very rough view (I've since sanded things down a bit):
(https://i.imgur.com/jXQSWfA.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/eRPOv2n.jpg)
Still not what I want. I found a picture of an M41 with a Stingray turret and 105mm gun:
(https://i.imgur.com/1miNPe2.png)
I used the image to get an idea of the shape and made one in styrene and 3D printed one on my filament printer. Maybe getting there. This is what it looks like on the computer:
(https://i.imgur.com/kB7brUG.jpg)
For the other hull, I was thinking of something like the SLA T-54 APC:
(https://www.super-hobby.com/zdjecia/3/8/7/32454_rd.jpg)
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One of these days I’ll build my M41 assault gun version with a 90 or 105mm gun. Someday.
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Or one of each ;)
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Oh, this is gonna be good!
Have you given any thought to markings yet, Frank? (The Bundeswehr was always looking for new roles for their leKPz M41s.)
I love the idea of an autocannon-armed recce M41 but your Stingray turret turns the Bulldog into a tank killer. It makes me think of the Austrian Jagdpanzer SK 105 Kürassier - another 105mm-armed tank destroyer with relatively thin armour.
Back on the recce concept, your MG-festooned SLA T-54 APC reminds me of turretless Stuarts used in WW2 as light reconnaissance tanks :smiley:
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I think I'll make it as some random South American country.
This is what I've done so far. I flattened my 3D Stingray-ish turret and printed out the flattened sections. I glued the paper to some sheet styrene and cut and glued away. The turret on the cutting board has mostly straight sides - a build mistake. the one on the tank is closer to the design.
I also printed the turret in PLA. That'll probably go in the trash.
My first pass at this concept of a plan for the M41 was cutting out the top of the original turret. That was a mistake, so it's glued back on and most of the cuts hidden under Mr. Surfacer:
(https://i.imgur.com/Xz62yNd.jpg)
Here's a side view of the turret on the hull. It will sit lower than this; the turret ring isn't touching the hull:
(https://i.imgur.com/1ckwMxv.jpg)
I could have sworn I had another M-41 deck piece (or a couple) but I only have the lower hull and track that Jeff sent me, which should be fine for the second version.
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That's a lot of turrets to choose from. The LAV and Stingray turrets both look good.
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Nice :D the M41 Stingray has been on my to-do list for awhile, I look forward to seeing your progress.
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It's more a "Stingray inspired" rather than an accurate representation.
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Nice work on all of them.
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This is going to look super cool with all the tank greeblies installed!
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Almost done with the 3D model version; I just need to fix a few things and make sure the turret ring will fit on the modified (I removed the locking tabs) Tamiya M-41 ring. I've tried to make it printable, but who knows how well it'll work.
The wind direction sensor is based on the M1 design:
(https://i.imgur.com/Vjhiq2u.png)
The turret bustle rack/basket and rear round loading hatch:
(https://i.imgur.com/uIK38c7.png)
I added some sensors and a fume extractor:
(https://i.imgur.com/eCUAzy3.png)
The gun mantle should slide in and catch on a rod:
(https://i.imgur.com/VvdC6iS.png)
Still need to add a .50 cal mount support and smoke grenade tubes, although I may use spares. Anything that I should add that I've missed?
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I hope your efforts will not be in vain and that turret will print successfully.
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I hope your efforts will not be in vain and that turret will print successfully.
Ditto on that!
Maybe smoke grenade launcher, tool boxes and or stowage racks? Radio antenna mounts?
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I added the radio antenna at the rear, smoke grenade launchers and a shield for the mantle. I'll use an aftermarket M2 0.50 cal and mount. The turret bustle can take all sorts of stowage.
(https://i.imgur.com/uvyQeuT.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/E3U72g6.png)
This will be a 6-7 hour print!
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The 3D turret looks great. Nice CAD skills.
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Really digging all the optional turret arrangements on display.
The M41 is a really good base for all sorts of whiffery.
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I liked it with the Commando turret in the first shot, but the Stingray concept is looking mighty good.
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Looking really cool!
But there is never enough stowage. Especially for all the souvenirs.
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:smiley::smiley::smiley:
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I printed the turret today and it came out surprisingly well, despite the crappy resin I'm using. No major flaws, although I knocked off the smoke grenade launchers while removing the supports. The mottled appearance is in part from the resin and in part because I cleaned some dust off with isopropyl :
(https://i.imgur.com/c1al0wK.jpg)
I taped together the kit's original barrel. I'll make a 105mm barrel or use one from a Tamiya Leopard:
(https://i.imgur.com/03BuBL0.jpg)
Here are the other bits. I somehow screwed up the commander's hatch; I may reprint it or just back it with plastic. I may also redo the grenade launchers or just reattach them. The turret bustle came out, despite the thin railing rods. I broke off the basket rods on the bottom of the basket, but I'll replace them with a mesh. Removing the support from the upper railing won't be fun - I may just replace that with copper wire:
(https://i.imgur.com/p14MDWb.jpg)
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The print looks like it came out well, a bit more cleaning and some primer and you''l be good to go :smiley:
Seeing the print on the model tho the front of the turret looks to long and unbalanced IMO, If it were me I'd make it shorter and I'd taper the front angle more so it ends at the mantlet.
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Once you attach the bustle rack and fill it with stuff it will balance visually. In a real world turret I have no idea.
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The print looks like it came out well, a bit more cleaning and some primer and you''l be good to go :smiley:
Seeing the print on the model tho the front of the turret looks to long and unbalanced IMO, If it were me I'd make it shorter and I'd taper the front angle more so it ends at the mantlet.
I didn't really take good measurements of the original turret and just scaled everything by the model's turret ring, so it is bigger. Here's the Thai version:
(https://i.redd.it/iy62lic648491.jpg)
I'll add the bustle rack, which should help balance it out... or make it look even bigger.
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Certainly changes the look :smiley: :smiley:
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I made the turret slightly smaller (mainly in the vertical). I'll start the print tomorrow.
(https://i.imgur.com/fOgzpmw.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/VuQEdMI.png)
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Almost screwed this print! I inadvertently made the walls about 0.6mm thick, so the print is paper thin. I broke some bits off removing the supports.
Compared to the original print. Missing chunk where the TC's optics are, but at least I didn't snap off the smoke grenades (although I knocked off the hatch handles):
(https://i.imgur.com/ciPOV3i.jpg)
Side view. Not as tall:
(https://i.imgur.com/CiCUrvv.jpg)
I checked with a figure and if the TC and gunner sit on the turret ring connection, they'll have enough room:
(https://i.imgur.com/CiCUrvv.jpg)
I also found a couple of figures. One is a guy on a cellphone. The other is of Steve McQueen. I scaled them to 1/35:
(https://i.imgur.com/lseS5Se.jpg)
Here's the turret primed. It still needs some work, mainly removing some dust and smoothing out the CA I used to glue the broken bits:
(https://i.imgur.com/vxYXwfo.jpg)
Steve standing on the turret, because he's cool like that:
(https://i.imgur.com/n2gSB9L.jpg)
Closeup. From this angle it doesn't look like a good resemblance, but it really is:
(https://i.imgur.com/X9OVctJ.jpg)
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Coming along nicely. The smaller turret looks a lot better.
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I agree the smaller turret looks better. Both look great. I’m looking forward to see what you do with the rest of the hull.
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The new turret looks a lot better 8) The smaller size is more in proportion with the hull and having the connections between side plates angle backwards instead of forward makes it visually flow better IMO.
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You could put Steve McQueen in the drivers position. He loved driving whatever he could get his hands on. Or just have him standing along side. Steve McQueen could stand anywhere he wanted.
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Yep, that second-print turret looks sooo good! And Steve serves well to show the scale :smiley:
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Really like the Steve McQueen figure. Definitely needs some B&L Sunglasses.
As far as the turret goes, the second attempt looks a bit more suited for the purpose. The first attempt was huge, especially in height over the original turret. Staying with the 76mm gun gives more credence to the reconnaissance/scouting mission with secondary role of infantry support. Pretty much what the original purpose of the M41 was intended for but with a better looking turret.
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Jeff,
I was thinking of upgunning it to a 105mm, but it does look good with the original gun.
I did some work on the body and added another layer of primer to the turret. It's very delicate and I've cracked it twice already.
I added some armor to the front to protect the driver, as well as side skirts. I'll fix the tow hooks later:
(https://i.imgur.com/H1niJe5.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/5Ewyiof.jpg)
I replaced the hatch handles with some sprue:
(https://i.imgur.com/RrXEYQP.jpg)
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Here's the Steve McQueen I used (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:6533632). It's 1/32 but I scaled it to 1/35.
(https://cdn.thingiverse.com/assets/e1/e3/3e/e5/e0/large_display_33148c36-5b29-4e75-a6bf-42e4fea430ae.png)
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I do like the idea of staying with the original 76mm gun. If there were a way to add a thermal insulation cover to the gun barrel that did not require any extra effort it would certainly give it an updated appearance to match the new fire control system.
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Just great all around. The new turret works well, fully agree that smaller is better
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Steve is just so cool!
I think you’re on a great path here!
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Bullitt 2000AD ;)
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I do like the idea of staying with the original 76mm gun. If there were a way to add a thermal insulation cover to the gun barrel that did not require any extra effort it would certainly give it an updated appearance to match the new fire control system.
How about wrapping it with PVA glue soaked tissue?
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Some fine modifications going on here. That turret just looks right on the M41.
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I was thinking of upgunning it to a 105mm, but it does look good with the original gun.
Having gone to all the hassle of dramatically changing/enlarging the turret, it seems a little strange/unlikely that the owners would stick with the old weapon system. Whilst the Stingray turret did carry a 105mm gun, I agree that it looks a little overbearing on the M41 hull, so perhaps go for a midway solution and mount a 90mm gun…
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Don’t forget, it’s not just the size of the actual gun but the ammunition rounds too. A small increase in diameter of the shell usually carries a significant increase in the length. In the same storage space you would get fewer rounds of 90mm compared to 76mm and even far less 105mm. A big punch is great but if you’re out of bullets life really sucks.
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Don’t forget, it’s not just the size of the actual gun but the ammunition rounds too. A small increase in diameter of the shell usually carries a significant increase in the length. In the same storage space you would get fewer rounds of 90mm compared to 76mm and even far less 105mm. A big punch is great but if you’re out of bullets life really sucks.
True, but the Belgians converted some of their M41s with a new turret (considerably smaller than the Stingray) with the Cockerill 90mm gun (claimed to have a performance not dissimilar to the Royal Ordinance 105mm L7) and could carried 40-45 rounds (hull and turret) compared to the original 57 rounds of 76mm. The larger Stingray turret might have allowed a greater number of ready rounds to be carried, perhaps giving a total of 50(?) - not bad for the vastly improved performance…
(https://i.imgur.com/cPUSHEH.png)
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That’s such a small looking turret! Add a couple radios and sighting system and I can’t imagine getting much else in there!
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It looks terrific, especially the McQueen figure, though now I'm picturing the tank in a Le Mans paint scheme...
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Thanks for the discussion so far. The 105mm gun might be a bit much; I think Jeff is right; as a scouting tank, it wouldn't need to be the biggest gun in the field; just enough to do a credible job against whatever it found, then scooting back.
Also, I don't have a suitable 105 yet. Claymore's image of the Cockerill 90mm gun let me to experiment with the existing barrel. The 90mm I have is for the smaller 2 man turret on the HobbyBoss LAV 150:
(https://www.scalemates.com/products/img/4/6/9/106469-10404-pristine.jpg)
But with just minor surgery, I can make the existing barrel much closer to the longer 90mm Cockerill. Parts are drying now. I may add some thermal blankets to bulk it up slightly
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Here's what I have so far. Some of the parts are not fully cured/set or even glued. The two part epoxy putty (ProCreate) is great; it stays somewhat flexible after cure (slightly softer than styrene) so it can be worked a bit afterwards.
The muzzle break and the barrel end are Kotobukiya detail parts that have been drilled to the right size:
(https://i.imgur.com/oDcpkAJ.jpg)
Here it is on the turret:
(https://i.imgur.com/5jlkViY.jpg)
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:smiley: :smiley: :smiley:
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Hello Frank,
It's amazing what you can do with CAD knowledge. The tank looks good.
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Looking good. This keeps giving me ideas.
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(https://i.imgur.com/pYvgdBf.jpg)
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You might want to try removing some of the paint on that ball & see what it really is.
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ-A-2dmuesHmbFHzT1_kfCms1CUvv4LgmTEAHDKs2SzgWXtICDXOKF-nwb4KEFeH9vBmU&usqp=CAU)
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Don't know about the ball, but the hull looks really well done!
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Thanks for all the comments!
Fresh coat of olive drab on the tank. There's a slight shade difference between the turret and hull; the turret has a green primer under the OD and the hull is in black primer. It makes it appear as if the turret is a new addition to the older hull:
(https://i.imgur.com/PV9OMMu.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/u3cWxQd.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/0lvtkYZ.jpg)
Now to paint the tracks, add the "glass" parts to the turret vision ports and sensors, maybe add one or both of the spare fuel tanks from the "Apocalypse" tank and start weathering.
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Your involved work is paying off. Looking impressive. :smiley:
Heck of a modernization program. 8)
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Well done! It’s an interesting combination of 1950s and 2000s tech. Did you put any clear parts into the drivers scopes yet? I can’t quite tell from the pics. I’m interested to see what you do with that part.
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For the driver's station, I used the clear Stryker viewing blocks that came as "freebies" in the AFV Club M151 RWS. They fit well; just a slight trim.
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that looks right. :smiley:
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that looks right. :smiley:
It certainly does. And your green primer for 'new' and black primer for 'old' bits was inspired, Frank :smiley:
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For the driver's station, I used the clear Stryker viewing blocks that came as "freebies" in the AFV Club M151 RWS. They fit well; just a slight trim.
Perfect! I probably would not have thought of that. And I’m lucky enough to have those parts. I will be transplanting the scopes for the commander to the roof of the assault gun so those parts might fit there. I little creative gizmology.
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I think I'm done with this. No backstory, other than a country with cranky neighbors with improving weapons decided to upgrade their surplus of M-41s with a Stingray-like turret and a Cockerill 90mm LP gun. This is one of the tanks after a brief run through the hills.
(https://i.imgur.com/9Pblzlp.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/4JRYYwn.jpg)
Our French mechanic, for scale:
(https://i.imgur.com/ixnucQk.jpg)
Thanks for all the comments and suggestions.
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Long live Elbonia!
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Long live Elbonia!
Huzzah!
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Looks great :smiley:
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Big tick... that works :smiley:
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Great job! Why is the guy scratching his head? Wondering why there's a tank in the middle of his corn field?
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Excellent work on this conversion project!
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That came out great! What's the co-axial MG from, by the way? It looks sort of familiar, but I can't place it.
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Looks like a .50 cal with the blast deflector.
Awesome job on this!
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Thanks, guys. It was somewhat fun just tinkering with turrets until the final design stuck.
That came out great! What's the co-axial MG from, by the way? It looks sort of familiar, but I can't place it.
I used one of the .50 cal barrels from the Academy 1/35 U.S. Machine Gun Set (https://www.scalemates.com/kits/academy-1384-machine-gun-set--134472)
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Looking great! :smiley: