Beyond The Sprues
Current and Finished Projects => Physical Models => Land => Topic started by: ChalkLine on August 05, 2024, 06:39:44 PM
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So the saw came out and I've started on the M41 Bulldog.
The premise is:
After NATO went over the East/West German border the counter-thrust from the WTO pushed NATO back to the Rhine, splitting the NATO forces. The French armed forces warned any WTO forces approaching within 10km of the French border would initiate a nuclear strike. By a heroic effort that virtually annihilated their forces the Spanish, Belgian and French armies stop the WTO thrust just short of the Alpha Line and allowed the other NATO nations, reinforced by REORGER at great cost, to strike from the flanks. It goes on but that's enough to describe the background of this vehicle.
This vehicle is one of the repurposed obsolete stocks taken from inventory and rebuilt as best as can be. As the 76mm gun tubes are all shot out it has been re-armed with an M139 105mm howitzer from storage after Belgium converted its M108s into M109s. The vehicle has no indirect fire capability and is built for infantry close support. Modern optics and electric turret drive replace the obsolete Korean War era versions, a Detroit Diesel 8V-71T engine and the vehicle is up-armoured with applique armour. The vehicle has an M26 cupola M2TTHB .50 cal mount similar to that of the YPR and Lynx vehicles.
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Let's get cutting.
So this image of butchery, equal parts of lack of skill, arthritis and the knowledge that it'll be largely covered in applique armour, shows the start.
1) Ugly, ragged hole of cupola chopped out to be filled with sheet stock containing new M26 cupola with .50cal M2TTHB HMG
2) Equally ragged hole of loader's hatch cut out from underneath with a scriber in an effort to keep the splash guard. I'm really not looking forward to thinning the plastic here to create a lip for the new hatch. Good news is the hatch survived largely intact so I can measure off it.
3) Goodbye to that rear storage bin! This will be replaced with a rack for jerry cans (T2K is a fuel-poor setting and these things run on some magical alcohol that doesn't make sense but hey, the setting is cool). The storage rack should protrude far enough to the sides that the new side-racks will butt up against it neatly.
4) Old pintle mount cut off and sanded back. A 0.5mm square sheet of plastic stock with tine holes drilled in each corner will be 'welded' here to make it look like the pintle was unbolted.
5) The old mechanical-optical drive has been removed and a new plate is to be 'welded' over the hole. I'm tossing up fabbing a Leopard 1 panoramic sight and mounting it here but I'm not sure if it'd either work/fit or be needed with the blunderbuss.
I'm not sure what to do about the mantlet. I might fab up a new one.
I DL'd the M139 105mm .stl yesterday, next up is (mis)adventures in 3D printing.
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Go to it! :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:
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This is really interesting. Keep doing what you’re doing!
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Looks like the M26 cupola is out.
Scaling off a plan into 1/35 gives it a (huge) diameter of 32.0mm at the base of the offset turntable. However that's all saved for a future project. I really liked the M26 because it didn't have much penetration into the turret.
The redoubtable Mr Fontane offered me an M1 cupola off an M48A1 but on checking they weigh in at around 650kg, too much for a light tank I feel. I must look further afield it seems.
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The turret surgery looks better than I imagined. The cupola hole looks workable/fixable.
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The turret surgery looks better than I imagined. The cupola hole looks workable/fixable.
You will not I slipped with the razor saw and put a cut in the side of the turret :D
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@Chalkline - That turret looks very familiar to what I attempted and abandoned a few years back. Save for the loader's hatch which I left intact. Thankfully the Tamiya M41 is readily available and priced low (in most locations) that if mistakes are made the replacement costs are not astronomical.
Your mention of Leopard I parts is also not unfamiliar as I looked to the Leopard 1A4 turret as a possible replacement for that asymmetrical M41 turret. While my own project is stalled and on the extreme back burner of motivation I hope you proceed without interference to a more successful outcome.
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Sounds to be an interesting model coming up.
Some first class hackage as well.. I like it :smiley:
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How’s this project going? Looking forward to more of this one.
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How’s this project going? Looking forward to more of this one.
Hardly any work done I'm afraid as I'm packing the house up to move and getting it clean (as well as taking former flatmate to court which rolls my guts).
I have to get the 3D print worked out next to fit the turret as I want to scratch-build the French cupola and that means having the cupola ring filled once it's in place. I've also run into problems with the putty, I should have listened to that voice in my head that says "buy cheap, buy twice" before getting cheap putty as a back up to the Milliput.
To go inside are some free 3D-print M19 periscopes I want to learn how to size so they fit in things.
So, so far:
- cut out the rear fenders. To have a large muffler one side and small the other for the APU. I also want to make up some mesh in CAD but have to learn how to do solids (I was a surveyor so we didn't do solids, everything was planes). Replaced with stock and they're getting their lip put on them now.
- front applique points on, misaligned due to magnifying visor parallax and this is where the Milliput disaster struck. Not sure how to fix this. May have to get covered in stowage to just hint at what's underneath. I'm very disappointed here. I also cut the front and rear fender-flaps at an angle to show it was a Belgian M41.
- filled the top of the turret's cupola-plate. The very thin rain-lip(?) went which was sad, it looked good. Most of it was in the actual cupola moulding though. I also cut off all the periscopes as I'll replace them with Leopard 1 versions. The pintle mount went too as it was both not needed and woefully inaccurate, I ran into a lot of problems getting new drill holes lined up squarely on the tiny plate that has to replace it. It was recommended that I glue it to something with PVA to keep it steady while drilling, I might try that or simply drill it before cutting it out.
- chopped out the turret ring. All the hatches are open so this was needed. I might just add a bit of greeble on the interior turret right under the hatches and some seats to make it look right and to practice with.
- drilled out the mount for the gun-lock as the 105mm uses a little stubby one up front.
Next;
- I have to the print gun barrel and see how it fits on the 'trunnion' in the kit. I then have to make up a exterior mantlet applique kit.
- Then I have to heat the sheet plastic in hot water and make applique sheets for the turret. I'll be experimenting with new weld beads first.
- Then scratch-build the cupola. This will be complex, it's the one off the old AMX-13. I might consider doing this in CAD if I don't think I can get it to look regular. Of special concern are the armoured bumps between the periscope apertures, getting eight of those exactly the same might be difficult.
- I have to buy some decal sheet and laser print some Belgian markings, this should just be fun research
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This is where the applique armour goes next
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Busy! Busy! Busy! :D
Unfortunately, none of it kit related. :icon_crap:
Hopefully the move goes smoothly & everything else resolves itself quickly & positively (for you). :smiley:
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Busy! Busy! Busy! :D
Unfortunately, none of it kit related. :icon_crap:
Hopefully the move goes smoothly & everything else resolves itself quickly & positively (for you). :smiley:
Thanks, it's a real pain. I liked it here and there was a big yard for the dog.
I might do this kit again once I've got more experience with the aspects of the build. I'm not even close to the stowage racks yet and they'll be the hard part :)
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Sorry to hear about the move and all that mess. It would really put a dent in model mojo.
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Sorry to hear about the move and all that mess. It would really put a dent in model mojo.
Yeah, I think that may have added to the mistakes I made. I was kinda looking to mellow out but wasn't really concentrating
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When the move is done and you get settled in then get back to it. It’s frustrating no matter what.
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Had a bit of time to think.
I'll cut that disastrous glacis plate off and replace it then put on a 1mm stock sheet spaced up as the SABRA composite armour along with the turret armour.
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Just a quick whinge
So after the debacle with the upper glacis I trimmed back the applique plates and chiselled off the milliput with a scriber (I love those things). I then cut a new monolithic plate to cover the three skewed applique plates and use them as a spacer. It turned out shorter again! I measured that thing more than twice and I was a surveyor before I studied history, I'm good at measuring.
I decided to use this piece as a test piece to work out where the applique-fixing bolts would go. I got out my aftermarket resin sheet of bolt heads out, gently applied a new, sharp blade to it and it promptly snapped into three pieces, right across the bolt heads and not the spaces in between naturally.
At that point I decided to walk the dog and cool down.
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Just a quick whinge
So after the debacle with the upper glacis I trimmed back the applique plates and chiselled off the milliput with a scriber (I love those things). I then cut a new monolithic plate to cover the three skewed applique plates and use them as a spacer. It turned out shorter again! I measured that thing more than twice and I was a surveyor before I studied history, I'm good at measuring.
I decided to use this piece as a test piece to work out where the applique-fixing bolts would go. I got out my aftermarket resin sheet of bolt heads out, gently applied a new, sharp blade to it and it promptly snapped into three pieces, right across the bolt heads and not the spaces in between naturally.
At that point I decided to walk the dog and cool down.
Remember: We do this for fun! ;D
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When I made my Taiwanese Type 64 I made the turret's applique armour by taking a sheet of paper clamping it to the side of the turret and then trimming it down until it was the correct shape. I could then take it off an use it as a template to cut the thicker plastic card. The same technique might be useful for your turret armour too.
(http://migeater.net/models/typ64_01.png)
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That's a brilliant technique and I'll definitely adopt it.
All my kits and stuff are going into a container for an unknown amount of time though so this will happen when I get a place again.
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Still haven't got the modelling bench set up but it shouldn't be too far away.
My engine swap for the M41 has been finalised. It's the Detroit Diesel 8V-92TA as used on the Oshkosh M1070 TTTU. Statistics comparison is as follows:
Detroit Diesel Model 8V-92TA DDEC II, 500hp @ 2100 rpm Proposed new engine
L: 110–120 cm
W: 97–99 cm
H: 120–130 cm (Raised 32cm: 9mm @ 1/35)
KG: 1,064–1,095 (+235.9kg)
Continental AOS-895-3, 500hp @ 2,800rpm Original M41 Engine
L: 120.5 cm
W: 131.0 cm
H: 88.42 cm
KG: 859.1 kg
So at 1/35 this engine needs a 9mm rise in the centre of the engine deck to cover the height of the turbocharger. This is also where the exhaust will exit so there'll have to be a hole on the side of it. My idea is to rise the forward two thirds of the engine deck and have two holes in the side spacers inserts, one for the engine exhaust and one for the APU exhaust. Both exhausts will run onto a single fender and I'll make a new exhaust system and use the bare fender as stowage.
Really, the turbo could just be reposition to one side of the engine, the new engine is much thinner and it would be the same height. The idea remains the same though.
I might have to move the engine deck grilles around.
Images, the new engine to give an idea of the shape and the exhaust from the nifty Japanese Type 74 SPG as to what sort of muffler I'd like to try.
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And then after a little more research the idea falls apart.
I wondered why the diesel conversions always have this big fan installation at the back. Looking at images of the Continental AOS-895-3 engine it becomes apparent; the petrol engine is a flat-opposed engine with the fans of top.
I'm really not a 'fan'* of that fan deck. I don't think an M60-style vertical rear fan setup would work as the transmission sits right next to the rear of the hull. I'm wondering if the fans could somehow go vertically beside the engine but that would probably mean vulnerable side intakes under the fenders. Time for more thought.
Images: Continental AOS-895-3 engine and Uruguayan diesel conversion
(*Yes, I know. Lame)
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This is very helpful as I’ve taken a saw to the old Tamiya Bulldog kits in my stash last night. I think Brazil did the same thing with some of their M41s IIRC. I said kits as I lengthed the hull by one road wheel making six on each side which leaves me with a four wheeler I don’t know what to do with right now.
I’ve been thinking about how to change the engine deck to something like the M48, M60 series. I have a 1/48th M60 kit I could possibly cast a copy of the deck. Otherwise I might cobble together some assorted spare parts. Didn’t the M48, M60 series draw air in from the top of the deck and exhaust it out the back grills along with the engine exhaust? I remember tank crews and infantry guys telling me about standing behind the tanks in the winter trying to stay warm.
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If you want info on US equipment this is the site to go to:
http://afvdb.50megs.com/usa/index.html (http://afvdb.50megs.com/usa/index.html)
Click on the images below the stat boxes and it will take you to another page with an extremely in depth article replete with images from technical manuals on the vehicle.
Looking at the M60 engine it appears each bank of cylinders had a turbo and the exhaust goes upwards. The rear vents are labelled 'transmission rear access doors' so I don't think they're an exhaust but rather an intake that sucks air past the transmission.
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This is very helpful as I’ve taken a saw to the old Tamiya Bulldog kits in my stash last night. I think Brazil did the same thing with some of their M41s IIRC. I said kits as I lengthed the hull by one road wheel making six on each side which leaves me with a four wheeler I don’t know what to do with right now.
Racing tank! :D
I can't find them right now but Claymore did a couple or three excellent racing tanks! 8)
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This is very helpful as I’ve taken a saw to the old Tamiya Bulldog kits in my stash last night. I think Brazil did the same thing with some of their M41s IIRC. I said kits as I lengthed the hull by one road wheel making six on each side which leaves me with a four wheeler I don’t know what to do with right now.
Racing tank! :D
I can't find them right now but Claymore did a couple or three excellent racing tanks! 8)
Now that’s one I would have never thought of! I need some big giant exhaust pipes sticking up in the air!
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Finally.
The new donk is the German FFG M41 Repower Package which means that looking from the front a single exhaust pipe would go onto the right rear fender. Annoying, because the APU exhaust exits on the mid left of the engine deck just behind the turret.
As a bonus parts are interchangeable with the Warrior ICV.
Yes, this dribble is important to me, why do you ask? :)
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That’s interesting. They really shoe horned that into the existing space.
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That’s interesting. They really shoe horned that into the existing space.
Yeah, there's no 'woops I dropped the spanner' room there now for sure
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...The new donk is the German FFG M41 Repower Package ...
Thanks for the details on the FFG re-engining scheme. And it makes historical sense for FFG to be pitching to the Danes ... I mean because of the precedents, not for any Danish irredentism towards Flensburg ;)
Still, I was surprised by the M41 DK1 connection. I had always assumed that this was a domestic plan to rebuild ex-Bundeswehr M41s for export sale.
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Because of all the madness and uncertainty over the last few months I really didn't think clearly on this. The Danes of course already had the premium M41DK upgrade, arguably better as a light tank although not as heavily gunned as the Brazilian version, so it's back to Belgian again :)
This allows me to use the lights of an Panhard AML 3D file I have because I don't like the M41 lights for aesthetic reasons. I still want the applique armour to look like the plates on the Jaguar 2 but I need a punch to make the washers on the bolts.
Still negotiating a modelling bench here but I may have to move again. Thus is the life of a pensioner :)
I'm thinking my next M41 will be a Tank Hunter like that which Kerick is doing but more like the Kanonenjagdpanzer with a flush-faced glacis and the German 105mm thermal sleeve barrel I have, it'll be cool to compare them if I ever finish the first one.
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The Brazilians reengined their M41s and ended up with some sort of grills hanging off the back but facing upward. IIRC they also bored out the 76mm gun barrels to 90mm. I wonder what the ammo looks like.
Try Tichy Train Group for all sorts of nuts and bolts of different sizes. The only problem is they list them as train gauge sizes so you might have to order a couple different sizes to see what fits best.
Bring on your version! I was considering using a 105mm gun but settled on the 90mm instead. It seemed to fit the wartime rush to get something out the door in the timeframe I was imagining. Plus improvements in ammunition were beginning to make smaller guns more effective.
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Any news about this project?
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I sort of have to negotiate space for modelling where I am and we haven't come to an agreement yet, every time it's come close something has come up. They're totally against the 3D printer though on account of the chemicals.
I got a cheap cake decorating turntable at the store, eleven bucks. It spins a bit quick but I'll bodge in some sort of friction brake and clips for holding the model down :)
I also bought some Voyager Model 1mm² PE mesh and it's perfect for turret bustles, I really recommend it. I want to make a sort of formwork for the turret bustle out of wood and bend the 1mm steel wire around it so I can flip it over and do the other side to ensure that it's even. The thing is with the funky asymmetrical turret this seems to be the only way to approach it.
Still no idea on what shape or how to make the mantlet for the 105mm gun.
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Nice find on the PE mesh. I’m looking forward to seeing your progress as soon as it happens.
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Sick to death of this notification.
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I guess its time to upgrade to a proper CAD program :P
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I guess its time to upgrade to a proper CAD program :P
I'm too cheap :)
Blender is hard for me, when I was learning CAD back in the 90s I learned a certain way and I find youtube videos painful in most cases. More story time than a class. And this is how a lot of the Blender tutes are.
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Blender uses 3D surface modding which is different from the solid modeling done with CAD. Autodesk Fusion is a more traditional CAD program and might be easier for you to lean, there is a "personal use" version (https://www.autodesk.com/products/fusion-360/personal) you can download for free.
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Tried the above linky, doesn't work, i get trapped in a doom loop of reentering my details repeatedly . . .
To reduce the size of your mesh, download and install Microsoft 3D Builder. Use it to open your file, then click on the tick to import your file.
Once imported, select 'EDIT' at the top. and then 'simplify'. Use the slider to reduce the number of faces, then click on the tick / 'reduce faces' to actually make the reduction, then save the new version.
EDIT: Cancel the first part of this post, I've managed to download it and get it going. Will report back in due course . . .
cheers,
Robin.
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That personnel use Fusion looks very interesting. I hope my computer isn’t too old to support it.
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Blender uses 3D surface modding which is different from the solid modeling done with CAD. Autodesk Fusion is a more traditional CAD program and might be easier for you to lean, there is a "personal use" version (https://www.autodesk.com/products/fusion-360/personal) you can download for free.
Yep, I did this on a FV721 Fox I picked up for a few bucks, didn't seem to make any difference to the detail at all and I'm pretty sure it was a War Thunder rip so it has a lot of detail.
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So I've been doodling with the solid Simba I got off 3D cults. The guy said it was 'ready for printing' but it was full of voids and missing planes. Anyway, I wanted the GKM turret so with a lot of editing using 3DBuilder & TinkerCAD I hollowed it, made penetrations so I can put in the vision blocks and now I'm about to make a turret floor. There should be a turret basket so I have to look at doing that as well but I think that should be a separate piece. I can't find an image of the inside of the turret hatch so far, that's to be done for a while.
There's a lot of turret detail to be added, I'm not sure if I should add it to the turret or just do it as separate parts which would probably make painting easier.
Of course after all this I'll print it and find it's too big for the top of the turret :)
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Not that I know anything about 3D printing but that image looks pretty busy. I’m not sure how the search light and its guard would work out. I’m sure you have a plan for that.
Looks pretty interesting!
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Not that I know anything about 3D printing but that image looks pretty busy. I’m not sure how the search light and its guard would work out. I’m sure you have a plan for that.
Looks pretty interesting!
All that was made by the original designer though, I just hollowed it out. I will be making the interior though.
I got a bit of a shock when I couldn't cut that glacis applique plate right, I'm very good at measuring as it was my job before I studied history. I'm going to see the optometrist soon and see if I can do something about the parallax. Until then I'll probably make stuff for printing because I don't trust myself not to waste materials.