Beyond The Sprues
Current and Finished Projects => Physical Models => Land => Topic started by: ChalkLine on June 08, 2024, 05:12:02 AM
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I've always loved the M551 and many years ago I picked up the 'Seminar | No. 3 | 1:35' Academy rebox. Now, I know the original Tamiya kit was massively out of scale, I heard that you could drop the proper hull inside the kit hull. Does anyone know if this derives from the Tamiya kit?
I've looked at the timeline over at scalemates* but it's hard to work out.
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/e68/GTwiner/tempImagegp30Ze.heic)
*https://www.scalemates.com/kits/seminar-3-m551-sheridan--949146/timeline (https://www.scalemates.com/kits/seminar-3-m551-sheridan--949146/timeline)
EDIT to add in info
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Wow, that is a mess.
It looks like your best bets are the new tool Tamiya No. 35365 Vietnam war (https://www.scalemates.com/kits/tamiya-35365-m551-sheridan--1162057) from (2019). Here's a review (http://missing-lynx.com/reviews/usa/tamiya35365reviewbg_1.html)
The Academy kits after 2015 US Airborne Tank M551 SHERIDAN (https://www.scalemates.com/kits/academy-13011-m551-sheridan--107494) looks OK, but it has some errors, according to this review (https://www.perthmilitarymodelling.com/reviews/vehicles/academy/acd13011.htm)
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Sounds like the old Tamiya kit is perfect for whiffing!
Carry on!!
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I believe the Rye Field kit is the best.
http://missing-lynx.com/reviews/modern/rfm5020reviewbg_1.html (http://missing-lynx.com/reviews/modern/rfm5020reviewbg_1.html)
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Now for the important question: How do you intend to build it??
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The premise as usual is Twilight 2000; a late Cold War WW3 vehicle after the war ground on because there was no one to stop it.
I'll be cutting off the flotation sponsons forward of the turret so everything except a 'V' of armour on the top of the front has to go. Then I'll rebuild the hull to its shape with heavy stock plastic as shown in the profile image. Over those I'll make some add-on appliqué bolt-on armour and forward sponson racks. (This would save about 200kg in real life minus the armour). I've got some good bolts that are 'LIANG 0442 Multi-Scale Universal Screw Rivet' that will go through holes drilled in the 1mm stock (35mm armour at scale) similar to what you see on the Warrior IFV upgrade and not welded on because the hull is aluminium and I can't see the crew having a TIG welder. The back of the hull will be the normal but massively weathered like the rest of the vehicle. I've got some metal tracks for it as well. I might put more shocks on the road wheels as well, that's a lot of weight with more to come.
For the turret I'm doing appliqué armour as well but welded because the turret is steel. This will be just water-heated plastic stock moulded to the turret, cut into sections and with thin weld beads. I have vague plans to do a very non-standard turret basket, bigger than normal ones because the setting requires vehicles to carry tons of 'stuff' like packs, weapons, and assorted military junk. I'm not sure if I have the skill to carry them forward around the turret to act as slat armour. I'd like to get printed a tiny sign on the back of the turret basket saying "keep your crap off the deck!" because it always irks me seeing people pile stuff on vehicle decks over the radiators and fans.
For the TC's hatch I'm not sure what weapon to mount, possible a Mk19. I have some PE ACAV shields so I'll dump the standard M551 TC shield that the kit doesn't have anyway. This means I have to scratch build the laser sight and run leads into the turret because usually the power and systems sit on the back of that shield. I'll use a little M60 GPMG shield off the ACAV set to cover a PKM GPMG on an articulated pintle, probably pushed off to one side. A PKM because the T2K setting is big on mismatched weapons and old and new. I could whack a Maxim Gun up there and it'd be okay.
For camo I'd like to go a faded MERCD camo, either summer or autumn. I found the plans for it as they were super-strict about how it had to be put on.
A huge job, I don't want to start until I've refined the techniques which I have an M41 Walker Bulldog to practice on (I'm doing a 105mm howitzer armed version because why not). I have to get the new bench set up and I'm going through flatmate hijinks at the moment so hopefully things will stabilise soon.
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I have vague plans to do a very non-standard turret basket, bigger than normal ones because the setting requires vehicles to carry tons of 'stuff' like packs, weapons, and assorted military junk. I'm not sure if I have the skill to carry them forward around the turret to act as slat armour. I'd like to get printed a tiny sign on the back of the turret basket saying "keep your crap off the deck!" because it always irks me seeing people pile stuff on vehicle decks over the radiators and fans.
Sounds great :smiley:
Totally agree re the supplies crap. I've added a much larger basket to my M-551 & filled with stuff.
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Would it be okay to get a look?
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This is my old Tamiya kit, did some corrections to the turret top etc, added baskets - could do with more stores, needs decals & weathering yet. In Vietnam most Sheridans had mesh baskets on the sides of the turret as well as bigger “home-made” racks on the turret rear. They often had many large ammo boxes tied to the outside of these and rolls of chicken-wire on the rear for adding local cam.
If whiffing you could change the turret to something like the Teledyne type that was to replace the Sheridan & add extra armour packages to the hull.
Lots of ideas here :- https://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=289.0
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This German prototype is their idea of a light tank - interesting front upper hull shape & side packages.
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Thanks! Nice build.
Yeah, like so many people I'm an M551 Gonzo. I've always liked the huge blunderbuss on it. I actually didn't have the two images you posted.
I recommend for all things M41 and M551 TP Hunnicut's "Sheridan: A History of the American Light Tank, Volume 2"
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This German prototype is their idea of a light tank - interesting front upper hull shape & side packages.
Reminds me of the Puma IFV
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I did an M551 in Australian Service. It real life it was rejected because it was judged unstable when firing the main gun. Did't stop it from appearing in the Division Pam, as a supposed standard light tank.
M551as1 Sheridan Light Tank, Baidoa, Somalia, 1992 (https://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php?topic=39426.msg652368#msg652368)
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:-*
That's awesome.
A MAG 58 on the loader's hatch would be cool, really bring home that it's not a US vehicle.
Is it stock apart from the camo & markings?
(EDIT: bad typing with arthritic hands :) )
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:-*
That's awesome.
A MAG 58 on the loader's hatch would be cool, really bring home that it's not a UA vehicle.
Is it stock apart from the camp & markings?
Stock, except for the markings and stowage and weathering.
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Night of the Razor Saw
As my brother told me when we started working on motorbikes "taking them to bits is the easy part" :)
Here's the start of the ancient kit I did as a kid, took apart and am now rebuilding as a twilight 2000 Sheridan. As noted above the first change is the big one; cutting off the flotation modules and building the aluminium hull underneath. I'll make up some bulkheads to maintain shape from heavy stock but here's the start.
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Let the adventure begin! Razor saw for the win! Interesting start to this by removing the flotation cell portion of the Sheridan hull. As much as I like the Sheridan big gun idea the whole thing of trying to float it was a step backwards. Not that the rival PT-76 was any better but it could at least drive in and out of the water without the preparation efforts to keep it above water that the Sheridan had to perform prior to entry.
In a similar pursuit, I managed to cut up the Academy M551 Sheridan turret to gain access to the turret ring portion and successfully transferred the Sheridan turret ring to fit without much difficulty to the Tamiya M41 Walker Bulldog turret. This resulted in the successful match up between the M41 turret and the Sheridan hull. While not a game changer, it made me feel much better about a Sheridan hull with something other than the original turret.
Cheers!
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Night of the Razor Saw
As my brother told me when we started working on motorbikes "taking them to bits is the easy part" :)
Here's the start of the ancient kit I did as a kid, took apart and am now rebuilding as a twilight 2000 Sheridan. As noted above the first change is the big one; cutting off the flotation modules and building the aluminium hull underneath. I'll make up some bulkheads to maintain shape from heavy stock but here's the start.
Looks like a nice change :smiley:
Reminds me of the Yugoslav Typ-A tank (T-34 with better upper hull & new turret & gun)
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More scouring through the manuals to find out what the hull shape behind the floats is actually like, I think I have it now but the front quarter is actually an educated guess.
I decided to do the mine protection kit which means the awful lower hull has to be tackled. Add to this the road wheel arms are located in the wrong spot on the centre road wheel and so the lower hull has turned into a big deal with almost the entire of the hull sides having to go. So out comes the drill and saws tonight arthritis permitting. The hull is actually a little bit too long than in reality and I'm wondering how to address that without screwing up the engine deck.
BNA is sending me a second PE upgrade kit for what was 'supposed to be a cheap project' and I haven't even bought aftermarket tracks yet :)
I'm at my wits' end trying to source reasonably price PE diamond and rectangular mesh for the new stowage racks, I don't think 'cheap PE' is a thing. This may have to wait until I get that 3D printer.
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More scouring through the manuals to find out what the hull shape behind the floats is actually like, I think I have it now but the front quarter is actually an educated guess.
I decided to do the mine protection kit which means the awful lower hull has to be tackled. Add to this the road wheel arms are located in the wrong spot on the centre road wheel and so the lower hull has turned into a big deal with almost the entire of the hull sides having to go. So out comes the drill and saws tonight arthritis permitting. The hull is actually a little bit too long than in reality and I'm wondering how to address that without screwing up the engine deck.
BNA is sending me a second PE upgrade kit for what was 'supposed to be a cheap project' and I haven't even bought aftermarket tracks yet :)
I'm at my wits' end trying to source reasonably price PE diamond and rectangular mesh for the new stowage racks, I don't think 'cheap PE' is a thing. This may have to wait until I get that 3D printer.
I’ve noticed, over the years, that unadulterated whiffing, has a tendency to grow arms and legs. The other thing I have noticed, with monotonous regularity, is that the very bits you need to complete your project mysteriously fall out of stock or quadruple in price overnight! :o
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This German prototype is their idea of a light tank - interesting front upper hull shape & side packages.
This is the Schützenpanzer Puma, specifically the VS2 mobility test vehicle with weight simulators. Sorry. Not a light tank concept.
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I’ve noticed, over the years, that unadulterated whiffing, it has a tendency to grow arms and legs. The other thing I have notice, with monotonous regularity, is that the very bits you need to complete your project mysteriously fall out of stock or quadruple in price overnight! :o
Yeah, this thing is getting bigger than Texas. I got myself an M41 'to practice on' and that's gone the same way.
I've never liked the cupola gun shield on the M551, it's aesthetically an abomination on a very attractive tank. I'm trying to whiff up a low profile version but that's for later.
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More scouring through the manuals to find out what the hull shape behind the floats is actually like, I think I have it now but the front quarter is actually an educated guess.
I decided to do the mine protection kit which means the awful lower hull has to be tackled. Add to this the road wheel arms are located in the wrong spot on the centre road wheel and so the lower hull has turned into a big deal with almost the entire of the hull sides having to go. So out comes the drill and saws tonight arthritis permitting. The hull is actually a little bit too long than in reality and I'm wondering how to address that without screwing up the engine deck.
BNA is sending me a second PE upgrade kit for what was 'supposed to be a cheap project' and I haven't even bought aftermarket tracks yet :)
I'm at my wits' end trying to source reasonably price PE diamond and rectangular mesh for the new stowage racks, I don't think 'cheap PE' is a thing. This may have to wait until I get that 3D printer.
I feel your pain and suffering/anguish. Not that it will do much for furthering your own efforts on this project but it gives me comfort to know that others suffer similar issues as I do when it comes to this hobby.
Having both the Academy and Tamiya kits in my own stash. The many times I have looked upon the two and wondered to myself; "What can I do to these things that will not result in another trash can casualty?" The usual reply, again to myself is avoid cutting the things up and it is usually at that point that I put the kit bits back in the box to be left alone for another day. What I find interesting about the Sheridan is all of that wasted space dedicated to making the damned thing float. So big on the outside, so cramped on the inside. If there were a better use of the entire hull in giving it enough internal volume then perhaps it might be worth the time and effort to just craft a new upper hull with much more internal volume. That change might give you a bit more room to move the driver's position forward, get rid of the double-angle front glascis plate and in turn provide more space behind the turret for other things such as a larger fuel capacity and more ammunition. Since you are going for a completely new upper hull as it is, that may give you some much needed wiggle room.
Regarding the mesh screen issue, have you considered or are you familiar with a fine mesh/net type fabric used for clothing called TULLE' ? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulle_(netting)). It can be purchased by the Yard/Meter at most stores that sell bulk fabrics. As the image in the above link shows, the stuff is available in a multitude of colours and it is almost the perfect mesh size for 1/35th scale projects. Also, it is relatively inexpensive when compared to photo-etch or other precision printed products.
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I'm at my wits' end trying to source reasonably price PE diamond and rectangular mesh for the new stowage racks, I don't think 'cheap PE' is a thing. This may have to wait until I get that 3D printer.
Years ago I found some nice brass mesh (square & diamond) at a model railway shop - good stuff for turret-baskets :smiley:
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Twilight:2000 ... wow, that was a game I and all my gamer friends were always up to play. Trouble was... nobody wanted to *run* a game.
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I do like a bit of hackage for a build starting point. :smiley:
I'm at my wits' end trying to source reasonably price PE diamond and rectangular mesh for the new stowage racks, I don't think 'cheap PE' is a thing. This may have to wait until I get that 3D printer.
Years ago I found some nice brass mesh (square & diamond) at a model railway shop - good stuff for turret-baskets :smiley:
K&S Metals at one stage did produce both square and diamond form sheets. Not seen them for a while though, but I do agree that at times, Model Railway shops do have stuff sometime mainstream model vendors do not. However the "reasonably priced" bit is not so readily available.
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Thanks for the tips on the mesh guys, I will check them out.
So, you get far in and then find something that radically changes everything you've done and now you suddenly realise that the whole thing may not work.
I'd assumed that the angle of the hull was a constant line. But over hours trawling the net I've discovered images of M551 hulls that show the lines of the forward hull going in unexpected directions. So it's out with the Verniers tonight to see if I can make the hull work after all.
Here's the images that threw said cat among said pigeons.
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:scratches head:
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Here are plans and drawing for a proposed upgrade of the M551 that removed the flotation structure around the hull and instead used the collapsible fabric frame. Hope it helps you with the internal hull layout.
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BTW the drawing of the hull you posted at the beginning of the thread is from the first prototype. The Sheridan went thought 4 different prototype stages, each time the shape of the hull changed slightly.
(http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=11130.0;attach=43436;image)
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I'm at my wits' end trying to source reasonably price PE diamond and rectangular mesh for the new stowage racks, I don't think 'cheap PE' is a thing. This may have to wait until I get that 3D printer.
Years ago I found some nice brass mesh (square & diamond) at a model railway shop - good stuff for turret-baskets :smiley:
Have you checked a fabric shop for the wedding veil fabric? It simulates chain link fence very well. Not sure if there are different sizes of mesh. Might be worth a look.
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Here are plans and drawing for a proposed upgrade of the M551 that removed the flotation structure around the hull and instead used the collapsible fabric frame. Hope it helps you with the internal hull layout.
Argh! I have those images!
Thanks, you're a lifesaver. I think I'm over-researching this :)
EDIT: I wonder why it still has the surfboard?
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EDIT: I wonder why it still has the surfboard?
Because a flat canvas screen could, possibly, have folded under the pressure of the forward motion, but, most importantly, the metal bow plates allowed the driver to see forward through the viewport & not have to rig up steering from outside the hull (&, I'm fairly sure, most of the bow plate is the same "armour-grade" aluminium as the rest of the tank).
The DD tanks of WW2 had a pointy-ish (very "-ish") bow but the drivers had to sit (stand) outside the hull with a complex system of levers to drive the tank.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6e/DD-Tank.jpg)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DD_tank (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DD_tank)
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No, I mean if it didn't have the flotation units why it would still need a surfboard. It's not amphibious anymore.
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The proposal that I posted removed the foam boxes around the hull and replaced them with a larger canvas frame (like the Sherman DD), the wight reduction from removing the foam boxes actually made it more buoyant in the water.
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The proposal that I posted removed the foam boxes around the hull and replaced them with a larger canvas frame (like the Sherman DD), the weight reduction from removing the foam boxes actually made it more buoyant in the water.
Weird, so even though it had the flotation screen already it had enough displacement to not need the flotation sponsons?
I can see why these were never used in service conditions, all the images of it look as unreliable as hell. I've got an image of a first series M2 Bradley swimming the same way and the crew look decidedly unhappy because it's even lower in the water than the Sheridan.
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I want to do the M551 MERDC camouflaged, covered with kit and heavily weathered.
My question is that I'm concerned the weathering, camouflage and kit combined will make the vehicle seem too 'busy'.
Can anyone supply some suggestions as to how to tie these three components together?
I'm doing the Verdant Summer or Verdant Winter version
Images:
MERDC camouflaged vehicle as an example.
Verdant Summer
Verdant Winter
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This is officially on the back burner while I sort out relearning CAD. I've gone off on another tangent and now I want to use the US Cadillac Gage Textron '6K' external suspension so I have to relearn how to model that because there's no way I could scratch-build that many and have them look identical.
I'll go to my 105mm Spanish What-If M41 instead.
Cadillac Gage Textron '6K' external suspension
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That looks like a good start for a CAD project, especially if you have 3 views of the part and dimensions - but it seems like a good start. Some cylinders a flat extrusion and some filleting.
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That looks like a good start for a CAD project, especially if you have 3 views of the part and dimensions - but it seems like a good start. Some cylinders a flat extrusion and some filleting.
I don't have the dimensions, I'm just going to use the M551 suspension and scale off that.
I seriously thought about switching to M113 wheels/sprockets for the M551 but the Sheridan is much heavier and I'm not sure they'd work. M113 tracks are easy to get and it'd make it a lot easier.
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That would work - just measure the axles/mounting posts on the kit and use the kit part dimensions.