Author Topic: McDonnell F3H Demon Ideas and Inspiration (Read 13515 times)

GTX_Admin · « **on:** December 28, 2011, 03:51:33 AM »

Hi folks,

A thread for any McDonnell F3H Demon Ideas and Inspiration. Here's a few to start:

Recon Demon:

Trainer Demon:

Regards,

Greg

GTX_Admin · « **Reply #1 on:** December 28, 2011, 03:52:16 AM »

Another thought:

What if the troublesome Westinghouse J40 turbojet was replaced by something more successful such as a RR Avon or Armstrong Siddeley Sapphire (Wright J65)? Maybe as a RAF or RAAF variant?

What about other users:

RAF
RAAF
RCAF
RN FAA
RAN FAA
other?

Regards,

Greg

GTX_Admin · « **Reply #2 on:** December 28, 2011, 03:53:32 AM »

And let's not forget the Super Demon:

These had the following:

F3H-G: Two J-65s
F3H-H: Two J-79s

These were also only a hop, skip and a jump to the F-4 Phantom...

regards,

Greg

GTX_Admin · « **Reply #3 on:** December 28, 2011, 03:54:23 AM »

Just a cool (and hopefully inspiring) picture I came across and thought worth posting here:

regards,

Greg

Maverick · « **Reply #4 on:** December 28, 2011, 07:17:16 AM »

I did a few F3H's back in the day. There was actually a recce Demon proposed by McDonnell.

Regards,

John

GTX_Admin · « **Reply #5 on:** June 24, 2012, 05:45:28 AM »

A couple of quick knockups:

Recon Demon:

Trainer Demon:

Regards,

Greg

GTX_Admin · « **Reply #6 on:** June 24, 2012, 05:46:04 AM »

Let's not forget the Super Demon:

These had the following:

F3H-G: Two J-65s
F3H-H: Two J-79s

These were also only a hop, skip and a jump to the F-4 Phantom...

regards,

Greg

GTX_Admin · « **Reply #7 on:** June 24, 2012, 05:46:39 AM »

Just a picture I came across and thought cool:

regards,

Greg

Daryl J. · « **Reply #8 on:** June 24, 2012, 06:00:14 AM »

When the Phantom was rereleased again stateside, I bought 4 of them for conversion into a F3H-G/Phantom hybrid.

Weaver · « **Reply #9 on:** June 24, 2012, 06:47:43 AM »

I always though that what the F-3 needed was an F-8 style chin intake instead of those "slot" ones:

elmayerle · « **Reply #10 on:** June 24, 2012, 11:17:40 AM »

I do have a F3H-3 "Arch-Demon" porject in mind, blending the Demon wing with a F-101B fuselage and intakes with the horizontal tail dropped back down to where it was on the original F-101 mock-up and whwere it is on the Demon.

Maverick · « **Reply #11 on:** June 24, 2012, 12:37:43 PM »

McDonnell did propose a recce variant of the Demon. The nose would have been much the same length as the standard radar one. According to Naval Fighters, the F3H-2P was planned but ultimately cancelled.

Regards,

John

ChernayaAkula · « **Reply #12 on:** June 24, 2012, 01:01:17 PM »

Quote from: Weaver on June 24, 2012, 06:47:43 AM

I always though that what the F-3 needed was an F-8 style chin intake instead of those "slot" ones:

DO IT! DO IT NAAAOOOUUUWWW!

AGRA · « **Reply #13 on:** June 24, 2012, 01:06:24 PM »

F3H-2P

Quote from: GTX_Admin on June 24, 2012, 05:46:39 AM

Just a picture I came across and thought cool:

They are some of the F3H-1Ns built by McDonnell that never received an engine and were barged down the Missisip for use as ground trainers. There were some 48-50 F3H-1Ns thrown away by the USN because their Westinghose J40 didn’t work. If you could re-engine them with an engine that could fit you could have an instant all weather interceptor air force in 1956. The Armstrong Siddely ASSa.7 would fit inside the J40-WE-22 mould line and provide a lot more thrust (especially without reheat) and a little bit less weight. They are too heavy to fly from light fleet carriers so who would want them? Gap fill for Sea Vixen? Maybe with these aircraft the RN’s FAA could have bounced the Egyptian Air Force when they fled over the Sinai to Saudi Arabia during the Suez War.

AGRA · « **Reply #14 on:** June 24, 2012, 01:10:39 PM »

Quote from: Weaver on June 24, 2012, 06:47:43 AM

I always though that what the F-3 needed was an F-8 style chin intake instead of those "slot" ones:

Best thing about the Demon was the view from the cocpit. Chin intake would kill that.

Plus there is something about that styled intake into the windscreen that just looks so tail-fin 50s cool.

Maverick · « **Reply #15 on:** June 24, 2012, 01:45:18 PM »

I did half-a-dozen or so profiles of the type over the years including these two:

Regards,

John

Weaver · « **Reply #16 on:** June 24, 2012, 05:35:39 PM »

Quote from: AGRA on June 24, 2012, 01:10:39 PM

Best thing about the Demon was the view from the cocpit. Chin intake would kill that.

How would a chin intake spoil that? It'd be underneath....

Quote

Plus there is something about that styled intake into the windscreen that just looks so tail-fin 50s cool.

Matter of taste I suppose - I always think it looks like they stuck the front end of a smaller plane on by mistake then tried to cover the join with that awkward belly fairing...

upnorth · « **Reply #17 on:** July 02, 2012, 08:55:41 AM »

The recce Demon is interesting, but I don't see why you'd need a lengthened nose to get all those cameras in.

Modify the basic radome shape to take a forward looking camera and then use the empty cannon bay for the side and downward facing cameras.

GTX_Admin · « **Reply #18 on:** July 02, 2012, 03:58:17 PM »

Big camera maybe...

Rickshaw · « **Reply #19 on:** July 02, 2012, 10:14:16 PM »

Big lens?

upnorth · « **Reply #20 on:** July 03, 2012, 01:05:26 AM »

Maybe, but then it is increasing the aircraft's "footprint" on the carrier.

How much space did a Demon take up on the deck elevator? Would a lengthened nose impinge on deck and elevator clearances on carriers of the day?

Or would you just give the recce version to the Marines for mostly land based work?

GTX_Admin · « **Reply #21 on:** July 03, 2012, 02:34:46 AM »

Honestly, I didn't really put any thought into this one.

Cliffy B · « **Reply #22 on:** July 03, 2012, 04:32:06 AM »

I'll check the elevator dimensions later but I don't think it would be too much of an issue if they used a deck edge lift. Demons were only 59' long. I'll get the numbers and let you know this week.

Edit:
OK, gentlemen here we go!

F3H-2 Dimensions:
Length: 59"
Wingspan: 35' 4" (unfolded) ~24' (folded)
Height: 14' 7"

All CVs hangar deck clearance heights were at least 17' 6" or higher so no problem there!

USN CV Elevators:
CV-9 Class (1945): 48' 3" x 44' 3" and 60' x 34'
CV-41 Class (1945): 54' 1" x 46' 1" and 56' x 34'
CV-59 Class (1960's): 63'x 52'
CV-63 Class (1967): 70'/85' x 52'
CVN-65, CV-66, CV-67 (1960's): 85' x 52'
CVN-68 Class (1970's): 70'/85' x 52'

Note: 70'/85' x 52' are the newer shaped elevators where the inboard and outboard edges are different lengths, reflected by the first two numbers respectively.

So from that we can see that from CV-59 on, the F3H would have no problem at all if its nose were extended about 6' for a photo version. I don't think they ever operated off of the smaller carriers anyway but even so, it looks like CV-41 Class is the only viable choice. I know the CV-9 class received larger elevators when they were rebuilt but I don't have any data on their sizes right now.

GTX_Admin · « **Reply #23 on:** August 12, 2012, 03:54:31 AM »

Maybe some more inspiration for those RN FAA Demons:

Taken aboard HMS Ark Royal 1954

ChernayaAkula · « **Reply #24 on:** August 23, 2012, 05:19:16 AM »

Quick one:

Daryl J. · « **Reply #25 on:** October 14, 2012, 04:14:08 AM »

Two seats, Spey engine, Phoenix missiles.

Jeffry Fontaine · « **Reply #26 on:** October 14, 2012, 04:16:10 AM »

Moritz! That is probably the best looking Demon I have yet to see. Now we need a profile to show how it all fits together :)

Daryl J. · « **Reply #27 on:** June 08, 2013, 11:25:46 PM »

Make it an A3H and modernize it to 1980s standards, then put it in Gulf-1.

Daryl J. · « **Reply #28 on:** January 12, 2014, 04:30:42 AM »

J-79 engine. Convert that corpulent keel to a recce bay. Fuel and ECM pods on the pylons for a F3H-2P

Or

J-79 engine. Convert that corpulent keel to an electric emissions sensing bay. F3H-2Q

Volkodav · « **Reply #29 on:** January 12, 2014, 10:30:05 AM »

For an RN FAA version why not go for Olympus?

dy031101 · « **Reply #30 on:** January 14, 2014, 10:46:41 AM »

Would a FAA F3H variant have been a better fit for the Centaur class CVL than the F-4K?

(The Phantom was deemed operable but too big to give the CVL a sufficiently-sized airwing.)

Olympus-powered FAA F3H with two Skyflashes and two Red Tops...... um......

PR19_Kit · « **Reply #31 on:** January 14, 2014, 05:54:40 PM »

Whether it would have been practical or not, it's a darn good idea! :)

Somewhere I have an Emhar Demon too..........

dy031101 · « **Reply #32 on:** January 15, 2014, 11:46:57 PM »

Would a British evolution of the Demon have kept the type in production long enough to be an option to the French when the latter were shopping for a carrier fighter?

In that case, how would the re-engined Demon's potential as a fighter be compared to that of the Crusader?


Swords to Plowshares GB Now Open!!

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Author Topic: McDonnell F3H Demon Ideas and Inspiration (Read 13515 times)