Author Topic: Convair F-106 Delta Dart Ideas and Inspiration  (Read 50384 times)

Offline Weaver

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Re: Convair F-106 Delta Dart Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #75 on: June 20, 2015, 08:57:33 PM »
I'm thinking of doing an Israeli one with the six-shooter gun pod replaced by a similarly shaped one with two 30mm DEFA cannon instead (got data on the unit trialed on one of their F-4Es).

For a strike one, convert the weapons bay to a fuel tank with a semi-recessed targeting pod (Paye Spike or Pave Tack are logical choices for the time period, Pave Spike especially) and carry offensive stores on the wing pylons, adding outboard pylons in the process.  Perhaps you could follow up some of the proposals to fit later and/or larger radar units, too.

You could probably also go down the Mirage/Kfir route and have short pylons on the wing-roots/fuselage corners ahead of and behind the undercarriage bays.
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Offline Volkodav

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Re: Convair F-106 Delta Dart Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #76 on: June 21, 2015, 05:19:06 PM »
Great idea, look at everything the Israelis did with not just the Mirage but also the Nesher and Kfir and do the same for the F-106.

What engine would Israel use in an uprated version?

Offline Weaver

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Re: Convair F-106 Delta Dart Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #77 on: June 22, 2015, 01:00:09 AM »
Well the 24,500 lb J-75 was about as far as you could go in the 1960s. If your Israeli upgrade can wait until the 1980s, then you can get F-100s and F-110s in the 27,000-30,000 lb range. A more exotic option might be the Volvo RM8 from the Viggen which produced 28,000 lb, but I doubt whether Volvo would get an export licence for Israel from the Swedish government. However, since it's basically a P&W JT8D with a Volvo afterburner, it might be possible for P&W to buy the rights to make the afterburners themselves.
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Convair F-106 Delta Dart Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #78 on: June 22, 2015, 01:08:13 AM »
Well the 24,500 lb J-75 was about as far as you could go in the 1960s. If your Israeli upgrade can wait until the 1980s, then you can get F-100s and F-110s in the 27,000-30,000 lb range. A more exotic option might be the Volvo RM8 from the Viggen which produced 28,000 lb, but I doubt whether Volvo would get an export licence for Israel from the Swedish government. However, since it's basically a P&W JT8D with a Volvo afterburner, it might be possible for P&W to buy the rights to make the afterburners themselves.
I don't know how true it is, but supposedly the RM8 afterburner owes some heritage to the J58 design (least ways, the folks at P&W-Florida claimed that back when they were still maintaining J58s as well as developing the F100 and F401).  Hmm, since it was cancelled, I wonder if the Israelis could acquire the F401 to re-engine their F-106s?

Offline Kerick

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Re: Convair F-106 Delta Dart Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #79 on: June 22, 2015, 01:35:34 AM »
What about twin J79s? Of course that would be such a radical change it would be better to build an all new airframe.

Offline Weaver

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Re: Convair F-106 Delta Dart Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #80 on: June 22, 2015, 06:53:04 AM »
Another theoretical option would be the RR Olympus. The F-106 was originally designed around the Wright J67 which was a licence-built Olympus, but slow progress with it (company problems more than engine problems) prompted a swap to the J75. Subsequent Olympus versions for the TSR.2 and Concorde got it well into the 30,000lb range. Of course, some "interesting" politics would be needed to get a British engine to the Israelis post 1967....
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Convair F-106 Delta Dart Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #81 on: June 22, 2015, 09:34:40 AM »
Another theoretical option would be the RR Olympus. The F-106 was originally designed around the Wright J67 which was a licence-built Olympus, but slow progress with it (company problems more than engine problems) prompted a swap to the J75. Subsequent Olympus versions for the TSR.2 and Concorde got it well into the 30,000lb range. Of course, some "interesting" politics would be needed to get a British engine to the Israelis post 1967....
Israel buys the rights to the Olympus 320R when the TSR.2 gets cancelled (alternatively, they buy the Iroquois when the Arrow gets cancelled - never know when you'll need a good engine).

The Olympus 320R as a replacement for the J75 was quite practical, I seem to remember that Republic proposed an Olympus-powered two-seat F-105 to the RAF as an interim strike aircraft until the P.1154 became available.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2015, 09:40:00 PM by elmayerle »

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Convair F-106 Delta Dart Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #82 on: June 22, 2015, 07:03:07 PM »
Well the UK Israeli relationship was in a good place before 1967 while the US was pretty ambivalent until the late 60s.  The Chieftain was actually a co-development between the UK and Israel so potentially TSR2 could also have had Israeli interest (yes I know it is a stretch). Anyway you could have a hypothetical IDF buy of 24 to 40 TSR2s as a silver bullet strike capability while the F-106 could have been acquired as a high end air defence asset post 67 and then modernised and re-engine with the same version of the Olympus as the TSR2s.

Offline Weaver

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Re: Convair F-106 Delta Dart Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #83 on: June 22, 2015, 09:24:44 PM »
I suppose the real question is how high a priority would re-engining be in an F-106 refit? It wasn't exactly slow and Israel isn't exactly big, so more power or better fuel economy would be unlikely to be high on the list of wants. If I were the Israelis, I'd be concentrating more on the weapon system, fitting better radar, a more autonomous control system, and proper dogfight missiles since it can't depend on only ever facing bombers.

Having said all that though, one possible justification for a power-up might be a desire to catch those pesky Syrian MiG-25Rs. Now there's a thought: pods on the side of the rear fuselage with TWO of the Mirage's SEPR booster rockets in them.. >:D
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Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: Convair F-106 Delta Dart Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #84 on: November 16, 2015, 06:55:45 PM »
Meng F-106 decals coming from Fundekals:



 
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Convair F-106 Delta Dart Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #85 on: September 05, 2017, 01:08:59 PM »
The new book from Specialty Press has some interesting bits.  A proposal for a navalized "F-102B" as well as a strike version of the F-106 with additional underwing pylons.  It also has good data on alternate radar fits for upgrades/derivatives.

Over and beyond those, how about a RCAF CF-106 using an Iroquois engine?

Offline kitnut617

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Re: Convair F-106 Delta Dart Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #86 on: September 05, 2017, 07:40:16 PM »
Over and beyond those, how about a RCAF CF-106 using an Iroquois engine?

For some reason --- that appeals to me    ;) 

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Re: Convair F-106 Delta Dart Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #87 on: November 16, 2018, 01:50:40 AM »
Random idea:  VTOL F-106 with lift jets in weapons bay.
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Convair F-106 Delta Dart Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #88 on: November 16, 2018, 08:39:32 AM »
Random idea:  VTOL F-106 with lift jets in weapons bay.
Need a vectoring rear nozzle, too, for balance in vertical lift, but not impossible.

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Re: Convair F-106 Delta Dart Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #89 on: November 17, 2018, 01:46:43 AM »
Maybe do it as a VTOL Test Aircraft akin to the Dassault Balzac V.
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Offline apophenia

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Re: Convair F-106 Delta Dart Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #90 on: November 17, 2018, 07:37:04 AM »
Need a vectoring rear nozzle, too, for balance in vertical lift, but not impossible.

Bang-box with an Avro Canada 'eyelid' nozzle built in before the afterburner? A bit clunky perhaps ... but easier to model  ;)
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Offline Volkodav

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Re: Convair F-106 Delta Dart Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #91 on: November 17, 2018, 08:54:55 PM »
Always thought a variant with two or three Sparrow semi recessed in a repurposed weapons bay plus internal gun or guns and a reprofiled windscreen and canopy would be cool.

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Re: Convair F-106 Delta Dart Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #92 on: November 18, 2018, 03:38:02 AM »
Always thought a variant with two or three Sparrow semi recessed in a repurposed weapons bay plus internal gun or guns and a reprofiled windscreen and canopy would be cool.

Well the F-106As upgraded under Project Six Shooter had a new canopy without metal bracing and provision for a single M61 Vulcan 20 mm cannon.





As to the AIM-7, I think I estimated a while ago that the F-106 could theoretically have carried a pair in the weapon's bay.  From what I understand though, this was never tested.  That said, apparently during efforts to sell the F-106 to new customers, Convair/General Dynamics did show versions with the inner wing pylons wired for either AIM-7s or AIM-9s.
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Re: Convair F-106 Delta Dart Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #93 on: November 18, 2018, 04:25:18 AM »
Interestingly, the F-106 was also offered with plug in recon pack in the weapon's bay.
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Offline Volkodav

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Re: Convair F-106 Delta Dart Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #94 on: November 18, 2018, 04:15:19 PM »
Had a 1/72 Hasegawa kit in the stash for ages intended to be a RAAF Air Defence Command (ADC) variant to cover the northern approaches from the early 60s to the early 90s (i.e. something that didn't happen from the end of WWII until the end of the cold war  ???)

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Re: Convair F-106 Delta Dart Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #95 on: June 18, 2019, 03:44:31 AM »
Armament-wise, my RAF F-106B will have permanent fuel instead of the bay, simplified avionics (no SAGE datalink), four Red Tops (two on fuselage pylons on former bay postion, two on new outboard wing pylons) and a centreline pylon for a Genie.

They never actually get the Genies due to a shortage of fissile material from the British nuclear program (real life reason why we never had Genies on Lightnings). The Genie pylon is later converted to carry a single 30mm ADEN cannon in an external pod similar to the one on the Hawk.

Did these a few months ago:








Reviving this one.  I was reading a bit yesterday about the British Operational Requirement F.155 for an interceptor aircraft to defend the United Kingdom from high-flying supersonic bombers.  Whilst this generated many cool and impressive designs, none actually made it to flight hardware let alone enter service.  It was eventually killed off in the 1957 Defence White Paper.  What if instead of an outright killing off, it was decided to purchase an ‘interim’ off the shelf solution based around the F-106 which was about to enter service around the same time?  This could easily provide the justification for some cool looking F-106 schemes just as shown.

Perhaps even go one step further and team it up with the UK also buying the Boeing CIM-10 Bomarc missile?
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Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: Convair F-106 Delta Dart Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #96 on: January 18, 2020, 11:05:07 AM »
Convair F-106 Six-Shooter video from Convair going in to some detail on the development of this capability for the F-106: https://youtu.be/9sD7cOpBgJQ
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Convair F-106 Delta Dart Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #97 on: January 18, 2020, 11:31:54 AM »
British F-106 with a Gyron replacing the J75?  I'm thinking that would not necessarily enhance performance, but it would add British content to pacify some elements.

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Convair F-106 Delta Dart Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #98 on: January 18, 2020, 12:38:03 PM »
British F-106 with a Gyron replacing the J75?  I'm thinking that would not necessarily enhance performance, but it would add British content to pacify some elements.

An Olympus or re heated Conway would be interesting.

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Convair F-106 Delta Dart Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #99 on: January 18, 2020, 12:47:49 PM »
British F-106 with a Gyron replacing the J75?  I'm thinking that would not necessarily enhance performance, but it would add British content to pacify some elements.

An Olympus or re heated Conway would be interesting.
Either would probably be more suitable than a Gyron.  Gyron always puts me in mind of the original J58 design before all the bypass ducts and such were added.

Hmm, if we are doing engine changes, perhaps a RCAF F-106 with an Iroquois?  Perhaps as an interim aircraft until the Arrow was fully ready?  Make more sense than F-101Bs and Bomarcs, especially if a radar upgrade was also included.