Beyond The Sprues

Current and Finished Projects => Physical Models => Land => Topic started by: Twiddle on September 15, 2018, 11:41:49 PM

Title: Norsu Heavy APC (M113 / Centurion kitbash)
Post by: Twiddle on September 15, 2018, 11:41:49 PM
Tamiya Centurion / Academy ACAV kitbash

Centurion hull widened

(https://imgur.com/UM5SvPP.jpg)

Centurion hull front

(https://imgur.com/piBr95E.jpg)

Hull rear

(https://imgur.com/T3ARDl4.jpg)
Title: Re: Norsu Heavy APC (M113 / Centurion kitbash)
Post by: LemonJello on September 16, 2018, 02:28:43 AM
Looks like it's off to a good start.  Let's see what develops.
Title: Re: Norsu Heavy APC (M113 / Centurion kitbash)
Post by: Frank3k on September 16, 2018, 06:58:33 AM
Looks like a good start. I want to do something similar with an old Tamiya T-62
Title: Re: Norsu Heavy APC (M113 / Centurion kitbash)
Post by: Old Wombat on September 16, 2018, 05:39:25 PM
 :smiley:
Title: Re: Norsu Heavy APC (M113 / Centurion kitbash)
Post by: Twiddle on September 16, 2018, 10:55:12 PM
A thought on the interior layout

(https://i.imgur.com/CmNg59I.jpg)

Above is not to scale

10 pax + Driver + Gunner + Commander.

Enough interior storage for the gear and equipment for the 10 troops

Not that I am doing the interior but however I still need to apply a bit of realism ?
Title: Re: Norsu Heavy APC (M113 / Centurion kitbash)
Post by: Old Wombat on September 17, 2018, 06:29:35 PM
Pax 6 looks to be in a position which would interfere with the ingress/egress of the commander, gunner & Pax 1, at least, to me. So maybe a 9 troop carry? ???
Title: Re: Norsu Heavy APC (M113 / Centurion kitbash)
Post by: Steve Blazo on September 17, 2018, 08:47:38 PM
Very nice. Definitely watching with interest.   :))
Title: Re: Norsu Heavy APC (M113 / Centurion kitbash)
Post by: Story on September 19, 2018, 11:21:52 AM
Depending on the neverwhen for which you're planning this build*, consider the LVTP-7 turret with either the .50 M85 or the dual .50 M2/40mm Mk 19.

http://www.armorama.co.uk/modules.php?op=modload&name=SquawkBox&file=index&req=viewtopic&topic_id=198135 (http://www.armorama.co.uk/modules.php?op=modload&name=SquawkBox&file=index&req=viewtopic&topic_id=198135)

This should give you an idea for planning considerations on what the heavier turrets require.
(http://armor.kiev.ua/Tanks/Modern/LVTP7/LVTP_2.jpg)

* Oh, duh - Finnish World of Tanks clan. 
Title: Re: Norsu Heavy APC (M113 / Centurion kitbash)
Post by: Twiddle on September 21, 2018, 04:16:53 AM
Some progress tonight - at least it's night time in my part of the world :) !

Hull sides initial work done. PSR to follow tomorrow

Right hand side

(https://i.imgur.com/yVNiu81.jpg)

Above rectangle indicates where the exhaust (Leo 1 tank in stash) will be mounted

Left hand side

(https://i.imgur.com/KcJpElD.jpg)

I recycled the M113 side panels and pieces of the M113 flooring for above - styrene was more or less perfect thickness

It might be argued that the height will make the hull an easy target (again realism creeps in ....)

However that will be addressed tomorrow ....

Thanks for making BtS so great  :smiley:
Title: Re: Norsu Heavy APC (M113 / Centurion kitbash)
Post by: Brian da Basher on September 21, 2018, 07:17:27 AM
That's some yeoman's work your doing there!

Watching with interest,
Brian da Basher
Title: Re: Norsu Heavy APC (M113 / Centurion kitbash)
Post by: Old Wombat on September 21, 2018, 09:09:31 AM
It might be argued that the height will make the hull an easy target (again realism creeps in ....)

APC's are tall, it comes with the role & the fact that most people aren't 4' (120cm) tall (4' short?).

Even most of the big modern APC's are pretty cosy & limited in head-space, as much of the size increase is comprised of better armour & improved-survivability design features (including better ground clearance). Whilst passenger comfort is important for combat effectiveness of the troops, that can be kept quite low, when they're sitting, but effects the width of the vehicle, often making them wider for greater leg room. However, the egress & entry of the troops requires a minimum height, so they can get in & out sufficiently quickly so as not to expose the APC to excessively long times as a stationary target.

I'm sure military vehicle designers have come up with an optimal compromise but at 6' 21/2" (190cm) I'm fairly sure I'd still feel a bit crowded by the roof.
Title: Re: Norsu Heavy APC (M113 / Centurion kitbash)
Post by: tankmodeler on September 21, 2018, 10:41:55 PM
Looking very interesting so far.

Something to consider is that with the engine in the front, the drive sprockets need to be in the front as well. The power pack is a combined engine transmission and you don't want a drive shaft running though the crew compartment if you don't have to.

A total of 13 passengers is quite large for an APC so your idea that the side height might be a bit tall are not out of line. "in real life" (tm) with the extra width of the hull, the plan might be to sit the passengers a bit lower and drop the side wall height. Just a thought.

Also note that by running the armoured walls upwards from the hull sides and not extending them outward from the edge of the fender line, as the M113 and most APCs do, you are forgoing a lot of interior volume that the crew might really need. Now, a good use of the exterior wall space might be for both external stowage boxes, providing shaped charge stand-off distance, and as external armoured fuel tanks which also provide HEAT stand-off and get the fuel out of the passenger compartment maximising passenger numbers.

Just some thoughts.

Looking forward to this.

Paul
Title: Re: Norsu Heavy APC (M113 / Centurion kitbash)
Post by: finsrin on September 22, 2018, 10:47:54 AM
Lot of widening plastic surgery.  Nice,,, keep posting.
Title: Re: Norsu Heavy APC (M113 / Centurion kitbash)
Post by: Gingie on September 24, 2018, 12:31:58 AM
Kit bashing 113 and Centurion...gobs of white p-card...what's not to love!! :-*

Title: Re: Norsu Heavy APC (M113 / Centurion kitbash)
Post by: Twiddle on September 24, 2018, 02:21:26 PM
Prep work for the side sponsons (correct word?) more or less sorted

Left

(https://i.imgur.com/zMQjDud.jpg)

Right

(https://i.imgur.com/116fyqW.jpg)

Below is what I want to achieve with the sides . Not drawn to scale

(https://i.imgur.com/Q2ttUDW.jpg)

Tinkering with the idea to add some vision blocks for the interior seated infantry ....
Title: Re: Norsu Heavy APC (M113 / Centurion kitbash)
Post by: Twiddle on September 24, 2018, 08:05:10 PM
Some progress today.

Initially thought of chucking it in the bin (taking way longer than I planned  :o :( ) however I will continue  :))

Started with the sponson supports

Right hand side

(https://i.imgur.com/EvaGSA5.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/uSaZDgR.jpg)

The gap will be used for the power plant

Left hand side

(https://i.imgur.com/mFOqXP8.jpg)

Topside view

(https://i.imgur.com/Vb140mp.jpg)
Title: Re: Norsu Heavy APC (M113 / Centurion kitbash)
Post by: perttime on September 24, 2018, 09:27:37 PM
Hmmmm. I have a suspicion about nationality....
Title: Re: Norsu Heavy APC (M113 / Centurion kitbash)
Post by: Brian da Basher on September 25, 2018, 06:40:36 AM
I'm glad you're going to see this build through!

Work of this caliber should indeed be taken to its conclusion.

Three cheers!
 :icon_beer: :icon_beer: :icon_beer:
Brian da Basher
Title: Re: Norsu Heavy APC (M113 / Centurion kitbash)
Post by: Old Wombat on September 25, 2018, 03:13:20 PM
Hmmmm. I have a suspicion about nationality....

Does it involve a blue six-pointed star on a white background? ???
Title: Re: Norsu Heavy APC (M113 / Centurion kitbash)
Post by: perttime on September 25, 2018, 08:38:48 PM
I wasn't thinking of a six-pointed star - although that would be logical from the technical point of view.
Title: Re: Norsu Heavy APC (M113 / Centurion kitbash)
Post by: Twiddle on September 30, 2018, 10:57:31 PM
Some progress on the LH sponson

(https://i.imgur.com/Ec09XdP.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/Lkw187Z.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/hAenTNH.jpg)
Title: Re: Norsu Heavy APC (M113 / Centurion kitbash)
Post by: Brian da Basher on October 01, 2018, 01:17:30 AM
That's some fine looking work, Twiddle!

You have some serious modeling chops!

It never ceases to amaze me how much you can do with just a bit of card.

Brian da Basher
Title: Re: Norsu Heavy APC (M113 / Centurion kitbash)
Post by: finsrin on October 01, 2018, 05:39:34 AM
Ambitious build you are following thru with.  Is lesson in plastic surgery we can all learn from.
Liking the pictures.
Title: Re: Norsu Heavy APC (M113 / Centurion kitbash)
Post by: Twiddle on October 21, 2018, 10:51:54 PM
Haven't  had too much time for whiffing

small amount of progress

Left sponson more or less done

(https://i.imgur.com/HmARmsy.jpg)

I am toying with the idea of making this a wheeled APC .

Photo shows a 1/35 DEF Model HEMTT wheel for comparison. Too small or plausible in real life?

Might have to source 1/16 scale military tyres should the 1/35 wheels look too small ...

Front view

(https://i.imgur.com/Dh2QQ2O.jpg)

right hand side sponson

(https://i.imgur.com/joUw5Gc.jpg)

Gap will be used for engine exhaust

Thanks for making BtS so great :)
Title: Re: Norsu Heavy APC (M113 / Centurion kitbash)
Post by: Frank3k on October 22, 2018, 01:20:52 AM
I think the HEMTT  wheels look good - compare them to the Centauro or a LAV.
 
The hardest part will be scratchbuilding the suspension, unless you have a set handy.
Title: Re: Norsu Heavy APC (M113 / Centurion kitbash)
Post by: Rickshaw on October 22, 2018, 07:28:34 PM
If it is to be wheeled, you'll need to lose about 10-15% of your internal space to allow for the turning circle required - unless you make it skid-steer.  Skid-steer haven't been terribly successful as military vehicles.  The British tried a six-wheeled vehicle out until they realised that they would have to replace the tyres appreciably faster than in a normally steered vehicle.  The French, with their AMX-10 armoured car, decided they could wear the cost and made it skid steer.
Title: Re: Norsu Heavy APC (M113 / Centurion kitbash)
Post by: tankmodeler on October 23, 2018, 12:20:51 AM
The sides of the lower hull definitely aren't suitable for any even partially realistic wheeled suspension system as was mentioned, plus, if the aim is to make this a _heavy_ APC, wheels definitely aren't the way to go. Ground pressure is already high for the larger wheeled APCs around today, compromising mobility off road. A heavy APC (Namer is running 60 tons!) would have really bad manoeuverability on wheels over rough or soft ground and would probably need 5 or even 6 wheels per side to be able to support itself even half reasonably.

I'd back off on the wheeled suspension and stick with tracks.

Paul
Title: Re: Norsu Heavy APC (M113 / Centurion kitbash)
Post by: Brian da Basher on October 23, 2018, 01:10:44 AM
Personally I like the wheels too. It's an interesting change and I think they'll look good under those sponsons.

All whiffs involve some degree of implausibility.

Brian da Basher
Title: Re: Norsu Heavy APC (M113 / Centurion kitbash)
Post by: Twiddle on October 26, 2018, 04:54:08 AM
Going with the tracks.

The HEMTT wheels I want to save for other projects  >:D ;)

This is one helluva bash - seeing that I've never built a kit before tackling this one.

Keep on making mistakes - but ja this in turns results in a continuous improvement (aka Industrial Engineering what I studied at Uni.)

Challenging but fun.

Thanks for making BtS so great :)
Title: Re: Norsu Heavy APC (M113 / Centurion kitbash)
Post by: Twiddle on April 19, 2019, 11:51:03 PM
Wow ... cannot believe this has stalled for so long  :o :icon_surprised:

Okay - time to get this build on again - slowly but surely

Front profile. The roof is still to be attached to the hull.

(https://i.imgur.com/ZYSEp9F.jpg)

Hull Rear. I mounted the side "sponson" thingies next to the hatch to make it look cool

Standard M113 hatch to be fitted

(https://i.imgur.com/X3umwd6.jpg)

Right side. The opening is for the exhaust. Going to do a Merkava style exhaust .

(https://i.imgur.com/D52QnTZ.jpg)

Left side.

(https://i.imgur.com/ZyPQNkQ.jpg)

As always - thanks for making BtS so great
Title: Re: Norsu Heavy APC (M113 / Centurion kitbash)
Post by: Kerick on April 20, 2019, 12:25:58 AM
This is a great project to watch come together. I'm glad you restarted it!
This will be interesting as an APC but may I suggest an alternative option? If you have read the book Thunder Run about the US Army drive into Baghdad in 2003 there is a part that describes the difficulty in bringing in fuel and ammunition to the tanks and APC's that were in Baghdad. Many soft skin trucks were lost to small arms fire and RPG's. I've been considering/procrastinating on an armored resupply vehicle that would keep up with armor. I was thinking of a modified Bradley but your vehicle looks like it would work well. Just my $0.02 worth. Whatever you do it will be fun to see come to fruition.
Title: Re: Norsu Heavy APC (M113 / Centurion kitbash)
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on April 20, 2019, 02:10:44 AM
Also glad to see this WIP back on the front burner once again. 
Title: Re: Norsu Heavy APC (M113 / Centurion kitbash)
Post by: Old Wombat on April 20, 2019, 07:22:39 PM
 :smiley: :smiley:
Title: Re: Norsu Heavy APC (M113 / Centurion kitbash)
Post by: Twiddle on April 22, 2019, 11:42:24 PM
Roof is superglued in place

Front view

(https://i.imgur.com/7FbGmhQ.jpg)

Gap between hull and roof to be filled

Rear view with M113 hatch fitted

(https://i.imgur.com/4a0XvOw.jpg)

Top view

(https://i.imgur.com/W8LECtA.jpg)
Title: Re: Norsu Heavy APC (M113 / Centurion kitbash)
Post by: GTX_Admin on April 23, 2019, 01:56:52 AM
Coming along nicely.
Title: Re: Norsu Heavy APC (M113 / Centurion kitbash)
Post by: Twiddle on August 10, 2019, 02:58:28 PM
oh boy ... does this build qualify for the longest ever WIP  :o ;D

Right view
(https://i.imgur.com/2MJayuM.png)

Left view
(https://i.imgur.com/iQgEeHa.png)

Rear view
(https://i.imgur.com/6oB3e2H.png)

Top view
(https://i.imgur.com/H1Ab0aL.png)

I have officially ditched Perfect Plastic Putty ....

Superglue used to fill gaps.

PSR to continue

Still undecided on how to do the exhaust ....

Thanks for making BtS so great  ;) :smiley:
Title: Re: Norsu Heavy APC (M113 / Centurion kitbash)
Post by: Old Wombat on August 10, 2019, 03:34:11 PM
oh boy ... does this build qualify for the longest ever WIP  :o ;D

Nup! Not even close! ;)


Keep her coming! :smiley:
Title: Re: Norsu Heavy APC (M113 / Centurion kitbash)
Post by: Buzzbomb on August 11, 2019, 12:23:22 PM
oh boy ... does this build qualify for the longest ever WIP  :o ;D

Nup! Not even close! ;)


Keep her coming! :smiley:

All of what he said
Title: Re: Norsu Heavy APC (M113 / Centurion kitbash)
Post by: Twiddle on August 17, 2019, 07:01:44 PM
Decided on how the exhaust is going to be

Some work done at least

(https://imgur.com/RMUVpzl.png)

(https://imgur.com/8XQIVqF.png)

Thanks for making BtS so great  :smiley:
Title: Re: Norsu Heavy APC (M113 / Centurion kitbash)
Post by: Twiddle on August 26, 2019, 12:37:47 AM
OK so I started to add some exterior detail

(https://i.imgur.com/Czw7MEK.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/UyLy91t.png)

The USB dongle will be some sort of countermeasure launcher  ;D

PSR to continue  :o

Thanks for making BtS so great  ;) :smiley:

Title: Re: Norsu Heavy APC (M113 / Centurion kitbash)
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on August 26, 2019, 01:03:33 AM
Interesting adaptation of an USB connector to become something more purposeful in 1:35th scale.  Keep it up!  Just a bit more and then some paint will make this all worth your time and effort.  :smiley:
Title: Re: Norsu Heavy APC (M113 / Centurion kitbash)
Post by: Old Wombat on August 26, 2019, 03:17:37 PM
Coming along nicely! :smiley:

It's amazing what can work on a scratch-build, isn't it. ;)
Title: Re: Norsu Heavy APC (M113 / Centurion kitbash)
Post by: taiidantomcat on August 30, 2019, 10:20:42 AM
This is amazing!!! Wow!! Nice work!  :o  :-*
Title: Re: Norsu Heavy APC (M113 / Centurion kitbash)
Post by: Kerick on August 31, 2019, 12:50:41 AM
Nice use of the USB connector! Keep up the great work and imagineering!
Title: Re: Norsu Heavy APC (M113 / Centurion kitbash)
Post by: Buzzbomb on September 03, 2019, 11:48:41 PM
Becoming very enticing
Title: Re: Norsu Heavy APC (M113 / Centurion kitbash)
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on September 04, 2019, 02:06:49 AM
Since it has air-conditioning this now qualifies as a Combat Winnebago or should that be a Combat Caravan? :)
Title: Re: Norsu Heavy APC (M113 / Centurion kitbash)
Post by: Brian da Basher on September 04, 2019, 05:28:48 AM
Since it has air-conditioning this now qualifies as a Combat Winnebago or should that be a Combat Caravan? :)

How about a Combat Carrier (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrier_Corporation) AC?

I'll get me coat...

Brian da Basher