Beyond The Sprues
Modelling => Ideas & Inspiration => Land => Topic started by: GTX_Admin on December 24, 2011, 05:16:34 AM
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Hi folks,
A thread for various Self Propelled Artillery Ideas & Inspiration.
To start, some things from the real world (yes, honestly they are!):
What happens when weapons designers get on the wacky juice:
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/ItalianSelfPropelledGuns252CSelfPro-1.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/155mSelfPropelledGuns252CItalianSel.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/ItalianSelfPropelledGuns252CSelfPro.jpg)
Although this is Chinese, tell me it doesn't make you think of a SPH derived Humvee:
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/SH-2_wheeled_sel-propelled_howitzer.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/SH2_wheeled_self-propelled_howitzer.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/SH2_wheeled_self-propelled_howitzer-1.jpg)
Regards,
Greg
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Reminds me somewhat of an idea I had using the prime mover cab from an M26 Dragon Wagon along with some heavy gun on the back where the crane & towing gear normally lives.
Definitely got a heavy Hummer look to it though.
As for that Italian SPG on wheels. Yipes & I thought that the Stryker MGS was daft.
Thanks for sharing.
Regards,
John
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I actually thought the idea of mounting heavy weapons on low-cost platforms would be brilliant if executed properly, especially if the troops those platforms are intended for would otherwise have only man-portable weapons and maybe some mortars to count on.
Executed properly, as in the understanding that we're talking about artillery, direct or indirect fire, and air defence types. None of the too-far-ahead-of-our-time items like "MBT on wheels".
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So something akin to the CAESAR SPH?
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/CAESAR-openphotonet_PICT6026.jpg)
Regards,
Greg
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So something akin to the CAESAR SPH?
([url]http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/CAESAR-openphotonet_PICT6026.jpg[/url])
The Ceasar gun system would look good on the MAN 8X8, Oshkosh HEMTT 8X8, or MLRS instead of the French 6X6 as an alternative wheeled or tracked vehicle.
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So something akin to the CAESAR SPH?
Yup. Heck, even Stryker MGS is more like a "direct-fire artillery", considering it was meant to replace trucks and HMMWV to begin with.
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The Chinese make a license built variant of the Humvee - the MengShi (http://www.sinodefence.com/army/logistics/eq2050.asp)
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Old Skool. :tagger:
(http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww291/joncarrfarrelly/GB-SPG_01.jpg)
(http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww291/joncarrfarrelly/GB-SPG_02.jpg)
(http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww291/joncarrfarrelly/US-SPG_01.jpg)
(http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww291/joncarrfarrelly/US-SPG_02.jpg)
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Akos Szabo's Kraz 214 with D30 122mm Gun mounted in the back (http://www.albatros.extra.hu/makettek/2012/krazd30/UK_index.htm) this is a model produced by MinimanFactory. Simple and effective. What more could you ask for in a gun truck?
Click on html or image to see additional images at Akos' web page.
(http://www.albatros.extra.hu/makettek/2012/krazd30/15_thumb.jpg) (http://www.albatros.extra.hu/makettek/2012/krazd30/UK_index.htm)
(Image source: Akos Szabo (http://www.albatros.extra.hu/UK_index.html))
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Some ideas floating in my head,
An A34 Comet with a 25 Lbr in place of the 77mm,for a direct fire close support vehicle.
M10/M36 Tank destroyers hull on the E8 suspension with either a 25 Lbr,or 105mm howitzer.
There was T88 prototype built,based on the M18 tank destroyer,armed with a 105mm howitzer.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M18_Hellcat#Prototype_variants (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M18_Hellcat#Prototype_variants)
105 mm Howitzer Motor Carriage T88: M18 with the 76 mm gun replaced with a 105 mm T12 howitzer; canceled after the end of the war
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I'm liking your ideas, especially the first one. :)
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I'm liking your ideas, especially the first one. :)
Thanks. :)
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Meng has now added another modern 1:35th scale French armor subject to their stable. This time it is the AUF1 155mm Self-propelled Howitzer based on the AMX30 (http://www.perthmilitarymodelling.com/newkitnews/mengmodel.html).
Certainly intended to please many and of course it will hopefully see a major drop in the price for the rather shoddy alternative offered by Heller. That would be a Win-Win for anyone wanting to do a what if project based on an AMX30 or the AUF1 but has been put off by the high price on the Heller kits.
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An idea I have been toying with for a while...and continue to toy with: have the Porshe Ferdinand/Elefant (see below) become the basis for a heavy SPH.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d4/Elefant_USAOM-02.jpg)
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An idea I have been toying with for a while...and continue to toy with: have the Porshe Ferdinand/Elefant (see below) become the basis for a heavy SPH.
([url]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d4/Elefant_USAOM-02.jpg[/url])
Howitzer or field gun. What size weapon would you imagine this thing hauling around?
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Haven't decided yet...
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Haven't decided yet...
You big tease ;)
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That would work, a common platform for gun / howitzer, mortar and heavy howitzer?
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An idea I have been toying with for a while...and continue to toy with: have the Porshe Ferdinand/Elefant (see below) become the basis for a heavy SPH.
That makes sense, indeed it probably makes more sense than the Elefant.
Nashorn-style open-topped fighting compartment and a 150mm gun?
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I love SPGs, really, I've always modelled them for my wargaming just for the looks good factor.
Anyway a few pics from my extensive Germanic inspiration files ..........
(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii548/Queeg2/6220742208_f808debb5b_zps1d26b4e5.jpg) (http://s1259.photobucket.com/user/Queeg2/media/6220742208_f808debb5b_zps1d26b4e5.jpg.html)
(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii548/Queeg2/9160attach_zps60a2379b.jpg) (http://s1259.photobucket.com/user/Queeg2/media/9160attach_zps60a2379b.jpg.html)
(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii548/Queeg2/128cmFlaK40-dziasup3oplot_zpsb4244893.jpg) (http://s1259.photobucket.com/user/Queeg2/media/128cmFlaK40-dziasup3oplot_zpsb4244893.jpg.html)
(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii548/Queeg2/2122237320063387170RAqset_ph_zps603462c6.jpg) (http://s1259.photobucket.com/user/Queeg2/media/2122237320063387170RAqset_ph_zps603462c6.jpg.html)
(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii548/Queeg2/Pantherrekettenfurhrer_zps823c6575.jpg) (http://s1259.photobucket.com/user/Queeg2/media/Pantherrekettenfurhrer_zps823c6575.jpg.html)
(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii548/Queeg2/pantherspg_zps1707a69b.jpg) (http://s1259.photobucket.com/user/Queeg2/media/pantherspg_zps1707a69b.jpg.html)
(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii548/Queeg2/grergegerger_zps9cf46cc3.jpg) (http://s1259.photobucket.com/user/Queeg2/media/grergegerger_zps9cf46cc3.jpg.html)
(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii548/Queeg2/trhrthrshr_zps74148ebc.jpg) (http://s1259.photobucket.com/user/Queeg2/media/trhrthrshr_zps74148ebc.jpg.html)
(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii548/Queeg2/grille_1_zps99585371.jpg) (http://s1259.photobucket.com/user/Queeg2/media/grille_1_zps99585371.jpg.html)
(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii548/Queeg2/WebGrille1_zpsb10721cd.jpg) (http://s1259.photobucket.com/user/Queeg2/media/WebGrille1_zpsb10721cd.jpg.html)
(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii548/Queeg2/WebGrille9_zps70190dcb.jpg) (http://s1259.photobucket.com/user/Queeg2/media/WebGrille9_zps70190dcb.jpg.html)
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I have no idea if such a thing would work in reality but I've always thought a 38 cm mortar equipped Elefant might be cool. Alternately, a post-war style vehicle based on the same chassis but with a rear mounted semi-revolving turret like the M109. Maybe the turret from the old Heller AMX30 Auf 1 with some suitable German fittings mounted on a modified Elefant chassis?
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That photo of the twin gun on the tracked hull (now trackless) gives me an idea. How about a series of SPGs based on re-purposed naval guns? Would be perfect for German and/or Russian subjects since they're heavy fleet units didn't get much use and/or were sunk or stuck in port. Warehouses had spare guns/mounts so why not graft some onto some heavy tank chassis go tank plinking? I know its more complicated than that and naval mounts tend to be heavier than land mounts but this is WHIFF world!! ;)
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([url]http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii548/Queeg2/128cmFlaK40-dziasup3oplot_zpsb4244893.jpg[/url])
That's the 12.8 cm FlaK 40 Zwilling which was a twin barrelled 128mm Anti-Aircraft gun (although there was also a PAK 40 Anti Tank derivative though this not produced I believe).
Some of the others posted are also anti-aircraft systems.
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([url]http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii548/Queeg2/grille_1_zps99585371.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://s1259.photobucket.com/user/Queeg2/media/grille_1_zps99585371.jpg.html[/url])
([url]http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii548/Queeg2/WebGrille1_zpsb10721cd.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://s1259.photobucket.com/user/Queeg2/media/WebGrille1_zpsb10721cd.jpg.html[/url])
([url]http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii548/Queeg2/WebGrille9_zps70190dcb.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://s1259.photobucket.com/user/Queeg2/media/WebGrille9_zps70190dcb.jpg.html[/url])
The more I think of it, something along the lines of the Geschützwagen "Tiger" / 17cm - Gerät 809 as shown in these above, and below:
(http://www.aviarmor.net/tww2/photo/germany/grille_koenigtiger/grille_koenig_4.jpg)(http://www.aviarmor.net/tww2/photo/germany/grille_koenigtiger/grille_koenig_m4.jpg)
Is akin to what I am thinking.
Take Porshe Ferdinand/Elefant and give it either a 17 cm Kanone 18 or a 15 cm Kanone 18 or 15 cm sFH 18.
Edit: I wonder if I can 'shoehorn' one of these:
(http://img.1001modelkits.com/34680-185406-thickbox/german-17cm-kanone-18-heavy-gun-1-35-trumpeter-tank-model-kit-02313.jpg)
into one of these:
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/ViewPictureaspx_zps607f1f43.jpeg)
Maybe open up the rear, add rear spade, partially open top...
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The 128cm Zwilling was not self-propelled, nor was the platform it's mounted on tracked,
it's more along the lines of a rubber-tired rail car designed to be towed by a large tractor.
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Some of the others posted are also anti-aircraft systems.
True but the 88 is more than capable of both direct and indirect fire ..... :)
On the Elefant/170mm I think you'd probably need to stretch it with another set of bogies. It's actually quiet short. I did the twin 88 below but when I looked at fitting the Revell 170mm to a TigerII hull I ended up getting another hull as even though they're longer than the Elefant they still needed to be stretched to fit the weapon.
(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii548/Queeg2/88mmflakz680px_zps3ab75650.jpg) (http://s1259.photobucket.com/user/Queeg2/media/88mmflakz680px_zps3ab75650.jpg.html)
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The 128cm Zwilling was not self-propelled, nor was the platform it's mounted on tracked,
it's more along the lines of a rubber-tired rail car designed to be towed by a large tractor.
Indeed. I believe they were almost always in fixed mounts such as Flak Towers. I may be wrong, but there is possibly even a chance that the trailer the one in the photo is shown on might not be its original trailer (Note: speculation only)
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Is that an auto-loading system on the twin 88? Did you finish that?! Me likey 8)
Figures jcf... Shows how much I know about armor ;D One thing I do know though is that twin 128 flak gun is NOT the same as the proposed twin 128 naval mounting for DDs that never got off the drawing board.
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True but the 88 is more than capable of both direct and indirect fire ..... :)
On the Elefant/170mm I think you'd probably need to stretch it with another set of bogies. It's actually quiet short. I did the twin 88 below but when I looked at fitting the Revell 170mm to a TigerII hull I ended up getting another hull as even though they're longer than the Elefant they still needed to be stretched to fit the weapon.
([url]http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii548/Queeg2/88mmflakz680px_zps3ab75650.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://s1259.photobucket.com/user/Queeg2/media/88mmflakz680px_zps3ab75650.jpg.html[/url])
Agreed - I was thinking this thread was more about artillery though rather than those guns simply operating in a ground-to-ground role such as the 88' could.
Either way, still appreciate the great post since it still has added to the inspiration. :)
I love the look of that creation of yours too. I also agree that a stretch may well be necessary for my idea.
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The 128cm Zwilling was not self-propelled, nor was the platform it's mounted on tracked,
it's more along the lines of a rubber-tired rail car designed to be towed by a large tractor.
Yeah its on an 80t Culemeyer heavy lift trailer. But ....... for inspration purposes I thought you could replace the wheels with tracks for an interesting looking SP flatbed sort of thing.
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Another candidate for the Elefant SPG might be the 21 cm Mörser 18:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8a/Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-093-0376-15%2C_Norwegen%2C_Lappland%2C_Küstenbatterie.jpg)
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That photo of the twin gun on the tracked hull (now trackless) gives me an idea.
It never had tracks. That is the wheeled transporter for the static, twin 12.8cm Flak guns which were used in and around German cities. The tyres are solid rubber. It was meant for moving it short distances from the railway yards (where they arrived from the factory) to the Flak positions (often Flak Towers). They used the same transporter for the less successful 10.5cm Flak guns which were dedicated to static positions.
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Not quite artillery, but I had the thought of replacing coast artillery with GLCM launchers carrying anti-ship configured ground-launched Tomahawks. Of course, if you're expecting aggressive "visitors" with sophisticated defensive systems, you might want to go with a BGM-137B derivative that fits the sensors and warhead of the anti-ship AGM-137A version. The launch support for the BGM-137B being straight-forward.
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A crude drawing I did a while back:
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/More%20Creations/63dd79f3.jpg)
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A crude drawing I did a while back: ...........
Looks pretty good! I gather that's a 150cmsFH18? If so it certainly puts it under some decent armour cf with the Hummel. Also if the weapon isn't going to be visable then you probably dont have to worry so much about the fit/practicality of it inside if you want to fit the larger 10cm or 170cm.
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The hybrid propulsion system of the Porsche Tiger/Elefant opens up all sorts of possibilities
for rearranging its guts to make room for artillery.
Flat-12 in place of V-12, diesel instead of petrol, true 'boxer' opposed-piston diesel or maybe a
turbine instead of piston engine for the engine half of the engine/generator system.
Perhaps a flat engine driving flat vertical axis dynamos so everything fits beneath the 'floor'?
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Greg, I think you'll need to extend the cabin and chassis of your Elephant. The German large calibre guns used a system of inclined slides to absorb a lot of the recoil when they fired. It made the carriages larger but lighter, compared to most other artillery pieces of similar calibre. Essentially the gun mount had some recoil absorbing accumulators on it which absorbed about 50% of the recoil and that was in turn mounted on an inclined slide with it's own recoil system, that absorbed about another 30% and the remaining 20% was absorbed by the carriage resting on the ground. That meant a long carriage was required. So, either you'd need to build bigger accumulators onto the mount or give it a very big recoil spade (and accept a decreased mounting life).
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...open a hatch in the bottom hull plate for high angle ;)
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I was thinking that the rear etc would be opened fully in operation. This would allow for the recoil etc. In essence these would be halfway between a towed traditional gun and a modern fully self propelled gun....if that makes sense? The crew would have partial armour protection but certainly wouldn't be operating/firing entirely under cover like a modern SPG/H does.
One of the issues with systems such as the 17 cm Kanone 18 is that they were notoriously difficult to maneuver, and very slow to set up and tear down; as such many were lost when their crews abandoned them to avoid capture by advancing Allied forces. By putting in a heavy tracked vehicle (even partially) some of this may be avoided.
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Hmmm...now I am in two minds. Do I go with a Elefant with a large gun in a semi-propelled mount or do I go with a smaller gun and make it fully propelled and traversable turret that is fully enclosed? Arrrgghhh!!!!
PS. The first one of you who says "do both" will find themselves in the BTS Gulag! C:-)
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Do the fully enclosed/traversable turret!!! Have it ahead of its time 8)
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Make it like a Bandkanone: cut down everything aft of the engine bay to track guard height, then fit a stnading-height rotation turret on that platform.
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Hmmm...thanks for reminding me of that one:
(http://www.militaryimages.net/photopost/data/507/Bandkannon.jpg)
(http://ta152.00go.com/images/bandkanon.jpg)
(http://www.ointres.se/bkan-6.jpg)
Has anyone ever kitted this?
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Ohhhh that's nice! Love the bulk crane loading system. Its very similar to this (know it's not German but it's along similar lines).
(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii548/Queeg2/Britwip-20_zpsf456c494.jpg) (http://s1259.photobucket.com/user/Queeg2/media/Britwip-20_zpsf456c494.jpg.html)
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Do the fully enclosed/traversable turret!!! Have it ahead of its time 8)
Ya mean like the KV-2?
;D
(http://www.armchairgeneral.com/rkkaww2/galleries/KV/KV_2M41/photo/KV_2M41_13.jpg)
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Yeah well....I.....SHUT UP! >:(
;D
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Queeg.. what scale is that 5.5in on Cromwell ?
is it based on this one off design using the Crusader ?
(http://dou.tgbus.com/data/attachment/forum/201306/29/083945boy2rhikydeqaxdy.jpg)
This is creeping up my build list in 1/35.. I have the old (and somewhat sad) Hinchcliffe 5.5 inch.. even though it is really 1/32ish.
But I am far too cheap to spring for the Accurate Armour jobby.. so far. Although if I see one at Scalemodelworld.......... >:D
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Queeg.. what scale is that 5.5in on Cromwell ?
is it based on this one off design using the Crusader ?
Hey matey, it's the Airfix 5.5 (OO-HO 1/76th) with a new barrel. I figured maybe they'd need to cut the recoil a little hence the muzzle brake and wouldn't worry so much about any lost range due to the increase in mobility.
I'd already built it when someone showed my this photo for the first time and thinking about it now I probably should have gone for a front mounted transmission/final drive. At least the Revell Cromwell has now been re-issued so I can pick up a few more and finsih off the unit.
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Do the fully enclosed/traversable turret!!! Have it ahead of its time 8)
Ya mean like the KV-2?
;D
Perhaps like the Heuschrecke 10?
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ce/Aberdeen_Tank-Museum-Heuschrecke-10.jpg)
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what about a heavy SPG/H based upon the Panzerkampfwagen VIII Maus or E-100?
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what about a heavy SPG/H based upon the Panzerkampfwagen VIII Maus or E-100?
Maus? Seriously? I thought this thread was about artillery that can move itself around. ;D
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what about a heavy SPG/H based upon the Panzerkampfwagen VIII Maus or E-100?
Maus? Seriously? I thought this thread was about artillery that can move itself around. ;D
There is always the Karl-Gerät ;D
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Maus? Seriously? I thought this thread was about artillery that can move itself around. ;D
Seriousness .... really ... do we have tooo?
Serious AND self propelled!
(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii548/Queeg2/Panzerjager001_zps9fae5212.jpg) (http://s1259.photobucket.com/user/Queeg2/media/Panzerjager001_zps9fae5212.jpg.html)
(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii548/Queeg2/donkeymk1_zpsbaafc4bb.jpg) (http://s1259.photobucket.com/user/Queeg2/media/donkeymk1_zpsbaafc4bb.jpg.html)
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That reminds me of this image of the Swiss Army from the 1930/40s.
(http://dl.zhishi.sina.com.cn/upload/88/97/44/1158889744.2057276748.jpg)
"Honey, I need to borrow the car this weekend, we've got maneuvers."
Cheers,
Logan
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(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii548/Queeg2/donkeymk1_zpsbaafc4bb.jpg)
Who said that the Germans have no sense of humour? ;D ;D
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Ta daaaa...here is one I prepared earlier.
(http://www.modelblokez.org.au/bthpix/whatif/donkeyfaust2.jpg)
did this as a club comp entry a few years back as a bit of a joke.
;D
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([url]http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii548/Queeg2/Panzerjager001_zps9fae5212.jpg[/url])
I wonder if that used to be butcher's van before it's conversion........DON'T PANIC HERR KAPITAN!!!!! ;D
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This is only a Photoshopped Koalitsiya-SV, but I had to share:
(https://scontent-b-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1484319_10151881493314620_1486401576_n.jpg)
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I would love to see the result if all guns were fired at once... ;D
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This is only a Photoshopped Koalitsiya-SV, but I had to share:
(https://scontent-b-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1484319_10151881493314620_1486401576_n.jpg)
HEY YA"LL!! WATCH THIS!!!!! That looks something a redneck here in the colonies would build. ;D
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I'm very fascinated by the Turkish upgrade of their M52 SPH...... from 105mm howitzer to 155mm!
(http://i.imgur.com/Zngk9is.jpg)
Playing World of Tanks got me thinking of all those WWII-era and immediately-post-WWII-era SPH: M7 Priest, M37, Grille, Wespe, AMX-13-based casemate SP, and etc.
Would they have room for any upgrade in gun caliber? Regardless the source (which includes the likes of Soviet-type 122mm howitzers, if Western-type 155mm ordnances are too much of an increase in ordnance size)?
(In fact, like Logan Hartke, I actually like the Soviet 122mm howitzer a lot......)
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I've long been fascinated by that upgrade, as well. They seem like a very efficient and cheap way to get modern self-propelled 155mm systems.
As for the Soviet 122mm M-30, that's an efficient little gun, isn't it? Again, in general I sort of keep "families" of comparable guns in my mind. Also, remember that a howitzer is usually lighter than the equivalent "gun" (Kanone) artillery for the same caliber. For instance, a 155mm howitzer is lighter than a 155mm gun or 155mm gun-howitzer. Also, as a general rule of thumb, US artillery is a good middle-of-the-road baseline, Soviet artillery is usually lighter (because it is generally of newer design), and German artillery is usually of slightly higher performance, but heavier as a result. Obviously, as the years go by, guns get lighter for the same or better performance.
Theoretically, you could put a Soviet 122mm M-30 in whatever vehicle used a German leFH 18 or a US M2/M101 105mm howitzer. So, a practical upgrade would be a East European or Middle Eastern modification of a Wespe or Grille with a 122mm M-30, instead. I can particularly see Yugoslavia, Syria, or Egypt using such a vehicle. As an example of the equivalence of these weapons, look no further than the German modifications on the Lorraine-Schlepper. They carried the German 10.5cm leFH 18, 15cm sIG 33, and Soviet 122mm M-30 on the same chassis.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/30/Abandoned_SdKfz_135-1_near_El_Alamein_1942.jpg)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8498/8449940703_0dc316eab9_z.jpg)
(https://farm7.staticflickr.com/6115/6390382359_9ddbbba2c4_o.jpg)
You could also modify the Sexton, M7 Priest, or the various AMX Mk 61 equivalents with the same weapon. I think an interesting vehicle would be an open-topped, turreted self-propelled M10 or M36 tank destroyer, but with the gun replaced with the postwar Soviet 122mm D-30 and used in the indirect fire role. Like a poor man's 2S1 Gvozdika. You could also replace the old French 155mm GPF on the M12 with a Soviet 152mm ML-20 gun-howitzer.
I also think something along the lines of the Israeli self-propelled artillery Sherman variants has a lot of potential.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/78/Tomatbamizad.jpg/1024px-Tomatbamizad.jpg)
You could take a vehicle like this and put all manner of guns on it. The Soviet ML20 152mm gun-howitzer, postwar Soviet D-20 152mm gun-howitzer, D-74 122mm gun, M-46 130mm gun, or even Bull's fabulous 155mm GC-45 variants. This same range of weapons would obviously apply to similar post-war SPGs like the M40/M43, M41 "Gorilla", and the aforementioned M44 and M52.
The M37 HMC's layout makes it a bit difficult to put anything too big in it because most larger guns would be incapable of high angle fire in the standard mount. The Soviet 122mm U-11 would work, as would the German leFH 18/1, but there's really not much else of the same caliber or larger. I have long thought, however, that it would make for a good self-propelled mortar vehicle, like the experimental T37 4.2-inch SPM.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/88/4.2_inch_Mortar_Carrier_T38.JPG)
It wouldn't be hard to convert an M37 to this configuration and it could easily take a 120mm mortar and possibly even a 160mm mortar.
Cheers,
Logan
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The M37 HMC's layout makes it a bit difficult to put anything too big in it because most larger guns would be incapable of high angle fire in the standard mount. The Soviet 122mm U-11 would work, as would the German leFH 18/1, but there's really not much else of the same caliber or larger.
I am having the idea of a Churchill tank upgraded with the U-11 (or some what-if, non-Soviet tank howitzer development of the M-30, in keeping with the theme of the KV-9 on a chassis that have hopefully-more-numerous surviving examples post-WWII), so M37 HMC with 122mm howitzer would definitely be on the card for me if do-able.
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That's the armament on the M37s I have in my hypothetical TOE. I do want to make one warning about the Churchill, though. I've been reading a good deal about it lately and it was always considered to be "cantankerous" mechanically. It was terrible starting off and was eventually improved, but was never reliable in the same way as a Sherman, for instance. I'd be wary about any extended use of the vehicle in anything but a specialist role.
I was recently reading of the Churchill's use in Korea, and the UN commander in the area where the Churchill unit was operating ordered them to participate in patrols, an order that greatly concerned the Churchill unit commander since he knew his tanks were not suited that sort of use. It was not a "general use" tank. It was a tank that operated very well in niche roles. Try to use it in a role that required it to drive any sort of distance and you'd quickly discover its limitations.
Cheers,
Logan
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That's the armament on the M37s I have in my hypothetical TOE. I do want to make one warning about the Churchill, though. I've been reading a good deal about it lately and it was always considered to be "cantankerous" mechanically. It was terrible starting off and was eventually improved, but was never reliable in the same way as a Sherman, for instance. I'd be wary about any extended use of the vehicle in anything but a specialist role.
My upgraded Churchill idea (and my analog of Claymore's "Big Mac" posted in my mental note thread, for that matter) is indeed intended primarily for infantry support. Both 122mm howitzer and 105mm gun are more potent in the HE department than the 75mm and 17-pounder, respectively, and are standardized weapons; having good HEAT and AP capabilities are just gravy in this case.
My general-use tank of choice in that geratria army setting would be Sherman, too. What did the Americans do with surplus Sherman Jumbos?
(Sherman Jumbo with U-11 analog...... well that'd be kinda in line with the KV-9, too ;) )
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Indeed. As I understand it, there weren't too many surplus Jumbos after WWII and those that existed were probably well-worn mechanically. There weren't very many built to begin with and they were largely used up in WWII. I know there was a plan to bring back what was left to the US for refurbishment in order to use them in the Invasion of Japan, but I'm pretty sure that nothing happened there, likely because of the atomic bombs.
Cheers,
Logan
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As I understand it, there weren't too many surplus Jumbos after WWII and those that existed were probably well-worn mechanically. There weren't very many built to begin with and they were largely used up in WWII.
I guess one can always pull an Expedient Jumbo à la WWII US Third Army, whether Sherman or Jackson.
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I certainly don't see why you couldn't, especially with all the Shermans available for scrap after WWII.
Cheers,
Logan
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Jumbo Shermans were heavily overloaded and very prone to mechanical problems. The suspension/gear train/engine were pushed to their limits. It was an emergency response to the need for an assault tank (and resulted in something extremely reminiscent of an "I" tank). Personally, I think the US Army would have been better off adopting the Churchill Mk.VII.
Postwar, the Jumbos were scrapped because of their unreliability and because they didn't fit into post-war US Army thinking on how armour should be employed. Of course, there was no guarantee the next war, like the last war, was going to conform to that thinking. The M26 offered similar performance in everything except protection, so that was going to be the next assault tank.
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Continuing discussion over here, though it may be end up moving to the Churchill topic soon! (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=653.msg74098#msg74098)
Cheers,
Logan
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(http://www.armyrecognition.com/images/stories/east_europe/russia/artillery_vehicle/volk-3_120mm/Volk-3_VPK-39273_120mm_self-propelled_mortar_howiter_2B16_Nona-K_Russia_Russian_defense_industry_military_technology_640_001.jpg)
(http://www.armyrecognition.com/images/stories/east_europe/russia/artillery_vehicle/volk-3_120mm/pictures/Volk-3_VPK-39273_120mm_self-propelled_mortar_howiter_2B16_Nona-K_Russia_Russian_defense_industry_military_technology_001.jpg)
Here's an awesome vehicle that I think a few people on the forum would appreciate. I really like the look of it.
Russia develops a new 6x6 self-propelled howitzer based on Volk armoured and 2B16 120mm gun. (http://www.armyrecognition.com/january_2014_global_defense_security_news_industry/russia_develops_a_new_6x6_self-propelled_howitzer_based_on_volk_armoured_and_2b16_120mm_gun_2001147.html)
Cheers,
Logan
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Interesting
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(https://tankandafvnews.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/iai-artillery.jpg)
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Does anyone know of a 1/35 kit of the Bandkanon 1:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/27/Bandkanon_1.jpg)
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(https://tankandafvnews.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/iai-artillery.jpg)
The Donar is a very interesting vehicle. It initially used an MRLS chassis but switched to one using ASCOD automotive components. The weapon system, including ammunition stowage and autoloader are contained entirely in the turret (hence its height) and could theoretically be emplaced on pre-prepared platforms, or even on a towed mobile platform.
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Why develop a dedicated vehicle when al you need to do is replace the tank turret:
(http://defense-update.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/arjun_spg2.jpg)
(http://defense-update.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/arjun-catapult.jpg)
It is a Arjun Catapult which is basically an Arjun Mk1 chassis matched with a Russian built M-46 130mm gun
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Wow!!
Jobaria Defense System Multiple Cradle Launcher System. Armed with 240 tubes of 102mm and 122mm:
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/dc/3d/5f/dc3d5f253eaab05054e1287b7ba7b299.jpg)
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Fire and then take the rest of the day to reload?
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Or just take the rest of the day off.
Don't think anyone will be returning fire😝
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Gives new meaning to the old long-distance slogan, "Reach out and touch some one!"
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Another Photo:
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/pDW81UrKV1M/maxresdefault.jpg)
And a pair of videos:
https://youtu.be/pDW81UrKV1M
https://youtu.be/i8fC7bxDYnA?t=59s
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Hmmm...I wonder, one of these:
(http://www.modelersalliance.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12695/11140019_462172787274653_2706212047762056769_n.jpg)
mixed with a bunch of these:
(http://www.1999.co.jp/itbig05/10053130.jpg)(http://www.1999.co.jp/itbig05/10053130.jpg)(http://www.1999.co.jp/itbig05/10053130.jpg)
>:D
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How about a MLRS based on an AAV7?
A single six round unit stowed horizontally in the cargo / troop compartment and raised to fire, exhausting through the not completely lowered rear hatch to permit the vehicle to traverse to aim.
Fill the cargo bay with Spike ER.
Horizontally stowed, vertically launched SAMs of different types.
Light weight 105mm turreted gun.
Retractable 155mm open gun but with auto loader.
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How about a MLRS based on an AAV7?
A single six round unit stowed horizontally in the cargo / troop compartment and raised to fire, exhausting through the not completely lowered rear hatch to permit the vehicle to traverse to aim.
Fill the cargo bay with Spike ER.
Horizontally stowed, vertically launched SAMs of different types.
Light weight 105mm turreted gun.
Retractable 155mm open gun but with auto loader.
Interesting.. when I first made hacks in the BTR-70 that became the FlatPack Radar (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=6144.0) the initial idea was pretty much something like that. A self contained, hull conformal shaped Light MLRS.
Now I sort of have a hankering to do that as well.
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How about a MLRS based on an AAV7?
I like your thinking, especially re the MLRS. The following might give a little inspiration , although technically it is of the MCLC:
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRm_PR-5D8KCW8MCRm0rTHPuastElDEQBwtfjEV4ERCnne_jMs9)
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Wow!!
Jobaria Defense System Multiple Cradle Launcher System. Armed with 240 tubes of 102mm and 122mm:
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/dc/3d/5f/dc3d5f253eaab05054e1287b7ba7b299.jpg)
Nice. Only one target to hit with mine, instead of three or four ;)
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Wow!!
Jobaria Defense System Multiple Cradle Launcher System. Armed with 240 tubes of 102mm and 122mm:
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/dc/3d/5f/dc3d5f253eaab05054e1287b7ba7b299.jpg)
Nice. Only one target to hit with mine, instead of three or four ;)
Yeah, ironically, I thought the same thing! :(
No offense intended with your post Greg! :-[
Concealment would be a nightmare!!
M.A.D
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Does anyone produce a kit (or more likely conversion) to do a 1/35 MGM-140 ATACMS conversion to the M270:
(http://www.army-technology.com/projects/mlrs/images/mlrs3.jpg)
(http://militaryedge.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Atacms_mlrs_01.jpg)
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I don't know, but I'll admit to being sorely tempted to model a BGM-137B (Army TSSAM) or two on a M270. I was intimately involved with that one.
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I don't know, but I'll admit to being sorely tempted to model a BGM-137B (Army TSSAM) or two on a M270. I was intimately involved with that one.
What would have been the differences to the ground launched variant? I'm assuming booster rocket and folding wings to start.
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(http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j339/arkonkill/240B5E80-DF79-4B2F-8F02-EA838DA98276_zpsoxs7lqp8.jpg) (http://s1080.photobucket.com/user/arkonkill/media/240B5E80-DF79-4B2F-8F02-EA838DA98276_zpsoxs7lqp8.jpg.html)
Found on Facebook, sorry no other information.
But damnit if it ain't funny
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I don't know, but I'll admit to being sorely tempted to model a BGM-137B (Army TSSAM) or two on a M270. I was intimately involved with that one.
What would have been the differences to the ground launched variant? I'm assuming booster rocket and folding wings to start.
Shorter, somewhat different contours in the first three modules, and dual booster rockets (I still remember the booster dimensions 20 years later); all variants of TSSAM had folding wings.
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There is a small thread on TSSAM over at Secret Projects (http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,6056.0.html).
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([url]http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j339/arkonkill/240B5E80-DF79-4B2F-8F02-EA838DA98276_zpsoxs7lqp8.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://s1080.photobucket.com/user/arkonkill/media/240B5E80-DF79-4B2F-8F02-EA838DA98276_zpsoxs7lqp8.jpg.html[/url])
Found on Facebook, sorry no other information.
But damnit if it ain't funny
Despite looking ancient, it is apparently a new build.
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Video is here: http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a24033/syrian-rebels-have-a-mystery-antique-gun/ (http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a24033/syrian-rebels-have-a-mystery-antique-gun/)
Details: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/11/29/18th-century-cannon-technology-used-syria/ (http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/11/29/18th-century-cannon-technology-used-syria/)
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(http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j339/arkonkill/44BC9483-57B9-4BBC-A657-99BC19943AE4_zpsnlnutsoa.jpg) (http://s1080.photobucket.com/user/arkonkill/media/44BC9483-57B9-4BBC-A657-99BC19943AE4_zpsnlnutsoa.jpg.html)
Kinda maybe a spg type ?
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Interesting. What is that? A T-62 turret?
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Interesting. What is that? A T-62 turret?
No, a T-54/55 turret. The fume extractor at the end of the barrel is an identifier for that type of vehicle. The T-62 has a larger calibre gun (115mm verus the T-54/55 100mm) and a fume extractor half way along the barrel.
It would require stabilisers no matter which type of turret/gun it was to fire sideways. Fore-aft is the only secure way to fire such a weapon on a light-weight mount like that.
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Doh! That was a rookies mistake wasn't it?
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Doh! That was a rookies mistake wasn't it?
Yes but I make allowances for people who use Brylcream in their hair... ;)
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T-54/55 or Type 59 vehicles converted into 170mm self-propelled artillery piece:
(https://aw.my.com/sites/aw.my.com/files/u183517/1280px-spg_m-1978_koksan.jpg)
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Isn't that a North Korean piece?
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Isn't that a North Korean piece?
It is similar to the North Korean one but is not confirmed as being such. Moreover, I was wrong -apparently the one shown is a 180mm one found in Iraq.
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BTW, this is the North Korean M-1989:
(http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/dprk/images/m-1978-image09.jpg)
(http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/dprk/images/m-1978-image07.jpg)
(http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/dprk/images/m-1978-image10.jpg)
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Wikipedia (as reliable as that source is) claims the first picture is a M-1978 170mm SPG captured from Iran by the Iraqi during their decade long war and displayed in Iraq.
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Here indicates otherwise: https://www.nknews.org/2016/06/dprk-history-the-170mm-self-propelled-gun-in-the-iran-iraq-war/ (https://www.nknews.org/2016/06/dprk-history-the-170mm-self-propelled-gun-in-the-iran-iraq-war/)
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Here indicates otherwise: https://www.nknews.org/2016/06/dprk-history-the-170mm-self-propelled-gun-in-the-iran-iraq-war/ (https://www.nknews.org/2016/06/dprk-history-the-170mm-self-propelled-gun-in-the-iran-iraq-war/)
Need a subscription... :(
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That's odd. I was able to access without issue.
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Here's the text from the page in question:
John G. Grisafi June 19th, 2016
FacebookTwitterEmailLinkedInGoogle+PrintShare 20 Comments 0
Among the most distinctive and readily identifiable weapons in North Korea’s inventory is the 170mm self-propelled gun, known informally outside North Korea as the “Koksan gun” and assigned the designations of M-1978 and M-1989 – depending on the variant – by the United States military. The 170mm gun is a unique weapon designed and produced solely by the Democratic People’s Republic of (North) Korea beginning in the 1970s. It was one of the world’s longest-ranging artillery pieces and was intended to allow the Korean People’s Army to fire deep into South Korean territory across the Demilitarized Zone. Despite the 170mm self-propelled gun being designed and produced exclusively in the DPRK, Iran has the distinction of being the only country ever to use the weapon in combat, in the Iran-Iraq War.
The Iran-Iraq War was an eight-year war (September 1980-August 1988) for regional dominance between Iran and Iraq. In the aftermath of the 1979 Iranian Revolution, Iraq – under the leadership of Baathist dictator Saddam Hussein – launched an invasion of its neighbor and rival Iran in September 1980. The Iraqi leadership was motivated by a combination of factors including Saddam’s desire to supplant Iran as the dominant power in the Persian Gulf region, previous border conflicts with Iran and the fear that the Revolution might inspire insurgency among Iraq’s Shia population.
Saddam expected to take advantage of the relative chaos following 1979 Revolution with a surprise attack. Despite early success, Iraq failed to maintain the initiative and momentum and much of the war was fought mostly on static lines, with heavy reliance on trench warfare, chemical weapons and exchanges of artillery fire, much like the Western Front in the First World War.
SUPPORTING TEHRAN
During the war, North Korea lent its support to the Islamic Republic of Iran, who had recently become an adversary of North Korea’s greatest adversary, the United States. Iran’s enemy in the war, Iraq, became the new recipient of some support from the United States as a result of their opposition to Iran and the dramatic change in the U.S.-Iran relationship. Although Pyongyang and Tehran established diplomatic relations in 1973 – when Iran was still ruled by the U.S.-backed Shah – DPRK-Iran relations improved considerably after the Iranian Revolution of 1979 and Iran’s strong turn toward anti-Americanism under the leadership of Grand Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini.
Some of the arms shipped by North Korea are believed to have been purchased by Iran from other communist powers including China, the Soviet Union and some Eastern European countries
The DPRK was a major supplier for Iran during the war, selling the Islamic Republic a variety of arms including small arms, artillery, tanks, Scud-B ballistic missiles, surface-to-air missiles (SAMs), and spare parts. Some of the arms shipped by North Korea are believed to have been purchased by Iran from other communist powers including China, the Soviet Union and some Eastern European countries, with North Korea acting as a conduit and providing some degree of deniability for the other powers. Among other weapons, North Korea is believed to have sold approximately 400 artillery pieces to Iran, including the 170mm self-propelled guns. Pyongyang’s support also included sending around 300 military personnel – likely advisors – to Iran.
170mm guns of KPA Unit 641 in IV Corps during an inspection by Kim Jong Un | Photo: KCNA
170mm guns of KPA Unit 641 in IV Corps during an inspection by Kim Jong Un | Photo: KCNA
SENT TO IRAN
North Korea supplied an unknown number of the original model (designated by the U.S. military as M-1978) of the 170mm gun to Iran by early 1987. This provided Iran with longer ranging artillery than anything they had possessed previously; the longest-ranging cannon-type artillery anywhere in the world at the time. The North Korean-made 170mm guns have an effective range of up to 43 kilometers with conventional munitions and up to 54 kilometers with rocket-assisted projectiles (RAP). Long-range artillery able to fire from beyond the reach of enemy counter-battery fire was of great value in the conflict between Iran and Iraq.
According to Joseph Bermudez, editor of the KPA Journal, the 170mm guns received by the Islamic Republic of Iran Army were likely organized into “army-level independent battalions or regiments” within the Army’s Ground Forces (Artesh in Persian), which could be attached to an army corps when required. The weapon was used by the Iranian Army primarily to conduct long-range strategic strikes against targets deeper within the territory of not only Iraq, but also that of Kuwait.
AGAINST KUWAIT
Among the most strategically valuable territory in the eight-year long war was the Al-Faw Peninsula in Iraq. Located at the southeastern corner of Iraq, between Iran to the northeast and Kuwait to the southwest the al-Faw Peninsula is a marshy region at the northern end of the Persian Gulf adjacent to the Shatt al-Arab waterway, the confluence of the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers. It is home to the Iraqi port and naval base of Um Qasr and is the only part of Iraq that borders on the Persian Gulf.
Kuwait actually supported Iraq against Iran during the 1980-88 war
The Peninsula thus was a high-value objective for Iran. The region was captured by Iranian forces in the First Battle of Al-Faw on February 10 and 11, 1986. In Operation Dawn 8, the Iranian Army and the Revolutionary Guard first feigned an offensive on the city of Basra as a diversion before successfully invading the Peninsula, thus holding the only territory in Iraq which bordered on the Persian Gulf. Iranian forces entrenched themselves on the Peninsula after the victory.
Following the battle, Iran capitalized on the seizure of al-Faw. In addition to cutting off Iraq from the Persian Gulf, holding the peninsula put Iranian forces within striking distance of Kuwait. Prior to Saddam Hussein’s invasion of Kuwait in 1990 – which led to the liberation of Kuwait and first invasion of Iraq by a U.S.-led coalition in the 1991 Gulf War – Kuwait actually supported Iraq against Iran during the 1980-88 war. As a result, Iran sought to apply military pressure on – and retaliate against – Kuwait. Iran carried out attacks from the al-Faw Peninsula on Kuwaiti oil tankers and terminals using Chinese-made Silkworm cruise missiles and used the North Korean-made 170mm self-propelled guns positioned there to fire on Kuwait oil fields and facilities, inflicting economic damage upon the country.
CAPTURED BY IRAQ
In the final year of the war, 1988, Iraq would regain control of the al-Faw Pensinula in the Second Battle of al-Faw on April 17, 1988. After diversionary attacks to the north, Iraqi military forces launched an assault on al-Faw during the Islamic holy month of Ramadan, a time when the Iranian military was rotating troops on the front lines and less prepared to repel an offensive. The Iraqi’s bombarded from the air and with artillery using conventional munitions as well as chemical weapons. This combined with amphibious assaults and superior numbers allowed the Iraqi forces to defeat the Iranians and retake al-Faw.
Iranian forces were cleared from the Peninsula within 48 hours and left behind some equipment captured by the Iraqis. Among the weapons the Iraqis captured were some of Iran’s 170mm self-propelled guns. At least one of the North Korean-made artillery pieces was displayed in a victory celebration in Baghdad following the battle.
170mm guns of KPA Unit 681 during a firing drill, April 2014 | Photo: KCNA
170mm guns of KPA Unit 681 during a firing drill, April 2014 | Photo: KCNA
WASHINGTON TAKES INTEREST
It was here that the 170mm gun was seen by U.S. Army Colonel Gary Nelson, an artillery officer then serving as defense attaché at the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad. It was likely the first time an American official laid eyes on the weapon in person. The origin of this gun reportedly was unclear to the Iraqis – its caliber being rather unusual – but it was known to the U.S. military, who had first observed the weapon near the North Korean city of Koksan in 1978 – the city and year being the origin of the U.S. designation (M-1978) and nickname (“Koksan gun”) for the weapon.
U.S. military and intelligence authorities took interest and wanted to learn more about the North Korean-made artillery. One of these weapons was investigated closely by Rick Francona, then a Defense Intelligence Officer working as a U.S. liaison to the Iraqi military. Inspection of the gun, though, provided more than just information about this North Korean weapon; it also revealed something about the Iran-Iraq War. In his book Ally to Adversary, Francona recounts that the gun provided the U.S. with evidence of Iraq’s usage of chemical weapons against Iranian forces at al-Faw, including decontamination fluid and used atropine injectors.
A DIFFERENT CALIBER
The first sighting of the 170mm gun in Iraq and the clues it yielded regarding chemical warfare, however, would not be the last discovery Americans made in the Middle Eastern country related to this weapon. In 2008, during Operation Iraqi Freedom (the second U.S. invasion of Iraq) a U.S. Marine Corps unit operating in the city of Ramadi in Iraq’s western Anbar Province was clearing old Iraqi military vehicles from Al Anbar University when they found an unusual variant of the self-propelled gun. The caliber of this weapon was 180mm, instead of 170mm.
It is possible … that the Iraqi arms industry built or modified this weapon using the 180mm caliber of the S-23 to create a functionally similar weapon
It has never been confirmed if the 180mm gun was produced in North Korea, Iran, or Iraq, and if the weapon was built from scratch in this caliber or was a modification – possibly just a barrel swap – of a previously 170mm gun. The 180mm gun found in Iraq featured what has been described as a “pepper pot” muzzle brake with many round holes in it, quite similar to that of the Soviet-made S-23, but unlike that seen on any North Korean 170mm gun. It is possible – though difficult to verify – that the Iraqi arms industry built or modified this weapon using the 180mm caliber of the S-23 to create a functionally similar weapon. Likely produced in greater numbers than the North Korean 170mm gun, ammunition for the 180mm gun would be easier to obtain for Iraq, especially since neighboring Syria operated the S-23 at the time.
180mm variant in Ramadi, Anbar Province, Iraq | Photo: Wikimedia Commons
180mm variant in Ramadi, Anbar Province, Iraq | Photo: Wikimedia Commons
170MM LEGACY
The sale and delivery of the 170mm self-propelled guns to Iran, subsequent usage by Iran, and eventual capture by Iraq together form an uncommon – though not completely unique – example of North Korean-designed weaponry having a significant impact far from the Korean Peninsula. It is unknown if the weapon is still in active service in the Iranian military, though Joseph Bermudez notes that some have been seen in Iranian military parades. It was part of the first major act of military and cooperation between North Korea and Iran which has continued into the present decade, facilitating development of new and improved weapons by both countries. The Iran-Iraq War proved to be the only time so far that the 170mm gun has ever been used in actual combat, serving strategic and political goals of Iran during war. Its subsequent capture gave U.S. authorities a rare opportunity to examine the weapon up-close. This has surely improved understanding of the weapon – designed primarily to fire upon Seoul and other targets in South Korea – by the U.S. and that information has likely been shared with South Korea.
Featured image: 170mm SP gun of the KPA during a firing drill, April 2014 | Photo: KCNA
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Something different:
(https://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20953648_474126189624938_4420232421635695372_n.jpg?oh=312f8e07e1b99fd5299ee9750e1fbb12&oe=5A1F8BCC)
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Something different:
(https://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20953648_474126189624938_4420232421635695372_n.jpg?oh=312f8e07e1b99fd5299ee9750e1fbb12&oe=5A1F8BCC)
I wonder how many rounds fired, until they lose the windscreen? :-\
M.A.D
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Fictional I believe, but still cool looking:
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/Game%20Gun_zps4chtwqt8.jpg)
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Pretty! Lots of wheels.
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Does have a very high "cool" factor. 8)
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Archer mounting a 25 Pdr, instead of the usual 17 Pdr:
(https://i.imgur.com/hpUgcy9.jpg&key=957a7011c4a92b9dcb51b3bdffaec5ca5354a999dfaa0b53e9b1dde8dda7ddbe)
(https://i.imgur.com/asyMcL7.jpg&key=fe1c728fd0e05200743ff11eb702ddc33238d58ee31bc4f2a6f1e0302a74f911)
Crusader gun tractor converted by the Argentines, post war to carry a 105mm gun:
(https://i.imgur.com/ZOOhgqe.jpg&key=49f4437c8fa98aa3c0ff3cf2aa6c20cdcdc74a37409e2f4436a788dc7a7772f8)
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Fictional I believe, but still cool looking:
([url]http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/Game%20Gun_zps4chtwqt8.jpg[/url])
ISTR it was developed as part of The Terminator franchise. Maybe for a video game? Or Genysis?
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(https://img.newatlas.com/4903_51205111456.jpg?auto=format%2Ccompress&dpr=2&fit=max&q=40&w=1000&s=eeabb3832c625f525f7dfd57e9b1c169)
(https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/images/limaws-g-image02.jpg)
(https://www.trucksplanet.com/photo/bae_systems_uk/m777-portee/m777-portee_28050.jpg)
M777 Portee system combines the M777 155mm howitzer with a purpose built vehicle developed by Supacat.
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So something akin to the CAESAR SPH?
([url]http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/CAESAR-openphotonet_PICT6026.jpg[/url])
The Ceasar gun system would look good on the MAN 8X8, Oshkosh HEMTT 8X8, or MLRS instead of the French 6X6 as an alternative wheeled or tracked vehicle.
(https://image.slidesharecdn.com/aavorefviteration2nd155mml60self-propelleduniversalcannon-howitzerbasedonhemtt-170608041049/95/aav-or-efv-iteration-2nd-155-mm-l60-selfpropelled-universal-cannon-howitzer-based-on-hemtt-1-638.jpg?cb=1496895297)
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No MTLB thread, so this will have to do -
MT-LB + MT-12 = Ukraine’s Home Made Tank Destroyer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onroLhwyj0o (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onroLhwyj0o)
Edited to add -
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FdrRwdFXoAASj3x?format=jpg&name=small)
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From "Comandos em Ação" (a Brazilian (?) version of G.I.Joe):
(https://d1o6h00a1h5k7q.cloudfront.net/imagens/img_g/0348/159662.jpg)
(https://d1o6h00a1h5k7q.cloudfront.net/imagens/img_g/0348/159662_1.jpg)
SOURCE (https://www.lilileiloeira.com.br/peca.asp?ID=159662)
The barrel has M110 203mm vibes. On a 6x6 base? Ambitious! 8) Maybe food for thought.
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'Mjölner' Rapid Fire 120mm Mortar Vehicle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3AYJl9baIw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3AYJl9baIw)
https://militaryleak.com/2018/09/17/mjolner-120-mm-twin-mortar-armoured-vehicle/ (https://militaryleak.com/2018/09/17/mjolner-120-mm-twin-mortar-armoured-vehicle/)
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From "Comandos em Ação" (a Brazilian (?) version of G.I.Joe):
(https://d1o6h00a1h5k7q.cloudfront.net/imagens/img_g/0348/159662.jpg)
(https://d1o6h00a1h5k7q.cloudfront.net/imagens/img_g/0348/159662_1.jpg)
SOURCE (https://www.lilileiloeira.com.br/peca.asp?ID=159662)
The barrel has M110 203mm vibes. On a 6x6 base? Ambitious! 8) Maybe food for thought.
That just gave me a great idea what to replace the crane with on a Leopard ARV!
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MT-LB Mounted With a 2M-7 Naval Turret Captured Near Vuhledar
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaaHRSkfPmM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaaHRSkfPmM)
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(https://d1o6h00a1h5k7q.cloudfront.net/imagens/img_g/0348/159662.jpg)
That just gave me a great idea what to replace the crane with on a Leopard ARV!
A 2S7 analogue on a Leopard chassis? Neat!
Will you keep the off-centre location? Works for a crane, but maybe not for a gun.
Also.... where will the crane go?
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The crane would go in the spares bin!
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Israel’s Huge L-33 Ro’em.
This machine was basically a large box placed on top of a Sherman lower hull, surrounding a 155 mm howitzer, with a Cummins V8 diesel engine providing the power.
(https://tankhistoria.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/34453756974_96041ea1ad_k.jpg)
Source: https://tankhistoria.com/nations/israeli-tanks/l-33-roem/
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If only one of the decent manufacturer's would make a 35th kit of this to complete my IDF collection.
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If only one of the decent manufacturer's would make a 35th kit of this to complete my IDF collection.
Surprised that no one has aside from the AEF Designs kit from long ago.
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Surprised that no one has aside from the AEF Designs kit from long ago.
I have a copy of that one.
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/e68/GTwiner/tempImageKIP0kq.heic)
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I have a copy of that one.
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/e68/GTwiner/tempImageKIP0kq.heic)
That is of the early L-33 version - no bustle at the back of the hull.
Reviews I have read of AEF kits were scathing ... but I've had no real complaints of their products. Guess the others didn't have modelling skills. >:D
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Objekt 327: T-72 fitted with a 2A36 152mm gun. Only one prototype was constructed. The armament occupied an open top tower, and it was completely automated, while the crew was protected fully within the hull. After initial promise when started, by the early 1980s it still had nagging mechanical faults, and it was shelved for the 2S19-B Msta
(https://i.pinimg.com/564x/78/0e/e2/780ee23fb2800bf992f0eaa2a37404c7.jpg)
(https://i.pinimg.com/564x/0b/89/cf/0b89cfdc58cd70cd221cef217824966f.jpg)
(https://i.pinimg.com/564x/d7/8f/1b/d78f1b422c6caf2a9e89796b48041dbc.jpg)
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:smiley:
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The Finnish Patria is working on integrating their 155K98 gun design with wheeled vehicles. Apparently, the Sisu 8×8 is a likely candidate.
No published articles in English (yet?)
https://www.patriagroup.com/fi/media/patria-magazine/tekniikka/patrian-vahva-osaaminen-tykkien-valmistuksessa-on-tallella (https://www.patriagroup.com/fi/media/patria-magazine/tekniikka/patrian-vahva-osaaminen-tykkien-valmistuksessa-on-tallella)
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(https://armyrecognition.com/images/stories/analysis_focus/analysis/8x8_howitzers/Top_most_modern_8x8_wheeled_self-propelled_howitzers_analysis_Army_ecognition_925_002.jpg) (https://armyrecognition.com/weapons_defence_industry_military_technology_uk/analysis_top_most_modern_8x8_wheeled_self-propelled_howitzers.html)
Click image for more details
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Hello,
These are still missing. I don't know if this exists or is a photomontage. Leopard 2 AGM.
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Polish 120mm turret on Marder (my friend). Was shown at MSPO 2013
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And the italian Palmaria-turret on the longer Marder-chassis. In service in Argentinia.
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The Finnish Patria is working on integrating their 155K98 gun design with wheeled vehicles. Apparently, the Sisu 8×8 is a likely candidate.
No published articles in English (yet?)
https://www.patriagroup.com/fi/media/patria-magazine/tekniikka/patrian-vahva-osaaminen-tykkien-valmistuksessa-on-tallella (https://www.patriagroup.com/fi/media/patria-magazine/tekniikka/patrian-vahva-osaaminen-tykkien-valmistuksessa-on-tallella)
More here: https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_april_2024_global_security_army_industry/patria_to_develop_finland_s_first_wheeled_155mm_self-propelled_howitzer.html (https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_april_2024_global_security_army_industry/patria_to_develop_finland_s_first_wheeled_155mm_self-propelled_howitzer.html)
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Patria 155K98 on Sisu ETP brochure stuff ... and an earlier SP foray on the T-55 hull.