Airship Carrier - finished

[Buzzbomb]

Things that make you want to go Hmmmm ??
Cleaning up today.. found and old aircraft carrier.. then there was a "hang on" moment.. dig out the Graf Zeppelin 1/720 Revell kit I picked up recently

So.. looks like I have found my next Whiffer project


So.. steampunk or dieselpunk.. we shall see as it evolves.

[GTX_Admin]

I have the exact same pair and also have thought of combining them....watching this one closely.

[Madhatter]

I can see a kind of steam-punk-esque  air-carrier coming from this. Looking forward to seeing what you do with it.
I'm surprised the Zeppelin has as many parts as it does!

[tankmodeler]

Watch out for it being top heavy! Remember, the lift vector for airships is always above the centre of mass (the payload) so they naturally stay upright. Put the heavy bits on top of the gas bag and you'll need a lot of propellers off to the sides to keep it flat side up. Lose the props (like in combat) and the entire thing will turn turtle.

That would be a new definition of "bad" for the crew!   

Much better to find a way to sling the deck below the gas bag and then have dieselpunk biplanes landing on the nice light wooden deck supported by a wooden truss structure underneath. The Elevators could then take the aircraft _up_ into hangers that are just under or within the envelope.

[PR19_Kit]

If the deck was made of unobtanium you wouldn't have a problem.   

You'd just have to ensure the aircraft were struck down to the hangars as they landed and didn't hang around parked on the deck.

[GTX_Admin]

Watch out for it being top heavy! Remember, the lift vector for airships is always above the centre of mass (the payload) so they naturally stay upright. Put the heavy bits on top of the gas bag and you'll need a lot of propellers off to the sides to keep it flat side up. Lose the props (like in combat) and the entire thing will turn turtle.

That would be a new definition of "bad" for the crew!   

So what you're saying is that this might not be the best design?

[Buzzbomb]

So what you're saying is that this might not be the best design?

So.. already been done and rather nicely.
Sadly I am one for letting physics get in the way of a good whiffer.. it has to look practical and Tankmodeller is totally correct.
My inital thoughts were to counter balance the desk with the "Island at the bottom of the world" and other bits.
Of course the discovery of the new Lift Gas "PoliticianHotAirium"   will of course give me plenty of lift

So far all I have done is some taping and part moving around so stay tuned..
To paraphrase a certain Captain Oates
"I am just about to build a welrd model.. I may be some time"
Move along.. nothing to see here... yet :)

[tankmodeler]

So what you're saying is that this might not be the best design?

Yep, exactly a horrible design. Seriously.

If you want to put the flat top on top, you have to add much more mass below. If your imaginary world has something _other_ than Hydrogen or Helium in the gas bag, you might be able to make _that_ work.

Let's imagine that the bags are filled with refined æther (the mythical medium that permitted electromagnetic waves to propogate) and that when energised to create an anti-gravity effect it provided, say, 2000 times as much lift as a similar volume of H2 within Earth's gravity well, then you could put the flat-top on top and the hangers and much of the armament underneath to provide the needed balance to ensure it didn't go belly up.

In ship design terms, this interaction between top weight and buoyancy is called the metacentric height. If it is positive (i.e the CG is below the Centre of Buoyancy[CB]) then the ship stays upright. When the CG gets above the CB, the ship turns turtle. Ships in the North Atlantic run the risk in winter of putting on so much weight in ice on the superstructure that they _do_ turn turtle. It has and continues to happen.

The further the CG is below the CB,the more stable the ship is, but the deeper it sits in the water and the more energy it takes to move it. Warships tend to run with a very narrow margin between the CG and the CB to minimise drag and increase efficiency and so have to continuously watch for things like winter ice or too much mass above the waterline.

And I'm sure that is waaaaay more about this nonsense than you wanted to know.  :)

Ship Design 101 is now over, class dismissed.

Paul

[Kerick]

Just put the flight deck under the gas bag and a couple of little look out stations above. How about some exposed engines underneath and a big prop on the back end.

[GTX_Admin]

Thanks teach...

And now a case of how it WAS done:


Note aircraft compartment.

[tankmodeler]

Got the red X of death on that image, GTX. No can see. :)

[GTX_Admin]

Try now

[tankmodeler]

Indeed, the Akron and Macon.

6 whole aircraft and no flight deck. No big guns or flight island either. 

The real is always more boring than the imagined.  :)

[tankmodeler]

How about some exposed engines underneath and a big prop on the back end.

That would make aircraft recovery operations rathere more "sporty" as the aircraft fights against the turbulance of not only the gasbag, but the prop as well.

[Kerick]

I was just thinking of the pilots who used to launch and recover using the hook device on the Akron and Macron. That had to take some real bravery. I'd like to see people try that today.

[tankmodeler]

I was just thinking of the pilots who used to launch and recover using the hook device on the Akron and Macron. That had to take some real bravery. I'd like to see people try that today.

Bravery, to be sure. Ranked right up there with the guys who tried to do the same task at much higher speeds in the McDonnell Goblin and the F-84 Thunderflash FiCon hook ups to the B-36.

Paul

[Madhatter]

So what you're saying is that this might not be the best design?

Regardless of any design faults or impracticalities and so on, I still think you did a great job on that. I personally really like that!

[PR19_Kit]

They also did it with the F-84K/GRB-36H combo later on. Flying THAT close to something producing gales of wake turbulance must have been horrendous.

[Brian da Basher]

I am of course, watching with great interest, buzz!

I've got a plan for something similar using a 1/144 Kilo sub for the airship, so I look forward to your progress.

Brian da Basher

[MaxHeadroom]

Looks fantastic! WOW!
(But reminding some school-physics, the top-load [landing-strip, hangars and so on] and all the other accessoirs must be muuuch too heavy for such a "tiny" air-ship. )

Max

[jcf]

From the accounts I've read the Sparrowhawk pilots didn't consider
it a big deal, once learned it was routine. Remember that it became
so common for the crews that they were comfortable operating the aircraft
with the landing gear removed. The F9C was small with good power and control
response and the big airships were unmoving islands when compared with the
B-29 or B-36 used in the jet-age projects.

[Buzzbomb]

Righto, to prove that I have not been bone idle.. albeit a little sidetracked with the 234 Mortar carrier.. nonetheless.. the Airship Carrier proceeds.

First up I intend to try and address at least some of the physics practicalities mention in the many terrific posts so far.
So this is where I am at so far
I have cut into the top of the airship a bit to put the deck on.. the kit carrier deck was promptly discarded and plastic card used.
Would have loved to used some wood planking but nothing I had was close to the 1/700 which this is heading towards. Better use nothing that outscale stuff and destroy the illusion
 (of a mythical whiffer ship.. but you get my drift)


So then a bit of work on the "island" which then beckoned some interior, so used some left over PE from the HMS Trident build and cut out an elevator. Also some external buoyancy tanks


Now the dilemma I have is that I am really impressed by MadHatters build with the Sci Fi ship.. so lights are beckoning here as well.
Must.... resist.... the... urge... to.... put.... lights ...... in.... Must.........................resist................

[Kerick]

In a combat situation it would be "lights out"!!!

[Queeg]

Your fellow whiffers demand lights ............ 

[Old Wombat]

So what you're saying is that this might not be the best design?

Regardless of any design faults or impracticalities and so on, I still think you did a great job on that. I personally really like that!

I agree whole-heartedly!

Besides, when you're using phlogiston instead of hydrogen or helium, anything is possible!

Can't wait to see how your build turns out, Brian!

:)

Guy

PS: I don't demand lights - they make me feel ... incompetent ... as a modeller.