Beyond The Sprues
Modelling => Ideas & Inspiration => Aero-space => Topic started by: Daryl J. on May 29, 2012, 06:21:32 AM
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Typhoon: USAF reconnaissance Korea. So why not the Tempest? Well, it would be a better airframe presumably, but Hasegawa make a beautiful Tiffie with plenty of lovely resin bits and it already resides is Ye Humb'l Household.
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SeaTempest anyone?
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/More%20Creations/SeaTempest.jpg)
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Mindless play:
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/More%20Creations/FrontTypfoon.jpg)
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Last one...for now:
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/melbsyd/typhoonr.jpg)
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I've thought of doing a retrograde Tiffie as well where metal becomes scarce and the aircraft reverts to a more conventional airframe of cloth wings and aft fuselage much like the original Hurricane. A few months back I picked up the Monogram kit and some Ultracast goodies for just such a venture.
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This is my attempt at a Hawker P.1027, which is thought would have been the Tempest Mk.VII if it had been produced in numbers. Powered by the RR Eagle 24 cylinder 'H' block engine, my thoughts that it could have been used as a 'jet hunter', on patrol at height and then called in when a jet was spotted.
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Here's a couple with it's wheels on, and one with the drop tanks I put on it
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Damn, that P.1027 looks cool! :icon_surprised: Especially the airborne version. Has a definite "don't mess with me"-look about it. >:D
EDIT: This wouldn't have looked out of place in "Sky Crawlers". In fact, since their premise was to have their aircraft look like the pinnacle of prop-driven fighter design, it would have been right at home there.
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Warhawk engine
(http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j340/ysi_maniac/Drawing/Tempest_p40_2.jpg)
Kittyhawk engine
(http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j340/ysi_maniac/Drawing/Tempest_p40_1.jpg)
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Is that a 'scale-a-rama' Carlos ?
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No scaleorama.
Scales are roughly the same. Only propeller can be out of scale: I took it from a Spitfire 22
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The Merlin setup on the Kittyhawk is quite a bit smaller than the Sabre on a Tempest Carlos, the bottom of the Kittyhawks radiator doesn't even get below the wing on the Tempest if you place the two together. Measuring the Kittyhawk it's 20.5mm from top of cowling to bottom of radiator, for the the Tempest it's 25.5mm, these are both 1/72 kits btw, and that's a massive real world 18" [457mm] difference.
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SeaTempest anyone?
([url]http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/More%20Creations/SeaTempest.jpg[/url])
Hawker P.1009 derivative fom a Tempest instead of a Typhoon?
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The Merlin setup on the Kittyhawk is quite a bit smaller than the Sabre on a Tempest Carlos, the bottom of the Kittyhawks radiator doesn't even get below the wing on the Tempest if you place the two together. Measuring the Kittyhawk it's 20.5mm from top of cowling to bottom of radiator, for the the Tempest it's 25.5mm, these are both 1/72 kits btw, and that's a massive real world 18" [457mm] difference.
What do you mean?
I labeled wrong the drawings but, anyway, I am not considering Merlin, but Allison V-1710
Please, measure from top of the hood to bottom of wing (note that you do not have complete wing in your P-40 fuselage half). Difference is not big.
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What do you mean?
I labeled wrong the drawings but, anyway, I am not considering Merlin, but Allison V-1710
Please, measure from top of the hood to bottom of wing (note that you do not have complete wing in your P-40 fuselage half). Difference is not big.
Hi Carlos, I wouldn't measure from top of 'hood' to bottom of wing, it's not apples to apples. I measured from top of fuselage just in front of the canopies to a parallel line at the bottom of the radiators. I then check each fuselage side against some 1/72 drawings of each aircraft that appear in 'Aircraft of the Fighting Powers' books, and the kits are not far off the scale drawings. (Note: I do know that the drawings in these books have somewhat of a dis-information factor in them as the early ones were published during the war, but the Tempest and Kittyhawk appear in volumns published after the war)
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I am not considering Merlin, but Allison V-1710
From what I've read in one of the Rolls Royce books I have, the Allison and Merlin were very close in size and weight, but here's a couple of pics of Griffon engined Tempests, the Mk.III & Mk.IV, to give you an idea. The Griffon was a much larger engine than either of the other two.
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Here's a couple of pics of drawings given to me of the Mk.III by the Typhoon/Tempest Specialist at Air-Britain Historical Society.
Even here you can see that the radiator housing only just clears the bottom of the fuselage. After I got these drawings I tried to make a model of it, (last post), but not long ago my Dad gave me some old 'The Aeroplane' books, one from 1948 which had a cutaway drawing of the Fairey Firefly Mk.I, there was a note pointing at the engine area which said "Griffon Power Egg". I realised then that was what is on the Tempest Mk.III drawing and I'm changing my model build by using the front end from a Firefly. It matches very well when placed over the drawing.
If you have a Firefly kit, try placing it over the Kittyhawk and see what the difference is ---
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Here's a pic of the Kittyhawk fuselage over the Tempests, I've lined up the tops of the fuselage at the leading edge of the canopies. I can't measure it with the wings because I donated the Tempest wings to Evan
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^^^^^
IMO that is fine for a whiffer :) :) :)
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Would ya' have a look at those! :)
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^^^^^
You will see!
Be patient and see this: http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=1452.0 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=1452.0) ;)
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I have to admit that my interpretation of the Mk.IV is a bit of conjecture, but my reasoning is this. The Mk.IV was given the serial LA610, and was the prototype for the 'light weight' Tempest. Basically what they did was to move the wings in closer together so that the inside sides of the wheel bays almost touch at the center of the fuselage. The project was then transfered to the Hawker Fury program and LA610 went with it. It next appeared like this below, there are lots of photos of this prototype on the internet and my guess is that the cowling configuration must have been considered before when it was the Tempest Mk.IV. But, and I do stress 'but', there's no photographic proof it was like that.
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That looks good.
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Oh yeah!!! X 2
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Brilliant twin boom! 8)
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Did someone say Twin Tiffie?
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/More%20Creations/twintiffietop.gif)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/More%20Creations/twintiffietop2.gif)
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Perhaps a Seaphoon?
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4071/34917253844_cc8f20cf1b_c.jpg)
Chris
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Typhoon + Fw190
(http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j340/ysi_maniac/Drawing/typhoon_fw190.jpg) (http://s1080.photobucket.com/user/ysi_maniac/media/Drawing/typhoon_fw190.jpg.html)
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How about a Typhoon or Tempest Floatplane fighter for the FAA. Used for convoy escort as well as a replacement for some of the cruiser launched aircraft. The thought of it being used against the Japanese in the Pacific by the RAAF also comes to mind ;D
Its a big heavy very fast plane and would imaging a large central float and (possibly retractable) outrigger floats would not be as big an impediment for the big Hawkers as for smaller types.
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Drag, drag, and more drag. ;)
With the size of the Typhoon it may be better to go the Blackburn B.44 route:
(http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2012/269/5/f/hodgekins_the_blackburn_b44_by_kirovrampager-d5fzuy5.png)
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How about a Typhoon or Tempest Floatplane fighter for the FAA. .
Would this suffice?
(http://www.scaleworkshop.com/workshop/images/monsoontm_e.jpg)
1/48 Hawker Monsoon by Tory Mucaro (http://www.scaleworkshop.com/workshop/monsoontm_1.htm)
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Tah, I'll have three of those for my RAN Renown and KGV thankyou very much :)
Sweet model and exactly what I was thinking.
I was also thinking of a Blackburn Firebrand floatplane fighter, don't have one of them hiding somewhere?
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Drag, drag, and more drag. ;)
With the size of the Typhoon it may be better to go the Blackburn B.44 route:
([url]http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2012/269/5/f/hodgekins_the_blackburn_b44_by_kirovrampager-d5fzuy5.png[/url])
I wish someone would release a kit of that.
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With the size of the Typhoon it may be better to go the Blackburn B.44 route:
I wish someone would release a kit of that.
I wish someone would release a kit of the B.20 too!
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Random idea: twin seat Typhoon or Tempest using similar arrangement to Sea Fury T.20.
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Like this Greg? Kaiser Aircraft Industries TF2K-1 Wasp Trainer. Base kit is Academy Typhoon 1b with the cockpit from a PM Seafury T.61. Drop tanks from a Hurricane. Decal from F6F and spares.
(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n547/CF-101B/Modelling%202015/9dbe2736-796c-48f1-abb8-f51d78f9bc90.jpg)
http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=5631.0 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=5631.0)
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Exactly! :)
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How about a Typhoon or Tempest Floatplane fighter for the FAA. .
Would this suffice?
([url]http://www.scaleworkshop.com/workshop/images/monsoontm_e.jpg[/url])
1/48 Hawker Monsoon by Tory Mucaro ([url]http://www.scaleworkshop.com/workshop/monsoontm_1.htm[/url])
Know that's a lovely model and believable concept IMO! :-*
M.A.D
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Random ideas:
- Twin Tempest similar in concept to P-82
- Reno Racer Tempest with Sabre engine
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- Reno Racer Tempest with Sabre engine
I've seen a Griffon Sea Fury suggested at the AAFO Air Racin' forum...I'm loathe to cut up my Matchbox Tempest II so may just go stock!
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- Reno Racer Tempest with Sabre engine
I've seen a Griffon Sea Fury suggested at the AAFO Air Racin' forum...I'm loathe to cut up my Matchbox Tempest II so may just go stock!
Like this maybe ----
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Hawker Twinphoon
some fun with colour photos.
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:smiley:
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Isn't that a Twinpest, instead?
The nose looks a little bulky on those. Maybe it could be a little more like the Whirlwind nose.
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1/72 Tempest MK. I via the Jays Model conversion kit and the Academy Tempest Mk.V.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/811/39964636165_2ee17f4570_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/23TxcZ8)Tempest-MK1-05 (https://flic.kr/p/23TxcZ8) by Big Gimper (https://www.flickr.com/photos/21812089@N02/), on Flickr
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/810/40150033814_e1f718e086_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/24aVqfj)Tempest-MK1-04 (https://flic.kr/p/24aVqfj) by Big Gimper (https://www.flickr.com/photos/21812089@N02/), on Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4795/39964636265_348821d0b7_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/23Txd1R)Tempest-MK1-02 (https://flic.kr/p/23Txd1R) by Big Gimper (https://www.flickr.com/photos/21812089@N02/), on Flickr
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Love Hawker Twinphoon!!!! :-* :-* :-* :-*
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Random idea: Turboprop Tempest
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1/72 Tempest MK. I via the Jays Model conversion kit and the Academy Tempest Mk.V.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/811/39964636165_2ee17f4570_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/23TxcZ8)Tempest-MK1-05 (https://flic.kr/p/23TxcZ8) by Big Gimper (https://www.flickr.com/photos/21812089@N02/), on Flickr
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/810/40150033814_e1f718e086_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/24aVqfj)Tempest-MK1-04 (https://flic.kr/p/24aVqfj) by Big Gimper (https://www.flickr.com/photos/21812089@N02/), on Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4795/39964636265_348821d0b7_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/23Txd1R)Tempest-MK1-02 (https://flic.kr/p/23Txd1R) by Big Gimper (https://www.flickr.com/photos/21812089@N02/), on Flickr
Tempted to use the same bits to make a production Tempest I, with the production tail, and use a serial from the Tempest I production contract that was shifted to Tempest V's.
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Random idea: Turboprop Tempest
Or Fury/Sea Fury. I is in the family and a little later design.
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I originally went for the Tempest on the basis of the Napier Sabre engine and radiator configuration giving a good basis for modification into a turboprop configuration similar to this:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/48/HOP_ATR42_F-GPYC_25sep14_LFBO-2.jpg/1600px-HOP_ATR42_F-GPYC_25sep14_LFBO-2.jpg)
Moreover, the larger wing of the Tempest vs the Fury family gave more potential for underwing pylons if one wanted to go for something with a predominately ground attack role.
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How about a Typhoon or Tempest Floatplane fighter for the FAA. .
Would this suffice?
([url]http://www.scaleworkshop.com/workshop/images/monsoontm_e.jpg[/url])
1/48 Hawker Monsoon by Tory Mucaro ([url]http://www.scaleworkshop.com/workshop/monsoontm_1.htm[/url])
Beautiful model!! :P :-*
M.A.D
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Found on Facebook on the Monogram Scale Models group. 1/48 scale. You're welcome Greg.
(https://scontent.fxds1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/42576617_10217007741848670_2717591319038918656_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&oh=dfa5cddddbf18642974af585350a4840&oe=5C25623A)
(https://scontent.fxds1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/42619364_10217007742688691_615713798451363840_o.jpg?_nc_cat=100&oh=7b81a7b362bcedcaa621f5b5a67edc3e&oe=5C2026EC)
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Silver and blue works for me.
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:smiley:
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Just an odd thought, the RAF gets nervous about whether the Napier Sabre's development problems can be resolved and negotiates a "Reverse Lend-Lease" deal with the USSR for production and development rights to the AM-38 for use in place of the Sabre, perhaps produced by Fairey.
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Did someone say Twin Tiffie?
([url]http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/More%20Creations/twintiffietop.gif[/url])
This one makes me moist!
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The forgotten sister to the Hawker Typhoon: The Hawker Tornado:
(https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/attachments/hawker-tornado-r7936-jpg.500763/)
(https://www.baesystems.com/en/download-en/heritageimage/webImage/20190114161956/1434622611411.jpg)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4b/Hawker_Tornado.svg/1280px-Hawker_Tornado.svg.png)
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The forgotten sister to the Hawker Typhoon: The Hawker Tornado:
...
Or an intermediate step between Hurricane and Typhoon.
I see that Wikipedia has an SVG file, which could be handy for those who like to make drawings.
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The forgotten sister to the Hawker Typhoon: The Hawker Tornado:
:smiley: :smiley: I always liked the Centaurus-powered Tornado (like your Reply #3 ).
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IIRC, that Tornado with the contra-prop was assigned to one of the propeller manufacturing companies to be used in testing the contra-props, either Rotol or De Havilland.
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IIRC, that Tornado with the contra-prop was assigned to one of the propeller manufacturing companies to be used in testing the contra-props, either Rotol or De Havilland.
According to Flying to the Limit: Testing WW II Single-engined Fighters by Peter Caygill, Tornado R7936 was used to test both de Havilland and Rotol contra-props. I think in the attached image, the DH props are shown.
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Odd thought for grins, cross a Tornado with a Typhoon, a Vulture-powered Typhoon would look attractively different.
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Odd thought for grins, cross a Tornado with a Typhoon, a Vulture-powered Typhoon would look attractively different.
If you put a Vulture on a Typhoon, you'd get a Tornado Evan, from what I've read, the wing had to be dropped 3"+ for the Vulture to fit the Typhoon fuselage, something to do with what was hanging off the back of the engine that had to go 'over' the wing spar --- or something like that.
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Correction, I meant cross a Tornado with a Tempest.
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Yeah, that would have some people scratching their heads wouldn't it --- I like that idea too, I've got a Hawker Tornado conversion in the stash ---- think on it I will :icon_meditation: :icon_meditation: :icon_meditation:
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Correction, I meant cross a Tornado with a Tempest.
Hmmm, ... maybe Tempest I-style leading-edge radiators + earliest Vulture installation on the Tornado?
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I've got a Hawker Tornado conversion in the stash
What scale?
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I've got a Hawker Tornado conversion in the stash
What scale?
The one ""True Scale"" >:D >:D >:D (you should know me by now Greg ;D ) It's a Maintrack conversion. I'll have to dig it out but I think they did the version with the radiator 'Hurricane' style, and also the beard radiator (chin).
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This one?
(https://www.scalemates.com/products/img/1/9/9/258199-13796-96-pristine.jpg)
I wonder if anyone has done a 1/48 scale for those of us not suffering from the 1/72 affliction?
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I see they also did this one:
(https://www.scalemates.com/products/img/0/3/1/1136031-10105-36-pristine.jpg)
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Supposedly there was also this full kit, alas still in the wrong scale. Guess I might need to scratch build.
(https://www.scalemates.com/products/img/4/6/4/148464-13409-49-pristine.jpg)
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I've got both those Maintrack conversions and the LF one. Seeing the LF box jogged the little grey cells ----
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The LF Models kit exists, I have seen them for sale on Ebay. It's really tempting to buy one, clone the engine installation and install it on a Tempest along with the tempest mk.I leading edge radiators.
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(http://www.clavework-graphics.co.uk/aircraft/fantasy_2/F126_Typhoon_364FS.jpg)
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For those wanting a ground-attack fighter without the vulnerability of a cooling system, how about a Centaurus-powered Typhoon? For more fun, in USAAF markings replacing P-47s in some fighter group.
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That would be a subtle whiff that could cause people to go scrambling for reference books to confirm.. >:D
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While looking for sprue photos (there are none) of the upcoming 1/72 KP Tempest MK.II/F.2/FB.2 I found this report on the Tempest performance and a comparison of it to the P-47 Thunderbolt. Very interesting.
http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/tempest/tempest-II-cfe.html (http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/tempest/tempest-II-cfe.html)
(https://d26qn1y84zs32g.cloudfront.net/pics/KPM72226.jpg?t=1611335577)
(https://d26qn1y84zs32g.cloudfront.net/pics/KPM72227.jpg?t=1611335594)
(https://d26qn1y84zs32g.cloudfront.net/pics/KPM72228.jpg?t=1611350642)
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Breaking news!
Another episode of: "attraction to a distraction"
Regarding a paper only Typhoon based design found on SPF (link below):
Early in 1940 the Air Ministry issued Specification F.4/40 calling for a two-seat, high-altitude interceptor to counter the threat posed by high flying reconnaissance Junkers Ju 86 P.
To meet this requirement, Hawker proposed the project P.1004, a 25 per cent scaled-up version of the Typhoon with a second crewman, pressurised cockpit and six wing-mounted Hispano cannons.
Early 1941 the Specification was revised as F.7/41 and the P.1004 was dropped in favour of the Westland Welkin.
P.1004 technical data
Power plant: One Napier Sabre Mk 1 S.M, 24 cylinder ‘H’, liquid cooled engine, rated at 1,850 hp, driving one de Havilland three-bladed constant-speed airscrew, wingspan: 52 ft (15.8 m), length: 39 ft (11.9 m), wing surface: 405 sq.ft (37.7 sq.m), estimated maximum weight: 13,930 lbs (6,319 kg) with 283 gal. fuel, estimated maximum speed: 380 mph (611 kph), estimated ceiling: 37,000 ft (12,280 m), rate of climb: 2,250 ft/min, armament: six wing-mounted 20 mm Hispano Mk.II cannons.
I believe this is buildable.
I would need a 6' fuselage inset starting at the end of the canopy.
The wing chord taper is good. Need to find/build the 4 1/2' extensions. Suggestions?
A MK.II could be built up using wing radiators (Tempest MK.I) or a radial engine (Tempest MK.II) . Need to research engine performance at attitude.
Attached are photos of the Brengun Typhoon MK.Ia kit overlaid on Justo's drawings (98-99% to 1/72 scale).
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53176789962_d8a9695fd7_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2p23X1f)
RAF-Hawker-P1004-02 (https://flic.kr/p/2p23X1f) by Big Gimper (https://www.flickr.com/photos/21812089@N02/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53177578039_168d70207b_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2p27ZgM)
RAF-Hawker-P1004-01 (https://flic.kr/p/2p27ZgM) by Big Gimper (https://www.flickr.com/photos/21812089@N02/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53177378056_841e3298b4_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2p26XPN)
IMG-3122 (https://flic.kr/p/2p26XPN) by Big Gimper (https://www.flickr.com/photos/21812089@N02/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53177813485_f608ab1313_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2p29cgc)
IMG-3120 (https://flic.kr/p/2p29cgc) by Big Gimper (https://www.flickr.com/photos/21812089@N02/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53176787842_f3f0b1388b_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2p23WnG)
IMG-3121 (https://flic.kr/p/2p23WnG) by Big Gimper (https://www.flickr.com/photos/21812089@N02/), on Flickr
SPF Source: https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/anybody-got-drawings-from-the-hawker-p-1004-project.36496/ (https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/anybody-got-drawings-from-the-hawker-p-1004-project.36496/)
To be continued ....
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.... and now on to part 2
I have a copy of the Maintrack Tornado conversion.
This photo is a brain storming session on how to built Vulture engined Tornados, Typhoons and Tempests.
The top fuselage is the Maintrack conversion. Ughh! Uses the ancient Airfix Typhoon kit. Will get better Typhoon wings and exhausts from a Hurricane. Photos show a very close match. .
The middle fuselage is the Academy Typhoon MK.Ib. If I file down the exhaust stacks and replace with two from a Hurricane, it's a Vulture. The chin cooler is a bit small, it can built up if required
The bottom fuselage is the Academy Tempest MK.V. If I fill in exhaust stacks cut outs and replace with two from a Hurricane, it's a Vulture. The chin cooler is almost the same size.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53177813405_67c6d1b395_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2p29ceP)
Tornado-08 (https://flic.kr/p/2p29ceP) by Big Gimper (https://www.flickr.com/photos/21812089@N02/), on Flickr
Brengun makes the MK.Ia so this is my starting place.
A quick check shows a bubble canopy can be easily substituted so there will be MK.Ib.
And maybe a MK.II and MK.III.
Mua ha ha ha ha!
(https://www.super-hobby.com/zdjecia/8/2/5/41479_rd.png)
(https://www.super-hobby.com/zdjecia/8/0/1/45328_1_BRE-P72012_2.jpg)
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I imagine Tempests might have been effective in some places in Africa and the Middle East between the end of WWII and at least the mid 1950s.
In the early post war years, the RAF had around half a dozen Tempest squadrons at their Middle East bases.
I know Britain transfered a bunch of Tempest Mk.II to India in the late 1940s.
RAF Tempests also were used against insurgents in the early years of the Malayan Emergency.
I wonder how the 1948 Arab-Israeli War would have gone if Tempests had been transfered to Israel.
The Tempest might also have been a useful machine in some of the smaller bush wars and border skirmishes in Africa.