Author Topic: Supermarine Attacker Ideas and Inspiration  (Read 9418 times)

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Supermarine Attacker Ideas and Inspiration
« on: July 21, 2013, 04:00:54 PM »
Hi folks,

A thread for your Supermarine Attacker Ideas and Inspiration.

All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Supermarine Attacker Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2013, 04:02:49 PM »
To begin with, how about a '46/'47 scenario with RAF Attackers operating in a forward operating location.  All painted up in green and grey.
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline kitnut617

  • Measures the actual aircraft before modelling it...we have the photographic evidence.
  • Holding Pattern
  • *
  • I'd rather be dirtbike riding...
Re: Supermarine Attacker Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2013, 11:17:04 PM »
I think a nice conversion to do would be to do what the test pilots strongly suggested that Supermarine should do, give it tricycle u/c.  Not too difficult I think ---

Offline Weaver

  • Skyhawk stealer and violator of Panthers, with designs on a Cougar and a Tiger too
  • Chaos Engineer & Evangelistic Agnostic
Re: Supermarine Attacker Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2013, 01:12:57 AM »
'orrible thing: should have spent the money on developing the Sea Hawk faster..... >:D

However, ideas:

1. Turbofan close support aircraft. Replace the Nene with what amounts to a non-vectored Pegasus, i.e. an Orpheus core with Olympus fan stages on the front of it. Hack the rear fuselage about to make it look like the back end of an A-10 nacelle, i.e. a hot pipe in the middle of a cold duct. Fit a Swift-style nose with a nosewheel. Getting appropriately positions main wheels will be difficult with the exisiting wings: my quick'n'dirty suggestion is to replace them with F-84G ones, wihch have nice tip tanks and nice, self-contained gear bay, thus leaving the centreline free for ordnance. Guns can either go in the nose or under the intakes, Swift style. You could even go for STOL capability by claiming that some of the fan air can be ducted down the wings for Buccaneer-style wing blowing.

2. Turboprop close support aircraft. On the other hand, since it's got a tail-dragger undercarriage, why not work with it? Make it into what amounts to a mid-engined Wyvern, with the big turboprop in the centre fuselage driving nose-mounted contra-props via a P-39-style drive shaft. Wings and guns could stay where they are...
"I have described nothing but what I saw myself, or learned from others" - Thucydides

"I've jazzed mine up a bit" - Spike Milligan

"I'm a general specialist," - Harry Purvis in Tales from the White Hart by Arthur C. Clarke

Twitter: @hws5mp
Minds.com: @HaroldWeaverSmith

Offline Daryl J.

  • Assures us he rarely uses model glue in dentistry
Re: Supermarine Attacker Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2013, 01:32:34 AM »
Khemed.    with a T-tail. 

The Trumpeter kit was already purchased and am waiting for the aftermarket to see what happens there.  One thing up for replacement is the tires...as in one's slightly bigger than the correct size.
kwyxdxLg5T

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Supermarine Attacker Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2013, 02:34:12 AM »
2. Turboprop close support aircraft. On the other hand, since it's got a tail-dragger undercarriage, why not work with it? Make it into what amounts to a mid-engined Wyvern, with the big turboprop in the centre fuselage driving nose-mounted contra-props via a P-39-style drive shaft. Wings and guns could stay where they are...

I agree
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Supermarine Attacker Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2013, 02:35:28 AM »
I think a nice conversion to do would be to do what the test pilots strongly suggested that Supermarine should do, give it tricycle u/c.  Not too difficult I think ---

One would need to reposition the wing further back to do that me thinks.  Mind you...move the wing back, move the tailplanes to the nose as canards, add nose wheel...
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline jcf

  • Global Moderator
  • Turn that Gila-copter down!
Re: Supermarine Attacker Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2013, 02:38:04 AM »




H.P. 88, Attacker fuselage, Swift wing-roots and fuel system, crescent wing
to test aerodynamics for H.P. 80 Victor. It had porpoising problems
and crashed fairly early in the test program.
“Conspiracy theory’s got to be simple.
Sense doesn’t come into it. People are
more scared of how complicated shit
actually is than they ever are about
whatever’s supposed to be behind the
conspiracy.”
-The Peripheral, William Gibson 2014

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Supermarine Attacker Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2013, 02:41:08 AM »
Maybe use in a flexible deck arrangement?
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

  • Unaffiliated Independent Subversive...and the last person to go for a trip on a Mexicana dH Comet 4
  • Global Moderator
  • His stash is able to be seen from space...
Re: Supermarine Attacker Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2013, 03:17:33 AM »
Attacker with straight wing could benefit from having some wing tip mounted fuel tanks. 
"Every day we hear about new studies 'revealing' what should have been obvious to sentient beings for generations; 'Research shows wolverines don't like to be teased" -- Jonah Goldberg

Offline upnorth

  • Distorting a reality near you.
  • You want maple syrup on that Macchi?
Re: Supermarine Attacker Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2013, 01:26:12 PM »
I wonder if it could be streamlined a bit by replacing those big cheek intakes with integral wing root types like the Hunter or DeHavilland twin boomers had.

Pickled Wings, A Blog for Preserved Aircraft:
http://pickledwings.com/

Beyond Prague, Traveling the Rest of the Czech Republic:
http://beyondprague.net/

Offline Weaver

  • Skyhawk stealer and violator of Panthers, with designs on a Cougar and a Tiger too
  • Chaos Engineer & Evangelistic Agnostic
Re: Supermarine Attacker Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2013, 07:18:01 PM »
Actually, I think the intakes are one of the better bits of design on it. The centre fuselage has to be that diameter, no matter what else you do, to accomodate the (centrifugal) Nene, so you might as well stick an oval forward fuselage on it and use the discontinuity between the two cross sections as the intakes.
"I have described nothing but what I saw myself, or learned from others" - Thucydides

"I've jazzed mine up a bit" - Spike Milligan

"I'm a general specialist," - Harry Purvis in Tales from the White Hart by Arthur C. Clarke

Twitter: @hws5mp
Minds.com: @HaroldWeaverSmith

Offline kitnut617

  • Measures the actual aircraft before modelling it...we have the photographic evidence.
  • Holding Pattern
  • *
  • I'd rather be dirtbike riding...
Re: Supermarine Attacker Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2013, 09:36:02 PM »
H.P. 88, Attacker fuselage, Swift wing-roots and fuel system, crescent wing
to test aerodynamics for H.P. 80 Victor. It had porpoising problems
and crashed fairly early in the test program.

I'll have to build the Maintrack kit I have of that Jon, along with the 510 & 545 I recently got hold of.

Offline Daryl J.

  • Assures us he rarely uses model glue in dentistry
Re: Supermarine Attacker Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2016, 11:35:05 AM »
Take the wings off, paint it Oscar Meyer red, scratchbuild a suitable sized bun and hot dog!  Success!
kwyxdxLg5T

Offline KiwiZac

  • The Modeller Formerly Known As K5054NZ
Re: Supermarine Attacker Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2016, 10:01:54 AM »
Last year I wrote an (IMO) awesome backstory about a tri-gear Attacker being developed after the limitations of the tailwheel became apparent, and this version becoming much more successful. Sadly it was lost, along with a ton of other stuff, thanks to a Windows 10 update. Just an idea for someone to pursue :)
Zac in NZ
#avgeek, modelbuilder, photographer, writer. Callsign: "HANDBAG"
https://linktr.ee/zacyates

Offline The Big Gimper

  • Any model will look better in RCAF, SEAC or FAA markings
  • Global Moderator
  • Cut. Cut. Cut. Measure. Cut. Cut. Crap. Toss.
    • Photobucket Modeling Album
Re: Supermarine Attacker Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2016, 10:13:05 AM »
Last year I wrote an (IMO) awesome backstory about a tri-gear Attacker being developed after the limitations of the tailwheel became apparent, and this version becoming much more successful. Sadly it was lost, along with a ton of other stuff, thanks to a Windows 10 update. Just an idea for someone to pursue :)


Sorry to hear that Zac. How did you move the CG forward?

Did you not see this?  :icon_fsm:



I'm still running 7 and the Windows 10 upgrade nagware is non stop.
Work in progress ::

I am giving up listing them. They all end up on the shelf of procrastination anyways.

User and abuser of Bothans...

Offline apophenia

  • Perversely enjoys removing backgrounds.
  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Supermarine Attacker Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #16 on: June 14, 2016, 11:33:54 AM »
Last year I wrote an (IMO) awesome backstory about a tri-gear Attacker being developed after the limitations of the tailwheel became apparent, and this version becoming much more successful. Sadly it was lost, along with a ton of other stuff, thanks to a Windows 10 update. Just an idea for someone to pursue :)


Sorry to hear about your Windows 10 'update'  :P  but thanks for the tricycle Attacker inspiration!

http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=351.msg109719#msg109719
Froglord: "... amphibious doom descends ... approach the alter and swear your allegiance to the swamp."

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Supermarine Attacker Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #17 on: June 15, 2016, 07:28:47 AM »
A different sort of tricycle undercarriage approach:



Front canards would be angled up somewhat and be high mounted so as to ensure cannon were clear.
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline KiwiZac

  • The Modeller Formerly Known As K5054NZ
Re: Supermarine Attacker Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #18 on: June 15, 2016, 10:28:04 AM »
How did you move the CG forward?
Just moving the wing rearward slightly, not as drastically as Greg's image though!

I know, I didn't heed the warnings. The weird thing was that it wasn't the upgrade(?) to Windows 10 that wiped it but a regular "Windows needs to restart to install an update" update. And yes, I have been told many times to backup.
Zac in NZ
#avgeek, modelbuilder, photographer, writer. Callsign: "HANDBAG"
https://linktr.ee/zacyates

Offline Daryl J.

  • Assures us he rarely uses model glue in dentistry
Re: Supermarine Attacker Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2017, 12:08:34 AM »
Do to the Attacker as Lockheed did to the F-104 to get the U-2.
kwyxdxLg5T

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Supermarine Attacker Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #20 on: February 05, 2017, 03:36:13 AM »
Do to the Attacker as Lockheed did to the F-104 to get the U-2.

I like your thinking. :)
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline elmayerle

  • Its about time there was an Avatar shown here...
  • Über Engineer...at least that is what he tells us.
Re: Supermarine Attacker Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #21 on: January 22, 2019, 12:21:50 PM »
I think a nice conversion to do would be to do what the test pilots strongly suggested that Supermarine should do, give it tricycle u/c.  Not too difficult I think ---
The new edition of BSP3 has a drawing of a tricycle u/c variant of the Attacker studied by Supermarine.  Very interesting and looks to be a fairly doable conversion.

Offline finsrin

  • The Dr Frankenstein of the modelling world...when not hiding from SBA
  • Finds part glues it on, finds part glues it on....
Re: Supermarine Attacker Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #22 on: January 22, 2019, 03:03:54 PM »
Geeze.  Is Attacker planform I missed.   8)

Offline kitnut617

  • Measures the actual aircraft before modelling it...we have the photographic evidence.
  • Holding Pattern
  • *
  • I'd rather be dirtbike riding...
Re: Supermarine Attacker Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #23 on: January 22, 2019, 11:24:07 PM »
I think a nice conversion to do would be to do what the test pilots strongly suggested that Supermarine should do, give it tricycle u/c.  Not too difficult I think ---
The new edition of BSP3 has a drawing of a tricycle u/c variant of the Attacker studied by Supermarine.  Very interesting and looks to be a fairly doable conversion.

Another book I will have to get. Is there much more in it to make it worth while Evan, I've got all the 1st editions.

Offline elmayerle

  • Its about time there was an Avatar shown here...
  • Über Engineer...at least that is what he tells us.
Re: Supermarine Attacker Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #24 on: January 23, 2019, 01:12:35 AM »
I haven't done a direct comparison, but there is material I've not seen before.  I definitely found it worthwhile, YMMV.