I always thought the Lightning would look good as a delta wing design.
Giving it a cranked arrow style wing would give it more internal fuel volume, perhaps enough to at least reduce the under fuselage bulge to no more than F.3 proportions.
I like that!
Though bashing it with an Su-7 isn't going to give it any better range. ;D
Perhaps replacing it with a Medway with reheat? A 1/48 Spey exhaust nozzle would work well as a 1/72 Medway one.I like that!
Though bashing it with an Su-7 isn't going to give it any better range. ;D
Yes but getting rid of the Lyulka AL-7 might: that thing turned as much fuel into smoke as it did into thrust...... :o
Simple paint job. Re-locate to the Robert Harris "Fatherland" universe and the Lightning is serving with the Luftwaffe as a QRF on the border with the USSR. Even a chance to do one in a "special" scheme to celebrate Hitlers 70th birthday
I always thought the Lightning would look good as a delta wing design.
Giving it a cranked arrow style wing would give it more internal fuel volume, perhaps enough to at least reduce the under fuselage bulge to no more than F.3 proportions.
As a variation on this suggestion, what about a testbed with a wing similar to the Concorde. Maybe similar in concept to the MiG-21 testbed for the Tu-144:
Well, the RM-6C had better afterburner performance than the Avon 300 in the Lightning did. The J79 would be a tight fit, but might work. If they soldiered on with Avon's until the late 1970's, F404's would be a fascinating option. I've always wanted to do a Lightning FG.2B with the full set of 4x30mm nose cannon, plus the belly cannons and the export wing with hardpoints (with double MATRA pods, or MATRA combined rocket pods and fuel tanks, on each).
([url]http://i50.tinypic.com/262oaqx.jpg[/url])
What about a pair of Turbo-Union RB199s plus new cockpit/canopy plus new radar say, something like the APG68 plus updated missiles for a Lightning for the '90s and beyond?
They looked at integrating Sparrow on Lightnings, but it proved impossible with 1960s technology to add the CW illumination fuction to the AI.23 radar. It's not so much the diameter of the dish, more the fact that the whole radar is very tightly packed into the intake bullet and there's just not room for extra black boxes or slightly bigger versions of existing ones. The only way to do it would be to use a completely new radar but that's an order of magnitude more expensive.
They looked at integrating Sparrow on Lightnings, but it proved impossible with 1960s technology to add the CW illumination fuction to the AI.23 radar. It's not so much the diameter of the dish, more the fact that the whole radar is very tightly packed into the intake bullet and there's just not room for extra black boxes or slightly bigger versions of existing ones. The only way to do it would be to use a completely new radar but that's an order of magnitude more expensive.
Reading Battle Flight, it says that in the end Red Top did what Sparrow did so they didn't bother with all the extra work they would have had to do. I've always wondered what an F-4 would have done with Red Tops
Reading Battle Flight, it says that in the end Red Top did what Sparrow did so they didn't bother with all the extra work they would have had to do. I've always wondered what an F-4 would have done with Red Tops
They looked at integrating Sparrow on Lightnings, but it proved impossible with 1960s technology to add the CW illumination fuction to the AI.23 radar. It's not so much the diameter of the dish, more the fact that the whole radar is very tightly packed into the intake bullet and there's just not room for extra black boxes or slightly bigger versions of existing ones. The only way to do it would be to use a completely new radar but that's an order of magnitude more expensive.
Reading Battle Flight, it says that in the end Red Top did what Sparrow did so they didn't bother with all the extra work they would have had to do. I've always wondered what an F-4 would have done with Red Tops
If that's the case just go for extra Red Top on the wing stations, a graphic I saw indicates the rocket pod load out was up to two on each of the four over and under wing stations so up to 8 Red Top plus 6 ADEN for my Whiff ;D
Now with the Lightning serving into the 90s or 2000s then we have AMRAAM and ASRAAM and no need for a CW illuminator
^ Interesting thoughts! :)
Here's another Super Lightning!
([url]http://hushkit.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/super-lightning32.jpg[/url])
SOURCE ([url]http://hushkit.wordpress.com/2013/02/01/the-ultimate-what-if-bae-super-lightning/[/url])
Now it kinda bugs me that I sold off my Italeri Super Hornet that cheap. Those intakes would've come in handy.
And this one doesn't look half-bad either:
([url]http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2014/059/d/8/copperheadysf23_eurofighter_super_lightning_ra_by_copperheadysf23-d78e2as.png[/url])
SOURCE ([url]http://copperheadysf23.deviantart.com/art/CopperheadYSF23-Eurofighter-Super-Lightning-RA-437356324[/url])
Here's another Super Lightning!
([url]http://hushkit.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/super-lightning32.jpg[/url])
SOURCE ([url]http://hushkit.wordpress.com/2013/02/01/the-ultimate-what-if-bae-super-lightning/[/url])
^ Interesting thoughts! :)
Here's another Super Lightning!
([url]http://hushkit.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/super-lightning32.jpg[/url])
SOURCE ([url]http://hushkit.wordpress.com/2013/02/01/the-ultimate-what-if-bae-super-lightning/[/url])
Now it kinda bugs me that I sold off my Italeri Super Hornet that cheap. Those intakes would've come in handy.
And this one doesn't look half-bad either:
([url]http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2014/059/d/8/copperheadysf23_eurofighter_super_lightning_ra_by_copperheadysf23-d78e2as.png[/url])
SOURCE ([url]http://copperheadysf23.deviantart.com/art/CopperheadYSF23-Eurofighter-Super-Lightning-RA-437356324[/url])
:) Top stuff, who needs the F-35 !
MOD EDIT to put the texts where they belong. ;)
How hard would wing tip missiles be to do on a Lightning wing?
And for another idea, what about an Indian one painted up in a similar scheme to this:
([url]http://www.arcair.com/Fea1/401-500/Fea459_MiG-21_Singh/image001.jpg[/url])([url]http://www.arcair.com/Fea1/401-500/Fea459_MiG-21_Singh/image008.jpg[/url])
speaking of which, what about a more modern ground attack one with LGBs?
The nice thing about Sea Vixen is that, in order to fit it into the Sea Harrier,
Singapore would have been another logical operator considering how long the RAF operated the type there and its point defence nature.
Reading some of Chris Gibson's books about Lightnings and Genies, there wasn't a possibility to mount them on the existing pylons because they were too heavy and really upset the cg. It was then proposed to mount the Genies further back off the belly tank.
Just recently someone posted some pics of a mock-up installation of some type of missile in that position, I thought it was in this thread but it doen't look like it now I've just gone all through it. Now where did I see that picture --- ???
You're right Harold, went and had a re-read. But I could have sworn that was what I had read somewhere so spent some time looking around.
Well -- erm! I had the wrong missile :-[ , it was a Bullpup installation I was really thinking off which is a missile twice as heavy. (on the 'What-If forum of all places to find it :-X )
I have a picture in a recent book on the Lightning which shows a Genie shape in that position.
You'll also note your picture is of the early prototype overwing drop tanks with fins. The fins were found to be unnecessary, with tank separation working without them, so their added drag was found unnecessary.
Examining my sons 1/100 die cast BAC Lightning another possible armament option dawned on me when I looked at the amount of space forward of the main undercarriage if the fuselage missile rails were deleted. Imagine the twin rail inner pylon as used on the F-4 Phantom being installed in this area, it would double the number of missiles, permit the alternate cannon armament to be installed in the lower fuselage, while leaving the above wing and outer wing hard points for other ordinance. Can anyone see a reason why this would not work?
Take the F.6 fin all the way out to a point? You might have to start folding the fin to get it into the HAS.Examining my sons 1/100 die cast BAC Lightning another possible armament option dawned on me when I looked at the amount of space forward of the main undercarriage if the fuselage missile rails were deleted. Imagine the twin rail inner pylon as used on the F-4 Phantom being installed in this area, it would double the number of missiles, permit the alternate cannon armament to be installed in the lower fuselage, while leaving the above wing and outer wing hard points for other ordinance. Can anyone see a reason why this would not work?
I wonder how big the fin would need to be? When they replaced the Firestreak missiles with Red Tops in the F.3 version, they had to increase the size of the fin quite a bit. When they introduced the F.6 with it's bigger belly tank, they had to increase the fin again. I can imagine what would be needed if you added more fin area to the front of the fuselage, with twin missiles.
Take the F.6 fin all the way out to a point? You might have to start folding the fin to get it into the HAS.Examining my sons 1/100 die cast BAC Lightning another possible armament option dawned on me when I looked at the amount of space forward of the main undercarriage if the fuselage missile rails were deleted. Imagine the twin rail inner pylon as used on the F-4 Phantom being installed in this area, it would double the number of missiles, permit the alternate cannon armament to be installed in the lower fuselage, while leaving the above wing and outer wing hard points for other ordinance. Can anyone see a reason why this would not work?
I wonder how big the fin would need to be? When they replaced the Firestreak missiles with Red Tops in the F.3 version, they had to increase the size of the fin quite a bit. When they introduced the F.6 with it's bigger belly tank, they had to increase the fin again. I can imagine what would be needed if you added more fin area to the front of the fuselage, with twin missiles.
twin fin would be tricky on something as skinny as the lightning
twin fin would be tricky on something as skinny as the lightning
Have a look at Reply #67, one of the original designs had a twin fin (and T-Tail too)
twin fin would be tricky on something as skinny as the lightning
Have a look at Reply #67, one of the original designs had a twin fin (and T-Tail too)
how did i miss that!, looks very german like that
I have a picture in a recent book on the Lightning which shows a Genie shape in that position.
I note that aircraft doesn't have any air-to-air missiles. I suspect the black boxes for the Bullpup guidance replaced them. There simply wasn't much room in the Lightning airframe for extra systems without sacrificing something.
Random idea: Lightning Target Drone (akin to QF-4s)
I keep thinking of a Lightning for the Snoops. Spooks group build as a Recce lightning.
It would certainly be fast enough but the lack of legs sort of kills the idea off.
Freightdog do a conversion for the ground-attack Lightning, which also includes a pair of N1 bombs:
[url]http://www.freightdogmodels.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=27_29&products_id=1000&osCsid=b93ae58e6b2746e71cfb6da622fd1b0f[/url] ([url]http://www.freightdogmodels.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=27_29&products_id=1000&osCsid=b93ae58e6b2746e71cfb6da622fd1b0f[/url])
I've got one of these sets, but I intend to use it with some Odd'n'Ordnance AS.30s originally intended for Buccaneers.
Greg: From which of the two books did you get the images from?
Yeah, sorry: I tend to forget that other people build things in wierd scales.... ;)
Feeling the need for a road trip to visit a certain personal library
Feeling the need for a road trip to visit a certain personal library
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS2Hx12B0d5KH5aUgRUPS35WblzYewVlFBBbvRnspidhiFaH21ISA)
Yeah, sorry: I tend to forget that other people build things in wierd scales.... ;)
Who you calling weird...weirdo!!!
Yeah, sorry: I tend to forget that other people build things in wierd scales.... ;)
Who you calling weird...weirdo!!!
Deviants and heretics from the One True Scale, of course.... ;)
Yes, I'm aware of and have seen the official BAC drawings and brochures around the net. What I meant that if someone had digged further into it, were there any "serious" plans to further redesign the wing if anyone caught the bait, or would this have been it.
([url]https://combatace.com/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh173/SPINNERS1961/WHAT%2520IF%25202013/IAFLIGHTNING5809_zps148b9733.jpg&key=6a29f4a7cec070acb14acb30602abd85183a4e8dfa87b447760fd3e7626237f9[/url])
What is the intake from ?? Hawker secret project ?
What is the intake from ?? Hawker secret project ?
I don't think so. The Hawker P.1121 intake had more rounded corners.
I think this intake was taken from the Vickers Type 559 (later B6 study) to Operational Requirement F.155T.
-- https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/vickers-type-559-f155t-fighter.2008/ (https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/vickers-type-559-f155t-fighter.2008/)
Any idea of who built this?
Any idea of who built this?
Harold Smith on Twitter - I think he's from the What-If site.
https://mobile.twitter.com/hws5mp/status/980263945641562112
I usually can't save pics from Twit but seems I found a back door :D
Any idea of who built this?
Harold Smith on Twitter - I think he's from the What-If site.
https://mobile.twitter.com/hws5mp/status/980263945641562112
I usually can't save pics from Twit but seems I found a back door :D
The model was done by BTS/What-If member CammNut. Not sure if that's Harold Smith or not.
I known CammNut from the What-If site. Thank you all! :smiley:Any idea of who built this?
Harold Smith on Twitter - I think he's from the What-If site.
https://mobile.twitter.com/hws5mp/status/980263945641562112
I usually can't save pics from Twit but seems I found a back door :D
The model was done by BTS/What-If member CammNut. Not sure if that's Harold Smith or not.
No, Harold Smith is "Weaver" over on WIM.
Cammnut is another entity entirely. ;)
Nice! I'm assuming that the Marine Lightning's underwing ordnance is an AS.34 Kormoran anti-ship missile?
([url]https://combatace.com/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh173/SPINNERS1961/WHAT%2520IF%25202010/RCAFCF-103LIGHTNING01.jpg&key=1640dc21ff476c1df0d4f5243236a8cee011fa7041021f55857aed26ecf139e0[/url])
CFBV