Author Topic: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo  (Read 32279 times)

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« on: January 21, 2012, 06:49:28 AM »
A topic for the discussion of all things related to the F-88 (XF-88), F-101, CF-101, and RF-101 Voodoo. 


(Click on image to view full size from source: Wikipedia > McDonnell F-101 Voodoo)

Some links on the subject:

National Museum of the Air Force - McDonnell F-101 Voodoo > http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/Visit/MuseumExhibits/FactSheets/Display/tabid/509/Article/858859/mcdonnell-f-101a-and-c.aspx

National Museum of the Air Force - McDonnell RF-101 Voodoo > http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/Visit/MuseumExhibits/FactSheets/Display/tabid/509/Article/196065/mcdonnell-rf-101c-voodoo.aspx

National Museum of the Air Force - McDonnell F-101B Voodoo > http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/Visit/MuseumExhibits/FactSheets/Display/tabid/509/Article/196899/mcdonnell-f-101b-voodoo.aspx


Wikipedia - McDonnell XF-88 Voodoo
Wikipedia - McDonnell F-101 Voodoo

***edit to fix cockups created by dead links.  Thanks USAF Museum of the Air Farce! 
« Last Edit: January 14, 2017, 03:17:23 PM by Jeffry Fontaine »
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Offline finsrin

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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2012, 07:04:04 AM »
Years back went to air show where CF-101s put on crowd pleasing afterburning show.
F-101 has great lines/style.
Bill

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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2012, 10:08:33 AM »
I have at least one in the stash which will be getting RAAF markings as a long range fighter.

Another one might be as a RAF fighter in their grey/green scheme.

Regards,

Greg
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Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2012, 10:58:42 AM »
I hope to build a Strike Voodoo one of these days that will use the two seat F-101B.  Small stores pylons on the wings to carry an ECM pod or Sidewinder, center line stores pylon for the special weapon and the two fuel tanks that seem to always be present on this aircraft.  Change the engine exhaust to something resembling the J-79 and blank out the missile bay for the additional electronics and internal fuel.  F-101B + RF-101B for the missile bay blanking plate parts. 
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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2012, 11:12:26 AM »
VG F-101
French F-101
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2012, 02:43:29 PM »
F-101B/F3H-2 hybrid with guns and magazines replacing the missile bay (courtesy of a F-101A conversion for Hase's RF-101C) and the wings a blend of the two.  The horizontal tail will likely also come down to either a cruciform tail or all the way down to the fuselage like the original F-101 mockup had it (lemme see if I can find *that* pic).

Production single-seat F-101 with J79 installation (going by the one aircraft that flew that way, a GE testbed for "high energy fuels" to be used with J93-powered aircraft, you'd need the extended cans of the F-101B and the exhaust nozzles from a F-4 (use the remaining F-4 pieces with appropriate nozzle bits to do a 300-series Avon or ATAR 9K powered export version).

Okay, here's a reduced-size version of "that" photo (original is available via email for a PM).  I've acquired the last two Aeroclub 1/72 F-101A/C conversion sets Hannants had, so I've got 'most everything to start playing with this one.  I'm looking to place the cannons where the missile bay is now.  I suspect one could do much the same with the M61 and port from a F-104.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2012, 12:13:55 PM by elmayerle »

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2012, 07:59:18 PM »
VG F-101
French F-101
F-101B/F3H-2 hybrid with guns and magazines replacing the missile bay (courtesy of a F-101A conversion for Hase's RF-101C) and the wings a blend of the two.  The horizontal tail will likely also come down to either a cruciform tail or all the way down to the fuselage like the original F-101 mockup had it (lemme see if I can find *that* pic).

Production single-seat F-101 with J79 installation (going by the one aircraft that flew that way, a GE testbed for "high energy fuels" to be used with J93-powered aircraft, you'd need the extended cans of the F-101B and the exhaust nozzles from a F-4 (use the remaining F-4 pieces with appropriate nozzle bits to do a 300-series Avon or ATAR 9K powered export version).

Voodoo with a pair of the ATAR 9K engines might be a good way to justify the French F-101 that Greg suggested. 

Would those be the ATAR 9K engines with the original two part (clam shell) exhaust nozzle or the later more conventional interlocking multiple-leaf versions.  The earlier two piece nozzle would certainly make a fashion statement on the Voodoo. 

As far as guns on the F-101B or a derivative I am trying to come up with a good location for the M61 Vulcan 20mm cannon.  Maybe on the side of the fuselage as seen on the F-104 as a compromise to four individual cannons? 
"Every day we hear about new studies 'revealing' what should have been obvious to sentient beings for generations; 'Research shows wolverines don't like to be teased" -- Jonah Goldberg

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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2012, 09:07:13 PM »
VG F-101
French F-101

F-101B/F3H-2 hybrid with guns and magazines replacing the missile bay (courtesy of a F-101A conversion for Hase's RF-101C) and the wings a blend of the two.  The horizontal tail will likely also come down to either a cruciform tail or all the way down to the fuselage like the original F-101 mockup had it (lemme see if I can find *that* pic).

Production single-seat F-101 with J79 installation (going by the one aircraft that flew that way, a GE testbed for "high energy fuels" to be used with J93-powered aircraft, you'd need the extended cans of the F-101B and the exhaust nozzles from a F-4 (use the remaining F-4 pieces with appropriate nozzle bits to do a 300-series Avon or ATAR 9K powered export version).



Voodoo with a pair of the ATAR 9K engines might be a good way to justify the French F-101 that Greg suggested. 

Would those be the ATAR 9K engines with the original two part (clam shell) exhaust nozzle or the later more conventional interlocking multiple-leaf versions.  The earlier two piece nozzle would certainly make a fashion statement on the Voodoo. 

As far as guns on the F-101B or a derivative I am trying to come up with a good location for the M61 Vulcan 20mm cannon.  Maybe on the side of the fuselage as seen on the F-104 as a compromise to four individual cannons?



You're all pulling at my heart strings.  :-*

In a previous life I was a Weapons Technician on Voodoos with 409 SQN  at COMOX. It was quite the thrill as a 19 year old to be "in charge" of 25KT nuclear warhead. I was the "C" man on the load crew which gave me the delightful job of dragging/driving around the 1000 Lb bomb and trailer on which the AIR-2A was transported on. For some strange reason everyone became quite tense when the actual AIR-2As or even the inert training units were brought for load exercises. I guess I was too young to do the math on how big of a hole we could have made if we got the arming sequence correct. (note to self: when in cockpit, do not break the witness wire on the AIR-2A armament switch. An no, they did not show me to how arm it. )  ;) 

Watch out when the weapons bay door was rotated. It was scary fast.

The Voodoo wings are way to thin to really support any substantial load (the RF-101Cs did have ALQ-71 ECM pods in Vietnam).  I don't if anyone was able to observe how much the tail flexed/wobbled when the 101 taxied over the tarmac. Scary stuff. I do miss the asynchronous double boom of the J-57 single stage afterburner. And on landing, the nose high aerodynamic breaking.

One set of interesting visitors we had was the Nevada ANG 192TRS out of Reno. They had RF-4Es at the time but they used our first batch of F-101s which were converted to RF-10Bs. The RF-101Bs did have the weapons bay converted to hold camera gear.

As noted earlier the weapons bay is really the only location where you can work with. It is big enough to hold a good size ammo can for an M-61 or similar cannon. The forward fuselage (from the back of the rear cockpit forward) was just packed solid with electronics as the technology was analog based. If we update to digital avionics, you could free some room. Probably to where the wind screen and canopy meet.  We used to load a home made luggage container for the overnighters. And a spare starter for the J-57s. The farther you were away from base, the greater the probability one would break.

JoseFern did a nice delta wing F-101 here: http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=157.0;topicseen I might try that.

http://www.canadianwings.com/Aircraft/aircraftDetail.php?VOODOO-36
http://www.ejection-history.org.uk/Aircraft_by_Type/CF-101Voodoo/CF101Voodoo.htm
http://www.primeportal.net/hangar/scott_tremblay/cf-101b_voodoo/

Looking forward to more ideas.


« Last Edit: January 22, 2012, 02:42:58 AM by The Big Gimper »
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Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2012, 09:34:57 PM »
Kit bash the wing from the F-4 Phantom II with the Voodoo.  The landing gear arrangement is very similar and with the Phantom wing there would be room for a couple of additional pylons. 

My search for decent dimensional data on the actual Voodoo wing pylon continues.  I have found a couple of images of the pylon installed with countermeasures pod on an RF-101 in SEA but that has been the extent of my success in the usual searches conducted on-line. 
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2012, 01:46:22 AM »
Voodoo with a pair of the ATAR 9K engines might be a good way to justify the French F-101 that Greg suggested. 

Would those be the ATAR 9K engines with the original two part (clam shell) exhaust nozzle or the later more conventional interlocking multiple-leaf versions.  The earlier two piece nozzle would certainly make a fashion statement on the Voodoo. 

As far as guns on the F-101B or a derivative I am trying to come up with a good location for the M61 Vulcan 20mm cannon.  Maybe on the side of the fuselage as seen on the F-104 as a compromise to four individual cannons?


Well, if the early ones use ATAR 9C engines like the Mirage IIIC did, it would be the two-piece nozzle while later production ones might have the later more conventional interlocking multiple-leaf fully-variable version of the ATAR 9K.

As far as guns, I was going to stay with the four 20mm Browning cannon as the M61 was a bit later in development.  Later, or upgraded, aircraft could have that.

Of course, if you want to upgrade the existing F-101B in terms of equipment, you could always replace the AIR-2 with an AIM-68, http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/m-68.html.

Offline Weaver

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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2012, 02:02:58 AM »
A half-formed idea that I'm toying with is What If Fouga, rather than Dassault, became the pre-eminent French aircraft company, and applied a consistent "house style" based on the Magister layout to all their products. Now the style has to adapt to performance issues (glider-like wings don't really play well with Mach 1+ airflows) and one problem is that the side-mounted engines have to change a bit when they get afterburners with jet energies that will accoustically trash the rear fuselage in no time at all. My solution is that they move inwards and downwards, leading to an F-4/F-101 style back end.

That all leads to the conclusion that an F-101B would be the idea basis for Fouga's 1960s heavy interceptor. It's got the right canopy, engine intakes and exhausts, so all it needs is a V-tail and straight wings: I'm thinking along the lines of 1/48th F-104 wings on a 1/72nd Voodoo.

The corresponding light single-seater would be a 1/72nd F-104 with the back end of a 1/100th F-4 grafted on (plus a V-tail, of course).
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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2012, 03:55:31 AM »
F-101 with J79 installation (going by the one aircraft that flew that way,


Seen here:

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Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2013, 04:01:46 AM »
It may take a bit before I can scan them all, returned to work today.

I'm working on a full-up RF-101B with the RF-101C photo nose and an ELINT fit in place of the weapons bay and an antenna fairing under it.  There might be pods under the wings, too.


Nice. I agree the weapons bay has lots of WHIF potential.

Take your time Evan. You probably know the RF-101s were cleared to carry the ALQ-71.



On this F-106 page there is good picture, and someone who claims to be Jeffry Fontaine asking about the installation. Jeff, is this identity theft?  ;D


No.  No ID Hack.  I was exploring the idea of a Strike Voodoo and wanted to see if someone had a decent image or better yet, a drawing of that stores pylon with the pod.  The vacuum formed conversion from Koster kindly provides a shape albeit vacu-formed with the pylon and the ECM pod attached to it.  Since I don't have that conversion in possession any more it required additional networking to find other references.   Not that it really matters for a what if or speculative model of something that did not exist in real life I did want to try and stay within the bounds of what could safely be carried on the wing of the Voodoo with that one small stores pylon.  Maybe that stores pylon and a Sidewinder on each wing tip?  That would look menacing.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2013, 04:12:41 AM by Jeffry Fontaine »
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Offline Daryl J.

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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2013, 05:52:20 AM »
The Lindberg XF-88 kit in Ye Olde Stash has been set aside for conversion into a McDonnell and Hawker developed interceptor for the British.    So far white and lo-viz  seems to be what interests me most.
kwyxdxLg5T

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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2013, 09:57:48 AM »
The Lindberg XF-88 kit in Ye Olde Stash has been set aside for conversion into a McDonnell and Hawker developed interceptor for the British.    So far white and lo-viz  seems to be what interests me most.

Interesting.
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Offline Daryl J.

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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2013, 11:02:18 AM »
Put the XF-88 into production as the RF-88.
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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2013, 11:40:59 AM »
Put the XF-88 into production as the RF-88.

They did, didn't they?  ;)

Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2013, 06:30:00 PM »
From Secret Projects:

The official McDonnell Model Numbers index of July 1974 states that the Model 96 applied to a "large external weapon (for use with the F-101A) under job order #19-89, dated July 10, 1953. So this is perfectly consistent with the great document you have provided here, bigron427.

Three more studies were conducted under the same job order:

- Model 96A (test weapon "A" configuration with B-47, additionally described as a "Special Weapon" in a handmade footnote).
- Model 96B  (test weapon "B" configuration with F-101A).
- Model 96C (test weapon "C" configuration with F-101A).

Then there was a revised job order (#19-89-051) for three more variants:

- Model 96E (large external weapon essentially same shape as Model 96; different warhead - February 9, 1954).
- Model 96F (large external weapon shorter shape than Model 96; warhead same as Model 96E - February 9, 1954).
- Model 96G (large external weapon - identical to Model 96 with structural provisions for either of two warheads - December 16, 1954).



Source: F-101Voodoo.com

Bill (finsrin) and I had an offline discussion on which existing things bomb/tank could be used to represent the Model 96 Pod. Sorry Bill but I'm stilling favoring my Revell 1/94 B-58 "MC-1 pod".  ;)

Source: Wikipedia: Model 96 Store
« Last Edit: December 22, 2013, 06:40:21 PM by The Big Gimper »
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Offline finsrin

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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #18 on: December 22, 2013, 07:11:54 PM »
Tell you what Carl.  You looked into this way more than me.
Figuring your call is better than mine.
First time to see that F-101 picture - impressive !

Offline uncle les

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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #19 on: December 22, 2013, 08:12:00 PM »
Put the XF-88 into production as the RF-88.


They did, didn't they?  ;)


Well, there was that NF-88 we didn't hear much about at the time....   ::)

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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #20 on: December 23, 2013, 02:56:29 AM »
That looks good.
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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #21 on: December 23, 2013, 02:58:29 AM »
I would like to do an operational XF-88B:

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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #22 on: December 23, 2013, 03:07:59 AM »
Which raises a question I've asked elsewhere....

Did they EVER run the turbo-prop on that? I have yet to see a photo with the blades turning.
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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #23 on: December 23, 2013, 03:21:12 AM »
I think this video will conclusively answer that question ;):

The XF-88B Propeller Flight Research Program
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Offline Daryl J.

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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #24 on: December 23, 2013, 03:25:07 AM »
By 'special weapon' do I correctly presume a nuke?
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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #25 on: December 23, 2013, 03:58:27 AM »
I think this video will conclusively answer that question ;):

VEEEERY Interesting! Thanks a lot, I've never seen that before.

Goodness knows what they were doing with that tiny prop with the bug bulbous spinner at around 1:25 in the vid, and at the end it's got a 3 bladed prop fitted as well.
Regards
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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #26 on: December 23, 2013, 04:03:13 AM »
I would like to do an operational XF-88B:




I've got a kit of that  (1/72 of course) can't remember who produces it though  --   :-X

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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #27 on: December 23, 2013, 04:17:38 AM »
Google to rescue: Maintrack

UAMF.org.uk
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Offline Daryl J.

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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #28 on: December 23, 2013, 04:46:06 AM »
Do the F-101 series have underwing hard points?    Looking at that Model 96 shape makes me want to put some matching underwing fuel tanks on it.   
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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #29 on: December 23, 2013, 04:50:46 AM »
I don't think so…mind you, in the whiff verse anything is possible. ;)
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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #30 on: December 23, 2013, 04:52:41 AM »
Random Idea:  JASDF F-101B in scheme similar to this:

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Offline elmayerle

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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #31 on: December 23, 2013, 08:12:03 AM »
A half-formed idea that I'm toying with is What If Fouga, rather than Dassault, became the pre-eminent French aircraft company, and applied a consistent "house style" based on the Magister layout to all their products. Now the style has to adapt to performance issues (glider-like wings don't really play well with Mach 1+ airflows) and one problem is that the side-mounted engines have to change a bit when they get afterburners with jet energies that will accoustically trash the rear fuselage in no time at all. My solution is that they move inwards and downwards, leading to an F-4/F-101 style back end.

That all leads to the conclusion that an F-101B would be the idea basis for Fouga's 1960s heavy interceptor. It's got the right canopy, engine intakes and exhausts, so all it needs is a V-tail and straight wings: I'm thinking along the lines of 1/48th F-104 wings on a 1/72nd Voodoo.

The corresponding light single-seater would be a 1/72nd F-104 with the back end of a 1/100th F-4 grafted on (plus a V-tail, of course).

I was looking thorugh the Opsrey Air Combat book on the Voodoo at my locl Half-Price Books and saw a picture of a V-tailed design study.  Leave teh wings swept and add the swept V-tail and you'd have an attractively different look.

Offline ChernayaAkula

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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #32 on: December 23, 2013, 09:55:22 AM »
Random Idea:  JASDF F-101B in scheme similar to this:
<...>

Awww, great!  :icon_nif: Just when I've sold almost all of my F-101B kits.  :icon_twisted:
Cheers,
Moritz

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Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #33 on: December 23, 2013, 02:04:01 PM »
From Secret Projects:



Does this have longer wing than standard voodoo? Am I wrong?

Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #34 on: December 23, 2013, 08:24:50 PM »
From Secret Projects:



Does this have longer wing than standard voodoo? Am I wrong?


I do not think so. I am comparing the wings tips to fuselage and to the wing trailing edge as it meets the fuselage.



Source
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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #35 on: December 23, 2013, 10:09:55 PM »
Google to rescue: Maintrack

UAMF.org.uk


I thought it was that but then I had a thought it was resin ---

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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #36 on: May 04, 2014, 06:12:25 AM »
How about modifying the Voodoo with Fieri type air inlets in the shape seen on the Republic F-105 Thunderchief? 
"Every day we hear about new studies 'revealing' what should have been obvious to sentient beings for generations; 'Research shows wolverines don't like to be teased" -- Jonah Goldberg

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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #37 on: May 04, 2014, 06:14:49 AM »
How about modifying the Voodoo with Fieri type air inlets in the shape seen on the Republic F-105 Thunderchief?

I like your thinking!
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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #38 on: May 04, 2014, 07:08:23 AM »
How about modifying the Voodoo with Fieri type air inlets in the shape seen on the Republic F-105 Thunderchief?
I like your thinking!
Surprised no one had thought of that sooner to be honest.  I only got the idea because I was reading a discussion topic on the different Voodoo intakes over on ARC.  :)
« Last Edit: May 04, 2014, 07:11:03 AM by Jeffry Fontaine »
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Offline Daryl J.

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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #39 on: September 29, 2014, 10:30:45 AM »
ASAT launch vehicle?

With the KH RF-101C nearly upon us, perhaps one in Dutch, Belgian, or even Leichtensteinian markings could be interesting.
kwyxdxLg5T

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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #40 on: September 29, 2014, 11:12:10 AM »
How about modifying the Voodoo with Fieri type air inlets in the shape seen on the Republic F-105 Thunderchief?
I like your thinking!
Surprised no one had thought of that sooner to be honest.  I only got the idea because I was reading a discussion topic on the different Voodoo intakes over on ARC.  :)

Yes - you guys are on to a nice mod......

Offline kengeorge

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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #41 on: September 30, 2014, 06:54:59 AM »
Just throwing this out, could the F-101 be modified for carrier use? According to Wiki the F-101 is 4ft 5in longer, 6-8in longer span & 18in taller, than the F-4.
Max T/O weight is 9395lb lighter than an F-4. So physically it could have a deck footprint similar to an F-4.
I'm only using The F-4 as a comparison as it they were in service at the same time, more or less.

So, what modifications would be needed to make it carrier capable?

Ken...

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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #42 on: September 30, 2014, 10:06:51 AM »
Assuming the aerodynamics of a T-tail don't make the approach squirrelly, I'd reckon you'd need catapult bridle fittings, an arresting hook, and stouter landing gear to handle the high sink rates carrier aircraft use.  I think I'd also go with a larger wing to reduce approach speed (thinking that an adapted Demon wing would work nicely).

Offline Daryl J.

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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #43 on: September 30, 2014, 11:11:54 PM »
Give the XF-88 design to the Brits to flesh out the development of.   
Some would be based in Europe.
Some would be based in Africa.
Some would be laden.  Some would not.
Thus it would need to be named the Swallow.

OK....there's your bad joke of the day.   
kwyxdxLg5T

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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #44 on: October 01, 2014, 08:55:51 AM »
Assuming the aerodynamics of a T-tail don't make the approach squirrelly, I'd reckon you'd need catapult bridle fittings, an arresting hook, and stouter landing gear to handle the high sink rates carrier aircraft use.  I think I'd also go with a larger wing to reduce approach speed (thinking that an adapted Demon wing would work nicely).

Is "squirrelly" a technical term?

Offline elmayerle

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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #45 on: October 01, 2014, 09:09:52 AM »
The technical term is seriously deficient in handling qualities for carrier approaches; but most just use "squirrelly". :D

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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #46 on: October 01, 2014, 09:36:16 AM »
Assuming the aerodynamics of a T-tail don't make the approach squirrelly, I'd reckon you'd need catapult bridle fittings, an arresting hook, and stouter landing gear to handle the high sink rates carrier aircraft use.  I think I'd also go with a larger wing to reduce approach speed (thinking that an adapted Demon wing would work nicely).
Along with the heavy duty main gear a stronger wing spar might be needed to attach them to. By the time all the mods are included you pretty much end up designing a new aircraft. Adapting a carrier aircraft to land use is easy, the other way around is really difficult. The F-4, A-7 and Buccaneer were successful, I don't recall off the top of my head a land based aircraft adapted to carrier use that was really successful.

However, in whiff world, anything is possible!

Offline Rickshaw

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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #47 on: October 01, 2014, 08:56:45 PM »
Supermarine Seafire
Hawker Sea Fury
FJ-1 Fury

All land based planes which were successfully adapted to naval use.

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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #48 on: October 02, 2014, 01:41:49 AM »
Supermarine Seafire
Hawker Sea Fury
FJ-1 Fury

All land based planes which were successfully adapted to naval use.

The FJ-1 was a naval aircraft from the start, it was not an adaptation of the P-86,
rather the two were developed in parallel.

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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #49 on: October 02, 2014, 08:17:11 AM »
Sorry, I meant the FJ-2/3 Fury, which was developed from the F-86.

A claim could be made that the FJ-1 was developed from the Mustang...  ;)

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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #50 on: October 02, 2014, 10:38:21 PM »

A claim could be made that the FJ-1 was developed from the Mustang...  ;)

Well Brian, in as much as the prototype Supermarine Attacker was initially called the Jet Spiteful, the Fury FJ-1 is really a Jet Mustang, it just got a new fuselage ---

Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #51 on: May 09, 2016, 09:46:48 AM »
This photo was just posted to Facebook. 416 SQN A/C.



My babies. It brings tears to my eyes.  :icon_sueno:
« Last Edit: January 14, 2017, 10:36:05 AM by The Big Gimper »
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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #52 on: May 09, 2016, 09:56:13 AM »
Here is another. The A/C is carrying a WSEM (AIM-4D simulator) and it is extended out into the air stream.

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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #53 on: May 09, 2016, 05:04:06 PM »
Nice
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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #54 on: January 14, 2017, 10:37:44 AM »


Source: Stolen from Facebook
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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #55 on: January 14, 2017, 02:01:38 PM »
 :)
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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Offline kengeorge

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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #56 on: January 15, 2017, 06:38:19 AM »
That looks good

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #57 on: February 07, 2020, 06:26:28 AM »
YouTube video on the F-101 Voodoo with some interesting [for me at least] details.  One in particular is the stores station directly under the air intake on the prototype F-101.  Never saw that before now and it certainly makes you wonder if in additional to the fuel tank-pylon what other things could be mounted in this location. 

Link: https://youtu.be/2BbIHbYiE-w
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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #58 on: February 07, 2020, 02:42:59 PM »
Is it something different from this arrangement?
“Conspiracy theory’s got to be simple.
Sense doesn’t come into it. People are
more scared of how complicated shit
actually is than they ever are about
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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #59 on: February 07, 2020, 08:05:56 PM »
Is that a Mark 7 Nuke shape between the drop tanks?
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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #60 on: February 08, 2020, 01:43:14 AM »
Is it something different from this arrangement?

Yes, very different location.  I am quite familiar with the usual stores stations locations and what was shown in the video clip was definitely not what you show in your attached image.  The store that was affixed to the underside of the air intake had a strong resemblance to an integrated fuel tank/stores pylon for lack of a better description and it was unique enough to catch my attention.  Otherwise I would not have bothered to mention it, let along share the video link.
"Every day we hear about new studies 'revealing' what should have been obvious to sentient beings for generations; 'Research shows wolverines don't like to be teased" -- Jonah Goldberg

Offline kitnut617

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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #61 on: February 08, 2020, 02:03:41 AM »
Is it something different from this arrangement?

Yes, very different location.  I am quite familiar with the usual stores stations locations and what was shown in the video clip was definitely not what you show in your attached image.  The store that was affixed to the underside of the air intake had a strong resemblance to an integrated fuel tank/stores pylon for lack of a better description and it was unique enough to catch my attention.  Otherwise I would not have bothered to mention it, let along share the video link.

Have a look at 4.05, it looks like an early style of drop tank.

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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #62 on: February 08, 2020, 05:13:00 AM »
Flight testing of the first aircraft, F-101A 53-2418, there was no prototype as such,
revealed irregular flow issues in the air intakes and compressor stall. Internal intake
layout and compressor modifications cured the problems, but I have to wonder if
having that pylon and tank mounted there might not be the best idea. Also it may
be that the redesign on the intake internal layout led to the mounting structure going
away.
“Conspiracy theory’s got to be simple.
Sense doesn’t come into it. People are
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actually is than they ever are about
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Offline M.A.D

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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #63 on: July 21, 2021, 08:17:51 AM »
I just stumbled across this picture of a F-101 Voodoo equipped with what looks like additional optical sensors and armed with a MIM-23 HAWK SAM🤔😯
One assumes it's a trial configuration for the HAWK's performance....
Would be interesting to know the timeframe, as the Iranian Air Force would later go on to operationally arm it's F-4 Phantom's and F-14 Tomcat's with a modified HAWK missile.

MAD
« Last Edit: July 21, 2021, 08:33:50 AM by M.A.D »

Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #64 on: July 21, 2021, 07:01:00 PM »
^ Interesting. Opens up possibilities....

I've long planned on doing a Patricia Lynn RF-101B.

Offline kitnut617

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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #65 on: July 21, 2021, 10:08:04 PM »
Yeah -- very interesting.

So jumping forward a few decades, this could have been quite possible --    ;)

Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #66 on: July 21, 2021, 11:43:29 PM »
I just stumbled across this picture of a F-101 Voodoo equipped with what looks like additional optical sensors and armed with a MIM-23 HAWK SAM🤔😯
One assumes it's a trial configuration for the HAWK's performance....
Would be interesting to know the timeframe, as the Iranian Air Force would later go on to operationally arm it's F-4 Phantom's and F-14 Tomcat's with a modified HAWK missile.

MAD

Here are some comments from FB users on this photo. Also more photos.

[1] I’m still trying to figure out what kind of testing they were doing with the Hawk. The MIM-23 used a continuous-wave target illuminator, but the MG-13 was a pulse radar. I’ve never seen a satisfactory explanation for the undernose pod on this bird and wonder if it houses a CW illuminator. I suppose if you want to kill a Bear really dead, that would be a good way to do it!

[2] According to the "Replica in Scale" webpage this F-101B-85-MC Voodoo 57-0282 was involved in a Mod Program called ATAR (ACQUISITION TRACKING AND RECOGNITION) at the time (1974) this picture was taken at Tyndall. Also, according to the article the mod under the nose is suppose to be a TISEO (TARGET IDENTIFICATION SET ELECTRO-OPTICAL) and the interior of the gear doors are red. I doubt that the bottom mod is a TISEO since it usually used a flat piece of glass as used on the F-4 and F-14. Here's a picture of an F-14 which has a TISEO mounted to the right of the sensor in question as it looks just like the one on the F-101B. Regarding the F-14, another article refers to this as an IRST (INFRARED SEARCH & TRACK & TARGETING) sensor. It appears that this is a Northrop/Grumman product.

[3] Agreed. The undernose sensor has some sort of dielectric material which means either radar or possibly infrared, not optical. Eyeballing it, it looks like that radome is 15 inches in diameter (the IRST ball mounted up top is 7 inches). I still think it is a CW illuminator, but until some sort of hard evidence comes up that’s still just speculation. But with a HAWK on the belly, nothing else makes sense. I don’t know what to make if it, but adding something about this to my updated manuscript if there is ever a second edition of my book.





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Offline M.A.D

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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #67 on: July 22, 2021, 06:11:38 AM »
Nice work with both additional info and pictures  The Big Gimper

MAD

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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #68 on: July 22, 2021, 08:03:26 PM »
A thread about this has appeared on SPF yesterday too, with a bunch of images which are the same but there is some others. For instance, the under nose scanner dome in some photos is shown as flat white instead of black.

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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #69 on: March 25, 2023, 03:44:31 AM »
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #70 on: March 25, 2023, 03:47:22 AM »
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline M.A.D

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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #71 on: March 26, 2023, 09:09:40 AM »


That's an interesting stores arrangement GTX
That would seemingly make the F-101 more versatile.

Surley, at minimum, McDonnell/McDD could have incorporated - at minimum, a hardpoint under each wing for the employment of one Aim-9 Sidewinder, for self protection 🤔

MAD

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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #72 on: March 26, 2023, 11:42:04 AM »
<SNIP>
Surley, at minimum, McDonnell/McDD could have incorporated - at minimum, a hardpoint under each wing for the employment of one Aim-9 Sidewinder, for self protection

MAD

There were two stores stations available on some versions of the F-101/RF-101 for a pair of ECM pods (one under each wing).  The only kit that had these stores pylons was a very ancient 1/48th scale vacu-form conversion kit for the Monogram F-101B and RF-101B kits to convert it to the F-101A/C and RF-101A/C.  It was a very small rectangular shape pylon that resembled the outboard stores pylon from the MDD A-4 Skyhawk that was mounted on and later production variants from the A-4E/F and later. 
"Every day we hear about new studies 'revealing' what should have been obvious to sentient beings for generations; 'Research shows wolverines don't like to be teased" -- Jonah Goldberg

Offline jcf

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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #73 on: March 30, 2023, 10:45:00 AM »
F-101B for RAAF, and others, notion.

The single-seat F-101A first flight was in 1954, with service entry in 1957, the F-101B first
flight was in 1957 and it entered service in 1959.

"Development of an all-weather interceptor version of the Voodoo was first considered as early
as the fall of 1952, but was rejected at that time as being too costly."

"However, late in 1953 delays in the F-102B program caused the Air Force to reconsider its
procurement policy for all-weather interceptors."

"Before being awarded a contract, McDonnell had been looking into both single and two-seat
configurations for their interceptor and had explored several alternative power plant installations
including General Electric J79s, Pratt & Whitney J57s or J75s, or Wright J67s. In November 1954,
a two-seat configuration was finally adopted, and it was decided that the power plants would be
a pair of Wright J67s. The Wright J67 was a license-built version of the British Bristol Olympus
turbojet which offered a maximum afterburning thrust of 22,000 lbs."

"The initial go-ahead decision for the interceptor Voodoo was made on February 25, 1955. It was
anticipated that the first flight would take place in mid-1956 and that the initial entry into service
would be in early 1958."

" ... the Wright J67 engine soon began to encounter serious developmental difficulties, resulting in a
delay in the F-101B program. Both McDonnell and the Air Force agreed to switch to a pair of Pratt &
Whitney J57-P-55 turbojets fitted with afterburners ... longer afterburners raised maximum thrust
rating from 15,000 pounds to 16,900 pounds."

So, What-If the decision to develop a two-seat F-101 was taken in late '52 - early '53 and the J67
development came off without a hitch? The use of the Olympus leading to a proposal to use it as
the basis of a NATO and SEATO common long-range interceptor with or w/out SAGE equipment
depending on customer and region-meaning that the USAF and RCAF would be the only services
having the requirement. In the case of the latter service the US DOD and McDonnell sweetening
the pot by bringing in Avro Canada with a manufacturing deal similar to Canadair's Sabre deal
with North American. CAC in Australia later being brought in for the assembly of McDonnell kits,
which then transitioned into the licensed manufacture of some assemblies and the service support
contracts. The CAC assembled aircraft were originally only for the RAAF, but later they received
a contract to supply aircraft for the Philippine Air Force and Taiwan. 

 :icon_fsm:
“Conspiracy theory’s got to be simple.
Sense doesn’t come into it. People are
more scared of how complicated shit
actually is than they ever are about
whatever’s supposed to be behind the
conspiracy.”
-The Peripheral, William Gibson 2014

Offline finsrin

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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #74 on: March 30, 2023, 11:20:40 AM »
Couple Lindberg 1/48 XF-88 are in stash.   Be B-45 length as 1/72.   Has kit-bash bomber potential.

Offline apophenia

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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #75 on: March 31, 2023, 03:37:42 AM »
...

So, What-If the decision to develop a two-seat F-101 was taken in late '52 - early '53 and the J67
development came off without a hitch? The use of the Olympus leading to a proposal to use it as
the basis of a NATO and SEATO common long-range interceptor with or w/out SAGE equipment
depending on customer and region-meaning that the USAF and RCAF would be the only services
having the requirement. In the case of the latter service the US DOD and McDonnell sweetening
the pot by bringing in Avro Canada with a manufacturing deal similar to Canadair's Sabre deal
with North American. CAC in Australia later being brought in for the assembly of McDonnell kits,
which then transitioned into the licensed manufacture of some assemblies and the service support
contracts. The CAC assembled aircraft were originally only for the RAAF, but later they received
a contract to supply aircraft for the Philippine Air Force and Taiwan.  ..

Nice! Love the CAC and Avro Canada tie-ins  :smiley:
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Offline jcf

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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #76 on: March 31, 2023, 04:59:49 AM »
...

So, What-If the decision to develop a two-seat F-101 was taken in late '52 - early '53 and the J67
development came off without a hitch? The use of the Olympus leading to a proposal to use it as
the basis of a NATO and SEATO common long-range interceptor with or w/out SAGE equipment
depending on customer and region-meaning that the USAF and RCAF would be the only services
having the requirement. In the case of the latter service the US DOD and McDonnell sweetening
the pot by bringing in Avro Canada with a manufacturing deal similar to Canadair's Sabre deal
with North American. CAC in Australia later being brought in for the assembly of McDonnell kits,
which then transitioned into the licensed manufacture of some assemblies and the service support
contracts. The CAC assembled aircraft were originally only for the RAAF, but later they received
a contract to supply aircraft for the Philippine Air Force and Taiwan.  ..

Nice! Love the CAC and Avro Canada tie-ins  :smiley:

Feel free to explore it if you wish.  :icon_fsm:
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conspiracy.”
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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #77 on: April 01, 2023, 01:02:26 AM »
CAC in Australia later being brought in for the assembly of McDonnell kits,
which then transitioned into the licensed manufacture of some assemblies and the service support
contracts. The CAC assembled aircraft were originally only for the RAAF, but later they received
a contract to supply aircraft for the Philippine Air Force and Taiwan. 

Hmmm...I'm liking your thinking.  Given the F-101 had the long range it might very well have found favour.  If one could find a way to deal with timings, in RAAF service it could very well have supplemented and then replaced the CAC Sabre and even the EE Canberra and adopting the roles of long range fighter/interceptor, recon and even strike aircraft with both B and C and even RF variants.  An engine change as suggested, especially if it followed later real world developments of the Olympus (though possibly brought forward), is also interesting.  Could make an interesting alternative to the F-4 for many
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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #78 on: April 01, 2023, 01:05:17 AM »


CFBV
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Re: McDonnell F-88 and F-101 Voodoo
« Reply #79 on: April 01, 2023, 11:39:42 PM »
EF-101B/D. A what-if Wild Weasel. Put it in the TO-114 three colour Vietnam finish

Note the first WW F-4s were designated EF-4Cs: "The F-4C Wild Weasel IV also bore the unofficial designation of EF-4C"
« Last Edit: April 02, 2023, 12:02:12 AM by The Big Gimper »
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