Author Topic: Kreigsmarine Carrier Aircraft Possibilities  (Read 34195 times)

Offline jcf

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Re: Kreigsmarine Carrier Aircraft Possibilities
« Reply #50 on: October 05, 2013, 02:36:38 AM »
 ... or an IJN carrier is visiting Kiel in the summer of 1939 and ends up stuck there when the
war begins.

The what, the how and the why I leave to others.  ;D  :icon_fsm:
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Sense doesn’t come into it. People are
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Kreigsmarine Carrier Aircraft Possibilities
« Reply #51 on: October 05, 2013, 02:42:07 AM »
... or an IJN carrier is visiting Kiel in the summer of 1939 and ends up stuck there when the
war begins.

The what, the how and the why I leave to others.  ;D  :icon_fsm:

You're Evil!!!  Now I have a "Tale of two Carriers" to deal with!!! :icon_crap:
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Kreigsmarine Carrier Aircraft Possibilities
« Reply #52 on: October 05, 2013, 03:06:06 AM »
The slipper tanks were not used operationally from all accounts though they were trialled on either an A-7 or A-8 (I have seen both referenced).  They supposedly held 270L.  Most importantly though, you can get them as either upgrade conversions or as part of a full kit. ;)


For the builders, you can get the tanks in 1/72 at Lonewulf LW014.



Would the FW-190 use a stinger type arrestor hook or an A-frame?


and if you are lazy and simply want the whole kit:

1/72:



1/48:

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Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: Kreigsmarine Carrier Aircraft Possibilities
« Reply #53 on: October 05, 2013, 03:21:42 AM »
I did that too.  :o
Work in progress ::

I am giving up listing them. They all end up on the shelf of procrastination anyways.

User and abuser of Bothans...

Offline Logan Hartke

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Re: Kreigsmarine Carrier Aircraft Possibilities
« Reply #54 on: October 05, 2013, 03:26:26 AM »
I'm actually thinking the Graf Zeppelin remains in Kreigsmarine control with German crew.  It would just be operating alongside the IJN and possibly start operating Japanese designs out of necessity since they would be easier to support locally.


That's fine, but it'd have to get out of Dodge before 1941.  Look what happened to the Bismarck in May of 1941, and that was just going for a jaunt in the North Atlantic.  Now instead you've got a more important ship trying to sail a whole lot further through even more foreign waters.  Again, I'm not saying it couldn't be done, the German commerce raiders did it, but they had the advantage of disguise and many of them made their initial escapes in 1939 and '40, their departures growing more perilous as the war drew on.

I don't think that they'd actually have Japanese crews, mind you, at least for the delivery voyage.  Officially, the Germans would likely officially discharge the crews from the Kreigsmarine, so that they could say it sailed with a civilian crew.  I think the Germans could say they've sold it to the Japanese, paint a Japanese name on the ship, Japanese flags on the flight deck, and fly some Japanese flags from the mast, and they might get away with it if the Japanese used extreme diplomatic pressure.  Once it arrived in the Pacific, I imagine that it'd operate with a composite crew, likely with a Japanese air group, complete with Japanese aircraft and flight crew.  It wouldn't serve the Germans very much to actually sacrifice the aircraft and aircrew when they could use them back in Europe.

Interestingly, this "tale of two carriers" actually did happen, albeit on a miniature scale.  The Germans operated a Japanese float plane with a German flight crew from the auxiliary cruiser Orion to supplement their one remaining Arado Ar 196 until they received a replacement.  Like the cruiser it operated from, it operated in disguise, in this case as a British floatplane.





Likewise, the Japanese operated an Arado Ar 196 in the Pacific, too.  The Germans may also have even operated the Aichi E13A.
http://www.j-aircraft.com/research/stories/yasunaga1.html





Cheers,

Logan

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Re: Kreigsmarine Carrier Aircraft Possibilities
« Reply #55 on: October 05, 2013, 03:29:31 AM »
That's fine, but it'd have to get out of Dodge before 1941.  Look what happened to the Bismarck in May of 1941, and that was just going for a jaunt in the North Atlantic.  Now instead you've got a more important ship trying to sail a whole lot further through even more foreign waters. 


I have a cunning plan... ;)
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Offline Logan Hartke

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Re: Kreigsmarine Carrier Aircraft Possibilities
« Reply #56 on: October 05, 2013, 03:30:50 AM »
How many times have I told you, Greg?  The tunnel just isn't going to work.

Cheers,

Logan

Offline Cliffy B

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Re: Kreigsmarine Carrier Aircraft Possibilities
« Reply #57 on: October 05, 2013, 03:33:10 AM »
Wonderful ideas guys!!!  I had a story idea where GZ goes raiding and gets stuck in the Indian Ocean with the IJN and winds up using Zeroes and other IJN planes as her own get used up. 

I'm REALLY liking that idea of the IJN CV getting trapped in Kiel!!!  I might have to incorporate that into my own story if that's OK with you jcf?  That could lead to German planes in IJN markings or even some sort of brand new hybrid IJN/German designs to replace the original aircraft.  Hmmm....   Too bad the Germans (enough of them in the right places anyway...) had to be dicks with their "racial purity" crap back then.  I'll have to change that....

I like the idea of an IJN CVL (and a small group of escorts) getting trapped during a training visit to help get the Kriegsmarine indoctrinated into CV ops and the like.  Hmmm....

So can I use the idea jcf???

Greg - That book you posted by John Baxter; were those real aircraft designs or what?  I'm not finding anything on them and they look REALLY interesting.  Any info?  the BV-237 would have been "interesting" performing CV ops to say the least.  That Fw-247T has me very intrigued though and I can't find anything on it  ???
« Last Edit: October 05, 2013, 03:35:47 AM by Cliffy B »
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Re: Kreigsmarine Carrier Aircraft Possibilities
« Reply #58 on: October 05, 2013, 03:33:28 AM »


 ;)
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Offline Logan Hartke

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Re: Kreigsmarine Carrier Aircraft Possibilities
« Reply #59 on: October 05, 2013, 03:38:34 AM »
Doesn't that have...complications?



Cheers,

Logan

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Re: Kreigsmarine Carrier Aircraft Possibilities
« Reply #60 on: October 05, 2013, 03:44:19 AM »
Greg - That book you posted by John Baxter; were those real aircraft designs or what?  I'm not finding anything on them and they look REALLY interesting.  Any info?


John's designs are either real or based upon real.  Many of the later ones are simply Luft'46 types but some such as the Fw247 are more developed.  In this case, the Fw247 is a Germanised version of the B7A:



I recommend all of his books:

« Last Edit: October 05, 2013, 03:46:31 AM by GTX_Admin »
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Kreigsmarine Carrier Aircraft Possibilities
« Reply #61 on: October 05, 2013, 03:49:27 AM »
Doesn't that have...complications?



Ve have vays....!!!

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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Kreigsmarine Carrier Aircraft Possibilities
« Reply #62 on: October 05, 2013, 03:51:03 AM »
This thread needs a Luftwaffe Zero....



Thanks to our very own hushkit .
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Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: Kreigsmarine Carrier Aircraft Possibilities
« Reply #63 on: October 05, 2013, 03:55:58 AM »
The slipper tanks were not used operationally from all accounts though they were trialled on either an A-7 or A-8 (I have seen both referenced).  They supposedly held 270L.  Most importantly though, you can get them as either upgrade conversions or as part of a full kit. ;)


Aftermarket in resin: Fw 190 A-7 Slipper Tanks (Airmodel Products - Nr. AZ-72014)

"Every day we hear about new studies 'revealing' what should have been obvious to sentient beings for generations; 'Research shows wolverines don't like to be teased" -- Jonah Goldberg

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Kreigsmarine Carrier Aircraft Possibilities
« Reply #64 on: October 05, 2013, 04:43:56 AM »
Of course, for much later:


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Offline Logan Hartke

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Re: Kreigsmarine Carrier Aircraft Possibilities
« Reply #65 on: October 05, 2013, 05:34:03 AM »
I love Gekko's camo for these.  That 262 is especially pretty.

Cheers,

Logan

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Kreigsmarine Carrier Aircraft Possibilities
« Reply #66 on: October 05, 2013, 06:37:45 AM »
Greg - That book you posted by John Baxter; were those real aircraft designs or what?  I'm not finding anything on them and they look REALLY interesting.  Any info?


John's designs are either real or based upon real.  Many of the later ones are simply Luft'46 types but some such as the Fw247 are more developed.  In this case, the Fw247 is a Germanised version of the B7A:



I recommend all of his books:




What where how who? I want need crave desire must have that Alternate RAAF, RAN FAA book - WHERE CAN I GET ONE?

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Kreigsmarine Carrier Aircraft Possibilities
« Reply #67 on: October 05, 2013, 06:42:22 AM »
Well, if you were here you could borrow mine... ;)

You should be able to find it online somewhere.  Failing that, let me know and I will try to dig up John's email address for you to contact him directly.
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Offline Cliffy B

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Re: Kreigsmarine Carrier Aircraft Possibilities
« Reply #68 on: October 05, 2013, 07:24:55 AM »
Funny you should say that its a German Grace....
http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/tam/tam31516.htm
12 Zekes
8 Judys
8 Jills
2 Graces
2 Myrts


I'll be getting a few of those soon as well as possibly an IJN ship or two  ;)

I'm looking now for Baxter's books as well.  Amazon has them listed but all say "currently unavailable" even for used copies... 

Edit: I found one or two on random used book sites; $100+ is far out of the question.  Friggin greedy book sellers...  "It's 'rare' lets jack the price through the roof 500%!"  @#!%@#^T#%!@#%
« Last Edit: October 05, 2013, 07:27:57 AM by Cliffy B »
"Radials growl, inlines purr, jets blow!"  -Anonymous

"Helos don't fly.  They vibrate so violently that the ground rejects them."  -Tom Clancy

"If all else fails, call in an air strike."  -Anonymous

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Kreigsmarine Carrier Aircraft Possibilities
« Reply #69 on: October 05, 2013, 12:28:54 PM »
I am wondering if Bismarks first (and last) sortie had been delayed until both Tirpitz and Graf Zepplin were ready?  Imagine a task group of two BBs two BCs a CV and a couple of CAs sortied into the North Atlantic 1941, staying out of reach of the RAF, using their fighters against the RN FAA aircraft and their dive bombers against shadowing RN cruisers.  Maybe stationing wolf packs in strategic sectors to further hamstring pursuit.  What could the UK have done?

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Kreigsmarine Carrier Aircraft Possibilities
« Reply #70 on: October 06, 2013, 03:03:03 AM »
PM sent re John Baxter books.
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Re: Kreigsmarine Carrier Aircraft Possibilities
« Reply #71 on: October 06, 2013, 03:58:23 AM »
Going back to the Fw190s, you can easily get kits:




or simply conversions:

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Offline Volkodav

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Re: Kreigsmarine Carrier Aircraft Possibilities
« Reply #72 on: October 06, 2013, 07:03:35 AM »

Offline jcf

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Re: Kreigsmarine Carrier Aircraft Possibilities
« Reply #73 on: October 06, 2013, 09:41:50 AM »
Hyland's Bookshop, in Oz but I've purchased from them in the past with no issue,
seem to have them, and reasonably priced:
 http://used.addall.com/SuperRare/RefineRare.fcgi?id=131005183150685449

used.addall.com is my first stop when book hunting, as to prices, be aware that if the
bookseller goes through the Amazon system they may be using auto-pricing algorithms,
which can produce some insane results, and if the sellers select the watch function and
auto price increase the results are beyond insane. A goes up so B goes up that more
so A goes up so B goes up ... on and on ... ... ...
 :-X
Like many things it's more laziness than greed.

As to that Ta 183, snork, the friggin' thing wouldn't have worked on land in that form
let alone on board a ship.
 ;D  ;D

“Conspiracy theory’s got to be simple.
Sense doesn’t come into it. People are
more scared of how complicated shit
actually is than they ever are about
whatever’s supposed to be behind the
conspiracy.”
-The Peripheral, William Gibson 2014