Beyond The Sprues

Modelling => Ideas & Inspiration => Aero-space => Topic started by: simmie on December 22, 2011, 07:49:46 PM

Title: Zero developments
Post by: simmie on December 22, 2011, 07:49:46 PM: OK, I had a thought this morning, that should be discussed. (that sounds more pretentious than it was ment to, sorry!)

What If the Mitsubishi Zero fighter had under gone the same, or similar, development as the Supermarine Spitfire or even the Messerschmitt Bf-109???

Suggestions!?!
Title: Re: Zero developments
Post by: Maverick on December 22, 2011, 08:53:16 PM: One could suggest it did. Various marks gave greater armament and engine power, then there was the Reppu that could be considered a cousin. In reality though, the Japanese doctrine of light, maneuverable aircraft really deep-sixed any development of meaning in my opinion as they seemed quite entrenched in the idea.

Regards,

John
Title: Re: Zero developments
Post by: taiidantomcat on December 23, 2011, 02:47:01 AM: Quote from: Maverick on December 22, 2011, 08:53:16 PM
One could suggest it did. Various marks gave greater armament and engine power, then there was the Reppu that could be considered a cousin. In reality though, the Japanese doctrine of light, maneuverable aircraft really deep-sixed any development of meaning in my opinion as they seemed quite entrenched in the idea.

Regards,

John

Agree with all of the above. One problem the zero had was because it was built so light that it wasn't easy to hang on all the "lumps and bumps" and other really big developments we see with typical start to finish WWII fighters like the Spitfire Mk.1 to the Spitfire MK eleventy billion XVXILLI ! LOL The structure just couldn't take a lot of adjustment or improvement. The Japanese didn't leave much "wiggle room" you could say.

But having said that, this is whif world! I always wondered what a Zero would look like Up armored for bomber hunting like the third riech's modified FW 190s.

(http://static.hlj.com/images/hsg/hsg09821.jpg)

This is too me the Zero Variant that looks the most "different" from all the others. Kinsei 62 engined.
Title: Re: Zero developments
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on December 23, 2011, 03:18:02 AM: How about a Zero with a more-than-three bladed propeller? Maybe use the six blade propeller from the J7W Shinden on the Zero? A simple to do modification and the end result would be rather pleasing. Loosing the cowl guns in the process as I doubt propeller synchronization would be able to cope with the reduced clearance interval for firing the cowl guns. With the cowl guns removed and the now empty space could be devoted to something else such as an auxiliary fuel tank. Adding additional weapons to the wing to make up for the lost firepower and ensuring that all guns are the same caliber so there are no differences in bullet trajectories for the pilot to worry about.
Title: Re: Zero developments
Post by: GTX_Admin on December 23, 2011, 05:27:24 AM: Here's one I did a while back along the same theme - removed some canopy framing, gave it a bigger engine with contra props and a fuselage stretch:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/More%20Creations/zero9.jpg)

Regards,

Greg
Title: Re: Zero developments
Post by: simmie on December 23, 2011, 09:47:17 AM: Yes, your right there Mav, it was light and chuck-able over everything else.

Mind you it would be interesting to see the A6M with a Aichi Atsuta or a Kawasaki Ha-40. Both being the DB-601 manufactured under licence.
Title: Twin-engined Zero?
Post by: sequoiaranger on December 23, 2011, 11:47:21 PM: this would be a potent "offensive strategic fighter", but couldn't hold its own with nimble single-engined defenders. Two 20mm, six 7.7 mg's in two rows of four in the nose. Modified Thai "elephantine" markings, "real" Thai camo scheme, the numbers "9 4" on side in Thai.

(http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/vv173/sequoiaranger/ZQ.jpg)

See "manga" artwork on another post for SIMILAR idea (mine was brewing in my head for decades and finally I did it!). Wingspan and length just slightly more than the Zero, but not too surprisingly almost identical to the supposed dimensions of the Manga plane. On mine, engines/nacelles are centered on wing instead of underslung, and nose is more blunt and has more armament. Also added fillet on vertical tail. A cut-down "Dinah" with Zero attributes. Here is an in-progress mock-up:

(http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/vv173/sequoiaranger/ZebMockUp2.jpg)
Title: Re: Zero developments
Post by: The Big Gimper on December 24, 2011, 01:09:05 AM: Quote from: GTX_Admin on December 23, 2011, 05:27:24 AM
Here's one I did a while back along the same theme - removed some canopy framing, gave it a bigger engine with contra props and a fuselage stretch:

Regards,

Greg

Any A/C looks better with contra props IMHO.

:-*
Title: Re: Zero developments
Post by: GTX_Admin on December 24, 2011, 02:53:34 AM: Quote
See "manga" artwork below for SIMILAR idea (mine was brewing in my head for decades and finally I did it!). Wingspan and length just slightly more than the Zero, but not too surprisingly almost identical to the supposed dimensions of the Manga plane. On mine, engines/nacelles are centered on wing instead of underslung, and nose is more blunt and has more armament. Also added fillet on vertical tail. A cut-down "Dinah" with Zero attributes.

(Dunno why the pic above doesn't appear :yush: )

Would this happen to be the pic?

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/XZeroTwin1.jpg)
Title: Re: Zero developments
Post by: GTX_Admin on December 24, 2011, 03:42:44 AM: What about a DB605 powered Zero?

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/A6M605.jpg)

Regards,

Greg
Title: Re: Zero developments
Post by: taiidantomcat on December 25, 2011, 12:04:48 AM: Quote from: GTX_Admin on December 24, 2011, 03:42:44 AM
What about a DB605 powered Zero?

([url]http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/A6M605.jpg[/url])

Regards,

Greg

I can feel the JMN blood boiling from here. Oh my how that would anger them :omg-: :yush:
Title: Re: Zero developments
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on December 25, 2011, 01:04:38 AM: Quote from: taiidantomcat on December 25, 2011, 12:04:48 AM
I can feel the JMN blood boiling from here. Oh my how that would anger them :omg-: :yush:

Spin them up! Make it and put it in German markings for defense of the homeland :^)
Title: Re: Zero developments
Post by: GTX_Admin on December 25, 2011, 02:21:47 AM: But ensure you get the colours right...
Title: Re: Zero developments
Post by: GTX_Admin on December 25, 2011, 03:23:02 AM: What about Zeros fitted with underwing rockets ala the 21cm ones used on Bf109s & Fw190s:

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/ba/Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-674-7772-13A%2C_Flugzeug_Focke-Wulf_Fw_190%2C_Bewaffnung.jpg)

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/2172377245_1a0e6c0eef_o.jpg)
Title: Re: Zero developments
Post by: simmie on December 25, 2011, 09:06:54 AM: Quote from: GTX_Admin on December 24, 2011, 03:42:44 AM
What about a DB605 powered Zero?

([url]http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/A6M605.jpg[/url])

Regards,

Greg

Very nice work there

How about a clear view canopy or even a Rufe?
Title: Re: Zero developments
Post by: jcf on December 25, 2011, 03:27:06 PM: Quote from: GTX_Admin on December 24, 2011, 03:42:44 AM
What about a DB605 powered Zero?

Regards,

Greg

Sure, but how about using a far more aesthetically pleasing Ki 61 or M6A Seiran type installation,
rather than that fugly Bavarian thang.
:tagger:
Title: Re: Zero developments
Post by: Daryl J. on May 29, 2012, 06:15:21 AM: There is no question the engine in the Zero was remarkably fuel efficient.

How about using the Zero in a post-war setting with proper materials and manufacturing serving the US Navy in Korea?
Title: Re: Zero developments
Post by: elmayerle on May 29, 2012, 09:34:55 AM: Quote from: Daryl J. on May 29, 2012, 06:15:21 AM
There is no question the engine in the Zero was remarkably fuel efficient.

How about using the Zero in a post-war setting with proper materials and manufacturing serving the US Navy in Korea?

An "A6M7" with a suitable Allied engine or would it retain the Japanese engine but built with better materials?
Title: Re: Zero developments
Post by: Daryl J. on May 29, 2012, 10:17:05 AM: The Japanese engine. But with proper materials out of proper manufacturing facilities.
Title: Re: Zero developments
Post by: GTX_Admin on May 29, 2012, 06:51:21 PM: Imagine a Zero with a high powered diesel engine...
Title: Re: Zero developments
Post by: RussC on May 30, 2012, 07:21:33 AM: Something more along the lines of turbojet. Backstory included.

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7103/7298211098_271b06e36f_b.jpg)

After the Germany/Russia/Italy triumverate declared war on the UK/United States/Canada/Japan, forcing into coalition, aircraft designs took an alternate timeline branch.

Pictured here is a land based A6M8, named "Haku" which has a alternate base on the CV HMCS Montreal. The craft is powered by two GE / NE 20 jets, configured Mig 9 fashion. The cloth control surfaces are replaced with metal to resist heat. Coalition navy markings are on the fuselage and tail.
Title: Re: Zero developments
Post by: ysi_maniac on May 30, 2012, 09:18:13 AM: Quote from: GTX_Admin on December 24, 2011, 02:53:34 AM
([url]http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/XZeroTwin1.jpg[/url])

Can anyone make same process with a F4U? Please.
Title: Re: Zero developments
Post by: raafif on May 30, 2012, 12:08:26 PM: Quote from: ysi_maniac on May 30, 2012, 09:18:13 AM
Can anyone make same process with a F4U? Please.

did one yesterday !! scroll down near the bottom of the page ...
http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=852.105 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=852.105)
Title: Re: Zero developments
Post by: GTX_Admin on January 10, 2015, 06:03:26 AM: Does anyone do 1/48 scale decals for this:

(http://www.bravobravoaviation.com/Prints/A6M%20Zero/DD-017%20-%20Nakajima%20A6M2-N,%20Escadrille%208.S,%20Indochine,%201946.jpg)
Title: Re: Zero developments
Post by: GTX_Admin on January 11, 2015, 02:20:26 AM: How about a jet Zero using the T1 turbojet as proposed for the Fw190TL.

(http://www.rc-network.de/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=608438&stc=1&d=1297974982)
(http://strange-mecha.com/german/luftvaffe/fw/fw190tl.JPG)

The Fw190TL was projected to have a speed of 830km/h @ 8000m. Imagine what a A6M TL using a much lighter airframe might have achieved.
Title: Re: Zero developments
Post by: elmayerle on January 11, 2015, 04:23:43 AM: And for those who feel adventurous, Unicraft does make a conversion kit, at least in 1/72, for the Fw190T; it could be repurposed onto a kit of a late-model Zero.
Title: Re: Zero developments
Post by: GTX_Admin on January 11, 2015, 04:39:55 AM: Quote from: elmayerle on January 11, 2015, 04:23:43 AM
And for those who feel adventurous, Unicraft does make a conversion kit, at least in 1/72, for the Fw190T; it could be repurposed onto a kit of a late-model Zero.

Antares do a conversion set in 1/48…and I have one or two... ;)
Title: Re: Zero developments
Post by: elmayerle on January 11, 2015, 09:25:26 AM: How about a post-war air-racing Zero with a R2800 or a Centaurus?
Title: Re: Zero developments
Post by: Rickshaw on January 11, 2015, 10:35:53 AM: How about a Zero or other Japanese aircraft with better quality fuels? ;)
Title: Re: Zero developments
Post by: raafif on January 11, 2015, 12:16:55 PM: Swiss fly Rufes from their lakes ? Someone did a Finnish one on farcebook ...

& a nice 00 (twin-Zero)
Title: Re: Zero developments
Post by: Vuk on January 12, 2015, 04:39:22 AM: Quote from: GTX_Admin on January 11, 2015, 02:20:26 AM
How about a jet Zero using the T1 turbojet as proposed for the Fw190TL.

...

The Fw190TL was projected to have a speed of 830km/h @ 8000m. Imagine what a A6M TL using a much lighter airframe might have achieved.

Couple years ago I found this b/w profile of Fw 190TL, but I can't remember where...
Title: Re: Zero developments
Post by: ysi_maniac on October 10, 2018, 11:06:46 PM: ^^^^^
Where are nozzles?
Title: Re: Zero developments
Post by: ysi_maniac on October 10, 2018, 11:07:15 PM: ~~Reengining Zero with turbocharged Allison, taken from P-38J and with DB taken from Bf-109G~~

(http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j340/ysi_maniac/Drawing/ReengineZero.jpeg) (http://s1080.photobucket.com/user/ysi_maniac/media/Drawing/ReengineZero.jpeg.html)

EDIT

Reengining Zero with:

turbocharged Allison, taken from P-38J
DB taken from Bf-109G
Jumo taken from Fw190 Dora
Title: Re: Zero developments
Post by: ysi_maniac on October 26, 2018, 10:05:17 AM: Stalin's Zero, powered by Mikulin

(http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j340/ysi_maniac/Drawing/SovietZero.jpg) (http://s1080.photobucket.com/user/ysi_maniac/media/Drawing/SovietZero.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Zero developments
Post by: GTX_Admin on October 27, 2018, 02:50:30 AM: Interesting.
Title: Re: Zero developments
Post by: GTX_Admin on February 25, 2022, 02:50:59 AM: (https://i.pinimg.com/736x/cc/5c/77/cc5c77efcd02a4991f788c4cc363db60.jpg)
Title: Re: Zero developments
Post by: GTX_Admin on March 27, 2022, 02:01:01 AM: (https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/0246dd0e-5d49-4d08-a8ae-daa09f0b309f/dcxjnkp-fe5f881f-25de-4b36-9e56-1b985b674c43.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcLzAyNDZkZDBlLTVkNDktNGQwOC1hOGFlLWRhYTA5ZjBiMzA5ZlwvZGN4am5rcC1mZTVmODgxZi0yNWRlLTRiMzYtOWU1Ni0xYjk4NWI2NzRjNDMuanBnIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.ZFXlWcj3gWFFAIHbMG2n1V_AM4b_cAF5bJtp4UlLv6o)
Title: Re: Zero developments
Post by: Litvyak on March 28, 2022, 04:07:17 AM: Quote from: ysi_maniac on October 26, 2018, 10:05:17 AM
Stalin's Zero, powered by Mikulin

([url]http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j340/ysi_maniac/Drawing/SovietZero.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://s1080.photobucket.com/user/ysi_maniac/media/Drawing/SovietZero.jpg.html[/url])

This is so good it looks real.