Author Topic: F-23A photo recon version  (Read 21416 times)

Offline Kerick

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Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #75 on: May 10, 2019, 07:47:03 AM »
Museum pieces today!

Thanks Jeff. I like your explanation.


Offline Old Wombat

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Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #76 on: May 10, 2019, 10:05:49 AM »
I didn't even buy my first computer until 4 years after these - a System 7 Apple Mackintosh Classic ..... I still have it! ;)

Similar to this (image IS a museum piece!):

"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline Kerick

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Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #77 on: May 10, 2019, 12:25:12 PM »
But does it still work?

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #78 on: May 10, 2019, 01:02:24 PM »
I should also add that the unit I was assigned to at the time when I was stationed at Fort Bragg, NC was able to acquire for the intelligence analysts (not my section) a quantity of Grid Compass laptop computers.  Being that these were to be used in a secure area (aka SCIF) and would contain classified data bases, the requirement was for each of these to have a perishable memory that was deleted when the machine powered off.  On powering up the machines, the operating system would have to be loaded via 3.5"/90mm floppy diskettes.  For what they were using the things for in the section that had them it was tedious and cumbersome.  I do remember seeing an example of a Grid Compass laptop on display at the Smithsonian in Washington D.C. at the Air and Space Museum.  It was part of the display for the Space Shuttle and it was not much different from the Grid units we had in my unit.  Images of this now "antique" can be seen via this link: Grid Laptop Computers.  I should also add that at the time these things were not cheap, running somewhere around $20K per unit not including the accessories.  Also they were Tempest emission secured so you were okay to use them without worry about being monitored.  My own section was less fortunate, being the imagery analysts, we were tasked with imagery related things and our first computer showed up in very large green plastic boxes that would have made the folks at Pelican Products jealous.  Opened at both top and bottom or front and back depending on orientation of the contents.  We had what on the outside would have been an Apple computer not sure which model but it was rather limited.  We also had some very clunky looking keyboards, a laser disk reader for the very old 11.0"/28cm laser disks that contained digital terrain elevation data.  Apparently the computer had been originally designed for use by the Army Engineers (combat engineers or civil engineers not sure which) and one of the programs included with this Army Apple allowed you to calculate how many pounds of explosive would be required to address obstacles such as reinforced concrete or structural steel.  Pretty neat and a lot of fun to use but at the end of the day it was still just an apple in a bunch of green boxes with serious limitations.  The one thing that we could actually do with this pig of a rig was create terrain elevation models that could then be printed out on a dot-matrix printer.  Very limited capability but it was better than nothing.  For the part of the world we were focused on, it was useful tool that could be used to create views of the terrain at eye level looking towards the target or from the target looking towards the observation point.  As primitive as that was, it pales in comparison to what we have now at our disposal. 
"Every day we hear about new studies 'revealing' what should have been obvious to sentient beings for generations; 'Research shows wolverines don't like to be teased" -- Jonah Goldberg

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #79 on: May 10, 2019, 01:04:16 PM »
Now if there were a way to incorporate some decent wing pylons capable of carrying large fuel such as those found on the F-15 and F-22...
"Every day we hear about new studies 'revealing' what should have been obvious to sentient beings for generations; 'Research shows wolverines don't like to be teased" -- Jonah Goldberg

Offline elmayerle

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Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #80 on: May 10, 2019, 01:39:34 PM »
Now if there were a way to incorporate some decent wing pylons capable of carrying large fuel such as those found on the F-15 and F-22...
I'd reckon F-22 pylons and tanks would not be too inappropriate here, though I would suspect they would be used first and dropped before going into territory where maximum LO was required.  Alternative would perhaps be meeting up with a KB-2A (they only made 21 B-2A's, that doesn't mean other variants might not be out there in the "Black World").

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #81 on: May 11, 2019, 12:49:54 AM »
But does it still work?

Yes, only the mouse is a bit too dodgy for the set-up to be actually usable.
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline Kerick

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Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #82 on: May 11, 2019, 08:25:52 AM »
Now if there were a way to incorporate some decent wing pylons capable of carrying large fuel such as those found on the F-15 and F-22...
I'd reckon F-22 pylons and tanks would not be too inappropriate here, though I would suspect they would be used first and dropped before going into territory where maximum LO was required.  Alternative would perhaps be meeting up with a KB-2A (they only made 21 B-2A's, that doesn't mean other variants might not be out there in the "Black World").

B-2A with removable refueling rig in the bomb bay? Hmmmm......
I’ll look into the pylon and tank idea. Thanks!

Offline elmayerle

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Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #83 on: May 11, 2019, 10:22:21 AM »
Actually, a B-2A with the additional long-range tank in the starboard "cargo bay" (heh, that's how they are labeled on the drawings), as is an option, and either an LO drogue system in the port "cargo bay" or a stealthy retractable boom that stows in the port cargo bay; I rather favor the former approach as I think it would be technically easier, but I could see how to work either of them.

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #84 on: May 12, 2019, 03:18:51 AM »
B-2A with removable refueling rig in the bomb bay? Hmmmm......
I’ll look into the pylon and tank idea. Thanks!

I wonder...does anyone do a version of the below trialled set up as a model conversion:
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Offline Kerick

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Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #85 on: May 12, 2019, 03:27:01 AM »
A KF-23????
Now that would really be a stretch version!

Offline elmayerle

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Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #86 on: May 12, 2019, 12:07:04 PM »
B-2A with removable refueling rig in the bomb bay? Hmmmm......
I’ll look into the pylon and tank idea. Thanks!

I wonder...does anyone do a version of the below trialled set up as a model conversion:
Wasn't there something similar proposed for the TSR.2?  ISTR that someone did such a conversion set for it.

Offline Kerick

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Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #87 on: June 17, 2019, 11:38:29 AM »
I attached the tail fins. Can't call them vertical or horizontal stabilizers! I had to trim them to fit as the mating surfaces did not match at all. The fuselage surface had a concave shape while the fin was flat. I think I got the angle correct. I have to fix the landing gear as the shape may be correct (at least it looks good) it will never support the weight of the model. Some reinforcing with straight pins will be required. Oh well, there is always some problem to overcome.
I tested some dark grey gloss paint from the hardware store on the one fin and after a couple weeks drying time it showed fingerprints as soon as I handled it. I hope different paint over it doesn't cause problems.

Offline Kerick

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Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #88 on: August 25, 2019, 01:24:42 PM »
I removed the grey paint from the fins. Quite a little PITA. Sprayed some primer on. Only one small portion of one stab had a bad reaction and crazed slightly. I'll take this as a win. Still can't decide on a color scheme. If I would get it together and use my airbrush I could mix the colors I want and get on with this job. I've had such bad luck with painting on my last few projects I really hesitate to try. Oh well, I won't get better at this by staring at it, I'll have to try something different.



The 1/48th scale gun pods might become 1/72nd scale fuel tanks. I haven't used them for their intended purpose in 20 years so might as well use them here. Minus the gun barrels and adding a tail cone and fins. What would a stealthy fuel tank really look like?

Offline finsrin

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Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #89 on: August 25, 2019, 01:35:47 PM »
Looks fast as closest runner up to SR-71.

Offline elmayerle

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Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #90 on: August 25, 2019, 01:38:04 PM »
What would a stealthy fuel tank really look like?
Well, something like the main body of the AGM-137A, but with either the front end mirrored to the back end or the existing back end closed out with a reduced-size version of the front end is a definite possibility.

Offline Kerick

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Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #91 on: August 25, 2019, 09:20:02 PM »
I’ll look that up! The F-35 has some sort of pod that fits on the centerline position that might give a clue. Although that means some sculpting will be required. That’s ok, I enjoy that part the most!

Offline kitnut617

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Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #92 on: August 25, 2019, 10:58:05 PM »
What would a stealthy fuel tank really look like?
Well, something like the main body of the AGM-137A, but with either the front end mirrored to the back end or the existing back end closed out with a reduced-size version of the front end is a definite possibility.

I've seen those drop tanks that shapeways has for the F-35, I was thinking of asking the master-maker if he would change the appearance so it looked like a smaller F-35 forward fuselage in section (if it works for the fuselage, it should work for a tank). Even then I'm not sure why the bulk of the tank is so far forward.

Offline elmayerle

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Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #93 on: August 26, 2019, 12:46:29 AM »
Depending on which stations the tanks were carried on, I could see the bulk of the tank being forward for area rule reasons.

As I said, using http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/m-137.html and the three-view there as a guide, split the airframe just in front of the wings and mirror the front part to the back for an LO drop tank.  Though you could probably get away with just removing the wings and tail surfaces and using that shape for the tank.

Offline tankmodeler

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Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #94 on: August 26, 2019, 11:29:43 PM »
I’ll look that up! The F-35 has some sort of pod that fits on the centerline position that might give a clue. Although that means some sculpting will be required. That’s ok, I enjoy that part the most!
The F-35 drop tanks are NOT designed to be stealthy. They are oddly designed for, as was mentioned, area ruling and other aerodynamic reasons. Not stealth. They are awful for stealth.

You would definitely want something that looks like the AGM-137 but possibly with a nod to the area ruling of the drop tanks, if you want it to be used stealthily. Of course, you could do as the USAF is doing and assuming that you use the non stealthy tanks in transit and drop them for the stealth part of the mission, in which case they can be any shape you like.

Paul

Offline kitnut617

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Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #95 on: August 27, 2019, 01:19:15 AM »
Sort of like what I used here on my F-35B

Offline Kerick

  • Reportedly finished with a stripper...
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #96 on: September 04, 2019, 12:52:12 AM »
Thunderstorms in the area today so no outdoor projects to distract me. Hopefully I will make the stealth fuel tanks today. I'm going to pattern them after the AGM-158 JASSM (Joint Air-to-Surface Standoff Missile).

Offline Kerick

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Re: RF-23A photo recon version
« Reply #97 on: November 09, 2023, 12:30:35 PM »
Whatifmodelers is having a Finish It GB so this might see some action. No promises but the GB is a year long so be patient. This is more to move this up in the line so it won't take 15 minutes to find it again!

Offline KiwiZac

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Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #98 on: November 11, 2023, 02:49:36 AM »
Godspeed Kerick, it would be terrific to see this great build complete!
Zac in NZ
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Offline Kerick

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Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #99 on: November 11, 2023, 01:21:36 PM »
It’s been painted gloss black since the last pic. I think the biggest hang up right now is figuring out how to reinforce the landing gear. As it is OOB it’s just begging to snap off.