Author Topic: Lockheed P-3 Orion Ideas and Inspiration  (Read 42112 times)

Offline Damian

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Lockheed P-3 Orion Ideas and Inspiration
« on: January 08, 2014, 07:18:35 AM »

Hi guys,

Was doing a little research into the PX-L and P-X programs when I decided to tinker with the P-3 airframe and mate it to a new wing with winglet, tail plane and turbojet engines. This resulted in a deepening of the fuselage (now can house a bomb bay and sounabuoy launchers). Bear in mind this is a very quick and rought job and I have been up since 05:30 local (now 01:21) :)

I think with a little refinement this could be a pretty cool whiff. Will play around with the configuration changing up engines, wings and fuselage to see what works.

« Last Edit: January 08, 2014, 07:27:22 AM by damian »
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Lockheed P-3 Orion Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2014, 11:33:35 AM »
Err, the P-3 currently has both a weapons bay and sonobuoy launchers.  The weapons bay is just forward of the wing and aft of the APU installation (if you see a picture of an EP-3E, the "M&M" mounts in the weapons bay) while the sonobuoy launchers are in the aft fuselage.  Working on the P-3C--> EP-3E conversion gave me a nice familiarity with the basic aircraft.  I could see deepening the fuselage giving you a more spacious weapons bay as well as more fuel tankage, but, really, to make it useful, the upper lobe needs to be widened, it's rather tight, especially on an EP-3E that's crowded with ELINT crew and electronics.

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Re: Lockheed P-3 Orion Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2014, 02:50:16 PM »
Further to what Evan has said, here is an image of a RAAF AP-3C showing very clearly the weapons bay and the sonobuoy chutes:



That aside though, I certainly do like your jet P-3.  Very tempting.
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Offline Damian

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Re: Lockheed P-3 Orion Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2014, 05:34:19 PM »
Err, the P-3 currently has both a weapons bay and sonobuoy launchers.  The weapons bay is just forward of the wing and aft of the APU installation (if you see a picture of an EP-3E, the "M&M" mounts in the weapons bay) while the sonobuoy launchers are in the aft fuselage.  Working on the P-3C--> EP-3E conversion gave me a nice familiarity with the basic aircraft.  I could see deepening the fuselage giving you a more spacious weapons bay as well as more fuel tankage, but, really, to make it useful, the upper lobe needs to be widened, it's rather tight, especially on an EP-3E that's crowded with ELINT crew and electronics.


As I said long day, forgot about the forward bay :)

So for the upper lobe would you suggest taking the approach of the Kawasaki P-X in terms of design to give the crew more cabin room?



Thanks for the input so far :)
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Re: Lockheed P-3 Orion Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2014, 06:21:13 PM »
I wonder...a twin engine P-3?
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Offline PR19_Kit

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Re: Lockheed P-3 Orion Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2014, 06:44:20 PM »
So for the upper lobe would you suggest taking the approach of the Kawasaki P-X in terms of design to give the crew more cabin room?




Well I'll be darned, I'd never even heard of that before I saw your pic of it.  :-[

You learn something new etc. etc.
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Lockheed P-3 Orion Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2014, 10:57:29 AM »
So for the upper lobe would you suggest taking the approach of the Kawasaki P-X in terms of design to give the crew more cabin room?



It could definitely use it, both in the patrol and ELINT versions, especially the latter.  The basic P-3 was derived from the Electra which was set up for two-abreast seating on each side of the aisle, and those were coach seats.  Only plane I've been in that was tighter than an EP-3E was an E-2.

Offline PR19_Kit

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Re: Lockheed P-3 Orion Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2014, 11:34:02 AM »
  Only plane I've been in that was tighter than an EP-3E was an E-2.

I can tell you've not been inside a Shackleton then........... :)
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Lockheed P-3 Orion Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2014, 11:44:46 AM »
  Only plane I've been in that was tighter than an EP-3E was an E-2.

I can tell you've not been inside a Shackleton then........... :)
No, no I haven't.  I haven't even seen one anywhere in the USA that I've been.  I'd love to, but doubt I'll get to see one.

Offline finsrin

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Re: Lockheed P-3 Orion Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2014, 12:25:49 PM »
Four A400M engines mounted on top side of wing.  That high enough for props to clear ground ?
Be a BIG power increase.

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Lockheed P-3 Orion Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2014, 12:29:56 PM »
Considering that the present engines are already on the top side of the wing, you may need to raise those A400M engines a bit more.  It would be rather more modest, but I'd like to see one with the engines and propellers of a C-130J.  If you have the extra power, perhaps add back in the 10ft they removed from the Electra in making the Orion.

Offline PR19_Kit

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Re: Lockheed P-3 Orion Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2014, 06:58:31 PM »
  Only plane I've been in that was tighter than an EP-3E was an E-2.


I can tell you've not been inside a Shackleton then........... :)

No, no I haven't.  I haven't even seen one anywhere in the USA that I've been.  I'd love to, but doubt I'll get to see one.


WL790, which was the world's last airworthy Shackleton, is currently on static display at the Pima Museum in Texas. It used to be with the RAF's 8 Sqdn. at Lossiemouth and I had the pleasure of going aboard 'Mr McHenry' (all 8 Sqdn's Shacks were named after Magic Roundabout characters.... :)) while she was in service there. When the RAF swapped its Shacks some Boeing jet devices two of them were bought by Air Atlantique in Coventry, and WL790 was kept in flying condition for a while, but the CAA here wouldn't play ball and the aircraft was flown to the USA. It was based at Anoka County Airport just north of Minneapolis MN for a while and I managed to get aboard her AGAIN while she was there.

With funds running out she was flown down to the CAF base at Midland TX for a few years and was then moved to Pima.

See this site for information on her last flight. http://www.skippyscage.com/aviation/az/wl790/
Regards
Kit

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Offline kitnut617

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Re: Lockheed P-3 Orion Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2014, 11:44:47 PM »
Four A400M engines mounted on top side of wing.  That high enough for props to clear ground ?
Be a BIG power increase.

The A400M props are a whopping 17'-6" in diameter Bill (about 1 1/2 times bigger than an P-3 prop and almost the same size as the Hughes HK-1)), not only would you need to move them up further, you'd have to space them out on the wing more for fuselage clearance and then engine to engine clearance.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2014, 11:48:13 PM by kitnut617 »

Offline finsrin

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Re: Lockheed P-3 Orion Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2014, 02:28:58 AM »
Ok, I see.  Is overkill for engine & prop.
C-130J combo closer to doable !

Offline kitnut617

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Re: Lockheed P-3 Orion Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2014, 02:58:42 AM »
Yes, just a tad ----  ;)

I think a lot of people get the impression the A400M is just a European C-130, when really it's in a different class altogether


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Re: Lockheed P-3 Orion Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2014, 03:45:01 AM »
Robert: The A400M is in the middle? What is the El-humungo plane on the bottom?

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Offline Weaver

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Re: Lockheed P-3 Orion Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2014, 04:22:50 AM »
Further to what Evan has said, here is an image of a RAAF AP-3C showing very clearly the weapons bay and the sonobuoy chutes:



That aside though, I certainly do like your jet P-3.  Very tempting.



Grief that's a small weapons bay!

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Offline PR19_Kit

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Re: Lockheed P-3 Orion Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2014, 04:39:23 AM »
Grief that's a small weapons bay!

Weaver
Used to Nimrods  ;)

Didn't the Nimrod have the largest weapons bay of ANY RAF aircraft ever?

Hmmmm, Nimrod B1 (Special) anyone?  ;)
Regards
Kit

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Offline kitnut617

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Re: Lockheed P-3 Orion Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2014, 04:57:04 AM »
Robert: The A400M is in the middle? What is the El-humungo plane on the bottom?

Front end of a C-17, or in our case CC-177.  Same scale.

I'm going to build my C-130J as a Canadian one (CC-130-30), got the fuselage plugs for it already.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2014, 04:58:43 AM by kitnut617 »

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: Lockheed P-3 Orion Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2014, 05:28:33 AM »
The Hasegawa P-3 Orion kit does not have the bomb bay feature so you have to add it in and these two detail and conversion sets from Eduard will allow you to do just that:

P-3 Orion bomb bay conversion kit instructions for Hasagawa kit (72nd scale 72467)

P-3 Orion detail set for Hasegawa kit instructions (72nd scale 73282)

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Offline Weaver

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Re: Lockheed P-3 Orion Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2014, 08:20:22 PM »
Interesting to note that the P-3 has blade aerials actually on the bomb bay doors...



Grief that's a small weapons bay!

Weaver
Used to Nimrods  ;)

Didn't the Nimrod have the largest weapons bay of ANY RAF aircraft ever?

Hmmmm, Nimrod B1 (Special) anyone?  ;)


I think it was the longest: not sure about total volume though, since all the V-bombers' bays were much deeper.

There was some talk of the MRA.4 have a "Nimrod B.4" capability, since it had a MIL.STD-1760 databus and four high-rated 3-point pylons that could carry virtually anything. Most of the artwork had Harpoons on the wing pylons so we used to envisage it with 4 x SLAM-ERs on the wings, 4 x JDAMs in the bomb bay, 4 x ALARMs on the outboard side of the pylons and 4 x AMRAAMs on the inboard sides for self-defence (the radar would have had a pretty decent air-to-air capability).  >:D
« Last Edit: January 10, 2014, 08:40:30 PM by Weaver »
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Re: Lockheed P-3 Orion Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2014, 04:45:53 AM »
I'd like to see one with the engines and propellers of a C-130J. 

That's basically the Orion 2000.  I understand that after the 'issues' experienced with the C-130J that Lockheed Martin were very cautious regarding doing a 'simple' re-engining on the P-3.
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Re: Lockheed P-3 Orion Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2014, 04:51:10 AM »

Grief that's a small weapons bay!



Big enough to do the job though... ;)

Besides, there are also pylons:



« Last Edit: January 11, 2014, 04:53:11 AM by GTX_Admin »
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Re: Lockheed P-3 Orion Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2014, 04:54:12 AM »
Interesting to note that the P-3 has blade aerials actually on the bomb bay doors...

IIRC, they were added as part of either AIR5140 or AIR5276
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Re: Lockheed P-3 Orion Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2014, 04:57:01 AM »

I think a lot of people get the impression the A400M is just a European C-130, when really it's in a different class altogether



Slightly off topic, but this gives you a good comparison between the C-130J, A400M and C-17.  As you can see the A-400M fits nicely between the two:


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