Author Topic: Talos' Profiles - He 100 and He 280  (Read 79282 times)

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Talos' Profiles - He 100 and He 280
« Reply #150 on: July 24, 2013, 02:10:06 AM »
and the Ju388
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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Offline Talos

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Re: Talos' Profiles - He 100 and He 280
« Reply #151 on: July 24, 2013, 03:03:10 AM »
I maaaaaay have some interesting plans for all of those.  ;)

Offline Logan Hartke

  • High priest in the black arts of profiling...
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Re: Talos' Profiles - He 100 and He 280
« Reply #152 on: July 24, 2013, 05:37:13 AM »
Hey guys, Captain Buzzkill here.  I do want to point out that Talos does those silhouettes for fun in his downtime, but the amount of work it takes to turn one of those into a finished profile cannot be overstated.  There's a profile that Talos and I are currently working on that he had the silhouette for and that we were discussing FOUR YEARS ago.  Talos will be the first one to tell you, the silhouette is the first, easiest part of the whole exercise.

All the little rivets, panel lines, complex shapes, they are SOUL SUCKING and take him far more time to complete.  After that, he gets the layers to me and I can start blocking out, lighting, and shading the aircraft.  Then we go over the details.  I notice things he missed or needs to revise, he notices mistakes I make in the lighting and shading, and these go back and forth a few times.  Finally, once I'm happy with the lighting and shading, I can start on the detailing, texturing, weathering, etc.

Once all that's done, the aircraft paint schemes are the relatively easy part.  I then apply the markings and Talos often helps with any custom markings I can't easily find at the quality we need.  When that's all done I write up a few paragraphs of back story behind the profile.  So, done?  Not quite.  I have to save the image in about 10 different sizes and formats for all the previews and images: cropped for close-ups of the nose art and special markings, on the blue gradient background, on the white background, with the small signature or the full descriptive text, PNG and JPG, etc.  I then have to upload it to DeviantArt so you can all see the lovely full-size image, upload the images to Photobucket, and start posting it.  I generally make posts on Beyond the Sprues, DeviantArt (obviously), What If forums, and sometimes Spinners.  Since I usually enter it in a group build, you can add a new thread and a few more posts to that.  If I show the WIP images, then I have to upload all those and link all of them, too.

Finally, Talos and I also try to make it a point to reply to all of the comments received on all the forums, this one especially.  Beyond the Sprues is really our home base.  Then, we start getting calls for structural modifications, most of which we will have been considering already for the past 4 years but don't know when we'd ever get to them.

Again all I'm saying is that the silhouettes are very cool and plenty of work in and of themselves, but that there are many hundreds of hours of work before you're going to see any profiles to the level of the P-61 and He 100, for instance.  That having been said, Talos does his own profiles, as well, so you may see one of those sooner.

Cheers,

Logan

Offline Talos

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Re: Talos' Profiles - He 100 and He 280
« Reply #153 on: July 24, 2013, 05:50:52 AM »
Precisely. These are just boilerplate starting points for me. I like to do them as a start to gauge the shape and size (particularly the size in comparison to other aircraft). There are a couple on here that Logan has no interest in, for instance, like the F8U-3, that we won't be collaborating on. Others like the Ju 388 are ones we've talked about how we like the plane, so I did up a beginning point and threw it in.

That being said, one of the silhouettes on here is being actively worked on, albeit still in the early detailing stages, for an eventual profile with Logan. I won't post a normal shot of that one until it's a lot closer to having the basic detailing done. Some of these will only ever get the line art treatment from me and will be posted as such here, but I hope to get back into the shaded profile game myself one day. It's been...a little too long since I've managed a finished one. That's down the line though, first and foremost I'm working on finishing up the world for the CWS GB profile. I think this one will catch you guys off-guard and knock your socks off.  ;)

And as for where I post, most of it's here, at least with my aircraft stuff. I post most of my scifi stuff on Wolf's Shipyard forum and, when I remember to, also repost my collaborations with Logan. Sometimes on my Deviantart as well. I do respond on all three of these sites if anyone ever has a question or comment, though.

Now to get back to work and knock out some line art this evening...

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Talos' Profiles - He 100 and He 280
« Reply #154 on: July 24, 2013, 05:20:36 PM »
Thanks for the info guys.  Sometimes people forget that a really detailed profile takes as much work to complete as a really detailed model kit.
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Talos' Profiles - He 100 and He 280
« Reply #155 on: July 24, 2013, 05:52:42 PM »
As much after reading that I am in awe, I have never put that much effort into a kit, I don't have the patience or skill required.  Love your work guys, keep it up.

Offline perttime

  • The man has produced a Finnish Napier Heston Fighter...need we say more?
Re: Talos' Profiles - He 100 and He 280
« Reply #156 on: July 24, 2013, 09:36:20 PM »
Yep.
Looking at a small (computer screen size) image of a Talos/Logan profile, you see a well made, very precise, profile. Go and peek at one of the huge full size images, though...
... the amount of detail is amazing. It cannot happen overnight.

So far, I haven't considered committing to such big productions. I worry that I'd run out of steam before anything comes out of it.

Offline Logan Hartke

  • High priest in the black arts of profiling...
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Re: Talos' Profiles - He 100 and He 280
« Reply #157 on: July 24, 2013, 10:52:33 PM »
I worry that I'd run out of steam before anything comes out of it.

It's been known to happen.  ;)

Cheers,

Logan

Offline Damian

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Re: Talos' Profiles - He 100 and He 280
« Reply #158 on: July 24, 2013, 11:48:51 PM »
Two of those new silouhets are due to info I passed on and may be a subject of another Damian/Talso collab sometime in the far future.

Once I am done with my solo project I will be dusting off balnks from out Macross collab too :)
Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc

Offline Talos

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Re: Talos' Profiles - He 100 and He 280
« Reply #159 on: July 25, 2013, 03:45:00 AM »
As much after reading that I am in awe, I have never put that much effort into a kit, I don't have the patience or skill required.  Love your work guys, keep it up.

Thanks! We do our best!

Thanks for the info guys.  Sometimes people forget that a really detailed profile takes as much work to complete as a really detailed model kit.

To be honest, most of my drawing time on these seems to be idly researching and getting carried away, sitting staring at the computer screen for several hours doing nothing, or spending forever tweaking a shape to get it just right. With the proper inspiration, mood, resources, and not having to go in and redo everything when different sources give me something different, I can work up a basic profile (no rivets and such) in no time. That just....doesn't happen very often these days.

I worry that I'd run out of steam before anything comes out of it.

It's been known to happen.  ;)

Cheers,

Logan

Ain't that the truth...

Two of those new silhouettes are due to info I passed on and may be a subject of another Damian/Talso collab sometime in the far future.

Once I am done with my solo project I will be dusting off blanks from out Macross collab too :)

Yeah, it's because of guys like you and Logan I'm turning into a line art factory.  :P



Really, the boilerplates are like design drafts, just have to figure out where they go in the queue to be finished. Some are just idle whims too (B-70, I'm looking at you), and others get a quick workup done for other reasons, like that WA-22 flying boat under the Valkyrie. I saw it on Retromechanix and loved the Streamline Moderne canopy on it (I'm a big fan of that era of design) and wanted to see how it sized up to my Do 26ATT I had done, as well as see how cleanly I could get the almost organic curves of it's shape done with the minimum of cleanup needed. There's also one project I haven't even gotten to the boilerplate stage yet, but I got some good advice from the original engineer who designed the concept and I hope to start plugging away at the line art sometime this summer.

Offline Logan Hartke

  • High priest in the black arts of profiling...
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Re: Talos' Profiles - He 100 and He 280
« Reply #160 on: July 25, 2013, 05:35:52 AM »
Thanks for the info guys.  Sometimes people forget that a really detailed profile takes as much work to complete as a really detailed model kit.

To be honest, most of my drawing time on these seems to be idly researching and getting carried away, sitting staring at the computer screen for several hours doing nothing, or spending forever tweaking a shape to get it just right. With the proper inspiration, mood, resources, and not having to go in and redo everything when different sources give me something different, I can work up a basic profile (no rivets and such) in no time. That just....doesn't happen very often these days.

Talos brings up a very good point.  On the matter of research, people also don't see how many books we buy to research all these profiles.  We use them for details, history, the whole thing from start to finish.  I just got a 38 year old book in the mail yesterday to help with the current profile we're working on.  Talos and I can be sitting on IM for hours, just telling each other to look at the photo on the bottom left page # of this book to see an example of what we think something depicted in some reference line art actually translates to.

For example, I bought probably $200 worth of books for just the P-61 profiles.

Cheers,

Logan

Offline Dr. YoKai

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Re: Talos' Profiles - He 100 and He 280
« Reply #161 on: July 27, 2013, 02:52:52 AM »
 I'll just keep checking back for the He 280 profiles.... ;)

Offline Talos

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Re: Talos' Profiles - He 100 and He 280
« Reply #162 on: July 27, 2013, 03:12:32 AM »
I'll just keep checking back for the He 280 profiles.... ;)

I really do need to work on the line art for that one, yes. It's fairly well-progressed (you can see it in the center of the size comp), but needs to be finished.

Offline M.A.D

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Re: Talos' Profiles - He 100 and He 280
« Reply #163 on: July 28, 2013, 11:40:45 AM »
The GD-53 Golden Dragon radar in the AIDC F-CK-1 Ching-kuo is also based on the  AN/APG-67 and the aircraft is in much the same class as the F-17 so maybe that can be another source of inspiration for your radome design?




Very nice job!!
Would like to see this AIDC F-CK-1 in RAAF colours and markings ;)

M.A.D

Offline Talos

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Re: Talos' Profiles - He 100 and He 280
« Reply #164 on: July 28, 2013, 12:06:54 PM »
The GD-53 Golden Dragon radar in the AIDC F-CK-1 Ching-kuo is also based on the  AN/APG-67 and the aircraft is in much the same class as the F-17 so maybe that can be another source of inspiration for your radome design?

Very nice job!!
Would like to see this AIDC F-CK-1 in RAAF colours and markings ;)

M.A.D

Not one of mine! That's just something Greg linked as inspiration for the F-17 Cobra.

Offline dy031101

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Re: Talos' Profiles - He 100 and He 280
« Reply #165 on: August 10, 2013, 09:43:18 AM »
http://i.imgur.com/qUhx4pE.jpg


That episode left me fuming (since the P-39/P-63 family is one of my favourites)  ;D

Okay okay, the story, being what it is......

==========================================================

Am I seeing a T-2/F-1 in the future?   ???
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline Logan Hartke

  • High priest in the black arts of profiling...
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Re: Talos' Profiles - He 100 and He 280
« Reply #166 on: August 10, 2013, 11:00:05 AM »
http://i.imgur.com/qUhx4pE.jpg


That episode left me fuming (since the P-39/P-63 family is one of my favourites)  ;D


Don't worry, Talos and I might get some What If revenge on the Japanese soon enough.   ;)

Cheers,

Logan

Offline dy031101

  • Yuri Fanboy and making cute stuff practical- at least that's the plan anyway
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Re: Talos' Profiles - He 100 and He 280
« Reply #167 on: August 10, 2013, 11:49:10 AM »
Don't worry, Talos and I might get some What If revenge on the Japanese soon enough.   ;)

I need to hurry up and buy a replacement PC and a laptop chair so I, too, can get back to action (to finish what I started for the naval GB)......

(I haven't got a desk in my new house yet.)

To finish it, I'll need to finish up the line art for both P-77s and color them and the Japanese fighter, which I need to get a proper designation. It's called the Harurashi.

If I remember correctly, most if not all Japanese indigenous aircraft in that show are made by a fictional Taizen Aviation Industry company.  So my guess is that Harurashi would likely be designated "N[insert type number here]T"?
« Last Edit: August 10, 2013, 11:50:50 AM by dy031101 »
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline Talos

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Re: Talos' Profiles - He 100 and He 280
« Reply #168 on: August 10, 2013, 12:00:23 PM »
That episode left me fuming (since the P-39/P-63 family is one of my favourites)  ;D

Okay okay, the story, being what it is......

==========================================================

Am I seeing a T-2/F-1 in the future?   ???

T-2/F-1 and T-4 if Damien has his way...

I'm a big fan of the P-39/63 family too, as I was telling Logan yesterday, actually.


If I remember correctly, most if not all Japanese indigenous aircraft in that show are made by a fictional Taizen Aviation Industry company.  So my guess is that Harurashi would likely be designated "N[insert type number here]T"?

Yes, that would make the most sense.

Offline Damian

  • Some of his profiles take longer to do than kits I've made...
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Re: Talos' Profiles - He 100 and He 280
« Reply #169 on: August 10, 2013, 09:04:22 PM »
That episode left me fuming (since the P-39/P-63 family is one of my favourites)  ;D

Okay okay, the story, being what it is......

==========================================================

Am I seeing a T-2/F-1 in the future?   ???

T-2/F-1 and T-4 if Damien has his way...

I'm a big fan of the P-39/63 family too, as I was telling Logan yesterday, actually.


If I remember correctly, most if not all Japanese indigenous aircraft in that show are made by a fictional Taizen Aviation Industry company.  So my guess is that Harurashi would likely be designated "N[insert type number here]T"?

Yes, that would make the most sense.

Well I already have the T-4, one of my first vectors so may need a little refining :)

As for the F-1/T-2 I may do it myself, that way I get it before I turn 40!  ;D
Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc

Offline Talos

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Re: Talos' Profiles - He 100 and He 280
« Reply #170 on: August 16, 2013, 11:18:28 PM »
Well I already have the T-4, one of my first vectors so may need a little refining :)

As for the F-1/T-2 I may do it myself, that way I get it before I turn 40!  ;D


Oy, you'll get it when you get it.  :P


I finished up the main line art for the profile Logan and I are working on for the GB, so I fiddled with this for a while since I'm trying to work up the courage to do the next portion for that profile (you'll understand when we post it and mum's the word until then).




Offline ChernayaAkula

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Re: Talos' Profiles - He 100 and He 280
« Reply #171 on: August 16, 2013, 11:55:54 PM »
*excited*

Cheers,
Moritz

"The appropriate response to reality is to go insane!"

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Talos' Profiles - He 100 and He 280
« Reply #172 on: August 17, 2013, 03:57:11 AM »
Make that two of us

All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline Logan Hartke

  • High priest in the black arts of profiling...
  • Rivet-counting whiffer
Re: Talos' Profiles - He 100 and He 280
« Reply #173 on: August 17, 2013, 12:53:49 PM »
I love that gif.  As far as the profile we're doing, it's almost done.  I really think you guys are going to like it a lot.  I think the subject is going to be really popular, but I will give you a bit of a hint.  I wouldn't be surprised if half of you have probably never heard of it before, yet it's going to be very familiar nonetheless.

Cheers,

Logan

Offline dy031101

  • Yuri Fanboy and making cute stuff practical- at least that's the plan anyway
  • Prefers Guns And Tanks Over Swords And Magic
Re: Talos' Profiles - He 100 and He 280
« Reply #174 on: August 17, 2013, 06:26:57 PM »

Would like to see this AIDC F-CK-1 in RAAF colours and markings ;)

Not one of mine! That's just something Greg linked as inspiration for the F-17 Cobra.

Come to think about it, that's probably the closest thing to a proper portrayal of production F-CK-1 over the internet......

So......

(Of course your existing projects come first- can put it behind everything else you're gonna do in terms of priority.)
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?