Commonwealth Solidarity, RAAF deployments to NATO

[raafif]

take a Rotodyne, uprate engines & replace rotor with an AWACs saucer ? (instead of a Tracer for 1950/60s)

[Volkodav]

Like this one with beaver tail doors, folding rotor blades and collapsing rotormast in service with the RAN?



Westland Rotodyne Mk.20 - RAN FAA COD aircraft, 1969
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That is truly impressive, a fleet of them definitely would require a carrier

[Volkodav]

Here's a thought how about following Suez political and public anger with the US, in particular with Eisenhower, resulted in the UK withdrawing from NATO and reinforcing ties with the Commonwealth.  At the same time the UK defaulted on their debts to the US based on the US dishonouring a number of agreements, including sharing nuclear weapons technology while the US benefited from UK jet engine, radar and carrier technology.  The relationship was seen as very one sided where Britain and the dominions had been left to fight the Axis powers on their own, suffering significant (almost catastrophic) damage while the US economy boomed.  Right or wrong this created a lot of resentment, as well as a significant amount of distrust, within the UK and the Dominions, and was the key to stronger, mutually beneficial relationships between members of a stronger Commonwealth.

Possible consequences could include, apart from the obvious of buying more existing British gear, the completion of a number of cancelled projects, the refinement of other "bodged designs" and as the UK completes things like a new class of fleet carrier in the early 60s, the transfer of the Centaurs, Victorious, Eagle and / or Ark Royal to the dominions.

[GTX_Admin]

Hmmm…interesting.  Maybe one could spin this into a resurgent Commonwealth scenario.  Would be particularly interesting in the context of the existing Cold War.  One could end up with the following power blocks:

• USA - assuming Australia & Canada go the Commonwealth route, who would be with the US?  Japan and Sth Korea probably.  Maybe West Germany and some of the other European countries?
• USSR & Warsaw Pact
• British Commonwealth - UK, Australia, Canada, India + the rest.  What about France?  Would they also decide to join in here following the Suez crisis of would they go the USA side? Maybe they and Europe form their own alliance or maybe they just stay non-aligned
• China and the rest

This could provide a very interesting power play and many modelling options.

[Silver Fox]

Where's the tilt-Rotodyne? :)

Merge Dynavert and Rotodyne and you get one interesting beast!

[Volkodav]

Hmmm…interesting.  Maybe one could spin this into a resurgent Commonwealth scenario.  Would be particularly interesting in the context of the existing Cold War.  One could end up with the following power blocks:

• USA - assuming Australia & Canada go the Commonwealth route, who would be with the US?  Japan and Sth Korea probably.  Maybe West Germany and some of the other European countries?
• USSR & Warsaw Pact
• British Commonwealth - UK, Australia, Canada, India + the rest.  What about France?  Would they also decide to join in here following the Suez crisis of would they go the USA side? Maybe they and Europe form their own alliance or maybe they just stay non-aligned
• China and the rest

This could provide a very interesting power play and many modelling options.

Well France actually withdrew from NATO during the 60s and developed their stand alone deterrent.

[GTX_Admin]

Well France actually withdrew from NATO during the 60s and developed their stand alone deterrent.

To be technically correct, France did not withdraw from NATO.  Rather, they simply withdrew from the NATO military integrated command structure.

Back to the topic at hand:  my comments about France in this context were that if one were to use the Suez Crisis as the defining trigger, then one might also see France either break fully with both the US and UK or potentially link up with the UK/Commonwealth given similar dissatisfaction with US policy etc.

[Rickshaw]

With participation of the Commonwealth in NATO, how would you overcome Commonwealth dissatisfaction with EU agricultural policies?  When the UK entered the Common Market, Commonwealth agricultural exports suddenly got hit with massive tariffs.  This hurt most Commonwealth nations quite hard, particularly Australia and New Zealand.  Effectively wiped out the Tasmanian Apple industry IIRC.   Dominions might be less willing to contribute to the defence of nations which treated them in this way.

[Volkodav]

Well the main treaties around the EEC weren't signed until the late 60s and the UK didn't join until 1973 so the scenario still stands until that time.  Continued integration of the commonwealth, especially if the UK maintained their presence east of Suez, may have delayed there membership into the EEC.

  So basically an Australian presence in Europe as part of NATO could have continued through until the late 60s before the economic effect of the EEC really began to bight.  This gives us fifteen years of interesting wiffs before Australia pulls the plug, although another option is Australia could be offered defacto membership of the EEC based on the long, military and economic association.

[GTX_Admin]

Or potentially the development of the Commonwealth as a more significant power block could have one of many possible consequences here:

• The European Common Market does not include the UK or its Commonwealth linkages - basically, they say "thanks but no thanks…we've already got our club"
• The greater influence of the UK allows it to bend the Common market more to its favour and by default to that of its Commonwealth
• The mainland Europeans get caught up in the different power plays and deliberately not involve the UK since they are part of the Commonwealth power block...

[Volkodav]

Yes I like that.  Maybe the UK could become the interface between the Commonwealth while the individual Commonwealth nations became the primary gateway to their regions. i.e. most global trade ended up being conducted through the British Commonwealth rather than directly as it was easier and cheaper to use the existing networks than develop new ones.  For example Canada for US trade and Australia for China, only Japan would be exclusively US although they may choose to use Australia or Canada to get into Europe.

The secret would be not getting greedy and making it more beneficial to cut out the middle man, make sure the arrangements were always mutually beneficent enough that no one could see the point of changing the status quo.

[Old Wombat]

Ah, now we enter the realm of the "Commonwealth Parliament"!