Author Topic: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration (Read 65209 times)

GTX_Admin · « **on:** December 17, 2011, 04:16:14 AM »

Hi folks,

Some of my '09 ideas from over the years:

Floatplane:

Twin engined:

Bf109M2:

Curtiss 109:

Extra Range option:

Let's see your ideas!

Regards,

Greg

BadersBusCompany · « **Reply #1 on:** December 17, 2011, 10:05:39 PM »

That B109M2 is fecking awesome Greg!!!

sequoiaranger · « **Reply #2 on:** December 18, 2011, 01:41:58 AM »

I have made several "navalized" Bf-109T's,

but one of these days will make my "ultimate" seagoing 109. It will have, however, a RADIAL engine in the same vein as the Japanese Ki-61-to-Ki-100!

Way back in the day, I had made a 1/72 "master" of a Ki-100 for a cottage-industry model company (Model-Aire International--"M.A.I."), but the company folded before the plane came out, and of course Hasegawa came out with a fine version themselves. But I still have the original master, and will incorporate that into my "ultimate 109". I am using a Monogram Snap-Tite 109 for the basis, as it is 1/64 or so, and thus is "roomier" and will allow extra length with add-ons without looking out-of-proportion. (sigh) Don't look for it anytime soon, as I have a long list of projects with greater precedence.

(Will include Me-109H wings, and Me-209 V5 tall tail)

GTX_Admin · « **Reply #3 on:** December 18, 2011, 03:10:49 AM »

Quote from: sequoiaranger on December 18, 2011, 01:41:58 AM

but one of these days will make my "ultimate" seagoing 109. It will have, however, a RADIAL engine in the same vein as the Japanese Ki-61-to-Ki-100!

Or maybe the Bf 109X:

Regards,

Greg

dy031101 · « **Reply #4 on:** December 18, 2011, 03:17:57 AM »

Quote from: GTX_Admin on December 17, 2011, 04:16:14 AM

Hi folks,

Some of my '09 ideas from over the years:

Floatplane...

Found this here.

GTX_Admin · « **Reply #5 on:** December 18, 2011, 03:24:03 AM »

Quote from: BadersBusCompany on December 17, 2011, 10:05:39 PM

That B109M2 is fecking awesome Greg!!!

The story behind it is that the German Ardennes offensive was successful and that the war essentially went on until '46. However, whilst new jets were being developed/introduced in limited numbers, it was still up to the existing '109s and '190s to carry the burden. In the case of the '190 it was the D variants and the Ta-152. For the '109, it became the M variant. This retained the DB 605DB/DC of the late 'Gs/'Ks but now added contra props, better vision canopy (based upon that for Me-262) and also had an armament of a single 30mm Motorkanone + twin 13 mm MG 131s.

The lower sub-variant also had a rocket booster in the tail.

Regards,

Greg

GTX_Admin · « **Reply #6 on:** December 18, 2011, 03:29:32 AM »

Quote from: dy031101 on December 18, 2011, 03:17:57 AM

Quote from: GTX_Admin on December 17, 2011, 04:16:14 AM
Hi folks,

Some of my '09 ideas from over the years:

Floatplane...

Found this here.

My that looks familiar. First I have seen it - I am not surprised though that people come up with similar ideas. I was looking for a different variation on the already known Bf-109W:

regards,

Greg

sequoiaranger · « **Reply #7 on:** December 18, 2011, 05:42:41 AM »

When Adolf Galland rudely insinuated to Georing that he would rather have a squadron of Spitfires with which to go into battle, Georing decided to "Punish" Galland's squadron for that impudent remark. He had discovered that some mechanics had successfully mated a Diamler-benz engine and cowl to a captured, flyable Spitfire airframe,
so insited on fifteen more to outfit Galland's entire squadron!

An unintentional satisfaction with this model is that it demonstrates the similarities in the Bf-109 and Spitfire when given only a glance (for recognition). Because of the well-documented, and often modeled subject, the viewer's eyes looks at the coloring and markings and starts seeing Bf-109 before his "tricked" mind catches sight of something "un-Bf-109" about it. I included Galland's famous "telescope" gunsight.

The Big Gimper · « **Reply #8 on:** December 19, 2011, 07:57:28 PM »

I love tip tanks. Thanks for the inspiration.

If it pleases the artist, may I steal his idea for my next Bf-109 build?

GTX_Admin · « **Reply #9 on:** December 20, 2011, 02:02:50 AM »

Go for it!

finsrin · « **Reply #10 on:** January 01, 2012, 02:51:22 PM »

What the heck. Clipped wingtips, looks even faster to me.

Stargazer2006 · « **Reply #11 on:** January 03, 2012, 09:41:01 PM »

Quote from: finsrin on January 01, 2012, 02:51:22 PM

What the heck. Clipped wingtips, looks even faster to me.

Yeah. And I'd increase the tail area too.

GTX_Admin · « **Reply #12 on:** January 04, 2012, 02:46:49 AM »

So, will the new Trumpeter Me509 kit provide a good basis for a Yokosuka R2Y Keiun?

GTX_Admin · « **Reply #13 on:** January 05, 2012, 05:44:32 PM »

Some more Me509 ideas:

Night fighter variant - probably need second cockpit
Twinned Me509Z
Turboprop variant
Carrier based variant
Captured variant
Non German variants - RAF, USAF...
Jet or Jet & Prop variant

Other idea?

Maverick · « **Reply #14 on:** January 05, 2012, 09:03:21 PM »

About the only one you haven't covered is a post-War French version in Indochina.

Regards,

John

sequoiaranger · « **Reply #15 on:** January 05, 2012, 11:56:57 PM »

>About the only one you haven't covered is a post-War French version in Indochina.<

Or a post-war, Merlin-powered Hispano HA-1113 (Buchon II?) version for Spain?

jcf · « **Reply #16 on:** January 06, 2012, 03:19:00 AM »

Me 109TL

from FLUG-REVUE, June 1961.

RussC · « **Reply #17 on:** January 06, 2012, 06:23:12 AM »

Quote from: finsrin on January 01, 2012, 02:51:22 PM

What the heck. Clipped wingtips, looks even faster to me.

Watch out if Tophe sees that one!

This twin is the most interesting for me of all the 109 derivatives, but they are all a handsome collection. One additional that comes to mind might be a German take on the Yak 15, where you take a 109 and undersling forward a BMW 003.

Maverick · « **Reply #18 on:** January 06, 2012, 06:54:41 AM »

I believe one of the 109TL concepts had that very idea. I can't recall the engine used, but I remember Unicraft had a kit of it and it appeared on the Luft46 website.

Regards,

John

GTX_Admin · « **Reply #19 on:** January 06, 2012, 02:14:08 PM »

Quote from: Maverick on January 06, 2012, 06:54:41 AM

I believe one of the 109TL concepts had that very idea. I can't recall the engine used, but I remember Unicraft had a kit of it and it appeared on the Luft46 website.

Regards,

John

John,

I believe you are referring to this one:

Unicraft do it in both 1/72 and 1/48. I am not sure if it is a fictional one though...not that it really matters too much to us.

Regards,

Greg

Maverick · « **Reply #20 on:** January 06, 2012, 08:34:20 PM »

That's the girl. Luft 46 makes no mention it, but as you say that's moot.

Regards,

John

Daryl J. · « **Reply #21 on:** January 08, 2012, 10:57:54 AM »

I have underway a 1/48 Airfix Bf-109E-7 and a Tamiya Bf-109E-4 both featuring a cloth wing and one a cloth rear fuselage with horizontal stringers.
To be finished ad indefinitum.

GTX_Admin · « **Reply #22 on:** January 08, 2012, 11:18:48 AM »

I have a plan to do a Bf-109E-4 with air-to-air refuelling...

elmayerle · « **Reply #23 on:** January 09, 2012, 07:06:55 AM »

Quote from: GTX_Admin on January 04, 2012, 02:46:49 AM

So, will the new Trumpeter Me509 kit provide a good basis for a Yokosuka R2Y Keiun?

Likely not as the R2Y1 was rather larger, being powered by a coupled engine made from two of the license-built DB601 engines.

elmayerle · « **Reply #24 on:** January 09, 2012, 07:12:51 AM »

Quote from: jcf on January 06, 2012, 03:19:00 AM

Me 109TL

Back in my files, I've got an update of the article I did for the Luft '46 website on the Me109TL as well as drawings of of the different versions. Finally usage was by the Israelis of Czech-built versions re-engined with Beryl engines obtained from the UK (they bought the entire program when the UK didn't want it). I'll have to see if I can find and scan the three-views I did the "old fashioned way" by copy, cut, and paste.

elmayerle · « **Reply #25 on:** January 09, 2012, 07:16:05 AM »

One thought on the single-float variant, you want that center strut to go back far enough to pick up the main landing gear trunnions as it eliminates a lot of un-necessary redesign to carry the float loads.

gofy · « **Reply #26 on:** March 26, 2012, 06:56:04 AM »

Quote

Or a post-war, Merlin-powered Hispano HA-1113 (Buchon II?) version for Spain?

or a Griffon on the 109, US or RAF test markings. 1943?

elmayerle · « **Reply #27 on:** March 26, 2012, 07:14:04 AM »

Since it can now be done in 1/48, how about a Me509Z? I suspect one could find the necessary bits to do it in 1/72, too.

ChernayaAkula · « **Reply #28 on:** August 05, 2012, 05:42:47 AM »

^ That is soooo sexy!

The Big Gimper · « **Reply #29 on:** April 23, 2013, 06:29:24 PM »

Messerschmitt Me 309-XIII/246

Could be based on this Huma kit?

The Me 709 has already been built by Dizzyfugu

Note: Yes I know the 109 was called the Bf 109 but Willy M is the common theme here.

Jeffry Fontaine · « **Reply #30 on:** April 23, 2013, 10:24:05 PM »

The 309 looks like it belongs in the line up at the air races.

Frank3k · « **Reply #31 on:** April 23, 2013, 11:33:43 PM »

Huma also made an Me 609. I have the bagged version and it was one of their low pressure injection kits.

jcf · « **Reply #32 on:** April 24, 2013, 12:02:03 AM »

The 109 was referred to intechangably as the Bf 109 and Me 109 in both Messerschmitt and RLM
documents of the period, sometimes as both in a single document. So any numpty that gives
anyone grief over using Me 109, doesn't actually know what they are talking about.

The XIII/246 looks like a decent basis for a speed record attempt or cross-country race aircraft,
however the lack of forward vision would make pylon racing problematic. You'd probably want to
crop the wings, as well.

Rickshaw · « **Reply #33 on:** April 24, 2013, 02:01:43 PM »

Generally the designation Bf109 is correct up to the point where the Bayerische Flugzeugwerke became the Messerschmitt AG on July 11, 1938, whereas the designation changed to Me109. However, as you note Jon, the nomenclature was all over the place with the two designations used interchangeably both by the company and officialdom. Registration plates though, which were collected assiduously by RAF intelligence from wrecks throughout the war saw the steady change from Bf109 through to Me109 as newer ones were created. Even so, by wars end you apparently still saw "Bf109"s.

GTX_Admin · « **Reply #34 on:** April 25, 2013, 03:07:49 AM »

Damn!!! If you can't trust the NAZIs to keep the paperwork/terminology correct, who can you...

Rickshaw · « **Reply #35 on:** April 25, 2013, 10:52:21 AM »

Quote from: GTX_Admin on April 25, 2013, 03:07:49 AM

Damn!!! If you can't trust the NAZIs to keep the paperwork/terminology correct, who can you...

Reading the minutes of the Luftwaffe Ministry planning meetings for the Bf110/Me210/Me410/Ar240 which have been published in a book makes interesting reading. Now, these were the blokes apparently in charge of the whole shebang but they keep making mistakes in the nomenclature and referring to aircraft like the Ar240 and the Me210 well after those projects had been abandoned. Erhard Milch really disliked Willy Messerschmitt and that also comes out in the minutes. So, it's no wonder the people near the bottom got it wrong as well.

GTX_Admin · « **Reply #36 on:** September 29, 2013, 06:30:20 AM »

Something different - bare metal Bf109:

taiidantomcat · « **Reply #37 on:** September 29, 2013, 09:26:01 AM »

Quote from: GTX_Admin on September 29, 2013, 06:30:20 AM

Something different - bare metal Bf109:

Clearly the colors are all wrong on that. RLM Bare metal does not look like that at all

ysi_maniac · « **Reply #38 on:** January 03, 2014, 11:53:48 PM »

Comunist Buchón and Co.

ysi_maniac · « **Reply #39 on:** January 04, 2014, 02:30:48 PM »

The Big Gimper · « **Reply #40 on:** January 04, 2014, 08:25:41 PM »

Quote from: ysi_maniac on January 04, 2014, 02:30:48 PM

I like this. Will save it for a later build.

GTX_Admin · « **Reply #41 on:** January 05, 2014, 02:53:03 AM »

Hmmm…forced amalgamation of Messerschmitt and Focke-Wulf?

ysi_maniac · « **Reply #42 on:** January 05, 2014, 03:47:05 AM »

Quote from: JoseFern on August 05, 2012, 05:01:25 AM

What a beauty!!!

GTX_Admin · « **Reply #43 on:** January 05, 2014, 04:04:27 AM »

Something I just found online by accident - the "Messerschmitt Me309 Mach"

GTX_Admin · « **Reply #44 on:** January 05, 2014, 04:17:12 AM »

Here is the original mini-story behind the Bf-109M series shown on the first page (and reproduced below):

"Following the success of Unternehmen Wacht am Rhein, and the sudden death of Stalin which halted the Soviet advance in the East, the German forces found themselves defending their own borders. Whilst the new jets/rockets were promising, the tried and tested Bf-109 and Fw-190 versions still formed the bulk of the Luftwaffe’s fighting force. In the case of the Fw-190 it was the Ta-152 series that now ruled. Alongside it was the new Bf-109M (“Martha”) series – the Bf-109M-2 being the first variant to enter wide-spread service.

The Marthas were perhaps the greatest change since the Bf-109F/G series were introduced. Based upon the Bf-109K, the M-2 was fitted with a DB-605L engine with a two-stage supercharger and MW-50 water-methanol injection giving just over 2000HP. This drove a new 6 bladed contra-rotating prop which not only gave greater thrust (speeds in excess of 725 km/hr (450 mph) were regularly attained), but also helped reduce the take-off/landing difficulties long associated with the Bf-109 series (a major aid given some of the inexperienced pilots now being pressed into service). Standard armament consisted of a single MK-108 30 mm Motorkanone firing through the propeller hub and twin MG-151/15 15 mm cowling guns. The greatest visible difference however was the new cut down rear decking/all round bubble canopy. Copying the ideas already seen in the similar late war Spitfire series, this was introduced at the request of pilots who argued that even the so-called “Galland Hood” of the late G/K series wasn’t sufficient. This new canopy was similar in basic design to that developed for the new Me-262 but was obviously smaller to match the contours of the smaller Bf-109. It also featured cockpit pressurization.

By the time the war ended in February 1946, over 1200 of the new Martha series had been produced."

GTX_Admin · « **Reply #45 on:** January 05, 2014, 04:27:00 AM »

Some found online here:

uncle les · « **Reply #46 on:** January 07, 2014, 07:23:38 AM »

I like those last three.. Heck, I like most of what I see here, but that last one in the Spanish markings would be good Expo Experten "yeah, I remember that one " fodder...

ysi_maniac · « **Reply #47 on:** January 17, 2014, 11:37:47 PM »

Quote from: GTX_Admin on January 05, 2014, 04:04:27 AM

Something I just found online by accident - the "Messerschmitt Me309 Mach"

I love this

GTX_Admin · « **Reply #48 on:** February 03, 2014, 03:24:31 AM »

BMF anyone?

GTX_Admin · « **Reply #49 on:** January 31, 2015, 04:55:54 AM »

Interesting: Conformal tanks on Bf-109E:

GTX_Admin · « **Reply #50 on:** June 16, 2015, 06:04:46 PM »

Does anyone know if you can get either a kit or decals of the Finnish post war Bf-109 racers ( e.g. Below) in 1/48?

Modelnut53 · « **Reply #51 on:** June 02, 2016, 07:02:08 PM »

This was influenced by some drawings from this page. The engines and main undercarriage are off a Me 410 and the tailplane is off a Zero.

The Big Gimper · « **Reply #52 on:** June 02, 2016, 07:36:23 PM »

This is so sweet!! A German Whirlwind!!!! :)

GTX_Admin · « **Reply #53 on:** June 04, 2016, 04:37:06 AM »

Kind of looks like it should be a high altitude bird.

GTX_Admin · « **Reply #54 on:** September 17, 2016, 06:24:02 AM »

Random idea: Chinese Nationalist Bf-109 - probably E model or earlier.

perttime · « **Reply #55 on:** October 09, 2016, 02:33:26 AM »

I didn't know there really was a Bf 109 with wide track landing gear...
http://megalomaniacbore.blogspot.fi/2014/10/aircraft-history-bf109.html

http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Bf-109D/Messerschmitt-Bf-109/images/Prototype-Bf-109V3Messerschmitt-Bf-109F1-prototype-WNr-5642-testing-the-wide-track-main-landing-gear-01.jpg

elmayerle · « **Reply #56 on:** October 09, 2016, 10:22:47 PM »

I believe the gear was fixed down as it was a testbed only and changing the design to incorporate this gear would have badly disrupted production.

Vuk · « **Reply #57 on:** October 10, 2016, 01:17:49 AM »

According to what I found, this wasn't Bf 109V-3, but Bf 109V-31, a serial F-2 equipped with wide track undercarriage and with a retractable belly radiator, as a test-bed for Me-309

http://www.letletlet-warplanes.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Bf109G.pdf

(page 5 in a file, page 8 in a booklet)

GTX_Admin · « **Reply #58 on:** October 10, 2016, 03:12:33 AM »

Quote from: elmayerle on October 09, 2016, 10:22:47 PM

I believe the gear was fixed down as it was a testbed only and changing the design to incorporate this gear would have badly disrupted production.

Indeed.

Quote from: Vuk on October 10, 2016, 01:17:49 AM

According to what I found, this wasn't Bf 109V-3, but Bf 109V-31, a serial F-2 equipped with wide track undercarriage and with a retractable belly radiator, as a test-bed for Me-309

http://www.letletlet-warplanes.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Bf109G.pdf

(page 5 in a file, page 8 in a booklet)

That's what I understood too.

You can actually get a kit of this in 1/72:

perttime · « **Reply #59 on:** October 11, 2016, 12:02:38 AM »

Quote from: Vuk on October 10, 2016, 01:17:49 AM

According to what I found, this wasn't Bf 109V-3, but Bf 109V-31...

V3 did sound like something too early for this....

GTX_Admin · « **Reply #60 on:** October 11, 2016, 03:41:41 AM »

Yeah, the V-3 was a tad different:

Though you can get a kit of this too:

GTX_Admin · « **Reply #61 on:** October 11, 2016, 04:10:50 AM »

Speaking of odd Bf109s, try the V48 with V tail:

And yes, one can get kits and/or conversions for this variant.

GTX_Admin · « **Reply #62 on:** October 26, 2016, 04:02:23 AM »

Does anyone know of a 1/48 kit or conversion for the Bf109H?

The Big Gimper · « **Reply #63 on:** October 26, 2016, 05:10:31 AM »

I think you are out of luck Greg. I reviewed Scalemates and I saw every model/conversion but the H.

GTX_Admin · « **Reply #64 on:** December 04, 2016, 05:29:53 AM »

Cool artwork found online:

ysi_maniac · « **Reply #65 on:** August 05, 2018, 06:05:23 PM »

Me-109 with Me-163 bits

GTX_Admin · « **Reply #66 on:** August 06, 2018, 04:19:44 AM »

Different

ysi_maniac · « **Reply #67 on:** September 06, 2018, 10:46:52 AM »

Crossing FW-190 and Me-109K

ysi_maniac · « **Reply #68 on:** September 10, 2018, 09:12:02 PM »

Hybrid Fighters

ysi_maniac · « **Reply #69 on:** September 21, 2018, 04:37:59 PM »

Avia S1999 in Israel service

ysi_maniac · « **Reply #70 on:** October 01, 2018, 09:01:55 PM »

What if Bf 109 received Jumo 213, like Fw190?

Would you increase tail fin area? Would you lengthen wings?

GTX_Admin · « **Reply #71 on:** October 01, 2018, 11:15:20 PM »

ysi_maniac · « **Reply #72 on:** October 24, 2018, 09:06:18 PM »

Mixing Tamiya 1/100 Me-262 and Heller 1/72 (undersized IMO) Bf-109

GTX_Admin · « **Reply #73 on:** December 20, 2018, 02:10:50 AM »

Found online:

elmayerle · « **Reply #74 on:** December 20, 2018, 02:16:36 AM »

Quote from: ysi_maniac on October 24, 2018, 09:06:18 PM

Mixing Tamiya 1/100 Me-262 and Heller 1/72 (undersized IMO) Bf-109

Lower right one looks very similar to the proposed Me109TL that Planet produced a resin kit of.

GTX_Admin · « **Reply #75 on:** December 20, 2018, 02:21:12 AM »

And Antares in 1/48:

GTX_Admin · « **Reply #76 on:** August 20, 2019, 02:18:08 AM »

Quote from: The Big Gimper on October 26, 2016, 05:10:31 AM

I think you are out of luck Greg. I reviewed Scalemates and I saw every model/conversion but the H.

Found one:

GTX_Admin · « **Reply #77 on:** December 25, 2019, 02:37:15 AM »

Given the Chinese Nationalist Air Force did use quite a bit of German equipment (including Heinkel He 111s, Henschel Hs 123s), perhaps the following could have happened: