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A place to discuss crew served weapons normally seen in use and organic to infantry units for direct and indirect fire support. Crew served weapons such as the mortar, recoilless rifle, machine gun, and anti-tank guided missile launcher systems and associated equipment.
I needed a place to post this little gem that I found today while reviewing a rather old book on ammunition.
What caught my eye in the attached image was:
1. It is a WOMBAT 120mm RR weapon
2. Ammunition is correctly displayed with the individual rounds still inside of the container with just the base of the cartridge exposed for access.
3. The gunner is peering through an not often seen A/N TVS-5 Crew Served Weapons Night Vision Sight (aka "Starlight Scope").
Feel free to add other crew served weapons to the topic for discussion.
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Is that a spotting rifle mounted above the RR? The one in the background is a little more apparent.
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Yep, just part hidden by the scope.
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fit a couple of these to some vehicles:
XM307 Advanced Crew Served Weapon (was originally developed under the OCSW or Objective Crew Served Weapon project but cancelled in 2007):
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2e/XM307-01.jpg/1498px-XM307-01.jpg)
It was 25mm.
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Is that a spotting rifle mounted above the RR? The one in the background is a little more apparent.
M-8C Spotting Rifle
http://www.warboats.org/mst2bremmer/stoner_ord_notes/stonerhtml/RECOILLESS_RIFLE.htm (http://www.warboats.org/mst2bremmer/stoner_ord_notes/stonerhtml/RECOILLESS_RIFLE.htm)
If suitably motivated, the spotting rifle cartridges can be made from cut-down .50 cal Browning brass.
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M-8C Spotting Rifle <snip> If suitably motivated, the spotting rifle cartridges can be made from cut-down .50 cal Browning brass.
If suitably motivated the M8C Spotting Rifle would be replaced with a laser rangefinder and a suitable auto-ranging weapons telescope to adjust for elevation/azimuth :)
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I'd never heard of the Buzogányvető before, until I tripped over it on Shapeways. Comes in 1/72nd, 1/100th & 1/144th.
https://www.shapeways.com/product/SMDYVS665/1-72nd-scale-44m-buzoganyveto?optionId=59924635 (https://www.shapeways.com/product/SMDYVS665/1-72nd-scale-44m-buzoganyveto?optionId=59924635)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_44M (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_44M)
http://ftr.wot-news.com/2014/04/02/hungarian-toldi-ii-lt-with-44m-buzoganyveto-anti-tank-rocket-launcher/ (http://ftr.wot-news.com/2014/04/02/hungarian-toldi-ii-lt-with-44m-buzoganyveto-anti-tank-rocket-launcher/)
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I'd never heard of the Buzogányvető before, until I tripped over it on Shapeways. Comes in 1/72nd, 1/100th & 1/144th.
[url]https://www.shapeways.com/product/SMDYVS665/1-72nd-scale-44m-buzoganyveto?optionId=59924635[/url] ([url]https://www.shapeways.com/product/SMDYVS665/1-72nd-scale-44m-buzoganyveto?optionId=59924635[/url])
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_44M[/url] ([url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_44M[/url])
[url]http://ftr.wot-news.com/2014/04/02/hungarian-toldi-ii-lt-with-44m-buzoganyveto-anti-tank-rocket-launcher/[/url] ([url]http://ftr.wot-news.com/2014/04/02/hungarian-toldi-ii-lt-with-44m-buzoganyveto-anti-tank-rocket-launcher/[/url])
First time I read about it was in Colin Gee's Red Gambit series.
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Posted primarily for the TOW wedged into an MRAP turret, but also for Grunt-level innovation.
https://taskandpurpose.com/5-battlefield-innovations-that-came-from-the-rank-and-file-troops/ (https://taskandpurpose.com/5-battlefield-innovations-that-came-from-the-rank-and-file-troops/)
#5 can also be down with the old ALICE pack (https://www.armysurplusworld.com/us-gi-military-surplus-used-medium-olive-drab-alice-pack-16777) and 750 rounds 7.62NATO belted in the main compartment for the M60. Ask me hows I knows dat.
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Both found via the "Shitty Technicals" subredit on reddit. LINK! (https://www.reddit.com/r/shittytechnicals/)
Greek patrol boat armed with M40 recoilless rifle, 1980s
(https://preview.redd.it/i5sjiathb2v21.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=469fa8a1774b15dd9c01d760c43116fcd64b2343)
SOURCE (https://www.reddit.com/r/WarshipPorn/comments/bifiit/greek_patrol_boat_armed_with_m40_recoilless_rifle/)
Mortar bike
(https://i.pinimg.com/564x/57/08/45/5708452765c1dd324fcfa3a3c1f084b4.jpg)
SOURCE (https://www.reddit.com/r/shittytechnicals/comments/bigzrm/mortar_bike_non_shitty_sunday/)
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That Mortar bike is cool.
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It looks like this 1/35 product from Zvezda:
(https://cdn3.volusion.com/bmfcy.fjqhr/v/vspfiles/photos/ZV3651-2.jpg)
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Shoot and Scoot...
Also do not forget the French Vespa 159 TAP (Troupes AéroPortées) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vespa_150_TAP) that is armed with a 75mm Recoilless Rifle used as the seat for the rider.
More at Wikipedia: (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3e/Vespa_militare2.JPG/300px-Vespa_militare2.JPG) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vespa_150_TAP)
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It looks like this 1/35 product from Zvezda:
([url]https://cdn3.volusion.com/bmfcy.fjqhr/v/vspfiles/photos/ZV3651-2.jpg[/url])
Exactly and here is the box:
(https://www.scalemates.com/products/img/0/0/5/103005-10244-pristine.jpg)
Nice find Frank.
You can also see much more on these in this pdf: http://www.russianiron.com/eafranke_ural/Part%20XVII%20Motorcycle-Mounted%20Mortars.pdf (http://www.russianiron.com/eafranke_ural/Part%20XVII%20Motorcycle-Mounted%20Mortars.pdf) - BTW can someone tell me what is shown on the Landing “Excelsior” page?
I really like this idea. It seems so elegant.
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Taking the above concept further, one idea I have had planned for years (and which I believe I have mentioned before) is to do a model of a West German Cold War (probably set in a '70s/'80s scenario) anti-tank motorcycle side car arrangement using something like a MILAN ATGW in the side car. The idea being that the team would operate in a short and scoot style way keeping ahead of Soviet tank hordes...
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In a similar vein:
Hungarian WW2 motorcycle with antitank rifle sidecar:
(https://i.pinimg.com/474x/46/6a/cd/466acd5e0042679dfe742791ad89be69.jpg)
Soviet M72 motorcycle with anti tank rifle:
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/92/b0/7c/92b07cf0bc9ae21e1356cfe3b91f1314.jpg)
Swiss Soldiers with 2.4cm (24x139mm) Tankbuchse 41 Semiauto Antitank Rifle in tow:
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d4/77/7d/d4777d0e5962598ef2deee77d410e4ac.png)
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Last image is actually Swiss Soldiers and that is a Swiss 2.4cm (24x139mm) Tankbuchse 41 Semiauto Antitank Rifle (https://www.forgottenweapons.com/swiss-tankbuchse-41-semiauto-antitank-rifle/). Html has video and history.
From Fandom > Gun Wiki > 24 mm Tankbüchse 41 (https://guns.fandom.com/wiki/24_mm_Tankb%C3%BCchse_41)
***added additional link on subject. - jjf
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Shoot and Scoot...
Also do not forget the French Vespa 159 TAP (Troupes AéroPortées) ([url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vespa_150_TAP[/url]) that is armed with a 75mm Recoilless Rifle used as the seat for the rider.
More at Wikipedia: ([url]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3e/Vespa_militare2.JPG/300px-Vespa_militare2.JPG[/url]) ([url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vespa_150_TAP[/url])
This is really small and I find the riding position amusing (look closely where the seat is):
(https://www.thevintagenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/19.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/B4JbNvh.jpg)
One can theoretically get a kit of it in 1/35 too:
(http://www.phpshopxml.com/client/azimut/img/AZI10045.jpg)
I say theoretically since it is a Azimut Limited Edition kit and thus nearly impossible to get any purchases from those thieves.
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Last image is actually Swiss Soldiers and that is a Swiss 2.4cm (24x139mm) Tankbuchse 41 Semiauto Antitank Rifle (https://www.forgottenweapons.com/swiss-tankbuchse-41-semiauto-antitank-rifle/). Html has video and history.
Thanks fo the correction - have now updated.
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The other "tell" was the helmets on the two soldiers :)
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More:
20mm Madsen:
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_TS-xzb12aSg/Ss70tr97suI/AAAAAAAADLM/sO03bl1g0p4/s1600/nimbus20mm_1.jpg)
(http://silverhawkauthor.com/images/site_graphics/Motorcycles/Motorcycle-with-Lewis-gun---MIKAN-No--3613174.jpg)
Answering my own question above, it seams as though this was a 37mm anti-tank gun being trialled - potentially over 400 of these were actually made:
(http://www.hdforums.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Russian01.jpg)
And one showing the earlier Mortar in use:
(http://i21.servimg.com/u/f21/16/14/02/21/72_i_a10.jpg)
From 1917 - Matchless Motorcycle with Machine Gun intended for Russian Army but not used:
(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/06/18/11/29BAED5300000578-3129593-image-m-25_1434625171655.jpg)
(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/06/18/12/29BAF44A00000578-3129593-image-m-27_1434625329513.jpg)
NYC Women's Machine Gun Squad Police Reserves 1918:
(https://external-preview.redd.it/_3UcaeLMioR6IlHjWgM7bg8G6kSqnZ-jTc3VC7M_lvk.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=b363967d1fc52b7c3c771498308be09a7d119ee3)
Ckm wz.30 mounted on a Sokol 1000 sidecar with handle and sights adapted for Anti Aircraft Use:
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-j3S-grhxoo8/Vsi5vEicaFI/AAAAAAAADbY/0nv3nsTacGc/s640/Soko%CC%81%C5%82_1000_z_CKM_przeciwlotniczym.jpg)
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Going back to the Hungarian one posted earlier, it seems there is an effort to produce a kit of this:
(https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/021/448/310/6ba322034d994cda68a61d4147175906_original.jpeg?ixlib=rb-2.0.0&crop=faces&w=1552&h=873&fit=crop&v=1527976879&auto=format&frame=1&q=92&s=2393f97fc087efe82b551b00d256d543)
See here: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/dogtagminiatures/28mm-ww2-hungarian-army/updates (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/dogtagminiatures/28mm-ww2-hungarian-army/updates)
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The more manageable Solothurn S-18/100 20mm AT/AM Weapon chambered in 20X105B is also avaialble from CMK under their "Blitz" product line.
Link: CMK (129-B35095) 1/35th scale WW2 Swiss Solothurn S-18/100 Anti Tank Rifle. (https://www.cmkkits.com/en/detail-sets-accessories/swiss-wwii-anti-tank-rifle-solothurn-s-18-100/)
Wikipedia > Solothurn S-18/100 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solothurn_S-18/100)
CMK also offers a resin kit of the larger S-18/1000 that was chambered for the 20X138B cartridge with carriage/ground mount. It has been hard to find since initial release. I will say that it is a much appreciated improvement over the white metal kit that was offered years ago (company unknown) and the resin model kit from Criel Model of Italy which is a bit lean on details and also a bit too flimsy looking.
Link: CMK (129-3140) 1/35th scale WW2 Solothurn 20mm Anti-Tank Rifle Solothurn S-18/1000 w/wheeled carriage. (https://www.cmkkits.com/en/detail-sets-accessories/129-3140/)
Wikipedia > Solothurn S-18/1000 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solothurn_S-18/1000)
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Anyone ever hear of a "Hell Cannon"? Necessity being the mother of invention, it fires propane canisters filled with HE.
http://brown-moses.blogspot.com/2013/05/diy-weapons-in-syria-hell-cannon.html (http://brown-moses.blogspot.com/2013/05/diy-weapons-in-syria-hell-cannon.html)
See also https://www.bellingcat.com/news/mena/2015/08/21/hell-cannons-from-minor-nuisance-to-major-threat-the-evolution-of-syrian-opposition-siege-artillery/ (https://www.bellingcat.com/news/mena/2015/08/21/hell-cannons-from-minor-nuisance-to-major-threat-the-evolution-of-syrian-opposition-siege-artillery/)
Firing video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gd6_qZ_TJ5A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gd6_qZ_TJ5A)
Since the real ones are made out of spare parts and scrap (with lots of variations) it would seem to be an ideal 1:35th scale subject. However, the trepidatious can always get this 1:72nd scale kit https://internethobbies.com/products/ace-military-1-72-hell-cannon-syrian-artillery-kit (https://internethobbies.com/products/ace-military-1-72-hell-cannon-syrian-artillery-kit)
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It looks like a 9P135M launcher modified to fire the Malyutka missile. I don't know but am interest in who came up with it.
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Devil's Advocacy
(https://i.pinimg.com/564x/e5/7a/dc/e57adc55438ebb79b39a4a2c6dcf1aae.jpg)
Ammo
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2172990 (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2172990)
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3811728 (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3811728)
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I'm putting this here as it seemed most appropriate:
2A42 30mm autocannon from a destroyed Russian BMD-2 IFV being added on an improvised mounting.
https://youtu.be/OaOO1JvnU7U - not sure about the barrel bending
Firing:
https://youtu.be/Wl2_rX3tEXs
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When I was playing with mortars they were still all infantry.
Heres a clip of a Finnish 120 mm mortar squad with the task to fire a 60 second / 12 round offensive burst. The first round goes at 1:07 into the clip. They have a snag with a loose charge bag and the timing goes a little wrong at the end, so they don't fire a round on 60 seconds.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFsYfOi42Mc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFsYfOi42Mc)
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I'm putting this here as it seemed most appropriate:
2A42 30mm autocannon from a destroyed Russian BMD-2 IFV being added on an improvised mounting.
https://youtu.be/OaOO1JvnU7U - not sure about the barrel bending
Firing:
https://youtu.be/Wl2_rX3tEXs
That firing sequence is scary! :o
Needs more mass at the front. ::)
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Hotchkiss 1.65" (42mm) Mountain Howitzer
(https://i.imgur.com/yr1I1Gr.jpg)
https://landships.activeboard.com/t66550594/42mm-hotchkiss-mountain-gun-with-field-carriage-limber/
https://archive.org/details/handbookforligh00dyergoog/page/n19/mode/2up
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When I was playing with mortars they were still all infantry.
Heres a clip of a Finnish 120 mm mortar squad with the task to fire a 60 second / 12 round offensive burst. The first round goes at 1:07 into the clip. They have a snag with a loose charge bag and the timing goes a little wrong at the end, so they don't fire a round on 60 seconds.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFsYfOi42Mc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFsYfOi42Mc)
I guess if you're not going to bother checking the sights and re-laying the mortar after every round...hope its well bedded in!
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When I was playing with mortars they were still all infantry.
Heres a clip of a Finnish 120 mm mortar squad with the task to fire a 60 second / 12 round offensive burst. The first round goes at 1:07 into the clip. They have a snag with a loose charge bag and the timing goes a little wrong at the end, so they don't fire a round on 60 seconds.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFsYfOi42Mc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFsYfOi42Mc)
I guess if you're not going to bother checking the sights and re-laying the mortar after every round...hope its well bedded in!
They tend to be careful about getting the mortar bedded in.. And they check the sights and levels after every round.
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(https://i.pinimg.com/564x/b2/23/1f/b2231f2d7bec6e6c44104625f710957e.jpg)(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/_YYMeAu4i7gA/TJ2j-TzFnsI/AAAAAAAAJSw/djdltuJU08g/s640/japan-ww2-rare-pictures-002.jpg)
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When you absolutely, positively have to irritate a target have a 400 round pan for your Lewis.
(https://i.redd.it/w5dctdqkg8s71.png)
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Czechoslovak experimental RPG with revolver 4 round magazine, 61mm, circa 1947 (Military history institute Prague - The army museum Žižkov)
(https://i.redd.it/r7bwfzq0nf4a1.jpg)
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37mm Infantry Gun
https://i.imgur.com/beldNRp.mp4 (https://i.imgur.com/beldNRp.mp4)
https://www.thearmorylife.com/m1916-37mm-infantry-gun/ (https://www.thearmorylife.com/m1916-37mm-infantry-gun/)
(https://i.pinimg.com/564x/30/fe/0c/30fe0cbe844f071ea6f731d0158b48e9.jpg)
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Some WWII time guns seen at a museum last weekend:
https://sakylantalvijajatkosotamuseo.fi/the_museum_of_winter_and_continuation_war/
- 20mm double anti-aircraft gun made by the Finnish "Valtion kivääritehdas" (State Rifle Factory)
- 37mm Bofors anti-tank gun
- 75mm M1917 gun and Soviet 20mm anti-aircraft gun
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37mm Infantry Gun
https://i.imgur.com/beldNRp.mp4 (https://i.imgur.com/beldNRp.mp4)
https://www.thearmorylife.com/m1916-37mm-infantry-gun/ (https://www.thearmorylife.com/m1916-37mm-infantry-gun/)
(https://i.pinimg.com/564x/30/fe/0c/30fe0cbe844f071ea6f731d0158b48e9.jpg)
:smiley:
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15mm BESA on a ground mount. Interesting as it shows the scale comparison to men.
(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/9a/97/94/9a979449d052e63d649ac2e820a27f24.jpg)
Imagine being wedged into a Vickers turret with that thing(https://i.pinimg.com/564x/a3/a5/54/a3a554fe6c4721c82547367f762cac6d.jpg)
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Not that bad, really. Could be a lot worse.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/89/Type_95_light_tank_Ha-Go_early_model.jpg)
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15mm BESA on a ground mount. Interesting as it shows the scale comparison to men.
Imagine being wedged into a Vickers turret with that thing
I wouldn't be that bad, Looking at the gun in my edited picture, the trunnion is inside the green circle, and everything inside the blue circle would be removed, as this only seems to be needed for the tripod mounted version.
(https://i.postimg.cc/B4zk2spW/9a979449d052e63d649ac2e820a27f24.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
and on the tank, again, the trunnion is inside the green circle, so there wouldn't really be that much of the weapon inside the turret . . .
(https://i.postimg.cc/B4bR8txc/a3a554fe6c4721c82547367f762cac6d.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
cheers,
Robin.
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([url]http://silverhawkauthor.com/images/site_graphics/Motorcycles/Motorcycle-with-Lewis-gun---MIKAN-No--3613174.jpg[/url])
Answering my own question above, it seams as though this was a 37mm anti-tank gun being trialled - potentially over 400 of these were actually made:
Tripped over this just now
https://topwar.ru/15502-37-mm-aviadesantnaya-ptp-obrazca-1944-goda-chk-m1.html
(https://i.pinimg.com/564x/46/8b/57/468b570e6c798c27dde0edda49e1435e.jpg)
(https://i.pinimg.com/564x/ea/05/59/ea0559e002b8256153c55a13615e49d8.jpg)
(https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/hmt-forum/ww2_sosig_recoilless_rifle2_fullsize.jpg)
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(https://i.pinimg.com/564x/84/a1/b5/84a1b540695da3b1ac9e8e28b6405bb2.jpg)
Silly NorKs
(https://i.pinimg.com/564x/2d/e4/0c/2de40c6b7bc3b8c0af53d73398847d9c.jpg)
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Part of a discussion elsewhere about the King Howitzer (so started out as a land weapon), transitioned to a boat gun.
http://gunneyg.info/html/KHp1.htm (http://gunneyg.info/html/KHp1.htm)
(https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/241691212_4300540443373983_3499790776997638015_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p526x296&_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=3635dc&_nc_ohc=H3j8mFFJlMMAX9WA4SF&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-2.xx&oh=00_AfCG7i7YEcFoGmgR3-5PseP-kWhF3yoCpcV-6E4iNiaSRQ&oe=65B4D547)
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Gunnery training turrets in North Africa. Note the .303 SMLEs as subcaliber trainers
(https://i.pinimg.com/564x/ca/bb/da/cabbda248138e682ceb5e398ff3b5d38.jpg)
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Gunnery training turrets in North Africa. Note the .303 SMLEs as subcaliber trainers
Cool! That scene would make for an interesting little diorama :smiley:
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Sweden & Switzerland among others are still doing this to modern turrets.
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Interesting weapons station.
(https://i.pinimg.com/564x/bb/de/43/bbde43073cc5f12cac0f06c4406d8455.jpg)