Author Topic: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives  (Read 99623 times)

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #150 on: November 23, 2014, 10:12:19 AM »
I wouldn't get too worried - remember that we are talking about a totally fictional aircraft here.
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Offline Weaver

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #151 on: November 23, 2014, 10:25:20 AM »

Airmodel in Germany do an Avon Sabre vacuform conversion for considerably cheaper than the High Planes one.  However, the High Planes model or conversion (they do a complete kit as well as just a fuselage), if purchased direct from Singapore I'm sure works out much cheaper than 20 quid, it is also injection moulded.



Cheers for the info about Airmodel: some interesting stuff there.

The Avon Sabre full kit is listed at £19.66 on HPM Hobbies website, or £8.85 for just the conversion. The latter is the only one actually in stock at the moment, and there's another £4.97 for shipment to the UK. The cheapest of the recommended donor kits I can find on a quick search is £13.
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Offline Weaver

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #152 on: November 23, 2014, 10:32:42 AM »
I wouldn't get too worried - remember that we are talking about a totally fictional aircraft here.

Very doable though: the Airmodel vac-form set that Rickshaw linked has CA-27, F-86K and TF-86 fuselages and canopies in it so you could always mix the bits up to get just what you want
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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #153 on: November 23, 2014, 11:56:45 AM »
I wouldn't get too worried - remember that we are talking about a totally fictional aircraft here.


Very doable though: the Airmodel vac-form set that Rickshaw linked has CA-27, F-86K and TF-86 fuselages and canopies in it so you could always mix the bits up to get just what you want


That is my intention.  One of my earilest Whiffs was a Sabre Sea Dingo but I used a combination of the High Planes fuselage, the Airfix F-86D and the Fuji T-1 cockpit.  I've never been happy with it and have long intended redoing it.   After I'd built it I purchased the airmodel vacuform and it's sat waiting for me to get around to it.

Offline jcf

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #154 on: November 23, 2014, 12:00:53 PM »
I wouldn't get too worried - remember that we are talking about a totally fictional aircraft here.

So sad, yet another engineer ruined by working in management.  ;)  :icon_fsm:
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #155 on: November 23, 2014, 12:12:04 PM »
I wouldn't get too worried - remember that we are talking about a totally fictional aircraft here.

Very doable though: the Airmodel vac-form set that Rickshaw linked has CA-27, F-86K and TF-86 fuselages and canopies in it so you could always mix the bits up to get just what you want
If I was going to do an Avon- or Sapphire- powered radar-equipped variant, I'd likely get two because you'll need to deepen the inlet to accommodate the higher mass flow either of those engines require (not that the FJ-3 has a rather deeper intake than the equivalent F-86 and that was carried over to the FJ-4 - if memory serves me correctly, the first XFJ-2's were navalized F-86Es but the production ones had a J65 and a deeper intake and this was enlarged somewhat further on the FJ-3).  Given that the Orenda gives more "poke" without needing a larger intake, I could see an navalized F-86K with an Orenda installed flying off HMCS Bonaventure; I've heard that a cross between that and a FJ-4 was proposed by NAA-Columbus in the competition that led to F2H Banshees flying in that role.

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #156 on: November 23, 2014, 12:41:13 PM »
I wouldn't get too worried - remember that we are talking about a totally fictional aircraft here.

So sad, yet another engineer ruined by working in management.  ;)  :icon_fsm:

I've long gone to the dark side...mind you, I am still more of an engineer than some I have worked with.
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Offline jcf

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #157 on: November 23, 2014, 12:49:43 PM »
I wouldn't get too worried - remember that we are talking about a totally fictional aircraft here.

So sad, yet another engineer ruined by working in management.  ;)  :icon_fsm:

I've long gone to the dark side...mind you, I am still more of an engineer than some I have worked with.
Yes Dear, I know that.

Oops, sorry I was channelling Brook there.  ;)  ;D
 :icon_fsm:

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Sense doesn’t come into it. People are
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actually is than they ever are about
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conspiracy.”
-The Peripheral, William Gibson 2014

Offline finsrin

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #158 on: November 23, 2014, 01:00:11 PM »
How about refitting F-86 with a F414.  Build one dry and one wet.
Turn em loose at an airshow !

Offline Kerick

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #159 on: November 23, 2014, 02:04:58 PM »
I keep thinking of an F-86 rebuilt like the Skyfox with a radome in place of the inlet and two turbofan engines mounted A-10 style. That space from the inlet could hold a lot of electronics or some butt kickn' guns.

Offline Weaver

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #160 on: November 23, 2014, 08:59:00 PM »
I keep thinking of an F-86 rebuilt like the Skyfox with a radome in place of the inlet and two turbofan engines mounted A-10 style. That space from the inlet could hold a lot of electronics or some butt kickn' guns.

How about having it based on an F-86D airframe with two of those closed-breech rocket guns they tested on the F-89 fitted in the faired-over former intake?
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Offline Silver Fox

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #161 on: November 23, 2014, 11:21:05 PM »
Make it an inexpensive Close Air Support type with a radome mounted over a electro-optical turret. With the intake trunk available as space, build in a 30mm chain gun as internal armament. Pylons normally carry Hellfire/Brimstone or rocket pods.

Of course, in my universe this is the Canadair/Bombardier Sabre Mk 7. :)

Offline Kerick

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #162 on: November 23, 2014, 11:38:50 PM »
All kinds of missions come to mind. All the space formerly taken up by the internal engine would be available for fuel, etc. As a fast FAC it could be on station for a long time. It would have to carry lots of rocket pods for target marking.

Offline kitnut617

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #163 on: November 23, 2014, 11:45:29 PM »
I wouldn't get too worried - remember that we are talking about a totally fictional aircraft here.


Very doable though: the Airmodel vac-form set that Rickshaw linked has CA-27, F-86K and TF-86 fuselages and canopies in it so you could always mix the bits up to get just what you want


And I've got this conversion set

http://www.modelcraftsandhobbies.co.nz/?page=shop/flypage&product_id=4603&category_id=46bf5e49e86e462f13c403ffd5bcdee2&

Offline elmayerle

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #164 on: November 24, 2014, 01:44:40 AM »
I keep thinking of an F-86 rebuilt like the Skyfox with a radome in place of the inlet and two turbofan engines mounted A-10 style. That space from the inlet could hold a lot of electronics or some butt kickn' guns.
Putting on my engineer's hat, I can say that I've seen the report on NAA's study of doing just that and it would require major airframe rebuild since the intake area is essentially stressed only for the aerodynamic loads of the air flowing through to the engine and the surrounding structure matches.  Sealing that space off and filling it with fuel, avionics, or whatever would require major rebuilding and a new airframe would be cheaper.  It would probably make more sense to reuse the wings and tail surfaces on a new fuselage set up and optimized for what you intend to do with it.

Offline kitnut617

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #165 on: November 24, 2014, 02:19:00 AM »
  It would probably make more sense to reuse the wings and tail surfaces on a new fuselage set up and optimized for what you intend to do with it.

YF-93 in other words --

Offline elmayerle

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #166 on: November 24, 2014, 02:39:12 AM »
  It would probably make more sense to reuse the wings and tail surfaces on a new fuselage set up and optimized for what you intend to do with it.

YF-93 in other words --
Among other possibilities, yes.

Offline Kerick

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #167 on: November 24, 2014, 04:41:03 AM »
I have no doubt what you say is true. But I have an F-86 kit I just don't know what else to do with. Of course I need to find an unsuspecting biz jet in 1/72nd scale to steal the engines from.

Offline elmayerle

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #168 on: November 24, 2014, 07:06:17 AM »
I have no doubt what you say is true. But I have an F-86 kit I just don't know what else to do with. Of course I need to find an unsuspecting biz jet in 1/72nd scale to steal the engines from.
Find an unsuspecting A-10 for a bit of overkill.  Best bet is finding a 1/72 30-series Learjet.  In 1/48, the Falcon 10 kit from Hasegawa would be perfect since the Skyfox used the same engines and nacelles and it could carry over.  For the F-86 kit, you could separate the fuselage at the point where it splits for engine removal and fabricate a new rear fuselage using the same tail surfaces.  Put a sharply sloped-down nose on it, with the guts and windows of a modern targeting pod and use it as a "Fast-FAC" that can designate targets for incoming "fast movers".

Offline Rickshaw

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #169 on: November 24, 2014, 08:47:28 AM »
How about a 1/144 scale A-10 for engines on a 1/72 Sabre?

Offline elmayerle

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #170 on: November 24, 2014, 09:19:45 AM »
How about a 1/144 scale A-10 for engines on a 1/72 Sabre?
I'd think that quite a plausible approach.

Offline kitnut617

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #171 on: November 24, 2014, 09:36:49 AM »
How about a 1/144 scale A-10 for engines on a 1/72 Sabre?
I'd think that quite a plausible approach.


Engines off a 1/72 Canadair Challenger would work there I think, or a Canadair CRJ200. Or maybe off a BAe 125
« Last Edit: November 24, 2014, 09:42:13 AM by kitnut617 »

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #172 on: November 24, 2014, 10:02:09 AM »
I have an F-86 kit I just don't know what else to do with.
How about an overall green Sabre as an OA-86/A-86 Sabre in U.S. Army service? 

Some modifications to consider:

- Reduce the number of guns to four (gives you more rounds for the remaining weapons which means more strafing passes)

- Add inflight refueling probe from an F-100 Super Sabre or the A-4 Skyhawk for hose and drogue refueling.  Not sure where the best location would be but it would make perfect sense to have AAR capability for range and loiter purposes over the objective.   

- Add a fifth and sixth stores pylon outboard of the existing stations.  This would give the aircraft six stores pylons, of which two would almost always be dedicated to fuel stores. 


Some weapons to consider for arming your Army OA-86/A-86:

- Three shot 4.5"(115 mm) FFAR rockets that were used on the P-47 and P-51 before the introduction of the 5.0" (127 mm) HVAR

- HVAR 5.0" (127 mm) aircraft rockets on the special rocket mounts that were available on the outboard wing sections (these were spring-loaded so that after the rocket fired it would retract flush into the wing).  This same feature was also used on some versions of the F-84F Thunderjet.  I believe the normal load of HVAR on the F-86 was eight rockets (four per wing). 

- Other stores would include general purpose bombs, fragmentation bombs, fire bombs, cluster bombs, munitions clusters, flares, smoke tanks, chemical weapons dispensers and other stores up to the weight limits of each pylon. 

Note there is no suggestion of air-to-air missiles as that would impinge on the responsibilities of the Air Force so the ground attack Sabre would have to rely on machine guns or speed to defend against any air threat.  Not sure if the USAF would have accepted it but as a what-if it is almost ideal. 

The only other modification I could think of would be to upgrade the ejection seat and give it a new canopy with more room to view things.  Maybe the canopy from an A-10 would work? 

Later variants of the OA-86/A-86 might be given the capability to carry and launch guided weapons such as the Pave Way series Laser Guided Bombs, AGM-65 Maverick, AGM-114 Hellfire, and other modern air to surface weapons if it were to soldier on for any length of time. 
« Last Edit: February 13, 2017, 08:29:35 AM by Jeffry Fontaine »
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #173 on: November 24, 2014, 10:04:28 AM »
How about a 1/144 scale A-10 for engines on a 1/72 Sabre?
I'd think that quite a plausible approach.


Engines off a 1/72 Canadair Challenger would work there I think, or a Canadair CRJ200. Or maybe off a BAe 125
if memory serves me correctly, there was a kit of the HS.125-600 with turbofan engines in 1/72; that would be ideal for this Sabre conversion.  1/72 CRJ200 engines would be the same size as A-10 engines and a bit overpowering for the Sabre, 1/144 CRJ200 engines would work out as "just right".

Offline finsrin

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #174 on: November 24, 2014, 10:35:38 AM »
Revell 1/100 A-10 kit engines power the Slowy Jet.
Thatz a possibility.