Author Topic: Centurion Tank Ideas and Inspiration  (Read 76622 times)

Online Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: Centurion Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #75 on: March 08, 2013, 02:22:58 AM »
yes of course, mount the cab over the engine.

The M8 cab was there because I thought I was going to win an ebay auction :-) Looks like it might be M4 afterall!

With the M4 HST body you also have a rear set of passenger seats and the machine gun cupola/turret to contend with.  This could be a good thing if you are hauling around a large crew-served artillery rocket. 
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Re: Centurion Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #76 on: May 30, 2015, 07:16:06 AM »
Some very interesting photos of Australian Centurion Tanks (and other things) in Vietnam here
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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Centurion Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #77 on: May 30, 2015, 10:22:03 AM »
Some very interesting photos of Australian Centurion Tanks (and other things) in Vietnam here

Indeed, some very interesting shots in there!   :)

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Re: Centurion Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #78 on: November 08, 2015, 05:30:51 AM »
A variant I wasn't aware of:  the FV 4005 experimental tank destroyer with a 183 mm gun:

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Offline kitnut617

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Re: Centurion Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #79 on: November 08, 2015, 10:29:45 PM »
Some very interesting photos of Australian Centurion Tanks (and other things) in Vietnam here

Out of interest, there's a Canadian fellow I work with every now and then, who I found out was a door gunner on a Huey in the 7th Cavalry, didn't know before that Canadians were involved (albeit voluntary)

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Re: Centurion Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #80 on: November 09, 2015, 03:14:47 AM »
Some very interesting photos of Australian Centurion Tanks (and other things) in Vietnam here

Out of interest, there's a Canadian fellow I work with every now and then, who I found out was a door gunner on a Huey in the 7th Cavalry, didn't know before that Canadians were involved (albeit voluntary)

I didn't know that either
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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Centurion Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #81 on: November 09, 2015, 10:28:05 AM »
Some very interesting photos of Australian Centurion Tanks (and other things) in Vietnam here

Out of interest, there's a Canadian fellow I work with every now and then, who I found out was a door gunner on a Huey in the 7th Cavalry, didn't know before that Canadians were involved (albeit voluntary)

IIRC less than a thousand (or was it more?) voluntarily served in Vietnam.  It compensated for the several thousand Americans who fled north to avoid the Draft.

Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: Centurion Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #82 on: January 25, 2016, 05:20:31 AM »
Centurion turret works with Panther and M41 too.




Offline Kerick

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Re: Centurion Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #83 on: January 25, 2016, 10:33:20 AM »
I was reading about the shortened or lengthened tank hull. To get your width to length ratio back you could widen or narrow the hull accordingly. Either the lengthened or shortened hull has its potential for whiff coolness.

That 183mm gun is a monster! Did they get that off a WW2 cruiser?

Offline dy031101

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Re: Centurion Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #84 on: January 25, 2016, 02:07:46 PM »
A variant I wasn't aware of:  the FV 4005 experimental tank destroyer with a 183 mm gun......

Speaking of big-turret tank destroyer variant of Centurion, I would like to go back to Conway for a bit.

The gun used on Conway is said to be the same as the one used on Conqueror and is said to have "lost much of its tactical advantage" with the advent of Royal Ordnance L7.

This reminds me of the People's Liberation Army, who back in the day of standardizing on L7-clone as main battle tank armament still mass-produced 120mm-gun PTZ-89 tank destroyers for fire support against Soviet armours coming down from the north.

I can't seem to find any APDS or APFSDS ammunition for the L1 gun.  Did the L1 gun ever have APDS or APFSDS ammunition?  Or is the lack of APDS and APFSDS ammunition a reason why it ended up getting superseded by the L7?
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Re: Centurion Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #85 on: February 20, 2016, 04:34:54 PM »
A variant I wasn't aware of:  the FV 4005 experimental tank destroyer with a 183 mm gun:




There is now a 1/35 conversion kit for this:

« Last Edit: March 07, 2016, 02:36:15 AM by GTX_Admin »
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Offline dy031101

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Re: Centurion Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #86 on: March 06, 2016, 11:12:44 AM »
Found along the way of my quest to find inspiration to solve my Leman Russ debacle......
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Re: Centurion Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #87 on: March 09, 2016, 04:51:24 AM »
That is the Teledyne Continental Motors Low Profile Turret mounted on a Centurion Mk 5.  This system was developed in the mid 80's as part of the US Army Armored Gun System (AGS) program.  Teledyne developed a lightweight hull for this system which came to be known as the "expeditionary tank."  Teledyne also marketed the low profile turret as an upgrade solution for older vehicles such as the M60, Centurion, T-55 and AMX30.  When that branch of Teledyne (Teledyne Continental Motors General Products Division) was sold to General Dynamics in the mid 90's, GD took the low profile turret and adopted it for the Stryker as the M1128 Mobile Gun System.
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Re: Centurion Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #88 on: April 23, 2016, 07:13:16 AM »
Some interesting shots showing the Australian Centurion Tanks first arriving:



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Offline dy031101

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Re: Centurion Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #89 on: May 14, 2016, 03:53:55 PM »
The so-called Action X turret.

I wonder if its mantlet design is a forerunner of some sort to the one used on Chieftain.

I am also curious about how successful it is- despite the fact that it indeed didn't end up being mass-produced, a slightly reworked version was later used in another project, so I suppose whoever designed the turret must have done something right.

Suitable for all what-ifs involving a Centurion turret  ;)
« Last Edit: May 14, 2016, 11:19:53 PM by dy031101 »
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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Centurion Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #90 on: May 15, 2016, 10:50:11 AM »
That was one of several Centurions which were reworked for the Chieftain MBT project.   They involved working out the internal mantlet and the reclining driver's seat.   They are mentioned in the Squadron/Signal Centurion in Action book, plus the Chieftain MBT book I have (author's name forgotten) which is in storage at the moment.

Offline dy031101

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Re: Centurion Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #91 on: May 17, 2016, 12:05:17 AM »
That was one of several Centurions which were reworked for the Chieftain MBT project.   They involved working out the internal mantlet and the reclining driver's seat.   They are mentioned in the Squadron/Signal Centurion in Action book, plus the Chieftain MBT book I have (author's name forgotten) which is in storage at the moment.

Question: did they move the co-axial machinegun around?  Are my eyes playing tricks on me?  Or did they just get rid of the machinegun, and the exercise is all just a research project?
« Last Edit: May 17, 2016, 01:36:28 AM by dy031101 »
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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Centurion Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #92 on: May 17, 2016, 08:18:55 AM »
That was one of several Centurions which were reworked for the Chieftain MBT project.   They involved working out the internal mantlet and the reclining driver's seat.   They are mentioned in the Squadron/Signal Centurion in Action book, plus the Chieftain MBT book I have (author's name forgotten) which is in storage at the moment.

Question: did they move the co-axial machinegun around?  Are my eyes playing tricks on me?  Or did they just get rid of the machinegun, and the exercise is all just a research project?

AIUI it was a research project.  There was no co-ax added to the tank's mantlet.  What I think you believe might be a co-ax - the slot to the right of the mantlet in the upper glacis plate is actually for the gunner's sight.

Offline dy031101

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Re: Centurion Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #93 on: May 18, 2016, 09:33:54 AM »
Another question- on the Swingfire-augmented tank (shown here), are the Swingfire box launchers in any way armoured?
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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Centurion Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #94 on: May 18, 2016, 10:51:07 AM »
Another question- on the Swingfire-augmented tank (shown here), are the Swingfire box launchers in any way armoured?


I doubt it.  For some reason designers liked to leave their ATGWs mounted on MBTs and other AFVs unarmed in what were essentially "proof-of-concept" vehicles rather than operational ones.   Only the Israelis seem to have put their missiles inside the tank turret, rather than on the outside.  Perhaps they realised how vulnerable a piece of thin, mild metal is in combat?

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: Centurion Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #95 on: May 18, 2016, 11:41:42 AM »
Or, possibly, because it is an augmentation, & thus a secondary weapon system, the costs in time, upgrades, weight & risk to the crew (a missile exploding/burning inside the turret armour is going to be more lethal than if it does so on the outside) of the add-on are not deemed to be worth it & the launch hatches/openings are weak points in the turret.

A tank with an integrated missile system built into it from the start could be another matter entirely. For starters most missile systems could fit into an armoured bustle at the rear of the turret & be raised/elevated to fire (the turret casting/design including armour between the crew compartment & the bustle). This would require a re-arrangement of how most turrets are laid out but could be easily worked into the design, rather than having to fit it ainto an existing lay-out.
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Offline dy031101

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Re: Centurion Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #96 on: May 19, 2016, 02:48:04 AM »
A tank with an integrated missile system built into it from the start could be another matter entirely. For starters most missile systems could fit into an armoured bustle at the rear of the turret & be raised/elevated to fire (the turret casting/design including armour between the crew compartment & the bustle). This would require a re-arrangement of how most turrets are laid out but could be easily worked into the design, rather than having to fit it ainto an existing lay-out.

If I am going for a new turret as an upgrade, which one would you expect to be cheaper, trying to fit a 120mm gun or putting four Swingfire missiles into the bustle?
« Last Edit: May 19, 2016, 03:51:52 AM by dy031101 »
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Offline Old Wombat

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Re: Centurion Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #97 on: May 19, 2016, 08:37:43 AM »
Not really my field of expertise but it would depend on how much redesign work would be needed on the original turret to fit the 120mm vs how much redesign is needed to fit the bustle & missiles.

My guess is that the gun upgrade would be cheaper.

Just slapping 4 unarmoured launcher boxes on the side would be even cheaper, still.
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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Centurion Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #98 on: May 19, 2016, 04:54:24 PM »
A new 120mm gun in a Centurion turret would be expensive to build.   You would need a new recoil system and a stronger turret ring to absorb the recoil sufficiently for the turret to remain seated on the vehicle.  You would need stronger traverse and elevation motors, because of the increased mass of the turret.

Adding some ATGWs in an armoured bustle would be considerably less expensive but you'd need to address the balance problems that such a heavy weight would bring, being so far away from the centre of mass of the turret.  You might also require to upgrade the turret rotation motors as well, to ensure that the turret still traverses sufficiently fast enough.

Adding externally mounted ATGWs would be the cheapest option in the short-term but would it be effective in the longer-term?  The missiles would be vulnerable to artillery fragments and small arms.   While they might be effective in the first encounter the enemy would learn to blanket any attacking force with artillery and MG fire to render their missiles impotent or damaged.

Offline Beekster

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Re: Centurion Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #99 on: July 04, 2016, 01:31:34 AM »
I spotted the 40m SPAA idea a few pages back.  I'm considering something similar, a mid-1960s hypothetical IDF variant:  Use an AFV Club Meteor-engined Cent hull and the the turret from the Heller AMX-30 DCA.  Perhaps change out the guns; if I want to get radical I could try to fit my own IMI 60mm hypervelocity barrels.  If there's not enough width for that at the trunnions, I could always cut the turret and trunnions in half and add strip stock to widen the turret.