Author Topic: Bell UH-1 Iroquois/Huey et al  (Read 31415 times)

Offline jschmus

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Bell UH-1 Iroquois/Huey et al
« on: July 26, 2013, 06:12:36 AM »
Mods, if there is already a thread for this and I didn't see it, please fold this into it.  I saw this story and could not resist sharing it.  An air-to-air kill of an An-2 Colt by a UH-1:

https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/csi-publications/csi-studies/studies/vol52no2/iac/an-air-combat-first.html
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Bell UH-1 Iroquois/Huey et al
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2013, 02:39:07 AM »
I remember reading about this a while back.
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Offline kitnut617

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Re: Bell UH-1 Iroquois/Huey et al
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2013, 04:19:31 AM »
I find this quite believable, at an airshow I went to a couple of weeks ago (Airdrie Airshow just north of Calgary), there was this doing a flying display and if the breeze had been any stiffer it would've gone backwards I think.  It took almost ten minutes to fly down the main runway (which isn't very long either).



On the other hand, this fairly whipped along


Offline ChernayaAkula

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Re: Bell UH-1 Iroquois/Huey et al
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2013, 12:41:15 AM »
I'm not sure they shot the Colt down. With two of these noisy things in the air at the same time in the same general vicinity, one of them had to go down because the accumulated vibrations from these two beasts shook the fittings loose in one of them almost immediately and the plane came apart.  ;D The Colt probably lost this engagement due to its greater age. Pretty sure though they'd have to write off the Huey after the flight as well.  ;D

A couple of years ago I was sitting upstairs in my room when a droning sound got louder and louder. A Huey, I thought? No, wrong frequency. I thought someone was driving by in an old tractor or something like that. Went to the window to look out, but nothing was to be seen. The droning got louder. Then I spotted the Anna in the sky, still quite a way off. Probably some sightseeing flight. Took it ages to make the few clicks along our valley.

They've said that the North Korean plan to use the old Annas to clandestinely insert paratroopers into the south. I'm not convinced you could do anything clandestinely in an An-2!  ;D
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Moritz

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Re: Bell UH-1 Iroquois/Huey et al
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2013, 03:33:28 AM »

They've said that the North Korean plan to use the old Annas to clandestinely insert paratroopers into the south. I'm not convinced you could do anything clandestinely in an An-2!  ;D

And yet I recently read a news story where the journalist was claiming that the North Korean An-2 presented a stealth threat which the west had no counter for... ;)
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Offline raafif

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Re: Bell UH-1 Iroquois/Huey et al
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2013, 05:39:25 AM »
I'm not convinced you could do anything clandestinely in an An-2!  ;D

I'm pretty sure you could hold a fairly loud party in an airborne AN-2 without anyone being the wiser .... a rock concert may just be hear-able tho :icon_music:

Offline ChernayaAkula

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Re: Bell UH-1 Iroquois/Huey et al
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2013, 06:13:09 AM »
And yet I recently read a news story where the journalist was claiming that the North Korean An-2 presented a stealth threat which the west had no counter for... ;)


No problem. Any old Bofors with one of these for gun-laying.  ;D



Cheers,
Moritz

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Offline jcf

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Re: Bell UH-1 Iroquois/Huey et al
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2013, 11:39:54 PM »
I'm not sure they shot the Colt down. With two of these noisy things in the air at the same time in the same general vicinity, one of them had to go down because the accumulated vibrations from these two beasts shook the fittings loose in one of them almost immediately and the plane came apart.  ;D The Colt probably lost this engagement due to its greater age. Pretty sure though they'd have to write off the Huey after the flight as well.  ;D

A couple of years ago I was sitting upstairs in my room when a droning sound got louder and louder. A Huey, I thought? No, wrong frequency. I thought someone was driving by in an old tractor or something like that. Went to the window to look out, but nothing was to be seen. The droning got louder. Then I spotted the Anna in the sky, still quite a way off. Probably some sightseeing flight. Took it ages to make the few clicks along our valley.

They've said that the North Korean plan to use the old Annas to clandestinely insert paratroopers into the south. I'm not convinced you could do anything clandestinely in an An-2!  ;D

The An-2 remained in production until 2002, so I wouldn't assume that the NV aircraft were actually
all that much older than the UH-1.

Ditto the NK ones as Chinese production may still be continuing.
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Re: Bell UH-1 Iroquois/Huey et al
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2013, 06:22:35 AM »
Something different:

All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Bell UH-1 Iroquois/Huey et al
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2013, 11:05:40 AM »
A feasible "parts bin" Huey, a 414ST being a 214ST with the transmission and rotors from a UH-1Y.  ANd while it's not exactly the same, there's a modified 214ST flying as a testbed for the 525 transmission and rotors.

Offline kitnut617

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Re: Bell UH-1 Iroquois/Huey et al
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2013, 09:46:54 PM »
The one in my photo I posted earlier I was told is a Bell 412CT Outlaw, a civilian version of the Griffon.  But I've found links on the internet saying it is a retired Griffon being used as a Griffon pilot trainer (it's painted in the deep blue colour found on all RCAF trainers, fixed or rotor wing))

Offline Daryl J.

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Re: Bell UH-1 Iroquois/Huey et al
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2013, 02:29:54 AM »
How about the Huey as a landing craft killer say for instance South Korea.
kwyxdxLg5T

Offline taiidantomcat

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Re: Bell UH-1 Iroquois/Huey et al
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2013, 06:22:12 AM »
I've been pondering a Soviet Huey for some time: new rotors, new engines, and some wheels rather than skids...
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Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: Bell UH-1 Iroquois/Huey et al
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2013, 06:42:10 AM »
I've been pondering a Soviet Huey for some time: new rotors, new engines, and some wheels rather than skids...

Maybe a kit-bash with a 1:72nd scale Mi-24 Hind or Mi-8/M-17 Hip if you are going to be using a 1:48th scale UH-1 or would that still be too large?
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Offline apophenia

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Re: Bell UH-1 Iroquois/Huey et al
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2013, 07:36:19 AM »
The one in my photo I posted earlier I was told is a Bell 412CT Outlaw, a civilian version of the Griffon.  But I've found links on the internet saying it is a retired Griffon being used as a Griffon pilot trainer (it's painted in the deep blue colour found on all RCAF trainers, fixed or rotor wing))

kit': The  Outlaws are indeed former CH-146 Griffons sold-off in 2005 (Allied Wings took them on in Jan 2006). So that makes them Bell 412CFs.

The 'CT' comes from a bogus Canadian Forces designation 'CT-146' (although that 'designation' is to be found in official records too). Your C-FYZL was formerly 146428, ex-408 TacHel.
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Offline dy031101

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Re: Bell UH-1 Iroquois/Huey et al
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2014, 12:00:38 PM »
Apparently there is a (private?) venture prototyped from the barebone of an UH-1B and then evaluated by the armies of US and then RoK.

American Aircraft "Penetrator"

One pilot, three (one in the tandem cockpit, two in the aft portion of the troop compartment) gunners, and six passengers; weapons include four trainable 7.62mm machineguns and two stub wings with hardpoints.

The builder went down after the end of Cold War, and the prototype was sold off and offered by its new owner as a movie prop under the name "Stealth Star".

Well since the prototype was built on a short-bodied UH-1B, a natural what-if would then be one based on the longer-bodied UH-1H......
« Last Edit: December 22, 2014, 12:11:16 PM by dy031101 »
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline finsrin

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Re: Bell UH-1 Iroquois/Huey et al
« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2014, 12:21:03 PM »
Is cool  8)

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Bell UH-1 Iroquois/Huey et al
« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2014, 01:24:17 PM »
Apparently there is a (private?) venture prototyped from the barebone of an UH-1B and then evaluated by the armies of US and then RoK.

American Aircraft "Penetrator"

One pilot, three (one in the tandem cockpit, two in the aft portion of the troop compartment) gunners, and six passengers; weapons include four trainable 7.62mm machineguns and two stub wings with hardpoints.

The builder went down after the end of Cold War, and the prototype was sold off and offered by its new owner as a movie prop under the name "Stealth Star".

Well since the prototype was built on a short-bodied UH-1B, a natural what-if would then be one based on the longer-bodied UH-1H......

Base it on a UH-1N or a civil Model 412 For the extra engine power and the availability of twin engines (PT6T "TwinPac").

Offline jcf

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Re: Bell UH-1 Iroquois/Huey et al
« Reply #18 on: December 23, 2014, 01:06:43 AM »

A guy I worked with at Boeing in the late '90s, Igor Kulikov, had been part of the design/build team for that critter.
He was always carrying a notebook full of various ideas, and he has had a few different websites, here is his most
recent:
http://airdevlab.com

However, I don't recall him say anything about actual evals by the US military.

According to LinkedIn Igor currently works at BAE Systems
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kulikovigor
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Offline Weaver

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Re: Bell UH-1 Iroquois/Huey et al
« Reply #19 on: December 23, 2014, 08:42:38 AM »
Useful bit of info for anyone planning a 1/72nd scale build: the Italeri AB-212 kit also includes almost all the parts for the 4-bladed AB-412 rotor as well. The only thing lacking is the revised rotor mast, but that looks scratchable from Evergreen and brass tube/rod.
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Offline dy031101

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Re: Bell UH-1 Iroquois/Huey et al
« Reply #20 on: December 24, 2014, 04:08:36 AM »
Base it on a UH-1N or a civil Model 412 For the extra engine power and the availability of twin engines (PT6T "TwinPac").

I was thinking of basing it on Bell 214A, if only to see how much of its outline gets preserved.  Granted, LTC4B-8D seems pretty large, too......
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Bell UH-1 Iroquois/Huey et al
« Reply #21 on: December 28, 2014, 11:44:21 PM »
I was reading something this evening on Australia's Iroquois, what was particularly interesting was that initially the type was solely intended for search and rescue and army support was only added after the selection had been made and orders placed.  At this time the army, while very keen to substantially grow their organic airpower, were limited (by legislation / policy / regulation?) to a maximum weight of aircraft permitted, effectively preventing the operation of utility helicopters let alone anything larger.

At the time the Iroquois was ordered the RAN was actually the most experienced rotary wing operator with the RAAF having almost no experience and the army having none.  It is extremely fortunate that the RAAF decided to expand the intended missions of their new helicopters to include army support otherwise the ADF could have been left without any tactical air support at all. 

Of interest is that the RAN initially selected the Wessex as their SAR type but following the decision to use the Wessex as an ASW platform the FAA acquired UH-1Bs and Cs for the SAR role instead.  I wonder, in hindsight, if the  RAAF should have retained the SAR role, maybe added CSAR and even SOF support, with a larger more capable type, while the army took control of the support and utility roles twenty five years earlier.

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Bell UH-1 Iroquois/Huey et al
« Reply #22 on: December 28, 2014, 11:54:41 PM »
Base it on a UH-1N or a civil Model 412 For the extra engine power and the availability of twin engines (PT6T "TwinPac").

I was thinking of basing it on Bell 214A, if only to see how much of its outline gets preserved.  Granted, LTC4B-8D seems pretty large, too......
Go really big and base it on a 214ST. :)

Offline jcf

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Re: Bell UH-1 Iroquois/Huey et al
« Reply #23 on: December 29, 2014, 12:34:08 PM »
Base it on a UH-1N or a civil Model 412 For the extra engine power and the availability of twin engines (PT6T "TwinPac").

I was thinking of basing it on Bell 214A, if only to see how much of its outline gets preserved.  Granted, LTC4B-8D seems pretty large, too......
Go really big and base it on a 214ST. :)

Yeah Baby, now we're talkin'.  :)
“Conspiracy theory’s got to be simple.
Sense doesn’t come into it. People are
more scared of how complicated shit
actually is than they ever are about
whatever’s supposed to be behind the
conspiracy.”
-The Peripheral, William Gibson 2014

Offline dy031101

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Re: Bell UH-1 Iroquois/Huey et al
« Reply #24 on: December 29, 2014, 01:19:59 PM »
Base it on a UH-1N or a civil Model 412 For the extra engine power and the availability of twin engines (PT6T "TwinPac").


I was thinking of basing it on Bell 214A, if only to see how much of its outline gets preserved.  Granted, LTC4B-8D seems pretty large, too......

Go really big and base it on a 214ST. :)


Yeah Baby, now we're talkin'.  :)


I kinda hope it wouldn't end up as big as an AH-64 though......  ???

The passenger compartment is accessed via ramp-style doors...... at least after the chopper is reconfigured as Stealth Star.  Think it might complicate troop fast-roping?
« Last Edit: December 29, 2014, 01:46:36 PM by dy031101 »
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?