Author Topic: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives  (Read 99535 times)

Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #200 on: December 20, 2018, 10:52:32 PM »
I think FireStreak missile trial is the one being thought of:




Yep that one, I blame the drugs!


Found this video.  De Havilland Firestreak Guided Missile (1957): https://youtu.be/CGaMYfyLwD8

Goto 1:50 to see the F-86 portion.
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #201 on: December 21, 2018, 03:12:26 AM »
 :smiley:
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Offline Volkodav

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #202 on: December 21, 2018, 04:59:14 PM »
Very cool!

A very simple what if, a productionised version of the trail configuration becomes an interim RAAF night and all weather fighter.  Sqn sizes are increased for each to incorporate a flight of Avon Sabre FAW.

Offline kitnut617

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #203 on: December 21, 2018, 10:18:46 PM »
Makes me wonder why F-86D's weren't acquired more

Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #204 on: December 22, 2018, 01:41:01 AM »
Makes me wonder why F-86D's weren't acquired more

I can fix that Robert.  ;D
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Offline kitnut617

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #205 on: December 22, 2018, 03:03:40 AM »
Makes me wonder why F-86D's weren't acquired more

I can fix that Robert.  ;D

Yeah! it's got my 'little grey cells' going into overtime too ---  ;D

Offline ChernayaAkula

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #206 on: December 22, 2018, 06:59:16 AM »
<...> 'little grey cells' <...>

"Belgian Sabre Dog, please, madam!"
Cheers,
Moritz

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Offline elmayerle

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #207 on: December 22, 2018, 02:48:59 PM »
Makes me wonder why F-86D's weren't acquired more
Or the F-86K used more widely.  I think I'd rather have the cannons than the retractable rocket cells.  You could still update the wing to carry desired AAM's (Sidewinder, Firestreak, et al.).  For a somewhat "out there" whif, and RAF variant of the F-86K with the Fairey Skyflash.

Offline kitnut617

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #208 on: December 22, 2018, 10:16:59 PM »
Makes me wonder why F-86D's weren't acquired more
Or the F-86K used more widely.  I think I'd rather have the cannons than the retractable rocket cells.  You could still update the wing to carry desired AAM's (Sidewinder, Firestreak, et al.).  For a somewhat "out there" whif, and RAF variant of the F-86K with the Fairey Skyflash.

Yes the K, a much better idea -- :smiley:   Now I have something to put that Tauro kit to good use ---

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #209 on: December 23, 2018, 02:27:13 AM »
What about a FJ Fury derived from the F-86D Sabre Dog?  Maybe even have one with a pair of Sparrow missiles...
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Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #210 on: December 23, 2018, 03:45:06 AM »
You were saying Greg .....


RCN-CL-13A-Sea-Dog
by Big Gimper, on Flickr
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #211 on: December 23, 2018, 03:49:45 AM »
Not seeing any Sparrows... ;)
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Offline kitnut617

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #212 on: December 23, 2018, 07:28:56 AM »
What about a FJ Fury derived from the F-86D Sabre Dog?  Maybe even have one with a pair of Sparrow missiles...

While doing my Crecy engined Sabre Dog, I got to thinking it could really do with FJ-4 wings. I even went out and bought another FJ-4 kit to donate it's wings to the project but as usual, not got around to actually converting it.

Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #213 on: December 23, 2018, 10:51:39 AM »
Not seeing any Sparrows... ;)

This was drawn just after a live fire exercise and before the armourers reloaded the A/C.
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #214 on: December 23, 2018, 11:46:52 AM »
What about a FJ Fury derived from the F-86D Sabre Dog?  Maybe even have one with a pair of Sparrow missiles...
Cross of FJ-4 and either F-86D or F-86K?  That would work most nicely.  I could even see a RAN FAA variant with an Avon instead of a J65/Sapphire used by the FJ-3 & -4.

Offline Volkodav

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #215 on: December 23, 2018, 04:42:24 PM »
Sabre Dog or not its been a long term project of mine to do a CAC Avon / Aden FJ-4 / 4B of the RAN FAA.  I'm curious, could Melbourne have operated the FJ-4 without too much issue, or do I need a different carrier for my back story?  My thinking is the helicarrier idea never gets up (possibly Sydney gets her cancelled modernisation as well) and a suitable strike fighter is desired for the FAA to supplement the Sea Venom, hence CAC developing a version of the Fury.  This fury could also replace the earlier Sabres, supplementing the Mirage (or even open the possibility of acquiring an interceptor or air superiority type instead of the multi role Miracle).

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #216 on: December 24, 2018, 02:29:56 AM »
I'm curious, could Melbourne have operated the FJ-4 without too much issue, or do I need a different carrier for my back story?


Looking at the weights of the FJ-4 vs the A-4G, I would say it should be possible.  Mind you, looking at the relative performance, the Skyhawk might still have been the better buy.

That said, don't forget these pair of RAN FAA FJ-4s":




From here.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2018, 02:36:28 AM by GTX_Admin »
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Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #217 on: December 24, 2018, 04:22:37 AM »
One more:

RCN-CFJ-4B-Fury by Big Gimper, on Flickr
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Offline kitnut617

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #218 on: December 24, 2018, 04:44:16 AM »
A curiosity question, what was the reason for pointing the cannon downwards ?

Offline Volkodav

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #219 on: December 24, 2018, 10:48:57 AM »
I just like the Fury option as local production by CAC would have been a no brainer if the decision had been made earlier, i.e. mid 50s.

Its perfectly logical as the FAA had just cut its teeth over Korea and the versatility of having a strike aircraft to supplement the FAW would have been fresh.  Then again the carrier force was cut just after this experience so reality indicates that lessons weren't learned. 

Then again lets say the political situation was different and defence was taken more seriously, Vengeance was retained, Sydney was modernised and a more competitive day fighter / strike fighter was required to supplement the Sea Venom.  Perhaps Leviathan could have been bought and completed to a similar / superior standard as Melbourne either instead of Sydney, or in addition to, permitting one carrier in reserve, one serving as a CVS and one as a light strike carrier with Sea Venom and Fury.

Either way the RAN has a requirement for two front line and one training squadron of Furies for the late 50s early 60s.  CAC steps up and develops an Avon Fury with Aden cannon and then also offers the type to the RAAF as a replacement for strike roled Sabres permitting the RAAF to reduce the size of the Mirage order (or to buy something better).  So three RAN FAA sqns, and say three RAAF sqns, maybe even composite regular reserve establishments, and maybe a Lead In Fighter Trainer establishment as well.

Offline finsrin

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #220 on: December 24, 2018, 11:43:56 AM »
F-86 in various derivatives always said "F-86" or "Sabre Jet".
Sure there were other fine USAF & USN jets.  Bet most non-aircraft folks of 1950s knew a Sabre Jet when they saw it even if was a Fury.

Definitive of arrival of jet fighter age in USA and likely most other countries who flew them.

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #221 on: December 25, 2018, 02:35:05 AM »
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #222 on: December 25, 2018, 03:00:24 AM »
Perhaps the ultimate Sabre/Fury derivative:  the North American NA-295 offering to the VA (L) competition which was eventually won in 1964 by the A-7 Corsair II.  This was to be powered by a TF30 turbofan and had several other changes as you can see:






All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline kitnut617

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #223 on: December 25, 2018, 04:57:36 AM »
 :o

Was that really a proposal Greg, I can't find anything about it on the internet. The model is a Unicraft kit apparently but looking at their website, can't find it there either.

Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #224 on: December 25, 2018, 06:41:14 AM »
I went over to Tommy H. Thomason's https://tailspintopics.blogspot.com/ and found nothing.

And SP had the same images posted by Greg/Tommy.

So yes, information on this proposal is scarce.
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