Author Topic: F-5 Freedom Fighter, Tiger, F-20 Tigershark, X-29 concepts and proposals ...  (Read 121904 times)

Offline The Big Gimper

  • Any model will look better in RCAF, SEAC or FAA markings
  • Global Moderator
  • Cut. Cut. Cut. Measure. Cut. Cut. Crap. Toss.
    • Photobucket Modeling Album
Re: F-5 Freedom Fighter, Tiger, F-20 Tigershark, X-29 concepts and proposals ...
« Reply #175 on: November 25, 2016, 03:09:25 AM »
Actually how about an attack coded A-5, no radar but all the warrie air to ground sensors, say a Jag or Harrier GR3 nose and various lumps and bumps for night attack and navigation sensors.


A bit like this one from the first page of this thread:




I like this alot. Now off to the man cave to see to do some dry fitting.
Work in progress ::

I am giving up listing them. They all end up on the shelf of procrastination anyways.

User and abuser of Bothans...

Offline KiwiZac

  • The Modeller Formerly Known As K5054NZ
Re: F-5 Freedom Fighter, Tiger, F-20 Tigershark, X-29 concepts and proposals ...
« Reply #176 on: November 25, 2016, 04:04:51 AM »
I, too, rather like this concept.
Zac in NZ
#avgeek, modelbuilder, photographer, writer. Callsign: "HANDBAG"
https://linktr.ee/zacyates

Offline elmayerle

  • Its about time there was an Avatar shown here...
  • Über Engineer...at least that is what he tells us.
Re: F-5 Freedom Fighter, Tiger, F-20 Tigershark, X-29 concepts and proposals ...
« Reply #177 on: November 25, 2016, 04:30:29 AM »
Actually how about an attack coded A-5, no radar but all the warrie air to ground sensors, say a Jag or Harrier GR3 nose and various lumps and bumps for night attack and navigation sensors.
On a F-5E, start with the short recce nose of the RF-5A, replace the front glass and lower portion with the chisel nose from a Jaguar; for a "Fast FAC" OF-5F, do it to a F-5F but use the sensor element of a suitable pod (Sniper or Lightning occur to me).

Offline Volkodav

  • Counts rivits with his abacus...
  • Much older now...but procrastinating about it
Re: F-5 Freedom Fighter, Tiger, F-20 Tigershark, X-29 concepts and proposals ...
« Reply #178 on: November 25, 2016, 11:52:19 AM »
Actually how about an attack coded A-5, no radar but all the warrie air to ground sensors, say a Jag or Harrier GR3 nose and various lumps and bumps for night attack and navigation sensors.


A bit like this one from the first page of this thread:




Yep, that will do ;)

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: F-5 Freedom Fighter, Tiger, F-20 Tigershark, X-29 concepts and proposals ...
« Reply #179 on: November 26, 2016, 05:16:09 AM »
Random idea:  Israeli F-5A or F-5E instead of Mirage 5/IAI Nesher.  In scheme such as this:


All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline Volkodav

  • Counts rivits with his abacus...
  • Much older now...but procrastinating about it
Re: F-5 Freedom Fighter, Tiger, F-20 Tigershark, X-29 concepts and proposals ...
« Reply #180 on: November 26, 2016, 10:33:17 PM »
Israel takes over the F-20 once the Lavi is cancelled?

Offline elmayerle

  • Its about time there was an Avatar shown here...
  • Über Engineer...at least that is what he tells us.
Re: F-5 Freedom Fighter, Tiger, F-20 Tigershark, X-29 concepts and proposals ...
« Reply #181 on: November 27, 2016, 12:20:37 AM »
Israel takes over the F-20 once the Lavi is cancelled?
Or perhaps goes forward with one of the F-20/Lavi hybrids Horthrop proposed?

Offline Volkodav

  • Counts rivits with his abacus...
  • Much older now...but procrastinating about it
Re: F-5 Freedom Fighter, Tiger, F-20 Tigershark, X-29 concepts and proposals ...
« Reply #182 on: November 27, 2016, 08:28:09 AM »
Sounds good, wasn't there also a proposal to sell the entire project including tooling to India?

Offline elmayerle

  • Its about time there was an Avatar shown here...
  • Über Engineer...at least that is what he tells us.
With the Belcher Bits conversion for the CF-5A, I'm thinking what-if CF-5E and/or CF-20.  IF you want to really confuse people, cross a T-38/F-5B cockpit and nose onto a F-5E or F-20 to make a TF-5E and TF-20 (doable in full scale, too, since Northrop has a production break in the fuselage just aft of the cockpit).

For a bit of nasal surgery, how about the nose of an RF-5E grafted onto a F-20?

Offline ysi_maniac

  • I will die understanding not this world
Cross between F-5E and MiG-21MF


Offline elmayerle

  • Its about time there was an Avatar shown here...
  • Über Engineer...at least that is what he tells us.
Odd thought: The USN and USMC had twin Zuni launchers that fit each of the F-8's Sidewinder rails, how about a USMC ground-pounding F-5 with these on the wing tips and suitable ordnance on the other hard points?  Possibly with the twin nose-wheel set up proposed for the US Army version.

Offline The Big Gimper

  • Any model will look better in RCAF, SEAC or FAA markings
  • Global Moderator
  • Cut. Cut. Cut. Measure. Cut. Cut. Crap. Toss.
    • Photobucket Modeling Album
Re: F-5 Freedom Fighter, Tiger, F-20 Tigershark, X-29 concepts and proposals ...
« Reply #186 on: November 23, 2018, 07:14:36 AM »
Northrop F.20 Tigershark for RNZAF., manufacturers display model, c.1984? (originally presented to PM. Robert Muldoon) MOTAT. (Museum of Transport and Technology), in anti-ship configuration with centreline Sea Eagle, twin fuel tanks and outboard Mavericks. Photo by Paul Martell-Mead

Work in progress ::

I am giving up listing them. They all end up on the shelf of procrastination anyways.

User and abuser of Bothans...

Offline elmayerle

  • Its about time there was an Avatar shown here...
  • Über Engineer...at least that is what he tells us.
Re: F-5 Freedom Fighter, Tiger, F-20 Tigershark, X-29 concepts and proposals ...
« Reply #187 on: November 23, 2018, 10:15:58 AM »
I've seen a similar model for Norway with aircraft-launched Penguins in place of the Mavericks and a Harpoon in place of the Sea Eagle.  For Norway, wingtip rails would probably have IRIS-T AAMs, too.

Offline M.A.D

  • Also likes a bit of arse...
  • Wrote a great story about a Christmas Air Battle
Re: F-5 Freedom Fighter, Tiger, F-20 Tigershark, X-29 concepts and proposals ...
« Reply #188 on: November 23, 2018, 06:23:44 PM »


A beautiful model thanks The Big Gimper!

What a lost opertunity of a should have been IMO!!

M.A.D

Offline The Big Gimper

  • Any model will look better in RCAF, SEAC or FAA markings
  • Global Moderator
  • Cut. Cut. Cut. Measure. Cut. Cut. Crap. Toss.
    • Photobucket Modeling Album
Re: F-5 Freedom Fighter, Tiger, F-20 Tigershark, X-29 concepts and proposals ...
« Reply #189 on: November 23, 2018, 07:32:16 PM »
Thanks Mr. M.A.D. I found a few more.





Work in progress ::

I am giving up listing them. They all end up on the shelf of procrastination anyways.

User and abuser of Bothans...

Offline Volkodav

  • Counts rivits with his abacus...
  • Much older now...but procrastinating about it
Re: F-5 Freedom Fighter, Tiger, F-20 Tigershark, X-29 concepts and proposals ...
« Reply #190 on: November 24, 2018, 09:45:25 PM »
Now just imagine if Piggy had bought the F-20 instead of the RANs Skyhawks and the ANZAC frigates...…..

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: F-5 Freedom Fighter, Tiger, F-20 Tigershark, X-29 concepts and proposals ...
« Reply #191 on: November 25, 2018, 03:04:17 AM »
Now just imagine if Piggy had bought the F-20 instead of the RANs Skyhawks and the ANZAC frigates...…..

Well the F-20s would have been better than Skyhawks though arguably nether offered NZ anything realistically useful.  The ANZACs on the other hand did.
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline Volkodav

  • Counts rivits with his abacus...
  • Much older now...but procrastinating about it
Re: F-5 Freedom Fighter, Tiger, F-20 Tigershark, X-29 concepts and proposals ...
« Reply #192 on: November 28, 2018, 09:09:38 PM »
Now just imagine if Piggy had bought the F-20 instead of the RANs Skyhawks and the ANZAC frigates...…..

Well the F-20s would have been better than Skyhawks though arguably nether offered NZ anything realistically useful.  The ANZACs on the other hand did.

Not a fan of the ANZACs, I do like the RAN ASMD upgrades but not impressed with the platform it was shoehorned into.  Now the OHP FFG on the other hand has actually worked out cheaper to own and operate than the much less capable ANZACs (though the FFGUP is now a case study on how not to run a project).  My personal opinion is the Type 23 would have been the best option but I know an Admiral who literally voted for the M Class.  ;)

Offline M.A.D

  • Also likes a bit of arse...
  • Wrote a great story about a Christmas Air Battle
Re: F-5 Freedom Fighter, Tiger, F-20 Tigershark, X-29 concepts and proposals ...
« Reply #193 on: November 29, 2018, 02:07:50 PM »
Now just imagine if Piggy had bought the F-20 instead of the RANs Skyhawks and the ANZAC frigates...…..

Well the F-20s would have been better than Skyhawks though arguably nether offered NZ anything realistically useful.  The ANZACs on the other hand did.

Not a fan of the ANZACs, I do like the RAN ASMD upgrades but not impressed with the platform it was shoehorned into.  Now the OHP FFG on the other hand has actually worked out cheaper to own and operate than the much less capable ANZACs (though the FFGUP is now a case study on how not to run a project).  My personal opinion is the Type 23 would have been the best option but I know an Admiral who literally voted for the M Class.  ;)

Sorry deviating off topic, but I too thought the M Class was also the better option.....but then again, I would have been very happy with the sensible proposed joint Australian/Malaysian OPV (along with a Hi/Lo.mix of F-18L's and F-20's  :-*)

M.A.D

Offline Rickshaw

  • "Of course, I could be talking out of my hat"
Re: F-5 Freedom Fighter, Tiger, F-20 Tigershark, X-29 concepts and proposals ...
« Reply #194 on: November 29, 2018, 04:02:53 PM »
Sorry deviating off topic, but I too thought the M Class was also the better option.....but then again, I would have been very happy with the sensible proposed joint Australian/Malaysian OPV (along with a Hi/Lo.mix of F-18L's and F-20's  :-*)

M.A.D

Which M-class would that have been?

One factor most people don't understand is that the cheapest item in ship construction is the steel that is used to construct the hull.   As a consequence, ships have been growing in size and capability.  With increased size comes improved sea keeping and increased endurance.  It also provides more space for an increased number of weapons and improved electronics systems.

The ANZAC class were ordered because of that.  A larger ship than an OPV means it can go further and remain on station longer in rougher seas.   The ANZAC class were intended to be patrol frigates.  Which were considerably more capable than either the proposed OPV or the Corvette which was also proposed at the time.

While more aircraft would be welcome, they will never replace capable ships manned by capable personnel who are prepared to put their lives on the line when it matters.   

Offline Volkodav

  • Counts rivits with his abacus...
  • Much older now...but procrastinating about it
Re: F-5 Freedom Fighter, Tiger, F-20 Tigershark, X-29 concepts and proposals ...
« Reply #195 on: November 29, 2018, 09:44:43 PM »
We ae getting miles off topic now and I apologise, but in terms of the ANZAC class the issue I have with the MEKO 200 is a number of design features that have nothing to do with the selected combat system and equipment load outs.  Without going into excessive detail, the Principle Naval Architect I worked with on another project referred to them as glorified pleasure craft, while in comparison, the much maligned FFGs were warships.  Things such as stability margins, bilge arrangements, propulsion access / withdrawal arrangements, ergonomic factors, OH&S / habitability, maintainability.  Again I could go into detail of specific design features and the effects but its pretty tedious, needless to say that these were used as examples of what the navy wanted to avoid when they were finalising how they wanted to build their new destroyers.

An interesting comparison is USN warships are very highly regarded for the capability and reliability of their various systems while RN warships are renowned for their very capable platforms.  Pretty much the ideal combination is US systems on a UK designed warship, i.e. what Australia is finally going to get with the up coming Hunter class variant of the Type 26 Frigate.  Interestingly the RAN was offered a Type 23 and a Mini Type 23 for the ANZAC project, but not with US systems, while the cancelled RAN DDL was basically a RN type platform designed with US systems and prior to that the RAN had wanted an enhanced version of the Type 21 frigate fitted with US sensors and weapons, earlier still a variant of the County Class DLG with Tartar and US radars.  With the MEKO 200 the RAN got US weapons and a mix of systems, following the ASMD upgrades a world standard combat capability, but with a platform that was inferior to either the British or US designs.

Offline dy031101

  • Yuri Fanboy and making cute stuff practical- at least that's the plan anyway
  • Prefers Guns And Tanks Over Swords And Magic
Tiger with bigger sticks
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline elmayerle

  • Its about time there was an Avatar shown here...
  • Über Engineer...at least that is what he tells us.
Tasty!!  Are those missiles available in 1/72 or 1/48?

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Tasty!!  Are those missiles available in 1/72 or 1/48?

Yes - both scales I believe.  Here are some 1/48 options:

All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline elmayerle

  • Its about time there was an Avatar shown here...
  • Über Engineer...at least that is what he tells us.
I'm thinking those would look excellent under the wings of a FX-29B.