M3 Lee APC - General AP Hill

[Buzzbomb]

thanks to the guys on the Ideas and Inspiration pages for the inspirational pix posted to kick this off in the M3/M4 thread.
This M3 Medium tank is not to be confused with the M3 Halftrack, or the M3 light tank (Stuart). You can see why things got names.

Being quite useless at backstories.. here we go.

Once the M3 Tank, called the General Lee or Grant (depending on fitout) by the British, was withdrawn as a gun tank, many of the chassis sat idle. One officer noting how large the superstructure was, both the blessing and the curse.. carrying the 75mm gun but not in a rotating turret, plus the 6-7 man crew, may make a viable Armoured Personnel Carrier.
To that end an example was selected to have the superstructure modified with large hatch/doors, counter sprung to ease opening and could carry 8 fully equipped infantry, 10 if "youse was cozy"
Removal of the gun allowed the M3 Commander Turret fitted to the General Lee version, complete with .30 cal MG to be fitted in the space. It was tiny but still functional and did not require any additional design resources. others just had an open ring the same as the M7 Priest. But at least this conversion provided overhead armoured protection.

Later still this small turret was planned to have a better, more efficient turret, mounting a M2 .50cal, but that never eventuated when these early APC units were withdrawn from service as their lifting capacity was not deemed sufficient.

Academy M3 Lee. Nice enough kit as it is. Enough detail for this build, but still with the slightly incorrect running gear, which again, in this context does not matter.


hack, hack, cut. The basis of the self loading/unloading cargo compartment.

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Makes perfect sense to place that tiny machine gun cupola where the 75mm gun casemate was previously located.  One thing I never really noticed until recently was just how little room there was for a person in that cupola thing.  Contortionist had to have been in the job description to get past the machine gun in that thing.

[Story]

How would the Squad disembark?

I could see this being the genesis of what's now called the Two-side off-load (see Figure 11-3. https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/3-99/fm3-99_2015.pdf), where the side doors had their hinges on the bow side - so when opened, they became splinter shields for the disembarking troops.

The leap from on top of a tank hull to the ground can be jarring, particularly when loaded up with field gear and weapon.


The other thing to think about is in Armored Infantry Regiments, the "driver and one or two squad members would remain with the halftrack to operate the machine gun" (p.38 https://books.google.com/books?id=MTW1CwAAQBAJ&pg=PA15&lpg=PA15&dq=ww2+us+eight+man+squad&source=bl&ots=SQefMSWG8T&sig=ACfU3U06e1H4y1LER_PnpDAQQjfGWb5JEg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiewMW1l5rpAhV1YjUKHaTpCY0Q6AEwGXoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=squad&f=false ).

So could this vehicle fit a 12 man squad, if the driver and vehicle commander were counted?

Also, Smoke Grenade Launchers would be good.

[LemonJello]

Interesting. Looks good so far.

[Buzzbomb]

How would the Squad disembark?
The leap from on top of a tank hull to the ground can be jarring, particularly when loaded up with field gear and weapon.
The other thing to think about is in Armored Infantry Regiments, the "driver and one or two squad members would remain with the halftrack to operate the machine gun"
So could this vehicle fit a 12 man squad, if the driver and vehicle commander were counted?
Also, Smoke Grenade Launchers would be good.

All very salient points on where I want to take this. Luckily with the benefit of hindsight I am planning to address most of this. I hope.
The first point is the most pressing. The top of the Lee is very high, so this has been discounted off the bat. I have built a 1/35 Defrocked Priest (Kangaroo BTW the Italeri "Kangaroo" isn't that good a start for a Normandy version. Use a Dragon M7 Mid/Early as a basis) and getting in and out is highly impractical. The RAM Kangaroo was a little better.  But these were really never supposed to deploy infantry in battle conditions.

So far I plan to have the side doors fold down, with a pop down step. So fully laden infantry can clamber down over the guards/running gear only. The top hatch to hinge up a bit to give some headroom, helmet or not a whack on the scone onto armour is not pleasant (Some experience there during IMT training). My minds eye sees a cable/winch mechanism to close them up.

My time line is post Africa into Sicily/Italy with these being withdrawn before D-Day, so pre the formation of the APC Regiments. So I see this as more of a Battle Taxi, with crew being drawn from Tank resources initially and as such would stay with the vehicle. I am really hoping I can get a squeezy full 10 Man British Infantry section in, if not, 8 is probably a good compromise.
Considering the Universal Carrier could doctrinely hold 4 men this would appear to be a great advance with the benefit of overhead armour.

Smoke launchers.. certainly. This will be a British type innovation/conversion.
I want to see if I can minimize the amount of "workshop" time and resources to make this practical. Much like the very practical NA75 Churchill tank, another Sicily/Italy innovation then never saw service anywhere else, no matter how practical it was.

Again I find myself doing the hand wringing of practical whiffery compromises.

Later update, a bit of proof of concept building. Pretty much that is what my mind eye sees, lets see if it can be delivered

[Story]

Later update, a bit of proof of concept building. Pretty much that is what my mind eye sees, lets see if it can be delivered
 

Thinking like an End User, "that'll work".

PS: I had to go look up that TO&E https://www.battleorder.org/uk-rifle-co-1944

[apophenia]

Loving this M3 'Kangaroo' 

[GTX_Admin]

Looking good.

[Frank3k]

It looks good! I would put a figure next to it to make sure that step is needed/at the best height.

[Buzzbomb]

The Mojo is with us.. so work continues on this. Bad luck for the WNW Sopwith Camel I should be doing.

I digress ! So here we go.
Test fit for 10 man section and 2 crew.. a bit agricultural but serves the purpose.. very squeezy, but for the average PBI.. better than walking !

Ok, this is pretty much all the major construction work and plastic cards bits





Tried to keep it as modular as possible to minimize the post interior paint construction fiddliness.
This was a second hand kit so of course two of the hatches are missing for the Aux Turret and the tracks !

Still to do

• more welds to be added
• Detail up the other door.
• Cobble up the open/close mechanism
• Stowage rack on engine deck and stores/greeblies
• Paint shop
• Maybe a figure or two

[Story]

Very realistically executed.

[The Big Gimper]

Oh my eyes!!!!! I can't see!!!!

 

[GTX_Admin]

The post war Kazak version was less than successful...

[finsrin]

Skipping over 2020 beach wear.  Brilliant concept and execution of turning Lee into APC. 

[Frank3k]

Looks good; the hinges look really good. The only change I'd make would be to add a strip of plastic to the L channels in front and back of the hatches - it would deflect some bullets that would otherwise go right through.

[ChernayaAkula]

Cool concept! 

<...> better than walking !<...>

Sure is! 

[elmayerle]

Very believable concept very well executed.

[Old Wombat]

 

[Story]

Totally in hand grenade range - check out the side doors on the M-44
http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=1334.msg171126#msg171126

[Buzzbomb]

So outside of a couple of issues just spotted, this is done

Interior painting


Pretty much zipped up


Mediterranean Theatre Scheme of Light Mud and Tarmac, Sicily/Italy



Tracks were sourced from the Ancient Tamiya Lee and do not quite fit 100% and with the dodgy End Connector locations, but loathe to burn a set of Bronco T48 indi links on this sort of build.

[finsrin]

Particularly like this kit-bash concept and build.  Never would thought of it.  Creative change for old M3. 

[LemonJello]

Yeah! That is looking every bit the business.  I like the camo scheme alot.

[Jeffry Fontaine]

That looks so much better with a good coat of paint!  Impressive.

[Frank3k]

Awesome paint job and weathering!

[Story]

That works.