Author Topic: Tophe's slanting views  (Read 356241 times)

Online AXOR

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Re: Tophe's slanting views
« Reply #875 on: November 19, 2016, 07:45:57 PM »
 :-* XFou-38 is brilliant
Alex

Re: Tophe's slanting views
« Reply #876 on: November 19, 2016, 10:50:39 PM »
Giraffe-ish but nice :)

Offline ericr

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Re: Tophe's slanting views
« Reply #877 on: November 21, 2016, 01:49:24 AM »
:-* XFou-38 is brilliant

yes! and it is very doable in plastic !!!


Offline ericr

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Re: Tophe's slanting views
« Reply #878 on: November 21, 2016, 01:50:18 AM »
Giraffe-ish but nice :)

and Giraffes are great  :D

Offline Tophe

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Re: Tophe's slanting views
« Reply #879 on: November 25, 2016, 02:49:06 AM »
Thanks a lot!
So... I go on and on... You know, the A-4F Syhawk with its hump was not the first dromedary airplane: the DDR-38A came before. The B version was more a camel, and the C (C-like-Camel) even featured 4 legs and teeth and no engine...

Offline Tophe

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Re: Tophe's slanting views
« Reply #880 on: November 27, 2016, 11:48:52 PM »
The Spitfire Floatplanes (Floatfires?) are very famous from Real World Officials, but... top secret (or fantasy?) are the Spitfire Flying Boats (Spitfboats):

Offline Tophe

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Re: Tophe's slanting views
« Reply #881 on: December 10, 2016, 03:27:10 PM »
As a revival of the Borel-Odier 1913 (see the magazine "Le Trait d'Union" 290 Nov-Dec2016), the BOd-38A was featuring spat-booms. So did the Bod-38B & C, in a twin-boom way, no more triplex-boom:

Offline Brian da Basher

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Re: Tophe's slanting views
« Reply #882 on: December 10, 2016, 11:15:01 PM »
Wow these are fantastic, mon ami!

I really like the long fuselage versions you posted on Nov. 19th but of course, the spatted varieties are my favorites!

The third one is most pleasing to me and I think you may have invented tail boom spats!

This is the first time I've ever seen such sweet, streamlined spatted landing gear like this!
 
Very, very wonderful indeed!
 :-* :-* :-*
Brian da Basher

Offline Tophe

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Re: Tophe's slanting views
« Reply #883 on: December 11, 2016, 02:54:03 PM »
Thanks a lot, so wonderful words...

In fact, my delirium may have been the first spat-boom airplanes, but similar occurred with float-boom seaplanes, like the Pierre Levasseur PL.200:
https://www.google.fr/search?q=levasseur+pl-500&biw=1455&bih=705&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwivlaf3wuvQAhWCTRoKHTmJBEgQsAQIGQ#tbm=isch&q=levasseur+pl-200

Offline Tophe

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Re: Tophe's slanting views
« Reply #884 on: December 11, 2016, 03:45:31 PM »
In fact, my delirium may have been the first spat-boom airplanes, but similar occurred with float-boom seaplanes, like the Pierre Levasseur PL.200:
https://www.google.fr/search?q=levasseur+pl-
In 1928 a Dornier push-pull model featured also float-booms, see http://speedbirds.forumactif.org/t51-les-concepts-allemand-pour-la-coupe-schneider

Offline Tophe

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Re: Tophe's slanting views
« Reply #885 on: December 14, 2016, 12:19:53 PM »
Spat-planes are not my invention (I just applied them to a P-38 basis below): I found them in an Italian magazine of 1936.

Offline Brian da Basher

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Re: Tophe's slanting views
« Reply #886 on: December 14, 2016, 07:34:31 PM »
This design is especially nice, Tophe!

The biplane wings perfectly compliment that incredibly streamlined spatted landing gear!

Brian da Basher

Offline Tophe

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Re: Tophe's slanting views
« Reply #887 on: December 15, 2016, 01:11:37 AM »
Thanks!
The (non-twin-boom) source of spat plane is at www.avia-it.com/act/biblioteca/periodici/PDF%20Riviste/Ala%20d%27Italia/L'ALA%20D'ITALIA%201936%2006.pdf
page 41 of the magazine of 1936 = page 34/68 of the pdf file.

Offline Brian da Basher

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Re: Tophe's slanting views
« Reply #888 on: December 15, 2016, 02:03:30 AM »
That's some great research, mon ami!

I've never come across this design before. It reminds me of the famous DH Dragon Rapide but with much more streamlined landing gear!

Great find, Tophe! Thank you for posting!

Brian da Basher

Offline Tophe

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Re: Tophe's slanting views
« Reply #889 on: December 17, 2016, 02:10:32 AM »
Thanks!

It reminds me of the famous DH Dragon Rapide

Ahem... the Dragon Rapide (as well as the Lightning Rapide below) has no "spats holding wings", this is less sexy... ;)

Offline Tophe

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Re: Tophe's slanting views
« Reply #890 on: December 18, 2016, 07:38:00 PM »
Lightning quadricopters inspired by the Ehang-184:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Tophe's slanting views
« Reply #891 on: January 06, 2017, 02:33:04 PM »
The P-38 Lightning's nose was long for the nose-wheel mainly (I don't like guns), but with 2 noses, only one side needs this long nose, providing a new kind of asymmetry... (P-38ANNW-1 & -2):

Offline Tophe

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Re: Tophe's slanting views
« Reply #892 on: January 13, 2017, 01:00:51 PM »
The P-38LR had lots of room for fuel:

Offline tankmodeler

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Re: Tophe's slanting views
« Reply #893 on: January 14, 2017, 03:46:52 AM »
The P-38 Lightning's nose was long for the nose-wheel mainly (I don't like guns), but with 2 noses, only one side needs this long nose, providing a new kind of asymmetry... (P-38ANNW-1 & -2):


What purpose does the asymmetric or double pod design serve?  Two pods like that, so close together, cause greatly increased drag so doing it needs some sort of reason.

Offline tankmodeler

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Re: Tophe's slanting views
« Reply #894 on: January 14, 2017, 03:48:32 AM »
The P-38LR had lots of room for fuel:
The rear landing gear really shouldn't be that far back the aircraft; would break the nose gear during landing rotation.

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Tophe's slanting views
« Reply #895 on: January 14, 2017, 03:51:07 AM »
What purpose does the asymmetric or double pod design serve?  Two pods like that, so close together, cause greatly increased drag so doing it needs some sort of reason.

Does it need a reason beyond artistic aesthetics?
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Offline Tophe

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Re: Tophe's slanting views
« Reply #896 on: January 14, 2017, 03:47:44 PM »
The P-38LR had lots of room for fuel:
The rear landing gear really shouldn't be that far back the aircraft; would break the nose gear during landing rotation.
why was the SE-100 built then ? I think it can work, maybe this is not the best, but there is probably a balance to decide. :)


What purpose does the asymmetric or double pod design serve?  Two pods like that, so close together, cause greatly increased drag so doing it needs some sort of reason.
Does it need a reason beyond artistic aesthetics?
Thanks GTX. Anyway, I can invent a little reason: the second nose (cockpit-less) is holding the front landing gear, without mixing this with holding cockpit. Maybe the boss of the design bureau would refuse it immediately (without ever building it, without proposing it to customer) but a bad student in design could have proposed it to the design team, this is enough for me ;)


Offline tankmodeler

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Re: Tophe's slanting views
« Reply #897 on: January 17, 2017, 05:11:42 AM »
why was the SE-100 built then ? I think it can work, maybe this is not the best, but there is probably a balance to decide. :)
To be honest, it's sometime hard to understand why the French aircraft designers of the 20s and 30s did anything as they made an awful lot of really bad mistakes (frequently resulting in appallingly ugly aircraft). In this case it appears that the intent was to reduce landing gear weight. However, if you look at the SE 100, you'll see that the nose gear is enormous. In order to accommodate the wheels in the tail and to reduce the amount the nose drops after landing, the fuselage is also swept downward to place the tailplane and wheels closer to the ground without needing landing gear legs at all. What you don't see is that the tail structure has had to be beefed up to take the loads considerably more than otherwise.

There's a reason other aircraft didn't copy this arrangement. It's overly heavy, if somewhat simpler, mechanically.

What purpose does the asymmetric or double pod design serve?  Two pods like that, so close together, cause greatly increased drag so doing it needs some sort of reason.
Does it need a reason beyond artistic aesthetics?

To me it does because Tophe is drawing airplanes and airplanes come with a body of knowledge and physics that define certain aspects of their shape and function. There are a couple of sayings in the aircraft design world, one is "form follows function" and the other is "if it looks right it is right". Regarding the first, drawing something where the form violates that body out knowledge without some functional justification pushes the design aesthetically into the "unattractive" regime. Pushed too far and it no longer "looks right" and so isn't right. It jars against the senses of what looks right and, again, becomes unattractive.

I realise we're discussing (arguing) matters of taste here. I'm by no means unimaginative or unwilling to take aesthetic leaps, but for me (again, I stress for me) if one is going to use aircraft elements as purely aesthetic elements, why bother retaining any of the forms of physical reality? Why have the wings horizontal? Why have the wheels on the bottom? If it's pure art, why be limited to any of the strictures of reality? However if you are limiting yourself to even most of the structures of real life, then you also start to become affected by the aesthetics and physics of real life, in which case things need some sort of internally coherent rationale for their existence. And, if they speak reasonably to that rationale become able to be appreciated for their aesthetics.

In other words, if one insists on drawing something that looks like an airplane one leaves oneself open to the design being critiqued as an airplane and not as cubist or surrealist art. Make it obviously art and the airplane critiques would fall away and the pure aesthetics become the reason for viewing, not the airplane-ness.

Paul

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Tophe's slanting views
« Reply #898 on: January 17, 2017, 05:31:11 PM »
At least the wheels have the correct number of spokes and there is not a dodgy old style Tamiya track in sight.  ;)

Keep up the good work Tophe, your work never fails to bring a smile to my face.

Offline Tophe

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Re: Tophe's slanting views
« Reply #899 on: January 18, 2017, 02:11:10 AM »
Thanks a lot VolkoDav!

But, sorry, I will be serious now, even over serious. Today at my lab (microbiological lab), we received the new bacteria threatening the World, having killed already 6 billion human beings, and more soon... this was a Gram positive bug, with a shape of... ahem, a "twin-boom" thingy... (CIP means Collection Institut Pasteur, or maybe Cargo Intelligent Pursuit). ??? >:D
(the view below is enlarged by a 1,000,000 factor)