Beyond The Sprues
Modelling => Ideas & Inspiration => Aero-space => Topic started by: GTX_Admin on December 15, 2011, 03:53:17 PM
-
Hi folks,
What about a 4 engined, stretched B-25? Very crude rendition below:
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/B-25C1.jpg)
Regards,
Greg
-
Needs more tail (vertical and horizontal) just to keep things in proportion. What about the gun nose version with four engines? Might be able to carry a pair of 75mm cannons instead of one.
-
I like the look of it. Maybe too hard to keep the tricycle landing gear, though. I know "Rita", the giant Japanese 4-engined bomber, still had a nosewheel, but for some reason in your drawing it looks like it would have to be a tail-dragger.
>Needs more tail <
Hey, EVERYONE could use a little more tail! :slow:
-
Crude side view:
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/B-25C2.jpg)
A bit like an Four engined American AW Albemarle maybe...
Regards,
Greg
-
Much like a B-24 R-2800 radials.
Bill
-
First off, a real-life prototype, the North American NA-148 Executive Transport. I had trouble finding good reference for this aircraft as there are few Mitchell resources actually dealing with the subject.
(http://aviadesign.online.fr/images/naa-148-profiles.jpg)
And now, let's take a walk on the whif side... When Japan declared war to the U.S. in December 1941, North American Aviation figured it would be good to develop a medium-size, single-tail transport using the NA-40 Mitchell as a basis. They built a single prototype of the NA-86 Battlewagon and sent it to U.S.A.A.F. for trials. However, there were already plenty of Douglas DC-3s, and NAA's production capacity was needed elsewhere, with the Mustang and Mitchell. The Battlewagon was therefore rejected and returned to NAA, which cannibalized the airframe for Mitchell spare parts.
NOTE: the real-life NA-86 is unknown, one in a handful of so-called "charge numbers" that has not been identified by researchers; that's why I chose to use it for this imaginary aircraft, even though the number most certainly corresponded to a real project at the time.
(http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/327/7/8/north_american_86_battlewagon_by_bispro-d33g96n.jpg)
Finally, the North American XB-25T Twin Mitchellwas done more for the laughs, really, as a gift to Tophe.
(http://aviadesign.online.fr/images/naa-twinmitchell.jpg)
-
Bristol Hercules engines and suitable props
rather round vertical twin tails
Horizontal tail has significantly greater sweep and chord.
Side blisters and rear turret removed.
Conventional rather than tricycle gear.
RAF markings
-
The executive transport version or the "Battlewagon" is quite plausible (look at the distinct family ties between the DB-7/A-20 and the DC-5 (what few of them were made). -chuckle- I'd go one bit farther on the executive transport and put a private lounge back where the tail gunner would be on the bomber.
The 4-engined bird looks nice and I suspect all four engines forward of the CG would do wonders to make the tricycle gear work.
How about an uprated version with R3350s in place of R2800s?
Perhaps an "early" version looking more like a scaled up NA-40 with the glass nose and the big clear canopy?
-
Bristol Hercules engines and suitable props
rather round vertical twin tails
Horizontal tail has significantly greater sweep and chord.
Side blisters and rear turret removed.
Conventional rather than tricycle gear.
RAF markings
Mmmmm....
-
Mmmmm....
Yes, it's an attempt to make a Mitchell take on Albamarle characteristics.
Several years back there was a Monogram 1/48 Mitchell that was converted to a turboprop ASW tail dragger on display at the Seattle Spring Show. I swore there was going to be a time where I did a chop/channel job on the same kit. ;D
-
That does not sound like a pretty conversion. The B-25 always looked so modern. I don't think giving it an Albemarle makeover and tail dragger configuration is going to do kind things to a B-25, aesthetically. BTW, Daryl, I'd love to see a picture of that conversion for this thread if you can find one.
Cheers,
Logan
-
It would indeed be aesthetically a retrograde step. :-) But then again, many aircraft based whiffs regress when the knife hits the styrene. It's just tough to pull off a cosmetic enhancement.
I'll see what I can do. It will have to be pencil and paper as I have no pixel based capabilities or skills regretably.
On the other hand, I ordered in enough Mitchells so I can also do a version of the Battlewagon shown above. That should be a step forward aesthetically methinks.
Cheers,
Daryl J.
-
Mmmmm....
Yes, it's an attempt to make a Mitchell take on Albamarle characteristics.
Several years back there was a Monogram 1/48 Mitchell that was converted to a turboprop ASW tail dragger on display at the Seattle Spring Show. I swore there was going to be a time where I did a chop/channel job on the same kit. ;D
I remember seeing that what-if B-25 on the table at the Seattle show. Painted up in a dark grey with red stars. The builder did an excellent job of converting it to the tail dragger configuration.
-
Jeffry, that's the one. MAD boom out the nose too if I recall correctly.
-
Jeffry, that's the one. MAD boom out the nose too if I recall correctly.
I thought the MAD boom was mounted aft. Do not recall much sticking out of the front of the model save for the normal nose. I recall someone mentioning in polite and casual conversation later about the model in question and that they had overheard someone telling their girlfriend/wife/daughter that as a pilot they had encountered that very same aircraft while flying in what ever branch of service they were in. Not putting too much into that statement but it was amusing to hear at the time.
-
I thought the MAD boom was mounted aft. Do not recall much sticking out of the front of the model save for the normal nose. I recall someone mentioning in polite and casual conversation later about the model in question and that they had overheard someone telling their girlfriend/wife/daughter that as a pilot they had encountered that very same aircraft while flying in what ever branch of service they were in. Not putting too much into that statement but it was amusing to hear at the time.
That's correct. Wish dig. photography was available then, I'd have had a bunch of photos of it.
Some years back someone on Hyperscale showed a 1/72 Hasegawa B-25 missing all aft turrets in SEA Vietnam paint. That was cool too.
-
(http://photos.smugmug.com/OLDPB/i-jZXqp89/0/b0536e76/O/NAA_XBOMBER_01.png)
(http://photos.smugmug.com/OLDPB/i-4dppJbZ/0/55343659/O/B25X_01.jpg)
(http://photos.smugmug.com/OLDPB/i-hzHKDCf/0/739e49fd/O/NA98X_01.png)
-
The only known photo of the sole NA-148 Executive Transport and an artist's cutaway view from the period. NOTE: This is NOT a whif!!!
-
I was looking through my Detail and Scale volume on the B-25 earlier today and I suddenly got an idea!
Take the floats off of this and add them to a PBJ-1J!
(http://www.dc3history.org/images/float5.jpg)
Perfect for when those island bases don't exist or are out of commission.
-
([url]http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww291/joncarrfarrelly/NAA_XBOMBER_01.png[/url])
This....err..... is.... I mean... WHOA! (http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m309/ChernayaAkula/Emoticons/worship.gif)
-
And a real project, too! Sometimes reality is more powerful that whiffery!
-
Take the floats off of this and add them to a PBJ-1J!
([url]http://www.dc3history.org/images/float5.jpg[/url])
Now that's an idea --- :) And you can buy a conversion set of those floats in 1/72
This DC-3 (C-47C) still exists and was at a Fly-In a few years ago.
Perfect for when those island bases don't exist or are out of commission.
That's the same as what I had in mind when I built this.
-
I remember that one Kitnut; friggin awesome! Where can you get those floats and who makes them? Are they atrociously expensive? I have an old 1/72 B-25 in the stash. Guess I'll add this version to this list since the floats exist. Would look neat loading a torpedo from a barge while anchored alongisde a small dock. Mmmmmm I'm really liking this idea 8)
-
C-47 float conversion can be got at the Big H'
http://www.hannants.co.uk/product/RVHP72094 (http://www.hannants.co.uk/product/RVHP72094)
The floats I used for my 1/72 scale Nottingham came from a 1/24 Trumpeter Spitfire Floatplane
Here's a couple of other pics of the C-47 floats used in a couple of projects
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa263/kitnut617/Misc%20Photos/XC-47CFloatplane001-1.jpg)
-
Inline engines anyone:
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/More%20Creations/AlB25.jpg)
-
Or Klimov powerplants for the Lend Lease versions.
-
Or Klimov powerplants for the Lend Lease versions.
Yep, that would work.
-
My first Mitchell profile was a Coastal Command variant with cannon nose & Griffon engines.
Regards,
John
-
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/1a35295u_0.jpg)
B-25 bomber final assembly line at North American Aviation works, Inglewood, Calif."
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/1a35285u_0.jpg)
B-25 bombers on the outdoor assembly line at North American Aviation, almost ready for their first test flight. Kansas City, Kansas.
Both from 1942 and Kodachrome transparency by Alfred Palmer.
-
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/1a35291u_0.jpg)
B-25 bomber assembly hall, North American Aviation, Kansas City - 1942 Kodachrome transparency by Alfred Palmer
-
um!, all the photos are white squares with red crosses Greg
-
Take the floats off of this and add them to a PBJ-1J!
Time to stop thinking United States Navy and start thinking Playstation 2- strap a torpedo or two on it, add nightfighting aid, and launch it (or a multiple of it) off the back of a seaplane cruiser, and boom! There goes the night for the Yamato and Musashi crew.
-
The Shorpy site won't link, and it's all from the Library of Congress site anyhow:
http://www.loc.gov/pictures/search/?va=all&co=fsac&sp=1&st=grid&q=Alfred+Palmer+north+american&fi=all&sg=false&op=AND (http://www.loc.gov/pictures/search/?va=all&co=fsac&sp=1&st=grid&q=Alfred+Palmer+north+american&fi=all&sg=false&op=AND)
(http://lcweb2.loc.gov/service/pnp/fsac/1a35000/1a35200/1a35293v.jpg)
North American B-25 bomber is prepared for painting on the outside assembly line, North American Aviation, Inc., Inglewood, Calif.
The Palmer colour photos from the Farm Security Administration/Office of War Information Color Photographs collection:
http://www.loc.gov/pictures/search/?q=Alfred+Palmer+&sp=1&sb=&st=grid&co=fsac&sg=false&fi=all&op=AND&va=all&c= (http://www.loc.gov/pictures/search/?q=Alfred+Palmer+&sp=1&sb=&st=grid&co=fsac&sg=false&fi=all&op=AND&va=all&c=)
The home page for the image collection:
http://www.loc.gov/pictures/collection/fsac/ (http://www.loc.gov/pictures/collection/fsac/)
The image options include large hi-res tiffs (@190MB a piece).
-
Doh!!! The problem with hot linking - sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't.... :-X
-
Looking #24 with inlines. I'm thinking you have one heck of quick B-25 by using a P-3 Orion 4000+ hp turbo prop on each wing. More than four times the horse power of WW2. Out climb the F8F? zoom-zoom ;)
-
North American Aviation had a surplus store/yard next to LAX (long since gone) - they had everything from fasteners to plexiglass panels and canopies to an engine-less jet for sale. I know they had some P-51 parts as well as some B-25 parts for sale. This was in the late 70's/early 80s.
-
Looking #24 with inlines. I'm thinking you have one heck of quick B-25 by using a P-3 Orion 4000+ hp turbo prop on each wing. More than four times the horse power of WW2. Out climb the F8F? zoom-zoom ;)
A P-3 style T56 installation on each side would likely take a complete re-stressing of the wing and fuselage to deal with it but it's not immediately impossible. This installation would work with the main landing gear bay in the nacelle. Frankly, I wonder how a more modest upgrade, with R3350s, would work. More specifically, fitting the B-25 with the engines and cowlings from a pair of Skyraiders.
-
Having flown in both B-25 and P2 I can relate to B-25 and 3350. Be a mover with the 3350s. And more so with T-56.
In styrene the conversion works well for an Air Force which keeps aircraft a long time and does many updates.
Bill
-
By the way, there was no real B-25 prototype (XB-25/YB-25, etc). They just started at B-25. That's a bit of trivia most people don't know about the way US designations used to work. They didn't start at -A; they started at sans suffix. The B-25A was actually the 2nd model built or, if you'd rather, the first variant (which is really what the letters noted). For all practical purposes, the first production models are generally -A models, since they're a variant of the XB-## prototype or YP-## pre-production aircraft. This was eventually changed for a number of reasons, not least of which being that 'B-25' in this instance can refer to the specific model that were those initial 24 aircraft were constructed as or it can refer to the whole family. It's ambiguous, but it's used correctly in either case.
Also, there wasn't anything inherently wrong with the first B-25s as aircraft. As bombers, however, they did suffer from a lack of stability. Since they also lacked armor and self-sealing fuel tanks, they were unsuitable as combat aircraft. Instead, they were used as training aircraft. I've read that the first Soviet pilots trained on the B-25 in the US were trained on the initial production models with full-span dihedral, no armor, etc. They had been initially trained as fighter pilots in the VVS and--to their immense delight--those initial B-25s handled quite like large fighters. There were a lot of issues with Soviet pilots tossing the planes around the sky in ways no one ever intended. They'd land with rivets in the tail missing and tail gunners with cracked ribs. In one case, US fighter pilots were teaching them evasion techniques as they flew P-43s against them in mock combat. The Soviet fighter pilots in B-25s were nonplussed and quickly got on the tails of their would-be pursuers, even forcing a P-43 into the ground in low level air-to-air combat!
That should give you some idea of just how "hot" of an airplane those initial B-25s were!
(http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/060605-F-1234S-001.jpg)
Cheers,
Logan
-
Cool!
Now how many "XB-25" variants can we come up with here? ;D
-
Cool!
Now how many "XB-25" variants can we come up with here? ;D
I've long been thinking about one with a single tail...
-
Cool!
Now how many "XB-25" variants can we come up with here? ;D
I've long been thinking about one with a single tail...
Was done in the real world
http://www.anigrand.com/AA2068_XB-28.htm (http://www.anigrand.com/AA2068_XB-28.htm)
-
Bigger wing (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=2038.0).
How about 4 engines?
A poor man's B-26K?
-
How about 4 engines?
Like the very first post in this thread perhaps? ;)
-
It could also be a good candidate for a turbo-prop, along the lines of my Sunderland project using Dart engines
-
I always thought the NA-40 was considered, if not the prototype of the B-25, the closest thing to it:
(http://www.aerofiles.com/noram-na40.jpg)
(http://www.aviastar.org/pictures/usa/na_na-40.gif)
-
I'll agree, it's the closest thing to it, but it's far from a true prototype. I doubt there was a single panel or structure that was the same between the two!
Cheers,
Logan
-
How about 4 engines?
Like the very first post in this thread perhaps? ;)
My ADD does not allow me to view posts not in the current calendar year. ;D
-
So, I was looking at this picture today and I realize that from this angle, the B-25 could be a twin boom design.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v132/loganov/My%20Pictures/Doolittle%20Raiders%20Reunion%20-%20Wallpapers/DSC_0010.jpg)
Tophe, have you already tried this modification to the B-25?
Cheers,
Logan
-
Would the tail gunner be at the aft end of the fuselage pod or in a separate pod, all by his lonesome, in the middle of the horizontal stabilizer between the booms?
-
He could either be in the tail (the Fw 189 twin boom aircraft had this) or you could just go the route of the B-25B through -G and just do the clear plexiglass tail and use the turrets for all around defense.
Cheers,
Logan
-
don't know how the yanks would design that rear-gunner station but here's how the RAF version would be done ...
-
So, I was looking at this picture today and I realize that from this angle, the B-25 could be a twin boom design.
Great idea! I love it when a RW picture from a different perspective creates a new concept.
-
(http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2011/120/9/0/concept_bomber_by_mrpicard21ec-d3f86aq.jpg)
-
What does one call a B-25 with a V-tail? B-XXV?
Cheers,
Logan
-
Looks more liek an X-tail to me...but you could start that thing with the front end of an early B-24....
-
I'm in luck, B-XXV still works for an X-tail!
Cheers,
Logan
-
Nice find.
-
I have no idea what it's supposed to be, but I want one! :)
-
I still want one in USAF SEA markings.
-
([url]http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2011/120/9/0/concept_bomber_by_mrpicard21ec-d3f86aq.jpg[/url])
Old, this may be, but very cool! 8)
-
A poor man's B-26K?
Refitted with more powerful engines (say, the same engine and cowling installation as the strafer noted earlier), tip tanks, and hardpoints under the outboard wings? I could just see that in USAF SEA night intruder camouflage and markings.
-
A poor man's B-26K?
Refitted with more powerful engines (say, the same engine and cowling installation as the strafer noted earlier), tip tanks, and hardpoints under the outboard wings? I could just see that in USAF SEA night intruder camouflage and markings.
I wonder if it would be possible to fit the 75mm gun in G/H with an autoloader? Or would it still be more useful to have the maximum amount of MG's? Could see this instead of Spad as the "interim gunship".
-
RAF Coastal Command version with one or more Molins guns and under wing rockets?
-
The USN/USMC PBJs were often used in ASW roles. What if it was decided post war to develop them in a more dedicated version, possibly for foreign operators? Maybe bash parts of a S-2 and a PBJ together - say the radar in the belly changed over, torps in bomb bay, MAD boom instead of tail gun, sonobouy launchers ala S-2...
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/B08D5931-78B3-4DEA-B02E-F7E4B8AA8FC0_zpsvo1giobz.jpeg)
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-3BMtwfNAHY0/TVasxJTF-ZI/AAAAAAAABDc/lC4D9zRqXow/s1600/s2f-3+web.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/933A2E00-B32F-4747-B456-6F9C6C4E6C6B_zpsezbvhlnh.jpeg)
-
Plausible. Good subject for kitbash.
-
RAF Coastal Command version with one or more Molins guns and under wing rockets?
Single Molins with reloads. :smiley:
Two Molins would add too much weight and take up a fair amount of real estate.
-
Good point.