Author Topic: F-18 Hornet and Super Hornet Ideas and Inspiration  (Read 92691 times)

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: F-18 Hornet and Super Hornet Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #150 on: June 22, 2019, 03:13:17 AM »
I reckon a German one in this sort of scheme in the mid-late '80s would look cool:

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Offline jcf

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Re: F-18 Hornet and Super Hornet Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #151 on: June 23, 2019, 02:28:32 AM »
Or the F-104 Marine scheme.



Heck, schemes from all F-104 users Sale of the Century 2.0.  ;D :icon_fsm:
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: F-18 Hornet and Super Hornet Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #152 on: June 23, 2019, 02:45:35 AM »
Oh yeah! :smiley:

At least one of those F-104 schemes has come to fruition, kind of:

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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: F-18 Hornet and Super Hornet Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #153 on: June 23, 2019, 03:26:20 AM »
If the Israeli one had come off:




Some more from Chris:











« Last Edit: June 23, 2019, 03:31:21 AM by GTX_Admin »
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: F-18 Hornet and Super Hornet Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #154 on: June 23, 2019, 03:27:06 AM »
And some more Australian ones:







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Offline M.A.D

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Re: F-18 Hornet and Super Hornet Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #155 on: July 11, 2019, 05:17:40 AM »
I'm just wondering as to the feasibility of a weight reduction program of the McDonnell Douglas F/A-18C/D Hornet - a Super Weight Improvement Program (SWIP) as applied to the General Dynamics/Grumman F-111B if you like, could have been applied during manufacturing, so as to give the Marine Nationale a more effective derivative of the Hornet for operation aboard it's Clemenceau-class carrier's?
Does anyone have any idea as to how much weight was saved from the F-111B SWIP (appreciating that I think this might have included the substitution of the F-111's escape capsule for conventional ejection seats, IIRC)

P.S. I've chosen the F/A-18C/D variant because of its higher thrust F404-GE-402 (although this begs the question could the F/A-18A/B be retrofitted/ accommodate the F404-GE-402 with ease??; and was the F/A-18C/D inherently heavier than the F/A-18A/B??

Granted, if it could be done, I'm guessing it wouldn't look any different to the legacy F/A-18A/B/C/D........


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Offline M.A.D

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Re: F-18 Hornet and Super Hornet Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #156 on: July 11, 2019, 05:19:21 AM »
And some more Australian ones:









Love and miss Coops' amazing talented profiles 😢

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Offline elmayerle

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Re: F-18 Hornet and Super Hornet Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #157 on: July 11, 2019, 07:09:08 AM »
I'm just wondering as to the feasibility of a weight reduction program of the McDonnell Douglas F/A-18C/D Hornet - a Super Weight Improvement Program (SWIP) as applied to the General Dynamics/Grumman F-111B if you like, could have been applied during manufacturing, so as to give the Marine Nationale a more effective derivative of the Hornet for operation aboard it's Clemenceau-class carrier's?
Does anyone have any idea as to how much weight was saved from the F-111B SWIP (appreciating that I think this might have included the substitution of the F-111's escape capsule for conventional ejection seats, IIRC)

P.S. I've chosen the F/A-18C/D variant because of its higher thrust F404-GE-402 (although this begs the question could the F/A-18A/B be retrofitted/ accommodate the F404-GE-402 with ease??; and was the F/A-18C/D inherently heavier than the F/A-18A/B??

Granted, if it could be done, I'm guessing it wouldn't look any different to the legacy F/A-18A/B/C/D........
I believe the engines are interchangeable in the airframe (same envelope and mounting points) and I'm not certain how the weight difference is between them.  However, I do understand that F/A-18A/B aircraft outfitted with lighter systems from the C/D aircraft and the higher rated engines are known as A+/B+ aircraft and are of reportedly better performance than either of their equivalents.

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: F-18 Hornet and Super Hornet Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #158 on: July 11, 2019, 08:54:13 AM »
What is it with BotoPhucket & this self-promotional crap they're splashing all over their customers' photo's? >:D :icon_punal:


You can't call it a "water mark" because it isn't subtly in the background, it obliterates a quarter of the image! :o
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Offline Kerick

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Re: F-18 Hornet and Super Hornet Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #159 on: July 11, 2019, 09:42:07 AM »
What is it with BotoPhucket & this self-promotional crap they're splashing all over their customers' photo's? >:D :icon_punal:


You can't call it a "water mark" because it isn't subtly in the background, it obliterates a quarter of the image! :o

It’s really annoying and I’m sure they want you to pay money to get it removed. Not a good way to please customers!

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: F-18 Hornet and Super Hornet Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #160 on: July 12, 2019, 02:53:27 AM »
Here you go:









« Last Edit: July 12, 2019, 02:55:28 AM by GTX_Admin »
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Re: F-18 Hornet and Super Hornet Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #161 on: July 12, 2019, 03:39:02 AM »
Does anyone have any idea as to how much weight was saved from the F-111B SWIP

I understand SWIP saved about 3000lbs but as you said, the Navy wasn't exactly helping and indeed in July 1964, they directed an additional 2,850lbs of weight gains to make the aircraft compatible with carrier operations thus largely negating SWIP savings.

I've chosen the F/A-18C/D variant because of its higher thrust F404-GE-402 (although this begs the question could the F/A-18A/B be retrofitted/ accommodate the F404-GE-402 with ease??; and was the F/A-18C/D inherently heavier than the F/A-18A/B??

Theoretically the earlier F/A-18A/Bs could be retrofitted with -402s instead of their -400s.  That said, the engines do have different parts and thus it becomes a logisitics/supportability cost type question.  Specifically, is the additional performance worth the additional cost including the potential writing off of spares?  Most, if not all F/A-18A/B operators have decided that is isn't and thus programs such as the Australian Hornet Upgrade Program (HUG) have focussed more on replacing sensors, additional weapons and fatigue issues.

Re the Marine Nationale, Ihoestly think the only thing that would have really resulted in the acquiring or leasing /A-18s would have been a massive delay or cancellation outright of the Rafale.
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Offline M.A.D

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Re: F-18 Hornet and Super Hornet Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #162 on: July 12, 2019, 06:57:27 AM »
Thank you for your replies elmayerle and GTX, both interesting and informative!

Still would have been interesting to have seen a carrierised derivative of the Northrop YF-17, that stuck more in line with the size and weight of the YF-17, as Congress had stipulated and intended, before the USN enshrined it's wet dream upon the design.
Don't get me wrong, the F/A-18 is a good piece of kit, but the fact that the USN was given an inch, and it delibratly took a mile and a half...... 😉


MAD
« Last Edit: July 12, 2019, 07:04:05 AM by M.A.D »

Offline elmayerle

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Re: F-18 Hornet and Super Hornet Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #163 on: July 12, 2019, 07:23:55 AM »
A carrier-ized version of the production F-17 proposal would likely have had very similar landing gear to the F-18's (still have the loads of coming aboard the boat), though it probably would have retained the slotted LERX of the prototype F-18's (while working at Northrop, I was given to understand that those slots allowed counterbalancing vortices to balance the effect of the ones off the edges of the LERX on the vertical tails.  When those got filled in (apparently the equipment fit required more volume), they ended up having to add the fences on the LERX.  Beyond that the profile views, other than the radome would be similar, but the difference would show up on the plan view with the F-17 variant having a much narrower spine.

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: F-18 Hornet and Super Hornet Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #164 on: July 13, 2019, 03:01:06 AM »
As previously shown, the YF-17 to F/A-18 evolution essentially introduced those elements necessary to make the platform both carrier capable and operationally viable:


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That said, perhaps some things could be looked at such as limiting the overall role and thus need for some equipment.  For instance, if the new F-18 lost the (A)ttack role and went purely for the air defence role it might get way with some weight.  That said, having a single role platform on a carrier would seem a waste unless it was purely air defence of the ship  Though I suppose one could argue that that's essentially what the Aéronavale's F-8E(FN)s and dare I say, the RAN FAA's A-4Gs were used for so perhaps...

Maybe also some adjustments to some of the equipment such as the slightly smaller AN/APG-66 radar from the F-16 or even the AN/APG-67 from the F-20?

Another option might be to add in some features such as blown flaps or similar so as to ease the landing burden.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2019, 03:06:20 AM by GTX_Admin »
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Re: F-18 Hornet and Super Hornet Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #165 on: July 14, 2019, 04:37:44 AM »
P-530 cutaway - this was the immediate predecessor to the YF-17:

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Offline elmayerle

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Re: F-18 Hornet and Super Hornet Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #166 on: July 14, 2019, 05:27:00 AM »
I'll admit, I'm tempted to model the F-18L and keep the slotted LERXs while simplifying the landing gear (thinking an even swap between a F/A-18 prototype kit and a F-15 which would go on to be navalized).

Offline Volkodav

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Re: F-18 Hornet and Super Hornet Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #167 on: July 14, 2019, 08:18:29 PM »
I was under the impression that the F/A-18 undercarriage design was due to the requirement that Sparrows could be loaded while the wings were folded, i.e. on the fuselage, resulting in the need for a complex retraction process to clear the Sparrows fins.  Theoretically a simpler, but still strengthened gear design could be used if the Sparrows were deleted or moved to the wings.

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Re: F-18 Hornet and Super Hornet Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #168 on: July 15, 2019, 02:21:44 AM »
I was under the impression that the F/A-18 undercarriage design was due to the requirement that Sparrows could be loaded while the wings were folded, i.e. on the fuselage, resulting in the need for a complex retraction process to clear the Sparrows fins.  Theoretically a simpler, but still strengthened gear design could be used if the Sparrows were deleted or moved to the wings.

This is the only reference I have been able to find to that at this stage:  https://www.facebook.com/avgeekery/posts/the-hornets-main-landing-gear-is-one-of-the-most-complex-used-by-a-fighter-jet-a/1497778590309126/
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Offline kitnut617

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Re: F-18 Hornet and Super Hornet Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #169 on: July 15, 2019, 03:52:32 AM »
I was under the impression that the F/A-18 undercarriage design was due to the requirement that Sparrows could be loaded while the wings were folded, i.e. on the fuselage, resulting in the need for a complex retraction process to clear the Sparrows fins.  Theoretically a simpler, but still strengthened gear design could be used if the Sparrows were deleted or moved to the wings.

This is the only reference I have been able to find to that at this stage:  https://www.facebook.com/avgeekery/posts/the-hornets-main-landing-gear-is-one-of-the-most-complex-used-by-a-fighter-jet-a/1497778590309126/

That report would also explain what I've noticed on my North American FJ-2 and 3 models, the main gear were moved backwards and outwards ---

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Re: F-18 Hornet and Super Hornet Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #170 on: November 26, 2019, 02:34:28 AM »
Ilmavoimat Super Hornet and Growler anyone?

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Offline perttime

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Re: F-18 Hornet and Super Hornet Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #171 on: November 26, 2019, 11:06:32 PM »
Ilmavoimat Super Hornet and Growler anyone?

That is one "might yet be".
So is SAAB Gripen and GlobalEye.

Offline kitnut617

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Re: F-18 Hornet and Super Hornet Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #172 on: November 27, 2019, 12:01:04 AM »
Ilmavoimat Super Hornet and Growler anyone?

That is one "might yet be".
So is SAAB Gripen and GlobalEye.

Greg, those conformal tanks they have, they look a lot like the ones off an F-16. Would you know if that actually has been tried ?

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: F-18 Hornet and Super Hornet Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #173 on: November 27, 2019, 01:19:50 AM »
I believe the conformal fuel tanks have been trialled but that no operator has actually ordered/used them yet.



Some info here:  https://aviationweek.com/awin/upgrade-fa-18-fuel-tank-gains-ground
« Last Edit: November 27, 2019, 01:23:37 AM by GTX_Admin »
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Offline apophenia

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Re: F-18 Hornet and Super Hornet Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #174 on: November 27, 2019, 10:40:24 AM »
Apparently FY19-FY23 budgets allow for 110 USN Super Hornet conversions to Block III SLM standards which include conformal tanks.

https://www.defensenews.com/digital-show-dailies/navy-league/2018/04/04/boeing-super-hornet-program-gets-second-life-through-future-sales-and-upgrades/
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