Beyond The Sprues

Modelling => Ideas & Inspiration => Aero-space => Topic started by: GTX_Admin on April 03, 2013, 02:55:37 PM

Title: C-141 Starlifter and related proposals
Post by: GTX_Admin on April 03, 2013, 02:55:37 PM
I thought the C-141s had fatigue issues.
Title: Re: C-141 Starlifter and related proposals
Post by: finsrin on April 03, 2013, 03:11:53 PM
If you have that recollection, it is likely so.
Without 1/72 styrene C-141 available,,,  my bringing it up is irrelevent anyway - oops  :-[
Title: Re: Lockheed C-141 Starlifter
Post by: GTX_Admin on April 03, 2013, 03:26:12 PM
 I may be wrong...
Title: Re: Lockheed C-141 Starlifter
Post by: kitnut617 on April 03, 2013, 08:58:25 PM
If you have that recollection, it is likely so.
Without 1/72 styrene C-141 available,,,  my bringing it up is irrelevent anyway - oops  :-[

Combat Models do the A and B in styrene Bill, --- that's vacuform styrene   ;D  They also do a fairly good resin detail sets for most of their vacuforms.

Got one of each in the stash ---  As an aside, I found that the C-141A fuselage just happens to be about the same size to a C-135.  I've been thinking of a high winged C-135 as a Boeing competitor using the engine nacelles from the 141
Title: Re: Lockheed C-141 Starlifter
Post by: Daryl J. on April 04, 2013, 12:23:18 AM
Yes.  Fatigue issues in the 141's; have read that multiple places prior to the advent of the general availability of this here interwebs. 

Nice firebomber!
Title: Re: Lockheed C-141 Starlifter
Post by: elmayerle on April 04, 2013, 02:04:11 AM
Got one of each in the stash ---  As an aside, I found that the C-141A fuselage just happens to be about the same size to a C-135.  I've been thinking of a high winged C-135 as a Boeing competitor using the engine nacelles from the 141
Of course, that also suggests the possibility of a KC-141.

Just a thought, a CILOP'd or new-build C-141C with CFM56 engines and the addition of a refueling probe in addtion to the flying boom receptacle.
Title: Re: Lockheed C-141 Starlifter
Post by: GTX_Admin on April 04, 2013, 04:14:14 AM
The above posts were split off from the A-10 thread.  Now continue on your way...

Title: Re: Lockheed C-141 Starlifter
Post by: dy031101 on April 04, 2013, 09:25:57 AM
Pesudo-bomber equipped with improved avionics and armed with MOAB in its cargo hold?
Title: Re: Lockheed C-141 Starlifter
Post by: GTX_Admin on April 04, 2013, 10:05:50 AM
How about some non-USA operators?
Title: Re: Lockheed C-141 Starlifter
Post by: finsrin on April 04, 2013, 10:42:33 AM
Pesudo-bomber equipped with improved avionics and armed with MOAB in its cargo hold?

Thinking that would be next gen MOAB built without B-52 bomb bay size constraints.  KaaBooom !
Title: Re: Lockheed C-141 Starlifter
Post by: dy031101 on April 04, 2013, 10:50:08 AM
Thinking that would be next gen MOAB built without B-52 bomb bay size constraints.  KaaBooom !

And here was I thinking that MOAB wasn't built for B-52 bomb bay to being with...... ;D
Title: Re: Lockheed C-141 Starlifter
Post by: Daryl J. on April 04, 2013, 10:52:39 AM
While it's an opinion only, Herge could have had Tintin ride with a diamond smuggling Starlifter crew out of Africa to Antwerp.  MarolsAir markings or some such thing.
Title: Re: Lockheed C-141 Starlifter
Post by: finsrin on April 04, 2013, 10:59:05 AM
Thinking that would be next gen MOAB built without B-52 bomb bay size constraints.  KaaBooom !

And here was I thinking that MOAB wasn't built for B-52 bomb bay to being with...... ;D

You  be correct.  30 feet long with a diameter of 40.5 inches and delivered by C-130.
Title: Re: Lockheed C-141 Starlifter
Post by: dy031101 on April 04, 2013, 11:23:38 AM
Thinking that would be next gen MOAB built without B-52 bomb bay size constraints.  KaaBooom !


Nonetheless, your mention of B-52 inspired me to think...... a C-141-based "Old Dog (http://www.nopms.net/images/116-Aircraft.jpg)" (the only good thing out of Dale Brown's sky cowboy novels), armed with either MOABs or cruise missile pallets?
Title: Re: Lockheed C-141 Starlifter
Post by: AGRA on April 04, 2013, 11:27:31 AM
How about some non-USA operators?

RAAF wanted to buy six back in the late 60s and by the time Treasury signed of on it Lockheed had closed the production line. RAAF then said OK we'll buy 707s but by the time the rest of the Govt. caught up to them there was withdrawal from Vietnam, subsequent draw down and they didn't the aircraft until the 80s. Anyway RAAF C-141s is like C-17s 40 years earlier.
Title: Re: Lockheed C-141 Starlifter
Post by: elmayerle on April 04, 2013, 11:45:11 AM
There's a techno-thriller out there that has ASAT's kicked out the back of a C-141 in order to take out a Soviet constellation of laser-armed satellites that were controlling access to the orbitals.  As I remember the details, the satellites were in a highly elliptical orbit giving increased loiter time over the northern hemisphere but coming in just above the atmosphere over the South Pole.  The C-141 staged out of Chile to shoot down these satellites.  Sorry, I don't remember the name of the novel nor the author.
Title: Re: Lockheed C-141 Starlifter
Post by: GTX_Admin on April 04, 2013, 01:56:56 PM
How about some non-USA operators?

RAAF wanted to buy six back in the late 60s and by the time Treasury signed of on it Lockheed had closed the production line. RAAF then said OK we'll buy 707s but by the time the rest of the Govt. caught up to them there was withdrawal from Vietnam, subsequent draw down and they didn't the aircraft until the 80s. Anyway RAAF C-141s is like C-17s 40 years earlier.

Interesting...
Title: Re: Lockheed C-141 Starlifter
Post by: M.A.D on April 04, 2013, 05:51:36 PM
How about some non-USA operators?

RAAF wanted to buy six back in the late 60s and by the time Treasury signed of on it Lockheed had closed the production line. RAAF then said OK we'll buy 707s but by the time the rest of the Govt. caught up to them there was withdrawal from Vietnam, subsequent draw down and they didn't the aircraft until the 80s. Anyway RAAF C-141s is like C-17s 40 years earlier.

Interesting...

I concur GTX!!

Is this 'what if' or real world??
If real world, can I ask for your reference please? For I was oblivious to the RAAF (let alone the Australian Government) having any interest to such a capable transport aircraft bar the Hercules!

M.A.D
Title: Re: Lockheed C-141 Starlifter
Post by: AGRA on April 04, 2013, 06:05:40 PM
Is this 'what if' or real world??
If real world, can I ask for your reference please? For I was oblivious to the RAAF (let alone the Australian Government) having any interest to such a capable transport aircraft bar the Hercules!


Its real. Here is a general outline of events at that time including the C-5 option that was considered. This is not the only source but its the first I can put my hands on at the moment. Its a few beers later moment here on my end...

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1967/1967%20-%200305.html?search=raaf (http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1967/1967%20-%200305.html?search=raaf) c-141
Title: Re: Lockheed C-141 Starlifter
Post by: Volkodav on April 04, 2013, 06:20:23 PM
I remember reading something about it in a 1960 something bound edition of flight magazine they had in the uni library.  The justification mentioned in the story was the need for something more suitable for casualty evacuation from Vietnam.  Another story in a later edition discussed the C-5 option and the concern that, so large was the number of troops it could carry, the loss of s single aircraft would result in the deaths of a large percentage of our regular infantry.
Title: Re: Lockheed C-141 Starlifter
Post by: GTX_Admin on April 04, 2013, 07:29:01 PM
Some RAAF C-141s would look cool.
Title: Re: Lockheed C-141 Starlifter
Post by: AGRA on April 04, 2013, 08:10:14 PM
They could have used the C-141s for the camo pattern trial on the Caribous: green, red and tan wrap arounds. Plus the hivis white tops, AAD support fanta can and a Roulette support aircraft...
Title: Re: Lockheed C-141 Starlifter
Post by: Scooterman on April 04, 2013, 11:37:38 PM
<has head in closet of doom digging out 1/200 kits>
Title: Re: Lockheed C-141 Starlifter
Post by: Geoff on April 05, 2013, 12:17:20 AM
AWACS in place of 707s?
Title: Re: Lockheed C-141 Starlifter
Post by: GTX_Admin on April 05, 2013, 02:07:22 AM
They could have used the C-141s for the camo pattern trial on the Caribous: green, red and tan wrap arounds. Plus the hivis white tops, AAD support fanta can and a Roulette support aircraft...

Quick someone - do some profiles of these...please!!!
Title: Re: Lockheed C-141 Starlifter
Post by: Kerick on April 05, 2013, 12:00:09 PM
I always wondered how hard it would be to get a C-141 and convert it to a house. Lots of head room for sure. Others have used airliners.
http://www.airplanehome.com/ (http://www.airplanehome.com/)
I'm sure the C-141s have been scrapped by now.
Title: Re: Lockheed C-141 Starlifter
Post by: finsrin on April 05, 2013, 01:53:47 PM
Remember being at McChord AFB seeing first C-141 to ever be there.
Was on a look-see tour showing off C-141.  This was before McChord had one delivered.
Now,,, is off to bone yard and beyond.  :icon_sueno:
Title: Re: Lockheed C-141 Starlifter
Post by: GTX_Admin on April 06, 2013, 02:19:18 AM
I remember having the bejesus scared out of me and a group of mates when a long flying C-141 with all the lights out went over us near Woomera back in the early '90s... :o
Title: Boeing's XC-141 proposal, the Boeing 731
Post by: kitnut617 on January 03, 2020, 02:20:44 AM
I've had this idea of building a Boeing C-141 as if it had won the competition. I had found that the C-135 was almost the same size as the Lockheed C-141A so my thoughts were to put the C-135 wings up on top of the C-135 fuselage, giving it anhedral and then using the type of engine nacelles the Lockheed C-141 had.

A week or so ago in a thread on the What-If forum I had laid out the idea there too, and low and behold this morning, on SPF, there's a thread there all about it. It's not far off what I had envisioned, the only thing I would have got totally wrong was the main undercarriage arrangement. Now I have something to work on ---  (it would also suggest some arrangement for Boeing's XC-5 proposal)
Title: Re: Boeing's XC-141 proposal, the Boeing 731
Post by: GTX_Admin on January 03, 2020, 03:47:17 AM
Interesting...
Title: Re: Boeing's XC-141 proposal, the Boeing 731
Post by: apophenia on January 04, 2020, 10:11:43 AM
Looking forward to this!  :D

... then using the type of engine nacelles the Lockheed C-141 had.

Curious though ... why the C-141 nacelles? Is it just an aesthetic preference? Or a set of Lockheed nacelles in the spares box?

To me, the 707's JT3D nacelles look quite similar to a B-52H's TF33s (from the side). That would seem to reinforce the family resemblance.
Title: Re: C-141 Starlifter and related proposals
Post by: jcf on January 04, 2020, 11:51:08 AM
C-141 Lockheed documents link, 5 files:
https://c141heaven.info/dotcom/lockheed/476l.php

Vol. 2 includes a drawing of a GE MF239 C-3, aft-fan engine installation.   :smiley:
Lots of fun stuff to root through.   :smiley:
Title: Re: Boeing's XC-141 proposal, the Boeing 731
Post by: kitnut617 on January 04, 2020, 11:32:00 PM
Looking forward to this!  :D

... then using the type of engine nacelles the Lockheed C-141 had.

Curious though ... why the C-141 nacelles? Is it just an aesthetic preference? Or a set of Lockheed nacelles in the spares box?

To me, the 707's JT3D nacelles look quite similar to a B-52H's TF33s (from the side). That would seem to reinforce the family resemblance.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that the engine used for the C-141 had won it's competition --- so my thoughts were it would've been use on the Boeing. As to the shape of the nacelle, you're probably right, Boeing might have come up with something else. But when you look at the designs for XC-X (C-5) competition, IIRC, they all used the same engine nacelles.
Title: Re: C-141 Starlifter and related proposals
Post by: Volkodav on January 04, 2020, 11:45:30 PM
I think the utility and overall success of the RAAFs C-17 acquisition suggests that the C-141 procurement would have had great potential if it had gone ahead.
Title: Re: C-141 Starlifter and related proposals
Post by: kitnut617 on January 04, 2020, 11:49:57 PM
I think the utility and overall success of the RAAFs C-17 acquisition suggests that the C-141 procurement would have had great potential if it had gone ahead.

The same for the RCAF with the C-17, the best acquisition the Government ever made for the C.A.F.