Author Topic: Churchill Tank  (Read 88615 times)

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Churchill Tank
« on: September 23, 2012, 02:24:52 AM »
« Last Edit: September 23, 2012, 02:26:38 AM by Jeffry Fontaine »
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Offline raafif

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Re: Churchill Tank
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2012, 04:36:09 AM »
nice model !

        The Churchill is much neglected in whif & other areas -- love to see a decent SPG version :P  _______ brain in gear, maybe a line-drawing coming .....



Offline ChernayaAkula

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Re: Churchill Tank
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2012, 02:17:55 PM »
Nice indeed!  :)

        The Churchill is much neglected in whif & other areas <...>

Agreed!  :) SPG sounds interesting.
Someone (apophenia, maybe?) did a Churchill (or Black Prince?) with an updated Centurion turret that looked really cool.  8)
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Offline Weaver

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Re: Churchill Tank
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2012, 04:04:08 AM »
I always hated building them for wargaming because of all the little wheels.... On the other hand though, that does make them a good candidate for scaleorama because you can re-scale, say, a 1/35th one to 1/72nd and the plethora of small wheels looks more convincing for a HUGE vehicle than a few big ones. The tiny escape hatches become decent-sized doors when scaleorama'd too.
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Offline Feldmarschall Zod

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Re: Churchill Tank
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2012, 05:38:39 AM »
When I get home,I will have to see if a StuG III fighting compartment will fit onto a Churchill hull. Make it into some sort of SP artillery,a bunker buster.
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Offline jcf

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Re: Churchill Tank
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2012, 07:08:28 AM »
Henk of Holland's Churchill page:

http://henk.fox3000.com/churchill.htm


The oh so lovely A22D 3" self-propelled:
http://arcaneafvs.com/a22d_churchill_gun_carrier.html


I think a Stugified Churchill would bear some resemblance to the A39 Tortoise.

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Offline raafif

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Re: Churchill Tank
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2012, 08:01:17 AM »

I think a Stugified Churchill would bear some resemblance to the A39 Tortoise.



yep I have the Tortoise kit & may do it as a possible "end-of-line" Churchill SPG development but I want to do a Churchill Heavy-SPG as it may have emerged in say early 1944  ((also a Matilda SPG)).



When I saw the remains of that A22D 3" at Bovvy in 2000, it was a very sad wreck with most of the left hull missing :icon_crap:

Offline dy031101

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Re: Churchill Tank
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2012, 10:26:15 AM »
 ;D
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

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Re: Churchill Tank
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2012, 07:30:24 PM »
 :)
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Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: Churchill Tank
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2012, 04:32:48 AM »
How about improving on the sponsons and making them stick out a bit further for a weapons station that could fit a gunner and weapon in the prone position firing a small caliber infantry support gun (47mm or 37mm) or a machine gun (15mm Besa or .303" Browning)?  It would be perfect for a post WW1 early thirties tank development before the doctrine on how to best use these weapons was was fully established. 
« Last Edit: July 28, 2013, 11:42:25 AM by Jeffry Fontaine »
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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Churchill Tank
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2012, 09:25:08 PM »
How about improving on the sponsons and making them stick out a bit further for a weapons station that could fit a gunner and weapon in the prone position firing a small caliber infantry support gun (47mm or 37mm) or a machine gun (15mm Besa or .303" Browning)?  It would be perfect for a post WW1 early thirties tank development before the doctrine on how to bust use these weapons was was fully established.

The original prototype for what became the Churchill had that, with MGs in the sponsons.  They were removed because they weakened the armour and were difficult to manufacture.

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Churchill Tank
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2013, 10:56:00 AM »
The Australian developed 25 pounder tank gun used as a CS gun for the Churchill to instead of the 95mm CS, later replaced by a CS version of the L9 165mm demolition gun.  The 95mm is developed with a longer barrel, increasing performance and negating the need for a counter weight on the barrel.

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Churchill Tank
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2013, 07:49:58 PM »
What would be the minimum mods required to fit a RR Meteor engine and either a 17lbr or 77mm HV to a Churchill?  Not looking for a Black Prince type redesign but rather something that could have been done to the MkVII to make it more competitive in 44-45 and incidentally something that would be comparatively easy to model on the Basis of the original Tamiya Churchill Crocodile I have in my stash.

I assume an increase in hull width and a larger diameter turret ring but should be able to get away with the existing length.  Maybe some extra armour.

Offline dy031101

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Re: Churchill Tank
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2013, 09:28:46 PM »
For mounting a 17 pounder...... two words: Black Prince.
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Churchill Tank
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2013, 09:48:08 PM »
Ah huh but not looking for a Black Prince, looking for minimal change to the chassis but must have the Meteor and its 600bhp

Offline dy031101

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Re: Churchill Tank
« Reply #15 on: November 27, 2013, 10:52:47 AM »
Ah huh but not looking for a Black Prince, looking for minimal change to the chassis but must have the Meteor and its 600bhp

Hum...... maybe you can try a French-style oscillating turret then......
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Churchill Tank
« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2013, 11:01:23 AM »
Hadn't thought of that, it would work!

What the history of the oscillating turret, I know it was first prototyped for a cancelled late 40s MBT but was the concept around for an escaping French designer / engineer to offer it to the Brits in 1940?

No thinking Churchill Mk VII with a raised engine deck and oscillating turret with a 17pdr, would probably look at a larger bustle though, one that permits the autoloader to be topped up from under armour.

Offline Buzzbomb

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Re: Churchill Tank
« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2013, 12:58:36 PM »
As another thought, totally without looking at the detail.. what about popping an Achilles Tank Destroyer open topped Turret with the 17pdr on it.. I cannot see that the ring size of that and the MkVII Churchy would be too much different.
 

Offline jcf

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Re: Churchill Tank
« Reply #18 on: November 28, 2013, 01:43:53 AM »
Churchill: 54.25"

M10/Achilles: 69"
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Offline Feldmarschall Zod

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Re: Churchill Tank
« Reply #19 on: November 28, 2013, 02:34:43 AM »
Accurate Armour has a Churchill dozer conversion armed with a 165 mm demolition gun for the Tamiya kit. Also includes a decal sheet.

http://www.accurate-armour.com/ShowProduct.cfm?manufacturer=0&category=66&subcategory=39&product=2361
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Offline Volkodav

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Re: Churchill Tank
« Reply #20 on: November 28, 2013, 09:50:58 AM »
Churchill: 54.25"

M10/Achilles: 69"

Ok 14.75" difference, over a foot!
374.65mm - 10.71mm in 1/35 that is a big plug to increase width and probably an extra road wheel for length, back in Black Prince territory.

Another option I just thought of is raise the hull and have sponsons over the tracks.  Alternatively move the trunnions mounts forward, or the trunnions themselves back onto the breach with a counter weight on an integrated loading tray and have a counter balancing bustle.

Comet had a 64" turret ring, 247.65mm difference, 7.1mm in 1/35 still a lot to fudge.  Messing with the hull height or trunnions looks the most promising.

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Churchill Tank
« Reply #21 on: November 28, 2013, 09:55:36 AM »
Accurate Armour has a Churchill dozer conversion armed with a 165 mm demolition gun for the Tamiya kit. Also includes a decal sheet.

http://www.accurate-armour.com/ShowProduct.cfm?manufacturer=0&category=66&subcategory=39&product=2361


Interesting, I wonder if a 25pdr adapted with a one piece round would fit in a standard MkVII turret?  APDS and HE would be pretty effective and probably better than the 75mm while still not in 17pdr or 76mm territory.

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Churchill Tank
« Reply #22 on: November 28, 2013, 10:56:17 AM »
Another thought, the Cromwell based Charioteer had a two man turret with a 20pdr, could a similar turret have been developed for the Churchill in WWII for the 17pdr?

Offline Buzzbomb

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Re: Churchill Tank
« Reply #23 on: November 28, 2013, 12:55:22 PM »
Another thought, the Cromwell based Charioteer had a two man turret with a 20pdr, could a similar turret have been developed for the Churchill in WWII for the 17pdr?


Same sort of thing was done with the Centurion to produce the Conway, bung a larger turret on the basic hull


Your thoughts around the 25pdr appear sound.. look at the Bishop mounting on a Valentine, which was much smaller than a Churchill, albeit non rotating.

Again around the Conway project.. you could do something like this

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: Churchill Tank
« Reply #24 on: November 28, 2013, 01:33:45 PM »
Churchill could really benefit from a sloped front glacis plate and get rid of that shot trap.
"Every day we hear about new studies 'revealing' what should have been obvious to sentient beings for generations; 'Research shows wolverines don't like to be teased" -- Jonah Goldberg