Author Topic: Harrier/Harrier II (AV-8...) Ideas and Inspiration  (Read 72632 times)

Offline dy031101

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Re: Harrier/Harrier II (AV-8...) Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #100 on: August 28, 2013, 08:53:10 AM »
Locally-refurbished Iranian Sea Harrier with R-27T missiles under outer wing pylons.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2013, 08:55:23 AM by dy031101 »
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Offline Daryl J.

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Re: Harrier/Harrier II (AV-8...) Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #101 on: September 28, 2013, 01:15:03 AM »
A question about the Blue Vixen radar if I may: any air-to-ground or anti-shipping capabilities? 

The reason for asking: I find the pointy nose on the American Harrier rather ugly.   Geeze....we detail-oriented men can be so impossible at times!!!  ;D.   Given the new-tool FA.2 coming down the pike, I'd love to build a couple Coulda Shoulda's. 
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Offline jschmus

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Re: Harrier/Harrier II (AV-8...) Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #102 on: September 28, 2013, 03:23:53 AM »
A question about the Blue Vixen radar if I may: any air-to-ground or anti-shipping capabilities? 

The reason for asking: I find the pointy nose on the American Harrier rather ugly.   Geeze....we detail-oriented men can be so impossible at times!!!  ;D.   Given the new-tool FA.2 coming down the pike, I'd love to build a couple Coulda Shoulda's.

Wikipedia says the Blue Vixen was "a multimode radar for airborne interception and air-to-surface strike roles over water and land, with look-down and look-up modes."  It goes on to say it had full compatibility with the AIM-9 and AIM-120 AAMs and the Sea Eagle ASM.
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Harrier/Harrier II (AV-8...) Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #103 on: October 01, 2013, 12:08:55 PM »
Carry the Blue Vixen radome over to the Harrier FG.11 version of the AV-8B+, then?  That could definitely make use of existing spares, though it likely would require some equipment rack redesign which, while non-trivial is unlikely to be a major driver of cost.


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Re: Harrier/Harrier II (AV-8...) Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #104 on: October 01, 2013, 03:31:15 PM »
How about a French Sea Harrier with Thomson-CSF Agave radar in the nose and a single Exocet missile under one wing?
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Offline ericr

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Re: Harrier/Harrier II (AV-8...) Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #105 on: October 01, 2013, 04:19:37 PM »

mmmmh ... How about a floatplane version?

(quite Whif, indeed ... ;) )



Offline Volkodav

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Re: Harrier/Harrier II (AV-8...) Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #106 on: October 01, 2013, 07:14:08 PM »
How about a French Sea Harrier with Thomson-CSF Agave radar in the nose and a single Exocet missile under one wing?

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Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: Harrier/Harrier II (AV-8...) Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #107 on: October 02, 2013, 06:26:33 AM »
Non VTOL Harrier






Offline Weaver

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Re: Harrier/Harrier II (AV-8...) Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #108 on: October 02, 2013, 10:30:01 AM »
Ysi - nice ideas!

How about a non-VTOL Harrier with the original engine, a conventional (large!) single nozzle and longer, straighter wings (Su-25?) with more hardpoints as a sort of A-10-ish CAS aircraft?

The single nozzle for the Pegasus would probably have to be about the size of the Viggen's....
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Harrier/Harrier II (AV-8...) Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #109 on: October 02, 2013, 10:57:52 AM »
Ysi - nice ideas!

How about a non-VTOL Harrier with the original engine, a conventional (large!) single nozzle and longer, straighter wings (Su-25?) with more hardpoints as a sort of A-10-ish CAS aircraft?

The single nozzle for the Pegasus would probably have to be about the size of the Viggen's....
Pegasus, The Heart of the Harrier has a cross-section of one such engine.  It was proposed as a H2-burning engine for the returning Space Shuttle (RB>420, depicted on pg. 291 of the hardback).  I'll have to check it again to verify, but memory says the exhaust was nearly the same diameter as the the front face of the engine (memory was wrong, it's a tad smaller and the exhaust nozzle reduces nicely aft of the engine).  Now, aft of the engine structure you could reduce it or you could add a good mixer for a real low-observable signature.  Given the other numbers, I suspect a TF41 exhaust from an A-7 would work nicely for art.  Given the rather higher thrust of the RB.420, I reckon you could carry as much as an A-7, too, with the right wing (Scaled-up hawk wing?).
« Last Edit: October 02, 2013, 08:43:12 PM by elmayerle »

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Re: Harrier/Harrier II (AV-8...) Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #110 on: October 02, 2013, 04:14:20 PM »
Or possibly go twin tail boom or something akin to the Yak-141 but without the swivelling exhaust:

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Offline taiidantomcat

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Re: Harrier/Harrier II (AV-8...) Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #111 on: November 11, 2013, 12:19:01 PM »


A Picture from our own Kitnut617 That I love  :-*
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Offline kitnut617

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Re: Harrier/Harrier II (AV-8...) Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #112 on: November 11, 2013, 11:15:41 PM »
Or possibly go twin tail boom or something akin to the Yak-141 but without the swivelling exhaust:




Hmm!  not sure I wanted my Super Harrier to be quite like that ---

Offline Daryl J.

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Re: Harrier/Harrier II (AV-8...) Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #113 on: January 01, 2014, 08:19:14 AM »
Quote
Personally, I'm waiting for the new Airfix GR.1/GR.3 kits because I want to do a series of models along the lines that the US Army, British Army and Royal Marines all won the 1960s arguments about CAS and ended up with their own Harriers with their own equipment fits.


Ok....  US Army gets the AV-8B.    And they keep their Apaches and Cobras.   Is a 4 pylon loadout of guided smart bombs a reasonable presumption presuming skirmishes that involve something similar to The Recent 20 Year Sandbox Conflict?  The helicopters provide the lead spray and rockets, the Harriers a rapidly deployable somewhat heavier bit.   
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Offline Volkodav

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Re: Harrier/Harrier II (AV-8...) Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #114 on: January 01, 2014, 08:41:40 AM »
Well that's an idea.  US Army, using the success USMC capability as justification, pushes for and obtains their own fixed wing expeditionary tactical air power.  As the USMC aircraft have been selected for their suitability for deployment, CAS and interdiction in support of deployed forces the US Army simply copies and expands the USMC model to suit their larger structure.

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Harrier/Harrier II (AV-8...) Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #115 on: January 01, 2014, 09:28:10 AM »
Quote
Personally, I'm waiting for the new Airfix GR.1/GR.3 kits because I want to do a series of models along the lines that the US Army, British Army and Royal Marines all won the 1960s arguments about CAS and ended up with their own Harriers with their own equipment fits.


Ok....  US Army gets the AV-8B.    And they keep their Apaches and Cobras.   Is a 4 pylon loadout of guided smart bombs a reasonable presumption presuming skirmishes that involve something similar to The Recent 20 Year Sandbox Conflict?  The helicopters provide the lead spray and rockets, the Harriers a rapidly deployable somewhat heavier bit.
4 pylon load out of smart bombs or Hellfire racks (either the four-missile racks off the helicopters or the three-missile racks used by the RAF for its Brimstone derivative of Hellfire - alternative fit might be an air-launched version of the anti-ship Hellfire derivative the Swedes use from ground launchers) sounds like a reasonable loadout, though perhaps dispensers with SDB's would be another alternative for some combat environments.

Offline Daryl J.

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Re: Harrier/Harrier II (AV-8...) Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #116 on: August 21, 2014, 07:08:30 AM »
Hmmmm.....Kinetic's SHAR might have to also get US Army markings.   
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Harrier/Harrier II (AV-8...) Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #117 on: August 21, 2014, 09:55:21 AM »
Hmmmm.....Kinetic's SHAR might have to also get US Army markings.
Or like the export version 1st generation strike Harrier proposed to the PLAAF, a SHAR 1 airframe (the only 1st generation airframe in production at the time) with the radar replaced by a LRMTS as on the Harrier GR.3.  Of course, instead of the LRMTS, it might have the ARBS flown in USMC A-4Ms and fitted to the original AV-8B.

Offline taiidantomcat

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Re: Harrier/Harrier II (AV-8...) Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #118 on: September 19, 2014, 10:43:11 PM »





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Offline kitnut617

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Re: Harrier/Harrier II (AV-8...) Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #119 on: September 20, 2014, 12:47:33 AM »
The pic of looking out the back of the C-130, the scenery in the background looks like Arizona, Southern Arizona to be more specific --- Yuma perhaps ?

Offline taiidantomcat

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Re: Harrier/Harrier II (AV-8...) Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #120 on: September 20, 2014, 03:18:10 AM »
3rd MAW over Helmland Afghanistan according to this:

http://www.theatlantic.com/infocus/2013/01/afghanistan-december-2012/100433/

(Yuma is a good guess though  ;) )

Another pic from the Above:



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Offline dy031101

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Hangar clearance for supporting Harriers?
« Reply #121 on: February 23, 2015, 02:20:44 PM »
I once read an article on CVV.  A comparison chart pointed out that the modernised Midway class, while capable of catapulting and recovering F-14s, cannot support them because their hangars do not have the clearance (17.5') required to perform services on the Tomcats (landing gear drop-check and ejection seat removal are invoked as examples; CVV has 24' to accommodate such jobs).

I wonder what would be the hangar clearance required to service Harrier II.  Does anyone know?  Thanks in advance.
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Offline raafif

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Re: Harrier/Harrier II (AV-8...) Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #122 on: April 06, 2015, 02:09:47 PM »
an early Harrier at Prima Museum - larger intake lip & no small intake doors.

Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Harrier/Harrier II (AV-8...) Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #123 on: April 06, 2015, 08:33:42 PM »
I think that is a P.1127...

Offline kitnut617

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Re: Harrier/Harrier II (AV-8...) Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #124 on: April 06, 2015, 11:11:42 PM »
It is more likely to be one of the nine Kestrels that went to the USA after they were Tri-partied tested. Named XV-6A Kestrel or Kestrel FGA.1 (RAF). 

I've got models of both the P.1127 and the Kestrel and the latter is somewhat bigger than the P.1127 but not as big as a Harrier.