Beyond The Sprues
Modelling => Completed GBs => Group and Themed Builds => The Coulda, Woulda, Shoulda GB => Topic started by: GTX_Admin on June 23, 2013, 04:56:57 AM
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Inspiration for the Coulda, Woulda, Shoulda GB:
(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s260/Draggie748/RAAF%20F-16A/76SQN-F-16A_1024_web.jpg)
(http://www.armaghplanet.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Image-of-shuttle-and-manned-booster.jpg)
(http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/h61000/h61246.jpg)
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More...
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b147/lesterpk/F-16whatif.jpg)
(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/p480x480/552927_444573268964799_756246428_n.jpg)
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Still more:
(http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/icarus-interstellar-nerv-arrives-mars-660x433-120129-1.jpg)
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Bit of musical inspiration for you..... ;)
Beverley Knight - Shoulda Woulda Coulda (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bug-hnPxFaY#ws)
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i seem to have plenty of idea's lately that would fit the GB perfectly.
as for a shoulda, im thinking my Belgian ec665 Tiger HAD would be good.
as for a woulda, a Belgian EC-635 (was concidered in 2000 to replace the Alouette II)
and a for a Coulda, a Belgian Navy SA365 (order was cancelled in the early-90's, was supposed to replace the Alouette III)
another good project would be a Belgian Jaguar, the BAF did concider ordering the Jaguar-A, but Dassault instead steered belgium towards the Mirage 5, coulda been the better choice.
(profile: Glanini)
(http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o287/glanini/BelgiumSepecatJaguar1978-1.png)
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RAAF AH-1 Cobra, Starlifter, Galaxy, Mirage F-1, Jaguar, F-15, F-11 Tiger, A-5 Vigilante, B-1B
RAN FAA F-4B/J, F-11 Tiger, F-8 Crusader, Sea Harrier, AV-8B+
RAN Indefatigable, Colossus, Centaur, Essex, Hermes, Eagle, Invincible, Tarawa, SCS, Type 45, DDG-51, County Class DLG, Leahy Class DLG, Suffren, Clemenceau, Vangard, Ark Royal
RNZAF F-16, F/A-18, Hawk 100/200, F-11 Tiger
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Hmm - funny this should come up: I've just been considering the ramifications of a 1945-ish British government decision to keep the Fleet Air Arm predominately US-supplied. The argument is that there's so little market for non-US carrier jets that it's not worth Britain developing them. Thus the FAA's 1950's front line fighters are the Grumman Panther, Grumman Cougar and Grumman Tiger, all made under licence by Shorts and with British-built engines (which is why they're preferred to the other options). They then put an Avon RA.24 and a radar into the Super Tiger to get the next generation (apparently an Avon-engined Super-Tiger was offered to Germany).
Consequences:
1. The Attacker (and consequently the Swift) and the Scimitar never happen and Supermaine goes to the wall quickly.
2. The Sea Hawk never happens which means Hawker's development path to the Hunter never gets started. In a related decision, the RAF gets an early delivery of US-built Sabres to enable it to participate in Korea, and Hawker then ends up building the follow-on Avon-Sabres.
The easiest thing to do would be to build the three Grumman "cats" in RN colours (although I havn't got a Cougar), or I could build the two RAF Sabre, with an F-86H standing in for the hypothetical British Avon Sabre.
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What if in early 1942 a schism took place where the fighter lead part of the USAAC told the Army no more ground support from us and USN told the USMC to they should stick to balloons, small arms and small boats. More back story details later.
Go look else where for your aircraft they where told.
Okay. Be that way. So p*ss on you they said. So the the United States Army Aviation Division and the United States Marine Aviation Corps were created.
In a huff they did by buying all their aviation assets from Commonwealth nations such as Australia, Canada and the UK. Some USAAC and USN A/C were immediately transferred and occasionally they also got some gently used / experienced / unloved A/C.
Some of the A/C were licensed built by the non-mainstream companies such as CCF, Kaiser, Naval Aircraft Factory, Northrop and Vickers Canada. Some of the A/C designs were shared between the USAAD and the USMAC.
For the USAAD:
A-24A Banshee SBD
A-25A/B Shrike S2BC
A-27A Alamo T-6
A-27B Alamo T-6
A-32A Lynx TBF
A-32C Lynx TBF
A-37A Badger P-47D RB
A-37B Badger P-47D BC
A-37C Badger P-47D BC
A-39A Lynx P-39Q
A-39B Lynx P-63A
A-40A Coyote Mosquito
A-40B Coyote Mosquito
A-42A Typhoon Typhoon Mk. I
A-46A Osprey XP-75A
F-1A Spitfire Mk. I / PR Mk. IC
F-1B Spitfire Mk. Vb / PR. MK.IV
F-1C Spitfire PR Mk.X
F-1D Spitfire Mk. VIII
F-1E Spitfire Mk. XIX
F-1F Spitfire Mk. XIVe
F-8A Mosquito Mosquito
F-8B Mosquito Mosquito
F-8C Mosquito Mosquito
F-19A Meteor Mk. 4
P-48A Spitfire MK.I
P-48B Spitfire MK.V
P-48C Spitfire Mk. VIII
P-48D Spitfire MK IXc
P-48E Spitfire MK XII
P-48F Spitfire Mk. XIVc
P-48G Spitfire FR. Mk.XIVE
P-48H Spitfire MK.22
P-48I Spitfire Mk.46
P-48J Spiteful MK. XIV
P-49A Beaufighter Beaufighter MK. VI
P-49B Beaufighter Beaufighter MK. VI
P-52A Whirlwind Mk.I
P-57A Tempest Tempest Mk. V
P-57B Tempest Tempest Mk. VI
P-73A Meteor Mk. III
P-73B Meteor Mk. 4
P-73C Meteor Mk. 8
P-73D Meteor Mk. FR. Mk.9
P-73E Meteor Mk. NF.14
For the USMAC:
FK-1 Spitfire Mk.I
FK-2 Spitfire Mk.V
FK-3 Spitfire Mk.IX
F2K-1 Spitfire Mk.21
F2K-2 Spitfire FR Mk.XIV
F2K-3 Spiteful MK.XIV
F3K-1 Seafire Mk.XV
F3K-2 Seafire Mk.46
F3K-3 Seafang Mk.32
FN-1 Typhoon Mk. Ib
FN-2 Typhoon Mk. Ib
FN-3 Typhoon Mk. Ib
F2N-1 Tempest Mk. I
F2N-2 Tempest Mk. I
F3N-1 Sea Fury Mk. II
F4N-1 Hornet Mk.I
TBR-1 Avenger TBF
TBR-2 Avenger TBF
TB2R-1 Beaufighter Mk.X
TB3R-1 Brigand TB MK. I
TF1B-1 Firebrand TF.Mk.II
Am going to build all these by July 14? Mostly likely no but it is long term job security for the modelling companies.
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F-17/F-18L
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Ahahahaha France...
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Greg, please don't tempt me to build a Montana PLEASE!!! I have enough scratch build projects going on now :-\
If anyone wants some naval inspiration ask me. I have a whole slew of ship and naval related subjects I can provide.
Some "should have been" profiles I've done:
Hawker-Siddeley Nimrod AEW.4 - Nimrod with Radar system from the E-2 Hawkeye.
(http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu194/CliffyB/Artwork/NimrodAEW-4-RAFNo8SqnFalklands1984Pre-War2.jpg)
McDonnell-Douglas FGR.2 Phantom II - J79 Powered F-4E for the RAF.
(http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu194/CliffyB/Artwork/RAFF-4E-TempGreen-CrusaderLeadMarch19842.jpg)
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Canada shoulda bought Eagles!
(http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m309/ChernayaAkula/WhIf/F-15C-CAF-BalkanRat.png)
(http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m309/ChernayaAkula/WhIf/F-15C-CAF_TMOTA_2003.png)
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Canadian options from the competition that led to the Hornet - F-16, Mirage F.1, Tornado, F-18L, F-15...
...and then the one I'm contemplating building: after the Islamic revolution in Iran, a deal was made between Canada and Iran to buy the IIAF's Tomcats... but shortly before the deal was finalised, Canada's role in something (I want to say the Tehran hostage thing) came to light, and the Iranians cancelled the deal.
I'm not even sure I'll be able to /start/ this before the GB is over, but at least the GB has inspired me to do an F-14 in Asia Minor scheme with Canadian markings...
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Greg, please don't tempt me to build a Montana PLEASE!!! I have enough scratch build projects going on now :-\
(http://militaryfactory.com/ships/imgs/uss-montana-bb67.jpg)
(http://preview.turbosquid.com/Preview/2012/01/01__07_18_35/Montana-Sig.jpg09b190e4-5f35-4f7d-8e26-96b39af242dbLarge.jpg)
I am evil Greg...I am Evil Greg...
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_M00XSxoV5I4/Rx528zlGMnI/AAAAAAAAADA/k6IUmRVlBy8/s200/evil+homer.JPG)
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Canadian options from the competition that led to the Hornet - F-16, Mirage F.1, Tornado, F-18L, F-15...
Wasn't the Viggen chucked into that ring briefly as well?
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Canadian options from the competition that led to the Hornet - F-16, Mirage F.1, Tornado, F-18L, F-15...
Wasn't the Viggen chucked into that ring briefly as well?
... now I need to put a CAF Viggen on my list of future projects...
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Not inspiration per se, but Squadron.com is having a whopping big sale until the 27th - and I
noticed that the 'Stratos 4' version of the TSR 2 is available at a fair mark-down.
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Canada shoulda bought Eagles!
([url]http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m309/ChernayaAkula/WhIf/F-15C-CAF-BalkanRat.png[/url])
Nice! :) now I know what I'll do my 1/48 Eagle as ---
Just a mention though Moritz, the Hornets were designated CF-188, maybe the Eagle would have been a CF-155 (that would mean that the CT-155 Hawk would have had to be a CT-156 or 7 later though)
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CF-150 would also have been available back then!
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Speaking of inspiration, does anybody have plan views for the Armstrong Whitworth AW .171 Supersonic VTOL project? I thought
there was a set back at What-If, but I can't find 'em now...I'm thinking about taking a crack at that pointy beuaty in 1/48th...
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This one?
(http://www.strange-mecha.com/aircraft/FW/aw171.JPG)
This is the best I have:
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/AWA171_1_zps1d673d50.gif)
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I can think of a few nations that really Should have bought F-20s ... and perhaps even more nations that Should have taken the chance and bought the - at the time - untried SAAB Gripen.
... it Could have happened that the invention of workable jet engines Would have been delayed another 10 years , or so. Supermarine 391, DH Vampire with an RR Eagle, DH Hornet beefed up to carry Griffon engines...
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That'll work - Thanks, Greg!
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You can make a Coulda Woulda Shoulda argument for the RAF buying F-14s or F-15s instead of Tornado ADVs. There were good reasons why they chose not to at the time the decision was made (mid 1970s) but the debate was a real one: see Battle Flight for details.
Some more:
Britain buys US-built F-86s in 1950 (rather than Canadian ones in 1953) so that the RAF can go to Korea, then develops and builds the Avon-Sabre as a joint British/Aussie project (use a Special Hobby F-86H as the basis of the model). Combine this with the FAA going Grumman (see other posts) and you have Hawker reduced to a licenced producer of other people's designs.
At the time of the F-16 sale to the Netherlands/Belgium/Norway/Denmark consortium, the British proposal was for a 50/50 split between Jaguars for strike and Mirage F1-53s (M53 engine) for air defence. What if the consortium had decided that buying European was more important and actually gone for this option?
Buccaneer shouldas: RAF (stretched with afterburners and bogie u/c instead of TSR.2 in 1960), Germany (Marineflieger at least: they were interested), Australia, India....
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Buccaneer shouldas: RAF (stretched with afterburners and bogie u/c instead of TSR.2 in 1960), Germany (Marineflieger at least: they were interested), Australia, India....
Like these ;)
(http://www.modelblokez.org.au/bthpix/whatif/raafbucc.jpg)
(http://www.modelblokez.org.au/bthpix/whatif/luftbucc.jpg)
(http://www.modelblokez.org.au/bthpix/whatif/usnbucc.jpg)
Now India.. there is one Whiffer Bucc I have not done...hmmmmm 8)
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The USN Bucc looks right, very very believable
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Those are great Buzzbomb: the Marineflieger Bucc is so "shoulda" it hurts, doesn't it? (Hawker Siddeley had a serious go at that, but their salesmen wern't in the same league as Lockheed's and they got absolutely no help from HMG either.... >:D)
An Indian Bucc makes sense to me: they have a clear anti-shipping requirement (look at the Jaguar Ms) and the "nuclear bomber" issue obviously wasn't a showstopper when we sold them Canberra B(I).8s.
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You can make a Coulda Woulda Shoulda argument for the RAF buying F-14s or F-15s instead of Tornado ADVs. There were good reasons why they chose not to at the time the decision was made (mid 1970s) but the debate was a real one: see Battle Flight for details.
Some more:
Britain buys US-built F-86s in 1950 (rather than Canadian ones in 1953) so that the RAF can go to Korea, then develops and builds the Avon-Sabre as a joint British/Aussie project (use a Special Hobby F-86H as the basis of the model). Combine this with the FAA going Grumman (see other posts) and you have Hawker reduced to a licenced producer of other people's designs.
At the time of the F-16 sale to the Netherlands/Belgium/Norway/Denmark consortium, the British proposal was for a 50/50 split between Jaguars for strike and Mirage F1-53s (M53 engine) for air defence. What if the consortium had decided that buying European was more important and actually gone for this option?
Buccaneer shouldas: RAF (stretched with afterburners and bogie u/c instead of TSR.2 in 1960), Germany (Marineflieger at least: they were interested), Australia, India....
RN gets CVA 1, 2 & 3 then needs to replace the F-4K with something that can fly from a carrier in the late 80s, enter the RR Spey (enhanced) powered F-14K. RAF gets annoyed that the FAA can run rings around them and cans the ADV in favour of something hotter....
One Coulda, Woulda, Shoulda I keep coming back to is the Hawker Henley, the RAF should have ordered it and in addition the RN should have developed the Hurricane and Henley as replacements for the Nimrod and Osprey.
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Going back to the 1930s, one "shoulda" might be the RAF ordering a radial-engined monoplane fighter instead of buying too many Gladiators. The Gloster F.5/34 would be ideal, and would form the basis of a useful naval fighter too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloster_F.5/34 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloster_F.5/34)
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Going back to the 1930s, one "shoulda" might be the RAF ordering a radial-engined monoplane fighter instead of buying too many Gladiators. The Gloster F.5/34 would be ideal, and would form the basis of a useful naval fighter too.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloster_F.5/34[/url] ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloster_F.5/34[/url])
There is actually a 1/72 kit (if you are into that deviant scale) available too:
(http://www.scalemates.com/products/img/4/8/2/139482-11200.jpg?nr=7572&company=magna%20models&name=gloster%20f.5/34)
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It could have happened that Rockwell's proposal was selected, instead of Grumman's, for what became known as X-29.
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Going back to the 1930s, one "shoulda" might be the RAF ordering a radial-engined monoplane fighter instead of buying too many Gladiators. The Gloster F.5/34 would be ideal, and would form the basis of a useful naval fighter too.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloster_F.5/34[/url] ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloster_F.5/34[/url])
There is actually a 1/72 kit (if you are into that deviant scale) available too:
([url]http://www.scalemates.com/products/img/4/8/2/139482-11200.jpg?nr=7572&company=magna%20models&name=gloster%20f.5/34[/url])
And MPM are going to do one in styrene
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That is a very nice looking aircraft. I've never heard of it but it looks like a copy of the Japanese Zero. Would it have been as good ?
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I've never heard of it but it looks like a copy of the Japanese Zero.
Other way around Ennis
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Really ?
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Really ?
Allegedly.... ;)
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Going back to the 1930s, one "shoulda" might be the RAF ordering a radial-engined monoplane fighter instead of buying too many Gladiators. The Gloster F.5/34 would be ideal, and would form the basis of a useful naval fighter too.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloster_F.5/34[/url] ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloster_F.5/34[/url])
There is actually a 1/72 kit (if you are into that deviant scale) available too:
([url]http://www.scalemates.com/products/img/4/8/2/139482-11200.jpg?nr=7572&company=magna%20models&name=gloster%20f.5/34[/url])
And MPM are going to do one in styrene
Found some mold shots here (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234938321-172-plt258-gloster-f534/).
(http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u677/petr-MPM/Planet/PLT258%20Gloster/glosterIMG_8115_zpsb12387dc.jpg)
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(http://www.boeing.com/news/frontiers/archive/2004/october/photos/oct_i_history1.jpg)
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just gotta love Rockwell's Sabrebat, i saw the mockup at Paris many years ago and grabbed every brochure and piccie they had avaliable at the trade stand, possibly the most beautiful aircraft ever designed ? :-*
:D joe
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A rumour I heard from a (now deceased) colleague would be a good Woulda, Coulda, Shoulda. Basically Australia didn't deploy land forces to Desert Storm because their armoured vehicles were seen as not survivable, this bloke I knew was a WO combat spanner in 1 Armoured Regiment at the time and told me that Germany offered to provide Australia with vehicles straight from their stocks so that 1 Armd and possibly the whole of 1 Bde could have deployed. Think Leo 2s (and / or Leopard 1A5) and Marders, plus Fuchs and possibly Lynx equipping an Australian brigade group in Desert Storm. Also at this time Australia had quite good relations with Sweden and it is conceivable (though unlikely) that the S Tank could have been offered to beef up the DFS / AT capability of the mechanised infantry or cavalry in the initial Desert Shield phase before being used as assault guns during Desert Storm.
A desert diorama of buff or sand painted Leo 1 A5, 2s, Marders, M-113, MRV, S Tanks, etc comes to mind.
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Time for some more inspiration:
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/photo_zps88b0170a.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/photo_zps903848f0.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/photo_zps338b8f04.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/photo_zps6ebd412c.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/photo_zpsceb65d8f.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/photo_zps29f7d6f5.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/photo_zpsbd3d6a75.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/photo_zps260f5014.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/photo_zps57599496.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/photo_zpscb15da6a.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/photo_zps1adeda82.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/photo_zps85294869.jpg)
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That Starfighter with the Draken recon nose! :icon_surprised: Tis beautiful! :-* *eyes-Hase-RF-35-and-Starfighter-in-the-stash* And is that a frame-less windscreen?
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I love the Avon Sabre in RAN FAA markings... Sweet! :-*
;)
Guy
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I know that 1:1 Whiff!! An Avon Sabre in VC-724 sqdn Macchi 326 colours, got some pics of my own of that, certainly upset the senior RAAFies at Avalon (? I think ?) ;D but that'll learn 'em for allowing sailors to paint it for their aircraft finishing course!!!! ;D ;D ;D 8) 8) 8)
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I know that 1:1 Whiff!! An Avon Sabre in VC-724 sqdn Macchi 326 colours, got some pics of my own of that, certainly upset the senior RAAFies at Avalon (? I think ?) ;D but that'll learn 'em for allowing sailors to paint it for their aircraft finishing course!!!! ;D ;D ;D 8) 8) 8)
Love that scheme and can think of a number of aircraft that would look great in it, have even bought the insignia blue and some of the kits to do it at some point. Gnat or Goshawk anyone?
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Oooo, Goshawk please 8)
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Here you go:
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/Greater%20Australia/T-45OCDF.jpg)
Not quite RAN FAA but close since it is the OCDF FAA from my Greater Australia (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=3.0) story.
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Was doing a Hawk 100 and was considering RAN FAA but Widgeways managed to lose the tail plane
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Now that's an answer to a wish!! :) Thanx GTX ! :)