Author Topic: What If: The IDF used Panthers instead of Shermans??  (Read 16589 times)

Offline tankmodeler

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Re: What If: The IDF used Panthers instead of Shermans??
« Reply #25 on: January 04, 2016, 12:01:36 PM »
So, I've gotten some work done on my IDF M51 Panther. Just a few more details and she's ready for paint.

[img width= height=]http://gallery3.kitmaker.net/data/30094/front36.jpg[/img]
[img width= height=]http://gallery3.kitmaker.net/data/30094/back16.jpg[/img]
[img width= height=]http://gallery3.kitmaker.net/data/30094/left7.jpg[/img]
[img width= height=]http://gallery3.kitmaker.net/data/30094/left21.jpg[/img]
[img width= height=]http://gallery3.kitmaker.net/data/30094/right10.jpg[/img]
[img width= height=]http://gallery3.kitmaker.net/data/30094/right21.jpg[/img]
[img width= height=]http://gallery3.kitmaker.net/data/30094/t011.jpg[/img]
[img width= height=]http://gallery3.kitmaker.net/data/30094/t021.jpg[/img]
[img width= height=]http://gallery3.kitmaker.net/data/30094/turrdetail1.jpg[/img]

So? Whattaya think?

Paul

Offline apophenia

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Re: What If: The IDF used Panthers instead of Shermans??
« Reply #26 on: January 04, 2016, 12:24:48 PM »
Nice work ... you've really caught that IDF armour look  :)
"It happens sometimes. People just explode. Natural causes." - Agent Rogersz

Offline Logan Hartke

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Re: What If: The IDF used Panthers instead of Shermans??
« Reply #27 on: January 04, 2016, 12:43:18 PM »
Very nice. You've certainly changed the silhouette of the Panther. I do like the way the bustle interacts with the new engine deck.

Cheers,

Logan

Offline ChernayaAkula

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Re: What If: The IDF used Panthers instead of Shermans??
« Reply #28 on: January 04, 2016, 02:02:45 PM »
Fantastic work!  :-*
Cheers,
Moritz

"The appropriate response to reality is to go insane!"

Offline finsrin

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Re: What If: The IDF used Panthers instead of Shermans??
« Reply #29 on: January 04, 2016, 02:38:00 PM »
Wonderfulness in armor realm :)
You and IDF are on to the right mods........

Offline Buzzbomb

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Re: What If: The IDF used Panthers instead of Shermans??
« Reply #30 on: January 06, 2016, 08:48:18 AM »
Just terrific

Offline Zaskar24

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Re: What If: The IDF used Panthers instead of Shermans??
« Reply #31 on: January 06, 2016, 09:25:12 AM »
This build is really great. I really like how it changes the look of the Panther to very IDF while still remaining recognizable as a Panther. I cannot wait to see it painted and finished.

I do have a question. Before up-gunning to the 105 did it retain it's original 75 since the M50 version of the Sherman used a main gun based loosely on the Panther's gun IRL?

Offline tankmodeler

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Re: What If: The IDF used Panthers instead of Shermans??
« Reply #32 on: January 06, 2016, 12:02:29 PM »
I would have imagined that it kept the KwK 75 as you say. In my imaginary world, the mods to the earliest IDF panthers would have centred around fixing the mechanical deficiencies of the original. Probably a new engine and updated drive train, including strengthened final drive mounting (which you can see as welded gussets under the glacis) and strengthened swing arms and road wheels (which you can't see). The initial mods to the Shermans centred around it's biggest deficiency, poor firepower.

The second round of mods would be what you see here, an even further up-powered engine (the AVDS-1790) of the M60, the IR suppression system from the M60 plus the French 105. What you can't see here is the new tranny to go with it. The bustle is added partially to balance the 105 and partially to locate the radio up into the turret allowing the assistant driver to be eliminated and replaced with ammo stowage for the larger 105mm rounds.

It's at this stage that the up-armouring with homogeneous plate would have happened to reduce the instance of the armour shattering if overmatched. The new AVDS-1790 engine and tranny being more than capable of handling the extra 4 tons of armour and also providing a little extra speed and much more bottom end torque for quick acceleration and manoeuvering. The economy of the diesel was also much appreciated increasing the Panther's range even with the other benefits.

Operationally, during the 1973 war they served with reserve units and constituted the bulk of the second line blocking forces on the Jordanian front until shifted North to take part in the attacks into Syria. While technically seriously outmatched by Syrian T-55s and T-62s, the M51'5 potent 105mm gun and superior Israeli training and tactics meant that the Panthers actually came out well ahead in those tank on tank engagements of the last part of the war.

By 1975 or so the M51 Panthers were getting long in the tooth and the writing was clearly on the wall, but with 20+ years of service in the IDF there were a lot of spares for the remaining vehicles and they found ready homes with the Lebanese Christian forces and also in South America with the Argentinians and Peruvians operating them into the 90s.

Today the last few ex-IDF M51 Panthers serve in Peru as training tanks.

How's that for a comprehensive history that never was?  ;)

I think I'm going to paint and mark it as one of the reserve brigade vehicles during the assault into Syria near the end of the war.

Paul

Offline Zaskar24

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Re: What If: The IDF used Panthers instead of Shermans??
« Reply #33 on: January 11, 2016, 12:59:59 AM »
Thank you for the reply and that is a great back story for the conversion. It makes perfect sense considering how the IDF went about upgrading vehicles so that they would remain competitive on the battlefield.

Looking forward to seeing it painted and finished.

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: What If: The IDF used Panthers instead of Shermans??
« Reply #34 on: January 11, 2016, 07:09:01 PM »
The PzKpfw LI Über Panther!

Very nice! 8)
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline Zaskar24

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Re: What If: The IDF used Panthers instead of Shermans??
« Reply #35 on: November 07, 2016, 02:13:11 AM »
Any updates on this build tankmodeler? I would love to see this one finished.

Offline Claymore

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Re: What If: The IDF used Panthers instead of Shermans??
« Reply #36 on: November 07, 2016, 02:32:05 AM »
Woof! Just seen this one and absolutely loving it.  :)

Any updates?
Pass the razor saw, there is work to be done!

Offline apophenia

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Re: What If: The IDF used Panthers instead of Shermans??
« Reply #37 on: November 07, 2016, 03:29:48 AM »
Any updates on this build tankmodeler? I would love to see this one finished.

Seconded tankmodeler  :D
"It happens sometimes. People just explode. Natural causes." - Agent Rogersz

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: What If: The IDF used Panthers instead of Shermans??
« Reply #38 on: November 07, 2016, 09:01:12 AM »
I'm ... Um? ... [Quick count] ... fourthing the request! :D
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: What If: The IDF used Panthers instead of Shermans??
« Reply #39 on: November 07, 2016, 04:44:31 PM »
No pressure... ;D
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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Offline tankmodeler

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Re: What If: The IDF used Panthers instead of Shermans??
« Reply #40 on: November 07, 2016, 10:39:05 PM »
Well there's not been much progress in the last few months as I've been moving and prepping the old house for sale, packing and now renoing the new house which has left both little time and no shop space to actually get any modelling done.  :icon_crap:

That said, I did get the base coat of paint on as well as the basic decals. Detail paint plus the weathering are next and I hope to be up and running enough to get back to this by Christmas. Hope...

No pictures, so feel free to let me know that it hasn't happened yet...   ;)

Paul
 

Offline Zaskar24

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Re: What If: The IDF used Panthers instead of Shermans??
« Reply #41 on: November 08, 2016, 07:12:55 PM »
Thank you for the reply. Good luck with selling the house, I know it is something that I hate to do since there is always so much that you find that needs to be done. Added to the fact that the shows on television make buyers think that houses have to be perfect.

Looking forward to seeing this one finished.

Offline tankmodeler

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Re: What If: The IDF used Panthers instead of Shermans??
« Reply #42 on: November 09, 2016, 10:44:26 PM »
Thanks.

We did have good luck on the house and got what we wanted, pretty much on the nose. However, we bought a fixer upper and are deep in the mire of a massive reno. It'll be next summer, if I'm lucky, before my shop is up an running. In the meantime, though, I only have detail paint and weathering to do on this one, so it may proceed slowly between the dust storms of the reno over the winter. :)

Paul