Author Topic: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration  (Read 138311 times)

Offline elmayerle

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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #275 on: October 08, 2017, 03:16:15 AM »
I'll take your word for it; though the other option does seem like a fun way to confozzle JMN's.

If not "razorback", then perhaps "fastback"?  I know that term is used for early Cessna 172's before they went to the "all-around vision" cut-down rear fuselage with swept vertical tale.

Fastback GT1650.  ;D  ;)
*SNORT!*  I love it!

Offline FAAMAN

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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #276 on: October 08, 2017, 06:50:16 AM »
How about just leaving P-51D/K Mustangs as "bubble top", it's bad enough that some seem to think that the beautifully elegant Spitfire is a "Razorback", a term which suits the hulking great P-47C/D (early) admirably, and just does not suit the Spitfire nor the P-51B/C at all.
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Offline Old Wombat

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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #277 on: October 08, 2017, 06:20:49 PM »
High back? ???
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline jcf

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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #278 on: October 09, 2017, 02:07:08 AM »
Nope, I'm with FAAMAN, anything pre-D does not require a modifier, as it's general
knowledge that the bubble-canopy was introduced on the D.
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Sense doesn’t come into it. People are
more scared of how complicated shit
actually is than they ever are about
whatever’s supposed to be behind the
conspiracy.”
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Offline kitnut617

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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #279 on: October 09, 2017, 02:49:31 AM »
Nope, I'm with FAAMAN, anything pre-D does not require a modifier, as it's general
knowledge that the bubble-canopy was introduced on the D.

Ditto

Offline GTX_Admin

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Offline kitnut617

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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #281 on: June 02, 2018, 07:45:05 AM »
gorgeous -----

Offline Twiddle

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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #282 on: September 07, 2018, 01:25:19 AM »
Twin-engined P-51 with a power plant layout similiar to the Fairey Gannet ?

With Skyraider wings + ordnance loadout.

SEA camouflage
Kit instructions are not acceptable - let the imagination howl forth !

Offline Logan Hartke

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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #283 on: September 07, 2018, 01:55:30 AM »
Twin-engined P-51 with a power plant layout similiar to the Fairey Gannet ?

I don't even know how that'd work. Because the Gannet's double Mamble engines were side by side, it was a pretty wide arrangement. That might work on something like a P-47 or a Corsair, but the P-51 was designed for the narrowest possible airframe around the Allison engine. So the blending may be pretty...tough. The fuselage cross-sections were just designed differently.

Cheers,

Logan

Offline kitnut617

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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #284 on: September 07, 2018, 10:35:00 PM »
Twin-engined P-51 with a power plant layout similiar to the Fairey Gannet ?

With Skyraider wings + ordnance loadout.

SEA camouflage

With a P-51H, you've got a fairly good start. But I would go with one F-82 fuselage ----

Offline elmayerle

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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #285 on: September 07, 2018, 11:10:51 PM »
Twin-engined P-51 with a power plant layout similiar to the Fairey Gannet ?

I don't even know how that'd work. Because the Gannet's double Mamble engines were side by side, it was a pretty wide arrangement. That might work on something like a P-47 or a Corsair, but the P-51 was designed for the narrowest possible airframe around the Allison engine. So the blending may be pretty...tough. The fuselage cross-sections were just designed differently.
ISTR that there was an advanced P-81 variant schemed with a Gannet-like double turboprop installation at the front end.  Perhaps that could be a starting point?

Offline kitnut617

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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #286 on: September 08, 2018, 01:16:13 AM »
There's also a size difference between a P-51 and a Gannet/Skyraider, the P-51 being nearly half the size of the other two  ----

Offline jcf

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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #287 on: September 08, 2018, 01:58:07 AM »
Why does the twinned engine setup have to be a side-by-side arrangement
like the Double-Mamba, why not stacked vertically?

Nor does it have to be of a size similar to the Double-Mamba, and certainly not
in the T40 range.

P&W Canada PT6T-6 (Twin-Pac)
Mechanical shp: 1,875   
RPM: 6,600   
Height: 32.5"   
Width: 43.5"
Length: 66"



Note that height includes the offset accessories, rearrange, turn the engine 90° and that height
becomes a much narrower width.
“Conspiracy theory’s got to be simple.
Sense doesn’t come into it. People are
more scared of how complicated shit
actually is than they ever are about
whatever’s supposed to be behind the
conspiracy.”
-The Peripheral, William Gibson 2014

Offline Logan Hartke

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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #288 on: September 08, 2018, 02:30:35 AM »
I was thinking about that same thing, jcf, when the question was originally posed. I know of no reason why it couldn't be done that way. I don't know whether anyone has or not (or what trade-offs such a choice might present).

Cheers,

Logan

Offline Rickshaw

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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #289 on: September 08, 2018, 09:53:41 AM »
Assuming you want this to work like a Gannet, I think you'd need a new gearbox in front of the engine, so unsure how large that would be.  The twinpac has separate powertakeoffs if I'm not mistaken, the Double Mamba had a single power take off to the propeller gearbox which could allow one prop to be stopped while the other continued operating.

Offline jcf

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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #290 on: September 08, 2018, 03:34:08 PM »
Yes, Brian the turboshaft PT6T is a different animal, I was using it as an
example of packaging rather than what would be used.


Incidentally the Allison T40, couple T38s, also had the ability to run the engines
separately.
“Conspiracy theory’s got to be simple.
Sense doesn’t come into it. People are
more scared of how complicated shit
actually is than they ever are about
whatever’s supposed to be behind the
conspiracy.”
-The Peripheral, William Gibson 2014

Offline kitnut617

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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #291 on: September 08, 2018, 06:40:33 PM »
Why does the twinned engine setup have to be a side-by-side arrangement
like the Double-Mamba, why not stacked vertically?

Nor does it have to be of a size similar to the Double-Mamba, and certainly not
in the T40 range.

P&W Canada PT6T-6 (Twin-Pac)
Mechanical shp: 1,875   
RPM: 6,600   
Height: 32.5"   
Width: 43.5"
Length: 66"



Note that height includes the offset accessories, rearrange, turn the engine 90° and that height
becomes a much narrower width.

You could orientate the engines themselves, so the exhaust exited each side of the aircraft ---- hmm  interesting proposition  --- 

Offline elmayerle

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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #292 on: September 09, 2018, 02:36:31 AM »
Incidentally the Allison T40, couple T38s, also had the ability to run the engines
separately.
As, if it had ever been built, would have the T54 (two coupled T56 gas generators); basically an improved T40 much as the T56 is an improved T38.

Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #293 on: October 13, 2018, 01:12:57 AM »
How about a P-51 with the Allison V-1710 and turbosupercharger from the P-38.  The original P-51s had this engine, though without turbosupercharger.  What if instead of going to the Merlin, they simply added the turbosupercharger from the P-38 to provide the higher altitude performance sought?


I had a bash ... but she's not much of a looker! http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=988.0;attach=2211;image

Might it be simpler to adopt a Thunderbolt-style turbo system to the P-51?

BTW: as their starting point, these images used bits and pieces from various Gaëtan Marie profiles -- http://mustang.gaetanmarie.com/profiles.htm


Reengining Mustang with turbocharged Allison, taken from P-38J.

« Last Edit: October 13, 2018, 01:19:33 AM by ysi_maniac »

Offline Kelmola

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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #294 on: October 15, 2018, 06:35:07 AM »
So, where does the intercooler go? Where the oil cooler used to be? ;)

Offline elmayerle

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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #295 on: October 15, 2018, 08:23:16 AM »
So, where does the intercooler go? Where the oil cooler used to be? ;)
It would be a convoluted flow path, but perhaps where the radiator is on a Ki-78?

Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #296 on: October 15, 2018, 08:29:39 AM »
How about a Pilot and 3 passengers?


CF-WWH four-seater with CF-100 Canuck canopy, named "Miss Behave".     Photo via Derek Macphail

More information here: AUSTRALIAN CIVIL MUSTANGS
« Last Edit: October 15, 2018, 09:16:05 AM by The Big Gimper »
Work in progress ::

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Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #297 on: October 17, 2018, 01:00:28 AM »
Reengining Mustang Deutchstil


Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #298 on: October 23, 2018, 09:42:19 AM »
... to accomodate turbocompressor intercooler?  ???


Offline tankmodeler

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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #299 on: October 23, 2018, 11:11:48 PM »
... to accommodate turbocompressor intercooler?  ???
Don't think there's enough room behind the turbocharger/intercooler in that location to accommodate it and the plumbing of the exhaust to the turbocharger from the engine. Too many sharp bends and pressure losses.

Might have to be routed aft of the cockpit, moving at least some of the fuel there ahead of the cockpit or moving the cockpit forward.

It's a tricky game to play with the plumbing and CG of a fighter.   ???

Paul