Vought (LTV) A-7 Corsair II Ideas and Inspiration

[GTX_Admin]

Hi folks,

A thread for your Vought (LTV) A-7 Corsair II Ideas and Inspiration.

To begin with, here are some real life proposals to fit 30mm gun installations on the single seat A-7D aircraft for the USAF.  These were posted over on Secret Projects by Bill S.

They studied two different cannons: GAU-8 Gatling Gun and Oerlikon 304RK. They also studied two different configurations: Internally mounted and podded.

The recommendation was for a stretched A-7 (same dimensions as the trainer) with a single seat, and internally mounted GAU-8 with 391 rounds of ammunition. This configuration was chosen due to the increased effectiveness of the GAU-8 and the least effects on the flight characteristics during gun firing.

All drawings from a photocopy of a slide presentation, original not available. All information from Vought Heritage Collection.

[GTX_Admin]

Another real world proposal: twin-engined version:

[GTX_Admin]

Another real world proposal (that got further tan most too) - the A-7F:

[kitnut617]

All you photo links are just appearing as the dreaded 'white box with red cross' Greg

[GTX_Admin]

Bugger!  They work for me - try now.

[GTX_Admin]

How about Argentine or even Iraqi A-7s?

[Maverick]

Did profiles of Argentinian and Iraqi SLUFs back in 08 amongst others.

Regards,

John

[GTX_Admin]

Did profiles of Argentinian and Iraqi SLUFs back in 08 amongst others.

Regards,

John

Well, repost them man...

[Maverick]

Here you go.




Regards,

John

[GTX_Admin]

Nice. :)

[kitnut617]

Bugger!  They work for me - try now.

That worked whatever you did   :)

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Take a good look at the weapon mounted on this A-7A in the image below.  It is the W61 TIGER II Extended Range Nuclear Bomb (ERB) based on the B-61 bomb with a rocket motor and terminal guidance package added on.  It never made it into production but that certainly should not stop us from fabricating something in model scale to arm our aircraft. 

Click on thumbnail to view larger image


(Source page is Replica in Scale Blog)

[upnorth]

Looking at the twin engined concepts, why not widen the forward fuselage too?

That could give the aircraft a side by side two person crew and maybe accommodation for bigger radar. That could give the Intruder a competitor and would also result in an aircraft with a possibly very curvaceous area ruled fuselage.

[GTX_Admin]

I wonder...VG A-7?

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Looking at the twin engined concepts, why not widen the forward fuselage too?

That could give the aircraft a side by side two person crew and maybe accommodation for bigger radar. That could give the Intruder a competitor and would also result in an aircraft with a possibly very curvaceous area ruled fuselage.

Maybe a scale-o-rama using a smaller scale cockpit from some aircraft that has side by side seating arrangements such as the Canberra, Sea Vixen, Sea Venom, A-6, A-37, or F-111 and use that in a larger scale A-7 which could net you the desired results.  That would make a very interesting looking aircraft with twin side by side seating. 

[Weaver]

Looking at the twin engined concepts, why not widen the forward fuselage too?

That could give the aircraft a side by side two person crew and maybe accommodation for bigger radar. That could give the Intruder a competitor and would also result in an aircraft with a possibly very curvaceous area ruled fuselage.

Maybe a scale-o-rama using a smaller scale cockpit from some aircraft that has side by side seating arrangements such as the Canberra, Sea Vixen, Sea Venom, A-6, A-37, or F-111 and use that in a larger scale A-7 which could net you the desired results.  That would make a very interesting looking aircraft with twin side by side seating.

The front part of an AD-5 Skyraider canopy is worth looking at too.

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Looking at the twin engined concepts, why not widen the forward fuselage too?

That could give the aircraft a side by side two person crew and maybe accommodation for bigger radar. That could give the Intruder a competitor and would also result in an aircraft with a possibly very curvaceous area ruled fuselage.

Maybe a scale-o-rama using a smaller scale cockpit from some aircraft that has side by side seating arrangements such as the Canberra, Sea Vixen, Sea Venom, A-6, A-37, or F-111 and use that in a larger scale A-7 which could net you the desired results.  That would make a very interesting looking aircraft with twin side by side seating.

The front part of an AD-5 Skyraider canopy is worth looking at too.

Yep, that could work too.  Ignored most anything that had propellers since it was a jet powered aircraft but if it is small enough the little details are going to get lost so that could open up several other aircraft types for their cockpits.

[jschmus]

This month's article on Air Vectors covers all the variants of the A-7.

http://airvectors.net/ava7.html

There's not really any "new" info there, but it's nice having it all in one location.

[GTX_Admin]

Israeli A-7 anyone.  In this scheme:

[Rickshaw]

...with extended tailpipe of course! 

[Geoff]

Yes!

[elmayerle]

I'm thinking that an exhaust mixer to mix the core and bypass flows would work better than the extended exhaust on that A-4.  Having a turbofan instead of a turbojet does give you more options.  Much the same approach was used to reduce the exhaust IR signature on low-observables vehicles that I'm familiar with.

[upnorth]

Just backtracking to the side by side seating idea that could grow from the two engine variation; I was looking at pics of EE Lightnings for other reasons recently and the idea hit me that the trainer Lightning canopy might be just the thing for the application.

[GTX_Admin]

Just backtracking to the side by side seating idea that could grow from the two engine variation; I was looking at pics of EE Lightnings for other reasons recently and the idea hit me that the trainer Lightning canopy might be just the thing for the application.

That would look cool.

[Daryl J.]

For those who want to put something on an IPMS display table this paint scheme from Richard Chafer along with a few fairly easy modifications might just knock some socks off:





Then, make the radome more pointed like the F-8 Crusader series.  Why?   Simple visual change only.    Add a couple Sea Eagle missiles and wing tanks.  British Chaff/Flare dispensers.  Button it up with appropriate Remove Before Flight flags/covers for a bit more color.     Either single seat or two seat variant to be used. 

[Daryl J.]

Bone stock.  Afghanistan.

[elmayerle]

As far as I know, the reasoning behind the twin-engined (pair of F404's), in addition to improved performance, was political.  The F404 was made in Teddy Kennedy's home state and Tip O'Neil's (at the time, Speaker of the House) home district, and that would be a definite boost in prospects.

[GTX_Admin]

I wonder if anyone will release this scheme in a set of decals:

[ChernayaAkula]

^ Icarus Decals have got you covered! LINK!  :)
Also available in 1/72.

[raafif]

Italy (F-104) & Greece (A-7) also did aircraft in similar schemes - decals also (were) available.

[GTX_Admin]

Random ideas:

West German A-7
French A-7
Iranian A-7

[Volkodav]

The A-7 is another type just crying out for an overall Foliage Green Australian army aviation scheme.  I know the current scheme looks pretty good but an idea that is growing on me is army aviation retains its WWII pacific theatre scheme (which is the same as the RAAF tactical air force scheme for some strange reason) as standard through until the 1990s. 

Probably a little over the top but maybe in addition to Australian Army, there could also be RAN FAA and RAM versions.  I don't think the RAAF would bother with a mud mover, or even a strike fighter, as they prefer to concentrate on strategic and medium bombers and reconnaissance aircraft, air superiority fighters, interceptors and strategic transports.

[Weaver]

I wonder if you could convert an A-7 to use a Jaguar-style long, soft, big wheels undercarriage? It would make an excellent CAS/BAI type with a genuine rough field capability.

[Volkodav]

I wonder if you could convert an A-7 to use a Jaguar-style long, soft, big wheels undercarriage? It would make an excellent CAS/BAI type with a genuine rough field capability.

Well there goes my Australian Army A-7, the Jaguar would be better wouldn't it....maybe superseding the Hunter FGA9 (how was the FGAs rough field performance?)

Still leaves FAA and RAM though 

[Weaver]

I wonder if you could convert an A-7 to use a Jaguar-style long, soft, big wheels undercarriage? It would make an excellent CAS/BAI type with a genuine rough field capability.

Well there goes my Australian Army A-7, the Jaguar would be better wouldn't it....maybe superseding the Hunter FGA9 (how was the FGAs rough field performance?)

Still leaves FAA and RAM though 

Not neccessarily: the Jaguar has more speed and rough field than the A-7, but the latter has more range/loiter-time and payload. You could argue that the Corsair is the more "Armyish" aircraft in the same way that an A-10 is more Armyish than an F-16. Suppose the USAF had got solidly behind the A-7 instead of taking it grudgingly and developed a rough-field version for itself: that would be an ideal path to get it into the hands of other air forces.

The Hunrter's rough field capability was pretty non-existent AFAIK. It was always short of ground clearance and I could see it striking the tail very easily in a rough field landing.

For rough field, you need low ground pressure (multiple and/or big, low-pressure tires) so that you don't sink into soft ground,  long-stroke u/c legs with progressive springing and damping (soft at first then firming up with more travel) so that every bump in rough ground doesn't get transmitted to the airframe, and the slowest possible landing/takeoff speeds to give the tires and suspension the least to deal with.

Once you've got on the ground, you then need to be able to support the aircraft with minimum external equipment, so on-board starters and diagnostic equipment and inspection panels and weapon pylons that are reachable from the ground without mechanical assistance all help. This is something that people don't give the Jag enough credit for: it was way less "needy" than the Tornado or Mirage, and if you look at the history of British/French interventions, Jags were usually the first to deploy.

[Old Wombat]

The A-7 is another type just crying out for an overall Foliage Green Australian army aviation scheme.  I know the current scheme looks pretty good but an idea that is growing on me is army aviation retains its WWII pacific theatre scheme (which is the same as the RAAF tactical air force scheme for some strange reason) as standard through until the 1990s. 

Probably a little over the top but maybe in addition to Australian Army, there could also be RAN FAA and RAM versions.  I don't think the RAAF would bother with a mud mover, or even a strike fighter, as they prefer to concentrate on strategic and medium bombers and reconnaissance aircraft, air superiority fighters, interceptors and strategic transports.

RAM version is already being developed (in my head, so far) but I have 3 x A-7's in my stash, an A-7D, an A-7E & an A-7K (which I'm going to navalise & electrify as the EA-7L).

You've got me thinking, though, & I may do the "D" as an Army version just for schitzngigls - may even give it the white tail.

[Kerick]

The narrow wheel spacing of the main gear of the A-7 was always a problem. IIRC the A-7 would usually take the arrestor wire on landing if it was raining to keep from going off the edge of the runway. Not good if its using rough fields.

[GTX_Admin]

Get a load of that airbrake:

[Rickshaw]

Move it to the top of the fuselage, on top of the wing juncture box.   It must have made life quite difficult in that position during an approach to a carrier.

[Weaver]

Move it to the top of the fuselage, on top of the wing juncture box.   It must have made life quite difficult in that position during an approach to a carrier.

I could see that causing severe buffet over the fin, leading to a loss of yaw stability: also not good on approach to a carrier.

My vote for alternative airbrakes would be Tornado-style ones on the top corners of the rear fuselage that open at an angle from the vertical, leaving clean air flowing past the fin.

It would be an interesting a subtle whiff to reinstate the Crusader's variable incidence wing on the Corsair wouldn't it? Make everything else about it completely real-world and see who notices...

[GTX_Admin]

Random idea:  Japanese A-7 instead of their F-1.  Maybe in this sort of scheme:

[Logan Hartke]

So, I'm wondering about the long-term viability of the A-7 Corsair II. Are there additional upgrades that would have been required for Greek A-7Hs to carry JDAMs?

Cheers,

Logan

[ScranJ51]

Hey Volkodav:

what do you think?  RAN A-7D


A-7D-01 by David Freeman, on Flickr

A-7D-02 by David Freeman, on Flickr


More to come 

[GTX_Admin]

 

[The Big Gimper]

Lovely finish 

[ed s]

Move it to the top of the fuselage, on top of the wing juncture box.   It must have made life quite difficult in that position during an approach to a carrier.

I could see that causing severe buffet over the fin, leading to a loss of yaw stability: also not good on approach to a carrier.

My vote for alternative airbrakes would be Tornado-style ones on the top corners of the rear fuselage that open at an angle from the vertical, leaving clean air flowing past the fin.

It would be an interesting a subtle whiff to reinstate the Crusader's variable incidence wing on the Corsair wouldn't it? Make everything else about it completely real-world and see who notices...

As a former SLUF driver,  it was never a problem on approach. There is an interlock in the system that ensures the speedbrake is closed when the gear are down. But I can also say, it was a fun ride to put it down at high speed.

[tankmodeler]

As a former SLUF driver,

Cool!

it was never a problem on approach. There is an interlock in the system that ensures the speedbrake is closed when the gear are down. But I can also say, it was a fun ride to put it down at high speed.

How gradual was the deployment? And I can imagine that it would be rather, shall we say, "interesting" to deploy. It opens up quite a long cavity in the fuselage and is also long and narrow, two properties that would be likely to cause some noticeable turbulence and vibration even if only cracked open a little.

Paul

[Volkodav]

Hey Volkodav:

what do you think?  RAN A-7D


A-7D-01 by David Freeman, on Flickr

A-7D-02 by David Freeman, on Flickr


More to come 

How did I miss this?

Wow 

[finsrin]

How did I miss this?

Wow 

Goes for me too.
How did I miss this?

Wow 
Color scheme seems so right for mixed water and land with foliage environment.  Like how you did scheme.  Something I want to try.

[Old Wombat]

I'm going to be using a similar scheme for my RAM's A-7's with RAN F-8's having a similar scheme to our old A-4's.

[GTX_Admin]

 

[Old Wombat]

Fearless ugly mutant...

Don't know how you did it but you've managed to make the SLUF even uglier!

[tankmodeler]

Actually, I rather like it. The top of the fuselage fairs in smoothly and the Falcon nose/intake doubles down on the sharkmouth visual.

Now, a cockpit on there would destroy the look. So, as a UCAV, it looks rather OK.

[finsrin]

Actually, I rather like it. The top of the fuselage fairs in smoothly and the Falcon nose/intake doubles down on the sharkmouth visual.

Now, a cockpit on there would destroy the look. So, as a UCAV, it looks rather OK.

Yep. 

[ysi_maniac]

^^^^^
Just Perfect!

[tankmodeler]

Now, a cockpit on there would destroy the look. So, as a UCAV, it looks rather OK.

what did you say? 

Yep, just as I thought. Makes it look dumpy again.

Do not like it with the cockpit.

[GTX_Admin]

Inspiration from Richard:

[GTX_Admin]

Some more:

[GTX_Admin]

Last few:

[SebastianP]

Seeing the last couple of posts to this thread makes me want to find an A-7D kit in 1/72, modernize the airframe (GPS dome, F-16 style cheek hardpoints for sensor pods, maybe an afterburning engine nozzle), paint it up in FS 36118 (or FS 36170 if I want to be really fancy); and then hang two GBU-38s under one wing on a BRU-55/57, a rack of SDBs under the other; AIM-9X Sidewinders on the missile rails, and a SNIPER XR and maybe an AAQ-13 under the intakes...

As with most of my recent what-if ideas, I actually have everything except the airframe... and the paint, which proving a pain in the rear to get since my hobby shop is out of everything and paints appear to be the one thing that *isn't* cheaper online.

[GTX_Admin]

Another image of the A-7F:

[GTX_Admin]

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[GTX_Admin]

[Kerick]

So many great ideas here! I may try to adapt one for my Viggen/Starfighter bash.

[GTX_Admin]

Here's another idea:  Indian Air Force

[upnorth]

Get a load of that airbrake:

The thought hit me that if you wanted to replace that with a different arrangement, maybe the split aileron type that you see on the A-10 would make for an interesting look that wouldn't require any fuselage butchering.

As for other potential users of the A-7, how about Norway? That would open the door to hanging Penguin anti-ship missiles on it.

[GTX_Admin]

As for other potential users of the A-7, how about Norway? That would open the door to hanging Penguin anti-ship missiles on it.

I like your thinking.  Perhaps supplementing the F-5s?