Author Topic: Apophenia's Offerings  (Read 905146 times)

Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1675 on: November 19, 2017, 07:34:55 AM »
(Returning to an old theme - the French Defiant ...)

Boulton-Paul first acquired a license for the designs of the Societe d'Application des Machines Motrices when a French turret was successfully tried in the nose position of an Overstrand. As the Boulton-Paul 'Type A', that SAMM turret was then applied to the Defiant 2-seat fighter. The French firm then suggested joint-development of an 'Export Defiant'/'P.82 Internationale' variant. The initial concept was for this aircraft to be armed with a SAMM/B-P Type A turret armed with four French MAC 34 (belt-fed Mitrailleuse de 7,5 mm - Modèle 1934 M.39) or FN-Browning guns in the calibre specified by customers.

SAMM's key interest in the Defiant was as a potential aircraft sale to the Armée de l'Air. To that end, B-P began construction of a third prototype Defiant for demonstration. Alas, the original concept was reviewed by the STAé and rejected - the Armée de l'Air had moved firmly towards 20mm cannons as defensive armaments. Fortunately, SAMM was already designing a power-assisted mount for the preferred Hispano-Suiza HS 404 cannon.

Construction of the third prototype Defiant began under an Air Ministry contract (as K8330) but its completion without a Type A turret meant that this machine was finished before the second prototype (K8320). [1] In the end, the Air Ministry released K8330 for export development work by Boulton-Paul. [2] In July 1939, this aircraft was delivered to SAMM at Issy-les-Moulineaux where it was to be fitted with its armament.

Upon arrivable, the Defiant's 'empty' rear cockpit was reconfigured for the electro-pneumatic SAMM A/B 34 mount and its 20 mm armament. Once fitted an tested, this aircraft was immediately flown to Villacoublay for trials by the Section technique de l'aéronautique. Known to the French as the SAMM BP 82-03, [3] this aircraft was successfully put through its paces and a production order quickly issued in late Aug 1939.

(Top) The prototype SAMM BP 83-03 in its original, Merlin-powered configuration. STAé trials at Villacoublay, early August 1939. Although the SAMM A/B 34 gun-mount was praised, Boulton-Paul's sliding rear canopy was judged inadequate.

Although 'war clouds' with gathering, the Armée de l'Air insisted upon further comparative trials with a French-engined aircraft. In mid-September 1939, SAMM was able to convince authorities at Villacoublay that re-engining the BP 82-03 with an Hispano-Suiza HS 12Y-31 would suffice. That work was acheived quite quickly but SAMM was finding deliveries of 20 mm guns from Hispano-Suiza very slow. As a back-up scheme, the SAMM A/B 170 triple MAC 34 mount was suggested. No detail design work was undertaken, however, as the military was confident that deliveries would improve.

SAMM was able to complete pre-production SAMM 82 C2 [4] fighters very quickly thanks to major components being delivered from Wolverhampton. But this was not sustainable as the RAF was also chaffing as Defiant deliveries began to fall behind schedule. SAMM was also struggling to complete its turret and gun-mount work for the French military. When the collapse came in June 1940, not a single production model SAMM 82 C2 had been completed.

However, Armée de l'Air blooded its pre-production 'Defiants' over the Sedan. These AdA BP 82 C2s had a modest advantage over their RAF equivalents - a moteur-mitrailleuse firing forward through the 'hollow' propeller hub. It didn't help. A few unserviceable BP 82s were abandoned to the rapidly-advancing Wehrmacht but most were shot down by Luftwaffe fighters. The 'chasse à tourelle' concept had proven a failure.
 
(Bottom) SAMM BP 82 C2 of an unknown units as captured by German ground troops in northern France. Retreating Armée de l'Air fitters have ensured that this aircraft would never fly again. Note the pre-production standard pivoting perspex hood covering the rear gunner's position.

_____________________________

[1] Completion of the third prototype was speeded through the reuse of components from the first Defiant prototype, K8310. This included its somewhat aenemic 1,030 hp Rolls-Royce Merlin I engine,  the original rear fuselage fairings, and other, minor parts.

[2] Since this release occurred before the third prototype Defiant was complete, the serial K8330 was then transferred to a Hawker Audax army co-operation aircraft under construction by Avro.

[3] At Wolverhampton, BP 82-03 was known as the Boulton-Paul P.82F (or, more often, simple as the 'French Job').

[4] That 'C2' was an AdA role designator (for Chasse-Biplace or 2-seat fighter) but note that 'BP' (for Boulton-Paul) was also dropped from the French service designation.
_____________________________
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1676 on: November 19, 2017, 01:01:12 PM »
 :smiley: :smiley:
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1677 on: December 01, 2017, 08:24:01 AM »
Another stab at a 'bubble-top' Wildcat ...

'Foxtrot Mike Trey' - the Eastern Aircraft FM-3

Having been assigned production of the Grumman Wildcat, General Motor's Eastern Aircraft Division set about tweaking that fighter's design to keep it current. An early suggestion was to fit the Eastern-built FM-1 with an all-around vision canopy based on that of the Grumman XF5F-1 Skyrocket. However, the priority was in better suiting the Wildcat for use from short-decked escort carriers. That led to the lighted, Wright R-1820-56 Cyclone-powered Eastern FM-2.

The 'still-born' Eastern XF2M Photo-Recon Wildcat

Eastern design staffers were also working on a faster derivative for use as a photo-reconnaissance type from 'full-sized' aircraft carriers. This aircraft would be powered by the Pratt & Whitney R-2000-2F twin-row radial. Its wings would be 'wet' - ie, full of fuel tanks and non-folding. To give the pilot of this unarmed aircraft maximum visibility, the all-around vision canopy concept was revived. For the latter, Grumman passed on details of the canopy being designed for the new XF8F-1 Bearcat fighter.

Eastern obtained an R-2000 from Pratt & Whitney and a prototype installation was begun. This airframe also had its dorsal 'spine' frames cut down for a 'bubble-top' canopy. Construction of the XF2M prototype was quickly halted, however, when the US Navy decided it had no interest in further development of the Wildcat as a photo-recon aircraft.

[Top] The semi-finished Eastern XF2M conversion to P&W R-2000-1 powerplant [1]

'SuperCat' -  the Eastern XFM-3 Escort Carrier Fighter

Eastern persisted with its 'bubble-top' Wildcat, but now as a straightforward development of the FM-2. A semi-completed FM-2 airframe (BuAer 56684) was selected for conversion to the Bearcat-based all-around vision canopy ... thereby becoming the prototype for the FM-3 series. First flown by BA 'Bud' Gillies [2] on 28 May 1944, the XFM-3 was quickly passed on to the Naval Air Testing Center at NAS Patuxent River for US Navy trials.

NATC was impressed with the advantages of the XFM-3 and the US Navy followed its recommendation to substitute the 'bubble-topped' model in all outstanding contracts for the FM-2. [3] Beginning with BuAer 57041, the FM-2 was eclipsed on Eastern's Linden, NJ production line by FM-3 'SuperCats'.

[Bottom] Prototype Eastern XFM-3 at NATC Pax River. Note that Eastern has incorrectly applied the 'star-and-bars' without their Insignia Blue background. Such was the urgency of the FM-3 program that the prototype went through its entire service with national markings applied directly over the fighter's midnight blue finish (ANA 623 Glossy Sea Blue).

______________________________


[1] The XF2M-1 fuselage was later fitted with a Cyclone engine and folding fighter wings before being delivered to the US Navy to satisfy part of the FM-3A contract.

[2] 'Bud' Gillies was a Grumman employee but, by a Bureau of Aeronautics' recommendation, the test pilot was sub-contracted to General Motors until production of the Eastern FM-3 was fully established.

[3] One criticism was for the relocated emergency life raft - which was relocated from the fuselage spine to just behind the pilot's seat. This necessitated the jettisoning of the sliding canopy when ditching. If the canopy jettison operation failed, extricating the raft was awkward in the extreme.
____________________________
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Offline Tophe

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1678 on: December 01, 2017, 11:43:26 AM »
Nice SuperCat, enriching the family without waiting for the BearCat... :-*

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1679 on: December 02, 2017, 04:02:51 AM »
 :smiley:
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1680 on: December 03, 2017, 06:34:07 AM »

Other than its bubble canopy, the Eastern FM-3 was all but identical to the 'ridge-back' FM-2 Wildcat. [1] The FM-3 retained its predecessor's four-gun armament and 1,350 hp Wright R-1820-62 Cyclone engine. The FM-3 entered active service with Composite Squadron 93 alongside Eastern-built TBF-1C Avenger torpedo-bombers. In March 1945, VC-93's FM-3s replaced the FM-2-equipped VC-90 aboard USS Steamer Bay (CVE-87) a Casablanca class escort carrier. [2]

[Top] Eastern FM-3 flown by Lt(jg) JF Tuttle of VC-93, USS Steamer Bay, late April 1945

The XFM-4 demonstrated a potential engine alternative for Eastern's Wildcat series. In place of the Wright Cyclone, the FM-4 was to be powered by Pratt & Whitney's R-1860 Super Hornet. In its R-1860-20W form, this engine was expected to produce just 1,500 hp for take-off - a substantial increase over the FM-3's Wright Cyclone. A slight weight increase resulted from the XFM-4's large spinner, 4-bladed Aeroproducts propeller, and fan-cooling. [3]

The closely-cowled and fan-cooled engine proved the XFM-4's Achilles heel. The R-1860-20W never did produce its promised power output but that was a minor consideration compared to the constant over-heating suffered by the Super Hornet. At this point in the war, Pratt & Whitney did not have the resources to perfect the R-1860. Instead, the Super Hornet project was abandoned and the anticipated FM-4 series along with it.

[Bottom] Super Hornet-powered XFM-4 prototype at Eastern Aircraft's Linden, NJ airfield

______________________________

[1] The Wildcat name stuck. The US Navy rejected Eastern's proposed SuperCat for the FM-3 as readily as they had rejected the name Mongoose for the FM-2.

[2] Prior to embarking CV-90, CVE-87 acted as a Carrier Transport Squadron, delivering replacement aircraft for the Third Fleet until mid-November 1944.

[3] The cooling fan arrangement was based on that of P&W's R-2800-57(C) engine. The smaller-diameter propeller from Aeroproducts (another GM division) was intended to reduce deck strikes.

______________________________
Froglord: "... amphibious doom descends ... approach the alter and swear your allegiance to the swamp."

Offline john_matthews129

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1681 on: December 03, 2017, 06:55:18 AM »
WOW  :smiley:!

Offline AXOR

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1682 on: December 03, 2017, 07:33:03 AM »
Great job as always  :-*
Alex

Offline Tophe

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1683 on: December 03, 2017, 11:56:11 AM »
The FM-4 with its aerodynamic spinner is very beautiful, thanks! (I imagine a radial engined derivative from it, even better aerodynamically...).

Offline dy031101

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1684 on: December 04, 2017, 02:51:31 PM »
The bubble-canopy Wildcats are great!  :smiley:
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline finsrin

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1685 on: December 04, 2017, 06:17:19 PM »
The bubble-canopy Wildcats are great!  :smiley:

Totally are dude - wow -  :smiley:

Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1686 on: December 05, 2017, 08:18:16 AM »
Thanks folks! More to come ...  ;)
Froglord: "... amphibious doom descends ... approach the alter and swear your allegiance to the swamp."

Offline Tophe

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1687 on: December 05, 2017, 12:29:51 PM »
More to come ...  ;)
You are teasing... More is possible but "better" seems impossible, doesn't it? ;)

Offline john_matthews129

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1688 on: December 05, 2017, 02:04:15 PM »
Really enjoying that Wildcat and I do so admire your work.  Looking forward to the next one.

Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1689 on: December 06, 2017, 06:04:45 AM »
Thanks folks. Here comes some ugly ones  ;)

You are teasing... [/quote]

Only because I forgot to bring my travel drive to the computer lab  :-[

________________________________

A Whale of a Fighter - Eastern Aircraft and the Propeller-Turbine

Even the biggest Wildcat fans would not claim that corpulent fighter to be the most aesthetically pleasing example of the aeronautical arts. But, judged on looks alone, two of the designs of the Eastern Aircraft Division hit a new low.

Eastern was asked to flight-test the new General Electric TG-100 turboprop [1] engine intended for the mixed-power Ryan XF2R-2 'Dark Shark' fighter. As a proven airframe, the FM-3 was chosen for the task. The TG-100 was to be attached to the Wildcat's firewall and governed to 1,600 shp.

An early-production FM-3 [2] was selected for conversion to turboprop power. Engine installation was straightforward but governing proved unnecessary - the TG-100, on its best days, only produced 1,500 shp. Even still, it was necessary to add considerably to the tail surfaces to match the now much-lengthened nose. This was accomplished with a long ventral strake and an enlarged tail (as intended for the production FM-4 model) to which was added a huge dorsal fin extension.

The resulting conversion was redesignated XFM-6 [3] but the aircraft's grotesque appearance earned it the sobriquet of 'Whale Shark' at Eastern. The long 'snout' of the XFM-6 combined with the Wildcat's narrow-track undercarriage made taxiing the XFM-6 in any degree of crosswind more than challenging. Nonetheless, the US Navy was satisfied with this test bed and the sole XFM-6 was delivered to Ryan for XF2R 'Dark Shark' development work.

[Top] Eastern XFM-6 'Whale Shark' conversion prior to delivery to Ryan Aeronautics

Before the lessons of the 'Whale Shark' experience were tallied, Eastern's Linden design office staff began work on a new TG-100 powered fighter. Dubbed the 'Turbine-Propeller Escort Fighter', this was a fresh design which incorporated a number of FM-3 components. At the time, the Linden office was cooperating with Bell Aircraft (of which, more later) and that Buffalo firm's expertise in mid-engined arrangements and tricycle undercarriages was drawn upon.

The Bureau of Aeronautics encouraged Eastern to 'flesh out' its design study but thought was given to a prototype construction contract. Other than being turboprop-powered, the 'TPEF' concept followed the general arrangement of Bell's P-39 and P-63 fighters. Initial concerns were that fuel carried for the 'thirsty' TG-100 was inadequate but plans existed for detachable wing tip tanks to increase range. Once the limitations of GE's TG-100 engine were apparent, work on the 'TPEF' was ended.

[Bottom] General appearance of the final 'Turbine-Propeller Escort Fighter' concept. No mockup was ever built of the 'TPEF'.
______________________________

[1] The TG-100 engine was later designated T31 but General Electric could never get its turboprop to deliver the promised power.

[2] FM-3 BuAer 57167 had been returned to Eastern after suffering a major engine fire on the ground at NAS Pensacola (where it had been assigned to Cadet Advanced Flight Training duties).

[3] The XFM-6 was a 'recycled' designation. The original FM-6 proposal was for an unbuilt FM-3A development armed with four 20 mm cannons in place of the standard .50 cal machine guns.
Froglord: "... amphibious doom descends ... approach the alter and swear your allegiance to the swamp."

Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1690 on: December 06, 2017, 06:27:53 AM »
Wildcat Deviations - Eastern Aircraft's Flying Bomb and Rocket Fighter

Better-looking than the Eastern turboprops were two projects using more repurposed Wildcat parts. The first was a remotely-controlled flying bomb Wildcat conversion. These conversions received a pair of intentionally deceptive cover designations ... misrepresenting the conversions as either new fighter types or as glide-bombs. Early versions were the FM-7 (aka LBM-1) based on F3F-4 and FM-1 airframes. Later conversions were based on the FM-2 and redesignated FM-8 (and LBM-2). [1]

The conversion was quite extensive. The rear fuselage was made removable (to accommodate a payload of high-explosives behind the former cockpit) and the dorsal 'spine' frames were removed. The former cockpit area itself housed the radio equipment and batteries displaced by the explosives. The former main undercarriage bag now held an added bag-type fuel tank.

The flying bombs were controlled from accompanying Eastern TBM-1 Avengers. The radio controls, provided by Radioplane, functioned very well. The difficulty was the original operational concept. In effect, the LBMs were to be pilotless 'kamikazes' but the converted Wildcats were just as vulnerable to naval anti-aircraft fire as their Japanese inspiration. In the end, most LBMs (under the 'umbrella' of Guided Missile Unit 90) were expended against land targets during Operation Olympic, the invasion of Kyushu.

[Top] FM-8/LBM-2 flying bomb conversion. The obsolete camouflage scheme sprang from a decision to use up existing stocks of paint on the 'BombCat' conversions.

Japanese kamikaze attacks prompted another Wildcat-based project. In the Spring of 1945, NACA approached Eastern about developing a naval emergency interceptor based on some Wildcat components. The NACA had been working on an experimental rocket-powered aircraft and planners realized that such a powerplant might make for a quick-reaction fighter capable of intercepting kamikaze aircraft. What became the XF5M-1 'KamiCat' was a NACA-led project involving Eastern for component supply and final assembly; Reaction Motors Inc. [2] for the rocket engine; and Vidal Research Corporation for the moulded plywood fuselage.

Vidal was quick in supplying a sample fuselage which Eastern assembled with FM-3 wings and tailplane. A tricycle undercarriage was developed [3] which deployed by gravity (but could not then be retracted). The hold-up was with the powerplant. Reaction Motors' RMI 5000C1 rocket. This 4-chambered motor was intended to produce 5,000 lbf of thrust in three stages (2 x chambers during climb out, 1 x chamber for sustained flight, and the remaining chamber for pursuit of the selected target). RMI encountered difficulties in both the ignition of individual chambers and in providing more than 3,500 lbf of total thrust.

While waiting on a flight-ready motor, the prototype XF5M-1 'KamiCat' was ballasted to simulate the weight of a rocket motor and fuel. Fitted with a tow hook, the XF5M-1 was flown as a glider. [4] The XF5M-1 flew very well as a glider but these flights also revealed fundamental flaws with the 'KamiCat' concept. Assuming that the fighter's first, powered attack was successful, it proved nearly impossible to zoom-climb high enough for a second, unpowered diving attack. Equally difficult was the planned, unpowered recovery aboard a CVE.

The questions raised about the operational viability of the 'KamiCat' became moot when the XF5M-1 was trial-fitted with its rocket motor. On its first, installed ground test, the RMI 5000C1 exploded, completely destroying the prototype - fortunately, without loss of life. No replacement was ordered and the naval rocket interceptor concept was abandoned.

[Bottom] Prototype NACA/Eastern XF5M-1 'KamiCat' interceptor with dummy rocket motor installed.

Meanwhile, in its primary role as a production facility, Eastern Aircraft continued to churn out Wildcats for use from Allied CVEs. In mid-1945, the major production model - the FM-5A - was just being introduced.

______________________________


[1] Although in official records, the FM-8/LBM-2 was usually listed as the 'FM-2K'. Presumably, the earlier model was properly designated 'FM-1K' as well.

[2] Reaction Motors Inc. (RMI) was an Eastern neighbour, being located 30 miles down the road in Pompton Plains, NJ.

[3] The XF5M-1's main gear used some Wildcat undercarriage components but was rather shorter.

[4] A dummy, unmanned prototype had already been successfully test-launched from a shore-based catapult at NAS Pax River.

______________________________
Froglord: "... amphibious doom descends ... approach the alter and swear your allegiance to the swamp."

Offline Tophe

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1691 on: December 06, 2017, 11:53:23 AM »
Your new ones are marvelous :-*
With the unmanned one, will you participate in the Drone/UAV/Unmanned GB? Welcome if you do...

Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1692 on: December 09, 2017, 07:22:22 AM »
Thanks Tophe. Actually, a notion of an entry for the Drone/UAV/Unmanned GB prompted all my current Wildcat silliness. But now, the whole flying bomb conversion convept seems a bit tame. Meanwhile ...

FM-5A Wildcat - Rationalizing 'SuperCat' Production

Outwardly, the FM-3A and FM-5 Wildcats were impossible to distinguish from the base FM-3. The FM-3A featured minor equipment changes and, mid-production, switched to the 1,350 hp R-1820-72W engine with water injection. [1] The FM-5 was to be the ultimate 'SuperCat' but things did not go as planned.

The FM-5 was to have a higher-powered water-injected engine - the 1,425 hp R-1820-74W. However, the Bureau of Aeronautics chose to redirect all Cyclone '-74W engines to Ryan for FR-2 Fireball mixed-power fighters. As a result, the FM-5s ordered were all delivered as R-1820-72W-powered FM-5As. The new designation was largely unwarranted as these fighters would be all but indistinguishable from late-production FM-3As.

[Top] Eastern FM-5A Wildcat flown by Ens RA Collier of VC-94, USS Shamrock Bay, August 1945. [2]

Eastern Aircraft had been assigned the task of providing a night-fighter derivative of the FM-5A capable of protecting CVEs and accompanying ships of their Task Forces during Operation Coronet. [3] To that end, a single FM-3A airframe was quickly rebuilt as the XFM-5N 'NightCat' prototype. As the XFM-5N, this FM-3A fuselage was fitted with non-folding wings intended for an FM-5P photo-recon conversion.

It was planned for the production FM-5N to feature a completely new style of wing-folding. In place of the patented, rear-folding wings of previous FM-series fighters, the new wings would fold inward from roughly half-span. This would allow for a radar pod being mounted on the starboard wing tip with an aerodynamically-matching fuel drop tank on the port wing tip. [4] These were wing tip fittings were tested on the non-folding wings of the XFM-5N (fold lines being indicated with white paint).

______________________________

[1] For reasons known only to itself, the Bureau of Aeronautics chose to apply a new sub-type designation to the FM-3A when minor equipment changes were made. However, no designation change was made when a new, water-injected engine model was adopted.

[2] Ensign Richard Collier scored two confirmed kills and three damaged before being shot down in late November 1945. Hit by Japanese AA fire while strafing the Sasebo Naval Air Station on Kyushu, Collier's FM-5A came down in Sasebo Ko and quickly sank in that inner harbour. Ens Collier's body was not recovered until after Japan surrendered.

[3] Operation Coronet was the second stage of Operation Downfall, the Allied invasion of Japan. During stage one - Operation Olympic - it became clear that radar-carrying F6F-5N Hellcats from 'full-sized' carriers were quite capable of defending entire TFs from night attacks.
______________________________
Froglord: "... amphibious doom descends ... approach the alter and swear your allegiance to the swamp."

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1693 on: December 09, 2017, 07:25:47 AM »
Need to possibly put the Brewster Buffalo through the same development path... ;)
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline john_matthews129

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1694 on: December 10, 2017, 04:20:09 PM »
I really liked the turboprop whaleshark.  Looks like it would need to sit a bit nose high though, with the gear a bit shorter, perhaps.  Where would the arresting hook be located?  That one looks like contra-rotating props would be right at home up front.

Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1695 on: December 13, 2017, 08:20:12 AM »
Thanks Folks!

Tophe: I thought the unmanned Wildcat was a bit too 'vanilla' for the GB. But now GTX has me thinking  >:D

John: Cheers. You're probably quite right about that nose gear. I had thought about a jump strut (with an attachment for catapult strop) ... but I wasn't sure how far back jump struts for carrier aircraft go. As for arresting gear, I'd imagined the hook be attached to the same fuselage frame as the forward engine mount. So, just behind the main undercarriage ... an alien idea for Grumman but not so much for Eastern  ;)
Froglord: "... amphibious doom descends ... approach the alter and swear your allegiance to the swamp."

Offline finsrin

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1696 on: December 13, 2017, 10:52:20 AM »
Unmanned Wildcat can be USN46 "cruise missile".  Even used in Korea.

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1697 on: December 14, 2017, 02:03:49 AM »
Unmanned Wildcat can be USN46 "cruise missile".  Even used in Korea.

Or even just for target practice in a bright colour scheme.
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1698 on: December 14, 2017, 05:54:13 AM »
Unmanned Wildcat can be USN46 "cruise missile".  Even used in Korea.
Could be good testbeds for systems intended for operational Loon and Regulus cruise missiles.  It would be interesting to see one launched from a surfaced submarine using RATO bottles.  It could not be as spectacular as the first Loon launch from a surfaced submarine when the rocket boosters exploded on ignition and set off the missile's fuel.

Offline Tophe

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1699 on: December 14, 2017, 01:50:21 PM »
It is funny how we discover lots of "good reasons" when we look for them. ;)
(Outside our dreams, this is more difficult, to justify expenses to the taxpayers... :icon_crap: )