Author Topic: Douglas A-4 Skyhawk Ideas and Inspiration  (Read 136814 times)

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Douglas A-4 Skyhawk Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #275 on: March 14, 2018, 04:12:57 AM »
Not sure if these have been posted already:


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Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: Douglas A-4 Skyhawk Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #276 on: December 04, 2018, 04:43:55 AM »
Via Facebook.

Douglas CA.4E/CA.4F Skyhawk for RCAF. & RCN ?... Flying Review International, March 1965

Work in progress ::

I am giving up listing them. They all end up on the shelf of procrastination anyways.

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Offline Kerick

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Re: Douglas A-4 Skyhawk Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #277 on: December 04, 2018, 09:33:27 AM »
That would have been fun.
Would make a good whiff

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Re: Douglas A-4 Skyhawk Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #278 on: December 05, 2018, 02:20:15 AM »







Quote
Canadair CA-4L Skyhawk by Bob Aikens

The Douglas A-4 Skyhawk was a subsonic, carrier-capable attack aircraft developed for the US Navy and Marine Corps. First flown June 22, 1954, the Skyhawk has proved itself as a very long lasting design, and though they have long since been retired by the US, some of the 2,960 airframes that were built continue to serve to this day, both with government forces (such as Brazil, flying off the carrier São Paulo) and with private companies (such as the Montreal, Canada based Discovery Air Defense Services and the Florida based Draken International).

The Skyhawk was powered by a variety of engines during it's career, with the most powerful being the Pratt & Whitney J52-P-408a, which generated 11,200 ft lbs of thrust, giving a tp speed in the range of 1,150 km/h. Armament was extremely varied, including 2x 20mm Colt Mk 12 cannons in the wing roots (changed to 2x 30mm DEFA cannons in some Israeli aircraft) and 5 hardpoints (4 under-wing and 1 fuselage) with a payload of up to 9,900 lbs. These hardpoints could be occupied by 4x LAU-10 rocket pods (each with 4x Mk.32 Zuni rockets), 4x AIM-9 Sidewinder air-to-air missiles, 2x AGM-12 Bullpup, 2x AGM-45 Shrike, 2x AGM-62 Walleye, 2x AGM-65 Maverick air-to-ground missiles, 6x Rockeye Cluster Bomb Units, any number of Mark 80 unguided bombs, the B43, B57, B61 tactical nuclear bombs, or up to 3x 1,400 L drop tanks.

The model is a Monogram 1/48 scale A-4E Skyhawk built straight from the box, finished in the standard two-tone grey camouflage worn by RCAF CF-188 Hornets (complete with fake cockpit painted on the underside of the fuselage) in order to represent a fictional RCAF Skyhawk.
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Douglas A-4 Skyhawk Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #279 on: December 05, 2018, 02:22:03 AM »
There is also this classic by AeroplaneDriver back in 2007:




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Offline Kerick

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Re: Douglas A-4 Skyhawk Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #280 on: December 05, 2018, 09:35:02 PM »
Both patterns suit the scooter well

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Douglas A-4 Skyhawk Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #281 on: December 06, 2018, 11:42:10 AM »
Anti-shiiping Skyhawk:



RAF/FAA/RAAF variant with a Sea Eagle missile instead of a Harpoon?

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Re: Douglas A-4 Skyhawk Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #282 on: December 07, 2018, 02:05:05 AM »
Maybe.  Or maybe as is but in RAN FAA scheme as a subtle whiff to confound people given the RAN FAA used both the A-4 and the AGM-84...but just not together. ;)
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Douglas A-4 Skyhawk Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #283 on: December 07, 2018, 07:53:19 AM »
Maybe.  Or maybe as is but in RAN FAA scheme as a subtle whiff to confound people given the RAN FAA used both the A-4 and the AGM-84...but just not together. ;)
*wicked chuckle* I like the way you think.  Say in a low-viz RAN FAA scheme?

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Re: Douglas A-4 Skyhawk Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #284 on: December 08, 2018, 03:35:52 AM »
Given the AGM-84s entered service not long before the A-4Gs were passed to New Zealand, I could see two whiff options:

  • Do one up in standard scheme for 1983/84:


    And say that it was a trial fit as part of a study into whether it was worth keeping the A-4s; or
  • Do them up in this scheme or another (such as that below) and say that the RAN FAA decided to keep them in service.  Mind you, if this happened, I would ultimately decide to give them an upgrade ala Project Kaha style that the Kiwis did.  Maybe even replace the J52s with dry F404s like the Singaporeans did...

« Last Edit: December 08, 2018, 03:38:12 AM by GTX_Admin »
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Douglas A-4 Skyhawk Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #285 on: December 08, 2018, 04:30:23 AM »
Perhaps the "Powers That Be" might even be persuaded to acquire a replacement carrier.   

Offline Alvis 3.1

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Re: Douglas A-4 Skyhawk Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #286 on: December 09, 2018, 12:33:16 PM »
I always felt the A-4 was perfectly suited and perfectly times as a "Forces Unification Aircraft". Capable of operating from a carrier by the Navy, from land by the Air Force, and to support the Army in the field.

It also would then be known as the Eff You, Eh? by serving members.
:D

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Douglas A-4 Skyhawk Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #287 on: December 09, 2018, 10:58:56 PM »
Perhaps the "Powers That Be" might even be persuaded to acquire a replacement carrier.   


I have been toying with the idea for a while that possibly the damage to HMAS Melbourne from either the Voyager or Frank E Evens collisions could have been more serious or difficult to repair, requiring her replacement in the mid to late 60s for the first accident, or the early 70s for the second.  Thinking some sort of structural damage, say affecting shaft or maybe catapult  alignment, rather than a catastrophic loss with resulting injuries and fatalities.

Possibility one, the RAN acquires Centaur, Hermes, or Victorious in a hot transfer from the RN, aligning with the British draw down on their carrier force in the late 60s.  Possibility two, the US provides an Essex CVS or even CVA to make good the loss, maybe even funding the transfer in recognition of the value of the RAN operating a CVS and in compensation.  The required extra manning was obtained by decommissioning the fast troop transport HMAS Sydney and replacing her (and four army operated LSM) with four modified Round Table Class Landing Craft Logistics.

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Re: Douglas A-4 Skyhawk Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #288 on: December 10, 2018, 02:17:52 AM »
Interesting idea.  Having the need for a replacement much earlier probably makes it more likely than something in the early/mid-80s.  I like the idea of either a British or American design as you have mentioned.  If a full competition was run, a Clemenceau-class might also be an option. Likewise, if one was to use the Voyager incident as the trigger, this might also open up the field to a CVA-01 design - maybe the ship being kept alive by sharing the economics with Australia with 1 -2 ships entering RN service and 1 entering RAN service.

That all said, my preference would have been an Essex class which was indeed offered/considered a number of times around this time period.
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Offline Volkodav

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Re: Douglas A-4 Skyhawk Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #289 on: December 10, 2018, 09:29:16 PM »
Interesting idea.  Having the need for a replacement much earlier probably makes it more likely than something in the early/mid-80s.  I like the idea of either a British or American design as you have mentioned.  If a full competition was run, a Clemenceau-class might also be an option. Likewise, if one was to use the Voyager incident as the trigger, this might also open up the field to a CVA-01 design - maybe the ship being kept alive by sharing the economics with Australia with 1 -2 ships entering RN service and 1 entering RAN service.

That all said, my preference would have been an Essex class which was indeed offered/considered a number of times around this time period.


CVA-01 was considered alongside an upgraded, or even a new build, Essex and a modernised Centaur, the upgraded Essex being the preferred option.  My thinking is the severe damage would make a hot transfer of an existing ship the only real option.  The key advantage is this would get the carrier replacement out of the early 80s financial crunch, which was probably the worst recession we had since the Great Depression, and into the boom times of the late 80s but before the peace dividend.  Depending which ship was acquired a late 90s or early 2000s replacement could have been conceivable.

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Re: Douglas A-4 Skyhawk Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #290 on: December 14, 2018, 03:34:49 AM »
Just an inspiring shot:

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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Douglas A-4 Skyhawk Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #291 on: March 24, 2019, 04:46:46 AM »
Skyhawks fly in packs:

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Offline FAAMAN

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Re: Douglas A-4 Skyhawk Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #292 on: April 05, 2019, 04:40:05 PM »
Just found this thread whilst searching for other "info"

I've read some scandalous and nearly criminal suggestions from "some" who should know better . . . . . . . you know who you are don't cha?  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(  Cruise missle conversions and target drones!! Really??? Foxholes could never hide such infamy from the righteous rath of Scooter admirers (or maintainers  :icon_vader::icon_ninja: :icon_ninja:

A few ideas for WHIFFing the A-4. How about an Argentinian Canberra with A-4B piggyback Mistle combination as a stopgap carrier killer.
A point defense interceptor launched from a ZELL (Zero Length Launch) rail, the A-4 is lighter than an F-104 and can dogfight too, would use ground controlled intercept until the A-4's radar provided terminal guidance to launch.
Twin engined twin seat TA version, broad conformal saddle fuel tank with a suitable radar for long range BARCAP missions (like a small F-4) etc from small conventional carriers  ;) Hmmmmmm, I wonder if I could find a use for this?  :icon_meditation:
There are a couple more WHIFF ideas but 'cause I'm actually building 'em I can't tell yous about them until I get to unveil 'em.  ;)

Also, in regards to Yanks landing on the sacred angle deck you should see this Youtube vid;  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuU6dP_Irh0   
Charles William Darcey Ward, Jr. - Flew the first US Navy A-4B landing on HMAS Melbourne CV-21. On 20 May 1965 a USN Skyhawk, BuNo.144874, demonstrated deck landing qualities by carrying out landings and catapulting from HMAS Melbourne. LCDR Ward was Officer-in-Charge of VA-113 Det Q aboard the USS Bennington. Det (Detachment) A-4's always used Roman numeral side numbers in stead of the normal sort.




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Offline Old Wombat

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Re: Douglas A-4 Skyhawk Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #293 on: April 05, 2019, 08:47:26 PM »
I wonder if I made any of those suggestions? ??? ;)
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Douglas A-4 Skyhawk Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #294 on: April 06, 2019, 03:43:55 AM »
Speaking of twin engines:

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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Douglas A-4 Skyhawk Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #295 on: April 06, 2019, 04:04:50 AM »
And another variation that Giampiero Silvestri was working on years ago - never saw the finished product but this might give someone some ideas:






« Last Edit: April 06, 2019, 04:06:33 AM by GTX_Admin »
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Douglas A-4 Skyhawk Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #296 on: April 06, 2019, 04:07:13 AM »
And something else:

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Offline FAAMAN

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Re: Douglas A-4 Skyhawk Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #297 on: April 06, 2019, 07:15:33 AM »
Yes Wombatus twas you with one of those "suggestions", your infamy has been recorded for later use :icon_ninja:

GTX I saw the twin engined A-4/DC9 hybrid a few posts before, and I'm not sure that'd work as getting a pair of engines powerful and small enough to pod outside the main fuse would be an issue not to mention the severe aft CofG shift it would cause. If mounted further forward it may work but the "T" tail would be a big no no due the wing masking control inputs at low speeds and high angle of attack (like in landing). A big plus for this version would be the huge internal fuel tanks able to be fitted giving a huge range increase not to mention "black box room".

I love the A-4X SAAB Gripen mix, very cool indeed  8) 8)
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Douglas A-4 Skyhawk Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #298 on: April 07, 2019, 04:02:09 AM »
GTX I saw the twin engined A-4/DC9 hybrid a few posts before, and I'm not sure that'd work as getting a pair of engines powerful and small enough to pod outside the main fuse would be an issue not to mention the severe aft CofG shift it would cause.

It might work with something such as a Honeywell/ITEC F124 or Rolls-Royce Turbomeca Adour though getting the right balance of weight, thrust, full consumption etc would make it difficult to argue for.  Only reasons I could see (outside of the "it just looks cool" reason  ;)) would be if one specifically needed two engines for survivability reasons or even as a dedicated two engined trainer or, as you mentioned, one had plans for the leftover internal space for more fuel or other.



Taking some of this, one could potentially have a scenario such as this based around a different A-4AR Fightinghawk:

Argentina had a long history with the A-4 Skyhawk and in fact was the first foreign user of the Skyhawk in 1965.  Over the years the country suffered many challenges in supporting these aircraft ranging from embargoes through to losses during the Falklands War.  These along with a less than stellar national economic situation denied the resources needed to replace the venerable Skyhawk.  That said, the crews still worshipped the Skyhawk for its rugged simplicity and ability to punch above its weight time after time.

In 1989, Carlos Menem was elected President of Argentina and quickly established a pro-United States foreign policy.  Although the economic situation improved, the funds to purchase new combat aircraft remained unavailable.

Eventually in 1994, the United States agreed to a request to purchase 36 former US Marine Corps A-4M Skyhawks in a US$282 million deal that would be carried out by Lockheed Martin and included the privatization of the Fabrica Militar de Aviones (Military Aircraft Factory), which was renamed Lockheed Martin Aircraft Argentina SA afterward.  Fuerza Aérea Argentina technicians chose 32 A-4M and 4 TA-4F airframes from the Aerospace Maintenance and Regeneration Center at Davis-Monthan Air Force Base in Tucson, Arizona to upgrade. Originally it was planned to simply overhaul of the airframe, wiring looms and the Pratt & Whitney J52P-408A engines however once the aircraft arrived in Argentina it was discovered that much more was needed.  Most importantly, not long after acquiring them Argentina like many others around the world were hit by a Pratt&Whitney announcement that the J52/JT8 had a major fatigue flaw requiring its immediate removal from service (P&W frustrated many in that it also decided to not continue production of the engine components thus preventing a simple change out of the affected items).

At first Argentina, like many others looked to copying the Singaporean Air Force and replacing the J52s with non-afterburning General Electric F404 turbofan engines.  However despite numerous requests including high level political delegations, the sale of the F404 to Argentina was denied.  For a long while, it looked like the Skyhawks' days were over.  Then there was a break through.  Argentine engineers in conjunction with their counterparts half a word away in Taiwan (another country that struggled with on-again/off-again US support for arms purchases) came up with an innovative proposal.  The A-4Ms would undergo a major redevelopment utilising many of the items from the Taiwanese AIDC F-CK-1 Ching-kuo.  This included the F124 engine (the AIDC actually using an afterburning version of this designated the F125).  to get the necessary thrust, two F124s were to be used on the A-4.  These would be mounted in external pods on the rear fuselage.  Although somewhat ungainly looking, the resulting installation freed up much internal space in the fuselage allowing an increase of fuel load by 85%.

The resulting A-4AR Fightinghawk as it was soon designated also introduced a new radar (the same GD-53 Golden Dragon multi-mode monopulse pulse-Doppler radar as used in the F-CK-1) along with other new avionics and related from the Taiwanese.  Eventually entering service in August 1998, the Fightinghawk would continue the long Argentine A-4 story.

As a side note, not long after the Fightinghawks entered service, Argentina managed to find more funds and did the obvious, buying a squadron of F-CK-1s to serve alongside the A-4AR with the Fuerza Aérea Argentina.
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Offline Kerick

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Re: Douglas A-4 Skyhawk Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #299 on: April 07, 2019, 06:30:38 AM »
Yes Wombatus twas you with one of those "suggestions", your infamy has been recorded for later use :icon_ninja:

GTX I saw the twin engined A-4/DC9 hybrid a few posts before, and I'm not sure that'd work as getting a pair of engines powerful and small enough to pod outside the main fuse would be an issue not to mention the severe aft CofG shift it would cause. If mounted further forward it may work but the "T" tail would be a big no no due the wing masking control inputs at low speeds and high angle of attack (like in landing). A big plus for this version would be the huge internal fuel tanks able to be fitted giving a huge range increase not to mention "black box room".

I love the A-4X SAAB Gripen mix, very cool indeed  8) 8)

Maybe the CG problem could be helped by adding a plug to the fuselage between the cockpit and the intakes. It may not work improve the looks any.
BTW I’ve always thought of doing the engine pods with an F-86.