AVRO Lancaster, Manchester, Lincoln and Shackleton (and derivatives) Ideas and Inspiration

[jcf]

I assume the Centaurus-powered project drawing above depicts the long-span Manchester IIC. Has anyone ever seen a photo of the built (but unflown)  Manchester IC with Centaurus?

According to 21st Profile Vol.1 No. 5, one airframe was delivered to Bristol but, the
engines were never installed due to the Ministries and RAF having lost all interest
in the Manchester.

[apophenia]

Greg Yup, makes perfect sense that the Sabre was in the running. It weighed slightly less than the Vulture and put out more power. I guess it depends when they were looking at the Sabre. Things weren't looking all that rosy for the Napier in 1938. A pity that Bristol's sleeve value-making approach didn't get pulled in sooner.

Jon Interesting. I got the built-but-not-flown from Green & Swanborough (WW2 Fact File RAF Bombers Part 2). It didn't really make sense though. I know the Centaurus got pushed to the back-burner so Bristol could focus on the Hercules. Still, with the Vulture mess at hand, why would they finish the Centaurus conversion and then not even bother to fly it?

[jcf]

Yeah, you'd think that if the engines had been installed then the aircraft would have been
a useful testbed during Centaurus development. That didn't happen, so I'd go with the not
installed narrative being likely.

[GTX_Admin]

Random idea:  RAF and/or RAAF AVRO Lincolns doing night bombing missions over Korea.

[GTX_Admin]

One I don't recall seeing before - Avro 694 Lincoln Freighter:

[elmayerle]

One I don't recall seeing before - Avro 694 Lincoln Freighter:

Are there Lincoln conversions to go along with a Lancastrian conversion to produce this one?

[GTX_Admin]

Interestingly, in Keith Meggs' new "Australian-built Aircraft and the Industry Volume 2" book it is mentioned that the initial plan was for Australian built Lancasters to be P&W R2800 powered. 

And for a comparison with the Bristol Hercules powered Lancaster B.II:

Hercules VI Power:  1,650 hp (1,230 kW) Length: 53.15 in (1,350 mm) Diameter: 55 in (1,397 mm) Dry weight: 1890lb. (857.3kg)

P&W R2800 Power: 2000+ Length: 81.4 in (2,068 mm) Diameter: 52.8 in (1,342 mm) Dry weight: 2,360 lb (1,073 kg)

[finsrin]

Interesting you post this at this time.   Was at stash yesterday.   Figured can mount Shackleton engines on B-18.   Well powered post war MPA.

[GTX_Admin]

Supposedly the AVRO Manchester was designed to be able to carry two 18 in (457 mm) torpedoes internally.  Has anyone seen a photo with this fit?

More importantly, how about an AVRO Manchester or better yet a Lancaster in Coastal Command garb in a low level torpedo run...

Not a photo but a drawing at least:

[GTX_Admin]

Hmmm, never knew about these ones:  Coastal Command Lancasters with 2 - 4 fixed 20mm cannon in the nose:




See here

[elmayerle]

The saddle tanks that were trialed for Tiger Force Lancasters, would they fit on Lincolns if one wished longer range?

[M.A.D]

Supposedly the AVRO Manchester was designed to be able to carry two 18 in (457 mm) torpedoes internally.  Has anyone seen a photo with this fit?

More importantly, how about an AVRO Manchester or better yet a Lancaster in Coastal Command garb in a low level torpedo run...

Not a photo but a drawing at least:

That is a cool and interesting find GTX

MAD

[jcf]

Hmmm, never knew about these ones:  Coastal Command Lancasters with 2 - 4 fixed 20mm cannon in the nose:




See here

Bulged bombay Lancs with six 20mm or 3 40mm mounted in the fwd section.

[ysi_maniac]

Passenger Shackleton (two options)

[kitnut617]

Hmmm, never knew about these ones:  Coastal Command Lancasters with 2 - 4 fixed 20mm cannon in the nose:




See here

Neither had I --- but you'd think out of the thousands of photos of real Lancasters there would be a least one of it --- or even mention in all the different reference books on the Lancaster.

[Gingie]

Bulged bombay Lancs with six 20mm or 3 40mm mounted in the fwd section.

Ohhhh yesssss

[GTX_Admin]

Random photo:

[The Big Gimper]

Fellow photo reconnaissance experts!

I am looking any photos of the F49 Camera installation in the Avro Lancaster PR1. I suspect it was installed aft of the bomb bay as photos show the bomb bay doors open on the ground.

Even before the war ended some of the RAF’s strategic photo-reconnaissance aircraft began survey operations on behalf of the Colonial Office. Six Lancaster bombers were converted into Lancaster PR1 photo-reconnaissance aircraft by having their gun turrets removed and fared over. The converted aircraft were fitted with the F49 camera, designed for air survey work of fine definition. The large F49 camera had a 20-inch lens and when loaded with film weighed almost 87 pounds. The camera could be operated electrically or manually and the magazine held 200 exposures of 9 inch by 9 inch film.
Source: https://spyflight.co.uk/aircraft/#Avro

I also saw references to F17 and F24 cameras being carried.

Note the BBMF Lancaster PA474 was at one time a PR1.

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Fellow photo reconnaissance experts!

I am looking any photos of the F49 Camera installation in the Avro Lancaster PR1. I suspect it was installed aft of the bomb bay as photos show the bomb bay doors open on the ground.

Even before the war ended some of the RAF’s strategic photo-reconnaissance aircraft began survey operations on behalf of the Colonial Office. Six Lancaster bombers were converted into Lancaster PR1 photo-reconnaissance aircraft by having their gun turrets removed and fared over. The converted aircraft were fitted with the F49 camera, designed for air survey work of fine definition. The large F49 camera had a 20-inch lens and when loaded with film weighed almost 87 pounds. The camera could be operated electrically or manually and the magazine held 200 exposures of 9 inch by 9 inch film.
Source: https://spyflight.co.uk/aircraft/#Avro

I also saw references to F17 and F24 cameras being carried.

Note the BBMF Lancaster PA474 was at one time a PR1.

A camera that large would be best located somewhere near the aircraft center of gravity if it was to be used for mapping and survey purposes. 

That being said, what about the area where the lower gun turret had been located?  That particular frame location was in many Lancasters just covered over if I am not mistaken.  The path of least resistance as well since there was a 'hole' there by design that was then covered over it makes sense that this would become the location for the camera portal as it would afford the lens a clear field of view without obstructions. 

[kitnut617]

I think Jeff got it right Carl, this photo below would suggest just that.

Found on this web site

https://www.key.aero/article/shooting-dark-continent

[GTX_Admin]

I presume it would have been similar to that used here:  http://jproc.ca/rrp/rrp3/lanc_equipment_details_other_variants.html

[The Big Gimper]

Thank you everyone.

And a special shoutout to Greg who schools the Canadian on Canadian websites. 

[GTX_Admin]

My pleasure...

[apophenia]

I presume it would have been similar to that used here:  http://jproc.ca/rrp/rrp3/lanc_equipment_details_other_variants.html

Jerry Proc is good guy. In past exchanges, he's been very generous with both his time and his expertise 

[GTX_Admin]

What was really interesting was his follow up suggestion, that after 100 two stage Merlin Lancasters were built, production should switch to a higher powered version using a license manufactured version of the Pratt & Whitney R-2800 Double Wasp.  Now just imagine that a late war RAAF Lancaster III with three or four twin .50" cal turrets and four massive Double Wasp radials, that would be an interesting wiff build.

I have read a bit on this as well.  The plan was definitely for the DAP Lancasters/Lincolns to be R-2800 powered.  It is very tempting to model one.

Interestingly, there were also pushes from the USAAF for Australia to produce the P-47 using the same engine. A RAAF P-47 in P-51 scheme would also be interesting.