Beyond The Sprues
Modelling => Ideas & Inspiration => Aero-space => Topic started by: Daryl J. on September 09, 2013, 07:55:29 AM
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Some of us were having a discussion this past weekend about the F-22 vs. F-15C's armed with the AIM-9x. Some real world combat scenarios were talked about showing the relative strengths and (surprising) weaknesses of each platform.
While this is the Wiffverse, the question is as follows and presumes a near-real scenario: How old of an aircraft could hoist an AIM-9L,M, or X into the air successfully? F-5E? Mirage III? Alpha Jet? Draken? A-4 Skyhawk? F-8 Crusader even?
Obviously I'm not looking to sling a Sidewinder under an A-26 or Skyraider in Vietnam, but rather on something in production say in the 1965-1980 range.
For once, Wikipedia and the web haven't provided info I'm looking for.
TIA,
Daryl J.
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Putting one under a SPAD's wing would be coming full-circle though! ;)
http://i.imgur.com/TdO3grF.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/TdO3grF.jpg)
I don't think planes that old can carry an AIM-9X though, I don't have the specifics but there seems to be more in the interface between aircraft and missile. Maybe if it had the right adapter rail...
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Interesting proposition: use of sidewinder as an anti-surface platform weapon:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4f/AIM-9L_hits_tank_at_China_Lake_1947.jpeg)
BTW, the anti surface version of the sidewinder was/is the AGM-87 Focus
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The Chaparral and similar were used as SAM variants of the AIM-9 for land based applications. Does anyone know if there was a similar SAM version for ship board use? Perhaps even the same exact system:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/cf/Chaparral_Mim-72.jpg)
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Here at BTS they can carry them !
mental flash: T56 powered F7F with wing tip mounts
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Interesting proposition: use of sidewinder as an anti-surface platform weapon:
BTW, the anti surface version of the sidewinder was/is the AGM-87 Focus
IIRC, the prototypes of that used surplus AIM-9C radar-guided Sidewinder missile frames, as did the AGM-122 Sidearm.
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The Chaparral and similar were used as SAM variants of the AIM-9 for land based applications. Does anyone know if there was a similar SAM version for ship board use? Perhaps even the same exact system:
Yes, the RIM-72C Sea Chaparral! Some USN DD-692/710s temporarily carried a quad launcher on their DASH landing pads while off Vietnam. When the war ended they were removed. Photos are non-existent on the web. I have a couple in a book if you're in need.
The Taiwanese version of Lafayette Class frigates (Kang Dings) have (had maybe?) a quad mount in front of the bridge.
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/row/rocn/kang-ding.htm (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/row/rocn/kang-ding.htm) The specs erroneously state its a Croatale but that's only on the French FFs.
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I never finished it but I made a 1/48 'winder in Rafael Python layout. two sets of front fins. Looked pretty snazzy in mock up ;)
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How about an A-4 on CAP or BARCAP with dual AIM-9 launchers on the outboard wing stores pylons? Imagine the configuration seen on the F-4 Phantom II when it was loaded with the AIM-4 Falcon as the means to accommodate two missiles on each pylon. The inboard wing stores would be fuel as would the center line stores station for the long loiter times on station.
Interesting proposition: use of sidewinder as an anti-surface platform weapon:
([url]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4f/AIM-9L_hits_tank_at_China_Lake_1947.jpeg[/url])
BTW, the anti surface version of the sidewinder was/is the AGM-87 Focus
Nothing really new with that concept. The FIM-43 Redeye Man-Portable Air Defense (MANPAD)SAM system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIM-43_Redeye) could be used in a surface attack role in an emergency as well as the FIM-92 Stinger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIM-92_Stinger). So using a Sidewinder as an air to surface weapon is not that far fetched. The F-102 Delta Dagger flew armed reconnaissance missions at night during the Vietnam conflict for the purpose of attacking enemy campfires with the AIM-4 Falcon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIM-4_Falcon) and apparently had some success with the stationary camp fire targets.
***edit to add Wiki links for Redeye, Stinger, and Falcon missiles--jjf
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The kit of a Westland built AH-64 I have in the stash, has AIM-9 looking missiles on it but they're not called AIM-9's and I don't remember them being called an AGM-87 either. It is a air-to-ground missile though ---
EDIT: just did a search, an AGM-122 Sidearm is what it's called
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Seen pictures of OV-10 with Sidewinders. Appears to work in that case.
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The kit of a Westland built AH-64 I have in the stash, has AIM-9 looking missiles on it but they're not called AIM-9's and I don't remember them being called an AGM-87 either. It is a air-to-ground missile though ---
EDIT: just did a search, an AGM-122 Sidearm is what it's called
The Italeri 1:48th scale AH-1 Sea Cobra comes with a pair of crude looking AIM-9L model Sidewinders but these could be changed out for some AIM-9C models Sidewinders (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIM-9_Sidewinder) that were in real life converted to the AGM-122 Sidearm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGM-122_Sidearm). Have yet to encounter any Sidewinder/Sidearm shapes in any of my 1:48th scale AH-64 Apache kits but they do include the FIM-92/MIM-92 Stinger.
***edit to add Wikipedia links--jjf
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Reading up on the AGM-122, it seems that the USMC wanted something for anti-radiation to arm their A-4's, AV-8's and Cobras and this is what they got.
The kit I have of the AH-64 is actually a 1/72 Mirage WAH-64D
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The Chaparral and similar were used as SAM variants of the AIM-9 for land based applications. Does anyone know if there was a similar SAM version for ship board use? Perhaps even the same exact system:
Yes, the RIM-72C Sea Chaparral! Some USN DD-692/710s temporarily carried a quad launcher on their DASH landing pads while off Vietnam. When the war ended they were removed. Photos are non-existent on the web. I have a couple in a book if you're in need.
The Taiwanese version of Lafayette Class frigates (Kang Dings) have (had maybe?) a quad mount in front of the bridge.
[url]http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/row/rocn/kang-ding.htm[/url] ([url]http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/row/rocn/kang-ding.htm[/url]) The specs erroneously state its a Croatale but that's only on the French FFs.
Some of their Yang Class Destroyers (Gearings) mounted Sea Chaparral launchers, before they were all upgraded under the Wu Chin III program that added the SM-1 in box launchers.
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Why the hell not? I'm planning to rack a buttload onto a CH-53E... :D
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AIM9X is supposedly being studied (with funding) for US Army use...possibly for this:
http://bcove.me/iignjfhh (http://bcove.me/iignjfhh)
(http://www.defense.gouv.fr/var/dicod/storage/images/base-de-medias/images/ema/sitta/ausa-2010/boeing-avenger/942966-1-fre-FR/boeing-avenger.jpg)
(http://www.boeing.com/Features/2011/02/img/bds_versatile_hillman_02_07_11.jpg)
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Looks like Boeing has been using Frank3K's work for inspiration :)
HMMWV with Quad (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=240.0)
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I have all but missed this thread until today, when I have a question about Sea Chaparral system......
Some of their Yang Class Destroyers (Gearings) mounted Sea Chaparral launchers, before they were all upgraded under the Wu Chin III program that added the SM-1 in box launchers.
The vast majority of Taiwanese Gearing, Allen M. Sumners, and Fletcher classes destroyers, some former-Crosley and Rudderow classes destroyer escorts, and a handful of auxiliary ships received the Sea Chaparral system. The Gearing class DDs modernised under Wu Chin III programme were upgraded straight from stock FRAM I configuration.
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How much of an improvement could be made if the AIM-9X is used as the projectile to the Sea Chaparral system?
I'm under the impression that the Sea Chaparral only receives verbal directions from its ship's radar operators, but the actual aiming and targeting is still done manually, without being slaved to the ship radar (ROCN auxiliary ships that carried Sea Chaparral do not even have air search radar).
Under this scenario, would the better seeker of the AIM-9X bring noticeably superior efficiency to the Sea Chaparral system?