F-5 Freedom Fighter, Tiger, F-20 Tigershark, X-29 concepts and proposals ...

[Volkodav]

Probably more a case of profiling the area ruling than filling it in to match the new wing plan.  A delta would require less waisting and a more linier narrowing.

[PR19_Kit]

A delta would need the waisted portion to be further aft, the idea of area ruling being that the overall frontal area at any point along the airframe should be constant, or close to it anyway. Thus the bumps either side of the exhaust on an F-102 etc.

[Daryl J.]

Is the wing of the F-20 too low to the ground to be put into the role of a F/A-18L-like aircraft?

[Weaver]

A delta would need the waisted portion to be further aft, the idea of area ruling being that the overall frontal area at any point along the airframe should be constant, or close to it anyway. Thus the bumps either side of the exhaust on an F-102 etc.

A tailless delta doesn't really need a "waisted" protion as such because the cross-section increases gradually anyway due to the high degree sweep on the leading edge. If you look at tailess deltas in planform, they tend to have smoothly tapering fuselages rather than waisted ones. If anything, a tailless delta needs a bulge right at the back, F-102 style, but a combination of a swept-forwards trailing edge and a highly swept fin tends to smooth things out well enough.

[GTX_Admin]

Is the wing of the F-20 too low to the ground to be put into the role of a F/A-18L-like aircraft?

what do you mean by "the role of a F/A-18L-like aircraft"?

[Daryl J.]

Ground attack, light version

[elmayerle]

Complete whiif idea: fit a tailless delta wing and then fill out the area-rule waisting in the fuselage.

Something like this?



(taken from a thread on Secret Projects about alternatives to the ATF program, in this case an upgraded F-20 design)

That doesn't look that far off the F-5G(F-20)/Lavi hybrid that Northrop studied for a collaborative effort with IAI.  For whatever reason, IAI decided against it.

[kitnut617]

interesting conformal tank/missle launcher  ---- I've been playing with something like that on my Super Arrow --- using AIM-54's

[Daryl J.]

Norwegian F-20 loadout:
AIM-132. Wingtip
Penguin
Fuel
Penguin on center or fuel.
Repeat other side.

[elmayerle]

Norwegian F-20 loadout:
AIM-132. Wingtip
Penguin
Fuel
Penguin on center or fuel.
Repeat other side.

I'm thinking of something like that, but with a Harpoon on the centerline and, possibly IRIS-T's on the wingtips since Norway is part of that program.  Know where I can get some suitable 1/144 Norwegian decals?  I've got all the rest of the pieces.

[Daryl J.]

I'm thinking of something like that, but with a Harpoon on the centerline and, possibly IRIS-T's on the wingtips since Norway is part of that program. 

Thanks!


In thinking of the up and coming GB, I just ordered in the shark nosed F-5F as a potential candidate for a build.    It would be a NATO flown ECM aircraft keeping in the spirit of the EF-18. 

It will be interesting to see if the small Monogram recce nose can be grafted onto Kinetic's F-5B too.  There isn't much in front of the nose gear it seems. 

[elmayerle]

That would be a challenge.  I've always thought of that recce nose on a F-5F with the cameras replaced by the guts of a SNIPER pod or equivalent to make an OF-5F "Fast FAC".

[Daryl J.]

In all likelihood I'll wind up making a camera can out of the midline tank.   That would allow a duckbill nose similar to the later E/F and some LERX changes.

As fun as it would be to do, the "big wing" F-5B drawing on page 5, post #72 may have to wait for a later build.

And the OF-5F....it needs built. :)  Presumably, it would have to ditch the nose guns yes?

[elmayerle]

Yeah, but you could do like the RF-5E and have cooling scoops there for the avionics and optronics.

[Volkodav]

Researching the F-20 and what do I find, a whole stack of profiles by Sentinel Chicken  :)
http://airlinebuzz.com/forums/showthread.php?61005-FLIGHTS-OF-FANTASY-What-if-the-F-20-Tigershark-entered-service/page2&s=e443263afdaea3dc14c22c6352516dcf

Love the RNZAF ones.

Been pushing my little brain to do some wiff thinking and keep coming back to a cheaper RAAF.  Instead of Mirage, Hornet, F-35 they go F-5A/B, F-5E/F, F-20A/B, JAS39E/F with T-38 and then specialised trainer versions of the F-20 and Gripen instead of the Macchi and Hawk.  All locally produced and including export licences for the Asia Pacific region, (mostly real world F-5 operators but especially NZ).

My thinking is the Northrops would be the low end of a high / low fighter mix equipping 2/3 to 3/5 of the regular RAAF fighter squadrons as well as most of the (still flying) RAAF reserve squadrons.  "Silver bullet" squadrons to counter specific threats or fill specific missions would be operated along side the general service Northrop force. i.e. EE Lightnings to defend point targets against Indonesian Tu16s (instead of the Bloodhound missiles actually bought), later re-engined with F-404 in place of Avon to standardise engines when the F-20 was selected .

I would also have a similar high / low mix with the Attack / Strike / Bomber force but that's getting a bit far off this topic.

[ChernayaAkula]

F-5E Tiger with trapezoidal wings, butterfly tail and diverterless inlet
I don't know what it is exactly (just went for the looks, really). Maybe a YF-23 proof-of-concept vehicle? Maybe Iran's next evolution of the Tiger? 
I suppose you could also start with an F-20 instead of an F-5.

[GTX_Admin]

I like! :)

[Volkodav]

 :)
like very much expecially your F-20 Blackwidow lite suggestion.

[elmayerle]

Very nice, especially with the re-designed radome of the last couple F-20's that had a plan view similar to the "duckbill nose" of the later F-5E/F aircraft (comes from the same R&D work).  Perhaps a chine line from the top of the diverter-less inlet to the widest point on the radome?  Using a F404, or later upgrading to a F414, you could add an L-O exhaust nozzle, perhaps even a vectoring one.

[GTX_Admin]

Interesting footage of F-5 being tested in USSR:

Советский ,трофейный F-5 Tiger (USSR Trophy , F-5 Tiger II )

[Volkodav]

Are you implying that the MIG 28 is a rip off of the F-5, reverse engineered from captured South Vietnamese examples?

[mrvr6]

Are you implying that the MIG 28 is a rip off of the F-5, reverse engineered from captured South Vietnamese examples?

well it does have stroking similarities

[GTX_Admin]

Would I say that...

But speaking of, look what AFV Club have announced as a future release:

[Gingie]

Got all excited when Luckymodel had a Hassy restock which included the X-29 and F-20 for about $8 each. Both now sold out.

[Volkodav]

I just watched a doco on the F-5 and was astounded by its rough field performance, there was footage of F-5As and Bs taking off and landing on fields that would have seen a P-40 or Spitfire nose over and lunch their props. They even showed some of it in slow motion where you can see the landing gear absorbing the dips and bumps, no wonder the US Army wanted them.  I had no idea about their ease of maintenance, or that ALL of their support and test equipment was ruggedized and easily portable.  Scherger was spot on in his recommendation that the NF-156 was suitable for the RAAF, specifically with local manufacture and regional export in mind.

I imagine replacing their 20mm cannon with 30mm ADENs wouldn't be a goer but who cares, forget the Wiff side of things, the F-5 should have been selected for the RAAF, it would have been absolutely superb.