Beyond The Sprues

Modelling => Completed GBs => Group and Themed Builds => Extended Service Life and/or Back dated GB => Topic started by: Tophe on April 26, 2015, 02:16:48 AM

Title: Mustang Mach2 and other secrets
Post by: Tophe on April 26, 2015, 02:16:48 AM

With the high rate of prototype crashes, in France 1950s, the French government decided to use old airframes in all new prototypes (with a life expectation of 1 flight). So the first Mach2 French fighter was not a Mirage but a transformed Mustang called M-51D.
And the generals were so innocent, the Dassault company succeeded in selling a M-51Z, with the "promess" of reaching Mach4 for sure because 2 times 2=4... (cancelled before crash):
(http://www.kristofmeunier.fr/r_P82-51C_bw.JPG)
 :icon_fsm: :icon_alabanza: :icon_swat: :icon_music: :icon_ninja: :) ;) :D >:( 8)

Title: Re: Mustang Mach2 and other secrets
Post by: Tophe on April 26, 2015, 02:54:56 AM

There was some competition though: the Nord-Aviation sellers came and told the generals "hey, this is impossible, look: HOW can you reach Mach 2 with 1 jet???!!!, so you need 2 jets on our M-38 Lightnijet, and if you need Mach4 performance: M-38Z Double-Lightnijet with 4 jets, this is logics!". Alas they got no contract, because the Dassault sellers explained Nord-Aviation was secretly communist, was the enemy...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v670/Tophe2712/2015/r_P38eclairK_aep_zps4kxl4f1g.jpg)

Title: Re: Mustang Mach2 and other secrets
Post by: Tophe on April 26, 2015, 01:56:38 PM

The Nord-Aviation sellers tried another way: "Yes, general, you are right: no need to sacrify the life of 2 test-pilots to reach Mach4, the M38Z2 do the same while killing a single pilot! Congratulations for you if you order it: sign here!"
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v670/Tophe2712/2015/r_P38eclairK_aeq_zpscrab5uja.jpg)

Title: Re: Mustang Mach2 and other secrets
Post by: Tophe on April 26, 2015, 04:37:02 PM

Dassault answered to the M-38Z2 proposal by a M-51H Hustlirage (and the M-51HZ for reaching Mach 8 ). They remained dreams, because too expensive probably...
(http://www.kristofmeunier.fr/r_P82-51C_bx.JPG)

Title: Re: Mustang Mach2 and other secrets
Post by: Tophe on April 28, 2015, 12:35:25 PM

The hypersonic rocket RF-51B/D and RF-82E came before (with USAF & NACA) but they were completely secret, with mysterious "transparent propeller blades" bringing no drag at all...:
(http://www.kristofmeunier.fr/r_P82-51C_by.JPG)

Title: Re: Mustang Mach2 and other secrets
Post by: Tophe on May 02, 2015, 01:14:55 PM

In the US, 1949, there were thousands of outdated P-51D "available" (replaced by P-51H in service), and before they were destroyed, a plan was considered, to transform them as VTOL P-51V:
(http://www.kristofmeunier.fr/r_P82-51C_ca.JPG)

Title: Re: Mustang Mach2 and other secrets
Post by: Tophe on May 02, 2015, 01:37:54 PM

For stability in the vertical move, the P-51V was transformed in 1951 into the tandem-wing 5-engined P-51V²:
(http://www.kristofmeunier.fr/r_P82-51C_cb.JPG)
(very short range, but very high speed and VTOL-feature!)

Title: Re: Mustang Mach2 and other secrets
Post by: Tophe on May 02, 2015, 04:32:56 PM

The Mustangs ordered in 1936 (red), the Lightnings ordered in 1945 (blue)... simply using the fashion/technology of each time...:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v670/Tophe2712/r_P38eclairL_aak_zpst7ph19ut.jpg)

Title: Re: Mustang Mach2 and other secrets
Post by: Tophe on May 02, 2015, 07:12:36 PM

Quote from: Tophe on May 02, 2015, 04:32:56 PM

The Mustangs ordered in 1936 (red), the Lightnings ordered in 1945 (blue)... simply using the fashion/technology of each time...:

The same for the Mustang 1935 (biplane) and Lightning 1946 (with motorjets):
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v670/Tophe2712/2015/r_P38eclairL_aal_zpsreopwru0.jpg)

Title: Re: Mustang Mach2 and other secrets
Post by: Tophe on May 03, 2015, 10:40:36 PM

X-38A, B, C: P-38 converted in 1947 to challenge the sound barrier... (no need of jets, US scientists said)
(http://www.kristofmeunier.fr/r_P38eclairL_aaq.JPG)

Title: Re: Mustang Mach2 and other secrets
Post by: Tophe on May 17, 2015, 01:49:18 AM

The Lightninginer was a Mach2 airliner, designed in 1946, using parts of the classical P-38:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v670/Tophe2712/2015/r_P38eclairL_abu_zpsv6y6x4ec.jpg)
(broken against the sound barrier, alas)

Title: Re: Mustang Mach2 and other secrets
Post by: Tophe on May 17, 2015, 01:08:29 PM

Do you think there is no relation between Lightning and Lightninginer? See the missing links (that remained on the drawing board):
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v670/Tophe2712/2015/r_P38eclairL_abv_zpsqeyjgxua.jpg)

Title: Re: Mustang Mach2 and other secrets
Post by: Tophe on May 17, 2015, 03:30:51 PM

Ups, there was an order mistake for the port rear propeller... ??? :(
Here is, corrected, the triplex:
(http://www.kristofmeunier.fr/r_P38eclairL_abw.jpg)

Title: Re: Mustang Mach2 and other secrets
Post by: CiTrus90 on May 18, 2015, 01:38:41 AM

Ooooh, now i can see what a supersonic P-38 may have looked like!!

And i like it :-*

Title: Re: Mustang Mach2 and other secrets
Post by: Tophe on May 20, 2015, 12:24:45 AM

Thanks a lot!
And the next one was the hypersonic Lightninginer H (reaching Mach 5 in stratospher):
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v670/Tophe2712/2015/r_P38eclairL_aca_zpsfi3k12sd.jpg)
(alas broken against the heat barrier ??? )

Title: Re: Mustang Mach2 and other secrets
Post by: apophenia on May 24, 2015, 09:52:47 AM

Great stuff Tophe! The VTOL P-51V² is my personal favorite  :)

Title: Re: Mustang Mach2 and other secrets
Post by: Tophe on May 24, 2015, 02:30:27 PM

Thanks a lot, Apophenia!

Quote from: Tophe on May 02, 2015, 01:37:54 PM

For stability in the vertical move, the P-51V was transformed in 1951 into the tandem-wing 5-engined P-51V²:
(very short range, but very high speed and VTOL-feature!)

In 1952, technology was completely in the jet age, so the P-51V² became P-51W (a VTOL that was alas cancelled because burning the landing place/ship): ??? :(
(http://www.kristofmeunier.fr/r_P82-51C_cw.jpg)

Title: Re: Mustang Mach2 and other secrets
Post by: Tophe on May 24, 2015, 04:04:45 PM

In 1953 came the P-51X with old 51D airframes: not VTOL but transsonic with 4 big jets:
(http://www.kristofmeunier.fr/r_P82-51C_cy.jpg)

Title: Re: Mustang Mach2 and other secrets
Post by: Tophe on May 27, 2015, 02:29:33 AM

In 1954, the P-51Y was supersonic with its shorter wing:
(http://www.kristofmeunier.fr/r_P82-51C2_cz.jpg)

Title: Re: Mustang Mach2 and other secrets
Post by: Tophe on May 30, 2015, 05:57:56 PM

Before the Sabre was chosen and built, the project was transforming 10,000 P-51D into P-51TJ Twin-jet Stang:
(http://www.kristofmeunier.fr/r_P82-51C2_da.jpg)